The Status of Jesus in Islam
Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus!
What will also surprise the christians is the fact that the Muslim does not take the holy name of Jesus, in his own language, without saying Eesa, alaihi assalam ("Jesus, peace be upon him").
Mention in the Quran
And that in the Holy Quran Jesus is mentioned twenty five times.
For example:
"We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit" The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 2,Verse 87
"O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary..." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 3, Verse 45
"...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god..." The Holy Qur'an ,Chapter 4,Verse 171
"...And in their foot steps we sent Jesus the son of Mary..." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 5, Verse 46
"And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 6, Verse 85
Other titles
Though Jesus is mentioned by name in twenty-five places in the Holy Quran, he is also addressed with respect as: Ibn Maryam, meaning "The son of Mary"; and as the Maseeh (in Hebrew it is the Messiah), which is translated as "Christ". He is also known as Abdullah, "The servant of Allah"; and as Rasul u Allah, the messenger of Allah. He is spoken of as "The Word of God", as "The Spirit of God", as a "Sign of God", and numerous other epithets of honor spread over fifteen different chapters. The Holy Quran honors this mighty messenger of God, and the Muslims have not fallen short over the past fourteen hundred years in doing the same. There is not a single disparaging remark in the entire Quran.
Eesa or Jesus?
The Holy Quran refers to Jesus as Eesa. Actually, his proper name was Eesa (Arabic), or Esau (Hebrew); classical Yeheshua, which the Christian nations of the West latinised as Jesus. Neither the "J" nor the second "s" in the name Jesus is to be found in the original tongue - they are not found in the Semitic languages. The word is very simply "E S A U" a very common Jewish name, used more than sixty times in the very first booklet alone of the Bible, in the part called "Genesis".
Mary Honored
The birth of Jesus Christ is described in two places of the Quran - chapter 3 and chapter 19. Reading from the beginning of his birth, we come across the story of Mary, and the esteemed position which she occupies in the House of Islam, before the actual annunciation of the birth of Jesus is given:
"'Behold'! the angels said: 'O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee, and chosen thee above the women of all nations" The Holy Qur'an ,Chapter 3,Verse 42
"Chosen thee above the women of all nations." Such an honor is not to be found given to Mary even in the Christian Bible! The verse continues:
"O Mary! Worship thy Lord devoutly: prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 3,Verse 43
There is a Chapter in the Holy Quran, named Surat u Maryam, (Chapter 19) "Chapter Mary", named in honor of Mary the mother of Jesus Christ, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him; again, such an honor is not to be found given to Mary in the Christian Bible. Out of the 66 books of the Protestants and 73 of the Roman Catholics, not one is named after Mary or her son. You will find books named after Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul and two score more obscure names, but not a single one is that of Mary!
If Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, was the author of the Holy Quran, then he would not have failed to include in it with Mary, the mother of Jesus, his own mother Aamina, his dear wife Khadija, or his beloved daughter Fatima. But No! No! This can never be. The Quran is not his handiwork!.
Divine Revelation
What is the source of this beautiful and sublime recitation which, in its original Arabic, moves men to ecstasy and tears? verse 44 below explains:
"This is part of the tidings, of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Muhammad!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 3, Verse 44
So neither Muhammad, the unlettered prophet nor his followers were aware of such tremendous and truthful information concerning all of the messengers, Mary, her mother, Zachariah and those who disputed with him regarding who would care for Mary. Nor were they aware of Zachariah winning charge of her after he had drawn lots with pens with his opponents. They did not know how Zachariah welcomed her and of who used to bring sustenance from God as a gift to her, which led Zachariah inspite of his old age and the barrenness of his wife to ask God to grant him righteous offspring. Neither Muhammad nor his followers were aware of this previously. It is not possible that you will be able to find such speech bearing the highest level of splendor and eloquence and which is nicely phrased and magnificiently presented in the Gospels or anywhere else. This shows that Prophet Muhammad did not speak of his own whims, but rather that it was revelation revealed to him by the Lord of all creations.
Miraculous Birth and absolving of Virgin Mary from slander
"Then We sent to her Our spirit, and he appeared before her in a form of a man in all respects." This refers to angel Gabriel. So at the time this (miraculous) event took place, this pure and chaste woman had set out to devote herself to worshipping God, and she had placed a screen in front of her for this purpose in order to protect her honor and chastity and so that she can establish her worship. Then lo and behold, a human that was well-proportioned in his form and beauty suddenly appeared before her. So she demonstrated the signs of her chastity and modesty in this instance, saying: "Verily, I seek refuge in the Most Gracious (Allaah) from you, if you do fear Allaah."
Then the noble messenger Gabriel gave her news that caused her fear to be removed and her heart to find tranquility: "I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son." So she replied in amazement: "How can I have a son when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste ?" So the angel informed her: "So it will be. Your Lord said: 'That it is easy for Me. And We wish to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us.'"
So this spirit blew (the life of Jesus) into her. So she conceived Jesus, and withdrew with the baby in her womb to a far away place. There she gave birth to her child and was faced with the problem that any chaste and honorable woman like her would feel, so she wished she was dead. Then there came that removed her fear and anxiety: "(The baby Jesus) cried out to her from below her, saying" 'Grieve not, your Lord has provided a water stream under you.'"
These were the signs and miracles that increased her reliance, tranquility and faith in the fact that God would protect her, demonstrate that she was free from any claims of fornication, and manifest her honor and nobility. So all she needed to do was to point to this infant that the slanderes used as a means to accuse her of fornication. This child said from the cradle: "Verily, I am a slave of Allaah. He has given me the scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I may be. And He has enjoined on me prayer and giving of charity for as long as i live. And (He has enjoined me) to be dutiful to my mother, and He has not made to be arrogant and wretched. And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I shall die, and the day I will be raised alive."
.... Adam also was born miraculously
Does the miraculous birth of Jesus make him a God or a "begotten" son of God? No! says the Holy Quran:
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah (God) is that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him: 'Be', and he was." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 3,Verse 59
If being born without a male parent entitles Jesus to being equated with God, then, Adam would have a greater right to such honor.
Crucified??
Contrary to Christian beliefs, Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified, but rather that someone else was made to resemble him and crucified instead of him. The Qur'an states that he was raised up to the heavens where he will await until the day when he will be sent back to earth towards the end of time. Allah says: "And because of their (Jews) saying boastfully: 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, Messenger of God.' But they killed him not nor did they crucify him, but rather the resemblance of Jesus was put in another man (and they killed that man). And those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge; they follow nothing but conjecture, for surely they killed him not. Rather, Allah raised him up (body and soul) unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, Most Wise. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (i.e. Jews and Christians), except that he will surely believe in Him (that he was really a messenger of God) before his (Jesus') death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 4,Verse 157-159
Descent of Jesus, Son of Mary
Jesus, son of Mary will be returning to this world before the Day of Resurrection. He will return to become a leader of the Muslim nation.
"And he (Jesus, son of Mary) shall be known sign for (the coming of) the Hour (Day of Resurrection). And follow Me (Allah) This is the Straight Path (of Islamic Monotheism, leading to Allah and to His Paradise)." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 43,Verse 61
The Prophet Muhammad has prophesised that Jesus will return and judge mankind with justice. He will descend by the white minaretin the east of Damascus, placing his hands upon the wings of two angels, and will fight against the Antichrist (Dajjaal) until he reaches the gate of Ludd (present-day Israel), where he will kill him.
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source: http://islam.thetruecall.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=23
Not that long ago, Imam, rabi and catholique priests prayed on a church.
I think the main problem are those ppl that like to say that their religion is better than the other ones but we all know that religion is something beautiful, to be the right one or not, only depends from each ones believes.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I agree with Amoud, generally this thread has stayed on topic and we(QL) have (for a change) been able to talk about things from different sides without it turning to ranting or people taking offence.
I know in the (far) past christian emmissary were even able to pray at mosques.
Rim: Thanks for such a post :)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
$!®@J Leave Every one to live in his own way Don post such a posts if u don know much about ur religion there is one thing coman in ur all the religion n that is Love humanity not to Fight Coz i m Muslim n my Islam Told me to Respect every singal religion in this world....
Not to hate the PPl.....
but U ppl Posting a bad image of ur religion By pointing others religion..... try to love every one.....
Rim, you are a few years off on your division of religions mate, it is closer to 1400 hundred years not 1700.
Another thing to point out is that we are not argueing :).
The Prophets Mohammed (PBUH) never coined the term "Mohammedism" and muslims in general do not like this term as Islam, not "Mohammedism" is the actual name of the religion. "Mohammedism" is placing the focus on the Prophet only, which is part of the Sunna but Islam is the submission to God, which is its literal meaning. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
There is no point of all these arguments, if we only care to trace the history and development of religion. Before christianity and mohammedanism developed into separate means of belief approximately 1700 years ago, men were ruled by Monarchists and Emperialists, that highthened during the Roman empire (700 BC to 1400 AD). Men were enslaved by rulers. Beliefs then centered more on deities and goddesses and were viewed as the only source of refuge against tyrannical rule, but the most dominant belief then was Judaism based on the five books of Moses (forerunner of the Old Testament), Judaism being a written account of the Abrahamic faith handed down from generations to generations. Judaism spouse belief in one true Supreme God not goddesses or deities.
However, schism always exist in every social order and religion since the great Egyptian civilization, but only Jesus and Mohammed stood to unify all beliefs amidst threats of persecution by Emperial rulers. Both preached righteouness, of being holy, as the only means of entering God's or Allah's Kingdom.
Neither Jesus nor Mohammed preached that their teachings be called "Christianity" or "Mohammedanism", for it was our schismist forefathers , the forebearers of our belief, who thrust this into our minds. Thus, what we have today, the most dominant faiths in this world, christianity and Islam, is the greatest schism that continues to devide what has been preached by the greatest of prophets as supremely indivisible, the Kingdom of God. Christians and Muslims, who were originally brothers in the faith of Abraham continues to argue over issues that are mundane, and so we perpetuate this great schism while professing our faith in one true God.
Both Jesus and Mohammed are "mediators" for our eternal salvation, so that whoever believes in their teachings, shall truly inherit the Kingdom of God.
Therefore, relative to the premise of this thread, both Jesus and Mohammed are men of equal status in both Christianity and Islam, only that we, our schismic mind, perpetuate this baseless division.
It is a duty of Islam to respect other religions as commanded by the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH).
As we muslims feel Islam is the path for us we hope that people would want to join Islam as if they can feel in their hearts what we feel we want this for all :), but we do recognize and respect other religions and their right to practise.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
This is a purely theological question, but as a religious person do you believe other religions 'exist', e.g vishnu, etc and you choose to follow islam/christianity or that the rest do not exist because there is only your deity?
May God bless all those who participate here!
Heres one for DMS to calm him a bit.
In Islam, The Prophet Jesus will be the one to kill the Masih Al Dajjal.
I agree that for some people filling in the "blanks" so to speak it was gets them through, and personally (here I go, adding something personal) it has helped me a great deal.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I may not be 'religious' but I do find the subject interesting. Science has predicted the very end - i.e when the sun collapses - but that is not to say that something 'spiritual' might occur before we get to that stage.
DMS calm down amoud has stayed on topic with various evidence and put it in a neutral way, i dont know why you are getting worked up.
Do you mean in Qatar DMS?? I have absolutely nothing to do with that.
We arent practising religion on this forum DMS, just comparing theories and interpretations, without a pecking order.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
DMS, amoud is not getting on to you, they just asking you to stay on topic.
just to make sure anyone can practice his/her belief freely and do congregational worshiping freely (that is, in my country). Is it too much to expect the same respect here?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
DMS.... you said this right?
"Anti-Christ, meaning against Christ. But exactly what is against Christ, it means teachings that don't follow what Christ has taught. Even those who preach a "different Christ" is anti-Christ. Those who preached that Christ is God is, IMHO, anti Christ because Christ is man, born, raised, died and resurrected as man. Those who preached that He did not die also contradict His teachings as written in the Bible. IMHO! No offense meant to others!"
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
but I did not say non-believing in Bible is anti-Christ. What I am saying is non-believing that Christ died and resurrected is anti-Christ based on Bible's teaching. But of course, I respect your belief based in Quran. No argument about that! There are a lot of commonalities between Bible and Quran. I am just specific about this "Christ resurrection" subject.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
DMS, I never insinuated you cant believe what you want, but you have indeed insinuated that if I dont believe in the bible I am an anti-christ.
I am not preaching Islam, I am giving Road facts from the religion, nothing more. I didnt even give an opinion on them did I?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
In Islam, Djinn are a creation, just as people and angels are. People were created from earth, angels from light and Djinn from fire. People have freedom of choice (as do Djinn, whom can be good and bad and from any faith) whereas angels can only obey the commands of God, hence there is no "fallen angel" in Islam.
The Dajjal has great explanation in Islam, I could write a book about it. It is said his name will be Abdulla son of Cyatid and that he will appear between Syria and Iraq and be of Jewish descent. I am not sure if he will be born but have not found any evidence he is Djinn.
One website gives his physical description, as narrated in various hadiths as "He will be blind in one eye, while his other will be like a "floating grape". He will be short, fat, hen-toed, crooked-legged, with black curly, woolly hair, and a ruddy complexion. He will have on his forehead, between his eyes, the word "kaffir", which any believer, literate or illiterate, can read"
I fond all of this extremely intersting, as you may tell :)
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
with all the thread about preaching Islam, I am surprised by your observation. It is only normal to state what is wrong to reveal the truth. But that is according to one's conviction. Maybe you are an exception. But freedom of religion includes respect and by respect, it means the freedom to practice (freely) what you believe in! Now tell me, Amoud, do we have that respect?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
DMS, you are missing something, for me to believe in my religion I do not have to post about others in a way that rings superiority. I have never added in any of my posts that Islam is better and that anyone who doesnt believe in the Quran is a heretic, this is what you are missing.
No one has asked if one is an anti-christ for not believing in the bible, nor has anyone asked what will save them come day of judgement.
You are posting negatives about other faiths, which I must say is not respect by any definition I have ever come across. ___________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
what amoud said really - wanted to know how the anti christ is described in different books not what 'anti-christ' means.
So is djall supposed to be a fallen angel like satan, hells guardian etc? Or something completly different?
Also exactly are djin, are they supposed to be fallen angles or are they humans that are possessed?
between you and us because our belief is based on the Bible and yours is Quran. We have different Jesus because you admitted that in Islam, Christ did not die, while to most of us, Christ did die and resurrected.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
putting IMHO I thought will not be offensive. Okay, remove the IMHO in my post and that is our belief. If you are offended, our Lord Christ is very much offended by those people who will preached a different Him as written in the Bible! Because the true belief in Him will be the sole reason who will be saved comes judgment day. As in you case, you have also your belief of who will be saved comes judgment day. I respect your belief, please respect mine!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I wasnt asking you not to react, I was asking you to not add your opinionated spice, he is asking for theology not personal feelings, as you have stated "IMHO".
By posting something which is opinion, and can be construed by people not of your faith as a bit of an insult as you are implying all people who do not believe in the crucifiction as "anti-christs"
This is the type of thing that makes constructive religious discussions turn ugly.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
you are the first to react on the "anti-Christ" issue and you want no one not to react?, I wonder why?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Road is not referring to the word, he is referring to "The Anti-Christ" which is completely differnt DMS, stop stirring things up.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Anti-Christ, meaning against Christ. But exactly what is against Christ, it means teachings that don't follow what Christ has taught. Even those who preach a "different Christ" is anti-Christ. Those who preached that Christ is God is, IMHO, anti Christ because Christ is man, born, raised, died and resurrected as man. Those who preached that He did not die also contradict His teachings as written in the Bible. IMHO! No offense meant to others!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Roadster, the Massih al - Dijjal ("One eyed Liar" ) will come to earth and proclaim he is a prophet and he will perform "false miracles" to make the people believe. the miracles are false as he will use Djinn to perform these miracles but the people will believe him and follow him.
The Prophet Issa (PBUH) will come back to earth for 40 years before the day of judgement and will descend on one of the minarets in the Ommayed mosque in Damascus. He will help in fighting this Dijjal to save mankind.
In catholicsm the concept of the anti-christ is very complex, adn even more so in Christianity as a whole. Some believe that there was already a Jewish Anti-Christ, some lutheran religions believe the papacy to be the anti-christ.
I am not clear on the Judaism side, I could Google it but perhaps someone with some understanding can shed some light? ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I understand exactly plato, if we all thought the same it would indeed be boring!
I would be interested going back to original topic especially as you have experience or catholicism and islam how the Antichrist (Dajjaal) is reported in both religions, also judaism if we have anyone can comment on that?
Lol, i should go pick her up in 5 or 6 weeks, waiting to regularize my marital status so embassy will give her visa, :)
I also like to discuss and even if people don't agree with me, that doesn't mean they are my enemies or that i don't respect them. :)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Wow Ayman, congradulations... Inshallah you will be posting that the missus is expecting :)
Thanks for the kind words, not many have this perception of me (and of PM as is evident of some recent events).
I like to discuss in this way but alas it always turns out in a heated argument. A few bad apples always spoil the lot.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Lol Amoud, almost 15 days ago :)
Now, back to topic, as a muslim, we need to show that Islam is also about love and tolerance :) You and PM were 2 persons that helped me to understand better Islam and to accept it :)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
True Ayman, alot of the time people post things because they either dont know or thats what they were told. I dont see any harm in it. As a muslim, I should try to be courteous as how I behave completely reflects upon me and my religion n'est pas?
BTW, whens the wedding, you havent said a word about it in ages :)
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Lol Road, i agree with you but it will depend the hability of people to debate this kind of subjects or in any words, that people don't confuse a debate with an attack to any religion.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Maybe in 100 years we can have a civil discussion about the profit muhammed ;)
Thats why...i was telling initially... lets agree on our disagreements... make sense.
Let us be what we are today, Muslims be Muslims, Christians be Christians and Jewish be Jewish...
Live life like there's no tomorrow, for
"Today is the Tomorrow you thought of Yesterday!"
you have a good point there although im muslim
You can start here, Amoud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#Testimonium_Flavianum
MD I will definately have to look that up, do you have any other sources for this as I am interested.
DMS, The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is the father of Islam, surely we hold him in a different light, just as Jesus (PBUH) is considered to be a savior as he will return to Earth before the day of judgement.
Each of them have different classifications and are revered for different things. I think if Muslims prayed for all the prophets we would be praying all day as it would take us an hour or more to perform one of our 5 daily prayers as Islam states there were over 124,000 prophets but only around 24 or 25 are recognized as being of the most importance to developing the religions (that includes Judaism and Christianity) of the world. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Gone through almost all comments and conversations since it seemed intersting as such.. Let me speak my knowledg about Islam..being a Muslim...
Islam is the only religion/faith delivered by God the almighty... He created man on heaven and sent to earth.Several prophets were sent by Allah..the Almighty to teach the human beings... Among them Adam,Yousuf,Nooh,Ibrahim,Ismail,Isaac,Mousa,Haroon,Easa all comes..All were prophets sent by Allah.. And they are were sent to different communities like to Hebrews,Jews etc.. Easa[PBUH] was sent to the Jews community...to spread Islam.
Several Holy books also were delivered by Allah..Injeel,Thorah,Quran..the first one sorry i forgot..
And the last book Quran is the only one existed without being overwritten or modified...
Bible is the overwritten/modified version of Injeel...
The last prophet was Mohammed..and for him Allah revealed Quran... And he was sent among the Arab Pagans.. and thus several embrassed Islam..
According to us,Jesus [Easa Alaissalam] will come again to earth at the time before Last judgement...Again to reveal his followers Islam..
Even for the Romans who occupied "Palestine" in those days he was a "trouble maker", worth to be mentioned by the Jewish-Roman Historian Josephus Flavius.
Well generally this thread shows that your to be able to compare and contrast how jesus is intrepreted, without resorting to criticism.
It shows though if you stay on topic, you can get interesting discussion.
I remember in religious studies at school, that they said there were reports that Jews had recorded reports on a 'troublemaker' which fitted Jesus description.
but sometimes, misunderstanding comes in because we are not use to the western slang language. Can we go straight english?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
if we prayin the name of our Lord, it is an instruction to us. We also don't confess to anyone.
But I heard the english translation of your prayers regarding your prophet and that's what I am saying as holding your prophet Muhammad higher than our Lord Jesus!
Isn't it true that you pray that Allah shower your prophet this and that..... I respect that. What I am pointing out is that it seems that prophet Muhammad is higher than our Lord Jesus by the way you honor him! Correct me if I am wrong! No offense meant!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
DMS, muslims bow and pray to no man, no matter his divinity. We dont need to confess our sins to a preist or Imam, and we are accountable to no one but God, so no you cant make the comparison actually. We pray to no one but God as what we do in our lives and how we live according to our beliefs are what is going to save us in the end. _____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Something just came to mind for DMS....
Alright, the bible is the word, and the only true scripture and the Quran is completely wrong correct? But who says so? It is your belief, i believe the opposite. does that make you more right than me? You can give me scriptures to prove it, and I can give you ayahs and hadiths to dispute it correct?
DMS, you cannot base what you say on "just because I said so". Just give some info, leave the rest behind. I dont need to bash any religion to explain mine.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
when you pray, you pray with your prophet Muhammad as it seems that He will be your savior. If we pray in Jesus name, because our faith is He is the Savior! That is why somebody asked above about the position of both on you as we only believe in Jesus and those who were mentioned in the Bible and not (with all due respect) to your prophet Muhammad.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Amoud, have no fear. Everything is allright.
You know MD, even if there is proof to support something, there are always conspiracy theories, disbeliefs in authenticity etc. All comes down to personal choice. It matters little to me what religion someone chooses, if I have different beliefs they are my own, not to be imposed on anyone else. forgive me if I come across this way but I am trying only to be an information source as best I can, in the end of the day I am not trying to make you believe what I believe. If you do, of course I am happy because my beliefs have given me a great deal of peace and hope some others can share in that, if not it doesnt change my perception or feelings toward anyone.
I am preaching about non-preaching lol, sorry all
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
The Jews don't believe that Jesus was the messenger predicted in the Torah. They believe they are still waiting for the Messiah.
There was a lot of discussion among the Jews if Jesus was the "Messenger" promised, Amoud. Jews are still waiting for him. But the Christians said, it was him. So, who is right??
Amoud, I don't "believe" in the "Big Bang" either. But it's a nice model to interpret our observations.
Gypsy, the Torah predicts the coming of the Messaih Jesus (PBUH) and knew of his birth. Doesnt make them Christians.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Obviously MD doesnt know this as truth DMS or he wouldnt be asking the questions he is asking. He would be right along there with the 65% of the worlds non-christian population.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
So in the end it's all up to "belief"! Unfortunately I don't believe even my own eyes.
Amoud if you just believed in Moses you would be Jewish, if you believe in Moses and Jesus you are Christian, if you believe in Moses, Jesus and Mohammed you are Muslim. These religions are determined by which prophets you do and don't believe in.
even DMS, citing the Qurans stance on The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) crucifixion does not prove the Bibles authenticity, and I do believe you were asked to prove he was desendant from David, which I think is geneology n'est pa?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
as truthfulness. If you can cite any prophesy in the Bible that written a long time ago that have not yet happened recently, please do me a favor. As I said, only the second coming has yet to be fulfilled!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Yes MD, I have read that also but have not really seen many sources to confirm this. I have read that he did indeed live with John the Baptist, who was his cousin.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I am talking about the authenticity of the holy book!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Amoud, "some resources" say that Jesus grew up among the Essenes, a group of esoteric people, and John the Baptist was one of them, too. These findings refer to the Qumran roles found in caves at the Dead Sea. Rituals and laws that were later part of Jesus' teaching are written down in those "Dead Sea Scrolls" which have been dated to 200 BC!
As I said MD, I never found anything credible enough to repeat, the only thing I have encountered about his pre-prophetic life was even remotely close to credible was that he was a shepard. The narration that he was a carpenter like Joseph (SAW) is weak.
Just posting out my findings, not saying one is right and one is wrong. As his life has so many gaps it is difficult to determine anything with a great deal of certainty.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I am talking about the authenticity of the holy book!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Ahh, Gypsy, muslims believe in Moses, and in Jesus, doesnt make them Jews or Christians :) Muslims also believe that Islam will sect out into 70 something divisions, doesnt make them followers of all. The Torah predicted the birth of the Prophet Jesus, didnt make them Christians.
DMS, what does the Quran stating the Prophet Jesus (PBUH) wasnt crucified have anything to do with the proof of his geneology?____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Amoud, it is "narrated" in another place that Jesus learned the profession of a carpenter from his father. So, which one??
Amoud - these are the conversations I'd like to have but to often they turn into bashing or 'perceived' bashing.
It is possible to talk about religion even if your beliefs are different, just like you can talk about football, even you can't play for A.C Milan, support a different team lol.
Thats why it annoys me when certain posters say, 'become muslim before you ask question'/ 'if you dont believe go away' etc.
DMS, "truthfulness" is not enough as a "proof". Many people are "truthful" and in the end they get busted. And somebody else is having fun.
biblical prophesies that Jesus will die and the account of all His Apostles that He did die or another Prophet saying Jesus did not die?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Road there may be, I have yet to come across it. I have found some sources stating that he was said to have lived in Egypt as a child and such but havent found anything credible enough to repeat.
The life of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is narrated from birth to his death as it is important for Muslims to fully understand his origins, his upbringing etc. many of the Prophets lives are not narrated in completion as they were literally unknowns until their revelations.
Interesting concept, i have discussed this with my husband many times and we concur that like The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) the Prophet Jesus (PBUH) were men, and why would they not live the lives of men? Getting married? children? How did they make their living (it is narrated that The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) was a shepard).
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
truthfulness (of course mis-translation should be subjected to scrutiny in the original text). And one subject in Quran is the belief that Lord Jesus did not died!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Amoud, if we believed that Mohammed was a prophet we would be Muslims.
Show me the birth registers, please.
it's precisely meant to be!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Even if, roadtester, it's "made up", to fit. There is no information available. The whole genealogy of Jesus as a descendant of David is also "made up", because it had to "fit".
In the bible big chunks of jesus's life is missing, he's born, then jumps to him whipping jews in the temple etc
Does islam fill any gaps of his youth to adulthood?
Aha, here we go :)
This is getting dead interesting, very constructive I must say.
As far as books go, the Quran is deemed as one of the biggest miracle of Islam. It was narrated in manner of speaking which was not present in the time, by an illeterate man. The language of the Quran is never to be changed as it will loose its meaning and not a single word has been changed since its creation. I find this facinating. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Roadtester, the New Testament is the views of at least four different people. Scientists assume that even the authorships are not clear to one person in each case. It's like a report in the Gulf Times, one in the Peninsula, one on BBC, and one on CNN. Now you can choose which one you tend to. It has absolutely nothing to do with "truth" whatsoever.
DMS, the Qurans Prophecies also have also transpired, as well. Even The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) explained in great detail how children were conceived, grew in the womb, how they looked at different stages etc. Every religion has them, it is part of the faith.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
You are right DMS. Predictions are based on statistical data and evolve from complicated mathematics, whereas prophecies ... ??
Indeed Roadster, Hadiths are wisdoms from the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) narrated by a companion. The credibility of the source, relevance and also confirmations from other sources determine their strength. One bad perception about Islam is when weak hadiths are used to define the religion.
Anything can be "spun", and it happens in all religions.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
So it is fair to say that essentially the new testament is written in the same way as hadiths? A collection of peoples reports.
different things. All prophesies mentioned in the Bible were already happened except for one, the actual second coming!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I asked you, roadtester, because you suggested that Mohammed might have been mentioned in the Bible, which is not the fact, though. And, yes, only the four gospels of Mathew, Marc, Luke, anf John are "canonized" by the Vatican. All others don't fit into their scheme of how to maintain their "power" and are declared as "nonsense" (by the Vatican).
Why you asking me magic??
The impression I have is that the church has been very strict in control of the bible over time, but there are all kinds of conspiracies - from Da vinchi code, to a 'black bible' a book of satan, being held in Italy all kind of crazy stuff.
In islam you have hadiths which I understand have classifications from weak to strong?
Hmm, yeah, "predictions". To avoid that something unexpected happens and changes the current "power" status. It is absolutely clever to say:" There will be no more prophet after me."
Hmm, MD most religions have predictions for the future. I dont think it is "people" forseeing the future, and if the predictions are the word of God, i think perhaps God has a little insight :)
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
How would they have been able to forsee the future, roadtester?? The four gospels were written between 75 and 200 AD.
good question
Well my question was honestly out of curiosity, as I would not class myself as christian.
Who knows there may actually have been mention of Mohammed in the bible but it got removed.
****In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus!****
Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me.
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.
DMS, they are different religions, if they were completely the same wouldnt it defeat the purpose?
Islam does have the Prohpet Jesus (PBUH) as one of the saviors of the world, cant be all bad can it?
MD, I could read alot into the post, and spice it up to the max with my opinion and "conspiracy theories". I wont, never intend to. Stick to whats here.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
my religion also recognizes another messenger that was prophesied and we do hold him in high regard. But what our last messenger preached was about the church Christ founded when He was here and we followed that church. So for Christians (as we believed the last division of time is Christian era, aside from the two before it) we stopped on the Bible. But since the prophet Muhammad preached about Islam thru Quran, we may not really reconcile those differences. But I like this article posted because if you analyze it closely, it would still be Christ in the end (which is what the Bible says)!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
You could also read my post like this, amoud: After Christianity was "created" the priests who had the power over the people did everything to avoid losing their power and every "new" idea was a danger to their position.
Dont ask me MD, I posted it as food for thought. I was asked if The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) was equal as Road felt that this was an Islam is greater than Christianity thread.
The question sways both ways n'est pa?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Amoud, Christianity was "created" 550 years before Mohammed. How could they "allow" him to be more "important" than the founder of their religion?
DMS, it is all a matter of belief I suppose, your truth may not be mine, or Roadsters. you say its wrong, I say its right, roadster may be in the middle etc.
My aim here is not to accuse, only shedding light on the belief. I dont think in any way you are wrong in what you believe, and respect your belief system. Perhaps a little reciprical respect would be a nice change?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
in His death and resurrection is the proof that there is resurrection for all those to be saved comes His second coming! That is one belief in Islam that somehow belittled our Lord Jesus and God's ultimate plan for those who will be saved comes judgment day!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
It said "modern-day christians", which I dont think is offensive or "Incorrect" as you said.
The answer to your questions may be another question. In Christianity, are any of the Prophets held in higher regard than others? Yes, they are. The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is the father of Islam, and held in the highest regard as he brought the religion to his followers. As Islam was taught by The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would he not have more signifigance in Islam than the Prophet Jesus (PBUH)? It doesnt make him "better", nor does it dimish The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) respect and importance in the entire faith as one cannot be Muslim without believing and respecting his word to the highest degree.
It is stated in the Quran that the Prophet Jesus (PBUH) will come back to earth for 40 years before the day of judgement to fight off evil and set things straight so to speak.
So I guess I should answer now... yeah, The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) is pretty important :) Christianity doesnt even recognize the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH).
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
To clarify I did not like the 'modern christians' comment that had been slotted in to the original piece.
Amoud -that question was asked honestly, I dont have a follow up question. I was just curious - :) chill :)
I dont believe the post stated that either of them was better than the other, you are adding fuel to a non-existant fire.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
In islamic belief where does Jesus sit in relation to the prophet muhammed? e.g are they seen as equals?
Getsvilla, the Quran doesnt state that Jesus will judge everyone. Islam does not believe in the trinity.
True, but I am not sure what Road meant by the issues in the thread that were not true about Christianity. As I said before I guess I really may be missing something here.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I'm not sure what you mean.
Let us all agree then with our disagreements... what would you say Gypsy?
I think many people consider it preaching...also not everyone agrees with what's written here and they like to point out their disagreement.
As far as i know... everything was made... i.e. heaven and earth... all for Jesus' sake... the same Person who will judge all... as also stated in Qur'an.
I dont get that sometimes, if the post is written in a non confrontational way, and people dont drag all sorts of crap into it (sadly this happens more than not) I find it can be an interesting read sometimes.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
That might be the aim, but all it does is cause arguments.
True Gypsy, I think the aim is to show "we arent so different" :)
I think with the way religious threads generally go posters are trying to make that one post that unites us all in a warm, fuzzy forum of similarity.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Isn't this posted every other week? Is there anyone on this forum that doesn't understand Jesus's place in Islam?
Stone, being arab isnt a religion. Arabs are from all different faiths.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Here we go again trying our very best to show off our theology knowledge. How can a cat be a dog or a camel be a sheep ? A jews is always a Jews, an Arab always Arab. Jesus is a Jews, born in Bethlehem, heads christianity. and so are the prophets before him. The other, I don't know much. Good thesis hah?
I think operhaps you have let the comparison rub you the wrong way. He is merely trying to bridge a gap by showing similarities, not create one as you suggest.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
"They still practice this in Saudi Arabia. When a royal is found guilty they kill somebody else instead!"
Even if this is true and you can give me an authentic story of this allegation, this is by no means the Islamic way of dealing with people justly. The Royals in Saudi Arabia, the priests who practice homosexuality and abuse children in churches, the rabbis who commit wrongdoings are not the role models of their respective religions. Bad people are found in all religions and communities.
Unfortunately these "Bad" people are the ones in power.
I agree with you and dont question your interpretation. People often put 'throwaway' comparisons in when quoteing another religion as a way of putting it down.
Comparing christianity and islam as difficult as though both only have one 'book' they are both interpreted differently - sunni / catholic / wahabi/ baptist / shia / anglican / sufi / adventist etc etc
Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)
To the people who don't believe in free speech - stop posting ;)
Roadtester: The main difference is that us, muslims, don't belive that he died crucificated but that someone took his place in the crucifiction (someone please correct me if i wrote it wrongly, thks)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
The original posters article was appearing to highlight differences in religions when there aren't.
'Christians' believe the same as muslims that its an immaculate birth.
I don't see the point of the post apart from trying to seed false differences between islam and christianity.
threads shouldn't be posted in QL as readers might get aggressive & controversial.
.
Kindly avoid posting threads & comments. JUST IGNORE IT
Fool me once, shame on u.Fool me twice, shame on me!^^
I may not be following Road, what comments on Christians are you referring to?
I didnt really get that it was a islam greater than Christianity post, I must have missed something in between the lines.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Amoud??? I agree with you lol
the comments on christians was incorrect.
Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)
To the people who don't believe in free speech - stop posting ;)
Actually Roadster, everything he posted about Jesus in Islam is just as he said. A Muslim cant be Muslim without believing in Jesus.
Muslims also believe in the Prophets of Christianity, and the verses on these Prohphets are very similar.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
"Contrary to Christian beliefs, Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified, but rather that someone else was made to resemble him and crucified instead of him."
They still practice this in Saudi Arabia. When a royal is found guilty they kill somebody else instead!
Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today),
Christians believe in the immaculate conception like muslims, without any male intervention.
oh dear another islam > christianity thread
Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)
To the people who don't believe in free speech - stop posting ;)