Call to integrate expats into society
I read with great interest this article in Gulf Times yesterday which was discussed as part of the launching of Qatar National Vision 2030 ceremony attended by very eminent people.
I have this to say.It is a very good and commendable step. But I think that a call to also encourage locals to integrate with expats would have been a good step as well. We expats, we are already trying hard to integrate in the Qatari society. If not, we have already done it. We try to learn their language, be courteous to them. But I feel it is the locals who appear to resist this. How many of us expats would love to befriend a local but we tend to get repulsion. If not repulsion, either indifference or arrogance. It appears to me that there is an element of fear from the part of some expats for the Qataris people. I heard some people say that they fear deportation if they challenge a local in trying to fight for his right. On the roads for example, some expats say they have to accept that locals have priority over them irrespective of the fact they are following the traffic rules and driving standards to the letters. Or I hear or see at shopping malls that it is acceptable that a Qatari to jump the queue or won't say sorry if they step on your toes. You can't lift a finger, I hear some expats say, as they are Qatari. I accept the fact that the country is theirs and not ours. It would be stupid if I did not. But in terms of fairness, would it not be a good idea to uphold fairness? I for one would rather be loved and admired than being feared.
I am quoting an extract from the last sermon prophet Muhammad(saw) made on mount Arafat before he died:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
We are all the same...humans with different appearance but with the same internal organs. Our blood is red, we all have got a heart. We all eat and shit although what gets in the mouth may not be the same. But bottom line is what gets out stinks the same.
I once worked in a hospital. During our nursing traineeship we were shown two dead bodies in the autopsy room. One was a black guy and the other a white one. Our professor completely peeled off the skin from both bodies including the face as part of the course.
Guess what, you could hardly say which one was black and which one was white. Both bodies looked the same and horrible. This sight taught me a great lesson: The colour of our skin, our external appearnce, that is the first culprit in creating beauty, uglyness or racism in human beings. Internally we are all the same.
People, please forgive me if I appear to have offended anyone who is a Qatari. I only wanted to tell you how you are being seen by others. I just wanted to remind all of us that we are all the same. If tomorrow this earth shake under our feet in Qatar, we will all suffer from it irrespective of whether we drive 4WD or use a Karwa bus. One day or another we will all die and we will be all forgotten except for our good deeds.
By the way, when I say to some expats that I have couple of Qatari friends and that they come at my place or I go to visit them, they looked at me in surprise. They asked: "How did you do that?" "Simple," I replied, " I just go and make friends and talk freely without fear."
The point I am trying to make after writing so much is
: You Qatari people, you ARE a good people.But somehow people are scared of you. And I have this question to ask: Do you prefer to be feared or be loved?
Some of you may say "GO BACK TO WHEREVER YOU COME FROM or IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, GO. NO ONE NEEDS YOU HERE" I don't hate any nationality. I just hate bad people with an attitude.
Rich or poor we will all die tomorrow. Nothing belongs to us. Everything belongs to God. And to Him is our return.(Inna lillahi wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon") God is the final Inheritor of all things. This is my motto in life. I live by it every second of my life.
First of all, I did not read the article, so sorry for having been general in my answers.
Also I would like to say that so many Qataries make an effort to speak English. Whenever I sit somewhere, doctors, hospital etc the Qatari ladies start talking to me. I think it is because I wear Hijab and look so totally european. They always want to know why I wear hijab and ask me if I am a muslim. When I answer yes to they start up a conversation that will last untill one or the other has to move. Many give me their phone number and take mine. Even when their English is limited and broken, but together with her broken English & my broken Arabic we talk.
And yes, I do not feel as being an ex-pat any more. Qatar is my country and I will stay here until they take me to Abu Hamour.
Aisha-Taweela
somehow u r right Arien...but do you realise also how much effort some qataris do make to try to speak english..not only qataris but some other arabs as well.
even some indians here don't speak english, mainly the car mechanics...
but language is not necessarily the issue. it's ones personal inability to get on well with others...or shyness to kickstart a conversation like Amnesia said.
I thank you all for your comment.
I think language is one big barrier...
How many expatriates can speak arabic??
How many Qataris can speak English??
i-moody, if you had come to the Wear Something Yellow event, you would have seen that a lot of the expats didn't want to mix in with the Qataris, even though they said common join in with us, mix up.
Qataris by nature do not go up to strangers, whether Arabic or Expats usually.
However if you kick start the conversation, it'll be as if you've been friends for years. :)
__________________________
Mr. Q's Blog - A Qatari's view on Qatar.
I am so impressed with your will to participate on this topic. Like QFire said...I was only seeking a rapprochement betwwen two cultures. Today was my partner's birthday.We went to the Marriott. Next to us was a Qatari guy with his partner. Guess what happened? We ended up moving to their table with our food and enjoyed some funny jokes.
See what I mean. There should be a willingness from both parties. At the end of the day, we are both human beings.
I went to join his table without fear that I find in other of my folks. Even all the other hotel staff found it strange how we ended up on the same table. Finally, after exchanging phone numbers, we fought over who should visit his friend first...
We should all make teh effort to integrate with other culture so we learn more about the other culture and they too learn and admire mine too.
Like Aisha Taweela was saying, I find Qataris very nice people, have a sense of humour and the guy made us laugh so much. Had a good time tonight.
wow!! snowyowl
Yeah man!
Yes we have a history which Qatar can draw on and in some ways perhaps they are. But our development took steps as will theirs. It is true that human rights is a fundimental element for a world community and that there are issues in Qatar (very real issues) which require candid discussion and resolution.
An important element to the world is the uniquness of various parts of it. It's not all modern, western, busy, bland and impersonal and I hope that Qatar moves quickly to establish itself in an international scene, but does so on its own terms, with its own citizens fully supportive of the approach.
Yes there is a real slave mentality here, yes wages on the basis of skill not nationality are an issue. The treatment of people in a balanced, open and transparent fashion are all really important.
It takes time and I hate to say that many of the victories in regard to human rights have been hard fought and sadly rapidly erroded by many western nations. Hmm Qatar should not detain without trial, but it is OK for other nations to do so for up to 75 days???
I know this takes us off topic but it is easy to take a pious position. Here, hell how many nuvo rich do you know who have there own qr600-1000 a month slave and see no issues with it. So if we are to lecture we must also model not just sight the benifits of history but also sharply and loudly criteque our peers who so willingly sing to the same tune.
I may be blonde but I am wise
smile lots laugh more
I've got loads of Qatari friends. Find them really nice people actually, so I don't find I have a problem integrating.
Thanks for bringing us back on track. It's easy to get lost amongst the trees and bushes.
I'd like say that I don't think anyone said it was wrong for the QNV to have its own unique approach to "guest of the nation" but I think that i-moody used the Gulf-Times article to introduce certain aspects of life in Qatar for discussion that she obviously felt strongly about. I trust one of her motives was to help us and any Qatari participating, to contribute to its improvement.
I feel a need to say something on one issue you raised. We have all heard how Qatar is young and trying to develop at a pace that our cultures took tens of years and more to do. To be quite frank, I'm sick of hearing it. They have the benefit of our expertise and experience. They should use it. Qatar is doing what Qatar wants. If it wants to be accepted by the world community, it has to integrate into the world community. To do so, it does what it has to. If that means building a society that protects human rights then its Qatar's choice so to do. If Qatar chooses to seek advice good and or bad, then it their choice too. If they choose to have a narrow sighted vision or a broad vision then its also their choice. No one is saying its wrong. In similar ways, we all make our own choices.
The post started referencing the Qatar National Vision (QNV)and then like so many, wondered about touching a multutide of topic.
The QNV contains a number of really important messages for Citizens and "guests" of Qatar. The nation is young, it has had (thanks to its hydro-carbon's) huge growth and prospeirty. The nation has also seen massive social changes in a very short time. The role of women possibly the most notable amoung these. So the leaders of Qatar have sent clear signals about where they see Qatar heading.
What many of us westerners must remember is our own countries (mine included) took decades to undertake the reforms that Qatar has in 10 years. Should Qatar debate how its nationals want to interact with ex-pats, the answer is YES, its in the QNV but more importantly that have no option but to. They're creating over 20,000 new jobs a year and simply don not have the population to sustain it. The reality is thay do have a CHOICE about how they want to do it. And yes this is also similar to our own countries. Are there issues? Of course! But if we look to nearby cities, we can see there are also great risks.
Should Qatar simply build a big city scape that can be found anywhere in the world (I guess they could but should they???) Lets hope the pace is not too slow and that Qatar keeps growing in a directioin that also preserbves what is important and hopefully we can assist in that process.
I may be blonde but I am wise
smile lots laugh more
You are definitively right, QFire. There is absolutely no incentive for anyone coming to Qatar other than to make as much money as one can. Qatar is not "inviting" to stay. It tells you all the time, 'we need your expertise, but not you'. It happens only very few times that Qatar is interested in you as a person. They want your knowledge and skills.
I need to qualify my statements.
I once was an ex-pat in Singapore. I was there for an undersea tunnel project for about 3 years. I was mercenarily paid a load of money and buggered-off back to Oz when I completed the project.
During my stay in Singapore I had such a great time and was treated very well by the locals. I made lots of friends and eventually, 5 years later, married a Singapore girl. After returning to Oz, I took my vacations in Singapore and always stopped over whenever the opportunity arose.
Eventually, finding Oz too vanilla I quit and returned to Singapore to work not as an ex-pat but on equal terms as a local. I considered myslef an immigrant even though I did not actually applying for citizenship. There I met my current wife and all things Singapore have been great since.
I'm here in Qatar on a limited service contract as part of an opportunity to make some money just like an ex-pat and will return to my business in Singapore in the very near future. I doubt however that I will be singing praises for Qatar, the culture and the country. I also doubt that I will ever return and immigrate here like I did in Singapore.
So an ex-pat to me is someone who comes to make a load of money similar to a mercenary. There is no love for a country or its life style and culture. Once that occurs, the definition must surely change. No?
Congratulations, you have successfully crossed the line from being an ex-pat to being an Integrated Immigrant? Would the term ex-pat really apply after remaining here for 18 years?
I'm also not sure whether you lost the thread though. I though we were all talking about an Article in the Gulf Times yesterday in which it was suggested that integration of ex-pats into Qatari culture might be a good thing for someone.
Most Qataris I know would not subscribe to the thought
Aisha, I am here since 15 years. My "friends" are Qataris. They swear they will not let me go. But legally they can always kick me out whenever they want. That kind of uncertainty could be an issue. (Not that I have an issue).
Now there's a thought. Really, think about it for a moment in today's context.
PK
No not really, why would they want to kick me out? I do not do anything wrong. I dont rock the boat and the boat does not rock me. That does not mean that they did not try in my early years here. But I went about it with a cool head and got help from my Qatari friends.
Aisha-Taweela
As you can see from my comments above I have found all of your comments very interesting, especially being a mixed race person who grew up in Multi-Cultural Australia and has lived in Europe (Germany predominantly) and Singapore.
Unfortunately I missed yesterdays Gulf Times but will try to get a copy of it. The article clearly touched a nerve in i-moody who apparently feels quite strongly about the matter.
I'm not sure we are all have the same understanding of what is meant by the "integration of ex-pats into society". Personally I think that once an ex-pat is integrated into a particular society, he can no longer be an "ex-pat" as I understand the term "ex-pat" to be.
Ex-pats I know come to a country for one purpose and one purpose only, to fulfill a service agreement. They get paid a load of money for a limited time then go home. What benefit is there to be gain by integrating a transient? Pay him more money and he might stay. What benefit would te transient gain by being integrated? More money?
Immigrants on the other hand might be target for intergration. What however would be the benefit for Qatar to integrate these people into Qatari Society? There are many I'm sure. One of them is increasing the national gene pool. I think this is a very important issue for a people who are a minority in their own country. To accomplish this, you need immigrants first. People who are willing to come and live here in Qatar for something other than making money to take away home with them.
In order to attract immigrants you first need an attractive image which will be confirmed first by ex-pats whom have actually experienced the atractiveness of the image so they can go back to their home countries and talk about how wonderful the experience was. So, be extra special nice and good to your expats and they will go back to their home countries and sing your praises. This will attract more and encourage immigrants. Unless of course Qatar does not want immigrants to integrate into society.
Right now, with the inequities described in the comments above and in other forums (see Qatar Qairway teh only 5-Star Airline), I don;t see this happeneing within the next 2 generations.
And still, Aisha, after 18 years, if they want it they can kick you out. Right or not?
I will give an answer to the subject which was the initial question and forget about all the Qatar bashing (as usual) comments. If I have to reply to those my answer would be too long.
The question of integration is not because the Qataries dont like it. But because of a cultural point of view. First of all, you all know that Islam is the religion here. Islam is not only a religion, but a way of life,a culture. Most westerners are sooo far away from this culture & life style that, yes the Qatari's are not interested in getting to know them. The same as you or I are not interested in being friends who with someone who would not understand or respect your way of thinking/doing/living.
Also the Qataries tend to stay in their own circle and have done so for centuries, this even includes not socializing with other Qatari families.
Another factor would be, the foreigners come & go. They stay here 2/3 years and leave. I can say for my self, when I arrived here 18 years ago I had many western friends, but they all left and I bascally got fed up of making new friends every couple of years. So I gave up. We, my daughter & I have Qatari friends and they have been so for the past 10 to 18 years. This gives us roots here and a sense of belonging. My daughter feels she is part Qatari, speaks like a Qatari and has known her friends since she was in KG, all thru schooling and still now that they have all gone off to different universities, they remain in contact. But then again, we adapted to their life style/culture/way of living. So I can only recommend; if you want to be friends with Qataries, make the effort of relating to them on their level. It is worth it, cos they are the most hospitable, kind and generous people I know.
Aisha-Taweela
just a steady stream over the next twenty years or so of the type of people they want. To us that might mean engineers, teachers, medical professionals etc to them it might mean something else... anyway its not going to happen.
They currently give out about 50 passports a year and its tough. Not going to change, so...
There is no 'balance', brit. Qatar is as imbalanced as can be.
Theer are 300k Qataris and around 800k Expats. Giving citizenship would tilt the balance of power and also change the cultural aspects of the society. It just isn't feasible.
petro dollars run out is to integrate expats into the society by giving them citizenship. That way they will have loyalty to the country and some some stake in seeing it have a good future. (At the moment its take the money and run)
I realise politically its suicide at the moment to even suggest this in the government but unless they can magically make a million Qataris to do all sorts of jobs not just 'management' roles the long term future of the company is not secure.
Clearly the law and rules of Qatar have their roots in Islam. In its time and with the lmited scientific knowledge available when they were formulated, they served their societies very well. Those societies initially prospered and are now prospering again. A lot of the laws and rules in the UK have their roots in Christianity.
I agree that Islam is quoted a little too much in our everyday dealings but that is because things are changing very fast for the average local and so when he encounters something he can't explain, it's easy and convenient to refer to a related omnipotent quote that we as mere mortals are unqualified to challenge and so must accept.
That's the way things are here right now. We gotta deal with it.
I'm not sure what you mean by expatirates "abusive freedom". Hey it sounds decadent. Where can I get some?
PK
britexat got sucked-in by mayamkhob
PK
i-moody was describing a social problem.
PK
Only on a bigger scope, that is.
When the master is out, the teaboy does something for his own 'worthwhile'.
Also, this 'teaboy' is the common conspirer who denoted the term 'the masters are arrogant'...because the 'teaboy' can spread the hate, razzle some conflicts with other 'co-workers', until he's the only one left out with the 'benefits'.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
canarybird, an immigrant in Germany is not forced to change his religion (Mosques are built everywhere), he is not forced to change his lifestyle habits (Turkish and other Eastern shops are everywhere), the only thing he has to obey is the Constitution, the legal system of rights and obligations of a citizen. Within that frame he is free to do what he wants. In some cases he will be confronted with 'democratic' laws opposing the 'undemocratic' laws of his country of origin. In this case he has to choose. If he comes to Germany he comes to a 'democratic' country. Now, what says the constitution of Qatar? "Everybody is equal before the law." (Copied from many Western constitutions, by the way). Does the government guarantee this 'constitutional' right? No! As long as companies can do what they do (as mentioned by someone earlier), the government fails to implement the constitution. In other words: the constitution is not worth the paper it is written on!
The old saying goes East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet.
Integration for anyone who works in a foreign country is difficult especially if the culture is different. There are customs and traditions to get used to and moreover if it is a multicultural environment such as here in Qatar there are great differences (see labour and white collar workers), this will take time.
How many ex-pats want a maid/nanny/babysitter/driver/cleaner for a hunger loan? How many construction companies employ their labourers for a hunger loan and stick them in commercial prisons in the industrial area, but others all want to have a good home for very little money?
Everyone is responsible for integration not just the guest country you live in, but YOU yourself - integration starts in the mind of each and everyone of us by learning to adjust to new policies, lifestyles, people and religeons - learing to respect them all.!!!!
heero, then the Qatari government is not a government, because if what you say is the case, then they cannot control their people.
It's the people below them that makes the show-off for the Qatari government to get impressed and offer them 'benefits' with their 'televised' names...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
You're right. I am looking forward to it..
I think Hamilton has got it sewn up.. I don't like him, but can't see him erring..
There's also Spurs against Liverpool..
You point out the common problems and blame it on the country as a whole. I'm just digging deeper and not go up to the Qatar Law as I'm trying to find where the root of all the usual problems came from.
I didn't even get what you wanna say in the second paragraph before I get to answer that.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Well said, askme. The Qatari Government even speaks sweetly about Human Rights and gets awarded by the UN. The reality looks ... ???
hi...heero_yuy2 I don't support your logic.. what ever is happening is happening in Qatar and under Qatar government and under Qatar Law... and same government talk about integration... sorry first stop double standards- in this information age you cannot cheat people by just nice words when your action is just opposite. Action speak loud...
Can I ask why so many Arabs(I don't know about Qatari), Asians and Africans leaving their countries and taking Canadian, Australian, UK and USA PR and passport?
And most funny thing is that same people comeback and work in these Arab countries they are paid 10 times more than their counterparts from Pakistan, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, why?
Hi, brit. Don't forget also that this weekend is the most important for 'us'. The last race of the season in F1 this weekend!(Sunday 8 pm local Qatar time)
This is indeed the key issue..
However, IMHO Qatar follows the correct policy. WE all come here on a "contract" to perform jobs. Pure and simple..
Maybe I was not clear enough, as long as an immigrant cannot become a citizen there is no reason for him to support 'his' country (it's not 'his' country). He will just suck as much as he can and leave.
Place where people are judged by PASSPORT, paid salaries for same work according to nationalities
It's not the Qatar government who 'upholds' this, it's the administrators of the company employer who makes all this crappy 'racial' stuff that degrades one's perspective of Qatar.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
You are right what you said...
As far as integration is concern, it is not going to work in Qatar unless they are willing to treat everyone equally which will not going to happen, sure not in close near future (Place where people are judged by PASSPORT, paid salaries for same work according to nationalities, what you expect? Integration???
To create integration you need to create just and equal Qatari society which needs lots of sacrifice which Qatari have to learn to live with... I think this is dream than reality in any ARAB world... (not in QATAR only)
The main obstacle for integration is the fact that citizenship is not granted. The USA as a 'melting pot' grant US citizenship to immigrants, Germany grants German citizenship. No wonder, that integration works in these countries. It will never work in Qatar as long as citizenship is denied!
There are a lot of immigrants who are willing to integrate. I've lived in the UK for donkey years and I've seen how immigrants there integrate in the British society and ALSO how the Brits enjoyed integrating with the immigrants.
That's because UK is a free country. Qatar is an Islamic country. People'll not be willing to 'integrate' that easily to a society where expatriates are a bit limited according to rules based on such religion.
But I'd like to say that the 'rules' around here play a big part to helping expatriates limit their abusive freedom and may probably strenghten one's morality and non-racial cultural diversity.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
There are a lot of immigrants who are willing to integrate. I've lived in the UK for donkey years and I've seen how immigrants there integrate in the British society and ALSO how the Brits enjoyed integrating with the immigrants.
And yes this topic turned into Islamic reference because I am a Muslim and I can only say things that my Religion has taught me about equality. I was raising the point that we are all equal in God's eyes.
Brit, I agree with you that some of us are here for the money and are not willing to integrate. But I thought the welcome should come first from the host.I thought a society is a macro version of any business organisation. If as a boss you don't welcome your employee, you have already created some kind of fear in that employee to ever try to integrate with you. But if your welcome is warm, the reverse will be true.
And Brit, like you I do have a couple of friends. I guess it's all down to your inter personal skills at the end of the day.
For some unknown reason, I hate the sound of the word "INTEGRATE", sounds more like some Narcissist telling you that his world is so perfect and Draconian.
“Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful,”
Well said. I hope expats will become more integrated into society, but I think that will take some time. As a western female I have been in Qatari homes (women's section, of course) and did not feel particularly welcomed. Part of that was the language barrier, but it was more than that.
Can't seem to understand how a discussion about expatriates integration to this country suddenly make a turn into an Islamic reference then also turned into racial equality...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
As far as I am aware ALL religions including Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism and even Buddhism are against this sort of thing..
Its strange and a pity that many people(speaking about Muslims) show racism in many ways, though Islam prohibited it.
Existence is a heavy burden, only high spirited ones can bear it.
I believe anywhere around the world, a visitor/immigrant/expatriate will never wanna 'integrate' to a country's society that easily...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Great sentiments, but I personally have had no problems with Qataris. On the whole, I have found them genial and courteous. Yes, there are a few excepetions, but that is true all over the world.
It works both ways remember. How many expats actually want to "Integrate" within the Qatari society. Not many I would fear. Most are here to earn money, have a reasonably good time, build a home in their country and go back..
If only it were that simple.....strange, the autopsy thing....