whether it is east or west, the socalled islamic world or Christian west the people who are running the show and controlling the power corridors have expertise to sale the religeon.
Religeon itself is a great thing and humans need it, but the use of religeon as a pretext to sort the evil out from the world by the people who are most secular in their personal lives is nothing but exploitation. Whether it is the expansion of ottoman empire to the eastern europeon lands OR the Crusades.
I was quoting the Gospels here. In my own little way, I try to make the world a better place by how I treat the people around me and the ones I come in touch with. How well do I succeed? Others have to be the judge of that.
Apart from that, I struggle with this meaning too.
DaVinci code is fiction (not even good fiction IMHO). I think you can use others as examples. My father was a good example to me of faithful living. There are of course others too.
"Do people seem to be trying to walk the talk?" I think that's a good question to ask of any religious "leader" (or sales agent to reference this thread).
As for Scriptures being guides for living, I think we have to be careful here. There are many references in most (all?) of the various divine books that are clearly out of date. David and his soldiers killed 5,000 men in one day and they were considered "good men." That comes from an era when "my god is better than your god, so there!" The Quran is ripe with hatred towards Jews and Christians (in spite of references to them all being people of the book). I am embarrassed for my Muslim brothers and sisters when I read these passages.
Fortunately in the West, there is a strong tradition in the more liberal churches of "textual and higher criticism"--basically using literary, sociological and historical sciences to try and discern the original meaning or purpose of these passages. Hopefully Islam will discover such tools in time as well so there can be meaningful interfaith dialogue.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
I'm with you wiz on this, i'm also tired of this stupid religion war, who cares who was last or 1st profet? God created us and i would even say that he may be angrier with all religious leaders that are trying to take apart all His "children" (us, humans) than with all our (common men/women) sins.
Any religion that says belive me that i'm the best and it's true because it's written on the holly book and descriminating any other belive, can never be the "True Religion", in spiritism we say that if someone asks you money for calling spirits than leave him out because he/she isn't a true spiritist, if God has blessed us with this gift of being able to talk with the death, it isn't for us to make money but, like Mother Teresa did, to help everybody without looking anything else that the people are in need, doesn't mean financial needs but basic needs .
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
whether it is east or west, the socalled islamic world or Christian west the people who are running the show and controlling the power corridors have expertise to sale the religeon they are using every available tool like print electronic media, clergies education system to exploit the masses.
if God love humans then he must have send guidlines. Christians says it is Bible and Muslim says it's Quran and Jews, Hindus, if all the claims are true then it means that God want to divide the humans on religeous basis. There must be one true message..........
i was thinking...how will you demonstrate to others this..."Love the Lord your God with all your mind and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself." What does it mean "Loving the Lord your God"?
"the things you're suppose to do...but you don't do". There's the rub: what am I supposed to do. I should probably go over to the gym this morning and have a work-out instead of being on QL but I'm not. Is that sin?
In my perspective, there are very few "suppose tos" except for the ones I put on myself. I'm supposed to make supper tonight, but only because that was the agreement I entered into. In faith, I have complete freedom. The entire law is summed up in this, "Love the Lord your God with all your mind and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself." The rest is commentary.
If we could get rid of all this dogma and doctrine and popes (Red Pope excluded of course), I for one think we would be much better off. I've always been tired of this *rap about "Is the Son of the same substance or a similar substance as the Father? Wait! Let's convene the Council of Nicea in 364 to decide this!" (Incidentally, there was a Christian bishop from Qatar that attended that conference according to one of my readings).
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
yeah true that God loves human but from where can we drive this idea is it from religeous guidance or are we able to analyze in these times where material is the top religeon to think about God's love and how it can be logical that bcoz God love humans, so whatever humans do good deeds or bad deeds, in after life human will get the same treatment........
wizmotr, sin moreover....is something like this...it is those things that you don't want to do, but you do...and the things you suppose to do...but you don't do.
Thanks for your ideas and starting the thread Zhatash
Saying people are sinful isn't insulting if it's true. More to the point is "What is sin?"
As a human, I embrace only those things that are in my self interest. If I'm hungry or starving, I'll do something about it. If someone else (or whole populations) are starving, then not so much. But why should my hunger be more important than that of other people?
We normally call it selfishness, or greed, or egotism, arrogance, lust, and a hundred other names. Theology just calls it by a technical term --"sin". I don't like technical terms if I'm in mixed company.
As for my brain, I think I posted on another thread, that if I could fully comprehend God and God's will and expectations for me, then it couldn't really be God. I like to think that I'm pretty smart, but I can't be that smart!
All I know is that God loves me regardless: regardless of what I do, or what mistakes I make, or what I believe. My faith starts with God loving me; it has nothing to do with me. Who I am and what I do is only a response to this love. By analogy, I love my parents because of all that they did for and gave to me; I don't love them because they expected or demanded it of me. I work to make them proud of the sacrifices they made knowing that when I fall, there is still no judgment or condemnation from them.
How do I know this? Well, I'm not really sure, but I think that it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to feel love. We all can experience it pretty much as soon as we're born. Many other animals with lower mental functioning can feel it too.
If there is a paradise and if I do find myself in it in some future reality, then it won't be because of what I've done or not done; it will be because God is kind and loving to all her people.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
I was expelled from Sunday School. The interchange happened like this:
Teacher: And when God parted the waters and Moses led the People of Israel across the Red Sea...
Me: (Hand up)
Teacher: Yes wiz?
Me: How do we know that? I mean, how do we know that God parted the waters and all these people walked across on dry land?
Teacher: Well, because it's in the Bible. We're reading it right now!
Me: Yes, but how do we know the Bible is true?
Teacher: Well, because God wrote it!
Me: Well, if I wanted to write a book that I wanted people to pay attention to, wouldn't it be a good idea to say that God wrote my book as well? Just 'cause I say it's from God doesn't mean it is.
Teacher: [silence, then an attempt to move back to the story for the rest of the class]
And when it was all over, the teacher and pastor were talking to my parents. The rest as they say is history.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
tess_916, in another way...it is also being sold because it was personally tested, tasted, seen...experienced... but for quite sometime now, it is rarely shared for that cause...
what i was trying to explain...some religion is being sold to somebody for the benefit of themselves primarily...the one bought it is just secondary in thought...by selling this "religion" its their + (plus)
Well, BY THAT TIME HE'LL SAY THAT he owes the trueth and all others are wrong, later he'll try to justify why he says it, he'll eventually will manage to get a dispute where he wins it and says that's the proof that he's God's favourite so we should follow him,....wait....i think i know this from somewhere...oh yeah, this is how all religions start ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
t_coffee_or_me, i think you're right...it will just be a matter of choice which of them you will be buying...as long as its genuine...just like buying a leather belt...
how about selling a thing not for the benefit of the one whose selling but for the benefit of those who will believe its a genuine thing...does it make more sense...?
Mjamille: guess he went back to under the rock from where he came, but something tells me that Abu American will be here soon to tell how i only post on this kind of matters.
Getsevilla:
How about if i replied:
1 - Because i belive it
2 - Because it's the best
3 - God will mark you so everyone know's you are special.
4 - You'll get 42 virgins in Paradise waiting for you
5 - Yes, it is genuine, see this book written by God? It's all there.
These are my replies to get someone to belive, now, to myself i could think:
1 - Because you pay me
2 - Because i earn money with it
3 - Who cares?
4 - Me
5 - The money you pay me says it is.
Like i said, it all depends on how much you need to belive it or not
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Getsevilla: a lot of different answers can be obtained from the same question all depends on each one's moral, some may give you one reason but may have other opinion.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I think that happens with all religions, not only christians or muslims, in my case i don't care much about what those "fellows" may say, i was created as being a racional being, so, it's not a priest, rabi, iman or monk that is going to tell me that soccer ball is square because it's written that way somewhere, i do think religion is a private matter of each individual.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
wait till the active debaters get finished with the other thread,..they'll be here next...you might just get the opinion you asked for by then zhatash...
Qatar's winter months are brimming with unmissable experiences, from the AFC Asian Cup 2023 to the World Aquatics Championships Doha 2024 and a variety of outdoor adventures and cultural delights.
Fasten your seatbelts and get ready for a sweet escape into the world of budget-friendly Mango Sticky Rice that's sure to satisfy both your cravings and your budget!
Celebrate World Vegan Day with our list of vegan food outlets offering an array of delectable options, spanning from colorful salads to savory shawarma and indulgent desserts.
The Romans sold Christians didnt they..........sounds like fun to me! Yippeeeeeeeeeeee! Hic! 2 for 1 at Lulu!
Religeon itself is a great thing and humans need it, but the use of religeon as a pretext to sort the evil out from the world by the people who are most secular in their personal lives is nothing but exploitation. Whether it is the expansion of ottoman empire to the eastern europeon lands OR the Crusades.
i think we are not talking about which religeon is true or which book is, in its original form.
Yeaps, we need to use our brains and act as civilized instead of savage beasts
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
:S
Just missed your posting while responding.
Who says we can't be civil when talking about these issues? (Oh wait, that was mj)
Some days I really enjoy being part of this virtual community.
Back to the day job...
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
I was quoting the Gospels here. In my own little way, I try to make the world a better place by how I treat the people around me and the ones I come in touch with. How well do I succeed? Others have to be the judge of that.
Apart from that, I struggle with this meaning too.
DaVinci code is fiction (not even good fiction IMHO). I think you can use others as examples. My father was a good example to me of faithful living. There are of course others too.
"Do people seem to be trying to walk the talk?" I think that's a good question to ask of any religious "leader" (or sales agent to reference this thread).
As for Scriptures being guides for living, I think we have to be careful here. There are many references in most (all?) of the various divine books that are clearly out of date. David and his soldiers killed 5,000 men in one day and they were considered "good men." That comes from an era when "my god is better than your god, so there!" The Quran is ripe with hatred towards Jews and Christians (in spite of references to them all being people of the book). I am embarrassed for my Muslim brothers and sisters when I read these passages.
Fortunately in the West, there is a strong tradition in the more liberal churches of "textual and higher criticism"--basically using literary, sociological and historical sciences to try and discern the original meaning or purpose of these passages. Hopefully Islam will discover such tools in time as well so there can be meaningful interfaith dialogue.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
I'm with you wiz on this, i'm also tired of this stupid religion war, who cares who was last or 1st profet? God created us and i would even say that he may be angrier with all religious leaders that are trying to take apart all His "children" (us, humans) than with all our (common men/women) sins.
Any religion that says belive me that i'm the best and it's true because it's written on the holly book and descriminating any other belive, can never be the "True Religion", in spiritism we say that if someone asks you money for calling spirits than leave him out because he/she isn't a true spiritist, if God has blessed us with this gift of being able to talk with the death, it isn't for us to make money but, like Mother Teresa did, to help everybody without looking anything else that the people are in need, doesn't mean financial needs but basic needs .
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
That's how thread start
Religeon is a salable commodity..
whether it is east or west, the socalled islamic world or Christian west the people who are running the show and controlling the power corridors have expertise to sale the religeon they are using every available tool like print electronic media, clergies education system to exploit the masses.
yeah sounds true
if God love humans then he must have send guidlines. Christians says it is Bible and Muslim says it's Quran and Jews, Hindus, if all the claims are true then it means that God want to divide the humans on religeous basis. There must be one true message..........
hmmmmmmm......... DaVinci Code nothing but fiction..
i was thinking...how will you demonstrate to others this..."Love the Lord your God with all your mind and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself." What does it mean "Loving the Lord your God"?
wizmotr, will you buy that religion...?
wizmotr, maybe you have watched Da Vinci Code for some reason...
"the things you're suppose to do...but you don't do". There's the rub: what am I supposed to do. I should probably go over to the gym this morning and have a work-out instead of being on QL but I'm not. Is that sin?
In my perspective, there are very few "suppose tos" except for the ones I put on myself. I'm supposed to make supper tonight, but only because that was the agreement I entered into. In faith, I have complete freedom. The entire law is summed up in this, "Love the Lord your God with all your mind and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself." The rest is commentary.
If we could get rid of all this dogma and doctrine and popes (Red Pope excluded of course), I for one think we would be much better off. I've always been tired of this *rap about "Is the Son of the same substance or a similar substance as the Father? Wait! Let's convene the Council of Nicea in 364 to decide this!" (Incidentally, there was a Christian bishop from Qatar that attended that conference according to one of my readings).
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
yeah true that God loves human but from where can we drive this idea is it from religeous guidance or are we able to analyze in these times where material is the top religeon to think about God's love and how it can be logical that bcoz God love humans, so whatever humans do good deeds or bad deeds, in after life human will get the same treatment........
wizmotr, sin moreover....is something like this...it is those things that you don't want to do, but you do...and the things you suppose to do...but you don't do.
Thanks for your ideas and starting the thread Zhatash
Saying people are sinful isn't insulting if it's true. More to the point is "What is sin?"
As a human, I embrace only those things that are in my self interest. If I'm hungry or starving, I'll do something about it. If someone else (or whole populations) are starving, then not so much. But why should my hunger be more important than that of other people?
We normally call it selfishness, or greed, or egotism, arrogance, lust, and a hundred other names. Theology just calls it by a technical term --"sin". I don't like technical terms if I'm in mixed company.
As for my brain, I think I posted on another thread, that if I could fully comprehend God and God's will and expectations for me, then it couldn't really be God. I like to think that I'm pretty smart, but I can't be that smart!
All I know is that God loves me regardless: regardless of what I do, or what mistakes I make, or what I believe. My faith starts with God loving me; it has nothing to do with me. Who I am and what I do is only a response to this love. By analogy, I love my parents because of all that they did for and gave to me; I don't love them because they expected or demanded it of me. I work to make them proud of the sacrifices they made knowing that when I fall, there is still no judgment or condemnation from them.
How do I know this? Well, I'm not really sure, but I think that it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to feel love. We all can experience it pretty much as soon as we're born. Many other animals with lower mental functioning can feel it too.
If there is a paradise and if I do find myself in it in some future reality, then it won't be because of what I've done or not done; it will be because God is kind and loving to all her people.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
zhatash...that's how nature calls...even priests, nuns, monks, everybody....up to this date, sins...
yeah wizmotr upto some extent u are right but is it possible that human brain grasp all the metaphysical realities
but it is not quite convincing that humans are sinful from the birth it means the whole race is sinful,for me it is an insult to the whole human race.
I was expelled from Sunday School. The interchange happened like this:
Teacher: And when God parted the waters and Moses led the People of Israel across the Red Sea...
Me: (Hand up)
Teacher: Yes wiz?
Me: How do we know that? I mean, how do we know that God parted the waters and all these people walked across on dry land?
Teacher: Well, because it's in the Bible. We're reading it right now!
Me: Yes, but how do we know the Bible is true?
Teacher: Well, because God wrote it!
Me: Well, if I wanted to write a book that I wanted people to pay attention to, wouldn't it be a good idea to say that God wrote my book as well? Just 'cause I say it's from God doesn't mean it is.
Teacher: [silence, then an attempt to move back to the story for the rest of the class]
And when it was all over, the teacher and pastor were talking to my parents. The rest as they say is history.
--
Since Allah has given me a brain, it would seem like a sin not to use it.
apart from traditional religeons scientology, Humanism, athism, communism these are all form of religeon.
hmmmmmmmmmm getsevilla man is sinful another religeous manifestation
zhatash, man is sinful...from the time of his birth...
zhatash, there's a qoute i always remember..."There's a way that seem right for a man, but it leads to death in the end."
getsevilla u can say that it's for their benefit but why common men take that idea.they knows human need religeon and exploit it
zhatash, you said it...for their personal benefit!
zhatash, good to know you're still there....
what i mean to say that religeon is a salable comodity
because the leaders of the world knows well that how to exploit the masses on the name of religeon.
tess_916, in another way...it is also being sold because it was personally tested, tasted, seen...experienced... but for quite sometime now, it is rarely shared for that cause...
what i was trying to explain...some religion is being sold to somebody for the benefit of themselves primarily...the one bought it is just secondary in thought...by selling this "religion" its their + (plus)
in "heaven"....
Tess: I agree, i think religion is something private.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Well, BY THAT TIME HE'LL SAY THAT he owes the trueth and all others are wrong, later he'll try to justify why he says it, he'll eventually will manage to get a dispute where he wins it and says that's the proof that he's God's favourite so we should follow him,....wait....i think i know this from somewhere...oh yeah, this is how all religions start ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
well....i din understand what u meant??? :s
Can n e one expalin plz.....
zhatash, where r u now....? you started this.....
sometimes...someone will sell something genuine not to profit from it but to share it, to taste and see the goodness of it...
Getsvilla: r there still people that sell something just because it's genuine and they don't wanna profit from it?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
zhatash, what would you say....?
t_coffee_or_me, i think you're right...it will just be a matter of choice which of them you will be buying...as long as its genuine...just like buying a leather belt...
should be genuine to last long.
how about selling a thing not for the benefit of the one whose selling but for the benefit of those who will believe its a genuine thing...does it make more sense...?
Thanks Ph, :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Funny how truthful your post was plato! In the sense that we all do something for something!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
t_coffee: exactly :)
mjamille: 7aas is busy with teaching my cousins how to "blow" things up, i asked him this special favour because....go see the other post :P
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
In this present age every thing is a salable commodity
Love, War, Hatred you name it and it will be on sale somewhere or the other
[img_assist|nid=50852|title=hmm|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
lol platao..
Mjamille: guess he went back to under the rock from where he came, but something tells me that Abu American will be here soon to tell how i only post on this kind of matters.
Getsevilla:
How about if i replied:
1 - Because i belive it
2 - Because it's the best
3 - God will mark you so everyone know's you are special.
4 - You'll get 42 virgins in Paradise waiting for you
5 - Yes, it is genuine, see this book written by God? It's all there.
These are my replies to get someone to belive, now, to myself i could think:
1 - Because you pay me
2 - Because i earn money with it
3 - Who cares?
4 - Me
5 - The money you pay me says it is.
Like i said, it all depends on how much you need to belive it or not
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Oh yes, I remember now, it's what has been used for all of time to justify an act (usually not hand-shaking..) against a neighbour.
Hmmm.
Not for me thanks!
Duh. Look at the link for Scientology down there.
by answering these few basic question, i would say selling one's religion is justifiable...no time wasting,
no "force-effort" taking, but an enjoying way of
offering, just like selling delicious mouth watering ice cream in a cone.
so where's your arch-nemesis 7..platao..?
Getsevilla: a lot of different answers can be obtained from the same question all depends on each one's moral, some may give you one reason but may have other opinion.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
religion i would say is a salable commodity...in a broader perspective, questions might include:
1. why you're selling it?
2. what is the motive of selling it?
3. who will be recognised by selling it?
4. who will get the profit by selling it?
5. is the one you're selling a genuine commodity?
lol :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
see what i mean zhatash?? so platao is here now,..wait and the others will follow....
Mjamille: i'm already here ;)
I think that happens with all religions, not only christians or muslims, in my case i don't care much about what those "fellows" may say, i was created as being a racional being, so, it's not a priest, rabi, iman or monk that is going to tell me that soccer ball is square because it's written that way somewhere, i do think religion is a private matter of each individual.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
wait till the active debaters get finished with the other thread,..they'll be here next...you might just get the opinion you asked for by then zhatash...
owns 15 Rolls Royces and a private jet! Funny how people are seduced into parting with their hard-earned cash to join the great brainwashed....
"Never believe everything you hear, and only believe half of what you see" Tim Stainforth
yeah no comment.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
This thread will either fizzle and dies out or turn into a 3 page slagging match!
go ahead, and look.
no comment.
I am looking for an opinion