Western Expats, What have you learnt from being in Qatar

If you're talking to me Tendai, no I don't hate anyone. I may not always be the nicest person and I may have a big mouth sometimes, but I don't hold a grudge and I don't hate anyone.

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Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse

It's ok to just be mad at the world. Its not all bad. Don't they say angry sex is the best kind!

Wanna get laid? Crawl up a chicken's bum and wait.

Ballzizm.

..a post is, its just a matter of time before that same author posts something even more spectacularly stupid.

I've also learnt never to under-estimate the dogged determination of an idiot to outdo themself.

Wanna get laid? Crawl up a chicken's bum and wait. No pregnancy, no abortion.

Ballzizm.

I don't hate everyone and everybody Hussnamf. Sorry if I've given that impression. :(

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I learnt that Americans and Canadians really dont like each other, its not just in south park! hehehe

I have learnt Gipsy hates everybody and everyone,,possiblly most of all herself!

I have learnt that Americans are either super smart or super ehmmmm " simple minded " 2 be polite:)

I have learnt that some people find it ok to feel morally superior 2 all others , and people like these certainly would vote for someone like Bush..and therfore, there is no hope for the world!looooool

last but not least, i learnt that wise ppl speak bec they have something 2 say, fools speak bec they have 2 say something :)

http://hasous.spaces.live.com

"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat

...obviously know nothing about Gypsy. Lets see here, you are Canadian and you live in Qatar, yet you know all about the US and their secret abuse of Mexicans. It must not be too secret or the doors must be very thin as you and everyone else knows about the immigration problems in the US. But that is not dramatic enough for you, because there always needs to be a US plot to really put things in perspective. Just take a moment and consider, or how about research, the two situations you are comparing and likening to each other.

1. Qatar legally brings third country nationals (TCNs) here to do just about everything. These TCNs, for the most part, find out about Qatar through family, friends, and or answer labor bulletins and come here through a sponsor (i.e. LEGALLY). Once the TCNs arrive, depending on their nationality, gender, and/or will to express themselves, are mostly treated with little respect and suffer verbal and physical abuse from their employers and sometimes their customers. Can anyone read anywhere about how well TCNs are treated in Qatar? What Qatari government sanctioned data source can I find out about the immigration problems in Qatar? Or about how Filipina nannies or waitresses are kept in the country and forced to do things better left unsaid on this site.

How does that compare to:

2. Mexicans who ILLEGALLY enter the U.S. and seek employment, because their country cannot provide jobs and/or adequate wages for them. They live in the U.S. just as they would, and in most cases better, than in their home nation. If a employer of immigrants, LEGALLY or ILLEGALLY in the U.S., abuses his/her employees he/she will be prosecuted and punished as if the immigrants were American citizens. There are political elements in the U.S. government that are currently fighting for the status illegal immigrants and the U.S. affords them significant rights even though they are not citizens and are in the U.S. ILLEGALLY. Anyone can read about this or turn on their TV and hear about it. Its no secret and it is not behind closed doors as it is here in Qatar.

How are these things even remotely similar Gypsy? Are you just being spiteful against the U.S., as you are spiteful towards any religion, just for the sake of being spiteful?

This thread isn't even about the U.S. or Qatar and its immigration laws (or lack thereof) and I apologize for going off on a tangent with Gypsy. It just irritates me that somehow someone always finds a reason to blame the U.S. for something.

Yes, and let us please remember all those Mexicans that live in the same condition in the US. Lets look down on Qatar for doing something openly that the US does behind closed doors.

:P

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I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.

And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.

And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.

‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

Honestly the saddest part is seeing all of the workers bust their a$$ just to remain in poverty. Qatar is making improvements but still has a long way to go. I like progress being made with women's rights. Unfortunatly the crap I read on www.qatarsucks.com is hard to ignore. I often feel that I've truly been blessed to have been born on the land of the USA, but don't forget we are all humans and have to share this Earth.

I've learned the true meaning of hypocrisy, classism and racism.

I've learned a deeper spirtuality in my self by learning about and rejecting all religions.

I've learned what luxury means, and what excess means, and what poverty means.

I've learned that 25 degrees is cold.

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Before I came here I was naive.

Now I have discovered an appreciation of what the Israelis are facing and the need to forget my Christian values when dealing with certain non Christians because it is neither appreciated or respected.

I am certainly going to be standing up for my rights and beliefs a lot stronger. For example - I will wish whoever I like "Merry Christmas" etc at the appropriate time, and if they have a problem with that, then it is THEIR problem. I will also wish Eid Mubarak etc, but I will celebrate my own more openly.

Some may have issues with how I feel but this is how I feel and what I will take from here.

PS. White Australians do not like their daughters marrying anything but fellow Aussies from similar backgrounds (ex Brit criminals, Greeks, Lebanese etc). Sure don't like them dating Kiwis either...

You totally sum up the situation here nice one, I agree with you opinions on the Locals. I think the most disappointing thing about coming here is the complete lack of any connection between us and them. Except as you have mentioned in the cars.

As for Doha well its OK isn't it ?

...that I have met many wonderful people in Doha. Sometimes, it's easy to forget all the good that's around you when you've just had your wits scared out of you. For me, there has been, by far, more good than bad in my time in Qatar.

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I don't have to be #1, I just have to be...

Any tool can be a hammer...

Have you traveled around the Mid East Jack?

If you had you would have noticed there are both Christians and Muslims in the Middle East.

You would haven noticed the diversity and difference's throughout the Middle East....such as in Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Morocco, The Gulf, Egypt…they are so different from one another. In Yemen, the women are fully covered where as is you go to the Lebanon you will find woman wearing next to nothing!

If you can grow grass & gardens in the desert Man you can do anything.

I can easily compare it to the hanging Gardens of Babylon.

And its a sight to drive next to these being watered by sprinklers early in the morning.

But the sad thing is finding out that there is no unity among the Arabs. I mean they speak the same language (in so many countries). They have the same religion. They have similar traditions, similar customs. They have similar government. Yet for one the other is "Lebanese", "Jordani", "Philistini", "Egyptian", etc and they have some grudge against the other. Yet for an outsider you guys are all Arabs.

Compare it with India - Each state has its own official language (not understood by the other). Almost all religions in the world are practiced there. The Lifestyle vary a lot eg:woman can be in a Bikini or topless on the beaches of Goa but will have to cover their faces or heads in certain parts of the country. Food vary a lot from the north of India to the south from the east of India to the west of India.

India & Pakistan govt. are at war on Kashmir (similar to Israel & Palestine) yet here the Indian people and the Pakistan people get on well.

Yeap, I know all about the Australian's mentality.....it's because most have never traveled outside of Oz and still claim they know everything..LOL....the western media feeds them lies that they believe, such as "evil Arabs"; a corrupt government, who hopefully will be kicked out in November.....let me speak to the parents, I'll sort them out :p...honestly, people like that should be forced to come to the Middle East...they would be shocked how wonderful it is...

Well Ginner,

i have 2 say i agree with you in most of what u said, and find that ur experience in Doha ( and life ) is very simmilar to mine...

Lisa, i also appreciate ur comment and can relate 2 it fully...

In myhumble experience, Humans are mostly so increadiblly vien in believing that thier life style and thier way is the ONLY WAY to go...

Those of us who can some how accomedate the idea that different lives and cultures come with a baggage of advantages and disadvantages unique to that cultur and wayof living tend to have a fuller life and a mature accepting attitude ( in my openion at least )

Ginner, i really liked what u said about how opposing views to ours no matter how silly they are are as vaild as our own...

its a hard fact to swollow, and God knows i struggeled with that a lot earlier on in my life ( and still do to an extent )..

But the fact stands, NO ONE WANTS TO BE STUPID OR RIDICILOUS...

Any one who has an openion/religion/view point/understanding of life , has it bec they believe it is righ and true...and that applies to all of us...

No one who believes that what they are thinking/doing is wrong will continue 2 do it/think it...and if they do , its bec they cant find strengh to change, which is a condition all humanity shares ( but rarely accepts )...

i find all ur responses very intresting and educational...

for those who mentioned wasta , is there absoultely no Parrallel to that in the west?

i mean, dont u have " friend" in the DMV who fix ur tickets everynow and then?

or someone who gets u " insider " info on stock excahnge deals etc?

just wondering...

http://hasous.spaces.live.com

"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat

No, it is not like that. It is much better when compare to India & Pakistan or Phill.

Just work, family & Friends. Yes, Waasta is there but again it is how you take it. If you know some one very powerful in his seat and can you something for you, you will definetely take it from him.

So I dont call it Waasta but good friendship. And if today if you get a good local who can do things in a much easier way, you will take it from him or no? Then others should not say that you have Wassta right??

I really like what you said. But unfortunately, it's being said here, where us as people living in Qatar or expats in Qatar are thinking the same but its not reaching the Western World. The same image they are getting about us as Middle Easterns or 'ARABS' will remain the same.

I will give you an example, I have an Australian girlfriend whos just been in the Middle East or Doha for 7 weeks. Her parents simply hate me coz they heard back in Australia, that Arabs are not good people. 'DO NOT DATE THEM', and thats just a small example.

The way Arabs are treated in European or Western Airports upon entering the country...WOW....We are being looked at as animals!!

I need to apply for a Visa to UK or USA well in advance of my flight date..This is if I get the Visa... But a British National or an American can simply come into my country with a visa upon arrival. Ofcource thats all politics and stuff, But when will the image of Arabs/Middle Easterns change in the West?

Somebody has already said that no matter where you go and live you learn something and I have to agree with that. Any country I've lived in had some sort of impact on me and Qatar is no exception although I usually say that Qatar is bringing the worst out of me and I'm not sure that's totally a joke …

I tend to disregard stereotypes and try to make up my mind about people/places based on hands on experience. I think human beings are generally afraid of differences, the unknown … scary!!! The more you experience things, specially if far away from what you are used to, the more your mind opens and the less "scared" you become. Qatar has definitely added something to my life, the full extent of which I'll probably figure out in the years to come.

Well done Hussamf! An interesting thread after long time : )

Alexa is right. Dive in and make the most of it.

Can't think of any exact do's and don'ts off the top of my head. Since you have been in this region you have some idea of what it is like.

If you or your wife have any specific questions you are welcome to PM me and I will try to answer for you. I was only in Doha for two weeks but my husband has been there since September. Plus, 7 years in Saudi. Doha is a cake walk compared to that.

One big thing is to only use the Karwa taxis if you need a cab. I do have the number of a private driver if you would be interested. I used him while I was there and he was excellent. Good driver and he knew his way around Doha very well.

Hope you guys enjoy your stay in Doha.

Lisa

I’m a (white) English ex-pat. Fairly well traveled, I’ve been to about 45 countries (some of them 20 or 30 times), though all in Europe, Africa and North America (prior to visiting the Middle East). Anyway, as I hadn’t visited any vastly different cultures before I came here, there were plenty of culture shocks.

I learned how to drive very badly (corrupting all that I had learned some 13 years ago), took those new skills home with me on a couple of holidays – caused some chaos, and then learned how to driver safer in every country in the world. I think it was a period of adjustment.

I learned a lot about patience. I thought I had mastered that before, but things here can be so different from my past life experience, it took some extra patience and understanding. What’s more, getting exasperated here doesn’t help any, so being chilled is good for the soul! Here’s a key thing that I’ve learned it’s been life-changing – I’d like to share it with you (all readers) for your own benefit. This is gold dust….

Somebody’s opinion (or actions) may completely defy all logic (in your opinion) and you may rave about how mad/crazy/stupid they are. The fact is, that their opinion is equally as valid as yours, even if you cannot understand or agree with it. Now if you can get that logic inside your head, and really believe it, you’re level of understanding will be much bigger, your frustrations much lower and your life much calmer. I learned it from experience, and also from an amazing training course from a professional trainer, who challenged many thought processes and explained how we react to situations based upon our lifetime of experiences. I tell you what, my life has been better for it. I still occasionally get frustrated by other people’s actions, but far less often.

I’ve learned to be satisfied with less to do. Okay, optimistic will tell you there’s lots to do in Qatar, but just as many people will tell you there’s very little to do. Quite simply, after living in London (UK) for 5 years, Doha is very lacking in excitement. True, you have to try harder and search harder for thrills. I’m NOT opening a debate on what there is to do in Doha, that would go against the reason for this post. I’m merely sharing my experiences.

I’d like to say that I’ve got to know and to get on with Qatari’s. That’s probably what you’d like to hear too. However, I’ve had very little opportunity to converse with Qatari nationals, therefore my main interaction with them has been on the roads. Need I say more. I am open minded and intelligent (so as not to assume bad things about people without getting to know them, and not generalizing), but this negative experience of encountering dangerous driving, and being on the receiving end of racism from Qatari nationals, has not helped me to build a fond image of local people. Can I speak this freely here in Qatar? Hmm.

I didn’t learn too much about other nationalities, the UK is very diverse anyway, so I’d had plenty of exposure to that.

I did gain a deeper understanding of Islamic lifestyle and principles – man, you’d hope that a person would learn more if living in a Muslim country.

I also learned that the Western media portray a false image of ‘the Middle East’, or the MidEast as the Americans annoyingly call it. They definitely like to keep the ‘Them and Us’ feeling going on – and make out that the middle east is unstable, dangerous, and oppressive. It serves Western governments well, even if they’ll never admit it. Even the more free thinking and liberal countries of this world have propaganda in the press – it just takes an intelligent eye to spot it – think about who’s influencing what’s being reported and listen carefully to how it’s phrased.

There’s probably lots more I could say, but that’s plenty for now. I’d appreciate other people’s reflections (NOT CRITICISM) of what I’ve said, particularly Hussamf who sarted the post.

Great to hear these comments. I am a first timer coming to Qatar in August and have only been to the region once for a month in 2005. What's a quick list of expat advice (do's and don't's) for my wife and myself?

The main thing I learned is patience. We live such a fastpace life in the US but you cannot do that in the Middle East. Well, not quite. You have to be patient with the traffic, the store clerks (I don't speak their language and at least they are trying to speak mine!). Also, attitude is so important. I learned that quickly the first time we went to Saudi Arabia. I had to have a good attitude and make the best of my situation. Saudi was our first overseas assignment (baptism by fire). In the end our time there was very enjoyable for the most part. It couldn't have been that bad because we went back for another 4 years.

I was in Doha for two weeks this month. I was visiting my husband and checking things out (schools, shopping, medical, etc.) before I move there later this year. I really enjoyed it. Needless to say much, much better then Saudi. Granted I was only there for two weeks, but I had a good feeling while I was there.

As hard as it has been to move our children from pillar to post - I think they have truly benefited from their experiences. They don't stereotype people because of thier race, culture or religion. This is the most important thing of all. I feel it has made them better human beings.

So what have I learnt from being in Qatar?

Fear the LandCruiser (or escalade or cayenne etc)

Turning signals will just confuse others

If you don't live near a roundabout you will never get a pizza deleivered

Advertised speed limits are merely advisory, the real speed limit is as fast as your car will go (although you must pass all radars at at least 20km under the sl*g*)

If you are polite you will be ignored, if you cause a scene you will be dealt with immedietly.

If you don't know how to get to a place don't use a Karwa taxi because they don't either!

If you are driving a Toyota Hilux with something precariously balanced on the back you should alway use the Middle lane

Pavements are for parking on not walking on

Seriously, I know I'm being flip here. I have to say the main thing I've learnt here is that people, no matter where they're from and what their background are pretty much the same. SOme are wonderful, some are A@$&*$s. I've also learnt that sometimes you've just got to accept that things are the way they are, you don't have to like it, but sometimes its just out of your hands.

In terms of culture, I've found qatar to be an interesting experience, its a real mix and if you come here with an open mind and a modicum of tolerence its a pretty nice place to live!! (crazy driving not withstanding!)

you explained it very well ...

I guess it's a bit like having some 'clout' in old fashioned northern terminology.

Think of something along the lines of clout crossed with a bit of 'old school tie', 'old boys' network' and 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours', connections, networks, knowing someone in a position of power who can either make something happen or make something go away.

In China the equivalent is known as guanxi so I know the concept well.

wasta means 'connection', if you know the right person you can by pass the law and red tape :-)

WQhat is a wasta?

as far as you have the right 'wasta' ..., you can get away with anything and everything :-)

...speak for myself, but I learn a lot no matter where I am. In some respects, Doha looks much like a typical western city.

Western cities seem to be constrained by rules...rules for everything. Here, the only rules seem to be made up as we go along, and only apply to some of the people.

This applies to everything; driving, smoking, dress, drinking...exceptions are everywhere. As soon as people see one person break a rule, everybody is doing it.

That's the most obvious thing to me.

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I don't have to be #1, I just have to be...

Any tool can be a hammer...

One thing I've learnt is how different Arab countries are to each other. Back home, someone mentions the Middle East and they generalize by thinking it's the same in every Middle Eastern country.

I guess I've been living in the Middle East for so many years now, that I've adapted to this lifestyle. One other thing I've learnt is how important family is. It's so nice seeing family spending so much time with each other in Doha!