A debate about fashion in Qatar
From the Economist. I'm sure it will be deleted.
A debate about fashion in Qatar
Cross about cross-dressing
Is it a wicked Western habit that should be stopped?
Jan 28th 2010 | DOHA | From The Economist print edition
Illustration by Claudio Munoz
CROSS-DRESSING is on the rise among young Qataris. The local press says that more tradition-minded locals are upset by the growing number of young women affecting a masculine style of dress, baggy trousers, short hair and deep voices. These women, who call themselves boyat, which translates as both tomboy and transsexual (and is derived from the English word boy), are being seen in schools and on university campuses where some are said to harass their straiter-laced sisters.
In an episode of a talk show on Qatari television, called Lakom al Karar (The Decision is Yours), a leading academic said that the “manly women” phenomenon was part of a “foreign trend” brought into Qatar and the Gulf by globalisation. Foreign teachers, the internet and satellite television have been blamed. So have foreign housemaids, for badly influencing children in their care.
The studio audience was divided over how to respond. Some called for the death penalty for cross-dressers, while others favoured medical treatment. A rehabilitation centre for Qatari boyat has been set up, but a local report says that as many as 70% of them refuse to give up their “abnormal behaviour”.
It is not just Qataris who are rattled. A year ago the ministry of social affairs in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) launched a campaign against “masculine women”. The project, entitled “Excuse me, I’m a girl”, involved workshops, lectures and television programmes, stressing the virtues of femininity and raising awareness of the presumed dangers of women looking like men. An emirates’ foundation is helping to fund a research project on “gender identity disorder among Emirati youth”.
One official describes the “deviant behaviour” of the boyat as a “menace” to society. But others sound less fazed. An American university lecturer in the region says the short hair and gym shoes worn by these young women would look perfectly normal on an American campus. That is just what unnerves the traditionalists.
each one knows themselves better than you or me.
who am i, you or others to judge?
It's that we want to show our feminine side (if a boy) or vice versa...
Cultures and mentalities apart, sad is when one can’t live his/hers own nature created by God, because of some others who think they can play God's role of judgment and control.
rightly said colt45 "curiosity KILLED the cat"... and mr.straight arrow.. its quite sad that a lady must be called a follower of a religion only if she abides by the laws,when there are men doing worser things!!! and there are women who give"killer looks"as my male colleagues call it, to men even though they are dressed in an abaya!!! all abaya'a now show the body structure or they are bright and attract attention. well,i have personally seen women who wear a headscarf n r covered head to toe,wear baggy pants n tight fitting clothes and behave very MODESTLY.. and yes, u cannot find any lady without eyemake up(and sometimes the only thing u can see about her is the eye!!!!!!!!)dont u think they apply eyemake up coz they want attention? and rightly as xena said, God gave us a mind of our own,its just tat we need to think right!!!!!!
I am so bored to discuss about this topic. Remember nothing is permanent. Things will be changed all the times. Their body chemical may be changing. Why do you want to go and fix them?
Who cares? The end of the World is near....behold the Judgement day!
I've seen couple of Boyats in Villagio and it's really really sad a place like qatar where guys are in HUGE NEED of girls this phenomena is happening that's so paradoxical.
The truth is, Straight Arrow is probably one of the more "open-minded" locals in comparison. We should remember that the Qatari population is quite low ranging in the 200-300 thousands. The community is so small that nearly everyone knows everyone.
As such, they feel that these tomboy's are not respecting their culture and tradition. Only thing we, as outsiders can do is to not pass judgement. The rest is up to the younger population to rebel or to accept tradition and continue in the steps of their elders. My two cents on the subject.
I can express my self and in order to support my points I look for some references.
Ok Xena Khallas please forget the copy and paste, and if it is ok then I will put the link only.
so literally and understood that you have to think for yourself, then why are we even having the entire discussion.... because you copy and paste everything out of the book... which means, you are following like sheep!
Khallas
visit www.qaws.org
Is against Islam, because the Quran tells us to use our mind and think and this has came in more than one statement in the holy Quran.
Xena because you do not try to read the holy Quran you will understand.
If you want you can.
Xena,
I gave up on him.
;)
anyway, may i just say that wearing an abaya is not a guarantee for modesty. my husband has been flashed so many times it's ridiculous....yes, arab women flashing their abayas & showing their breasts (ok..so this happened in ksa not here in qatar).
but I advise you, give up.... no matter how much we try to explain to Khalid.... sorry I mean Straight Arrow, that denying something will cause attraction, he will keep copying and pasting the texts that talk about how women must not dress to temp men...
Its becoming more clear to me that men and women are not considered to have a mind of their own and they don't bother with free thinking, but rather follow the book like sheep....
I sometimes wonder why God even gave us a mind of our own if not to use it to decide to live our lives for him or for ourselves...
I like having freedom of choice - If given the choice of a sexy bikini or a pair of jeans, the jeans would win hands down - given the choice of having sex with a man that was my husband or not - I would chose a husband rather - but then, thats just me - I seem to think good things - and thats my choice:-)
If talking to a man means I want to sleep with him... best I stop having conversations with my colleagues, people I meet with regards to adopting animals from the shelter or even just my friends that really don't want anything from me... Best I hibernate in my flat and never come out for fear of meeting someone new that probably just want to "fornicate"
on second thoughts, I give up now! (proves my reasons for not discussing religion - doesn't it:-)
visit www.qaws.org
..but that is just Straight Arrow's opinion & i don't think he speaks for all Qataris...at least i sure hope not!
In my opinion the thoub is not a must and me personally go to malls some times with sport clothes and some times casual trousirs and t-shirts.
Fubar it is up to the Qatari man and woman, because believe they all wear things which matches religion.
Fubar a restrict person will say jeans are forbidden and others such as T-shirts, I hope you can read more on dress in Islam and be more flexible person.
I am very flexible I do not say for a woman who is not wearing Abay bad thing, because I know 100 % some women who does not wear Abaya is better than some women who wear Abaya and vice versa.
A person is better than others when it comes to treatment and behavior and attitude.
hi
"A Qatari women and girls must respect the tradition of her country her from my point of view and that is why she wear Abaya according to my opinion."
Okay, then all Qataris should start wearing thobes and stop wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
A Qatari women and girls must respect the tradition of her country her from my point of view and that is why she wear Abaya according to my opinion.
Some men whether they are Qatari or no may look and think bad thing of a woman what ever she is wearing.
The purpose of the dress in Islam is to cover and hid the sexual part of men or women.
Some people got affected and think badly when they see things infront of them.
Then I'm confused. If you think it's okay for Qatari women outside Qatar to not wear the Abaya (Ok if a Qatari woman goes outside to western country for a visit or education but she wear a descent dress and not Abaya it is fine for me) but she must wear it in Qatar, is that because the men here stare more and look twice and think bad things more than western men?
In any case, if the Qatari guys have the freedom to wear jeans and a t-shirt and aren't forced to always wear traditional/cultural clothes, then women should also be granted that same freedom, as long as it is within religious laws.
Men and women should be held to the same standards.
A belief is defined as follow:
It is what stays in the heart and shown by the acts.
It is cultural requirement which matches with the condition of religion condition dress for Mslim women.
Here is some information on women dress in Islam:
A Hijab is a word that indicated the following conditions :
1. Clothing must cover the entire body, only the hands and face may remain visible (According to some Fiqh Schools) .
2. The material must not be so thin that one can see through it.
3. The clothing must hang loose so that the shape / form of the body is not apparent.
4. The female clothing must not resemble the man's clothing.
5. The design of the clothing must not resemble the clothing of the non believing women.
6. The design must not consist of bold designs which attract attention.
7. Clothing should not be worn for the sole purpose of gaining reputation or increasing one's status in society.
The reason for this strictness is so that the woman is protected from the lustful gaze of men. She should not attract attention to herself in any way. It is permissible for a man to catch the eye of a woman , however it is haram (unlawful) for a man to look twice as this encourages lustful thoughts.
Islam protects the woman, it is for this reason that Allah gave these laws. In today's society womankind is being exploited, female sexuality is being openly used in advertising, mainly to attract the desires of men and therefore sell the product. Is the woman really free in today's society ? The answer is obviously no, the constant bombardment by the media as to how the ideal woman should look and dress testifies to this.
Islam liberated woman over 1400 years ago. Is it better to dress according to man or God ?
Allah has stated in the Quran that women must guard their modesty.
" Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof. " [Quran : 24.31]
" Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ; that will make for greater purity for them, and God is well aquatinted with all they do. " [Quran : 24.30]
" And O ye believers turn ye all together toward God, so that ye may attain bliss. " [Quran : 24.31]
Author : Naseer Ahmad
Why do Qatari girls need to wear the Abaya in Qatar? Is the Abaya a religious requirement, or a cultural one?
As long as the Qatari girls are dressed in accordance with their religion, why shouldn't they be free to dree like conservative Muslim women from Egypt, Syria, Sudan, Jurdan, India, Pakistan, Turkey, etc etc. Women from those countries don't usually wear the Abaya, and they can still comply with religious dress requirements.
because I described my point of view wrongly and here is something I coppied fro wekipedia on Islam view to atheists:
In Islam, atheists are categorized as kafir (كافر), a term that is also used to describe polytheists, and that translates roughly as "denier" or "concealer". The noun kafir carries connotations of blasphemy and disconnection from the Islamic community. In Arabic, "atheism" is generally translated ilhad (إلحاد), although this also means "heresy".
The Quran is silent on the punishment for apostasy, though not the subject itself. The Quran speaks repeatedly of people going back to unbelief after believing, and gives advice on dealing with 'hypocrites':
Sura 9:73,74 - "O Prophet, strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,-- an evil refuge indeed. They swear by God that they said nothing [evil], but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was [their] only return for the bounty which God and His Apostle had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back [to their evil ways], God will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter. They shall have none on this earth to protect or help them." (Abdullah Yusuf Ali)
The Hadith expound upon dealing with apostates, whether they become Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or atheist:
Bukhari, volume 9, #17 "Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, 'The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.'"
Bukhari, volume 9, #37 "Narrated Abu Qilaba: Once Umar bin Abdul Aziz sat on his throne in the courtyard of his house so that the people might gather before him....He replied 'By Allah, Allah's messenger never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: 1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) 2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and, 3) a man who fought against Allah and His messenger, and deserted Islam and became an apostate....'"
Bukhari, volume 9, #57 "Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.' [italics added]"
Other relevant Hadithic verses include Bukhari, volume 9, #58, 64, 271.
Atheists in Islamic countries and communities frequently conceal their non-belief (as do people with other condemned qualities, such as homosexuality). Many sociologists interested in the Islamic nations wonder how Islam will continue to deal with these issues as these nations are exposed to Western worldviews, traditionally founded on Enlightenment-based secularism and tolerance, the Enlightenment being a movement that was largely absent from the Muslim world.
I hope this will clarify things.
Sorry If I have insulted anyone indirectly.
I respect you all.
You are asking Qatari women and girls not to wear Abaya right?
You want them to go the colleges and work without Abaya right?
Ok if a Qatari woman goes outside to western country for a visit or education but she wear a descent dress and not Abaya it is fine for me.
I am also a supporter for a Muslim woman who is studying in the west and not wearing Hijab if the Hijab will cause others to embarece her or kill her.
Nic please have the courage and answer my first two questions.
Khalid is back!
Limited intellect obliges copy-paste.
Sorry mate, I do like a rational debate but you have shown me innumerous times that you are not able to carry out one.
As such, end of my dialogue with you.
Straight Arrow,
I am impressed by the substance of your input!
PS. the world is what it is diverse and colorful and it does not revolve around any particular individual so (although I am wasting my time), avoid interfering on what people want or don’t want to ware. Maybe consider upgrading education standards to prepare the children to look at the world as it is without the need to hide women under piles of black cloth.
As somebody here kindly advice me here, there is no point in discussing certain things here with certain people!
You said many know about Islam and I thought it is good to read this for enhancing:
The word Islam as you know is derived from the root, s-l-m and it means to surrender or submit. This is as the way of life Allah has decreed for mankind is to surrender and submit peacefully to Him.
The basic teachings of Islam transcend time and so, they mean the same in the modern times as in the ancient times. From the Islamic point of view, the best generation of Muslims was Prophet Muhammad and his companions. Our duty, we moderns, is to grasp the human and social essence of that exemplary ideal model and make our Islam relevant and beneficial for humankind in our modern life, as best as we can. The principles remain the same, today as before. This is as they are based on the essence of human nature, as Allah has created it. They are also based on the social interactions, as seen fair and just by Him.
Throughout the process of application, we may come across problems created by the conditions of historical contexts and modes of life. Here, we ought to be careful that the tide of modernity does not carry us off our Islamic moorings. Nor should our attempts fall in the trap of becoming either an imitation of the other or a full rejection of the modern age. Hence, losing track of the middle way and straight path of Islam.
We know that ours is called a hyper-tech world. So, if we ignore the extraordinary strides made by modern man in the field of science and technology, we will slide much behind the rest of the world. Then, in the course of time, we will be nowhere in worldly terms. More than any other time, we are learning now about the immense price we are made to pay for our lapses in this field!
The recent events in international politics clearly drove us towards a rethinking of our approaches, methods, intellectual and scientific priorities, no doubt. This is clearly understandable, because Islam is not meant for a particular period only, and what is more, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has taught us the dynamics of how to stem the tides of changes without deviating from our fundamental beliefs and practices. One of the key instruments of this dynamics is ijtihad (=the process of making judgment based on the Qur’an and sunnah, to find answers to new situations and differing circumstances).
Unfortunately, those of our scholars who are competent and confident enough to use ijtihad in the best and the most effective way are very few. But we have to rely on them, in order to confront the issues related to modernity and its challenges.
Also, Muslims in daily life make their own continuous effort to accommodate modernity and be accommodated as Muslims within its worlds. Experience has taught us that to adopt an ostrich-like policy here is suicidal. If the community of believers, whom Allah entrusted with the responsibility of commanding good and prohibiting evil, are withdrawing from the arena of the contentious world of the present, who then would fulfill this duty? Should we declare ourselves incapable of that God-given duty and expect others who are more qualified to “replace” us?
God says in Surah 47, verse 38:
*{… and if you turn away [from the path] He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you.}*
As for the second part of your question we need to understand that from the Islamic point of view, only those actions are considered good, which are motivated by one’s belief in Allah. Believing in Allah means obedience and humility to Him. This should automatically include kindness to others.
The traditions of the prophet (pbuh) and his life example point how Islam is all about morality, codes of ethics and good manners. Even worship is classified as paying tribute to Allah, as The Creator of heavens and earth, and Who has the attributes of kindness and mercy, which Muslims should abide by.
What we need to understand is that from the Islamic point of view, only those actions are considered good, which are motivated by one’s belief in Allah. And, as mentioned above, belief in Allah means obedience and humility to Him. In the case of such a person, there will indeed be kindness to others. Whatever we do by way of good to others is in obedience to Allah. So, our kindness to others is a natural result of our obedience to Allah.
Can one say: “I consider kindness to others as less important than obedience to Allah?” It would be a meaningless proposition indeed, since kindness to others is a consequence of our obedience to God. Islam was revealed as a mercy to humanity. So, how can those who believe in it and are obliged to convey it, not be required to be kind and merciful?
Read more: http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015794&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE#ixzz0eSHptJac
It is a nature thing that some men will stare at a woman evene she is wearing Abaya or not and some men will not stare.
I consider staring (continuous look) is some kind of a personality illness which is not good.
It is also the women luck that if they talk with men the men think she wants something more or men wants something more.
It is all about some men and women personality and education level.
The western women and girls are most welcome to live here in Qatar as long as they respect our cultures and traditions which many of them are doing and thats why many Qatari people like this type of western women and girls.
Girls and western women can go to the beaches and enjoy swimming wearing bikini and it is ok for me if they do that.
If a man does not want to see this he can simply not go to the beach or go to another part of the beach.
I am not telling western women to wear Burqa and Abaya but simply a descent dress which many western women are doing, I am not telling you Nic to wear a thoub (local men dress here in Qatar).
Life is about respecting each other which obviously you do not have from your reply to me.
Any how I guess the message is clear live and let live according to some limits.
Nic here is some good statements:
1. Humans can not live without freedome
2. Freedome without limit is chaos.
3. Chaos destroys communities.
No one will tell you Nic to go to the Mosque if you are in a Muslim country.
No one will tell a Muslim to drink alcohol if he is in a western country.
Qatar is a small nation with arich heritage and tradition. It is treading a fine line in developing its peoples and infrastructure whilst retaining its culture.
The same happened in Saudi.
Straight Arrow,
You represent the reasons why my consideration over your philosophy of life is declining every single day I remain here!
You are a product of such an intense indoctrination that puts you and me in completely different dimensions, which leaves us with no common ground.
Even though you are able to speak and write English words, you are totally unable to understand basic principles of respect of human beings as rational individuals that need to grow develop and create in accordance with their own nature – that same nature, that you call Allah, gave them!
This is not because you are a mean person but because you were very well indoctrinated since young age. The way you see the world would never allow you to be at peace and relaxed in the Western World. You are trained to never look at a stranger woman in bikini and if it happens, you get uncomfortable with an internal struggle between (probably) desire and guilt. Western guys grow up with other girls since kindergarten all through life. Obviously some cases like you love to mention happen like teen sex and pregnancies, but hey that’s nature and they usually come from either too much control or negligence, but they are NOT the norm! Individuals in the western world learn as INDIVIDUALS how to grow up and coexist in society and still have space for their individuality.
I have been in many western countries and Muslim countries. Do you know where girls who travel by themselves encounter most harassment? Ask any girl who dared to travel in any Muslim country by them selves and even with their boyfriends and they will tell you – Muslim countries.
Why is this with all your indoctrination? I tell you why, because Muslim men are generally less prepared to coexist with the opposite sex without thinking of fornication (the word used in Islam).
See Straight Arrow, you lack a whole life of preparation to understand our own and that is why you not only don’t trust us but don’t trust your men and women and then call it "hide to protect"!
So please be informed that you are in a different dimension but learn a bit about us like we learn about you and you will be more relaxed with what you call it offensive!
Just because different people have different interpretations of the unknown before the beginning and after the end of life, don’t you try to condition anybody’s life in the name of philosophy – that will be a SIN.
Remember that, there is a possibility, even if it’s very tinny, that all was just man made and at the end there will be nothing. So, don’t interfere on others choices, let them live the way they choose as long as they don’t physically harm you!
And one more think, don’t assume that the non-Muslims have no clue about Islam, some of us study it as they do with other philosophies… the rationality of dome of us are able to do so with no need to sell our souls to a unique cause.
This threat was about a group of individuals not being free to express themselves the way (probably) their nature and characters tells them.
Thank you and appreciate if you keep your attempts of indoctrination to the religious forum.
With progress comes change! how much can Qatar handle?
-----------------
Can We Fix It?
Yes We Can!
Weird thoughts and mindsets they have over here.
It's not that bad. I just had a tomboyish girlfriend lately and it sounds fine by me.
Although expect a 'boyfight' from her on some misunderstandings. Comes from experience. ;-P
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Is this really cross dressing ?
There will always be women in all societies who want to "break out"
Most westerners dress according to what we would wear at home.
Most of us don't go out in revealing clothes at home, so we don't do it here - do you want us dressing in Abayas?
Again what is it you want us to respect? The thread is about young, i would assume Qatari women dressing like boys - how is that our fault? what is there for us to respect in this matter?
We didn't tell them or ask them to dress this way - its insulting that you would blame us for causing them to dress like this. Did you ever think that maybe they too have a mind of their own and wish to dress like this, and might have dressed like this without even knowing what our cultures are like?
Yes islam teaches "correct" dressing for women, your women, do you think maybe these young women haven't received the correct teachings that now they wish to do there own thing? I see that as failure on the part of the parents or the "religious scholars" if thats the case. According to islam if the girls have been schooled correctly, they should do whatever it is that islam says - not there own will - so where does the fault lie here?
With the girls religious instruction? Or with the sordid west that seems to inspire them?
Personally, I have yet to see a woman in Qatar that doesn't get stared at, with or without an abaya.
As I have stated before, I wear jeans and t-shirts - I try to look as unattractive as possible - not to attract attention - I still get looks... when I wear an Abaya - even covering my face - I still attract looks - so please don't come and tell me it goes according to what you wear, cause its not...
I hadly ever get involved in religious debates, cause I find them boring and I have very little interest in my own religion, let alone anyone elses, but think on this...
With all the talk of how women should behave, dress, act - so as not to attract unwanted 'sexual attention' don't you think it makes men more prone to wanting what they know they cannot have?
Back in our countries - we dress and act in similar manners as we do here - can you tell me why every man that I have as my friend, looks at me, just as a friend and not as someone to sleep with?
Why here, when you are friends with a man, in the end they almost always want something more? Infact, when you meet someone for the first time, its almost expected, whether you are meeting them for business or just as a friend. Why do most muslim men (and I really don't mean to generalise) think that when a woman talks to them, its going to be more than just a conversation?
When you forbid something, it becomes like Adam and the apple! But not placing emphasis on things and just taking things as they come, most people wouldn't even think about it again.
I know I have gone off topic here, but its something I have wanted to question for a long time.
visit www.qaws.org
when you respect the customs and traditions here.
I can say that all Qatar hates those who ask to forget the values here and say it is normal to have some Qatari women not wearing descent dress.
Nic More developed Modles like what?
This impossible we are Muslims who wear dress according to Islam, I do not say Abaya is a must but I say yes for descent dress.
Nic please explain what is your opinion on the women dress here in Qatar and in the Gulf.
gotta love it.... I think its insulting to arabs that their leaders have this idea they are guillable and led by anything westen. It almost seems like they don't have a mind of their own, that they cannot think for themselves that they have to follow us and our cultures.
There is a saying in english, you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink....
Regarding the cross-dressing.... I am curious, what would I be classed as? I wear jeans, t-shirt and sneakers every chance I get - but I have long hair and wear jewellery.... hmmmm not male or female;-P
visit www.qaws.org
What’s wrong to express who you are, as long as you are not harming anybody else?! Its probably their nature (creation of god).
I wish I have never learned how pathetic societies behave in this region!
I know they are very young and conditioned by strongly engraved dogmas, but come on people, with the money they have, they could benchmark themselves with more developed existent models!
Sad, it’s all I can say!
Why arab woman in the Gulf do not wear like european women here? I told him if they wear the same then what is the difference?
I told him they will lose their idintity.
Ok see the word boyat is not meant to be said on a girl who dress like a boy but is meant to be said on a girl who acts like a boy here in the Gulf.
Ummjake your are you said culture and traditions will change here in the Gulf in the coming few years but believe people will stick to their traditions and culture do you know why?
Because here in the Gulf cultures and traditions take their roots from Islam.
Its our choice...
every individuals has diffirent characteristics...
likes,knowledge about fashions,the way they want for thereselves..
we`re now in a new generation..hightech!
It's inevitable.
Just because a woman has short hair and prefers pants to skirts doesn't mean she is any less of a woman than the next gal.
This culture is very hung up on the importance of women being "feminine" -- whatever they think that means (having long hair and not wearing trousers, apparently).
A recent post by a prominent Qatari blogger quoted a student who extolled a visiting Kuwaiti female member of parliament, saying she was "a perfect example of how a Muslim woman from the gulf can succeed and flourish and still be feminine and respectful."
This to me shows the underlying belief many folks here have that for a woman it is JUST as important to be feminine as it is to be successful in your chosen profession.
What a concept.
"I wish I could drink like a lady. I can take one or two at the most. Three and I'm under the table. Four and I'm under the host"
-- Dorothy Parker
History has proven that a woman's choice of dress is more than just about what she "feels" like wearing. These young ladies are making a statement. And I like it.
Thanks Sness, there are days I try to look womanly. But with my three brats around I usually end up being "one of them". MyIts more of football & hockey sessions, rather than "pedicures & manicures". But I enjoy it.
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"We live life forward, but understand it backward"
Agree to dress what ever you like and at the same time respect the culture and tradition of the country.
For example me personally I have never down graded a Qatari woman who is wearing or not wearing Abaya at Western countries, even Indian women with their Sari.
Qatars people will hate to see a Qatari girl wearing un respected dress show her sexy parts, and as long as the dress is descent then there is no problem and same for the boys.
Now what happen these days is simple, it is some teenagers who are affected by some of the surroundings.
Can we answer why many get shocked when seeing their daughters or sons wearing bad dress?
The answer is simple because the common sense of many people is the descent dress.
Icemaiden, having met you now, I can honestly say you're way too feminine looking to be called a tomboy :-)
SS :-) as always xx
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
agree totally with you about modesty and about dressing for the occasion.it's sad that not many of them realise that.
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
see,the really and genuinely attractive woman does not need to exhibit herself in any way to gather attention.it's only when she has no other means to do so that she resorts to exhibition of assets.why can a woman exhibit her intelligence instead?i'm sure it would be more appealing,IMHO
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
Being a fulltime Mum, I consider pants and tops "practical" outfits especially when you are running around trying to do a million things. Does that make me a tomboy then?
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"We live life forward, but understand it backward"
The funny thing to me is that for a woman to be taken seriously in the US (Hilary Clinton, Condi Rice, Nancy Pelosi etc) she HAS to wear a pant suit.
Sarah Palin tried to different by wearing skirts, and that probably backfired. She tried to make Hilary look masculine, by trying to be feminine, and the problem with that is that a lot of people tend to equate 'feminine' with 'unintelligent'.
I find the Qatarias wearing ass-hugging, breast-friendly abayas while swaning about with designer accessories more of a threat to 'Qatari values' than girls who wear full length, baggy, and unrevealing 'manly' clothes.
SS, I agree with you to a certain extent, but you should be allowed to wear whatever you want as long as you're dressed modestly. You dress accordingly depending on where you're going.
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
This reminds me of the backlash in the 1950's in the US when women started wearing pants. :P
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
In my opinion, I don't consider a woman a "vamp" or "up for anything" by just some show of skin from whatever she is wearing. It all depends on how she carries that off and behaves.
Sevlte thank you so much.... :)
I've always dressed tomboyish, it was hard for me to dress professional for work and I never touched make up or started wearing it regularly till I was 26 almost 27. I'm not soft (well maybe a bit round the tummy at the moment but the working out should take care of that :P) and most certainly not shy, nor would I ever want to be or want my daughters to be.
Tooba just because I don't want to attract attention does not mean I'm willing to forfeit my identity and my respect for myself by hiding my face like a little baby who's scared of the big bad world.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
take it both ways...or whichever way u want.
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
You're talking from a male or female perspective?
ah the sari!i never tire of hearing praises about it.it is my all-time favourite attire.but i restrict myself from wearing it here coz i know i'll (yet again) draw more than a few casual stares.
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
colt45....y'know the usual kinda dressing u see that makes u feel uncomfortable....like a dress that looks more like body paint and that leaves nothing for the imagination of the onlooker and way too much of skin show which gives out the image of a vamp more than anything else! :-S
snessy...it works that way in the west,i reckon.here,i don't see any other reason as to WHY a woman should exhibit her skin so much in spite of knowing that the country's culture does not appreciate a woman of decency to dress that way.when in roma,do as the romans do.i don't advocate wearing an abaya for that matter for all individuals.but covering up is certainly good....just as a mark of respect for the culture we live in.
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
yeah true... and i like it when "my western friends" wear them, they look adorable... :-)
I second you on that... besides, even the "Indian Sari" worn by different castes in India does reveal a lot too. That don't make those women the "up for anything" types.
Colt45, I agree, Saris are extremely sexy, especially if they're worn on the hips, they show off alot more of the body than a skirt & top :-)
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
well this debate talks about 'tomboy', 'boyat' or lesbians among locals...
how about the gays? they were in thobe but their act and gestures show their gayness...lolz
well, its none of my business... coz im not lesbian nor local/arab.. ;)
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People's criticism and sarcasm can show the other side of you.. it tests your true attitude and character.
What I think is skimpy may be completely different to what others may think. You dress according to your upbringing or the country you come from, just because one woman shows a bit more skin doesn't necessarily mean she is "up for it"
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
"u wear skimpy revealing clothes,it implies u're up for anything"... what's that all about?
VERY interesting article Olive. Always intriguing to see how people of different cultures regard "the norm". I guess Id be considered a cross dresser then... who occasionally likes to dabble in her feminity. :)
if it did not do so already....it will do so
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
curiosity killed the cat.. ;-P
Girl should wear what they like. I'd say ban burka also like in France.
VIKAS KAUSHIK
see...the curiosity is always there....maybe she is like this,maybe she is like that....i don't want some strange men thinking lewd thoughts about me.thank you very much!
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
or... maybe she's ugly, thicker than a snicker and that is why she's all covered up :-P
quite on the contrary,what i've noticed is that a girl in a fully covered abaya attracts more attention from men coz nobody wants to see something in a see through cover....but everybody is curious about what's inside a wrapped up present....LOL ;-) i don't say that i'd walk around naked for that matter.but i just wear normal girl-next-door clothes...i don't like extremes.moderation is good in certain things.it goes something like this....u wear skimpy revealing clothes,it implies u're up for anything.u cover urself without showing an inch of urself outside,"ooooh!she is too hot.that's why she's covered herself up so completely"
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
fubar...the above article is about females so we are commenting on that...but I believe its the same thing for men and boys too that a man have to have manly appearance and dress up what ever way but to look like a man!
Be ready for change Qatar!!! Whether it be for the better or worse, who are we to judge? Live and let live!
Everybody should be free to wear what they like. Girls look very beautiful in jeans also. What's wrong in that. Why all restrictions for girls. I am against burka also.
VIKAS KAUSHIK
see Qatar in 20 years....
OK, so let me get this straight. If a girl wears baggy pants & t-shirts then she is cross-dressing? LMAO!
Olive, its nice to hear that you wanna stick to your decision. Keep it up!
I think different occasions require different attire. I suppose they would wear their traditional dress during weddings, casuals in college etc.
As far as the short hair thing goes, I have seen girls who look more sensual in short hair.
Frankly, fashion is a very personal thing. People like wearing what looks good on them or what they feel comfortable in.
Straight arrow........I agree with ur opinion that woman is all about softness, shyness & kidness
feminine looks and gestures are the essence of the true beauty of a woman
So Qatari boys with skin tight thobes, long hair, lip gloss and make up mincing through Landmark hasn't been raising eyebrows, but girls who are covered up but wearing 'manly' clothes is a problem.
It always seems to me that the guys can get away with anything in this country (cheating, drinking, dropping out school) but the the girls are held to a much higher standard - they must be virgins when they get married, can't go to bars, and are expected to cover.
I can really understand why that would lead a lot of the young girls to rebel and act out and refuse to conform to such a double standard.
When I first came to Qatar, I dressed down, but hubby reminded me that I should be myself and reminded me that I never changed for him, why the hell was I changing the way I dress for a bunch of strangers. As long as you cover vital parts, you should dress however you like.
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Olive, if your only intention to is to have less unwanted attention from men then why dont u cover your head?? also your body and face too??? instead of giving a boyish look??
I have seen respectable ladies who donot wish to be noticed, they cover them selves with descent clothings and loose Abayas are the best options
quite true,olive....wish more people would realise that.i personally prefer to dress down when i go out coz i hate to attract unwanted attention....it sure does make me feel uncomfortable.
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
Frankly it's easier to cover up wearing baggy pants & t-shirts for a girl and having short hair cause you attract less unwanted attention from the men.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
What were you doing with spanish girl Khalid?
isn't dressing supposed to be a matter of personal choice....of course the laws of the land make it compulsory to cover-up....but does it matter what we cover up with?
Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. ~ Garrison Keillor
Man is a man and woman is a woman.
Woman is known for her kindness and softness and shiness since many years and man is known for his toughness and hard working to support the family since many years.
Here in the Gulf the arabic woman is most respected when she wear a good Abaya which is not stretching and showing the sexy parts of her body, also the Arabic woman who does not wear Abay but descent dress is also respected but a woman who does not wear Abaya and showing her cleavage is not welcome by Arab and non Arab and I remember very well when I was walking in St Cathrine street with a spanish girl a woman came walking showing her cleavage, the spanish girl said yach what is this?
See even some westerns like to see descent dress.
See these Qatari boys who wear like westerns are wearing it when they go to the malls only but in official occasions they will wear the thoub.
But why focus on just the women. There's PLENTY of gay men here as well.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
I think they are talking about the Lesbians here...those with the short hair....boyish looks....etc. But they are expressing it in a vague way.
Maybe ....they want to address the problem...but hide it at the same time.
Or perhaps there is no such word (lesbian) in Arabic?
....because I dont think they will hold discussions & seminar just for girls wearing pants....
In my opinion,i think it is some kind of psychological disorder that is within the mind's of these young people.
Is not just the short haired girls who are cross dressing, but there are long haired boys in thobe as well. It might have been always there ie, an affinity to dress like the opposite sex, not just started as a result of western media,no one can make a person do what they don't ahv within.Since it's more fun for cross dressing girls to sport gym shoes& tattooed biceps than walk around in white thobe, now the west is to b blamed. Sadly no amt of restriction/counciling can stop any one following their own heart....
You can be HOT or COLD to me, spare me LUKEWARM!!!!
I have short hair (shorter then most Qatari men's) and wear baggy trousers & I consider myself a tomboy and always have. What's wrong with that? Just because I'm a girl does that mean I have to wear pink & skirts & dresses?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Olive u asked our opinion on this ...I would say...Yap it is a wicked habit and needs to be stopped....I believe its a mental disorder if a girl wants to look like a boy.
Crappy internet at work actually.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
posts Olive....
I presume in anticipation of getting deleted.
Qatar on progressive chart.....