Has feminism turned women into wage-slaves?

keep it quiet. we could be on to a good thing..

BritExpat and dont forget the Brats that come as part of the parcel..? Screaming yelling kids in the back seat..

O yes thats where the maids come in...:)

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"HE WHO DARES WINS"

Derek Edward Trotter

I would love to be a kept man :O)

Coffee mornings, golf, sauna, massage

What more can one ask for..

I only have met two house husbands in Qatar both Western Expat, One an American and one a Canadian...

So these guys are enjoying their roles and playing happy daddy, driving their kids in big 4x4 to school, enjoy coffee at Columbus Cafe after shopping at Carrefour. O only If I could join them.. AAAAAh

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"HE WHO DARES WINS"

Derek Edward Trotter

Very Funny Brit!

"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.

Will someone please get me out of this well. I tried to call my wife, but she's busy at work :O(

I just cant believe this thread! Have any of u ever considered that women may actually like to work? That some women may not really like taking care of kids? or even having them? I think all the men on this thread shud go jump in a well and stay there! Gosh!

"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.

Olive, That is exactly what I was trying to point out. Silver appliances taking over the kitchen, have forced the women out of the kitchen into the office?..lol !

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"HE WHO DARES WINS"

Derek Edward Trotter

Not true Uk. Mine are all in silver. ;)

Why do women marry in white?

Coz all kitchen appliances come in white!

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"HE WHO DARES WINS"

Derek Edward Trotter

Amen Nadt!!

And Brit I have no lack of maternal instinct, but I also have no desire to join the QL Mum's group. Sorry but I need more in my life then diapers and drool.

nadt I believe in what you're saying, good talk.

nadt...wow, you said it all :)

...listen to the sound of silence....

I get sick of this topics about "women". We are always analysing what women should wear(niqab or not), how they should behave,(mind you most of the opinions are by men) whether they should go back to work or not and the funny thing is that we dont focus on men, the roles they play in their families, or what they should or shouldnt wear. Its always the women who are in the firing line. I say this, leave the women alone and let them decide what they want to do and stop judging them with the choices they make. if men think that a womans place is at home because its better for the kids, and she doesnt, fine,why dont you as the father quit your job and look after them(remember they are your kids too). If a woman wants to stay at home and raise her kids and can afford to do that, good for her, just stop making working mothers feel guilty for doing this. Its bad enough men are always judging women, lets not judge each other too and just support each other in the coices we make.

What happened to your maternal instincts? Enjoy the brats. Join the QL Mum's group.. The world is your oyster.

Ram women are not as good as men in offices???? I think you are the one with narrow minded approach there.

Sure they do, but why does in always have to come from the woman? Why is her career the expendable one? In many more traditional societies it's the grand parents that raise the children while both of the parents hunt and work the fields. Perhaps that's the more "ideal" life.

"I think I'd shoot myself in ...

I think I'd shoot myself in the head if I had to stay home and take care of kids all day. Where's the intellectual stimulation in teletubbies?"

Children can pide stimulation. In addition, children need full time support.

OmiGod! Seriously, call the news, I've just discovered a Neanderthal!

I'm not in the stone age .. it's u who r having serious problem of flipping over the universe ..

and yes woman can't be as productive at work as a man.

You know why?? it's just bcuz u r having a very narrow mind to see work as JUST the office work while the reality it's not like that. and the facts also says that 4 to 6 women needed to carry a heavy thing that 2 (TWO) men can carry. Even though, with your narrow point of view i don't think that a woman can still perform like a man in an office with her monthly friend in which i assume that it puts them i a terrible PAIN & MODE in which also i do know that it might take from 3 to 10 days. Which means almost a quarter or a one third of a month. Therefore, even in offices I do believe that they can't perform as well as a man can do.

Moreover, the brain of a man and woman are different. One of the most interesting differences appear in the way men and women estimate time, judge speed of things, carry out mental mathematical calculations, orient in space and visualize objects in three dimensions, etc. In all these tasks, women and men are strikingly different, as they are too in the way their brains process language. This may account, scientists say, for the fact that there are many more male mathematicians, airplane pilots, bush guides, mechanical engineers, architects and race car drivers than female ones.

and Men, They can raise a family just like a woman can go to work but they won't be as good as a woman..

On the other hand, women are better than men in human relations, recognizing emotional overtones in others and in language, emotional and artistic expressiveness, esthetic appreciation, verbal language and carrying out detailed and pre-planned tasks. For example, women generally can recall lists of words or paragraphs of text better than men.

I guess that my point is very clear .. if u can't get it ..

then it might be either i don't have a good way to explain it OR you have a narrow mind to accept it.

I'm out of here ..

and yeah, one more thing ... my wife is veeeeeeeery happy with me and she is really thanking me to manage the home on my own so that she can get time to take care of the house, me and our son.

anyway, no wonder this is ur opinion u r still young .. life still will teach u a lot.

yeah brit!!! then what will they do?!?!?

ohhh , the vegetables market will peak like hell ;)

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

Ummjake's argument re-enforces my belief that all sex toys should be banned..

Duties? Says who? And I know lots of stay at home moms who aren't happy and lots of Dad's who aren't good at work. Look outside the narrow confines of your upbringing and learn that BOTH genders are equally capable of the role of parent and provider.

a man will perform better if he is at work

and a woman would perform better if she is at home...these are the actuall duties to lead a happy & succesful life

ROFLING. "But a man will perform better if he is at work

and a woman would perform better if she is at home

both can be exchanged position but there will be less production that might lead to loss and bankruptcy of the company .."

So women can't be as productive at work as a man? And men can't raise a family?

You seriously need to get OUT of the stone age. Hope your wife enjoys being barefoot and pregnant.

we are not trying to put u back in the "BOX". Women should understand that no one is better than the other .. we are both equal.

I would love to stay at home and take care of my child and my wife will be the one working (2 shifts even if she wants to)

But i wonder why "GOD" did not create boobies for me full of milk so that i can breast feed my child? I wonder also why i don't have a womb to carry the baby instead of my wife for 9 months?

I wonder why God has give the man stronger physical body than a woman? to stay at home?? and do the home works?? (What a wise God).

There is something called the universe rules .. the universe rules are the one putting a man at work and woman at home ..

Even though, the reality is woman can perform at work too and women have proved it very well as the work now doesn't need the strong muscles of the man as it used to be in the old days.

I'm not against the woman to work and build their own career, if they can take care of their home as well .. and what i meant when i said "Allow my wife to work only one shift" is the home will be another shift for her .. if she have a 2 shift job either the home will be a 3rd shift (which will be more difficult to her) or she will neglect the 3rd shift which is consider to be her 1st priority..

When i said so, i wanted the comfort for my wife. When i want her to be at home i didn't mean that she has to be just in a box .. but to be a princess with hassle free and let me do that job and earn money for our family .. she is doing her job at home and i do my job at work .. and this is how the universe work ..

The universe are built on the sharing (and equality) of 2 or more persons/side.

I can't fire all the employees in my company and say "Hello, i'm much stronger i can do it all by myself"

there must be a owner, manager, head section, employee staff, office boys and labors .. every one is equal cuz each has a job and has talent in his place .. i'm not going to ask the employee to be a labor cuz he is capable of doing that.

it's a company and every one should be in his place .. for more and better production ..

the family life is the same, it's a company and has to be shared with both husband and wife .. each has a role not less important than the other spouse ..

But a man will perform better if he is at work

and a woman would perform better if she is at home

both can be exchanged position but there will be less production that might lead to loss and bankruptcy of the company ..

hope u get my point

well im a boy for now ;)

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

such a shame you mean you are still not a MAN :/

ummjake , you need a man as much as i need a woman...i can handle myself as well ,i don't need anyone as well and this is also a great achievment...but can we deny , that life without a partner will always be lacking something?!?!

can we deny that we can't achieve our purpose in life without a partner ??? can we deny that we can't reach full potentials without one?!?!?

so yes i don't need a woman to complete me either...i need a woman to make me!!!

cause without a woman i can't be fully MAN

and you without a man cannot be fully WOMAN

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

Good point.

now give me your husband telephone number so i can tell him

I certainly like men, and I have at times wanted them in my life. But I have never NEEDED one. Is that not enough? Personally, I think it a higher compliment to not need someone (out of obligation or necessity) but to invite them into your life because you actually desire their presence.

I certainly don't need a man to take care of me. I can do that fine on my own, thank you. I choose men for their character, their intellect, and many other things that they can bring to me and my life (companionship, humor, etc.)...but thank God I don't NEED a man to complete me or my life.

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

each have his own religion,culture,opinion...im not saying that it's a perfect world... im just telling you that the transaction allready happened , it's only a matter of time until it spreads all over the globe...

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

If we're so out sir dolly, why do you have men like Ram saying that they'll only ALLOW they're wife to work one shift, or not at all. Doesn't seem very out of the box to me.

very well, you're right olive , you need men to protect you from rapers ... so we should categorize rapers as "animals" ... ;) ... and yes i agree that for centuries and in many places till now , you have been treated as inferior to us...so if you're talking about those days , and those places then your totally right...but im talking about the modern world where we need to be together as one...and yet we need to admit our differences...we need to share our powers...so that we'll be able to survive and make a family...so stop talking to me from that box!!! i can barely hear you!!!

you know you're allready out , it's obvious to everyone , so why ur still saying the opposite!!!???

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

Protection from what??? The only thing women need protection from is men! You're the one's who rape, attack and harass us! So we don't need your protection, we need you to behave yourselves!

And men did put us in a box, for centuries we were only allowed to be wives and mothers and nothing else, now that we've gotten out of the box you're telling us to go back in!

ofcourse not mine...but you need another men , some men's protection!!!

you sound like the black people in USA , always blaming "white" guys for their misfortune....you're doing the same olive , your blaming men and saying that they put you in the box....where you should accept it and know that you're equal to us..and without you, men worth nothing!!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

I don't need your protection. And MEN put us in the box, not nature.

"MENISIM"...

anyways , girls , one of the things you need from us men is "protection" ...so this sums it up!!! whatever you do , wherever you go , lesbians or straights...presidents or housemaids...you will always need our protection...so no , we don't put you in a box "quote", to feel better...nature put you there!!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

Good explanation einstind. :) Guess they need to keep us in our little box to make themselves feel better.

Men cannot handle pressure and they are always dependent on us(wife or mom or....).We do a better job than men at work/home.We are strong enough (hear weaker sex is strong here)to work at office and come back to perform our duties(??) at home.Men are weak you see.

two thumbs-up Ram.

Why is it we women have to stay home with the kids? Why aren't people saying men should? I'd divorce my husband in a second if he told me I couldn't work or could only work one shift.

in fact the issue is kinda complicated ..

I would like to clap hands for "UMMJake" about wut she mentioned that if the man is gone the wife is in trouble ..

cuz she didn't have a job for a long time ..

I'm with those who said that "A woman is better to stay at home and take care of the kids rather than going out to work"

for me, i don't want my wife to work .. in fact i can see that her work at home is much more tougher than getting a work .. so i can't add to her another shift as if she is working 3 shifts a day .. i have experienced it when she just gave birth and i told her how hero she was to be pregnant and do all the house work ..

BUT, on the other hand i wanted her to have a job .. not bcuz i can't support the home .. thank god my salary is just enough for us though we don't have any savings .. but still i can manage to run the home .. of course with the usual support of my wife that she doesn't add more financial burdens on me .. just like some other wives do .. and she always understand our financial status and go n our budget ..

And also, it's not bcuz one day i might leave her or do like some other men do ..

But, i'm thinking if i'm gone in another way .. I'm asking my self these questions:

1- what if i went to work and never been back??

2- what if i had an accident and i passed away??

3- How she will manage to take care of the home after me?

4- how can she support herself and the child and she doesn't have any source of income? and of course no Savings too?

and that's why i'm thinking that it might be better for her to have a job .. but again .. How ??? who gonna take care of the kids??

shall i hire a nanny?? in fact i won't trust them with my child?

we will lose the family unity between us ..

The only solution i have found to that is :

1- Let her take care of our child until he goes to the school

2- when he start going to school, she can find a job (only ONE shift)

3- hiring a maid (or can be just part time maid) just to help in the home works (cleaning / cooking / ironing) would be much better than hiring a nanny so that ur wife can take care of her child too

4- The husband, even though u r tired try to help ur wife in home works and taking care of ur OWN child..

I bet if ur boss asked u for an overtime u won't be saying no .. so how about ur OWN Family ..

I'm not saying i'm perfect or i can do all of these .. but little help sometimes will really be very helpful .. and these are just some ideas on how to manage ur home so that ur wife will be working too and still both of u can take care of ur child(s) at least i won't be afraid to die cuz i know that my wife is working and she still can manage to take care of our child ..

no your totally right...but if a wife is not trusting him from the fist day , that would surely send him to another woman's arms...

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

Do u think all the cheating husbands have a suspicious wife or wife who sends such "vibes"???

I am pretty sure that every(mostly??) cheater/betrayer has someone who has trusted him and has no idea of his "honorable" activities.

it depends on the man you've chosen !!!

if he's "bad" , yes these things might occur..

if he's "good" , he'll be a good husband and a great lover to the end of his life!!!

but if from the beginning , your sending the vibes to your husband , that you can never totally rely on him...other words you can never trust him...you'll be putting him on the road to destruct his marriage...you should know ummjake by now that trust is the most important thing in any relation...so by starting by not relying on ur husband..your marriage/life/work will be doomed!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

a man to take care of me. I wouldn't trust that he would not at some future point up and leave me/the kids. I've seen it happen far too many times to friends and acquaintances...and then the woman is basically screwed because then she has no work history to go out and get a job when she has to take care of herself and her family (meanwhile her husband has usually taken up with a newer, younger woman...and he's living large).

And unfortunately, it's not uncommon for men to not pay (enough) child support, and then the woman is left trying to take care of her family all on her own.

If a household can afford a nanny/housekeeper, more power to them. But like most of you, I, too, get irked when I see a mother who isn't working outside the house yet she still has little quality interaction with her kids, who are basically being raised by the nanny.

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

hehehhe , you have to admit it ..it's funny!!!

and why u can throw jokes on us men , and we cannot?!?!

infact nowadays , there should be "menism" !!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

be sure you're kidding sir dolly :(

...listen to the sound of silence....

why do women have smaller shoe size?!?!?

to be as close as possible to the kitchen sink..heheheh kidding eh!!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

I think I'd shoot myself in the head if I had to stay home and take care of kids all day. Where's the intellectual stimulation in teletubbies?

women of today must develop their career with this global crisis.that will benefit the whole family in terms of security and financial matters.

N A T U R A L rules..

anything else will lead to an endless loop.

hence, i believe as Fay Weldon suggests, feminism has caused change.

(do note im not being controversial, women do have rights ofcourse, but sometimes things get stretched out a little over the years)

Aim for the stars..

Reach the roof

blessed both men and women thier duties....but today things are found different...You find women working out side the house & in the evening men in the kitchen...Well if these are happening due to necessities it doesn't matter but for the reason of prestige or career then its wrong...

May be a woman wants to work she can look for a part time job to fufill her hobby as well as get enough time for her family...

Keeping a maid as a helping hand is fine but making maids your children's second mother or parent is like building a gap between your own blood which you will realise as time grows.

Its better we always follow the natural rules made by God for we Humans.

http://yadiin.blogspot.com/

I do not know why you think that women did not use to work in the past . Both of my grandma used to work . And I am proud of them .

I was sent to nursery very early in the morning still I remember my childhood as a happy one .

We were not served at home many times -that true - but we knew how to solve problems we had a lots of practical knowledge .

True, sometimes I wished my mother had worked only in the mornings - and we could be together every afternoon and evenings .

But if you think about the issue : if women stay at home then there will not need to educate them . What for? They will just stay at home ..

The happiness of the bygone era was false many times . There were women without income who did not have other choice than pretending happiness .

We should fight for more rights for working women . To force employers to be family friendly .. This is the direction where we should go if we think seriously about the future ..

to women entering the workforce.It has got nothing to do with equality or feminism or whatsoever.(Pardon my english as it is not my first lang).

1) When a woman goes out to work she gets upgraded about the latest happenings and the trend.This helps her children and hubby too.She will not be a frog in the well.

2) The women who go out for work get tremendous confidence and to an extent stops nagging the hubby for everything.

3) Last but not the least , she gets the security.Even if her man runs away from her, she still has the job to feed herself and the kid.It is not so easy to get a job all of a sudden.

flan and jack your killing me hehehehe

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

"A maid is not there to bring up the children, a maid is there to clean the house." So true, Alexa. Shame the ladies-who-lunch in Doha don't see it that way.

Did you add extra links to her chain again flan. shame on you flan

Rules are a guideline for intelligent people, but they must be adhered to by idiots.

Fair point Alexa, it's just infuriating to see parents sitting at a separate table to the children & nanny/maid in restaurants. If you're willing to take the children out with you, at least have the decency to look after the them.

*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****

I can only assume that there are men out there who know that their wives are too stupid or lazy or inept or whatever to leave them at home to be solely responsible for raising the kids, and that's why they employ a nanny.

Any wonder there are lots of little Arabic kids who speak broken Hindi or Tagalog and almost no Arabic!

My mother worked, raised 3 kids. Never kept a maid, All turned out fine except me ;)

Aupairs and nannies have long been the favourites of the upper middle classes in Eureope and USA..

I agree with you Fubar! Women who don't work should take responsibility for their own children. It infuriates me when I see those women in the mall or in the restaurants. Unless you work, you shouldn't need a maid.

*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****

whilst i prefer my women bare foot and pregnant, i also don't mind one that brings home the bacon.

That's true Brit. But it's the women who aren't in the workforce, yet who still hire and rely on nannies for their children, that really give me the sh1ts.

They are the women you see in the malls with their nannies following behind them, taking care of the kids. They are the women who send their kids off to school with drivers. They are the women who want kids (or family, or whatever) but don't want the hassle of bathing them, feeding them, helping them with their homework, or pretty much anything else that would interupt their social lives.

but certainly not to all. But I don't agree with Jackfrost comment that the maids is in charge of the cleaning. If the wife is truly for home, she will be a good housekkeper and she don't need a maid. But again, if one can afford to have a maid, why not?

"I'm back, simple as that"

If women are in the workforce, then children will be looked after by nannies/maids etc.

I'd rather see women in the workforce than see nannies raising children while the mother watches from a distance.

I find it heartbreaking to see mom and dad sitting in restaurants having dinner together while forcing their young children to go and eat at a seperate table with the nanny. These women treat their children like pets - objects to play with around the home, not young people who deserve their undivided attention.

“The downside of feminism is that women are now expected to go out to work, which some women would rather do than looking after the children anyway.”

The key point is that women are now "expected" to be wage earners. Thus taking the onus from the men.

A womens place is to look and teach the children, not go out to work, she wil miss all the first things that the child will learn. I would never alow my wife towork while the children are at home.. her place is the children. the maid cleans the house and looks after that stuff

Rules are a guideline for intelligent people, but they must be adhered to by idiots.

And for the ones who don't bother about material things, that would be irrelevant. Only problem is the partner might be materialistic so that puts a spanner in the works!

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The Cookie Monster said it.

In many cases , the need for material things in life has meant that both partners have to work.

britexpat said eaglemmanuel.has feminism succeeded or led to the breakdown of the family unit?"

Feminism has its strengths. It has paved the way for women to be accepted in the workforce, etc. But there are always pros and cons to any situation.

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The Cookie Monster said it.

verisimilitude said dunno bout feminism and stuff... ...

but i know that a house that has someone paying full attention to cleanliness, diet and the children is a better and happier house than one that is run by the same person after taking up responsibilities other than those within the house...I know it sounds old fashioned and narrow-minded to some when actually its just common sense..."

Agreed. If I ever get married, I'd like to work only part time or work from a home office. With internet communications, can actually get things done quite efficiently.

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The Cookie Monster said it.

According to me,its just a greedyness to become more wealthy and to be feel proud women works,but they were not thinking that they are loosing family life..and thats true. :)

I don't believe there are many women out there who would rather go to work than be at home with their little angels. Unfortunately, it is a necessity nowadays for women to go to work. I am extremely grateful that I can stay at home with my son, but I would have no qualms in going back to work to keep the roof over my son's head.

*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****

my wife works because our family needs her job, she never actually complains, she's brilliant at her job, she loves it so much, but when i see the look in her eyes when she's back home hugging and kissing the kids, i know she'd rather stay home.

Yalla!

"Feminism is actually anti-female"

BRAVO maimouna

Yalla!

...if only we can have the simplicity of life before...then i will not be going out at odd hours, but just stay home with my kids. prepares my would-be husband's clothes for the day and makes sure that the socks are the same, or the tie complements the suit...sees them off with hugs and kisses and awaits their return with warmth.

...listen to the sound of silence....

A full-time working woman should not take care of the home. But the modern women is expected to be SUPER LADY! Feminism is actually anti-female.

NUCLEAR ENERGY: IF AMERICA AND ISRAEL CAN HAVE THEM - THEN SO SHOULD IRAN.

IGNORE JACKFROST

"Recession is when your neighbour loses their job; depression is when you lose your job."

In most cases, in this day and age, it is the definition of "énough" that matters...

________________________________________

One life to live, live it to the fullest.

You are correct. However, there are numerous women who feel that they must do this in order to show equality to men.

but i know that a house that has someone paying full attention to cleanliness, diet and the children is a better and happier house than one that is run by the same person after taking up responsibilities other than those within the house...

I know it sounds old fashioned and narrow-minded to some when actually its just common sense... like my wife said once... "maybe it sounds so offensive cos its the bitter truth"

of course all this is assuming that there is another member of the household earning enough to sustain it...

Has feminism succeeded or led to the breakdown of the family unit ?

Nope.