French Veil Ban Takes Effect, Women Protest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b30BIeptr3Y&feature=player_embedded
By AFP
VERSAILLES (AFP) - French police fined a woman for wearing a full-face Islamic veil, the first reported enforcement of a ban on the garment on the day it came into effect, a police source said Tuesday.
The young woman, born in 1983, was fined 150 euros (216 dollars) "without incident" in a shopping centre in Mureaux, northwest of Paris, early Monday evening, the source said, without elaborating on exactly what she was wearing.
France on Monday became the first country in Europe to apply a ban on the wearing of full-face coverings, including the Islamic niqab. At least two niqab-wearing women were arrested the same day for protesting the ban.
French police have voiced fears the law will be impossible to enforce, since they have not been empowered to use force to remove head coverings, and could face resistance in already tense immigrant districts.
But Interior Minister Claude Gueant insisted on Monday that the ban would be fully applied, in the name of "secularism and equality between men and women... two principles upon which we can not compromise."
"The police and the gendarmerie are there to apply the law and they will apply the law," he said.
The law came into effect at an already fraught moment in relations between the state and France's Muslim minority, with Sarkozy accused of stigmatising Islam to win back votes from a resurgent far right.
French officials estimate that only around 2,000 women, from a total Muslim population estimated at between four and six million, wear the full-face veils that are traditional in parts of the Arab world and South Asia.
Many Muslims and rights activists say the right-wing president is targeting one of France's most vulnerable groups to signal to anti-immigration voters that he shares their fear that Islam is a threat to French culture.
Thanks Brother Britexpat, at least you did understood my point of view.
Saw an article in the GT today describing websites where people were suggesting attacks on France.
I agree with you - we all have to and should obey the law of the land we reside in.
We may not like the law and it may even go against our religious and moral ethics - but tough really.
I do not like some of the 'laws' in the UK - will I break them; not on your nelly!
I do not like some of the 'laws' here in Qatar - will I obey the law - course I will.
The law is law!
Never
You obviously haven't been to Spain or Greece then?
thank U adey, never knew that Bikini is a fashion to wear around malls ;)
"would this even apply to the tourists?"
s_isale
Think of it like this:
A tourist comes to Doha, are they allowed to
a)Wear a bikini around City centre?
b)Drink alcohol in the street
c)Exhibit PDA's in public
d)as a male, wander freely around a womens hairdressers?
e)Swear at the driver who has just cut him off
f)Smoke in a smoke free zone
or
g) None of the above
It matters not whether one is a tourist or not, the law of the land is the law of the land.
I think it is clear that Islam says that one must obey the laws of the land one lives in...
Having said that, in all societies there are people who will break the law, or make a stand against a law they feel is unjust.
yOU KNOW IS REAL PATHETIC when someone states that "the KORAN SAYS" and what ever it is, mostly is been used to coherse negatism.
I want to know, what The Koran has to said: About obeying the law of the land you live on?
would this even apply to the tourists?
Chanted that many a time - oh the good old days :-)
Scrabble - now you are on!
You have to come and have a game with me and him - if you like bloody noses and split lips you are in (joke). We love scrabble here.
It does get dirty though - must warn you. We play by the rules!
(pstttttttttttt - he thinks I play by the rules, but I don't - he can't remember the number of times I go the lappy (oops I meant the loo) and google scrabble.com) lol x
We do have many people from all over the world - they work hard and add to the dynamic that is the UK :-)
We all have a street that is the wrong side of town - Brit will back me up on this - Church Street, Preston - best avoided lol
Yet - as named; was the Street with the most number of Churches on it at one time lol
... need to take a rest and sleep.... must be physically and mentally healthy to work each day :))) GOODNIGHT :) my first day in QL.... like it :P
Cabbage: Thank you. I'm looking forward Monopoly, not played in years, I did play scrabble just recently (hubby & I are very competitive) - great fun!
Thank you Brit & Alter Dusty :-)
perhaps France was just too eager to make an intervention after what had happened..... they thought,, it would work out peacefully,, not weighing matters accordingly.... but stiLL,, things happened... the best thing now to do for those who are in France... is to stay and follow the rules.... or leave,, bringing yourself... your religion and your culture with you..... :)
There is an awful lot wrong in the UK - we don't have a good reputation at all with some things.
What they/we - are/is good at, is tolerance - go into any town or city in the UK and you will have a fantastic mix; people from all over the world - different religions- different cultures and in the main it works.
I was once a stranger on UK soil and most made me very welcome :-)
Yes, few of them must be respected and rest of all even if U don't like them.
Actually, France has more Muslims than the UK..
You still up for the chicken dinner and monoply thing?
Ignore this person love - not worth it.
Likes your balanced comments on this subject :-)
:PP whats with the bra guys that you can't get over it??? a friendly question: haven't you touch or hold a bra in your entire life??? :'( so sad then if that's the case..... i pity you child :((
rakshas
i don't want to get ur words back fire on me, but give respect to ladies.
Saeedkan: lewd comments are unacceptable, to re-iterate you wouldn't like anyone to talk about your female family member's breasts. Your IP address can be obtained, your ISP can be contacted and I can pass these to the police. I have never expressed any interest in you, so would appreciate if you could do the same.
I think France over reacted and it is wrong.
Those are my thoughts.
I am glad to say - I doubt very much it will happen in the UK as we are I hope; seen as more tolerant :-)
It serves no purpose or does you no good to insult people, especially ladies.
Why not just participate in the discussion ..
Read the article and this lady makes a very good point.
If you remember in England there was a law passed to stop people wearing hoodies - they were seen as thugs - some were - most were not.
Shall we also ban backpacks?
As this lady says - we could pack a bomb anywhere - remember the shoe bomber? Yet to see a bra bomber - mind you as most of have a wrongly fitted bra no shock there lol
I think France has done a wrong thing here - the Lady's that cover there are not harmful and I think want to cover - perhaps it is to stop them getting a whiff of the garlic - unbrushed teeth and the lack of soap used in France. x
The government should not have enacted it as banned.. without consulting the Religious Sector...Both Politics and Religion should discuss this matter appropriately to avoid further feud.... We all know that this two are of different sides.... but through proper communication they could have resolve into better ideas that would not hurt any one of them.... As a law,, it is forcing one individual to follow whether he/she like it or not.... it is like taking a part of one's life especially for Muslims in that certain place....They should have think and made decisions wisely as possible as not stepping into one's culture....For one's Culture,, has been a part of our life... since before we were born...... :)
And therein lies the dillema...
Scholars are divided on whether Islam requires women to cover completely or not.
Also , as you rightly point out , many women wear the Niqab out of personal choice.
At the end of the day, the law has been passed and it applies to all.
The only way to change is to lobby and change democraticaly or via the courts..
By the way, please see the article attached. You might enjoy it :o)
http://technorati.com/politics/article/the-french-ban-on-niqab-and/
I agree with you - but we moan/complain about our rights to wear what we want - what about these women that are not forced to wear this - but do so out of choice?
It is a difficult one - Yesterday at Villagio Mall I saw two Western women who were dressed in really short, shorts, low tops with bra straps showing - tattoos on show - they looked really common and I was embarrassed to be a woman and a Western one at that - they are in a Muslim Country - show a little respect - same with the French situation - A Christian country so predominantly the Burka is not worn.
Have these two women got the right to wear those clothes over here - a Muslim country and have these Muslim lady’s got the right to wear the Burka in a Christian country?
rakshas/saeedkan: I won't judge you, I'll let Allah decide your fate! I hope nobody ever talks to your mother/sister/wife or daughter the way you have just spoke about me!
Every time someone complains about the laws in Qatar, you have every Tom, Dick & Harry banging on how this is Qatar and we should follow their rules. Doesn't the same apply to France?
is there something on QL "Like" ?
Was done for security reasons and as much as I dislike the French they have that right.
If I am correct there is nothing in Koran that says a woman has to wear this.
The only problem I see - IF the woman wants to wear it; where does that leave her?
Is she now destined to spend all her time inside?
A lot of the ladies that wear the Burka in France are French and that is their home - so they are stuck.
Perhaps - it is up to Muslim Scholars to now explain that the wearing of the Burka is not necessary and then perhaps this may eliminate from within and not by an enforced law.
Nazism Born again!!!
Only Target and Weapon differs.
The ban was on security reasons, NOT freligious ;o)
France is a nation not governed by any crazy religious fashion!
just because you are of X religion, it doesn't excempt you to be different from the rest of the french people.
The bottom line is : That You will obey the laws of the land.
If you don't like it, then pack your bags and leave for good!
Just Go SOMEWHERE, who will support your moronic religious behavior.
You are no different or special from the rest of the French People.
Indeed.
Interesting times ahead :o)
Come to think of it...seems to me that some of those affected do not neither see the others as equal, nor brothers or free...so.....there you have it.
Well brit, I am not French...and since that is the case, I do not think "french"....
All I can say is that I see that and similar action coming in many European countries....have said that for a long time. This is only the first step.
Just sit back and watch.
And such is the way in a democracy - BUT in what way do you think that "some are abusing those rights" ?
More importantly, how does this action fit in with the French Motto of "RUN" ...... sorry, couldn't resist that :o)
the French motto of : "La devise de la Republique est - Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité -."
See, here is the thing. Yes, France has an equal rights for everybody policy. From what I understand, they feel that some are abusing those rights. Therefore those rights will be adapted to suit the new situation. And , as it happens in a Democracy, those new rights are equal for everybody.
You make a valid point, and a great idea. I am willing to join you, but not sure how to present myself. please send me a picture of you in a Bikini (one size smaller if possible), so I can get the neccessary attire ..
thankyou in advance
did anyone hear about the banning of masks during a Masquerade Ball at the Ritz on New Years Eve?
Apparently, it was a security threat;-s
no full face helmet, no balaclava, no medical mask, no dust mask, no a single piece of fabric is allowed to cover the face!!!
but if these women can have their protest, I want mine :o)
Bea_7 you don't have that in this country sorry dear.
what about my bikini human rights in Qatar????
any ladies up for a little protest on Qatar Cultural Village beach against not being able to wear a bikini there????? It is about our freedom of choice, innit? hahaha
“This law puts France to shame – a country that prides itself on the human rights it claims to promote and protect, freedom of expression included.” - John Dalhuisen, Europe and Central Asia Programme Director at Amnesty International. 11 April 2011
ze french are ze good peoples, ah like a dounut they are.Sugar coated from ze outside and a big hollow from ze insdie.
this has been the culture of Muslims since then,,, but unfortunately... bad people are also using this strategy to commit their bad plans.... the good thing about this being ban is that bad people will stop using this strategy..the bad thing is... it is affecting Muslim culture..... 2 effects in one decision... bad and good... If you were the decision maker for this matter,,, what will you do???...... :(
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ There is no such thing as 'on the way out' as long as you are still doing something interesting and good; you're in the business because you're breathing."-Louis Armstrong
LOL. I didn't realize Quebec was under Sarkozy's influence Brit. Although I wouldn't put it past them to propose a similar law.
Frankly I don't see why anyone is surprised that it's the French who've done this. They're the French for crying out loud. The French care about nothing more than protecting FRENCH culture. They always have.
Here's an idea to reverse the law. Invade them. The Cheese eating surrender monkey's will cave like the Third Reich just waltzed across their borders again. :P
Muslim Girl takes her burka off on YouTube...
now now its not what you think.... basically to make a long video short, this woman now wears a medical face mask instead. Genius! :)
&feature=related
Martyr magnet,
There are rumours that Sarkozy wants to extend the ban to other territories under his influence - Quebec is one of those being mentioned :o(
It's funny that most of the criticism regarding this law isn't even coming from the French population, but people in other countries.
Ze Leow was voted for by ze people ...
Sacre Bleu ..
Halloween is American and cannot be allowed in ze France..
No rule without exception, baldrick.
Daft question, but what will they do at Halloween when everyone goes out wearing a mask?