Fitness First Accident 15.01.2010

First, my sincere condolences to the family and friends of the man who passed away. May God Bless them and comfort them.

There are a few subjects here:

1. Is a health club that you sign a contract with responsible for your health and activity abilities, or are you?

2. Is the health club responsible for training and keeping their staff certified in First Aid/CPR?

3. Is a person trained in CPR/First Aid responsible for helping someone/everyone who is injured or ill?

I am a Registered Nurse, a previous Fitness Instructor and a certified CPR Instructor and I have been working in the GCC for 10 years.

1. Most gyms contracts state that you accept responsibility for undertaking an exercise program and even suggest/require that you get clearance from your doctor if you are over a certain age or have any health problems. If you sign this contract then you agree to this. Check out your contract to see what it says because you signed it...I'll have to find mine first :-S

2. I don't know what Qatar's laws are regarding licensing personal trainers/fitness instructors/lifeguards and whether they require them to have up to date certification in CPR. (When I took my fitness instructor's training in Canada, we needed to show that we had an up to date CPR and First Aid card before we started the program). If it isn't the law in Qatar, then I would say that FF has an ethical responsibility to keep all their staff certified in First Aid and CPR (that's just my opinion).

2. It is my understanding that there is no Good Samaritan Law in the GCC (this law (in Canada) protects anyone who tries to help a sick or injured person to the best of their abilities. This does not apply to a nurse or doctor and their duties at work.

The bottom line is- if I give assistance to someone who is hurt or ill in Qatar and they die, the family could possibly blame me for not saving their loved one's life and this could mean prison or blood money for me. Some First Aiders might feel this is too much risk for them to take and others might help no matter what. Therefore, it is a personal decision if they choose to give assistance and it is not a legal requirement except for nurses and doctors at their place of work.

The only requirement for that if you choose to begin CPR-you cannot stop until someone else competent in CPR takes over, a medical doctor pronounces the patient dead or you physically cannot go on (exhaustion).

If I am at the gym, for sure I will help anyone who needs it :))))))

It was his day... There was NOTHING anybody could have done.

sorry to hear that

this is a very sad post to read...it's really an unfortunate event...may his soul rest in peace...and my deep condolences and prayers to the bereaved family...

"there are no mistakes...just lessons learned"

First of all any one who joins a health club should disclose any past medical condition, once disclosed they will be deemed to be high risk or low risk.If they are high risk they will be required to get a medical certificate.However people have been known to lie on the forms or get false doctors certs just to train in these clubs.

The truth is though that anyone who uses a gym facility will always do so at their own risk.Lots of other leisure related businesses use these types of disclaimers.Just try white river rafting or bunjee jumping and see what forms you have to sign!!!!

I am close to some of the staff and members at FF and the gentleman did in fact get immediate CPR assistance and paramedics were on the scene very quickly and even applied shocks to the patient, but they just could not bring him back. This happens all around the world everyday to even the expert doctors.

I think people should get all the facts straight and not just pass their opinions without having all their facts together.Fitness First is a well known international brand and I am confident they did what they had to at the time of the incident.

i dont know on which ground many of you think its not ok to help, or saying

"the culture in this country may find the AIDER responsible for the victim's situation."

just an excuse not to help.

blame the others

Irrespective of all the concerns, it is a normal procedure for MOI to conduct a thorough investigation of the circumstances leading to death for any person that happens outside Hospital (all cases other that doctors certify that the death was due to medical conditions). If an expact, the body can not be taken out of country with out a death certificate from MOI. MOI conduct an autopsy and investigation leading to the cause of death and this will be recorded in the death certificate. In this particular case, if a negligence was caused due to Gym, they will sure be prosecuted.

As far as CPR is considered, I still have the same opinion. It is not a requirement that a person shall be given CPR (other than humanitarian grounds). However the lack of awareness or fear of getting in to troubles prevents a qualified person to do that.

This is an unfortunate event and shall be a good lesson for Gym to motivate people to undergo medical examination prior to starting of any exercise program and not just getting the forms signed. I know the management of some one big club in the country and I am aware that authorities conduct regular inspection to ensure proper safety and hygienic conditions. In this respect Qatar is much ahead of most of other countries and we can witness that in food outlets and markets.

I do know this: I am to sign that particular form to attest that I have no history of any medical issues(the list is long) and that it is also stated that the gym goer has consulted with a physician for proper evaluation.

Usually than not, the gym staff and personnel would do a BMI and give you a programme to follow for weight loss or gain, body contioning/toning etc.

I agree with some of the comments above...though the gym and it's staff and personnel are equipped and trained to do CPR, the culture in this country may find the AIDER responsible for the victim's situation. THAT what makes everyone make second thoughts in helping the poor man.

But if it's not in Qatar, I'm sure everyone would have helped rescucitate the person. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

I might suggest that before the bereaved go home, they should consult and seek legal counsel if the establishment could be sued for GROSS NEGLIGENCE resulting to death.

IMO only....

but I am not an expert.just a simple view from a simple person who happen to be father and a husband.

you are right...different culture, different environment and different rules!

... But we must have a single and most common prospective. Whoever, whatever and wherever you are.

SAVE LIVES and PEACE...

Many times I heard this reminder, "never get involve (whether pure intention or natural reaction) in an accident as you don't know what will be the outcome of such help. “This is right”

… what I was trying to say is: if anyone has been trained in first-aid or CPR he might be a big help to that person. Those advices (what you said) will be appropriate for those people don’t have training in any kind of first aid. If a person who was inside of that establishment is trained as a first-aider and competent to performed what he/she knows then they must do something.

… well, you don’t need to remind me. advices comes from people working in the hospital or in the EMS! They are always right… For those who don’t know (CPR. First-aid)… then calling 999 is the best you can do. THIS IS A BIG HELP.

… you will help whatever the consequence is…??? GOD BLESS YOU (you are such an angle)

… now is a different situation. As I said it happen… and it will happen again.

...Example: if I am a trained and capable in giving first-aid. And if this happen in front of me and I didn’t do anything. My conscience will bother me for the rest of my life.

... shouting in the forum is one of the best thing we can do, to tell the world what was happening.

Note: during my ILS course, I have a few classmates who were there to be trained as first aider and they are from different health center and fitness center. I ask them, if they are willing to perform CPR or first aid in anyone in their premises? It’s a big YES. Then why in that place they do not have a single one? I was just asking.

Peace

of weight (in few occasions). Are you talking as an expert or as a tambay? With your intelligence, I doubt very much about your job title! Credibility in posting (in some instances) is sometimes reflective of the personality of the poster. And this i where sometimes many of the members becomes too anonymous that even their profile is questionable!

But don't get me wrong, I like your views, it's the normal view! But this is a different culture, different environment and different rules!

"I'm back, simple as that"

and here, depends on the mood of the police who will investigate. A legitimate help maybe viewed another way.

Different situation will made you think of what will be the proper reactions. Unless it is happening in front of you, all we can do is speculate. If this country honor "the good samaritan culture", well no question, even if you don't know cpr, the will to help is always instantaneous to most of us, but this is Qatar, as guests here, you have to balance everything in its culture however we feel that it's not fair. Now who decide what is fair and what is not are the authorities.

Many times I heard this reminder, "never get involve (whether pure intention or natural reaction) in an accident as you don't know what will be the outcome of such help. And mind you, most of these advices comes from people working in the hospital or in the EMS! But if you ask me personally and it happens in front of me, I'll help whatever the consequence is!

What I am conveying is, help (of this condition or situation) is in action, not in words, and definitely not in shouting in the forum!!

"I'm back, simple as that"

if the guy was given a cpr, and still died, and the police made an arrest of the cpr-giver, will we defend the guy or the gym itself?

… if anyone has capable/certified of giving CPR during that incidence he/she might be helping that patient to prolong his life. If however you are certified on giving CPR, there is no way that the police will arrest you. What they (police) will do is just a routine questioning you. Doing something is better than doing nothing. It always shows to investigation what the cause how the person expired was. DO NOT WORRY.

… I agree with you. A deepest condolence to the family of the victim! But be serious about this incidence. It happens once and it will happen again if no action has been done yet.

… this is a serious issue, don’t just ignore it. A life on an innocent person has been taken. If we can do something do it now.

peace

i think the best thing to do in any circumstance of emergency is to call the proper authority. qatar is known to have a very fast response to calls with this nature. in cases of hesitation, the person helping might actually be blamed if the person died "in this person's hands." so just let them do what they are most capable to do. :)

if the guy was given a cpr, and still died, and the police made an arrest of the cpr-giver, will we defend the guy or the gym itself?

What I would like to convey is, enough we ask for an investigation and let the authorities do the facts to be investigated. Let us not preempt whether the gym is compliant or not or the staff are okay or not. A life was lost and any quarrel here will not give any positive benefit for those who grieves.

Will anybody here, except for the direct witness (friends of the deceased posting here) can come out and give expert opinions regarding this matter (considering this country's culture and laws?)

I am not siding with anybody, let the family of the victim do the action, let us support them morally and do not give false hopes considering the situation here!

My deepest condolence to the family of the victim! Let's stop quarreling and posting non-sense!

"I'm back, simple as that"

... blow you ??? for what ???

Your brain can compare to a chewing gum. “you have been chewed a hundred of times and now it is harder… then what? It’s time now to spit it on the road and let the SUV rolled over it”. I just wish these things don’t happen in one of your family (father, mother, sisters or brothers, wife or if you have children), and then you can tell them “YOUR TIME IS UP – GAME OVER”.

peace

I personally don’t believe we can do anything against the club for the following reasons

- The club is an international chain and in this business for a very long time

- I know the trainers there and they are qualified in sports. Most of them have even masters in physical training. They can easily prove that in any court.

- To give first aid or not is the discretion of a person. The club is there to give fitness facility and not a hospital.

- Everyone has signed more than 10 pages contract (yes, I mean it - it’s a contract valid for one year and automatically renewed) with the person and the club while joining the club. These contracts are prepared by specialists (with the previous experience of club) and no one really read this. I have taken a copy of that and it clearly states that club will not be responsible for a death caused due to my health issues or improper use of club facilities.

Still it is better to approch the authorities and if these kinds of accidents are covered with any insurences, that may help.

qatarmedic.......blow me...!!!!

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If Electricity Comes From Electrons,

,,,,,Does Morality Come From Morons?

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Places To Go, People To Annoy.......

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Hey guys...now lets stop making a fuss...and cud sumbdy help me out and givin me rates for fitness first ! pleeasee

well said..

what you saying is.....

we DON'T need a doctor, and the best of all we DON'T need a hospital....

... just wait for your time and GAME OVER???

hahahaa.....

your crazy....

peace

Dear nicaq25,

I was just responding to your comment, when you highlighted its nationality, no intention to raise intrigue in this sad event. Apology if you misunderstood me.

My advice is to ask a lawyer to take this case and proceed with investigating the following:

- Staff qualifications;

- Staff health and safety training;

- Witnesses of what exactly happened and how the Gym staff reacted to the incident;

- Medical report to confirm if he could have been saved if CPR would have been immediately given to him;

Gather all the above information, if found that the Gym was negligent, proceed with a case against the Gym.

If it’s your time. (game over) There nothing you can do about it, even surrounded by expert doctors. Millions die all over the world every day, what’s so special about this one.

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************************************

If Electricity Comes From Electrons,

,,,,,Does Morality Come From Morons?

************************************

Places To Go, People To Annoy.......

************************************

...are you saying a filipino's are from "UNDEVELOP" part of the world..???

... most of the staff of EMS (HMC) are from this part of the planet. well for your info... those filipino's in EMS are the most qualified, professional and competent people who you can defend on EMS. especially by giving first-aid. please better "WATCH" your language. who knows maybe today or tommorow "YOU" might need them.

peace

pls. don't start to raise any intrigue about it.

The guy who died was a father of one student in my kid's school. So I say, unfortunately as he was the sponsor of his family. Just thought about the sad fate.

Just let us know if you have any good legal advise about this matter, it would be a great help for the family.

nicaq25,

The nationality is not an issue here, he was a human being and that is the issue!

No, the gym does not have direct liability but they must employ qualified trainers (who know CPR and first aid) and they musty train them on how to act in case of occurrence of incidents like this one (likely to happen in gyms).

Failure to employ qualified trainers and/or failure to provide them adequate training may qualify them as negligent and not suitable for public use.

a Filipino:( I'd like to know if the gym has any liability to this guy (their client) because the accident was happened in their premises?

Spiker_06,

My condolences to the family in this sad moment of their lives.

I think they should, not because it will bring back your beloved friend but maybe it will improve the criteria of hiring qualified personal trainers, which might save lives in similar future incidents!

thank you Nic

His family is planning to file a case after coming back here..

my question is: in fitness first... nobody knows how to give an first aid???

this is a poor facilities, i bet and for my self.. i will not enroll in that place... nor try to suggest for all my friends...

peace

spiker,

i agree with you.

spiker_06 ,

I really feel sorry for what happened to your friend.

I hope the Qatari authorities proceed with an investigations and let the public know how competent and qualified are the Fitness First Gym here in Qatar.

The problem in this country is weak legislation and even weaker enforcement! No inspections and no auditing allow a lot of cheating that sometimes very unfortunately, kill!

In this case, it seems that the staff were not qualified or/and adequately trained!

it is not based if your from develop or undeveloped country every country has their training..and Qatar is not in their list if you choose country only UAE..

he was not given any first aid and no one tried to help him they just call an ambulance...they are responsible for their members not unless it is stated in membership form that if any incident like that happen they are not responsible..FF must check the health status of the person who wants to be a member,once they accepted a person as member they are responsible whatever happen to him inside their premises..

We all get that, its bloody common sense.

No one is saying that the gym is responsible.

We are just querying on the competences of the gym's staff and their know how to provide first aid in case of any similar incident.

Gym instructors are required to have CPR training - I mean the real ones who are paid adequate salaries in developed countries - I just question the situation here in Qatar, where standards are known to be very low (you get what you pay for) that's all!

Nic., you are not getting the whole idea. When any one sign up to join a gym, they give a statement that they have no known health problems and they will verify with a specialist doctor to assess the health status. Gym is a common facility for which you pay a fee.

There is always risk associated with any sports. You are supposed to know how to use the facility (like weightlifting) and agree to take all risks while joining. The instructors (or free help) comes as a courtesy only and not mandatory.

A gym is not a workplace and health and safety issues are only applicable to the safety of equipment and cleanliness of place. Any gym will not take the responsibility for accidents caused by individual’s unawareness, misuse or failure. Helping an individual is only a humanitarian need. Gym cannot be penalized for an individual’s death since he took part in that sport willingly assessing all risks associated with it. It is sad that a person died of heart attack. However I don't get the point that how the Gym will be responsible for his heart failure and why they shall be penalized? I will definitely agree if this was caused due to failure of any equipment or if he was forced in to this. For the first aid, no one is sure and shall be investigated

Indigo,

No one was concluding that, we were just commenting on your assumption when you wrote this:

"I think the problem is every one is afraid of the local rules and will try to avoid troubles."

smiling and helping people are infectious...

but these diseases are among the rarest here.

No one knows whether CPR/first aid was given or not. Don't conclude from assumptions.

king_qatar,

I totally agree with you, that's exactly what I meant!

not knowing local laws is very pethatic excuse to not save a life by preforming cpr or first aid,,

the gym staff should know what they do

its because of "no one knows" that "this accident should be investigated to verify the Gym's compliance and results should be published to the public. Penalties and law reinforcement should be applied to the Gym in case of defaulting with Health & Safety statutory requirements."

Nic.... I was not explaining but it was just my comments. First of all no one knows whether first aid was provided or not. I used to get first aid in FF for any small injuries or muscle strains. They have full time floor staff free to help.

The victim involved in the accident may had problems with heart. A normal person is unlikely to have cardiac arrest from low intensity cardio exercise. Gym cannot operate with cardio specialist to monitor all members. It is a personal decision to start an exercise program and each individual shall get advice from a doctor prior to start-up of exercise program especially if you are obese or over 30.

indigo,

Sorry, but your attempt of explanation is unconvincing.

I have been going to FF for last 9 months. I am sure that trainers are trained in CPR. I think the problem is every one is afraid of the local rules and will try to avoid troubles. As I said before it is hard to identify a person having cardiac arrest from normal fatigue in a group exercise classes.

All Humans have the natural instinct to save another person's life but are they trained and equipped to do so?

What I question is the gym staff's ability to respond.

Aren't they supposed to have some kind of first aid training? I don't think a Gym is allowed to operate without having on duty a First Aid trained staff. To avoid similar unfortunate situations, this accident should be investigated to verify the Gym's compliance and results should be published to the public. Penalties and law reinforcement should be applied to the Gym in case of defaulting with Health & Safety statutory requirements.

does not make you to give First Aid to anyone

I heard so.. pls correct me

I heard you have to be a CPR TRAINER professionally to do this to public... You dont know the laws in this country, you may be in trouble

hannah, this is never the problem... people who know how to help will do it no matter what.

I am trained in First Aid/CPR/AED and if faced with somebody in need I wouldn't hesitate.

In Islam, saving lives is the duty of all Muslims...

The other probelm is that there is no good samaritan law here. Therefore if you do cpr/defibrillation etc on somebody and they die you can be accused of murder. Now - I am clearly no expert on Islam and Im sure that somebody out there could fill us in - please do, but it has something to do with Allah's will and us as humans not going against it. I guess if the person does not follow Islam then the rules may be less clear but how do you know what religion that person follows or what their wishes are regarding CPR. I am a CPR and first aid instructor and what we teach is that if the person cannot confirm that they want help then all you can do is call an ambulance. You cannot even drag a person out of a burning car unless they are capable of telling you that they want you to. Worth bearing in mind for all those who would expect to be helped - if you have a cardiac arrest here the chances are nobody will step up to help you! very scary!

its true... their problem now maybe his family will go home because he is the sponsor of them..

It is the responsibility of each individual to undergo a medical examination prior to start-up of any exercise regime, especially if you are morbidly obese. This happened in a Salsa class which is considered to be less vigorous cardio class and the victim was really obese.

People stop in between classes grasping for air and it’s hard to differentiate between a cardio arrest and normal fatigue. However FF need to give some first aid and authorities need to investigate whether this was provided or do they have adequate facilities.

It’s really sad and may his soul rest in peace.

Condolence.

are u guys serious or just playing

if this is true then let his/her soul rest in peace

See exercise could kill you...lol

may his soul rest in peace.

yeah he's our friend....he died..cardiac arrest, his brother in law told us that nobody help him even though many of the members saw him having difficulty in breathing..how come they are not checking the background of the people who wants to be member of their gym..

name your source.

seriously how bored are you ?