Tools for repression'
The British Government has been heavily criticised for allowing arms sales to a number of Arab governments that have cracked down on pro-democracy protests in recent weeks, killing scores of people and injuring thousands more in demonstrations across the region.
Since it came into office the Government has granted permission for weapons sales to countries across the Middle East and North Africa, including a licence for weapon-makers to sell tear gas to the Bahrain administration. The Government also sanctioned sales of crowd control ammunition to Libya, combat helicopters to Algeria and armoured personnel carriers to Saudi Arabia.
A Department for Business report on weapons exports, published in the third quarter of last year, gave the green light to British arms manufacturers to sell a number of crowd control products to the Bahrain government, including "CS hand grenades, demolition charges, smoke canisters and thunderflashes".
The approval came during elections in Bahrain, which were mired by a crackdown on Shia opposition groups.
In the past two days, at least four people have been killed and 231 injured in protests aimed at overthrowing the deeply unpopular administration in the tiny Gulf state. Asked an emergency question in the House of Commons on the subject yesterday, Foreign Secretary William Hague urged restraint in Bahrain and urged Britons to stay away. He expressed the government's 'great concern' at events there but did not directly address former Labour Foreign Office minister Denis MacShane's question, which asked whether the government would ban weapon sales to Bahrain and other countries in the region.
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A non - sequitur. Please focus on following the thread.
example please?
And you are arguing based on his "claims “and still haven't touched My example of Osama and his US backing, There is no cure for your stupidity , and why don’t you learn some more jokes other than the much used and expired "pope" one, You would say anything to save a sinking argument , even fabricate new words! Besides have you any Idea about the original thread and where you are leading it with your fabrications, look for some one else to practice your own personal explanations of events and words, I have better thing in Life than carry on with your pointless banter on this thread!
Yes - he wasnt backed by the West and point 7 support this as the US blocked investigation by UN in his 2004 ouisting, where Artistide claims he was kidnapped by US forces and exiled to S Africa.
What wrong with you Polkdots?? Its becoming ever so clear that you a living example for the sucess of the Pope's work.
"You keep them dumb, and I'll keep them poor, said the king to the pope
Still waiting.
LOL,Dodgy are you even reading your own posts?????
You start a post saying"No he wasnt back by the West. Here are some facts to back this up."
Goes on to list this as point number 7"The US blocked efforts by CARICOM and the African Union for an official investigation by the UN into the circumstance of Aristide’s ouster in 2004 (i.e his allegations against Washington and Paris)and to my question "Why so, if the US were totally innocent as you claim?"Gives this answer!!!"did I?? Polkadot - you're not keeping up and you game is falling apart."
LOL, you sure are a joke dude and I am not playing any games are you, BTW What is your source for this explanation, your own or dictionary?:Undemoctaric struggle - the ousting of democractically elected govts and the dismantling of democratic institutions. Example - Haiti.
This is what the Dictionary says :-)"You are seeing Ask web results for undemocratic struggle because there was not a match on Dictionary.com."
Don't invent words and phrases to win an argument, and personal attack when you are depleted of reasonable argument is a sure sign of failure, grow up!
"Why so, if the US were totally innocent as you claim?"
did I?? Polkadot - you're not keeping up and you game is falling apart.
Undemoctaric struggle - the ousting of democractically elected govts and the dismantling of democratic institutions. Example - Haiti.
Can you please reciprocate? Do you have it within you?
Example?Please read all of my above posts. BTW, Still waiting your clarification on "UNDEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE".
7) The US blocked efforts by CARICOM and the African Union for an official investigation by the UN into the circumstance of Aristide’s ouster in 2004 (i.e his allegations against Washington and Paris)
Why so, if the US were totally innocent as you claim?
polkadots - still waiting for your example.
"You keep them dumb, and I'll keep them poor, said the king to the pope
No he wasnt back by the West. Here are some facts to back this up.
1) Decades of US funding for the monstrous Duvalier dictatorships
2) Emmanuel Constant, a FRAPH death squad leader involved in the first coup to oust Aristide in 1991, was on the CIA payroll and lived freely for years in the New York while the US government refused to deport him to Haiti to face justice.
3) US troops stole thousands of documents from FRAPH offices in 1994 and refused to return them to Haiti because they named US citizens who collaborated with them.
4) The Clinton administration insisted that Haitian military guilty of grave human rights abuses after the 1991 coup retain strongholds in Aristide’s security forces after he was restored.
5) The US government spent $70 million through its “democracy promotion” agencies after 1994 in a deliberate effort to strengthen Aristide’s political opponents.
6) A US led economic sanctions blocked hundreds of millions of dollars from Aristide’s second elected government between the years 2000-2004.
7) The US blocked efforts by CARICOM and the African Union for an official investigation by the UN into the circumstance of Aristide’s ouster in 2004 (i.e his allegations against Washington and Paris)
8) About 4000 political killings took place under the US funded Latortue dictatorship of 2004-2006 according to scientific survey in the Lancet Medical Journal – almost all perpetrated by the regime’s security forces and its armed allies
Not just Aristide , So was Osama bin Ladden...a US puppet till he turned the tables.
I'm sorry, but i don't understand the point you're trying to make..
Aristide was backed by the West , but lost his usefulness and was ousted.
Yes, USA and UK are the biggest arms exporters, with Russia and France (spit) being in the frame also.
Before I get to the final "proof’ of the backer and motive for all struggles which I suspect the world community ever has, all we have is circumstantial evidence, Democracy means the will of the people. It was the will of the people to select him them and over throw him [unless he won through malpractice], Twice! Now why did the will of the people change twice in a row , I cannot fathom, may be the president was given a second chance after his first ousting and subsequent campaigning and promises but then turned out to be the same old wine in a new bottle. But each time the people turned against him and over threw him out by a majority the struggle was “Democratic”. But you still have not explained an “undemocratic struggle”, led by the majority of the people of a country!
Polkadots - you ask "what is "undemocractic"struggle"
The best explanation is through example. i'll give you one - Haiti - the ousting of a democratically elected President Jean-Bertrand Aristide - TWICE!!!
As US is the biggest arms exporter overall and with the UK being the biggest for the years 2007 and 08, can you provide me with an example to justify your claim "where It's easier to count which all revolutions/'democratic struggles' are not backed by an arms dealer!" ??????
"You keep them dumb, and I'll keep them poor, said the king to the pope"
Dodgy , what is "undemocractic"struggle?There are only two sides in a struggle, The people revolting and the poeple being revolted against,all the rest are the names these pple call each other.
Briexpat - a non sequitur. That doesnt follow.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near tannhauser gate.
I have seen the end of the Vietnam war and the landing on the moon.
I have seen the rise and fall of the Soviet Union and the destruction of Iraq.
I have seen Michael Foot become the leader of the Labour Party and Sarah Palin a star.
I have seen Debbie Does Dallas and United beat City.
Sadly, all those moments will be lost in time,like tears in rain.
"It's easier to count which all revolutions/'democratic struggles' are not backed by an arms dealer!"
revolutions or counter revolutions?? Democratic struggles or undemocractic struggles??
"The reality is that all politicians are liars"
Ahhh - and why might that be?? Representative "democracy"?? Representing who?? Anything to do with the current economic system we have??? Have you taken a look at the world??
/at/ Brite,True, something like the sale of drugs, you get it for free first,once hooked on ,that's when the money rolls.
Dodgy ,It's easier to count which all revolutions/'democratic struggles' are not backed by an arms dealer!
You are a wise person. Look at history and look at the world around us.
The reality is that all politicians are liars.
"Politics and morals / ethics don't usually go together"
why not?? The partys claim to stand on moral platforms.
Politics and morals / ethics don't usually go together. This is true for ALL nations, not just the USA, UK or Australia.. (we'll leave out the French)
However sometimes governments do take measures to appease the public - as the British government has done in this case by revoking some licenses.
would you say examples that support your argument would be the US backing the MEK in Iran, the Contras in Nigaracua, the KLA in Kosovo, right wing paramilitary in Columbia and the right wing reactionary opposition in Venezuaela??
The profit motive??? You bet! Capitalism an ammoral system that has no conscious.
"It should either be a total ban or none at all..."
The excuse that if it isnt us, then it would be someelse is the same used by heroin dealers. Either it right or wrong. Is it right to sell arms to human rights abusers and those that conduct wars of aggression? Yes or no???
"It is nothing to do with democracy. It is more to do with "friendly" nations"
And its got nothing to do with freedom of speech, human rights, international law, peace, liberty, justice or moral decency.
All the things UK and US say thay stand for. So they say.
Having worked in the Armed Forces abroad, there is a much easier way.
First you give arms for free or at a very very low price. Then you charge exhorbitant rates for training, maintenance and upgrades..
Bit like buying Korean cars :O)
Sale of arms is a funny business, Firstly you sell arms and fill an unsuspecting country with it, Then you wait and watch for a mad man/ men to use it against each other. This gives an opportunity for the seller country to go "save" the other country and start an occupation, bleeding it's resources. Now throw in some oil in to the bargain and the curtain goes down. Applause!
it has more to do with business opportunities
We shall see for how long this 'cosy' relationship last...
It is nothing to do with democracy. It is more to do with "friendly" nations..
Will Whitehall sell any arms to North Korea or Iran ? I don't think so, the same criteria should be applied to non democratic Arab countries, but as usual Money talks.
The UK is a model of democracy and human rights for the whole world and it should remains so.
Whether we like it or not, the defence Department and weapons research facilities provide millions of jobs around the world.
In today's world, it is very difficult to be Moral when selling weapons to countries.
anyone will enlighten?
whats the best use of weapons for humanity?
'Dozens of licences for the export of arms to Bahrain have been revoked after a Foreign Office review amid fears over the suppression of protests there.
Some 24 individual licences and 20 open licences for Bahrain were revoked and eight individual licences for Libya
The minister, who said a review of export licences to the wider region, including Yemen, is ongoing, added: "This government takes extremely seriously its export control responsibilities.
"The longstanding British position is clear: We will not issue licences where we judge there is a clear risk that the proposed export might provoke or prolong regional or internal conflicts, or which might be used to facilitate internal repression." '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12502496
rdsouza
no one is blaming west, the simple fact is that, the role of some arabs puppets rulers has been finished, and now may be the masters want to assign their jobs to the new players.
It is really funny how people go to any extent to blame the west for each and every problem they have.
Well... they would have fought against the dictatorship even if they were still on camels and used their barbaric weapons like swords and arrows.
I agree, let it be someone else, but not the UK.
It should either be a total ban or none at all...
It's all too easy to look back in retrospect and blame the suppliers..
There will always be someone else to fill the gap left by the UK....