Information on women dress in Islam

We need to tolerate each other because once one becomes absolute with their beliefs, then they close their eyes on things which are just in front of them. It doesn't matter whether if there are four religions leader successors or just one successor who is the fourth caliph or the Mahdi is already here or is yet to come or if your neighbour eats meat on the holy week. What matters most is what you believe and your impact on people around you. When you depart from this world, what remains is your memory and legacy to others. If you are good to them irregardless of their faith, color,race or gender then you will live on with them, in their hearts and in their thoughts. If you were bad, then you will just be forgotten, just a footprint in the sand, to be blown away by the wind.

too shocked to comment! I know a Qatari too who owned land where the QSTP now stands. It was a well maintained farm house and I used to go there when I was a kid during weekends with family...

But then I just heard that he lost the land

Next time I meet him, I'll definitely bring this up...

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And will be looking forward to the next installment :-)

I'm glad someone else shares my insomnia -- lol

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I had wondered if there was a sort of quid pro quo arrangement regarding the land and the minister, but now I can imagine that the heirs would be very upset. I do hope at least that they received suitable financial compensation, but it isn't the same as your own land. These issues always make for HUGE battles in the American courts, but there at least you do have the means to air it publicly and publicize your complaints against the government.

BTW, my grandmother couldn't stop the road but in addition to paying her for her land, the state had to compensate her for 2 enormous hemlock trees she had planted when she first built the house -- they were about 10 meters high, 65 years old and BEAUTIFUL! They had huge graceful branches that fanned out all the way to teh ground and as a child we used to play hide and seek in them. When the state took her land she negotiated an additional settlement for the loss of the trees. This was in the 1970s when the environmental movement was getting underway and she was paid 75,000 each for those trees! My dear grandmother knew how to stand her ground and drive a hard bargain!:-)

Sorry for the hijack!

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

You are a sincere and intelligent sister, and I appreciate your commitment to sources. Yet, I have the following comments:

The source you cite from is, unless I am mistaken, the commentary included in a recent Saudi translation of the Qur'an which they claim is "agreed upon by ibn Kathir,al-Qurtubi, and al-Tabari." It is not itself the tafsir of ibn Kathir, al-Qurtubi, or al-Tabari. If you gave some strong evidence directly from these sources, then I would consider it.

Also, my main question - whether the purpose of hijab is to "protect women from the lustful gaze of men" is not shown in the Quranic aya or hadeeth contained in this long section of material. At least I do not find it. Please, can you can indicate the specific verse or hadeeth in what you posted which shows that this is the purpose of hijab?

I will leave off the other issues for now.

Moderator note: Please refer to 4, 11 and especially 15 of the Community Guidelines

From the Quran.....(This tafseer is Agreed upon by Ibn Kathir, Al-Qurtabi and At-Tabari)

The Noble Qur'an ........

Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59

‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies (screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way Tafseer Al-Qurtabi) that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

Surah An-Nur, Verses #30 and #31

‘And Say to the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)

The First Requirement:

The Extent of Covering

The dress worn in public must cover the entire body except what has been specifically excluded, based upon the following proofs:

Allah (swt) says:

‘And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their headcovers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women (i.e., their sisters in Islam), or their female slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants free of physical desires, or small children who have no sense of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what

they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah altogether, O you Believers, in order that you may attain success’.[An-Nur, 24:31]

The Second Requirement:

Thickness

The garment should be thick and opaque so as not to display the skin color and form of the body beneath it. Delicate or transparent clothing does not constitute a proper covering. The Sahabah were very stern on this and regarded scanty clothing in public as an indicator of a woman's lack of belief. Al-Qurtubi reports a narration from `Aishah (ra) that some women

from Banu Tamim came to see her wearing transparent clothing. `Aishah said to them: "If you are are believing women, these are not the clothes of believing women." He also reports that a bride came to see her wearing a sheer, transparent khimaar, whereupon `Aishah (ra) said: "A woman who wears such clothing does not believe in Soorat An-Nur."

Moreover, the following hadeeth makes this point graphically clear. Allah's Messenger (saw) said: There will be in the last of my Ummah (nation of believers), scantily dressed women, the hair on the top of their heads like a camel's hump. Curse them, for verily they are cursed. In another version he said: ...scantily dressed women, who go astray and make others go astray; they will not enter Paradise nor smell its fragrance, although it can be smelled from afar. [At-Tabarani and Sahih Muslim] "Scantily dressed women" are those who wear clothing which reveals more than it conceals, thereby increasing her attractiveness while opening the path to a host of evils.

The Third Requirement:

Looseness

The clothing must hang loosely enough and not be so tight-fitting as to show the shape and size of the woman's body. The reason for wearing a garment which is wide and loose fitting is that the function of Muslim women's clothing is to eliminate the lure and beauty of her body from the eye of the beholder. Skin-tight body suits, etc. may conceal the skin color, yet they display the size and shape of the limbs and body. The following hadeeth proves this point clearly:

Usamah ibn Zaid said: Allah's Messenger (saw) gave me a gift of thick Coptic cloth he had recieved as a gift from Dahiah Al-Kalbi, and so I gave it to my wife. Thereafter the Prophet (saw) asked me: Why didn't you wear the Coptic cloth? I replied: I gave it to my wife. the Prophet (saw) then said: Tell her to wear a thick gown under it (the Coptic garment) for I fear that it may describe the size of her limbs. [Narrated by Ahmad, Al-Bayhaqi, and Al-Haakim]

The Fourth Requirement:

Color, Appearance and Demeanor

Allah (swt) says:

"O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women; if you fear (Allah), then do not be too pleasent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should feel desire (for you)." [Al-Ahzab, 33:32]

The reason for the revelation of this verse is not the fear of distrust nor misbehavior on the part of the women, but rather to prevent them from speaking invitingly, walking seductively, or dressing revealingly so as to arouse sexual desire in the heart of lecherous and evil men.

Seductive dressing and enticing speech are the characteristics of ill-intentioned women, not Muslims. Al-Qurtubi mentions that Mujahid (RA) said: "Women (before the advent of Islam) used to walk about (alluringly) among men." Qatadah (RA) said: "They used to walk in a sensuous and seductive manner." Maqatil (RA) said: "The women used to wear an untied

cloth on their heads, while provocatively toying with their necklaces, earrings and other ornamental jewelry." Furthermore, Allah has commanded women not to display their beauty, meaning both natural and acquired beauty. Allah commands the believing women thus:

...And do not make a display of yourselves like the displaying of the ignorance of long ago... [Al-Ahzaab, 33:33]

A garment which is intended to conceal a woman and her beauty from public view cannot be a thing which enhances her beauty. Therefore, the garment cannot contain bright colors, bold designs or shiny and reflective material that draw men's attention to the wearer. The Arabic word above, At-Tabarruj, means not only "to display oneself" but also "to spruce up one's charms for the purpose of exciting desire".

Imam Adh-Dhahabi says in his book Kitab Al-Kaba'ir (The Book of Major Sins): "Amongst the deeds which a woman is cursed for are displaying the adornments she wears, wearing perfume when she goes out, and wearing colorful clothes..." Hence, the Muslim woman is encouraged to wear muted, somber colors and to avoid bright designs, patterns and colors.

The Fifth Requirement:

Difference from Men's Clothing

The clothing of a Muslim woman must not resemble the clothing of men. The following two hadeeth help to explain this. Abu Hurayrah (RA) said: Allah's Messenger (saw) cursed the man who wears women's clothes and the woman who wears men's clothes. [Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah-Saheeh]

`Abdullah ibn `Umar (RA) said he heard Allah's Messenger (saw) say: The man who resembles a woman and the woman who resembles a man is not of us (i.e., not of the believers). [Ahmad and At-Tabarani-Saheeh]

Additionally, Abu Dawood relates a narration from Umm Salamah (RA) which shows that the Prophet (saw) forbade women to bundle their Khumoor on their heads in such a way as to resemble the turban of a man. Western Muslim sisters should pay specific attention to this point since regretfully this has become a widespread practice amongst them.

The Sixth Requirement:

Difference from the Clothing of Unbelievers

Her clothing must not resemble the clothing of unbelievers. This is a general ruling of the Shari'ah which encompasses not only dress but also such things as manners, customs, religious practices and festivities, transactions, etc. Indeed, dissimilarity with unbelievers is a precedent that was established by the first generation of Islam. The following two hadeeth and statement of `Umar (RA) will help to clarify this position: `Abdullah ibn `Amr ibn Al-`Aas said: Allah's Messenger (saw) saw me wearing two saffron-colored garments, so he said: Indeed, these are the clothes of kuffar (unbelievers), so do not wear them. [Sahih Muslim]

`Abdullah ibn `Umar (RA) said: Allah's Messenger (saw) stated: Whoever resembles a people is one of them. [Abu Dawood] Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (RA) related that `Umar (RA) told him: "...I shall not honor those whom Allah has dishonored, nor esteem those He has humbled, nor bring close those whom He has kept afar." [Ahmad]

The Seventh Requirement:

No Vain or Ostentatious Dressing

The woman's dress must not be an expression of ostentation, vanity or as a status symbol by being excessively showy or expensive, nor must it be excessively tattered so as to gain admiration and fame for being humble. Ibn `Umar (RA) reported that Allah's Messenger (saw) said: Whoever dresses for ostentation in this world, Allah will dress that person in a dress of humiliation on the Day of Resurrection, and then set it on fire. [Abu Dawood]

Do you have any proof from the primary sources that according to the definition of hijab, women's clothing, 1) must not have "bold designs" or 2) "resemble men's clothing."

Also, these provisions seem a bit vague for a scholarly fiqh ruling. For example, what constitutes 'resembling men's clothing'? If it is made of the same kind of material, then does it "resemble men's clothing?" And are we to understand by "men's clothing," khaleeji men's clothing, western men's clothing, pakistani men's clothing?

I think "covers everything but face and hands" is it. Everything else you posted is just khaleeji culture, which there is nothing necessarily wrong with. But it is not Shariah.

But again, I am always open to real evidence to the contrary.

Though I do agree that hijab is fardh.

My first problem is with the purpose you state for it, that it is to "protect women from the lustful gaze of men." I think that the evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah point to purposes other than this, and that this is not one of them.

But I am open to proof, so if anyone has a clear proof from the Qu'ran or Sunnah that the purpose is specifically to "protect women from the lustful gaze of men," please post it.

That allows the State to appropriate land for public use for the common good, while paying the owner a fair market value. It is a highly despised law because it means if the state wants to take up have your front yard to put a road in or your farm acreage to put in a waste treatment plant, you have little legal recourse. The bets you can hope for is to bargain and drive the price up so you can get as much compensation as possible. But ultimately, you WILL lose your land 99% of the time. It happend to my grandmother; she was furious but the community was very happy with their new highway.

I'd be curious to know if the Al-Attiyah family was compensated for the land that QF is on and if this land belonged to the immediate family of Abdullah bin Hamad Al-Attiyah.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Qatarita, I had heard about the government breaking its own laws, but not for long. The easy solution to the problem, of course, is to change the law, rather than abiding by it.

Page 18 of today's Qatar Tribune you will find an article about discussions to change the regarding this very topic:

Advisory Council discusses

income tax draft law

The Advisory Council held its weekly

regular session under its Speaker HE

Mohammed bin Mubarak al Kholeifi

on Monday. The council discussed a

draft law on income tax and a draft

law amending some provisions of

law No 7 of 2005 on Qatar Financial

Centre (QFC).

Blah blah, here's the relevant bit:

The council reviewed a draft law amending some

provisions of law No 13 of 1988 on the

temporary expropriation and seizure

of some buildings for the public benefit

and referred its recommendations

to the cabinet. It also discussed

the Financial and Economic Affairs

Committee’s report on decree law No

27 of 2008 organising the investment

of surplus allocations and the revenues

of government organs, public

authorities and institutions and also

refer its recommendations to the cabinet.

The Advisory Council’s Cultural

Affairs and Information Committee

met under its rapporteur Dr Ahmed

Mohammed Obeidan on Monday.

The committee discussed a request

by members on responsible information

freedom. The discussion will be

completed on a future date. (QNA)

http://www.qatar-tribune.com/data/20090623/pdf/nation.pdf

Waiting for the bonus only would drive us to be Materialistic.

Work normal and let things come naturally, but if the boss decides no salary then I will go and investigate.

A worker should receives his salary or share before his sweat dries (Just to explain the fairness)

Moderator note: Please refer to Community Guidelines 4,11 and especially 15

I didn't even know the Qataris having trouble as well, I thought it was more like everything for the Qataris first and then the other nationalities , like Expats.

My husband was told he would get a bonus this summer and that was cut , but he still has to do the work for it , just without the bonus, and forget about getting more pay :(

Not like most ppl like to think, that expats have it soooo good here, we are struggling here,

but masha allah we didn't come for the money ( money that we don't even get anyways)

I guess things are not always as they seem to be

I know all my Qatari friends were ecstatic that their government salaries were cut, some by as much as 17,000 per month, meanwhile the ruling spends 527,425,000QAR on just three works of art.

They are all very happy about that they now have trouble paying their car loans and are rethinking their summer holiday plans.

What is wrong with that?

We are happy and that is what is important.

nothing to do with the post but to ilustrate what is being implied:

"In separate events, Qatar’s ruling family buys $72.8M Rothko, $52.7M Bacon, $19M Hirst"

and that was in US dollars!

http://artobserved.com/in-separate-events-qatar%E2%80%99s-ruling-family-buys-728m-rothko-527m-bacon-19m-hirst/

"Who can blame you when the government spends so much on national parties from museums and conferences and sports events to convince you naive bunch that we are a great nation though we hardly populate a football stadium .. "

Most westerners don't buy into the notion that this is a great, prosperous, successful or innovative country for a second. They are just too affraid to enter the debate.

If anything, many of us chuckle at the amount of money that gets pissed up against the various walls around Qatar, because some of it ends up in our bank accounts.

Ya i know, i stopped.. i typed a looooong reply to his last comment but then thought naah its not worth it :)

don't feed the troll

Hilarious... Abdulaziz u are a funny character!

U know i just wrote a long reply to your last comment but deleted it at the last minute out of RESPECT for your country!

Here we go again ... Where was it declared exactly that Moza and the Prime Minister were part and parcel of the Qatari identity ... You are British yet you call Qatar your home .... ?????

By the way ... Are you having fun chasing my younger cousins in the hope one of them makes you both a Qatari and "SHEIKHA" at the same time ...

I see through you and the pretentious Gulfy 7Enna as well

Im not Qatari, im British :)

I just found it stange that a so called "Sheikh" is talking about his country in this way... its good to be honest and say what u really think, i just want to understand why. I dont know enough about your "ruling" family to make a comment on it.

You seem like a nice person too ... only like the rest of my fellow citizens you are obviously confused. Who can blame you when the government spends so much on national parties from museums and conferences and sports events to convince you naive bunch that we are a great nation though we hardly populate a football stadium ..

I think Moza is a nice person but she really needs to stop the corruption of the Prime Minister if she wants to gain my respect ... that is all

Ok well then i guess everyone in the world is spelling it wrong except you...

On your profile you wrote that you were proud to be Qatari but dont like living here.... By outsiders you mean Sheikha Moza & the Prime minister?? I really want to understand why your so angry with your goverment and why u came to QL to express that anger.

"By the way you're kissing the wrong side of the flag if you're trying to be patriotic"

Listen to yourself, im kissing the wrong side of the flag, what is the right side?? and no im not trying to be patriotic.. i just love Qatar... Its my home :)

How strange ? HMMMMM

people have been mispelling Abdalaziz for years ... Al aziz ... should never have been rendered ul aziz as that is not the correct transliteration ...

Anyway .. just because I criticize outsiders taking over my cousin the emir does not mean I speak badly about my family.

By the way .. we are not a royal family in Qatar ... we are a ruling family (7akima and not Malika) .. you obviously have us confused with the AlSauds' and the Windsors' ..

By the way you're kissing the wrong side of the flag if you're trying to be patriotic ..

Fubar ... What are you on MAN ! Sheikha Moza devotes herself for others ??!!... She devotes herself for her own self and nothing else .. Have you seen her investment portfolio and yachts and jewels ...

People can do whatever they want with their own money but should't be allowed to squander the nation's resources on building up their own personal prestige.

Hmmm... are you really a Royal?? U speak so badly about the Royal family here and the Prime Minister, its strange!! Even the way u spelt your name is strange... Hmmmm.....

I mean some look better 'with' the cover that 'without', so is that not what is suppossed to be avoided? From being in a qatari wedding were all women did not look as gorgeous as what you imagine when seeing them strolling in the mall, I got to say, keep them cover!

The same with other friends in a Dhow party, as soon as they got in their bikinis, with no complex or whatsoever, I was truly dissappointed (and happy, let's be honest) to see that even supermodels have got cellulitis :-)

look Ingesu, beauty lies in the eyes of the holder !

You may not find a women beautiful, but somebody else does and the other way around :)

I am sure many of the 'covered' ladies look better when they are cover, really. I know more than one who shows 'only' her eyes, when that is the only feature that is really attractive in her. Is this not also against the real meaning of not making men keen on her?

you are right ,killing a person unjustly is a major sin.

No matter what Muslims, non - Muslims , or whatever nationality .

Killing is always been going on, that doesn't make it right.

But it is the will of Allah and it has been decreed by Allah's wisdom ,that all of this would take place , so we as Muslims suppose to have patience with the degree of Allah.

Al-'Asr (the time). (Al-'Asr 103)

Verily! Man is in loss,

Except those who believe (in Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'rûf)which Allâh has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar)which Allâh has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allâh's Cause during preaching His religion of Islâmic Monotheism or Jihâd, etc.).

My Dear Umm salayum

Thank you for your lovely post.

Have I come across as questioning mans innately carnal tendancy to shed blood or of Gods wisdom behind allowing the creation of the type who perpetuates the crime of murder?

Herein lies God wisdon and the diversity of his creation and the tests in the forms of choices one makes.

If anything im emphasising the point.

In fact I was being pragmatic explaining the motives behind these so called 'murders in the name of God'

As did I remind readers that murder is murder, Blood is red no matter what nationality or religon and its time that neither side watch life like a reality show while blamelessly pointing an accusatory finger at the other.

When bloodshed is involved BOTH SIDES are guilty and are accountable in Allahs eyes.

I pointed out the fact that we as Muslims are often and justly asked to stand up and reject massacres in the name of Allah.

At the same time I asked that the other side too must ALSO STAND UP and RENOUNCE the killings of muslims aswell..

Im sorry but have I misunderstood your point?

Well, we got different perspectives on life, for me personally , life is religion and religion is life. The copy and past , I do that because I don't have the capability to word it like it was worded there.

As for the Koran ,it is my guide for life , because as Allah says ,

"And the life of this world is nothing but play and amusement. But far better is the house in the hereafter for those who are Al­Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2). Will you not then understand? (Al-An'am 6:32) "

Anyways, I don't even know if you Muslim.... so you may never understand , if you don't believe that you will face your lord for all the words you have said and all the deeds you have done .

I didn't say you don't have much wisdom, maybe you do but you didn't use it by juust copy-paste the Koran to say what is obvious to all.

Life for some is much more than religion, their sources of information goes behond religious references which allows them to think out of the box!

Personally I think, Qatarita's well augmented posts are more convincing than copy-pastes used to lecture people.

And also lusitano, I don't have much wisdom, all I posted was a verse of the Quran with the tafsir ( explanation) to understand that this blood shading is been going on since the beginning of mankind, that's all.....

lusitano, I wish you would have understanding of the religion of Allah and THEN you would understand....

umm-salayum,

wished you understood or had the wisdom of Qatarita!

To Qatarita

You have to understand the wisdom of Allah, remember when he said:

﴿وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَـئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِى الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً قَالُواْ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ ﴾

(2:30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth.'' They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, ـ while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.'' He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know.'')

the tafsir ibn Kathir:

(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood).

The angels meant that this type of creature usually commits the atrocities they mentioned. The angels knew of this fact, according to their understanding of human nature, for Allah stated that He would create man from clay. Or, the angels understood this fact from the word Khalifah, which also means the person who judges disputes that occur between people, forbidding them from injustice and sin, as Al-Qurtubi said.

The statement the angels uttered was not a form of disputing with Allah's, nor out of envy for the Children of Adam, as some mistakenly thought. Allah has described them as those who do not precede Him in speaking, meaning that they do not ask Allah anything without His permission. When Allah informed them that He was going to create a creation on the earth, and they had knowledge that this creation would commit mischief on it, as Qatadah mentioned, they said,

(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood)

This is only a question for the sake of learning about the wisdom of that, as if they said, Our Lord! What is the wisdom of creating such creatures since they will cause trouble in the earth and spill blood "If the wisdom behind this action is that You be worshipped, we praise and glorify You (meaning we pray to You) we never indulge in mischief, so why create other creatures''

Allah said to the angels in answer to their inquiry,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know.) meaning, "I know that the benefit of creating this type of creature outweighs the harm that you mentioned, that which you have no knowledge of. I will create among them Prophets and send Messengers. I will also create among them truthful, martyrs, righteous believers, worshippers, the modest, the pious, the scholars who implement their knowledge, humble people and those who love Allah and follow His Messengers.''

for the whole tafsir please read here:

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=407

qatarita...

you can't change it

Salam TNBP

When you said :-

"Muslims world should raise their voice against the Atrocities against the muslim countries First. If its stop or abandoned then there will be no Extremism. The people those who suffer such Atrocities and Human Crimes against them are very easily misguided"

In my prior post you will find that im essentially saying the same you are , heres what I said:-

"The demented muslim groups augmented in the media the ones that behead and explode innocents, even though they justify it by claiming to serve justice for atrocities being carried out on other muslims.

I personally feel that poverty, lack of achedemic & true Islamic education, and the subtle interplay of an unseen politics are the culprits here.

Because of that they cant afford the sophistication to address these issues in a manner akin to the organised 'civilised nations'

Note that both sides spill blood, one just gets away with it (well almost ) and the other causes the disfigurement of the religon it claims to follow - Again both sides accountable in Gods eyes"

What TNBP is saying and has a very valid point is that although a small majority of muslims commit henious crimes, this doesnt mean that the other groups or rather countries simply because they can afford to present themselves as sophisticated organised governmental bodies backed by illustrious United organisations..this doesnt rid them of the fact that they too commit henious acts of terrorism and massacers against the Iraqi's or the Palestinians or Bosnians to name just a few.

Yes the radical muslims are wrong to commit murder, we are asked to voice this fact with no hesitation or doubt, but I ASK YOU TOO , WHY DONT YOU ALSO VOICE YOUR DISDAIN TOWARDS crimes commited against the muslims aswell???

Blood is blood no matter what nationality, race or religon, we are expected to speak up, but all of you are expected to speak up aswell and denounce atrocities muslims suffered and are still suffering!

dont feel sorry for lusi, she/he is not worth of that....

bloody westerner...

You are asking to change according to today’s world...

How can you do something like that..?

There are things that can change as development. But there are certain things that you should NOT change as the development.

The Religion was given to people by those respectable leaders not to change as the rest need.

Islam is a religion that has a uniqueness all over the world.

BUT still there are small groups in the Islam world AS YOU SAY: CHANGED according to the current need....!!!

They are no more in Islam (May Allah save them and show them the correct path).

So it is better that all the people think that is it good to change your religion as the current world.

I am afraid, that why still people keeping the same stratue of their god as those days,, now the world moving fast... Don't you think develop them.. by adding some new fashion dresses... some good looking stands...(Sorry if I hurt someone) NO. people are not changing them COS that is how the GOD is. and It is bit Worrying then why people changing only things that God or the messenger tolled to the world.......???

Think. and realize the truth. Don't misplace urself in the world by changing you according to the changes of the world....

"WORLD IS FOR US... WE ARE NOT FOR WORLD"

lusitano... is not worth of that....

LUSITANO...

Dont have misconceptions about the preaching...

Read it properly and if you do not understand ...ask any scholar to guide you

That was in the begining when Islam was spreading and what would be good is take the Holy Quran as a whole, do not take only parts which interest you.

For example there is a sentence which means do not pray, some people will say ok we will not pary, but the full sentence do not pray when you drink alcohol or wine.

We must understand and take it as a whole.

can't you ever be logic, at least, for once?

come on !

Khalid,

you asked for it.

Quotes from the Koran promoting violence:

"And slay them wherever you catch them ... and fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah."

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."

more here:

http://www.letusreason.org/Islam12.htm

In Islam we have what is called Zakat and when Muslim people were doing Zakat there was no poverty when Omer Ben Abdulaziz was ruling the Islamic country which was from Morroco up to Iran and some parts of India 800 or 900 years ago

And here is some information about Zakat

The condition of yearly term maturity applies to the commodities on which the Lawgiver said Zakat is due, and this includes silver, gold, modern paper currency and livestock. Paper currency is analogous to silver, therefore, it takes the case of silver. There is no Zakat on salary, earned income from wage earners or professionals or independent contractors until such money matures in a full year. There is no such thing as paying your Zakat on the day you receive your pay check. What the wage earner must know is that he or she can purify that money with charity (sadaqah) anytime they cash the pay check. Allah (SWT) states: "And in their wealth and possessions (was remembered) the right of the needy, he who asks and he who (for some reason) was prevented (from asking)." (Al-Qur'an, 51: 19).

We can deduce from the concept of "yearly maturity" of wealth on which Zakat is due as encouraging, among other things, saving on the part of the Zakat payer, and enhances the chances for eradicating poverty, because if the poor receives his rightful share of Zakat there will be the possibility that he can take Zakat money and invest it and become a Zakat payer instead of recipient. This possibility will be lost if he receives few Zakat dollars every month. To say that the wage earner just brings his check home and spends everything on necessities and lives from check to check with nothing left over means the person is eligible for Zakat.

Using farm produce as analogous to salary for Zakat is wrong analogy. As Imam Al-`Abadi said, these are two different categories of money. $2, 500.00 cash can be invested by the person and expect a good return whereas it will be difficult to invest a bushel of corn. It can be traded as a commodity, which is what it is. This why we must know that analogy has rules that must be followed before it is applied. Certainly the jurists are unanimous that earned income, known as almal al-mustafadah, should either be added to existing money and wait until that amount reaches maturity and then give their Zakat; or if there is no money on hand the time one possesses this money, he or she should wait one full year before assessing it for Zakat.

For more informaation please see the link

source:

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/zakat.htm

the root is economics,

not religion, sorry.

do you know anything better than wine?

All religions ask for peace and good manners and stop fights.

It is only the who makes the bad things.

a good human being.All the other stuff is irrelevant.

not once you know a person is from a particular religion you have preconceived notions about him and forget to see him as just a human being.That's the biggest problem.

And reg the points you mentioned you can learn all that even without religion.

TNBP the bible was originally in Aramaic. Not Hebrew.

There are very few cases of molestation and rape in the workplace in the West, in fact our sexual harrassment laws are very very strict.

Khalid, religion is the root cause for all disagreement on Earth because of exaclty what you're doing, preaching to others that yours is the best way and there's is wrong. This is what causes wars.

How come you say that Religion divides people and is the root cause of most problems on earth!

Religions ask to:

1. Live in peace

2. Stop fights

3. No cheating

4. No lie

5. Be good to people

6. Respect olders

7. Obey your parents as long as they do not ask you to do something bad

8. Say always the truth

9. Religion prohobits hypocrite

10. Do not betrayed people.

11. Religion ask for forgiveness

12. Be kind

13. Be generous

14. maintain hospitality.

and according to one schoolar there are 200 more good values for all mankind that is mintioned in the Holy Quran

who is huck?

by the way, why dont you ask your mom abuot him?

do you know anything better than wine?

LUSITANO...YOU ARE BIG MADER HACKER

sure here.Religion divides people and is the root cause of most problems on earth!

Religion is a personal and private affair. Exhibitionism and imposing it on others is considered harassment!

Once again, and for the last time, you are contributing for anti Islamism!

huck,

you again!

TNBP

do you know anything better than wine?

The holy Quran is my life reference.

I will tell you also that the bibble has been modified to have probably different 20 versions and big differences exist between these versions.

Where as there is only one version of the Holy Quran and it is written in Arabic.

this also maybe intersting:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mogc_ahmed-deedat_events

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4196179647293477969

QATARITA....

Muslims world should raise their voice against the Atrocities against the muslim countries First. If its stop or abandoned then there will be no Extremism. The people those who suffer such Atrocities and Human Crimes against them are very easily misguided.

LA ILAHA ILLALAH MUHAMMADUR RASUL ALLAH (SALLALU WALAIHI WA SALLAM)

First confirm yourself from where you will copy and paste and what from Bible...The origin is in HEBREW Language which most of Christians do not know...

Old Testament or New Testament....Do not critisize Khalid...he is sharing his knowledge and not representing any religion.

LA ILAHA ILLALAH MUHAMMADUR RASUL ALLAH (SALLALU WALAIHI WA SALLAM)

EVERYBODY on the earth know what should a woman wear...still they prefer revealing outfits..In Western countries there are so many Rapes and Female molestation at work places...

They should read the holy Quran and follow....

May ALLAH guide them...AMEEN

LA ILAHA ILLALAH MUHAMMADUR RASUL ALLAH (SALLALU WALAIHI WA SALLAM)

Would you like me to copy-paste the Bible here or the Torah?

Are you entitled to represent and teach your religion here?

If people want to learn about it, they know where to go!

Nobody asked you for it here!

Don't impose, it’s like a torture and causes rejection, and that my friend isn’t Islamic for sure!!!!!!!!!

Again, stop promoting hate against Islam, otherwise god will punish you!

please tell me what is your point exactly?

Luistano let the people know and let them have the right to argue.

It is every one right to argue and choose what is good for them.

luistano please grow up and consider this as a normal discussion where many inputs can be put and please be confident.

Khalid, weren't you told by several people here (Muslims and non Muslims) to stop spreading hate against Islam?

Your copy-paste lectures are becoming annoying!

Pickthal: And though We should send down the angels unto them, and the dead should speak unto them, and We should gather against them all thingsin array, they would not believe unless Allah so willed. Howbeit, most ofthem are ignorant.

Shakir: And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and We had brought together allthings before them, they would not believe unless Allah pleases,but most of them are ignorant.

Yusuf Ali: Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, theyare not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah's plan. But most of themignore (the truth).

Ayah: 112

Pickthal: Thus have We appointed unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and jinn who inspire in one another plausible discoursethrough guile. If thy Lord willed, they would not do so; so leave themalone with their devising;

Shakir: And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among men and jinn, some of them suggesting toothers varnished falsehood to deceive (them), and had your Lordpleased they would not have done it, therefore leave them andthat which they forge.

Yusuf Ali: Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way ofdeception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: soleave them and their inventions alone.

Ayah: 113

Arabic: وَلِتَصْغَى إِلَيْهِ أَفْئِدَةُ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالآخِرَةِ وَلِيَرْضَوْهُ وَلِيَقْتَرِفُواْ مَا هُم مُّقْتَرِفُونَ

Pickthal: That the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter may incline thereto, and that they may take pleasure therein, and that they mayearn what they are earning.

Shakir: And that the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter may incline to it and that they may be well pleased withit and that they may earn what they are going to earn (of evil).

Yusuf Ali: To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from itwhat they may.

Ayah: 114

Pickthal: Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whomWe gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord intruth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

Shakir: Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; andthose whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed byyour Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.

Yusuf Ali: Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well,to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lordin truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

Ayah: 115

Pickthal: Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

Shakir: And the word of your Lord has been accomplished trulyand justly; there is none who can change His words, and He isthe Hearing, the Knowing.

Yusuf Ali: The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth andknoweth all.

Ayah: 116

Pickthal: If thou obeyedst most of those on earth they would mislead thee far from Allah's way. They follow naught but an opinion, and they dobut guess.

Shakir: And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and theyonly lie.

Yusuf Ali: Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing butconjecture: they do nothing but lie.

Ayah: 117

Pickthal: Lo! thy Lord, He knoweth best who erreth from His way; and He knoweth best (who are) the rightly guided.

Shakir: Surely your Lord-- He best knows who goes astray from His way, and He best knows those who follow the right course.

Yusuf Ali: Thy Lord knoweth best who strayeth from His way: He knoweth best who they are that receive His guidance.

source:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29630435@N04/3300304697/

Gypsy there are statements in the holy Qur-an which says the following

010.099

YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

PICKTHAL: And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?

SHAKIR: And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?

010.100

YUSUFALI: No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.

PICKTHAL: It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He hath set uncleanness upon those who have no sense.

SHAKIR: And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand.

sorce:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/010.qmt.html

wine, before reading?

;-)

do you know anything better than wine?

I've read it and I still don't believe in it.

Alexa people are free in the way they are thinking according to theie beliefs.

Also remember that Holy Qur-an is for all people believers and non believers, and once people read it they will know.

I'm referring to Majid -- not Khalid, btw.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

slman

slman,

You realize that this is more obvious in countries where all efforts to educate man focus almost only on religion than other countries where secular education focuses on values and behavior better adapted to the today’s world where men and women coexist equally?

The link you posted, comes from a western, shocked to realize that here the situation is obviously more serious than back in his own country!

KHALID, is trying to tell only that women should wear like this. So the "this" part can be justified by many people according to individual needs. As most of the people today trying to justify what they do is correct, though it is not.

It is not the matter the religion, all the religions same. Cos all are people. All have changed the religion they follow as they need. The "Abaya" has become a fashion wear and the Shortest Dresses has become the modern fashion. And the men’s wear,... the dress of westerners has become the general dress for all the nations. and the traditional and religious dress has no respect due to these western cultures.

We can't stop the males who are looking at females. BUT we can make them not to look a female for the second time by leaving no chance of viewing anything from the body. That is the reason these customs has developed by the religion.

Simply check this link if you really wants to know how disturbing some males to women...

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/373552

I am with Khalid. This is valuable information given by him.

These information are not his own and he has added The Holly Qur’an verses with it. So if any one argues with it by comparing the modesty and western cultures they are may be like simply arguing with Qur’an….

May Allah give us the right path…

Qatarita,

Guess what? I am not surprised at all. As a matter of fact I know the core values are the same. And that is why I ask my self why can't both sides reach this conclusion and unite in 1 voice against extremisms (from both sides)?

What gives a bad name to Islam is not the religion itself, it's rather those who think they represent it and judge and impose their ways on others.

PS. I was not just being kind, I really meant that you are a great example of what Muslims should be known as!

duplicate

You're too kind lusitano, thanks

Its not as easy as you think, this requires mutual accountability from both western and muslim sides and the common denominator of humanity is painfully lacking on both sides.

I try not to be pessismistic , education is growing but so is the spew from irresponsible media companies and their onslaught, both commonly being absorbed by an emerging generation , i'll be optimistic when I see if they build the bridges the others have burned before them.

Would it surprise you to know that what your reffering to as 'western ideologies' are actually core muslim fundamentals and values in true Islam?

Its a shame that in the globalized emerging world how our religon Islam is being misrepresented, feared and hated by people who cant be blamed for what they dont know, the result is Islam is also being shunned by our abandoning youth who due to lack of knowledge shy away from it and are subsequently not representing it properly to educate the rest of the world and people from within.

Qatarita,

Thank you for your great answer.

I am sure many Muslims express loud and clear their disagreement with Terrorism.

I just wished they were as visible as the cartoon protests are.

Media has a share of blame too, they focus on what id=t sells, and protests of hate sell better than Muslims seen as allied of western ideologies.

I admire you for your assertiveness. I wish the world could see more of the side of Muslims that you seem to have!

Lusitano "I wonder why the Muslim world don’t voice loud out in public, their opposition to Islamic Terrorist Groups and their terrorist actions, just like they do it, for example, when somebody draws cartoons of certain characters?"

Id need to write a book to address your question...but here goes:-

Politics .....the double sided sword!

Most of us do voice our opinion on this matter, come to think of it its mainly discussed in arabic and not in the heightened way your inquiring about because of its political controversy.

However...

When you say "the muslim world" do you fathom its vast diversity ?

1-You have the demented groups augmented in the media the ones that behead and explode innocents, even though they justify it by claiming to serve justice for atrocities being carried out on other muslims.

I personally feel that poverty, lack of achedemic & true Islamic education, and the subtle interplay of an unseen politics are the culprits here.

Because of that they cant afford the sophistication to address these issues in a manner akin to the organised 'civilised nations'

Note that both sides spill blood, one just gets away with it (well almost ) and the other causes the disfigurement of the religon it claims to follow - Again both sides accountable in Gods eyes.

Issues like the characature has no contraversy involved no politics, it was a direct assult and for those who know about the prophet and love him would understand why we defend him as we do

Politics and religon an even sharper double edged sword!

2- you have the sedate muslims,these are a neo-contemporary version , these suffer identity crisis and are nothing short of obsessed on their own personal gain to give a hoot about trying to address these issues or help these people, much like the western world that graze as they watch muslim and non muslim people alike being killed on a daily basis...this breed is a mixture of the cattle lead mentality with a good dose of selfishness.

The mutual characteristic of these muslims and non muslim westerners is that they all are too caught up on personal gain and have adopted a terminal resignation, some talk every now and then to jostle their humanity and make sure its there and that they feel like intellectuals, but the bottom line is they're caught up in their own instant needs and watch the rest of the world like its a reality show.

Lack of education and understanding is the source of terrorisim

If some one is interested then I hope this link is useful

http://discover.islamway.com/articles.php?article_id=47

iloveyoutoo said i second ...

qatarita's view.

did your parents teach you to be modest?

Many forms of modesty? But I gather you're reffering to dressing modestly.

In all honesty, not in so many particular terms ,you could say it was implied but never stressed.

Thankfully I came into it of my own will and understanding at my own pace.

Once you read the holy Qur-an you will know that religion choice is up to the people, so please try to read the meanings of the holy Qur-an and here is a link www.islamhouse.com

Khalid, you are a sorry specimen..I have nothing but pity for you, and your spouse ,in case you are married...

you are such a brain dead individual, and you cannot think beyond what your religion teaches you..any person should have a something called free will, and something else called an open mind.. you have neither, and you are doing your religion a disservice by posting such threads ,which provoke people into attacking it..

...Avada Kedavra..

Gangster , non-muslims have a right to comment on Islam, especially if they do not agree. A comment is a questions unanswered...

When you say things like that you imply that Islam is a taboo subject, whereas in this day and age amidst all the negative hype, if anything Islam should be addressed properly, the teachings of Islam do not inhibit questions, au contraire! it invites questions and you I and all other muslims should be prepared to answer as best we can.

Its actually da3wa, and its been going on for centuries, the Prophet Mohammed pbuh and all the prophets before him had dialogue with people, how else would they know?

Yes there comes a point when discussion becomes futile and a lost cause , but you shouldnt resign yourself to that attitude right off.

Would you rather you sidestepped questions and allowed Islam haters to address them?

Qatarita,

Its not really the topic of this post but now that you brought it up and well said:

"you shouldn’t assume that a radical or fanatic Muslim who claims he murders innocent people under a misconstrued banner of Islam is actually practicing Islam, if anything he is disfiguring it."

I wonder why the Muslim world don’t voice loud out in public, their opposition to Islamic Terrorist Groups and their terrorist actions, just like they do it, for example, when somebody draws cartoons of certain characters?

I beg to differ, you cant simply judge a religon by a handful of its followers!

You speak of religon like its a cult, whereas in reality it is the personal relationship between God and man & the accountability that follows.

Albiet Islams teachings are clear, there will always be some (as there are in all religons) who personalise it

thus making it open to interpretation

why do they do that, pray tell?

Because people are individual, siblings born of the same womb rasied by the same parents are diversly different.

Each for his own and it would be ignorant to assume that all muslims are automatically indoctrined into expressing these teachings the same way.

Just as we shouldnt measure up christianity by the few priests who sodomise choir boys.

Or comparatively assume that every american under george bush presidency was as equally as moronic as he was!

For the same reason you shouldnt assume that a radical or fanitic muslim who claims he murders innocent people under a misconstrued banner of Islam is actually practicing Islam, if anything he is disfiguring it.

The only way to judge "the good of a religion" is not just by judging its followers, is actually ignorant, the best way is by reading legitimate sources on the subject and THEN forming your own opinion..

Thats my humble opinion ;)

DeeDee

Thanks for not joing the rest of the world in Islam bashing when you said "Islam, an honorable religion"

Its refreshing when you find a person like DeeDee who forms their own opinion through legitimate sources or simply by reading, someone who isnt shackeled by personal prejiduce or negative media programming

Peace

Well I don't know about Khalids eyes , But behind the glitz and glamour theres theres more than meets the eye regarding Sheikha Mozah and all the'amazing achievements'

Khalid,

you mean like some scholars of some religions are still doing on the 21st century?!

so huck / bode, you changed your nickname again?

how reliable you and what you say, are!

I am just trying to share knowledge, and do you remember that in the early ages in Europe churches were hiding science facts from people and letting them live in darkness so please Dottie do not be like the churches.

Khalid the tiger - words fail me. Your ignorance is stunning. And it's scary to think there are lots of other blinkered, brain-dead neanderthals like you preaching the benefits of Islam. You do your religion a great dis-service believe me.

well ...u know guys i am not really interested in this useless fight ......because i sit on computer to relax not to get more upset by reading your ignorant and crap comment................i am out of here

Good work mods!

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

therapy from a therapist hmm well i dont think if any therapist will be ready to see him.

he needs a bamboo up his you know :D

You can run but you can't hide Tom/Huck/Bode. And you certainly cannot hide from your nasty behavior towards women. A new profile won't solve your problem. You need therapy.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

ROFL Diamond! FINALLY!!! A good reason to wear hijab!!!

well no offense mods.my apology

but you guys really got a dog nose and sniff it out so quickly :D

on his part to be ready with the new profile when he is banned?

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

oh welcome back hucklebery so its you bode baba lola.

COMMENT!

Don't you get it????

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

hijab is to cover up a girl the way islam wants.

no justification.

full stop. take it or leave it.

why bother ladzz?

cheers !

lolzz

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

bode,

isn't it what many do, in the name of islam?

It,s Opening our mind, or Warming Muslims Blood ...?

Again i says to non-muslim friend.Don,t give any comments about islam.First You people should learn.

"THERE IS NO ONE BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD(P.BU.H) IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH"

Hijab and other things comes later........

with. But sometimes when people are so obnoxious posting about their religion and saying how they are the ONLY ones following the TRUE religion; well, then I might be inclined to post a few things. :-)

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Gypsy, bad hair day? That is all the justification you could ever need lol.

-------------------------------------

i think you are better at the poetry topic so better stick to that

Gangster, don't be ridiculous! People can post comments until the cows go home if they feel like it. People also have the right to disagree with what someone else says about a religion. They can say it is all a lot of tosh if they feel like it. You cannot control comments on a public forum unless you work for Admin on the site.

Discussion and debate is good. It can open your mind :D

-------------------------------------

Believe me, if i saw any thread about any religion other then islam , I will ignore it and go to the next thread.

If you want a private Muslim forum then you will need to create one. Qatar Living is open to everyone -- provided you play by the rules.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I have lots of interest in hijab. I'm waiting for a reasonable justification for it. So far no one's been able to give me one.

Qatar Living is not for for everybody.

But

Some thresd are only for muslims.Tell me, non-muslims have any intrest in hijab as Kalid mentioned...?.Sure they don,t know about A,B,C of it.and They don,t like to know also

Yes, but they can argument on it..

In fact, Khalid has been kindly asked to stop by many posters, as well as the mods, on more than one occasion.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

You did not get my Point....

How non-muslim can post comments if the are not agree with islam.Sure they will say something agaist islam.Public form doesn,t menas that anyone say right is wronge.(Especuially in religious matters)Right is always right(FULL STOP)

No futher Comments

Have a Nice Day

If it stays close in one corner and not discussing it in public then how people will know?

since today is my first day,

is preaching prohibited in QL? (though i dont do that coz i dont have the wisdom and knowledge, but if i had, i would have done ofcourse)

cheers !

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

the "MUSLIM ONLY" sign on this thread. It is a public forum for all. If you only want muslims to read it start your own Qatar living, but only for muslims, website. Until then, be prepared for debate. I do think Islam is an honorable religion, but posting stuff like this only sets you up for disagreements. It does NOTHING to further your cause, but only causes harm. Please stop.

and peace

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

and write about sex to me, I wish I wasn't a woman :-(

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Look up Orwell's 1984 and you'll understand.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

what hurts me more is that you both are fighting each other in a time, when muslims should be united to set up a landmark... for ownselves and others...

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

No Gangster, anyone can read and comment on any topic on QL. It's a public forum. You should be prepared for discursive comments from others and that many do not have the same opinion as you.

-------------------------------------

lolzzz

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

Thanks Khalid Tiger.

i think you need to show your medical reports proving that you are a SHE :P

and mashallah you did those all....

PM? shouldn't we appreciate that Khalid did those all?

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

Good Work by Khalid...This Thresd is only for the muslim QL members for thier Information and accurate knowledge.But the some of non-muslims like fuber are gone very deep in it and they brought Her Highness in the discussion as anyone should not use the anyone,s name in general discussion.

It,s a true knowledge of our islam and no one CAN go against it.Some of the matter, you cannot performe 100% but you can try for it without any arguments.Hijab is one of them.

Best Regards,

I follow all the pillars of Islam except haven't made hajj yet. But please do not come on QL and start preaching like Khalid. That does more harm than good.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

And secondly, I did not discuss Coronation Street. I don't know anything about it except that it is a serial/soap opera and not based on real life. I think you have me confused with Mr. Paul and Gypsy.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

i strictly follow # 1 and # 4

should i try to convince any non-muslim?

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

now, PM, its your turn...

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

both PM and Khalid,

before discussing about islam, please do know and follow islam properly.... otherwise you will be hurting islam...

i am not a strict follower but i am afriad of doing 'shirk' 'kufr' 'gibt' every time....

dont fight each other, without knowing PROPERLY, that would only strenghen gyps's point stronger.....

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

1. Believing that there is only one God and that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah

2. Praying

3. Giving Zakat

4. Fasting Ramadan

5. Haj

Thank god I did them all

more information on Islam fundamentals can be found here

http://www.islamhouse.com/p/49766

And you also forgot that there are belief fundamentals and her is a useful link

http://islamtomorrow.com/beliefs/

Coronation Street is NOT a real life program. It's a Soap Opera, which is about as far from real life you can get before entering into science fiction!

but, you sounded to be quite aggresive over the poster...

khalid,

and PM,

both you can, you can tell me (not joking !) how many fundamentals are in islam?

and how many do you follow?

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

I did not say I am performing Dawah, I mainly replied to PM and he is the one who brought it up, and he said that Cornonation Street is a real life program, what does this mean?

It means that what I said is right.

And why do you ask?

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I totaly agree with you,nathotzz.May God bless all of us,where ever we are.

are you muslim???!!!

howdy !

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

You are free to think whatever you want,Gypsy.

Cheers

and in other religions. You will find that we are really behind in the Arab world in this regard, but al hamdulillah through the leadership of people like HRH Sheikha Mozah, we are trying to make up for lost time.

It is obvious now that you are only on QL to ram your ideology down the throats of everybody else by casting the West and non-Muslim world in a very negative light -- a quite inaccurate one at best. Couple that with the fact that you present the Muslim world as so perfect and having all the answers, one can easily be insulted by your actions here. It's so ironic that you see yourself as performing dawah; when in reality you are turning hearts against Islam with every post you make.

Very sad really.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Well bode I looked for some stats but I couldn't find any. At any rate cases of CONSENSUAL father-daughter relationships are rare to say the least. As I don't know anyone involved in one, or have ever heard of anyone involved in one. I'm sure it happens, but it's probably as common here as anywhere.

As for gay marriage? So what?

but some guys do burn their wives when they run out of patience!

i am getting into it, now, serioulsy:

you tried to be logical based on some % ... and your being 'sure'ness...

quote:

You read too many tabloids Khalid. While there are cases of family rape in the UK that exists EVERYWHERE including here. In fact the numbers are probably similar (if it was reported here) And it would defintely not count as "MANY" Nor would "MANY" fathers being trying to have affairs with the wives of his sons.

where do you get those info? how do you get sure of these?

when CNN publishes news about father-daughter relation in germany, texas, you say, those are tabloids?

and, now, your society is supporting marriage of same sex....

everywhere, in africa also, these things happen, i think also in the east... but, in west, its being socialized... and in terms of numberes? WAY ABOVE than even africa....

==========================================

you will get the way you gave, understood?

I agree Brit, but you have to admit if a woman is "restricted" in the West there are options open to her to seek help or correct the restriction.

What fault did they do to be burnt?

Don't they have the right to live?

Also yeasterday I thought what power is there in this earth that keeps the water and prevent it from falling down?

And also how this earth is there in the universe moving in an orbital and not hitting other planets.

Yes, Gypsy, you did come across a bit like Khalid. I was just too polite to say ;)

The trouble with Khalid is that he feels he is one hundred per cent correct on everything and fails to take into account the choice element of life. One chooses how to live and is accountable, or not, according to one's beliefs.

IMHO people like Khalid put people off Islam. It is important to remember that he does not represent everyone.

-------------------------------------

"...So while women in the West can now do all the things men can, Muslim women are still restricted on who they can marry, where they can work, ..."

You are mixing West and Muslim.. Perhaps, West and East would be a better comparison.

Secondly, what you say is fine in theory and possibly legaly, but in reality many societies in the West still "restrict" women. This is more to do with education, upbringing, culture than religion.

LOL! Actually just as I was posting that I remembered where I'd heard that story! It wasn't CSI it was an episode of Law & Order Special Victims Unit. :D

There are people in India and Africa who burn children to make it rain. What's your point Khalid?

(And did you read it in a newspaper or did you see it on an episode of CSI?)

just watch your words, Khalid, "some" is still not proper. "A group of british people in X town" would be much proper, as I think that practice (if real) is not practiced by more than .005% of the population in the UK.

ROFL umm-salayum. I didn't know about that but I've been googling it now and I have to say the motherhood cult is a bit fascinating to say the least. Sounds like a lot of boys who REALLY loved their mommies.

The absence of the good things will bring the bad things, from a philosophy point of view we can say there is nothing such called night and absence of the sun will bring knight and darkness.

Also I forgot to say that I read in the news paper 3 or 4 years ago that some british people buy children from some poor African countries and later on they burn these african children and give them as a sacrifice for the devils.

Do not forget that I said some british and I did not say many.

oops , ok, Gypsy you got me! It was more like this:

Muttertag was first declared an official German holiday in 1933 (the second Sunday in May) and took on a special significance as part of the Nazi motherhood cult under the Hitler regime.

Well, I said he put it in place ,but that was only in Germany of course

Donosa, he isn't even getting his information from a newspaper. He's getting it from a Soap Opera.

"Percentage by far is less than 5% but in England the United Kingdom it is sure more than 50 %"

You ever realized how SILLY it is to make such statements without official statistics??

Just compare population please!

Qatar

Population

- May 2009 estimate 1,652,608 [1]

UK

Population

- 2009 estimate 61,612,300[5] (22nd)

(Source: Wikipedia.org)

"In England many of the fathers are having an affair with their own daughters."

What is many?? Because I know many people (believe me, many), and none of them are sleeping with their daughters, or fathers, or brothers or anything... not even COUSINS.

"In England when a sister is visiting her brother at his home he let her pay for the days she is staying in."

I guess this totally depends on the situation. Sorry, but if someone has the means to support brothers and sisters, that is such a blessing. But most of us don't, so unless they are on vacation, if they live with us, they have to share costs.

"There are alot other bad things in UK and I will be tired to mintion them all."

and in Qatar, and in Mexico, and in........... LONG LIST my friend, as there are sooooo many bad things in this world, and it has nothing to do with religion. The thing is, what makes YOU different?

Taking a headline of a sensationalist newspaper and try to generalize it to the whole non-muslim world, believe me, won't open your mind EVER!

Get out of the bubble you live in, my friend.

I hope every one is happy

That's not what Wiki says....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother's_Day

sorry one correction here, Mothers day was put in place by Adolf Hitler!!! Just to keep it right

Yes Mr. P, I'm 99.5% sure he's talking about Cornonation Street.

I am not a world events data base and I feel happy when people correct me.

If we do not make mistakes then learning will be very difficult.

The killing hounor is their in Jordan, and it is not here.

Oh yeah, cos thats a real life program isnt it.

'Cornich'.....:D

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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

Sorry Diamond, I think I came across sounding a bit like Khalid. My point was that while Islam put forward these "liberations" for women 1600 years ago, there's still a good portion of the Muslim world that doesnt' follow it, and SOME Muslim women are still amongst the most repressed women in the world.

You and many other Qatarias being a bright and shining exception. :)

Gypsy, don't forget that Muslima women do have choices about their lives. What you have said applies to some, perhaps many, but not all.

I believe that a small minority approve of honour killings. The vast majority think it is abhorrent out and out murder...not honour.

As for education, the majority of the Mulsim world believes in the education of women. There are a few notable exceptions such as Afghanistan.

-------------------------------------

Khalid, what is coming over is that you do not have a sense of how different people live across the world. Yes, you may believe and act in one way but you cannot expect everyone to agree with what you do. -------------------------------------

In regards to woman's rights, yes in the PAST women's rights were limited. Now great strides are being taken to change that. So while women in the West can now do all the things men can, Muslim women are still restricted on who they can marry, where they can work, how much money the can make from an inheritence, where they can travel, etc etc etc.

And considering that most of the Muslim world still believes in Honour killings, covering their women in sheets and not letting them get educated I question the changes Islamic teachings made.

As for it being a shame for your sister to rent a room, while I'm sure you think it's a shame for your sister to live on her own, work, etc. So if you're going to force her to live with you I suppose you can hardly ask her to pay.

As for Mother's Day. Mother's day was invented by a card company to sell more cards because they know how much people love their mothers, not because they don't see or care about their mothers. Quite the opposite.

Maybe if you stopped getting your information about the West from Soap Operas like Coronation Street you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.

Khalid is the living sample of what may happen to your children if you educate them inside the box only, with no sense of critical thinking!

Actually, the number of people living with HIV in Qatar is very low, but as a percentage of population it is actually higher than many western countries:

http://data.unaids.org/pub/Report/2008/qatar_2008_country_progress_report_en.pdf

It is very shame to let my sister pay for the room, and If I choose then I would what ever to make her life easy.

I also think that the mothers day came from UK, because in UK they don't see their for one year or more and then they said lets make a day and call it Mothers day, I think these people need to be educated on the meaning of a mother.

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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

The position of women in other religions

While these teachings may not seem very remarkable today, they were revolutionary at the time they were revealed, for Arabs and non-Arabs alike. While Muslim sons were being taught that Paradise lay at their mothers' feet, women in Confucian China were told to obey their fathers, then their husbands, and finally their sons after their husbands' death. Hindu women were declared to be unfit for independence, inherently weak, easily misled, sinful and unintelligent. In Buddhism, women were said to be the personification of evil. At the time, Jews and Christians believed women to be responsible for the downfall of the human race, and considered menstruation and childbirth to be the consequences of a Divine curse. One thousand years after Muhammad, in 1586, French Catholics were still debating whether or not women possessed souls! English Christians burned millions of women alive on the mere suspicion that they were witches. Married women in Europe did not gain the right to own property, obtain a divorce or enter into their own contracts until the 19th century. Not surprisingly, women who found such teachings unreasonable rebelled against them and fought for better treatment. Whereas other women have often had to pit themselves against the authority of a male priesthood, in Islam the dynamics of social change have been quite different.

For more information please go to this web link

http://discover.islamway.com/articles.php?article_id=16

Do you mean Coronation Street? The Soap Opera???

Yes Khalid, the brother may rent the room to her if she is staying for a long time. People in the UK aren't made of money and rent is high, she can work and she can pay for herself. If I was staying with my brother for a long time I would pay rent too.

be what you want to be, practise what you want , dont find fault in others , in every 1000 years there was a prophet and he said he was the last one , now what

He rent the room for her, so she will have to pay as if she is staying in a hotel.

Ok those from UK are sure watching the TV series which is called cornich.

The cornich discuss many of the points which I mintioned already.

Why dicussing these points in a TV series? Sure because the percentage is high in UK.

As Diamond said, there is good and bad in all societies and all peoples.

As Umm-Salayum pointed out, there are guidelines within Islam and other religions on norms of behaviour and living.

Whether we choose to follow these guidelines or live by the rules of a specific religion is up to us.

But at least steps are taken to remedy the bad stuff.

And corrupt MP's arent helping the situation.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

You read too many tabloids Khalid. While there are cases of family rape in the UK that exists EVERYWHERE including here. In fact the numbers are probably similar (if it was reported here) And it would defintely not count as "MANY" Nor would "MANY" fathers being trying to have affairs with the wives of his sons.

"In England when a sister is visiting her brother at his home he let her pay for the days she is staying in."

Well I'm not sure what the issue with that is, I'm sure it has more to do with asking for money for food, etc. If I stayed with my brother he would ask me to buy my own food as he can't afford to feed both of us.

As for the ladie who left her money to her cats, yes there are crazy people everywhere. In Qatar there's a guy blowing his millions on turning his house into a giant dinosaur.

Again there is AIDS here, and amongst Qatari's the rate is actually quite high (given the small population of Qatari's).

The brother & sister have a relationship, well that too happens everywhere, and I gurantee you it's happening here.

ROFL...there are negatives in each and every country under the sun...and this part of the world is no exception.

-------------------------------------

What you say could be right and the percentage is by far is less 5 % but in England the United Kingdom it is sure more than 50 %

In England many of the fathers are having an affair with their own daughters.

Many fathers are trying to have an affair with the wives of their sons.

In England when a sister is visiting her brother at his home he let her pay for the days she is staying in.

In England and from the host family which I stayed with them told me that there was a british woman who decided to give all her fortune to the cat and not to her sons or daughters.

Aids is there in UK by a high percentage, in UK one of my friends told that there was a sister who is having an affair with her brother (UK nationalities).

There are alot other bad things in UK and I will be tired to mintion them all.

Prostitution - Very rife here.

Teen pregnancy - seen it here.

Divorces - very common here.

Hate in families - hahaha - are you kidding me??

Hate between Muslims- Lots of rioting going on as to whos the best.

No respect for family - ditto.

Extra independence which lead to problem like late night partying - You've obviously never been to the Coral beach club here!

Drugs - Rife, as its brought in over the saudi causeway.

Alcohol - government run monopoly,and the hotels owned by the Royals.

Aids - there's AIDS patients here.

Nudity/Sex out of marriage - Just last week, two Bahrainis caught by police having sex in a car.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

prostitution - seen it here

teen pregnancy - seen it here

divorces - very common here

pron [sic] video industry - believe it or not... it's here

hate in families - hahaha - are you kidding me??

no respect for family - ditto

extra independence which lead to problem like late night parting [sic] - I've been to quite a few good private Qatari majlises/bars, much better than the bars in hotels!

drugs - been to a beach party lately?

alcohol - government run monopoly

aids - there's an AIDS clinic, and AIDS patients here

nudity - Sealine, 4am... you'll find it on the beaches

600 you'd better go out and round up all those "Muslim" kids who are out doing all those things here at 4:00 am. Every single one of the things you mentioned there happens here too. Ever been to Bahrain?

Khalid can you advise me If I am allowed to wear my Speedo's on Public Beaches in Qatar. Thanks

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

... i asked for informative purposes, coz i could have given you some website's name.... anyhow, good to see that its been already served.... best of luck ... may Allah bless you...

I did reply. I read it and kept it in my heart. I have no arguments for umm's post, I kindly asked for some info and she kindly gave me some... I thanked her.

end of the story.

600.....get your maid to type next time. she'd make more sense than you.

... and another point you missed..... incest relationship ....:)

who is shameless about perverted behavior behind his wife's back.

Oh yes, we have these issues in the so-called Muslim world, too :-(

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

LMFAO 60056363......if that's what makes you sleep at night then so be it.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

you missed some other points... gay marriage...

after seeing the western countries and there people and probes they are facing like ......prostitution , teen pregnancy, divorces, pron video industry , hate in families, no respect for family , extra independence which lead to problem like late night parting , drugs, alcohol ,aids, nudity and other several issue .........

i am so so so so so so happy to be Muslim

i will never ever want to be like westerns or live in countries where you don't know at 4.00 in morning where are your kids are...

you didn't reply....

are you sure you want to learn about islam?

Where on earth do you get such foolish ideas?

France has been firmly Catholic for over 1000 years.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

...

That is FAR a better post than the original thread, something different and down to earth... something WE all can relate to, BELIEVERS and NON-BELIEVERS!!

Thank you so much for sharing that with me!

for the sake of Allah means to follow his command and therefor get His reward in this life and the next... for the sake of Allah is only for HIM , not for the ppl or show or anybody or anything else. Not confusing for me

apparently to prevent the men from sinning. I guess the right ones are the ugly ones that look nicer when they are covered. Bad joke. Seriously, modesty implies not to show your voluptuos curves? what if you cannot help it? one can not always hide it!

I understood that it's not for the sake Allah, but for their sake, to avoid men's sinful looks... Why does it have to be so confusing???!!!!

not so glad , the one that has the most modesty (modesty in actions and behavior and also dressing modest) and does it for the sake of Allah alone, that simple :)

So our dear topic creator, which ladies are being right to the eyes of God, the abaya-wearers with lots of makeup, the blue coke-like bottles walking in Afganistan, the modern turkish and iranies? which ones have the right attire? Please, enlighten us!

Khalid, are you talking about a Christian era in France, or an earlier era??

All the Kings since Charlemagne have been Catholic, I thought, so not sure about this idea that the king was the peoples' connection to God.

Perhaps if you told us which King you were referring to we could discuss it further.

dear Donosa, here are some teachings for the Muslims about good manners and good character, extra for you:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: "The Prophet never used bad language neither a 'Fahish nor a Mutafahish. He used to say 'The best amongst you are those who have the best manners and character.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 759)"

"Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loves Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah: "Allah's Apostle said, 'Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to mankind.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED), Volume 9, Book 93, Number 473)"

The Muslim needs to always be polite, humble, patient, loving and well mannered when he/she deals with others, whether they were Muslims or non-Muslims. Allah Almighty certainly doesn't love those who are offensive and rude to others.

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "Anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should not harm his neighbor, and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should talk what is good or keep quiet. (i.e. abstain from all kinds of evil and dirty talk). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 47)"

Allah Almighty commands us not to be stuck-up. He commands us to be laid back and down to earth type of people.

Let us look at Noble Verse 17:37 "Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou can not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height."

"And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for God loves not any arrogant boaster. (The Noble Quran, 31:18)"

"O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong. (The Noble Quran, 49:11)"

"And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honor. And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small." (17:23, 24)

And those are only a very few teachings of Islam

I hope you like it

Well, I think the "French Connection" it's a bit irrelevant. And it's also not accurate. The king at that time (if my memory isn't too slow now) was Ludovic (Louis en.) the 14th . He proclaimed himself as King Sun and God. The people adored him and followed him as a king. His ACTIONS were those of a God, but people have never seen a God in him. He died and he was moaned, but God existed since then, ,since ever and will continue to exist until the end of time. No matter how WE call(name) HIM.

In France the people were following one king and the king was the connection between the people and God, and when the knig died, the God disappeared since then for the french people.

Correct me if I am mistaken.

Right on the spot donosa! Congrats for your way of thinking and allow me to humbly share your opinion and beliefs.

Salam, pace, namaste, shalom (they all share and spread the same message). It's people who mistakenly convert this message and take it against other people. Or sometimes it's deliberate and this comes against all beliefs and religions. I am Christian by birth, and I respect and try to follow Islamic ways as well, since I am living in Muslim countries for the past 8 years. Does it make me a bad Christian? NO. Does it make me a Muslim? NO! Does it mean that I am an Atheist ? NO. I believe there is a greater entity above all mankind and within myself I say "There is only one God!" PERIOD

well Gypsy, that is your belief and we respect it. As long as everyone (believers and non-believers) are good people with each other... because THAT should be our religion...

At the end of the day, I'd rather go to hell for dressing however I want and knowing that I'm a good person because of the way I respect and help others, than going to heaven covering from feet to toe and being probably a bad person...

that's just my opinion.

are you sure you want to learn?

I disagree Micu. I don't think there's any God in the world.

I can't believe how people can argue that much about RELIGION on a forum.You are muslim and you are christian and you are I don't know what.Stop it for God's sake.THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD IN THE WORLD!!!!!

Khalid the tiger, would you please post a thread about what the Qur'an says about respecting people, doing good deeds and being a good person with others, because with this threads you make non-muslim people believe that Islam is just about restrictions. I am a non-muslim, and never heard that the Qur'an commands you to be good to each other, that God wants you to help the needed, etc. Because I'm very curious to know what the Qur'an says about human rights. All we get is this silly threads that we kind of already read tons of times...

In a few words: is there anything else in the Qur'an other than haram and halal? Please DO share those...

BritExpat..

What! you are also wearing a yellow hardhat? We know that you wear a pink thong..

Now that remind me of Village People group, the man in the video of the YMCA song..:)

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

He..he.. I was talking about myself :)

The only different between a Whale and me is that Whale is not bald..lol

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

Its not the Nudity that i'm worried about. Its the misconception that a whale may have beached itself :(

No problem PM, will notify on QL, the next time I am wearing them.

The problem is that my bulging tummy hides the front of the speedo's, it is not a good sight lol, I don't want to be thrown in jail for nudity on public beach..:)

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

to avoid that problem :-)

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

It seemed to be a final, PM, so not sure when to expect them on tv again.

However, the fact that there are water polo teams playing in Saudi seems to endorse the use of speedos as acceptable, right?

I've also been amused that the Saudi team's athletics outfit is white and green - white down the front and green stripes down the sides.

All the other major team uniforms that I can think of are black, blue or some other dark color, for a very practical reason... lycra doesn't leave much to the imaginiation, but at least a dark color makes it tougher to see 'what lies beneath'.

A white lycra outfit leave NOTHING to the imagination...

Modest dress indeed!

Its a matter of choice really. You cannot force people to do what you do. Travel extensively and see culture in various parts of the world. You can see the odds of dressing. But one thing for sure..we are not alone in this world.

Speedos are definitely not in keeping with Islamic dress.

Could you call me next time you see them play? :-)

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I saw a Water Polo match broadcast on Saudi Sport. It was two Saudi teams playing.

Are men supposed to be allowed to wear speedos like that in Saudi?? I thought there was some 'navel to knee' restriction for me?

If you want to know more please go Islamic web sites such as

www.islamway.com

www.islamweb.net

Or at least warn us of time and place, UKEng!

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

That's why he feels the need to make these stupid remarks on every post.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Thank you PM. I think if every Muslim thought like you, it would be a much better religion.

followers. To clarify, I mean that I think we should judge the religion as it is interpreted and practiced by the majority of its followers, however far off the mark from what was intended by the creator of that religion.

I think FLDS Mormons represent what FLDS Mormonism is. Whether that is what Joseph Smith had in mind or not is another issue (in that case, I suspect it is). I also think it is legitimate for people to question/challenge Islam based on the behavior of its followers. We Muslims DO represent Islam -- however rightly or wrongly.

I think the endless refrain I hear from fellow Muslims not to judge Islam based on Muslims' behavior is apologist and a way of not addressing the fact that the way we interpret and implement our religion needs reform. (At least in my opinion)

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

If the proof is not in our hand, then this does not mean that what is not infront of us does not exist.

But there are signs and facts that tells us that this thing exist.

One of my french friends says he believes in experience !!

Gypsy I really would like to invite you to read the books of Malcom X, on Amazon.com

And I agree completely. We all choose which paths we follow.

No puns intended, I really meant it is the choices we make for ourselves that determined who we are, and what path we want to follow, including being human or not.

The only one thing I know of that I have no hands in is my birth, even my death can be staged. (Suicide)

Salam

Now you're playing with the words human & humanity. You said: "If I judged humans by their deeds, wouldn't want to be one, and would rather be an animal or a bird, much better for me! I am serious." To which I said you can't choose if you're a human or a bird or a dog. You're born what you are.

Yes people choose how they want to behave in this world, and they look for things to guide them, so THEY choose the religion THEY follow, and depending on the nature of those people they follow a certain one. Therefore you can judge the religion based on the nature of those who choose to follow it.

u can judge islam or any other religion only by its true followers, those who follow it completely,

if a person says i m a muslim, it is not necessary he follows islam from the depth, many muslims will not give u the true picture of islam, and from so many followers how do u know which one is rightly following it, many people though muslim lack knowledge about islam, and are muslims just because there parents are, and they dont even follow it as it should be followed, nor do they find out about it, this doesnt mean islam is wrong, its the people at fault, if u look at such people indeed u r going to get the wrong picture of islam, if u want to know wat is the real message of islam, what are indeed its true practices, then u must go for quran and ahadeeth, every one who follows a religion follows it as per their knowledge of religion to the best of their ability, we all r not perfect, those who strive for perfection, go a step further to find out about it and practice it wholeheartedly with firm belief,

-------------------------------------------------------

i want to learn until i die, if u have some knowledge then share it with me.

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You seriously think that all those 2-legged creatures with little brain are humans? They're people (mankind), but you choose to make yourself human, yes. If we all were, this world would've been a constant preview of Heaven, Gypsy, that's not the case at all.

So, it is our choices we make for ourselves.

Salam

Well the difference there is that you don't choose humanity, and you do choose which religion you follow or which career path you follow. So, for example, if most Business consultants are frauds, then, by nature consultancy is mostly a fraud. If most piolts are risk takers, then I would say flying an air craft is risky. If most actors are shallow, then acting must be shallow. etc etc etc.

Khalid, in my opinion they were all created by men.

What are you saying Gypsy is only right if the people them selves had put the religion.

The Islam, christianity, Jews are the original religions, but today there are many which are made by people as Hindu or Budha for example.

If I judged business consultancy by current consultants, wouldn't want to become one, because they're mainly on to FRAUD. (QL consultants will kill me now)

If I judged humans by their deeds, wouldn't want to be one, and would rather be an animal or a bird, much better for me! I am serious.

Salam

I was born to Christianity and I saw it for what it was. I see the same for any religion.

My point is though, that like it or not EVERYTHING is judged, in part, by it's followers, whether it's a business, a religion, a philosophy or a theory. You really can't seperate it.

Do what you think is right, just keep searching. Please bear in mind that I didn't exert any effort in being a Muslim, I was born with it, the effort I did and still endeavoring is to become a good one.

You weren't born with it, so your journey is harder than mine, specially if you're not convinced with who you are or what you have. I guess this is the same reason why Allah pointed out that those who struggle more, would feel the sweetness of the truth they've found or been guided to, that's a reward in itself.

Salam

:-(

Thank you Leelah, I always like to be reminded the Hell has to be filled by someone. As always, people like you are bright and shining examples of why I stay away from religion.

I'm not taking it as anything Huck, I just find it annoying because when I go back to Recent Posts it says one new post and when I click on it it's just you saying Good or Bravo or something. It's kind of annoying.

Happy Happy, What can I say, a certain person is attracted to a certain kind of thing. Certain people are attracted to Scientology because of what it's teachings are, and certain people are attracted to Islam because of what it's teachings are. I look at the people, I look at the teachings and I judge for myself. Do I really want to be one of those people?

Islam is the truth because we simply believe it is, you believe it or not.

And GOD doesn't have to set us on the right path , it is up to us to follow the right path or not.

Because this life is a test for us ( Muslims) , so if we were on the right path all the time and wouldn't sin, then there is no need for testing, right?

Like I said we do what we can and we will be judged for our intentions and also actions.

And Allah is the most Merciful.

But you believe different no need to convince you.

its the folowers who messes it up.our God showed us the way to follow.He is not going to hold our hands to set us on the right path.its our own choice now plus don't forget, hell has to be filled by someone.

I would read about Scientology, then compare what followers are doing.

If I judged Islam by its followers, I wouldn't want to become one. I'm speaking for Muslims, because I'm one.

Salam

no.... :-)

you remember, whenever i found your answer more logical, i also expressed that?

dont take it otherwise please....

Huck are you trying to increase your points or something?

Well look at it this way. Would you not judge Scientology by the people it attracts?

happy

Let's say we've been schooled and taught the same subject, by the same teacher and been through the same exam, our scoring is never the same and will never be, although all conditions are the same, but you and I are not.

There are two sorts of competition, I either want to break you to be or look better, or encourage you to make the competition more honest and harder.

Salam

... good answer, logical.

But if Islam was the "truth" and the "right way" shouldn't everyone follow it perfectly. Again, where's your God to set them on the right path?

what a silly question Gypsy. ppl are different , some are stronger then others , some are smarter then others for some things come easy, some have to work hard to get the same thing done.

that is just the way it is. we got strong believers, and weak believers, we got Muslims that find it easy to cover and some that find it hard to cover.

just that simply.

some are more sinful then others.

we do what we can to the best of our ability, nobody is perfect or the perfect believer , just that easy .....

Why do you do the things you do?

because it comes easy for you, and it feels right .....

... i liked your answer...

So why isn't everyone else doing the same thing if it's in the book?

I got it all from my Book, I was not taught anything else throughout my life. It has it all. I didn't make it up, nor did my family or tutors, elhamdul'Allah.

Salam

In my book, self-improvement in relation to people, is to try to better understand them, more than trying to prove myself right or better. I'd like to also be a good messenger for whatever values I stand for, or want to represent. Wherever I go, whether I liked it or not, I'm an ambassador of my country and religion!

That's my own reading and actual practice.

Salam

I'm afraid that's not the reading or the practice of most people I've met Happy Happy, and speaks better of you as an individual then of your religion.

khalid is not forcing his religion on anybody at all. Why would he have to do this, the truth it the truth masha allah

he is simply sharing some info or advice , he wishes only well ....

and there are a lot of muslims on the forum , just not as active like the rest of you guys

I agree that the same can be said for Judaism, Christianity, Sciencetology or Wicca. Frankly I don't think there's too many people out there that make their religion look good, and I'm wondering where their God is to set them straight?

Happy Happy our definitions of self improvement would probably be very different. I'm sure for you, my improving myself, would involve following the teachings of some religion.

:-)

Where is the Book for atheism? I want to be able to judge all atheists against it..:).

Born to waste your time on judging! if that same amount of time is spent on self-improvement, lots of good would come out of that.

Salam

As I said,, IMHO Khalid is a minority.

As an Athiest, i would expect you to be against religion - As is your right.

If you use the premise that the "Best "Proof" of a religion is its followers", then the same can be said for Christianity and even Judaism.

I sense that your argument is not so much with the followers of Islam as the guidelines and principles of Islam itself. Again, I would say that it is your right.

.. well said...

Well Brit, I do judge people who try to force their religion on others, like Khalid. And from what I can see very few Muslims, and not just the one's on this site, follow their religion the way it's taught, which makes me wonder at it's effectiveness.

At the end of the day I believe the best "proof" of a religion is its followers, and for the most part I don't agree with the followers of Islam.

mmyke if this tread is nothing for your personal interest , don't read or don't bother with it, that is all you have to do. No need to make him stop doing it , since there are a lot of Muslims on this forum as well. And after all this is a islamic country .

In a country where the weather is usually warm to hot, you would have lots of questions and maybe staring at a woman who's always dressed in long sleeves. You didn't exactly judge her, but you might have branded her as a wacko, weird, or you would even think maybe there is something wrong with her arms..:)

Or when you see a man swimming in long slacks, for some reason.

None of the above has anything to do with religion, it's cultural.

Salam

"However, do most Muslims follow the above directions on how to dress and do they make judgements about others based (both Muslims & non-Muslims) on these dress codes?"

On the first I believe they do. On the second I believe they don't.

Remember that there are over a Billion Musl;ims in the world. We are focusing on a minority who like to voice their opinions through this medium.

what Khalid the tiger is doing, is called Daw 'ah , inviting ppl to Islam , giving advice or even a reminder for some ppl ( Muslims) nothing wrong with that. Masha allah that ! that is the way it should be . Why ppl here always take it personal or have to be negative about it , take it or leave it . It was nothing personal ,like we Muslims say the reminder benefits the believer.

Jazaka allahu khairan Khalid

this sort of stuff makes a person end up hanged in a closet in Thailand.

Please do not post any of this anymore!!

MODERATORS, please make another section on QL for these people to carry on their own converstaion.

What if those not of khalid's religion or opinion actually started to write what we feel about it instead of being polite,,,,what would happen then???

So much for acceptance and accomodation of other culture's views and opinions.

So much for that one.

All the best, and please make a new place for them..

Sadly, too many wars have been fought in the name of religion. Leaders find it all too easy to manipulate the masses to lay down their lives on this issue :(

But it really doesn't take from the minority. I wouldn't say all Muslims are sucide bombers or even that Islam promotes it, it's obvious that it doesn't. However, do most Muslims follow the above directions on how to dress and do they make judgements about others based (both Muslims & non-Muslims) on these dress codes?

the better imaginary friend.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

You have a point. I realise that as an Atheist , it suits your purposes, but why judge only by focusing on the actions of a minority?

Taking this route, you could pick up mostly negatives about Judaism, Islam, Christianity and even Hinduism.

You are from Canada; A nation of immigrants and multiple faiths (including Atheism). Would you arguments be valid for the majority of Muslims or Christians in Canada ?

If I did, I would've been stranded in no where by now, especially that one's ultimate sense of belonging to a group, organization, country, may blind us from the real mission, and redirect us to fights, wars, sabotage….etc.

Salam

How can you not judge a religion based on it's followers? The whole purpose of a religion is to guide people, so the only way to judge how good of a religion it is is by judging the people who follow it.

Forgot to add that this also enables me to put up with certain Muslims, I'm not in agreement with..:)

Salam

Never judge any religion by its people or common practices. I never did, never will do. This is how I keep my respect for Christianity and Judaism, and I’m a Muslim, not to mention being able to co-exist with people from all other affiliations, whom are totally offensive to my beliefs, but I might be to theirs too.

Not much sanity in the world, believe me, East or West.

Salam

I know lustiano. Everytime Khalid posts I'm happier and happier not to be Muslim.

Judging by people like Khalid, I thank GOD that I wasn't born Muslim!

I see you are back. It's been so pleasant here without you.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

you just wait for khalid to post on that subject matter...lol

wont u khalid?

There is no dress code for men and we have no idea how to protect men from the lustful gaze of women:((((((

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

Noor

what are these if they are not source?

Source is QURAN

Please stop plagiarizing Khalid. As a Muslim, you should know that you are essentially stealing someone else's words when you copy/paste without crediting your source.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

they make a 100%...

so is that what i tell them?

really???

for real for real?

Assalam Alaikum Khalid Brother your post is appreciable.Now a days womens trying to adopt different culture,but your post will make them realize that they are muslim and people who comment you were not muslim,they dont know the place of women in Islam,they thing women and men equal and spoil their life like public property....Am sorry to those who get hurt by my post but its true,Friend just think why your wife should talk with other guy and go with him and talk and laugh and much more,is it your broad minded mind.huh,thats nothing but a swapping.

anyways khalid brother may allah gives you much much blessing please post some post which can help us.forget nonmuslims.

some people know what is right and what is wrong and some does not.

At the end it is all clear and yo either take it or leave it.

Women are one half and man is another half and together they make 100 %.

i design abayas and sheelas.so what do i tell them?

do i tell all my clients that its not right for them to wear tight fitting abayas that are open from waist down?

do i tell all of my clients that its unattractive to put bling-blings on their abayas?(or what the university students call them these days)

do i tell all my clients to strictly adhere to the guidelines or else?

so what do i tell them exactly?

look, it's fair now. Khalid & eco , thinks Qatari men are infidels too. They wear long thobs ;)

sure you know this hadith right?

you want to say its all depends on niyah? I dont agree with YOU...any garment dragging is not acceptable PERIOD

"The reason for this strictness is so that the woman is protected from the lustful gaze of men" THIS IS SICKENING!

Please grow up & stop staring at women lustfully. I have been told many times these kind of stuffs by friends who share common thought as you, and my question always have been is that all you find in women? Are they just for lustful gaze???? Why create a society so very obsessed with women that they need these protections ???

Any answers?

Isbaal is haram if people do it to show that they are high class and that others are less than them, this behavior is called (Taka-bor). Those who say Isbaal will lead to Kuffer are people who have a very big lack in Islam massage and principals.

You're entitled to post whatever topic of your liking, within QL's Guidelines, if someone doesn't like it, they have two options, to not participate in your thread, or to respond and argue with you, and get ready to answer.

There's a third and even a better option, is for them to unsubscribe from QL!. Your post here is well approached, regardless of my opinion.

Keep posting with quality..:)

Salam

unluckily i am breathing among perverts

whats bothering me Men's dress code. What about isbaal

It is haraam for the Muslim man to let any garment he wears hang down beneath his ankles.

All muslim men resemble KUFFAR

I just high light some Islam standards regarding the dress of a Muslim woman.

A Muslim should be good from inside before outside.

Please open your mind more widely and read all my replies (not the post topics).

Not exactly but I think you want to make fun snowyowl, remember fingers are not equal, people are different not all people are the same, this is life as there is sugar and salt for example land and water (sea/river/lake/ocean) land and sky, day and night.

Now I know why guys stare....they can only look once as it is haram to look twice!

smile lots laugh more

you are a man obsessed with things others are not. Please post your items somewhere else.

Hogwash I say ol' chum,,,,:)

When some one says an opinion or post a certain topic does it mean that people should follow it?

No people are free and I am posting it for those who want to know.

It is very clear to me that some people are close minded and their brain is like stone.

Who reads they holy Qur-an will know and see that there is clear sentence which indicates that there is no force in religion selection, the religion is a choice which people may decide to take it or not.

Some people unfortunately have a lack in their personality for example when some people speak about a bad person, the person who is having lack in his personality will always think that people are speaking about him.

beholder!

MKhalifa,

Do you say that (clarify wrong notions, educate etc) because you know what Khalid wrote is 100% accurate?

And if what Khalid says is 100% accurate, why is there such a diversity of female attire in Islamic countries?

Thats a copout for sure, guys can wear shorts and T shirts out and about but ladies have to be fully covered to stop drooling perverts eyeing them up.

By Khalid's law then, I would guess 80% of Bahrainis are not true Muslims......I dont think they would like to hear Khalid say that to their faces tho'

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

Khalid is clearly trying to convert all women to his preferred style of dress in order to avoid the obsession he has with seeing women's bodies.

"Women protected from the lustful gaze??? " Ummm... let me see, that, perhaps is the man's issue, not the womans. Which according to Khalid's very descriptive and non subtle conversion techniques simply reinforces the fact that he's generalizing that men cant control themselves. Everytime I read stuff like this... it only looks bad for all men.... not just the few that try to justify it through writings. Its unfortunate.

As for HH, I think its great how she dresses and honestly sets the tone for muslim women in up and coming countries. Its fabulous!

But, I guess its also like everyone judges Queen Elizabeth and the new US First Lady on their garb..... something to talk about. They won't please the Christians or the Protestants or the Hindus or whatever... so, guess they just go along with what they feel is best... which is exactly what most women do.

Brin

wearing abaya's not in accordance with the standards.

#5: no bold designs

I see lots of colorful sequin designs all over the abaya's nowdays. I think they are rather beautiful.

let people wear what they want.

Stop trying to ram this stuff down our throats Khalid the tiger--you are turning off more people from Islam, an honorable religion, than you are impressing.

If we want to know about Islam, we will go to a legitimate source, such as a mosque or Fanar center. Not some poster on an internet site. STOP PLEASE!

Khalid pls provide the dress code for males.

or is it that you havent come across the same?

Genesis,

I'm trying to stick up for good, decent people like Sheikha Mozah who devote their life to the service of others, and yet are still accused of being bad or immoral or whatever because they don't meet with some anonymous blogger's idea of appropriate clothing.

I find this little troll's accusations that women like her are bad role models to be insulting. Can't he just leave well enough alone and let people live their lives in peace?

what's in it for you?

as you said, you're not Muslim. It's obvious from Khalid yesterday's post,That he just copy/paste to create controversy. Please don't feed the troll...

What does it matter whether I agree with Islam or not? I'm not Muslim.

I just think it's such a brave thing to sit here and post threads accusing women - such as Sheikha Mozah - of being un-Islamic because they don't cover all their hair, or because they wear pant suits.

You are mistaken. This is the religion whether you agree with it or not. How each individual decided to practice it, its personal.

Because he is implying that women who don't conform to these (his) standards are not true Muslims.

Well if you're going to point fingers are women for behaving inappriopriately (by Khalid's standards) then he better accept that he has to include Sheikha Mozah in this group.

Because despite all her tremendous humanitarian work, and all her amazing acheivements, she is still a 'flawed' woman in Khalid's eyes, because she doesn't dress properly, according to him.

What does Her Highness have to do with this thread?

The thread is educational for those who argue Islam and its practices. Thank you Khalid the tiger for this post. Jazak Allah Khair inshallah.

Khalid, I wish that day would come, where men would focus on something else other than describing every detail in a woman's body!

Fubar, What brought Her Highness into discussion now? he was talking about women in general, from his perspective.

Salam

finish with your post?? ALLELUYAH! AMEN!!

Khalid,

Are you going to send this to Sheikha Moza and tell her:

1 - Cover your fringe, only your hands and face should be visible;

2 - Stop wearing clothes that aren't loose and hide your body shape;

3 - Stop wearing pant suits that resemble man's clothing.

Are you trying to give everyone the impression that Sheikha Mozah is a bad woman because of her clothing?

Are you trying to give everyone the impression that the Emir is a bad man because his wife wear's inappropriate clothing (according to you)?

Why do you keep posting this stuff? Are you obssessed with woman or something?