freedom to criticise religion...
Media centre urges rejection of resolution
Source ::: THE PENINSULA
DOHA: The Doha Centre for Media Freedom (DCMF) has urged the UN Human Rights Council to reject a draft resolution by Islamic countries condemning criticism of religion, saying it was “an unacceptable violation” of international agreements about freedom of expression.
Such freedom was only possible if religion could be “discussed and criticised freely” in accordance with Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Centre said.
The Council’s “credibility would be destroyed” if the resolution was passed, it said, urging the 47 member-states not to be “naively fooled “by the arguments of the Islamic countries when it was discussed on the last two days of the Council’s session in Geneva, on March 26 and 27.
The resolution, tabled on March 11 by Pakistan on behalf of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), calls “defamation of religions” a “serious affront to human dignity leading to (...) incitement to religious hatred and violence.”
http://thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=Local_News&month=M...
Yeah I remember the last question you had, when I posted a link to the resolution... And your point is?... DUH!
But anyway... what is your question? shoot...
At least I am funny. I will answer your question when you answer all the ones I have put to you.
Over to you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
'funny' is better than 'racist'
Thanks for yet another funny post. Look forward to more.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Penny... What is this so called crap that I have posted on the West that you charge me of? Care to give me specific comments?
When did I ever talk of imperialism or colonialism?
And since when did talking about imperialism and colonialism become racist anyway?
I have approached this topic most objectively and I have defended my faith as I am entitled to do so
But I also know that you have not been able to keep up so you've just reduced yourself to slandering... pick out the comments that I have made which you are holding me responsible for... You THINK I am saying these things and you THINK I am attacking the west because you have been subconsciously programmed to hate Muslims like me and no matter how well I reason with you... all you can see is hate, hate, hate...
as for the comment that you did point out, it applies to ANYONE who is unqualified or has a credit problem... and it is NOT racist...
You can ridicule me all you want, but you just cannot ridicule the the idea that I have brought to this thread... and its not just cos its logically consistent (which it is) but also because the concept is just too complex for you to comprehend...
Thank you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
How bad are them 2,, shame on them.. give it to them..the racist scum...no place for them in QL .. and as for advocatefk you are as much Indian as I am American.. wanker...
Taslima's life in exile commenced when she left Bangladesh in 1994 to avoid trial as she was charged with blasphemy. As of 2008, Taslima has been living in exile for more than 14 years. Though she is still a citizen of Bangladesh, she has in the meanwhile been awarded Swedish citizenship. She enjoyed living in developed countries like France and Sweden where she had the freedom of speech and could choose a life style that she preferred. But as time passed by she became eager to return home. But she could not return to Bangladesh since she did not have a valid Bangladeshi passport anymore. In 1993, when she appeared at the airport for traveling to India, her passport was confiscated by the Bangladeshi immigration department on a charge of attempting to hide her real profession as a civil servant. However, when after she left Bangladesh in 1994, Bangladesh Embassies abroad declined to renew her passport and at once stage the validity of her passport expired. In this circumstances she decided to move to Calcutta in the state of West Bengal, India that shares a common heritage and language with Bangladesh. She enjoyed living in Calcutta where she could speak in her mother tongue.[27] The government of India extended her visa to stay in India on a periodic basis. Visa given by the Indian government although Taslima requested the Indian government to grant her Indian citizenship.[28] After a huge agitation that spread over October and November, she was forced to leave Calcutta and the government of India kept her in an undisclosed location near New Delhi. In March 2008, Taslima decided to leave India and returned to Sweden. Incidents in India during 2007 prompted Taslima to begin writing a new book to be titled Narir kono desh nei” (tr. A woman has no
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
taslimanasrin.com
And i am fighting legal battles against many giants for my religion and my belief, and you are zilch if i compare you in front of them, I am party to many litigations in Indian courts for defamation of my religion....... i have personally sued Taslima Nasreen.......... and stupid like her and still i am in between war.
Checked her out too. You say you are 24, been a Lawyer for one year. So good so far. Lived in England for 2 years doing your MA. So that means you were 21 when you went to England. Before that I presume University in India?
This lady you are fighting, the link is above, she has lived abroad for many years as a Fatwa was issued against her. Yes, she has been back in India but is actually living in America now.
How did you manage to sue her?
You have had a busy life.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I wish to apologize to anybody I offended by my tea-boy statement or any other comments made by myself.
The apology however is not extended to or for Advocat or Hasin.
You two speak of racism? How dare you. I have sat here and seen the crap you two have posted regarding the West (and all our problems), go on and on about Colonization and Imperialism. Is that not racist? Yes it is but we have to take it from you have we not?
Get that bloody big chip of your shoulder and stop being victims. Those days are long gone. Nothing to do with our generation.
You talk of bigotry and yet you two are the biggest bigots on QL as far as I can see.
*** From Hasin**
Again Penny, you make one of those statements... Indians working as tea boys... I can only imagine that your resentment towards Indians should be because in real life, you or your better half must be getting a real run for your money professionally by some well qualified Indians, such insecurity... I've seen so many of your types... fly in one fine day, big salaries, zero knowledge, no relevant experience, big house, swanky car, even bigger loan, bluff gets caught and then wham!! Need to go home, Garage sale, personal emergency Bye Bye...
You say things like that and you don’t expect a backlash?
As I have said before, don’t give it, if you can’t take it.
From Advocat
**Insult.......? You are an insult by default on Humanity!! It is an irony that people like you are also termed as human beings!!
You see, you two honestly think you can come out with anything and not get attacked back?
YOU play the racist card when you like. You have said far worse things in this thread. But hey, we will sit back and take it because if we fight back, we are seen as racist, bigots, mentally ill, from the sinful West, Zionists, Imperialists and a whole load of other BIGOTED RACIST remarks from you two.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
this advocate person is such a giant douchebag
By the way who is this “someone”……? Please clarify!
I don’t know who has better extent of imaan……as it can be judged by Allah only.
As a Muslim you should be aware that terming other Muslims as without imaan is prohibited by Islam.
I am too surprised by your knowledge of Islam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Move to positive way my dear…..
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Advocate: As someone already said, the new converts can be better that the ones that were born muslims, because they cared to leurn about religion, as far as i know, you aren't an Iman, and i'm proud to say that the Iman and other people present during my re-convertion were positivelly surprised with my knowledge towards Islam, so, i have been ignoring your replies, but i think it would be good to clarify this.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
page 10 and counting..... i am surprized too that this thread is still open. judging by the posts, it is no wonder that the world is a mess. calling MODs...
mo lang!
And regrettably governments in democracy are believed to represent its people!!!!! Nevertheless, people can not be held responsible for the prevailing ignominy…
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Roadtester….
Read my posts earlier in this thread….. Never had I blamed entire west for the fiasco prevailing in Palestine in particular and Muslim world in general.
I am of the view that supine Zionists are prevailing over USA foreign policies and this is basically the catastrophe. There is no denying of the fact that Zionist are against Muslims and they in pursuit of their nefarious designs and ulterior motives can go to any extent.
I can not overlook the mass agitation organized by westerns in many countries against Israel sponsored genocide in several countries including UK and USA. And many Jews were also involved vigorously in the said demonstrations. I have seen news articles wherein some Jews brunt their Israelis passport against Israel massacres policies.
As a human being and as a Muslim, I have all respect for these agitators for the cause. It is basically the governments who are responsible for the sate of affairs, not people.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Plato since your first post on this thread I am not taking you seriously.
Actually you think that you are doing favors to Islam….. As you are new to this universal religion, the only religion of Allah, the Only Almighty …….. You are welcome!
The fact is you have done favor on yourself by converting to Islam and not vice versa.
Read first about Islam before getting back to us with your absurd advises.
I think you are more bothered to care penny on this thread rather than to your religion. Sounds fishy???
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
what you dont realise advocate is that Europe and America are very different and the Danish would be grossly insulted by your inference that they are controlled or influenced by America. What they did was because of their very strong belief in free speech, and obviously christians aren't going to react in the same way.
If you actually do some reseacrh into Europe it can be pretty antisemitic on a level with the middle east. Remember Hitler!, the neo nazis are still going to this day. People in the west do openly say that isreal at times has been over the top with its retaliation.
I hate that some muslims believe what Bin Laden says that all of the west are completly pro isreal.
Palestine will only be solved around a table, the only other option is for middle east to close and kick out US troops etc and then blockade and seize isreal. But it wont becuase many of the royal families need the US to look after them. So they play one side against the other, drip feeding money to Hamas so it can keep kicking the bees nest and then cry to the rest of the muslim world when it gets stung.
"Hashin, give it up dear ...
You and Advocat have done no favors to Islam. In fact you are against the Muslim faith. IF YOU are for Islam, you would have been far more tolerant of other faiths and more tolerant of other people."
Peny: That's preciselly what i have been defending from the start of this thread.
==============
Being a tea boy isn't offensive, at least they earn their salary honestly, so you can't say it's racism.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
If I can't criticize any religion, then my world would become a boring "Borg" sanctuary of fanatics. Islam should be no exemption at all.
Westerners will do a mental count of Hadji's inside any aircraft, at any airport, before take off...
Peter Russel
Compmad….
I am not playing herein….. and I don’t need certificate for my patriotism and love to my nation.
Now…….see your friend “penny” is secreting venom against India……….
Come on hit back as I am doing………if, you are an Indian and love your action.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I know that Denmark in not America……. But godfather behind the scene is America……. Not as a nation but as nucleus of Zionist who notwithstanding of very minimal numbers control on USA government and policies.
Is this not a shame that 9bn tax dollars are being aided to Israel for killing children?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Fake degrees………………………..!
“You are a second rate nation with a third rate education with a fourth rate work ethic.”
Now you are hitting below the belt……. Actually you are STUPID & IDIOT who is racist by all means.
Lot of Indian is there in your country….. even richest man of UK is of Indian origin…… …. I can understand your frustration and agony…… you might have lost your job back in your country due to some professionally qualified Indian……. And this is reason beyond your racist statement.
You have shown actually what you are? I don’t think any sane entity would misunderstand you now.
GO AND SEEK MENTAL ASYLUM
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
advocatefk, you play the country game when it suits you. In fact religion comes first to you and you are ready to compromise the country's security for your narrow religious support.
Penny, don't play that game and don't brink India in to this picture. Your comment is offensive
Well there seems to be three trains of thought
1) - nobody can criticise religion at all or
2) - only religious people can criticise or
3) - any religion apart from islam can be criticised
I have been reading this for days now. Aren't you people tired of hurling obscenities and racial slurs at each other? I am truly surprised that the moderators have not locked this thread and deleted all of your accounts. Can't you people agree to disagree and go on with your lives? The point of this thread was lost a long time ago.
Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )
Hashin,
"blablabla your name suits you well..."
Yes hashin that is what I am doing.. blablabla.
take it if it makes sense, leave it otherwise. I am not serious to force anything...
Well, I have addressed defamation before and argued that it is wrong. Now somewhere I read ' a religion cannot stand for criticism being devine..' I just tried to add my two cents there and I maybe wrong. It all depends on how you see it. I don't think those who believe in the divinity of religion ever criticise it, only those who don't, do. It is opt for the believers to respect their point of view and respond with wisdom. That is what I read in Quran.
Advocate wrote
"After 9/11, the Western media started campaigning against Muslims and Islam to the extent that they targeted the Prophet by publishing caricatures ridiculing him and showing him as a prophet of terrorism."
Advocate you are soooo wrong, lets me explain this to many paranoid musims
DENMARK IS NOT IN AMERICA, DENMARK IS NOT IN AMERICA, DENMARK IS NOT IN AMERICA.
That really sickened me as America had nothing to do with the Danish cartoons and yet extremists jumped on it as an excuse for their violence against USA.
The western media was responding to videos continually being released by Bin laden telling all muslims to kill westerners and muslim traitors. The problem was that the muslim world was scared to denounce Bin laden as a muslim and polarised opinion.
PennPitStop said
"AND THEN we have Indians. Fake degrees, not fit FOR purpose etc. YOU ARE CHEAP LABOUR!
Are you so proud that you can't admit deep down that all Indians over here are treated like shit.
By the very locals you support.
Let's face it, how many Indians are in top jobs here???
Very few.
You do not cut the mustard.
You are a second rate nation with a third rate education with a fourth rate work ethic."
Wow Penny... you have outdone yourself with the profanities...
But you know what... I'd rather be all those things you mentioned... than a RACIST like you...
BOYCOTT FRAUDSTERS/RASCISTS AND THEIR ASSOCIATES
My own daughter could debate better than you two Moon Heads.
And she's 4.
Perhaps the world is better left to those without prejudices thrust upon them, eh?
"There's none so blind as those who will not see" - a quote there from my own father (god rest his soul)
______________________________________________
Love Chocolate..................Love Starfishes
Again Penny, you make one of those statements... Indians working as tea boys... I can only imagine that your resentment towards Indians should be because in real life, you or your better half must be getting a real run for your money professionally by some well qualified Indians, such insecurity... I've seen so many of your types... fly in one fine day, big salaries, zero knowledge, no relevant experience, big house, swanky car, even bigger loan, bluff gets caught and then wham!! Need to go home, Garage sale, personal emergency Bye Bye...
** AND THEN we have Indians. Fake degrees, not fit FOR purpose etc. YOU ARE CHEAP LABOUR!
Are you so proud that you can't admit deep down that all Indians over here are treated like shit.
By the very locals you support.
Let's face it, how many Indians are in top jobs here???
Very few.
You do not cut the mustard.
You are a second rate nation with a third rate education with a fourth rate work ethic.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
If you are a Muslim,you have put more people of Islam than anybody else I know.
You are a two penny Muslim. You are a convert. Your mind has been brainwashed. You are not a good Muslim.
You are a complete and utter retard. STOP LYING. Hasin and you need to go and read the Quran again.
You are the worse Muslims I have ever seen.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Is this "debate" still raging?
Why has this now turned into a personal attack on one poster?
How does that fit into the Qur'an?
For the record, I am an agnostic and am prepared to discuss the groundings of my religous beliefs with any who choose to engage me.
I have spent 34 years moving through a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religous United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland before coming to this conclusion.
I have met, engaged, become friends with, dated, debated and disagreed with sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds to come to MY OWN conclusions on this.
So please, humour me.
________________________________________
Love Chocolate..................Love Starfishes
Even more.....hashin......
To add....... in home country working as mechanic in garage...... and here in gulf working as mechanical engineers....... therein home country starving or feeding by half bread and here...........as you said!
And just quickly.....
Frauds are now teachers.....
I wonder what they are teaching to their students!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Even more.....hashin......
To add....... in home country working as mechanic in garage...... and here in gulf working as mechanical engineers....... therein home country starving or feeding by half bread and here...........as you said!
And just quickly.....
Frauds are now teachers.....
I wonder what they are teaching to their students!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Dont speak such high words...... better take some sleeping pills and go to bed..... otherwise you may get severe attacks...........out of your mental problems...
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Dont speak such high words...... better take some sleeping pills and go to bed..... otherwise you may get severe attacks...........out of your mental problems...
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
a real love affair.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Again Penny, you make one of those statements... Indians working as tea boys... I can only imagine that your resentment towards Indians should be because in real life, you or your better half must be getting a real run for your money professionally by some well qualified Indians, such insecurity... I've seen so many of your types... fly in one fine day, big salaries, zero knowledge, no relevant experience, big house, swanky car, even bigger loan, bluff gets caught and then wham!! Need to go home, Garage sale, personal emergency Bye Bye...
Oooooooooooops !!!now an atheist is giving us lesions on Islam!
Tolerant.......... well we are!!!! But not at all for an idiot like you
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Oooooooooooops !!!now an atheist is giving us lesions on Islam!
Tolerant.......... well we are!!!! But not at all for an idiot like you
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Hashin and Advocat are you going to actually answer the posts?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Defending Islam 'is chief objective of every Muslim'
By Abdunabi Shaheen, Correspondent
Published: December 28, 2006, 00:00
Makkah: While inaugurating the seventh conference organised by Muslim World League (MWL) on defending Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia said defending the Prophet against the slanderous attacks by enemies of Islam is the chief objective of every Muslim.
He said the belief in Islam rests on obeying the Prophet in his words and deeds and to love him more than one loves oneself, one's sons, parents and people.
Shaikh Al Shaikh said Muslims cannot prevent unbelievers from attacking Islam but they should keep defending it by peaceful means.
The conference aims to create awareness among Muslims about the importance of cooperating among themselves to face peacefully all the stereotyped campaigns directed against Islam to distort its image.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addressing the conference, Dr Abdullah Bin Abdul Mohsen Al Turki, MWL Secretary General, said: "Western media is distorting the image of Islam by depicting it as a religion of terrorism. But the world is fully aware of the fact that Islam always advocates tolerance, peace, moderation and coherence."
Meanwhile, Dr Jamal Badewi, chief of the Islamic Organisation in Canada, said: "Throughout human history, the Prophet was the very first to take out the humanity from the darkness of ignorance, anarchy, idolism and barbarism to the light of monotheism, peace and justice. Islam taught international brotherhood, but alas how abhorrent it is that the West is inculcating hatred against Muslims and Islam.
"It is instilling in the minds and masses that Muslims are the enemy and the Prophet of humanity is the Prophet of the enemy."
Dr Ahmad Nafea Al Muwarri, a professor at Um Al Qurra University in Makkah stated in a presentation: "Defending Islam is an obligation, thus all Muslims should defend the faith.
"After 9/11, the Western media started campaigning against Muslims and Islam to the extent that they targeted the Prophet by publishing caricatures ridiculing him and showing him as a prophet of terrorism."
He called upon all Muslims to face these attacks by unifying their ranks and collectively defend the faith, stressing that Islamic teachings never allow Muslims to attack others religions.
Source: http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/12/28/10092591.html
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
You and Advocat have done no favors to Islam. In fact you are against the Muslim faith. IF YOU are for Islam, you would have been far more tolerant of other faiths and more tolerant of other people.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
your name suits you well...
but your logic is so flawed, its a wonder that you are an IT Analyst
firstly, you assert that religion is a man made system... maybe for an atheist it might seem so, but not for others...
then you have completely lost the idea of defamation and AGAIN associated it with criticism... Hello? Anybody HOME?... www.m-w.com... type one word... enter... read... type other word... read... think... realize... blink... water... blink...
You say... "There are many reasons to look at Islam critically given the behavior of muslims"
You should really frame that sentence differently to hide your bias... I am sure you mean...
There are many reasons to look at Islam critically given the behavior of SOME Muslims...
there is a world of difference in those two sentences...
So only laterals who work for law firms to whom you referred are the lawyers????? Remaining chunk is working as tea boys!!!!
This shows your ideological and mental depravity.........
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
AGAIN your racism is evident. ................Indians as tea boys!!!! Well there is nothing wrong in being a tea boy...... at end of the day...... tea boys are also human being...........
Thanks God i am not a mentally hampered patient.
That’s why i insist leave these all and get properly cured...
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Advocat , carry on love lol. Who do you work for again?
Clyde & Co.
Patton Boggs?
Simmons & Simmons?
As far as I can see, they are the top law firms in Qatar and yet, the only Indians that work for them are tea boys etc.
Do you work for a local law firm as a clerk?
DvocatMy thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Again Mistaken and wrong perception Blabalala....
If the follower of any religion is going against his religion....... and committing the acts which are clearly prohibited under ambit of his religion..... it is not the religion which should come under attack rather follower himself.... because what he has done is out of purview of religion to which he belongs.
Keep you advises for yourself.............. I know for this you would be rewarded .
Regarding your belief you are solely responsible for those in front of God..... I have nothing to add herein after.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
too much ego to admit the fact that there is someone and something that's bigger than you...
It doesn't matter what YOU think or YOU believe or YOU feel...
there is only one truth... there is not a truth for each one of us...
But then there's the easy way out... do whatever you please and then try justifying it with your own version of the truth, the one that's most convenient for you at that point of time...
If that's the way you want to play it, then at least have the self consciousness to admit that your faith is too weak...
And given this situation....... wherein west in pressure of Zionist is hell bent on alienating muslims form main stream...... there are much due........
If you are killing parents in front of their children..... Prepare yourself for revenge...... which is hundred percent justified.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
And given this situation....... wherein west in pressure of Zionist is hell bent on alienating muslims form main stream...... there are much due........
If you are killing parents in front of their children..... Prepare yourself for revenge...... which is hundred percent justified.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Insult.......? You are an insult by default on Humanity!! It is an irony that people like you are also termed as human beings!!
Don’t bother about my advocacy skills! My employer is not giving me salaries for fun. Think of yourself first. You are basically a racist.......... and this is evident from your Indian tea boy remark! Actually this is not your fault...... you are victim of some deadly mental virus as i said before several times.
And i am fighting legal battles against many giants for my religion and my belief, and you are zilch if i compare you in front of them, I am party to many litigations in Indian courts for defamation of my religion....... i have personally sued Taslima Nasreen.......... and stupid like her and still i am in between war. So don’t worry at all! I am enough for you herein this thread or any where upon your invitation.
You are the one who diverted this thread several times.........
You are FRAUD..... And even this term is apparently less for defining your character.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
And Penny O yes
I Believe I can Fly
I beleive I can touch the Sky
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
pps the question is that does one have to be religious to believe in God.. I think No. As long as one beleives and feels that there is someone Almighty out there makes him a beleiver.. Now those follow any kind of religion and more complicated than just a beleiver..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
I respect your fact to follow, I have no ego. So therefore I see no need to boost it by boasting or the snobbery attached to religions.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
One cannot understand God until he looses himself..
Until he detaches himself from his ego..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
Good for you. I admire anybody that follows a religion. I don't chose to follow any but that does not make me as an Athiest not respect people that do.
This is what they don't get.
We may not follow a religion but we understand peoples desire to follow and conform.
I say good for you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
In Islam, bid‘ah (Arabic: بدعة) is any type of innovation in Islam. Though innovations in worldly matters, such as art and particularly, poetry, are acceptable, bid'a within the religion is seen as a sin or innuendo, the prophet of Islam Muhammad stated as such:
“Whosoever originates an innuendo in this matter of ours [i.e., Islam] that is not a part of it, will have it rejected.” [1] [2] In addition, the Qur'an (which Muslims believe is the word of God) states:
" ..This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."[3]
Similar statements are found in other verses of the Qur'an and other Hadith as well.
AND THEN CHECKED THIS:
The term innovation means a new way of doing something. It may refer to incremental, radical, and revolutionary changes in thinking, products, processes, or organizations. A distinction is typically made between invention, an idea made manifest, and innovation, ideas applied successfully. (Mckeown 2008) In many fields, something new must be substantially different to be innovative, not an insignificant change, e.g., in the arts, economics, business and government policy. In economics the change must increase value, customer value, or producer value. The goal of innovation is positive change, to make someone or something better. Innovation leading to increased productivity is the fundamental source of increasing wealth in an economy.
Innovation is an important topic in the study of economics, business, technology, sociology, and engineering. Colloquially, the word "innovation" is often synonymous with the output of the process. However, economists tend to focus on the process itself, from the origination of an idea to its transformation into something useful, to its implementation; and on the system within which the process of innovation unfolds. Since innovation is also considered a major driver of the economy, especially when it leads to increasing productivity, the factors that lead to innovation are also considered to be critical to policy makers.
Those who are directly responsible for application of the innovation are often called pioneers in their field, whether they are individuals or organisations
And yet you embrace innovations. Just a thought.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Can you prove that?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Obviously this person who posted this message is unaware of "being harsh with Kuffars and soft with the Muslims (Believers)" Not to say that we have o be harsh with all kuffar...just the ones who attack our honor and our religion. So to answer your question...no it's not a bidah.
Obviously you don't know Islamic history. The prophet (saw) was not always soft and polite towards his enemies when he was attacked whether it be verbally or physically.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
said sorry Mr knowledge ...
don,t you think you are bit harsh or aggressive?you comes with beautiful hadiths and quran sayings but you ruin it by your own comments.did you learn Dawah? they teach first thing is politeness which is one of characteristic of Prophet(pbuh).Don,t you think this is bidaht(doing some thing which is not part of hadith or quran)
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:
People were (sometimes) judged by the revealing of a Divine Inspiration during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle but now there is no longer any more (new revelation). NOW WE JUDGE YOU BY THE DEEDS YOU PRACTICE PUBLICLY, so we will trust and favor the one who does good deeds in front of us, and we will not call him to account about what he is really doing in secret, for Allah will judge him for that; but we will not trust or believe the one who presents to us with an evil deed even if he claims that his intentions were good.
In a nutshell "Revelation has stopped. Now we judge you by your actions!"
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Despite being an advocate you fail to realise that when followers come under attack for their practice, it is their religion that gets questioned because of the inspiration that these followers derive from the religion. There is no doubt that the religion has influence over the followers' behaviour. Hence, it is more appropriate for muslims to change their behavior to save their religion from being questioned. There is obviously a difference between the interpretations of devout muslims and the extremists but the thing interpreted is the same. So, how do you think the wrong interpretations get corrected and the bad followers brought on the right path if there is no criticism?
As for my belief, I don't need any certificate from any one very much like you do. I, however, like you don't believe for the fear that if there is a God then I will be the looser. But I am confident in what I believe that God has no reason to punish me for telling the truth for the benefit of humanity. I hope you would not question my belief again..
God bless.
but judge they do.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
and your point is?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Friday prayers and organize dhow trips. Soft spoken, hospitable who celebrate birthdays and share the food with drunkards.
Lovely/broad minded muslims capture images of QL ladies and then post it on facebook
Cadbury hearted muslims.....go to Orion and Garveys
http://www.unwatch.org/atf/cf/%7B6DEB65DA-BE5B-4CAE-8056-8BF0BEDF4D17%7D/DEFAMATION2008UNGA.PDF
Here is the resolution...
Read it...
The word criticism in any way, shape or form has not been mentioned on this resolution even once
there is nothing there that will not make for a better tomorrow...
If you don't think so... please feel free to point it out...
Advoacat
I have yet again read all of the postings from the very start. I wanted to be sure that I had not missed a pertinent point you may have made.
However, what became clear to me that every time you posted; if a person did not agree with you, they almost certainly became, (to quote you), bigots, racist, mentally ill, colonial or Zionists etc. In fact in the whole of this 10 page posting, I have counted 6 (at most) people who actually share your opinions.
This is how it has gone from page 2–
You post
Somebody replies (they don’t agree with you)
You get angry and start to insult.
You then google, copy and paste anything to try and prove your point. Do you HONESTLY think anybody really reads it all?
This whole thread is about ‘freedom of speech’ and people on this thread afforded you the right to YOUR freedom of speech. However, you obviously think, there is only ONE point of view and it is YOURS.
You state you are a Lawyer and yet looking through the thread, I hardly see a legal mind at work. Most Lawyers are logical, excellent debaters, have excellent oratory skills and can actually use the brain they were given without resorting to google based evidence or insults.
I would be interested to come and see how you perform at work. If you have to be brought to task by your betters /Judge; do you tell them, ‘you do not need a certificate and tell them to keep their advices (sic) in their shoes’? Or do you continue to ‘ejaculate’ your thoughts despite being told you are wrong?
I am sorry, if your work is so stressful that you feel the need to come on here and be a nasty person, I suggest you change your job. It is evident to me you cannot deal with debate or anybody else’s point of view or open your mind up to the fact people do have differing ideas of what is right or wrong.
You posted I think on page 7/8 statistics regarding crime in the West, as compared to here in the Gulf.
You said, **Re sexual abuses in this country please note that majority of population comprises of expatriates. You can’t blame local citizens for this prevailing quandary.
I agree we can’t. However, using your logic as a measure; there are over 5 million Indians in the Gulf, most of them men and 80’% of them Muslim. So, sticking with your logic most crime in the Gulf is therefore committed by Indian, Muslim males.
Getting back to if ‘criticism of religion’ is allowed or welcome. We know it is allowed, whether it is welcome is another matter.
Religious people live their life according to what they read, who they listen to and what they believe is the ‘word’. So they are in some ways a reflection of that said religion.
I have always been outspoken about the Catholic faith. I think it morally corrupt and it has allowed, sat back and endorsed some unbelievable acts of terror and horror. However, I do not blame their God or the Bible. I blame first of all the perpetrators of these said acts and the Pope, who is Gods Ambassador on Earth, who has allowed them to get away with it and also in some ways helped them. I am of course talking about the IRA, and sick, sick, priests etc.
The Pope as the LEADER of that faith should have and could have stepped in. Why would I or anybody else then want to endorse any religion where they allow their followers to murder and rape? I know most Catholics are nice religious people and I accept they are somewhat embarrassed by what has happened in the past.
Is this criticizing religion or the people who interpret it? You have to remember for some people if the Pope says ‘jump’ they ask, ‘how high?’
So forgive us in the West if all we see is the negative side of Islam. You must accept, that on one hand you say you are peaceful loving tolerant people and then we see as was evident from the post by a QL member showing a Muslim Cleric, talking about Anthrax and how the result, i.e. the number of people dead ( including women and children) would make 9/11 look like a party.
The 9/11 bombings another example of how SOME see Islam/Muslims. Images of people in Palestine and Jordan dancing in the street and cheering as if an innocent person dying is a laughing matter.
Can you imagine if people in London or anywhere else for that matter danced, laughed and cheered EVERY time a Muslim was killed? There would be outrage and quite rightly so.
Is that criticizing religion or the religious clerics that spout hatred openly? People will always follow, that is what is expected of them. So, if we see this and perhaps we don’t know any different, people will be wary of Islam.
Like most people, I abhor what is happening in Palestine. I have said this MANY times in this thread. You chose to ignore that. I am neither a Zionist nor a bigot.
I think if you took the time and trouble to read the whole posting again you will clearly see that you are on the one that is breaking laws. By having your boycott Israel stance, you are in fact insulting a race of people who live their life by their religion (rather like you) and yet you have condemned them, so therefore in my eyes insulted their religion.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Only the ones that doubt from their faith may feal hurt by criticism.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Hello…….. Geoffrey I Boycott..
Since your profile states that you are member for only 18 hours 48 min ( at given time) I wonder whether this is a real or fake !!!! No offence please!
So you are accusing me and Hashin for cultivating anger in this thread and not keeping our mouth shut on ongoing assault of our religion. The “Muslims” friends you are referring to sound a mysterious fiasco.
Actually you and like minded are obsessed with an imperial mind………… so you always wish to see the things in your own predefined way! Those days are gone……..when her majesty was ruling over half of the globe……
Insecurity in our faith……! I am sorry rather you seems to be insecure and biased too! If you are so rational, do you have guts to oppose venom spread by your “lovely” friends herein this thread! No you don’t have!
Basically the problem rests with your prejudiced mind! You want to see our religion in your own way…… and catastrophe is that you also dream that we as Muslims should follow your course of action and must second your point of views…
This being the case, no more addition is required to prove your case!
Bye bye
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
At the outset, you MUST know that religion is not man made phenomenon. If you an atheist and/or agnostic, this may be your perception. Barring atheists/agnostics worldwide population consider religion as “divine” since inception of civilization. Get back to your school!!!
Followers as I said hundred times earlier are subject to criticism and condemnation because of their acts and deeds……. Religion doers not stand for criticism.
Re your reasons for criticizing Muslims….. you are free…….. and Muslims too stand for criticism because of their acts……… not because of the religion they follow! ... religion cant be open for criticism….
Freedom of speech & expression has negative aspects also, and is always limited when it contradict with culture / traditions etc.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Allah says in Quran: YoU are the best of People ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al Maruf(islamic monothesim) and forbid al Munkar (polythesim)and you believe in Allah. AND had the people of the scripture believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most them are al Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah nad rebellious against Allah's command)
Chapter 3 verse 110
This is all a little tedious now.
The fact remains, although not an expert, I am certain that all religions pronounce love of the fellow person, understanding, forgiveness and respect, in the face of non believers.
Consequently, if you are a true follower of a faith, does it matter what anybody else thinks, or says, about your beliefs? Indeed, if the lessons preached were actually learnt and followed by all faiths, this whole question would be mute.
Advocatefk and Hashin, the whole of this thread, particularly the vitriol and poison has been generated by your insecurity in your own faith. If you were true Muslims, like the many I have known, befriended, worked alongside, loved and respected, it would not have a mattered a jot.
Makes me glad I believe only in myself and those close to me.
Good Luck with the rest of your sorry, bitter, poison filled lives.
_______________________________________________________
"I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say"
hashin said,
"If defamation against an individual or an organization is against the law... why can't defamation of religion be against the law as well?.."
No, it cann't be because a religion is a man made system and hence prone to errors. People should have the right to criticise religion if they find something outdated and hinders the progress and development of human beings and above all becomes a threat to the society itself due to its ability to misguide the ignorant followers. There are many reasons to look at Islam critically given the behavior of muslims. There will always be those who defend religion blindly and those who fight this absurdity with wisdom. So, the bottom line is who you want to be?
No probs! I thought that you are a Christian! This was in “good faith”!
“Your” should be now read as their”
As I said contradiction can not prevail in Islam since Quran is final source and authority and it is AS it was!
Criticism in my opinion should be limited to humans!
Even for freedom of speech and expression there are certain predefined limitations. This right should be not interpreted as an absolute right. Every jurisdiction recognize limits on the freedom of speech, particularly when freedom of speech conflicts with other values or rights
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Where did I say it was my religion ;)
Because there are contradictions surely there must be a need for discussion? Which this thread has proved will be seen by some as criticism.
I am not sure for others but let me tall you one thing perfectly straight……. The QURAN remains as it was reveled to prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and it SHALL remain the same till final judgment day.
There are some contradictions in Sunnah and hadeeth but those are merely based on authenticity. Here principle of “colorable legislation” prevails. If something which goes in contradiction of Quran, in no ways it can be considered as sunna or hadeeth.
for Muslims, the center of Islam is based on Quran and it is the Words of God and is the complete book beyond any doubts
Re Bible, there is also relevancy of bible in Islam but we believe that it has been changed. Anyways, I am not here to comment whether it has been changed or not since it is your religion and I have my all respect for all religions.
If I have to criticize someone I would prefer criticizing him/her based on his/her deeds and acts, not on based on religion he/she follows…
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
The problem is advocate is that it has been shown many times, that the religions texts have been miswritten, misquoted, mistranscribed etc. The bible is full of contradicitons as are the sunnah and hadith.
Yes problem rests with all countries based on their history/culture/ traditions etc.
You are wrong here roadtester….. I am open to any criticism whatever you want……
I am just saying that no religion should be criticized…… it is the followers who are open for criticism be it Christian, Jews, Muslims Hindu…… because of their acts and deeds.
Yes no country is perfect……. Be it my or yours’….
Yes you are right….. we as the Muslims are vulnerable for criticism because we deserve so by our acts and deeds……which is against Islam and its principles.
Re divorce please note that Marriage as prescribed by God, is the lawful union of a man and women based on mutual consent. Ideally, the purpose of marriage is to foster a state of tranquillity, love and compassion in Islam, but this is not always the case. Islam discourages divorce but, unlike some religions, does make provisions for divorce by either party.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Religion criticism comes by when you have the mentality as such .. "Mine is greater than yours". Difficult to prove right? Unless you die first, go to heaven, and come back with a story to tell, and with a video clip yes my friend
Eco……
She is a racist and blinkered …………….together with being MAD.
She should seek mental asylum ASAP. Otherwise her family (if any) would be first to be adversely affected. I can read her face now and let me assure you that she is on verge of breakdown due to pain, agony and frustration.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
btw I took lessons in tea ceremony (in Kyoto 1992) and that has helped me in my current Job as maid.
See a prevailing trend and draw your own conclusions:
Whenever this thread was directed towards reasonable discussion…. This mental hampered Denny who should be in mental hospital for treatment jumped in with her unworthy remarks and taunting comments.
As it is evident now that she is not capable of answering to the questions posted herein so she is just trying to have fun here.
A cheater …….. Fraud that in disguise of fake user names indulge in discussions and then get banned…. What we can say for such person?
She claims that she was a teacher……. Now I am sure that why she “WAS”………
Penny or Denny…… go have treatment first……
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Advocate seriously - basic statistics you have to divide cases by population or the data is skewed from the begining due to the large numbers of people in USA. I would have tipped my hat to you if you'd wanted to further adjust the data by gender but guess statistics not your thing.
Every country has its problems which can be related to culture/religion/history, we should be able to freely discuss these for our countries to progress. At the moment the only impression im getting is that people wont take criticism from other races no matter what. Much like if anyone criticises isreal they are called Nazis etc, if anyone criticises islam they are islamophobes.
India isn't perfect either! Every country has its probelms! H
Heard a programme on world service about Indian male msulims who were divorcing their wives by saying 'talaq' through SMS or email" by SMS!!!
This is again misusing islam is it not ?
STOP fighting like kids here and make some meaningful discussion....!!!
Now you have shown what ultimately you are????????
And from which background and family you are? Never mind my be illegitimate or being cursed to fed yourself in early life.
Me a tea boy………… it’s ok…… tea boys are also human beings……
What about your self….. FRAUD…..CHEATER……..TROLL……..
Being a tea boy is far better than aforementioned.
Your acts and deeds are now more than enough for me to visualize your broken personality.
Get admitted to MENTAL HOSPITAL ASAP.
Some new entries to this thread is really suspicious….. I bet those are fake………. I warned before than Penny would go to any extent…… and this is the outcome…
You know penny you are basically a “ “! Understand
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
"Hashin, is probably a low paid 'Engineer' or perhaps into 'business'/ read that as Indian PA, AKA 'tea boy'."
that is appalling... you've set new standards for low...
Your comment earlier about Indian slums was toeing the line
your latest attack on me is personal and clearly racist...
I really don't care what you think about me personally, but by bringing nationality in to that... you have showed your bias and true colours...
Okay there are Indians who work as PAs and tea boys... but if it weren't for the lowly paid Indians, Nepalese and Sri Lankans whom you scoff... NO ONE including the Qataris could live the life they live today...
You say you've read the thread and yet you say that you are not familiar with the resolution... I've put the resolution on the thread so I guess you haven't really read the thread
As for your question...
Could you explain to me how it is possible that "critism of religion can be a violation of freedom of expression"
I am not still sure exactly what you meant
but I've pointed out earlier on the same thread that freedom of expression does not include the right to say just anything... sometimes what you say can be viewed as slander or libel and you can be sued if what you said is not based on substance... in which case it is against the law...
The essence of the resolution is the same... if a person or an organization is protected against defamation... why not a religion?
If you still don't get... get someone older to read the thread and explain it to you...
I would love to tell you. Take one hour out tomorrow and read all threads.
I will accept if I am wrong.
However, I hazard a guess, you will dislike Advocat as much as 3/4 of QL did, including his fellow Muslims.
My darling, precious children who I work with, who are classed as disabled are better at debate then him.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
penny check with moderator who I am ...
send quick pm now
Wed, 25/03/2009 - 12
I HAVE ASKED YOU ON MANY OCCASIONS TO BACK UP YOUR ACCUSATIONS. I HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE, YOU HAVE.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Don't worry, we have an Indian (Lawyer) read that as Legal Clerk/tea boy. At best.
Hashin, is probably a low paid 'Engineer' or perhaps into 'business'/ read that as Indian PA, AKA 'tea boy'.
Both are remedial.
Both have nothing to add to the debate.
Both have made fools of themselves.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
send quick pm now
Tumbleweed anyone?
I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
The above comment was so good, I posted it twice ;)
________________________________________
Love Chocolate...........Love Starfishes
Where'd everyone go?
Was it something I said?
Or perhaps a question I asked that you can not answer?
Please come back.............pretty please..............with a choclate starfish on top?
________________________________________
Love Chocolate...........Love Starfishes
Where'd everyone go?
Was it something I said?
Or perhaps a question I asked that you can not answer?
Please come back.............pretty please..............with a choclate starfish on top?
________________________________________
Love Chocolate...........Love Starfishes
I am loving this. rofl here about it all.
I don't have a sodding clue who Starfish is but god she is funny.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
"Hashin, I've read the thread in more detail now (apologies for not doing this sooner).
However, I am not familiar with the resolution that is being strenuously backed by yourself and advokatfk.
Could you explain to me how it is possible that "critism of religion can be a violation of freedom of expression" - surely the very essence of freedom of expression is that it permits the very same critism that is being attacked?
As for it being an "unacceptable" violation, who exactly decides the acceptibility of these matters?
Presumably if there is one party who decides this, by your pock market logic, this is again in breach of my own freedom of expresion.
I await your hate filled, non-sensicle, "troll" orientated response"
---------------------------------------------
Please can someone answer my question (re-posted) for you above.
Dora & eco, perhaps you could try to - unless you agree with my point?
And about those tissues eco, I've got plenty if you need them,.
Are you PM? If so, at least be original.
QL has been tolerant of you for quite a while.
They have tolerated your abuse and semi-pseudo intellectual ways etc.
Eco if you are not PM, please be a man/or a person that does not hide.
Please, feel free to post here why I am all these people you say I am.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Still waiting...............
PMPL........Love it.......Chocolate Starfish couldn't you find a more descriptive avatar?lol.....sorry, hijack over......
Eco-savvy, I doubt it very much as I'm new to the site, and relatively new to Qatar.
I did post on here some months back before moving out to Qatar, "parkers" was my previous user ID.
Anyway, about those tissues?
cause you got humiliated. I advised advocatefk stop making pulp
By the way Advocatefk a lawyer - You are in contempt of a thread, never mind a court room. Can imagine your clients when you walk in as the appointed lawyer:
Judge: "Do you have a lawyer"
Defendant: "No"
Judge: "We will appoint one for you" , "Get that halfwit Advocate, the one who uses words that don't exist"
Advocate: "I am here to defenderise you, you will evaderate punishment"
Defendant: "Seriously, save everyone some time, take me away"
Where did you get your license - Toys R Us, with your sherrifs badge?
I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
id, havent we met before choco?
That is my point. They insult others but theirs is exempt? lol and the whole of this thread has been about Advocat.
Advocat, perhaps Islam is the wrong religion for you.
Most Muslims I have met are clever, tolerant people.
You are an angry, bigoted, and racist.
Not quite the person who should be a Lawyer or preach under the name of Islam, when even (better Muslims than you) have told you to shut up.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Eco-savvy, apologies if we barged in on your "Hashin-adulation"
Please, you two go ahead.
Want me to pass you the tissues?
Hashin, I've read the thread in more detail now (apologies for not doing this sooner).
However, I am not familiar with the resolution that is being strenuously backed by yourself and advokatfk.
Could you explain to me how it is possible that "critism of religion can be a violation of freedom of expression" - surely the very essence of freedom of expression is that it permits the very same critism that is being attacked?
As for it being an "unacceptable" violation, who exactly decides the acceptibility of these matters?
Presumably if there is one party who decides this, by your pock market logic, this is again in breach of my own freedom of expresion.
I await your hate filled, non-sensicle, "troll" orientated response.
No one can beat Hashin- to know him better go back to Old threads
That is Freedom Of Speech!
Listen if you are so fragile in your faith, that you care what somebody from another race, religion, colour or creed, says about yours, then I am sorry for you.
I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
**This thread is not about the freedom of speech to include religion...
It’s about a resolution against the defamation of religion...**
rofl, go away you remedial wuk fit. It declares that all religions are included.
Hashin/Advocat, you could not get it right it you tried.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
you rate his IQ as 12. Do not flatter him.
12???
An IQ of 12 means they can speak!
This person, who claims to be a Lawyer (albeit in India ,lol) says he has a MA from England.
How amusing is that?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
This thread is not about the freedom of speech to include religion...
its about a resolution against the defamation of religion...
Hashin, seriously, what is your point?
This is a thread about freedom of speech to include religion. As I read the thread, it appears yourself and avdocatefk have a problem in accepting that if you wish to criticise others, then expect to allow them the liberty to respond.
The sad fact is most conflicts have been waged in the name of religion. As far as I know most religions advocate understanding, peace and respect.
Regrettably, it is fundamentalist halfwits like you that are at the forefront of these conflicts.
Troll! By the way - Go to bed, you have school tomorrow, little boy. Work on that 12 score IQ
I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
lol ok let's go back to the start.
Why is Islam, therefore Muslims exempt from criticism?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
What the hell are you trying to say?
Your English is crap!
How can you possibly engage in a topic as serious as this and yet never make sense?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
stop trolling... read the thread and comment on the topic...
"Chocolate Starfish... Another one of those twisted names... so typical"
btw what is so twisted about "Chocolate Starfish" hashin?
It was the favourite confectionary treat of my Grandmother (God rest her soul), and her afectionate pet name for me as a child.
And what of the fact I have only recently joined this site - perhaps you could recommend a less anti-Westerner one for me please?
stick to the topic...
Answer me...
If defamation against an individual or an organization is against the law... why can't defamation of religion be against the law as well?
**My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with SOME of them.
So quick are you to insult, you don't even read the signature correctly. I said, SOME.
**you've gone on and on and you can't even get your mum to agree with you... let alone other people on the thread..
MORE people have agreed with me then you.
*And BTW... easy with your reference to the slums of India... they are humans too... nothing to be looked down upon**
Have I said anything bad about slums in India?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
take your alto egos with you, as in, your other screen names.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
you've gone on and on and you can't even get your mum to agree with you... let alone other people on the thread...
And BTW... easy with your reference to the slums of India... they are humans too... nothing to be looked down upon...
Advocat has made a fool of Indians, Muslims and Lawyers.
He is actually an uneducated, racist, bigot who cannot even debate. He is NOT a Lawyer at all. He lies.
He uses words he does not understand.
He cannot debate.
He insults.
He is a thick, stupid, racist idiot from the slums of India who decided to sound clever.
Good night Advocat. Take your lies, racism, bigotry, prejudice and retardation to the Telletubbie forum, you complete and utter wuck fit.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
since you've been here 3 hours and have not said anything of substance... that makes you a troll... good night...
Hashin, is an idiot. So is Advocat. They make no sense at all.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
that's not to whom I am refering, as well you know hashin.
Or are you a soup spoon short of a cutlery set?
Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind). Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.
Oh by the way, checked with Wick and that reason was so insulting.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
You are right... Penny has posted some absolutely disgraceful drivel...
Chocolate Starfish.... you prefer your company to be slightly less offensive 'to be honest'...
I expect far less...
I just expect them 'to be honest'... and even that they (read penny) cannot do... :-)) ROFL
Apologies hashin.
I find some of the drivel posted here absolutely disgraceful.
But you just ROFL.
When you get up, re-read the thread and let me know if you consider it all to be "honest"
Chocolate Starfish... Another one of those twisted names... so typical... And just 2 hours and 24 minutes old profile... and the only two comments are on this thread... and he starts off asking for a synopsis...!!
Penny... quickly... take your meds... the schizophrenia is flaring up...
We all do.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
He's certainly not an associate of mine penny.
Having read the posters voracious anti-West drivel, I prefer my company slightly less offensive tbh.
I don't know if you are a friend of advocats.
However, as you have asked I will give a synopsis of this thread.
Advocat and his mates talk a load of rubbish and claim to be people they are not.
They claim to be good Muslims and yet fellow Muslims, have told them they are wrong. Advocat claims to be a Lawyer rofl, look over the posts and you will see clearly he is not.
This thread was 'taken over' by Advocat.
He took it over for his own personal agenda, to gain sympathy for the Israeli/Gaza conflict.
What he did not get was, we all at one point agreed with him.
We made that quite clear and yet he still decided to insult and argue over nothing. (I think, as many others do, he was TRYING to sound clever.) Love him.
He claims to be such a good Muslim and yet condones suicide bombings etc.
He says that the only religion is Islam, and yet we know that most Muslims are tolerant of other religions.
I suggest you read the threads to see what an idiot this man and his two friends have made of themselves.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
advocatefk, what have I missed.
Any chance of a quick synopsis of the 9 pages please?
Ay' up everyone, please leave me out of this, I have never been to Isreal.
I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
How old were you when you mastered the art of sitting on it and talking through it at the same time?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
You know Penny..... there is nothing new in this comment. A Mad never accepts that he/she is a mad!
Come on........... Visit some good doctor....... get your “virus” diagnosed and properly cured....
I know you are in trauma these days
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Where did you go for yours?
Mind you they did not do a very good job.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
It/ they.... was/ were posted twice due to technical snags!!!!!! I never get annoyed by mentally sick people...
Penny........ Seriously think about my advice...... what is wrong in taking treatment?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
It/ they.... was/ were posted twice due to technical snags!!!!!! I never get annoyed by mentally sick people...
Penny........ Seriously think about my advice...... what is wrong in taking treatment?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Yeshmash, is nice!!!!
Come on, "We are the world, we are the children, we are the one's who make a brighter day so lets not give in." Listen to our Kazakhstan God - Michael Jackson
rofl see you were there to 'dear' lol
By the way Advocat, I know you are a little angry now, but calm down 'dear'. You only need to press the submit comment once. Lots of double posts from you lately.
Tsk Tsk, losing your cool?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Now you are copying and pasting and even without giving references.............................
your post is copied from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial evidence.
Be fair at least to give references................
By the way you are back again...... i was wondering whether you have been admitted!!!
FYI, Circumstantial evidence is also known as indirect evidence. Circumstantial evidence is usually a theory, supported by a significant quantity of corroborating evidence and in given situation witness of other members fall in this category.
The distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence is important because, with the obvious exceptions (the immature, incompetent, or ), nearly all criminals are careful to not generate direct evidence, and try to avoid demonstrating criminal intent. Therefore, to prove the mens rea levels of "purposely" or "knowingly," the prosecution must usually resort to circumstantial evidence. The same goes for tortfeasors in tort law, if one needs to prove a high level of mens rea to obtain punitive damages.
Penny........grow up! Admit your nonsense and plead guilty herein....... don’t worry you are not going to be hanged........
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Now you are copying and pasting and even without giving references.............................
your post is copied from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial evidence.
Be fair at least to give references................
By the way you are back again...... i was wondering whether you have been admitted!!!
FYI, Circumstantial evidence is also known as indirect evidence. Circumstantial evidence is usually a theory, supported by a significant quantity of corroborating evidence and in given situation witness of other members fall in this category.
The distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence is important because, with the obvious exceptions (the immature, incompetent, or ), nearly all criminals are careful to not generate direct evidence, and try to avoid demonstrating criminal intent. Therefore, to prove the mens rea levels of "purposely" or "knowingly," the prosecution must usually resort to circumstantial evidence. The same goes for tortfeasors in tort law, if one needs to prove a high level of mens rea to obtain punitive damages.
Penny........grow up! Admit your nonsense and plead guilty herein....... don’t worry you are not going to be hanged........
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Circumstantial evidence is not considered to be proof that something happened but it is often useful as a guide for further investigation. I will ask you and Eco, again to prove your claims, here and now.
Circumstantial evidence is normally used in science only to support other forms of evidence, so that you can figure out what happened.
Circumstantial evidence is used in social studies to reach logical conclusions where other forms of evidence do not exist.
As for 'indirect', I think you meant 'direct' circumstantial evidence.
Over to you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
At the outset, let me tell you that i am an Indian and not from ME. Re data availability of ME you cannot go in the way as you mentioned. Why not, CIA fact book is there and lot of reports which are against ME governments are posted therein. No country is free from crime........ the comparison of records is not an issue here as it is evident and clear enough that crimes are very less in comparison to the west or even my country India.
We Indian are second most populous country of the world but we are even better than you! Ratio if calculated on basis of per capita clearly show that SA is leads the numbers in rape cases but you have to admit that USA leads the total numbers in the said crime. This ratio, calculative methods, etc. cannot be held as a defence to the fact. These all are prevailing because moral values are degrading day by day and these changes are worldwide though west is more vulnerable to this effect.
Re sexual abuses in this country please note that majority of population comprises of expats. You cant blame local citizens for this prevailing quandary. And if there are any such cases, victim should come out with their own narrations. Often while going through gulf times i notice such cases are also reported here. This is a different tendency and it should not be generalised as well as serialized.
The approach that “ i know one” is very dangerous and is inadmissible as matter of fact.
Teenage pregnancies to which i was referring to was basically pregnancies without wedlock. If i am not mistaken here i was reading a news wherein it was reported that 11 or 14 years boy became a father..... What is this? How can you justify this? No way,
Pregnancies in Muslim families’ are generally in wedlock barring certain exceptions.
I am not at all blaming that west is uncivilized rather just pointing out that what are by-products’ of such civilized culture. As an entity certainly we have improved but as a human we degraded.
At end of day fact remains a fact. This sounds harsh but it is a truth that you can’t escape. Yeap, you have different options to defend yourself but your heart as well as mind knows the fact very well.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
that there is not even a modicum amount of hard data on any of this stuff from the Middle East? So how can you compare?
The data SHOULD be ratio based since the populations of various countries is vastly different. The US is a country of over 300 million...I wouldn't be surprised if we had more rapes than, say, Saudi Arabia. But proportionally to the size of the population? That would be interesting to know...
Even if you WERE able to survey women here, I doubt you would get accurate info because women here probably think it's impossible to be raped by your husband, that sex with his wife is his RIGHT...so even if their husband forced them, they would never describe it as such.
And c'mon, advocatefk....are you seriously trying to pretend that the female domestic workers here don't get men pawing at them and taking advantage of them sexually? I personally know of this happening several times here in Qatar, one of those time even with a MALE worker and a male sponsor...so don't get me started on the messed up situation here regarding sexuality and power/control in the sponsorship system here.
Puleeez!!
AND if we're going to talk about teenage pregnancies, I would definitely think the Middle East is heads and shoulders above most western nations, seeing as they marry at such a young age here.
My point is, as others have said, the US and Europe and the entirety of the western world is NOT less civilized, less moral than the Middle East. We talk more openly about our problems, and you're taking pot shots at us because of that fact.
Play fair.
"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."
-- Maya Angelou
Lead by total:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
Lead by per capita (which is of course SA):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
STOP LYING! Recodes would not come under your force .
Don’t play with records. S.A is on lead when calculated on PER CAPITA basis.
USA leads the way in TOTAL number of cases.
See the reference below:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
No mania with America…. Since there was someone else who initiated this discussion so just informing him to have glance at re4cords available.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
No way ........... the data you provided is ratio based data which is calculated on basis of total population or inhabitants therein. If you figure out the numbers USA leads the way!!!!!!! Though it is imperative to note that at last you admitted that there IS…………
Here is an important figure for your perusal and records:
• In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year.
• 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime.
• The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It's 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
• 1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.
• 83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under.
• 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
• 1 in 12 males students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had committed such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
• 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquaintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.
Source:
• http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
If only the middle east would publish its data ;) America is not top tho South Africa is miles ahead. why are you so obsessed about America??
america is not the top, when looking at UN data :
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
South africa is miles ahead of everyone else followed by canada then USA.
Stop the lies
Insulting the principles of life, the moral base and values is considered as violation of 'freedom of expression' and NOT freedom of expression. As far as terrorism goes, criminal minds have all sorts of excuses, why would you believe them ?
Why to publish report when there is no such activity
And over and above….. USA controlled CIA World Fact Book covers all data available wither from inside country or from out side.
So don’t be panic Jack……….. this is the truth that you are out of values now……..
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Here is the link:
http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html
And this is from USA only.
Please feel free to verify details from:
Address:
National Organization for Women
1100 H Street NW, 3rd floor
Washington, D.C. 20005
Phone: (202) 628-8669 (628-8NOW)
Fax: (202) 785-8576
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
The middle east doesn't publish figures so you cant fairly compare them.
This is what I am trying to say Jack…
Imagine the situation in 1992………. So after almost around 18 years this would have reached to catastrophic situation.
I am not denying of rape cases in ME or anywhere in the world…. Just putting forward data which says that USA is top in this list.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
By default MUNNA in Hindi/Urdu is the term used for kids…………………………………………………
Am I wrong? So decide, who has to grow? Me or………..
Re copy paste……. Give proofs…… whatever I have copy & pasted here related links are also attached therewith. Wash your eyes and read it again dear “MUNNA”!
Don’t join lobby of hypocrites !!!! Sometime it is good to think as MAN…… rather than depending of “Munnaism”
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Advoctae for a lawyer your seem to be pretty loose with your facts -
of the countries that publish such statistics
• Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992)
1992 thats 17 yrs ago!!!! Id say reporting of rape in middle east is even less.
Culturally rape is kept quiet in middle east, i ahve alreaqdy shown you data showing that middle east counrtries reporting of rape is bad, and example in egypt where the rape level is double UK so please stop these lies.
Take saudi where you got that married girl and man that got gang raped, both the man and woman were raped by men (this does not happen in uk) the woman got lashes for reporting the crime. Women are not going to come forward to complain to police if they will get lashes.
Now Jack…….. read more on birth of children without wedlock ( illegitimate Childs)……. See morality and values of west:
US births break record; 40% out-of-wedlock
Source: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/lifestyle/112374.php
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Below are links ( proofs) which are self explanatory:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
• The United States has the world\'s highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It\'s 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
• Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992)
• The rate of false reports of rape is approximately 2 - 3% which is no different than that for other crimes.
• One of every four rapes take place in a public area or in a parking garage.
Source: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_afrikaans/history/644456-%B7_the_united_states_has_the_world%5Cs_highest_rape_rate_of_the_countries_that_pub.html
I am saying that west is corrupt rather I must say that west have finished with mortality and culture.
Now see the data of TEENAGE PREGNANCY in USA alone:
The United States has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the industrialized world. The Center for Disease control says that one-third of girls get pregnant before the age of 20. Teenpregnancy.org, a site managed by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, states that there are "750,000 teen pregnancies annually. Eight in ten of these pregnancies are unintended and 81 percent are to unmarried teens."
Source: http://www.livestrong.com/article/12504-teen-pregnancy-rates-usa/
If you want more details follow the link :
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf
`Britain... has a sky-high level of teenage pregnancies.' [Daily Mail, 8 March 2001]
Data and facts speak of themselves.
Your rhetoric smuggling of ideas would not let down the facts.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
By default MUNNA in Hindi/Urdu is the term used for kids…………………………………………………
Am I wrong? So decide, who has to grow? Me or………..
Re copy paste……. Give proofs…… whatever I have copy & pasted here related links are also attached therewith. Wash your eyes and read it again dear “MUNNA”!
Don’t join lobby of hypocrites !!!! Sometime it is good to think as MAN…… rather than depending of “Munnaism”
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
"I can see you are a good person, these three are just thick. Sorry, but they are."
Better to have thick skin than an empty thick skull.
"They do not represent the Islam I know of, or certainly my Muslim friends."
Don't flatter yourself. No true Muslim could ever be your friend.
"They have lied, insulted, copied and pasted things they don't understand."
You and your friends didn't? At your speed, you'd better not stop your mouth too fast or your teeth will fly through your cranium.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Im not prejudiced advocate - your comparing apples to oranges.
In the west rape data is pretty well understood, in the middle east it isn't. When I was in bahrain i only read about one case and that was beacuse an indian worker was specifically raping bahrainis. Just about every phhillipino lady out here will tell you someone has tried to kidnap/co erce them.
You find me some proper data carried out by a reputable university and i'll believe you. At the moment it is swept under the carpet. Go to any womens rights website and they will say the same.
Apples and oranges - rape data for ME -
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ef2YyMNEG3AC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=rape+data+middle+east&source=bl&ots=lL3Z2Br4jy&sig=qPmXvjuWNQhEAYc3hrE0CK8hRfw&hl=en&ei=BKTISZ37EZDDjAe97f3FAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA26,M1
In uk 11,000 rapes in Egypt 20,000 rapes egypt has 74 million people and UK has 60 million people. Back to school advocate.
http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?ReportId=76827
Please stop with the lie that west is so much more corrupt than the middle east when obviously it isn't. Both have their problems.
You said:
"Your kind i would love to see in the open, what kind of a person would you be. A little 3ft troll. I bet you drive a white Toyota and brake in front of unsuspected people who piss you off for sticking to the road rules. But here again you hide behind your screen attacking people. It just goes to show your mentality is still smaller then your penis…same as all Toyota drivers, small penis and big egos."
Shock me, say something intelligent. We all were engaged in good, clean insult. You must be one of those fat, unattractive, bald headed rejects, who sit behind computer screens with your bra, panty, and stillettos on looking at some "girly-boys." Do yourself a favor and go back to your humble hobby of jumping over candlesticks.
Jack be nimble,
Jack be quick,
Jack jump over the candlestick.
Jack jumped high,
Jack jumped low,
Jack jumped over and burned his toe.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
advocatefk u really muslim ? or just copy paste ? grow up man
Unjustified rape comparisons……..
Now again it is your prejudiced mind that there are no decent data available and women do not enjoy rights and so on…..
Now when you don’t have something substantial to defend yourself you are insisting on astronomical figures…
Raping wife……. If I am not mistaken it should be termed as “forced sex” rather than Rape….. and even if I consider your definition……… are their any proofs evidencing the same or just a byproduct of your prejudiced mind.
Rape is crime in your country…….. but see the data which speaks of themselves.
Read Islamic laws and see the nature and quantum of punishment for this heinous crime…..
Upgrade your mind first….. be out of biasness and prejudice ….. equip yourself with some data and then come back…
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
jack……….
World is unsafe because people like me……… “joke of the day”
Please initiate proceedings and campaign to get yourself nominated for “noble peace prize” since you are one and only to promote peace in world in camouflage of hate.
Great!!!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I am still awauting answer to my question posted above in this thread!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Knowledge…… don’t slander DOG please…….!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Penny or Denny whatever you are…… just note one thing, your identity of being FRAUD is open.
You are asking of evidences….. let me inform you basics of law of evidence…… you are convicted under indirect and circumstantial evidences. Your act and behaviors together with other collaborate evidences (witnesses) are sufficient to prove that you are basically a troll!
Now I am of the opinion that I should write to the universities /colleges of which you claimed to be an examiner to revaluate the papers which were marked/examined by you since you have two fold problem. One is with your mind which is hampered and other is that you are a FRAUD.
Just give me details so I should start writing to the concerned aithroties if your claims are really true and substantial to which now I have serious doubts.
Copy….paste…… etc….. Penny do a favor provide me any material which was posted here by using copy paste tool without providing link of website thereof. You know you are a SICK minded entity and really you in dire need of proper medical treatment.
Now don’t use any fake id to support yourself herein this thread….
Get well soon
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
guys ,wow, didn't know you would resort to childish things like name-calling and picture- likeng (?, if ever there is a word:-)). number one rule in debate: don't use emotion and be onion-skinned, else you would really look pathetic. better close this thread before all of you stoop down to er, fetus-like (?)..
mo lang!
Advocate and unjustified Rape/child abuse comparisons
Ummjake beat me to it
-1 There are NO decent rape statistics for GCC,
-2 Women in west more likely to go to police than a women in middle east - honour etc,
-3 Raping your wife is not a crime in middle east,
-3 Some cultural practices such as the marying of minors in middle east, are classed as child abuse in west.
-4 Marying/sexual relations with relatives can also be a crime,
So you can see the numbers are going to be much much less than west becuse you dont report half the crimes. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Penny: lol, i didn't offend any fellow muslim, Islam is a religion of Peace, love and tolerance. Someone that tries to impose their points of view and intolerance towards the ones that have different opinions cannot be a true follower of Allah, if He wanted us to have all the same opinion and views he wouldn't have created us as racional beings.
If a critic is constructive why should we feal offended by it? It can only help.
knowledge: What's hurting you? I belive in Allah and that all is submited to His will. Why do you offend the ones that don't think like you? Remember that this topic is about freedom to criticise religion and that some "supposed" muslims hijacked the thread towards an attack to Islam with their own words.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Your kind i would love to see in the open, what kind of a person would you be. A little 3ft troll. I bet you drive a white Toyota and brake in front of unsuspected people who piss you off for sticking to the road rules. But here again you hide behind your screen attacking people. It just goes to show your mentality is still smaller then your penis…same as all Toyota drivers, small penis and big egos.
by the way, waiting for YOU to prove I have been bannned from QL.
Oh you can't.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
love em, they went to bed or google was down.
The 3 Stooges stumped.
You have to love them.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I do apologise to Muslims on here.
The ones I know are true to their faith. I am an athiest as you all know. However, I do respect religon for other people.
But these 3 rofl. They must share a brain or a name on QL.
By the way still waiting for Eco.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
**Isn't it complicated as it is already?
Lets stick to this particular resolution...
Having said that, I see your argument within the context of this resolution... even though I do not see anything wrong in their referring to Islam and Muslims in particular... I do not see any value in them referring to Islam and Muslims in particular either... in which case it would have diplomatically more tact to just leave out specific to any religion all together... but that is just politics... we should be more bothered about the idea...
Mon, 23/03/2009 - 10:57pm reply
Is that not as clear as mud?
Hashin give it up love, even with copy and paste you muck it up. rofl
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
You laughed so much before over me being banned and yet when challenged he failed to come up with the goods.
You may want to feed your Lemming some more food.
Over to you, my learned friends lol.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
**You ACTUALLY add more value to the thread by spell checking other people's comments than you do by expressing your own thoughts...
I almost feel compelled to tip you for your services... but only so long as you keep your thoughts to yourself... **
lol, you do sound so clever to RETARDS.
You check me and then I check you. Dear Hashin, try as you might, you will not get the better of me (dear).
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Isn't it complicated as it is already?
Lets stick to this particular resolution...
Having said that, I see your argument within the context of this resolution... even though I do not see anything wrong in their referring to Islam and Muslims in particular... I do not see any value in them referring to Islam and Muslims in particular either... in which case it would have diplomatically more tact to just leave out specific to any religion all together... but that is just politics... we should be more bothered about the idea...
Why are you bothering to be reasonable? I tried, others tried.
I can see you are a good person, these three are just thick. Sorry, but they are.
They do not represent the Islam I know of, or certainly my Muslim friends.
They have lied, insulted, copied and pasted things they don't understand.
I have tried to reason with them. You have, 3/4 0f QL has.
They do not get for one moment how bad they are coming across.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
You ACTUALLY add more value to the thread by spell checking other people's comments than you do by expressing your own thoughts...
I almost feel compelled to tip you for your services... but only so long as you keep your thoughts to yourself...
It was too ironic for you ROFL!!!!
Oh, the fun of this.
**Shouldn't it be, "Mind you, great American speaking guys?"**
And even with YOU trying to correct me, you get it wrong. Americans speak English, that was American speak lol
**that was awesome knowledge... haven't luaghed so hard in a looooong time :-))...
oops sorry...
haven't luaghed so hard for a looooong time '!'**
Laughed I think is the word you are trying to spell.
Oh 'H' was the start of a new sentence so should be capitalised.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
homosexuals in the section wherein they discuss religion.
But the larger Durban II document is about "racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance", and if you read the document (still with many specific points in draft form) it touches upon discrimination based on ethnicity, religion, etc.
So in light of its over-arching theme of anti-discrimination based on nearly every other variable EXCEPT for sexual orientation, then yeah, I feel they are being remiss by excluding that specifically.
Clearly you disagree. And that's okay. It's just my opinion.
And while I would acknowledge that Muslims have definitely faced discrimination (especially post 9/11), again, if you're going to give a shout out to them, then you really should give a shout out to every marginalized group (because by excluding the others but mentioning Muslims, it then seems as if you're ignoring/diminishing the importance of the other instances when religious discrimination occurs).
And since you'd be hard-pressed to mention by name EVERY single group that EVER was discriminated against because of their religion, better to just make general statements about how it's not a nice thing to do.
Personally, I also take issue with the explicit mention of the Holocaust within the document. If there are folks who continue to insist that it never happened, so be it. That's their personal issue to deal with, and as long as they don't discriminate against someone who is Jewish, then I don't care what they think happened in those concentration camps.
And if you don't believe me that the document is a draft in progress, and that it has been amended recently in light of various criticisms, do a google search.
Can I just add: I think this thread/debate has taken on a nicer, more collegial tone recently (with a few notable exceptions...). Let's try to keep it that way folks!
that was awesome knowledge... haven't laughed so hard in a looooong time :-))...
oops sorry...
haven't laughed so hard in a looooong time '!'
Its only now I saw the 'pitfall' bit.... MAN you are on a ROLL
"Mind you, great American speak guys."
I see a mistake in your spelling or grammar ...check YOURSELF.
Shouldn't it be, "Mind you, great American speaking guys?"
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Carry on dear. Feel free to prove anything anytime you like. If I have been, what was it banned? Why am I here?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
dont flatter her pls
** you found an English spelling error while arguing with a person who's second language is English... you being a native speaker of English... my my my... you are pointing out a typo... not even a grammatical error... you found a typo... BRAVO penny BRAVO **
Found quite a few dear this is for you, with you being err, (won't say it).
Fondu quiet a wef dare. That better?
** knowledge_is_light said PennyPitBull ...
Stop your barkin' and bitin'...just admit defeat. Hashin and Advocate have won their debate against you. Pack your bags and check into the dog pound...**
Can you tell me when that happened? This is a debate not a war. Oh, and yet again they revert to insulting. How tolerant you are.
Pssssssssssst, Penny is a name so spelt with a capital 'P' dear.
who's = who is
barkin lol even with your cute ' should read barkinG
ditto with your cute bitin.
Mind you, great American speak guys.
Do you think she took our advice and checked into the mental hospital or dog pound?
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Lets call her.......... denny
LOL...
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
don't call her a pitbull
Its not right for you to defame dogs ;-)
Stop your barkin' and bitin'...just admit defeat. Hashin and Advocate have won their debate against you. Pack your bags and check into the dog pound...
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Earlier on you were saying that I was copy pasting?... A LIE...
Now you found a TYPO...
what are you going to pick on next... my font size?
you found an English spelling error while arguing with a person who's second language is English... you being a native speaker of English... my my my... you are pointing out a typo... not even a grammatical error... you found a typo... BRAVO penny BRAVO
I have said it before and I say it again...
people need to understand the difference between defamation and criticism...
Defamation is a crime worthy of punishment
Freedom of speech does not mean you can get away saying anything and everything... it has to be based on facts OR you are accountable to the law
Even in the US which is proud of the way in which it exercises the freedom of speech, if you commit libel or slander... both of which constitutes defamation, you are liable to be sued, ie. it is against the law...
this resolution is about the 'defamation' of religion... if an individual or an organization can and is protected against defamation even in the US, I do not see anything wrong with religions being protected against defamation as well...
** she is quiet capable of pointing it out herself...**
Did you mean 'quite' capable of pointing this out herself or she is quiet?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
What kind of Lawyer are you again?
Oh that's right we have not proved that yet have we.
Just as much as Eco has not proved that I 'allegedly' have been banned from QL. Lol again Advocat you amaze me with your staggering stupidity.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I am replying to one comment made by ummjake specifically to me...
If she feels that I have not replied to any specific point in that comment, she is quiet capable of pointing it out herself...
You expect a resolution against religious defamation to include the protection of homosexuals???... what else do you expect it to do... bring rain to the Sahara?
Lets get real, homosexuals are not a race, nor are they a religion... so I don't see ANY substance in your argument...
As for your objections to what USED TO BE in an EARLIER VERSION of ANOTHER document that it has underlined?!?!!?... Seriously? Are you kidding me? Its absolute hog wash...
Its like saying I don't like you cos your neighbour's dog's vet did not smile at my dad when they passed each other at the mall although the vet later said that he must have missed my dad or he would indeed have smiled...
Penny come on grow up and confess your scam! I wonder who appointed you as an examiner...... my god; i can’t even imagine how much suffering was attributed to your students! A teacher is a fraud!!!! That’s’ why i am stressing to visit mental hospital and get properly cured.
Until now i was communicating with a fraud!!
Shame.... shame..... Shame...... shame...... shame......shame.....
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
yet again you miss the salient parts of Umm's thread lol
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Sorry what does that prove? Silly, silly person. Grow up.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
And yes it does mention Islam because Islam is the most defamed and misinterpreted religion in the world and all Muslims are suffering for it... Its about time something was done about the stereo-typing... on this thread I've been categorized as a child killer, charged with plagiarism and God knows what else others have has said against them so its only fair that Islam wins a mention in particular in the resolution and I see nothing wrong with that... the resolution in no way implies that other religions do not get defamed, maybe they do but none as much as Islam...
a bit, looking at his more recent posts compared to his earlier ones...the more current ones are easier to understand and less offensive (to me).
I WASN'T trying to argue that Islam or any religion should be "ammended" to suit one's tastes. When I said that religion should be flexible I meant that back when it all began there weren't all the things and issues we have to deal with today; there was no internet or airplanes or IVF treatments and DNA testing or human rights documents...
So I like to think that religion can adapt and still be applied to today, in that it takes into account the changing face of contemporary life and the new issues that have been raised.
That's all.
And I am glad to hear you acknowledge that the Middle East and Arab world DO have the same problems that we have in the west. It's just that we're a bit more open about that and actually keep statistics on that sort of thing.
Funny anecdote (a little off topic, but I just reminded myself): a few years ago a teaching colleague was doing a unit with his high school science class on HIV and AIDS. The class was looking at the most recent worldwide statistics on the rates of infection. Nearly all the GCC countries had listed "0" cases. The students all assumed that meant that there was no HIV/AIDS here, and they said as much. Their homework was to think about it a bit more, and figure out another reason why the rates ALL around the GCC might be so strangely, abnormally low. Finally one kid figured it out: the governments here just refused to keep official track of it (or share that information publicly) because it made them look bad.
ooopss and oooops
lol ok Eco. Can you prove that?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
and which words of mine have hurt your gentle self...
you should consider changing your name from platao to placate...
Using different names after being banned....... This sounds fishy! Now i can understand the whole story.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Ooooops.....
It seems that you're trying to visit a page that is for Qatar Living members only. Don't worry - it's free to register and should only take a minute. Once you're done, just try again :-)
Please feel free to prove your accusations.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
using different usernames after being banned and not having guts to confess the fact……………………. Is this not hypocrisy by default?
I am really stunned……
A person who was claiming to be an intellectual and to my surprise examiner for some examinations…….. is a FRAUD……!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Eco…..
Why she [penny] is using different usernames. Was she banned????????????????? If so, why? Please enlighten us more about this.
I am bewildered to see that “self proclaimed intellectuals” too get banned herein?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I as a Muslim do not any certification from hypocrites. Better keep your views applicable to you EXCLUSIVELY.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Feel free.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
infact some are paid bots. Their main purpose is to misguide
shall i get more?
world a unsafe place to live in. not to mention hpw people feel towards the muslim race of people. you should check in to have that rehab...
You said: "I'm a moderated muslim, just like PM or others in this forum"
Why don't you join the caravan of the TRUE MUSLIMEEN and leave the caravan of the MUNAAFIQEEN? Go get some Islamic knowledge then you would not be offended so easily.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Problem rests with negativity of your mind penny.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I appreciate your move towards Islam!... the One & Only Universal Religion. May Allah bless us all!
That’s’ why I tolerated all your remarks…. Even when you termed me as follower of Satan!!! Nauzbillah………. You should not pass such remarks at all.
I am preaching hate?? No way bro..
Just an advice…. try to read Quran as much as you can….
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Sorry to ask but is it not against Islam to insult another Muslim.
Why would Advocat want to Insult you by calling you brainwashed?
Seems wrong to me.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Advocate: Brainwashed muslim? Guess you didn't read that i'm a new convert did you? Someone who spills hate all over the place calls brainwashed to me?
Penny: No prob, we all know that who truelly submits to Allah can't accept that some Djiin followers try to destroy this world that He created with all His love.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Well, now hypocrites joined hands!!!
You are not an accused rather you should be convicted penny…..
Please pay attention to your health….. now your frustration is going to transform into nervous breakdown.
From what we had until now in this thread I can say that you have serious problems with you.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Moderated Muslim or brainwashed Muslim!!!!
May Allah bless you! That’s what I can say
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Thank you for your comments.
I will be the first to say that in the West we have many vices. However, as you say Road, here in the Middle East there are all the same vices but they are hidden.
I really don't care if Muslims drink etc. That is up to them. Their business.
What I hate about it all is this. They criticise our lifestyle and yet is theirs any better?
Do these people honestly think we don't KNOW what goes on?
We know it goes on, we see it for goodness sake.
I am fed up with people like Advocat saying, 'I have lived in the West and I know what you lot are like'.
Then when we say, 'I have lived in the Middle East for (fill in the blank), we know what you are like'. We are accused of being racist, zionists and attacking Islam.
I don't mind Advocat or anybody else for that matter, boycotting Israel, that is their choice.
What I do resent is being told by somebody, who I feel has done a great injustice to Muslims/Islam, that if I do not AGREE with everything he says or I question him, I am nutter that needs locking up because I may harm my family after my mental breakdown.
He can't have it all his own way can he? He can't say in one thread, it's ok to criticise but not INSULT and then come out with abuse like he has.
He hardly comes across as the tolerant, peaceful, intelligent Indian Muslim with a Masters in Law does he?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
The nature and quantum of punishment for this offence is most serious under Islamic laws. Are you aware of the same?
FYI, In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes ech month and 683,280 rapes each year.
SOUCRE: http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html
For child sex abuse:
http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm
Re Muslims you are free to comment. You are right, many of us are on wrong way…..
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Penny you are back again…… I thought that you got admitted in some hospital for your treatment.
Again interrupted in discussion…….. you have some serious virus in your mind.
Below are some links which can be useful for your treatment:
www.priory-hospital.co.uk/
www.wlmht.nhs.uk/
www.cygnethealth.co.uk/
Let me know of you need some more info……
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Plaato - I agree - Kuwait has been stealing land from Iraq recently!!!
Concerning number of pages i think record is 9.
Penny: Islam is about love but some satanists are trying to deceive belivers of all religions (think there's a reference in the bible regarding this).
Advokate is one of those, he's trying to make of Islam a religion to be feared, guess it may be due to some jealousy he feals towards the other religions.
I wonder why doesn't he cry about those pieces taken by other Arab countries from Palestina and only blames Israel? Not that Israel is innocent but they did the same as others just that they were forced to defend it. Do you remember Palestinian resistence attacking Syria or Egypt?
The other muslim countries know they would have everything to loose, so they are cautious.
Eco kinda gets lost quite often when posting.
scarlett: Welcome back my good friend :)
knowledge: As a muslim i feal more offended by the words of advocate, yours and hashin thatn by the words of the non belivers.
Yes, I'm a westerner muslim.
Eco: What's hurting you?
ummmjake: I'm a moderated muslim, just like PM or others in this forum that have been always calling attention that some people like Advocate aren't truelly muslims but obey their Djiin master, Satan.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Please stop with the accusation on Rape, in middle east you do not believe there is such a thing as rape in marriage. In the west it is a crime!
Also child abuse your talking rubbish again, in the west the marrying of minors is seen as child abuse/exploitation.
The middle east has its fair share of problems - which muslims are sponsoring all the prostitutes that come to the middle east??? Why do all those saudis muslims feel the need to come to bahrain/qatar/dubai to get drunk etc??? The abuse of maids etc. In the west you would go to jail.
By the same token muslims need to stand up to Bin laden etc and condemn them, which is why your getting people in the west saying 'islam is the problem' Keeping quiet will continue to harm islam.
Laughing so much at you.
Have you heard of Bushisms?
I think we should have Advocatisms.
Seriously, as I have said before, you make my day you really do. Thanks for that.
You spout so well.
Brings to mind the saying, 'empty vessels make the most sound'.
It's ok advocat, we get it now dear.
You are right and the rest of us are all wrong.
There, is that what you wanted to hear?
Now run along dear.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
My 5th or 6th ID?? Is it? Wow, you must know more than me then. Feel free to prove that one if you can.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Sorry ummjake…. Islam can be not be amended as per requirements of contemporary civilization. It is a command of Allah, the Only Almighty and no one except than of Him has any right for such amendments*.
Re covering of face/hands/ feet please follow the link for answer:
http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
Penny this apparition is the problem. We are not accusing you that west is preaching idea for same sex marriage….. Despite of free sex society rape cases are on their peak……… children’s are born out of wedlock and a child sometime does not knows about his/her real father….. and so on….. list is very exhaustive….!
This is your culture and your way of life…… we don’t have any problem with these but why you insist to follow yours’ course of action. Why we as Muslims should adhere top the western cultures which is itself against basic principles of Christianity.
I am only 24, being for merely 1 year in professional life, I too have many female colleagues but I DON’T shake hand with them since this is not a mandatory part of life. Islam commands us to not do so and I follow the same with utmost precaution…. Again you are wrong in interpretation….. See the outcome of flawing religious lines…… see increase in rape cases in your won country……. , Islam responsibly channels sexual instincts through marriage, with the prior condition of psychological maturity. And contrary to claims of improved morality, non-Islamic laws have alarmingly driven child sexual abuse and psychological harm to epidemic proportions.
Therefore, when such attacks against Islam are analyzed impartially, they reveal the perfect applicability of Islam’s solution from the 7th century until today, and the utter failure of any other system to provide any protection whatsoever to society’s youth. At best, these attacks are also found to be irresponsibly superficial due to the seriousness of this issue…
Yes Quran is the MOST important book for us. There is no denying this fact. Have you ever read Quran? If not, read it once in a life time.
Yes materials ( either from TV, radio, magazines etc.) which are obscene and indecent and which can hamper fine line of public order……. are discouraged by us.
See Ummjake……. It is your perception how you look the things and in which manner? I am not sure of which other thread you are referring here? FYI, the roots of terrorism in modern worlds has its origin back to your country’s policies which were fabricated under pressure of Zionists. 9bn tax dollars which is used to kill innocents can not claim legitimacy on any grounds.
I am not blaming you or other nationals of the said country…. But policies of imperialism and neo colonialism shall prove very fatal for peace and its existence in this world.
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Advocate interesting article, balanced as starts of with bashing the west then ends up saying about the need to criticise Islam.
"If we fail to modernise the Islamic Sharias then possibly many orthodox leaders like Shaekh Rahman, Bangla Bhai will appear again and again to torment our society by distorting the real image of Islam"
I agree with Ummjake about increasing Islam's PR, but the problem is its only extremists who stand up. Its so hard to get moderate muslims to speak up as i can only guess they are scared they will be called traitors.
moderate and extreme, advocatefk.
For me moderate is someone who sees their faith as being flexible, adapting to the times...and when I think of Islam and Muslims and I use the word "moderate", I think of people who are educated, who have friends of other faiths, who can look at their own culture/religion/society and find areas where it needs improving. People who aren't against mixed education; women who don't cover their faces/hands/feet; men who don't have a problem with their wives working.
Extremists would be those guys with the long beards and the short thobes, who refuse to shake my hand because I am a woman; they make their kids go to segregated schools and marry them off before they turn 18; they view women as baby factories (who should remain barefoot and pregnant at home) and generally have about a dozen kids; they think everything that comes out of the west is tainted and toxic; music/movies/TV/internet is all bad for you; who think the Koran is the only book you ever need read; who think Jews are all prophet killers.
That is how I think of it, at least.
I take Roadtester's point of the semantic differences between "extremist" and "devout". For me, extremist and fundamentalist are the more closely associated words. Devout people are, to me, those who quietly live good lives, folowing the rules they believe in. And I would agree -- extremists of any belief system are scary people.
You keep bringing up the ROOT causes of terrorism, but what we're talking about here is criticism of religion, not who threw the first rock in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And while I may (in another thread please!) entertain a discussion on the root causes of that situation, I hope you aren't trying to argue that those root causes JUSTIFY whatever responses came as a result, because I would vehemently disagree with that.
I would definitely agree that Islam has a huge PR problem in the west. And while we could have an infinite numer of discussions on the bias of the media, etc., what I would like to see is this part of the world putting our more positive images of Islam, Muslims and the Middle East, to help combat the negative sterotypes and bad press they've gotten.
As important as "image" and public perception are in this culture, I am amazed that they haven't jumped on this bandwagon sooner.
Yes, I will not term the said bombers as Christian bombers or religious terrorist rather I will prefer terming them just and as simple as “terrorist”….. Christianity does not allow terrorism.
Terrorist have no religion….they have their own agenda which they carry forward in disguise of religion… be it Islam or Christianity…
Follow the link to have better understanding of this issue.
http://www.dhakacourier.net/issue02/feature/doc4.htm
US$ 9 billion come out from tax payers not from any reserve…. But people should not be blamed at all….. it is the government and polices which are to be blamed.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I'm sorry advocate - but pretty much everyone agrees that: extremists means people who misuse religion.
You cant keep saying that terrorists are "not muslim" in the same way you cant call christian abortion bombers "not christian". Both groups believe they are fighting for the religion.
Now you bringing up USA smokescreen again to say that terrorism is ok. The USA government NOT its people give that 9 billion aid to Isreal every year, you sound like you are justifying 9/11 again.
Religion is for everyones benifit
Dan
Enjoy movies at www.Hope4Living.com
Roadster…. It is your decision how you choose referring them?
I don’t subscribe to idea of extremism in Islam. One who misuses Islamic principles in pursuit of his nefarious designs can not be termed as Muslim at all! Just born to Muslim parents and bearing a Muslim name are not enough to term some one as a Muslim.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
UMMJAKE….
There is nothing like “moderate” and “extremist” theory. The fact is that this theory was launched and procured by west to divide Muslims on religious lines.
For instance, if a Muslim is following rigorously the commands as laid down by Allah, the only Almighty, he is rightly to be said as “extremist in Islam”……… by default he/she would not do any thing which is unjust under purview of Islamic teachings….. accordingly, he/she is much better than more of so called moderate Muslims.
Actually the theory of moderate and extremist is not collaborated to Islam and its teachings.
The act of terrorism itself is subject to be criticized …….
Again UMMJAKE…….. you are trying to play smart here. Look at the data posted above in this thread showing the records accessible for terrorist attack in EU. It is evident therein that majority of terrorist attack were carried by separatist rater than Islamist, but western media prefer hush on this.
One thing more needs to be discussed…… the cause and roots which breeds terrorism! We only consider the consequences but we don’t take care of the root problems, Muslims are subject to alienation in contemporary world due to imperialistic polices of USA in due to pressure from Zionist lobby, the western media is busy just in portraying Muslims as terrorist and generalizing the concept that Islam is against peace.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I think advocate you are tying yourself up with the meaning of 'extremism' which you are mixing up with the better word called 'devout' which you may have heard, which means you strongly practice your faith but not usually in a negative way.
Extremists are devout but often in a negative way - hence extremists, both jew, christian and muslim who take certain paragraph,sunnah,hadith etc and twist it to there agenda.
Roadster…
That’s the point.
Yes of course, terrorist should be not only be criticized rather condemned too, but not religion itself.
I am not convinced with idea of “extremism” and I don’t subscribe to this theory..
Terrorism should be condemned in all possible way.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Precisely because most of the miscreants who do these awful things specificaly SAY that they are doing so in the name of Allah or God or their religion. That's why!
It's been brought up before, but again -- the invisible majority of moderate Muslims fail to speak out publicly when stuff like this happens -- so what the rest of the non-Muslim world sees and hears is a bunch of people who say they are Muslims, committing some atrocity which they say they have done in the name of Islam.
And while I understand what you and other posters have said about Muslims being especially sensitive or devout in their faith, and that's why they take it so personally when someone criticizes Islam, the bottom line is that it's still going to happen.
The rest of the world will not agree to treat your faith with kid gloves just because it hurts your sensibilities when people say mean things about Islam. Nobody gets special treatment.
Nor does anyone get license to respond to said criticism in a violent way, just because they feel they've been provoked. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and emotions.
If you dont criticise extremists of all religions they get stronger.
Supports Israel and killing of innocents….. so admit that you are a Zionist… come on don’t shy and assert candidly that you are a noxious stupid Zionist…. …….. Yours words are really vicious…….
As far as my qualifications are concerned who gave this authority to you to even ask for such things?????
I am not behind the scene…… I am in the front row……….
I am not asking you to support Palestine at all! From where did you generate this opinion??? It is your preference and you already said that your support Israel………. That’s the end of story.
For religion, I am firm on my stand………..
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My point….. why to criticize religion in these affairs?
Vehemently criticize the terrorists who misuse religion for their acts and deeds! Btw I am not being unreasonable about this prevailing tendency rather it a truth and you have to admit this fact!
Religion is something very very sacred for the followers…. It should not be subject to criticism like review of any movie.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Sorry to say advocatefk ..but it is religion and people like you that make this great world a very unsafe place. and yes please scan your qualifications and post here, because i feel you are not who you say you are, and like most cowards hide behind a screen. i fully support Israel as you support the other side. Each to their own. Here to free speech. Not everyone supports Palestine. That’s the best part of our free would out side the Arab stated. We are free to choose what we want to think and believe with out religion ruling our minds.
Advocate - i mentioned clearly earlier that other religions get criticsed for the "bad minority" BUT people stand up and very vocally criticise them.
In the US they have had Christian terrorists blowing up abortion clinics - christians unite to complain and condenm it - you do realise this???
You should really look at other religions as well. STOP being so paranoid that its only islam that gets criticised.
Again advocate you say; "For Muslims, I can say that who misuse religion for his/her vested interests can not claim himself/ herself as a Muslim"
I dont hear anyone saying they are not msulims
No roadster……… no religion stands for criticism! It is the followers who should be criticized for their acts and deeds
Yes, you have all rights vested within your domain to criticize Muslims but not Islam itself.
Re “bad minority” Muslims please note that such minority exists in all religion notwithstanding their faith and religion. For Muslims, I can say that who misuse religion for his/her vested interests can not claim himself/ herself as a Muslim.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
No roadster……… no religion stands for criticism! It is the flowers who should be criticized for their acts and deeds
Yes you have all rights vested within your domain to criticize Muslims but not Islam itself.
Re “bad minority” Muslims please note that such minority exists in all religion notwithstanding their faith and religion. For Muslims, I can say that who misuse religion for his/her vested interests can not claim himself/ herself as a Muslim.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
we just need to keep mentioning boycott isreal - and we should get to 20 pages easily.
wow, this thread reminds me of the energizer bunny...goes on and on and on and on...:-)
mo lang!
I just see valid debate and errrr well, playground banter......
Back on topic - i believe all religion should be open to criticism.
Advocate is a case in point, he wont accept there are some bad minority muslims, and just says "they are not muslims" and shuts the discussion down. Which is niave, the people who do these terrible acts need to be vocally criticised.
“Eco-savvy said Penny btw this must be your 5th or 6th id ...
does compmad knows about your background???”
Really Eco…..
Why 5th or 6th id?
Please enlighten us on this! I am new to QL. I am not aware of this fact!
They are biased to the extent you can not even imagine…..
And one “mad” is appreciating her patience… joke of the day!
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COMPMAD….
Who is mad…. It is apparent!
“What worries me is he claims to be Indian, which I honestly believe is not true”…….
Then what should you do? Are you from RSS????
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Very authoritarian! This shown your mental status!
In principle, I have no objection in compliance of what I said before…….. but why i should do so? Am I required to prove myself before you? What exactly do you think of your self?
I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN AN IDIOT LIKE YOU! Before referring me as idiot, check your own credentials.
I do not remember all verses of Quran by heart and meaning thereof! Sources whether books or e materials are available for reading and understanding. You have made a story out of copy and paste affair….. let me tell you that googling is not a crime and I am not violating any IPR laws! You sound like a Zionist here!
I have given many proofs earlier on the topic which is in discussion in this thread….. but you intentionally ignored it…… I can understand your irritation, pain and agony. You are loosing and left with no other option…….. I am afraid whether this may lead to some mental attack leading trauma for your family.
I have given my profile and I am of the opinion that I should not give anything else…. To such mentally sick person,
Why I shall give you Proofs? Are you my employer? Am indebted to you? You are dictating like that you owe me. Anyway I shall be glad to provide my degrees provided that you take the lead and show me that you are mentally fit ( I mean any certificate from psychiatrist) and send me your full cv enclosed with your all degrees!
( how this sounds)
That’s why I said get back to MENTAL HOSPITAL where you were before!
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then teaching experience works here, so you become English Teacher
Have you noticed when teacher has nothing to say, she simply starts nitpicking Your M is not straight, you cannot write well.
does compmad knows about your background???
thats what penny has been doing all along and now Scarlett has joined the act... I wonder where I have copy and pasted... its just absolutely absurd...
I guess the both of you are so biased against my religion that when you see a Muslim speak good English and reason well, you just automatically assume that I must be copying it from somewhere else...
I have put the resolution there for all to read because penny and many others have been blasting the resolution with ABSOLUTELY no idea what its about. Did anyone even bother to read the resolution itself?????
People... I have put the resolution up there... please read it before you start criticizing it... I have no problems with people criticizing Islam but almost always its a misinterpretation... if you don't care enuff to read and understand something, I don't believe you have the right to start criticizing it either, atleast try do your own homework first...
No one has anything to say against the resolution because there is nothing there to complain about... So you have now shifted your attention to targeting me and advocate... why? cos you can't thrash the resolution any longer and generally BS so start making your attacks personal... petty people...
penny, I admire you patience. But don't you know the proverb " you never win argument with idiots." more so with sick people like advocate.
What worries me is he claims to be Indian, which I honestly believe is not true.
feel free to show this discussion to who you want.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
**Thank you for your “valuable” comments. Should i scan my degree and bar admission certificate and attach it herewith so you have a glance over it??????????**
Yes do so.
**Per your standards i do not qualify to be admitted in Kings?? **
No you don't but as soon as you scan things to me I will check your name out and get back to you.
**The two years in west certainly changed my visualization and perception!!!**
I would have thought that you knew about the West before you went there, especially with you being so good with googling and all.
**FYI, i have also served as General Secretary of AMU students union, which is one of the largest and central universities of India. Just google it or my name and you would get the results......**
Give me your REAL name and I will.
**You know penny...... going through your all posts herein i can not stress more... but i must say again..... get proper medical treatment. Really you need proper medical attention**
Why? Is disagreeing with an idiot a disease now?
**Yes, i am no authority on Islam.... and even not a self-proclaimed intellectual like you **
lol and yet you googled so well! And yet you are an 'intellectual' as you have a MA from Kings. Never proclaimed anything, you did!
**since based on your post i assume that you are a “teacher” so you must be aware of the fact that no one is born learned....**
Actually I go on the basis we teach to learn.
**If i am not mistaken here i am of the opinion that you are trying to prevail on this discussion by imposing your atheist views.
If you need some help in your treatment let me know........
Anyway get well soon.*8
Not trying anything other than trying to show what a complete idiot you are. But then again I don't need to. You do that. By the way, as always you have not answered the questions I put to you.
Which degree did you do?
Oh none, I think is the answer to that.
However, as soon as you send me proof as you wanted to, I can check that out no worry.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Penny if i say...
I was showing the thread to some of my colleagues and one of them was a Christian and one atheist..... but they were against the way in which you handled the discussion!!!!!
Come on ......grow up penny..... what a nonsense you are referring to? You said me a kid before...... now what idiom should i use for you?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Thank you for your “valuable” comments. Should i scan my degree and bar admission certificate and attach it herewith so you have a glance over it??????????
Per your standards i do not qualify to be admitted in Kings?? That’s why i am asking you to sue the university which awarded me degree of law. FYI, use of salutation of barrister is prohibited under Indian Advocates Act 1961. I was not under any scholarship rather on my own means! The two years in west certainly changed my visualization and perception!!! Earlier i was thinking very high about the west but being there and faced racial and religious discrimination changed my vision at all!
Debate-------- do you actually know what debates means? FYI, i have also served as General Secretary of AMU students union, which is one of the largest and central universities of India. Just google it or my name and you would get the results....... election of students union is totally based on debate..... but those debates are actually debated on certain legitimate grounds.....
You know penny...... going through your all posts herein i can not stress more... but i must say again..... get proper medical treatment. Really you need proper medical attention.
Yes, i am no authority on Islam.... and even not a self-proclaimed intellectual like you yet, i am just a follower and trying hard to learn more and more about Islam.... since based on your post i assume that you are a “teacher” so you must be aware of the fact that no one is born learned....
I feel really sorry for you and your prejudiced way of thinking. I don’t know what exactly you need? If i am not mistaken here i am of the opinion that you are trying to prevail on this discussion by imposing your atheist views.
If you need some help in your treatment let me know........
Anyway get well soon.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Thank you for your “valuable” comments. Should i scan my degree and bar admission certificate and attach it herewith so you have a glance over it??????????
Per your standards i do not qualify to be admitted in Kings?? That’s why i am asking you to sue the university which awarded me degree of law. FYI, use of salutation of barrister is prohibited under Indian Advocates Act 1961. I was not under any scholarship rather on my own means! The two years in west certainly changed my visualization and perception!!! Earlier i was thinking very high about the west but being there and faced racial and religious discrimination changed my vision at all!
Debate-------- do you actually know what debates means? FYI, i have also served as General Secretary of AMU students union, which is one of the largest and central universities of India. Just google it or my name and you would get the results....... election of students union is totally based on debate..... but those debates are actually debated on certain legitimate grounds.....
You know penny...... going through your all posts herein i can not stress more... but i must say again..... get proper medical treatment. Really you need proper medical attention.
Yes, i am no authority on Islam.... and even not a self-proclaimed intellectual like you yet, i am just a follower and trying hard to learn more and more about Islam.... since based on your post i assume that you are a “teacher” so you must be aware of the fact that no one is born learned....
I feel really sorry for you and your prejudiced way of thinking. I don’t know what exactly you need? If i am not mistaken here i am of the opinion that you are trying to prevail on this discussion by imposing your atheist views.
If you need some help in your treatment let me know........
Anyway get well soon.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
An intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more VIOLENT. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction!
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
You’re having delusions of competence.
PennyPorkchops:
If your conscience could be surgically removed, it would be a minor operation.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
ahh dear, you are fighting a losing battle...I can play your silly sarcastic comments game all day long and never run out of them...but that's like shooting fish in a barrel with you...no competition at all...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
You're a person of rare intelligence. It's rare when you show any.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
If I could remember if you were intelligent, I would actually respond to you..but senility keeps me from doing so.
eco...you aren't worth the effort
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
LOooooooooooL! Thanx 4 sharing. :D How can anyone in their right mind take Wafa SHAYTAN seriously after she said she DOESN'T believe in Islam but she's MUSLIM?
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
How true. I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine today and I briefed her on this debate. In fact as we were on a break I logged on and showed her what I had said and what Advocat had posted.
She was truly mortified. She is a very devout lovely lady who was truly horrified at what he said. As were a lot of the Muslim people who use QL.
The thing is, what he does not get, nobody was against his stance on Israel, nobody was really against his signature. It was the way he went about it that was wrong.
Hence my doubt about him being a Lawyer.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
this thread really draws you in.. Scarlett.. you've been snared.. it's harder to quit posting to it than you think!
have a look at her sister
you said:
"you are too thin skinned. Grow up"
I say:
Why don't you act your age -- SENILE!!!!!!!!!
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
I DO agree penny...
**We also feel this way about you non-Muslims who can't understand why Islam cannot be insulted and slandered.***
We also feel this way about you non Christians or athiests, who insult and slander the West and our ways.
Silly me, got it wrong again. You can say and do what you like. We can't. Oops.
Seems to be a one way road with some folks, doesn't it? whatever happened to the old adage..whats good for the goose is good for the gander?
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
hopefully the judge allows him to have his laptop on the desk or he'd most likely be lost.
Some people can only spout and not think for themselves...The many Muslims I know are not like that and can intelligently hold a conversation about their religion without resorting to google or cut and paste. Nor are they total brick heads when it comes to their religion. The are very devout and faithful in their practices and also very upset with those that do the suicide bombings as it puts their religion in a bad light throughout the world.
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
***I don't recall this being an English Composition and Research forum/class. We're not here for English lessons**
^^^^
You are right. We are here to discuss 'freedom of speech'. I think I just exercised my right to do so.
**We also feel this way about you non-Muslims who can't understand why Islam cannot be insulted and slandered.***
We also feel this way about you non Christians or athiests, who insult and slander the West and our ways.
Silly me, got it wrong again. You can say and do what you like. We can't. Oops.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
i am not here for an Islam lesson. He needs to stick to the topic..not go off on a rant. Plagerism is plagerism, i don't care WHAT matter of writing it is...
I haven't seen anywhere on this thread where anyone wanted to slander or insult Islam...you are too thin skinned. Grow up
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
"head against the brick wall mentality.."
We also feel this way about you non-Muslims who can't understand why Islam cannot be insulted and slandered.
Copying and pasting is perfectly fine for forums. Quit crying "plagerism." I don't recall this being an English Composition and Research forum/class. We're not here for English lessons.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
But with him being a legal eagle thought he would be interested in fact and not fiction.
Mind you saying that since Advocat has been 'debating', I have thought about investing in shares in google. Seems to have been used a lot lately by our learned freind.
Lol at the thought, him in court being asked to produce facts, shhhhhhh he says let me log on and google. lol
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
shhhh...plagerism is a horrible thing to waste...don't blow his cover...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
Wow, Kings College eh?
Blimey, we are honoured to have somebody amongst us from one of the Top 25 Universities in the world.
Masters eh?
Interesting that!
Was it Masters in Medical Ethics and Law (1 Year)
EU Law MA, PG, Dip (1 Year)
or
Masters of Law LLM - distance learning (2 - 8 Years)
I am also wondering where you Scholarship? Of which 5 are offered each year. Most of them actually going to Nalsar University of Law, Hyderbad.
Or did you have the relevant qualifications, i.e. Been a Barrister?
Also, I KNOW the criteria for admission is high, especially in standard of spoken and wriiten English.
I have marked exam papers for admission to a Univeristy and the University I worked at, worked very hard to make sure ALL overseas students were given a fair crack of the whip. However, your English is good but it would not past muster for entry at MA level, especially at Kings.
Also, interesting ins't it, that it took to page 6 to admit you are a ?Lawyer and yet (maybe wrong), I always thought one of the gifts for Law;
was the ability to debate - you don't do that well.
the ability to listen and understand another persons view point - you don't do that.
the ability to lose gracefully - you don't do that.
In fact, as far as I can see you do NOT have any of the qualifications that (a) would get you into Kings or indeed be a Lawyer.
Just read all the threads again and you seem to have a dislike of the West and yet you chose to study there?
And stayed 2 years.
Anyway, just thought I would point a few truths out.
Also, with your keen legal mind, why not answer the questions put to you from a legal standpoint instead of copying and pasting from google, the Islamic stance. (Is that how you got your ??degree?)
Over to you my learned friend.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I've been sitting here here reading this for an hour...and laughing the entire time because of the head against the brick wall mentality..
Folks I can understand if you enjoy this rhetoric but this little boy is just starved for attention. He reminds me of the kid in the classroom who is always jumping in his seat with this hand up, yelling Teacher teacher!! even though he has no clue as to the answer of the question posed to the classroom. So...he goes off on ramble just to have the entire classroom listen to him do a speech. So far, he hasn't gotten to posting anything directed at the original thread but gotten off on a tangent for hating Israel and anything not related to Islam.
hashin...come on, you are just encouraging him. usually you can put together a decent argument but today you are cutting and pasting more than usual.
All religions should be subject to criticism or at the very least discussion. People learn by questioning.
As far as Islam being the most persecuted of religions..beg to differ...Nice to live in your own little blinder world, advocate...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
Thank you for your comments which have been duly noted. I agree with you, children should not be dragged into wars but alas they are.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I think had you said to advocate...
Boycott the Middle East(or India) - the sponsor of Terrorism...to his:
Boycott Israel - the sponser of Terrorism...
that might have sunk in...as it was he's just like a dog with a bone that can't let go...sad really...either comment is absolutely stupid...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
Do a favor on yourself. Sue my university which awarded my degree of law and also sue Kings College, UK from where i obtained masters. If this is not enough sue Indian Bar Council who awarded my license to appear before courts!
Debate............. you know what debate means? Reasons and logic.... that’s what i am giving since my first post on this thread..... Problem rests with you..... it seems that you don’t want to understand anything which is out of your understandings....
Whatever copy and paste materials are posted herein.... all relevant link are also supplemented therewith.
This is not a case for me...... this is my religion and in this i cannot lose under any adverse circumstances.....
You would be loser here and hereafter.
I can understand your frustration and agony.....
Have some treatment and then get back.... get well soon
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
document (before the recent changes).
It singled out Islam specifically (why do you guys get the special mention? Why not the Hindus? Why not Jews?)
It included language on defamation of religion, which I don't agree with. This impedes freedom of speech.
But it STILL doesn't include language on discrimination of sexual orientation. If we're going to protect Gypsies and all races and religious groups, then we should include gays and lesbians under that protective umbrella too.
It reaffirms the Durban I document -- which specifically singles out Israel for its discrimination against the Palestinians. Not that I disagree with censoring them for that, but if we're going to mention them, then we should include some references to other countries too for their maltreatment of various groups. If you're going to mention one group that has behaved badly, then you should really indict them all....just to be fair.
So yeah, I take issue with the document.
I agree.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Will exercise my freedom of speech now and say, 'I doubt very much you are a Lawyer'.
Firstly, Lawyers that I know have to be able to debate - You can't!
Secondly, Lawyers have to be able to reason and get their point across without insulting - You can't.
Thirdly, Lawyers do not copy and paste from google to get their point across.
And lastly Lawyers have to admit they are wrong and sometimes lose a case -You Can't.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Wafa Shaytan is a Syrian psychiatrist who was dissatisfied with the Arab world and immigrated to America in 1979. Further, by her own declaration, she disbelieves in Islam, thus she apostatized from the religion.
“I even don’t believe in Islam, she (Wafa) says, but I am a Muslim.”
(Wafa Sultan, by Asra Q Nomani)
Her Zionist Jew paymasters have ordered her to spread mistruths and disinformation about Islam and the Shariah Law. So being that she is without morals or scruples, material wealth is more valuable to her than her family and her religion.
“Her eldest brother claims that she received a million dollars from the Jews in order to denounce Islam. Her mother, age 74, refuses to speak to her on the telephone…Dr. Sultan wants to visit Israel, hopefully soon. Monday, she will meet with the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles to advance the issue...”
(Wafa Sultan: I want to beat Islamic Prison)
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Read entire thread again with attention, you will find each and every answer….
Killing innocents human be it Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Jews, Jain etc… is not permitted under preview of Islam. If some groups are misusing the interpretation of Islamic principles, they can not claim representation of entire community!
Even Jews were killed by Nazis in Germany! USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs…. Killing of innocents in Afghanistan and Iraq by terming them terrorist….. These all acts stand on same platform….. …….Against humanity
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I think you have either ignored knowingly or overlooked my earlier post.
It should be read as follows::
Penny…… you remarks shows that you are not an atheist rather a staunch Zionist! I am sorry for this remark but you rightly deserve this.
Muslims carried suicide bombings in Palestine, Lebanon , India ect….. what proof do you have? Basically you are either victim of media trial on propaganda based against Islam or relying on west promulgated theories.
Let aside others, for India as I am an Indian and a member of Indian bar.. I have seen many false and fabricated cases of terrorism being imposed on Muslims. Finally when the matter reaches to court of law more than 98% of “accused” are not convicted and acquitted by the courts!!!
So STOP generalizing that all suicide bombings and killing is done by Muslims! Basically you and your west is so biased against Islam that you even can not see the realities. The reason after this biasness and prejudiced is rightly attributed to conversion of unexpected westerns to Islam.
Now look at the reality.
In Europe, according to a European Council report, in the year 2007, 583 failed, foiled and successful terrorist acts took place. Out of that four were attributed to Islamists, 21 to left wing, 1 to right wing, and 532 to separatists. How come we never heard of those terror acts committed by separatists? How come there was little analysis of those acts? How come the Western intellectuals are silent on such terror related incidents?
For more statistics and data follow the link:
http://www.iviews.co...
First compare the data available! And FYI, nowhere killing of innocents is allowed under Islam (see my earlier post in this thread quoted with Quranic verses evidencing the same)
Investigate and research to have details how many children were killed during recent genocide sponsored by Israel. Can you enlighten us about any data available with you which show how many civilian/ children were killed by Hamas “fire works” during its resistance to Israelis aggression?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Advocate the "armchair terrorist" comment was becuase you would not answer my question on Bin Laden misusing sunnah and hadith for killing western people, and pasted a link about silly conspiracys. I'd rather you be honest and just said you support him rather than try and divert the converstaion to US - Isreal again.
This lady is interesting.
Brother, you can believe in stones, so long as you don't throw them at me..."
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
Wafa Sultan on al-Jazeera
p.s the same numbers of christians were killed by muslims in turkey at the turn of the century as palestians killed by isreal. I dont see them making such a big fuss. (also IM NOT A CHRISTIAN)
Won't bother with the copy and paste as it takes too much time up.
Feel free to check out this link.
www.apologeticsindex.org/s37.html
Then come back and tell me I have been wrong in saying what I have been saying.
The Jews are wrong but after reading that article can you honestly say you are being good to?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
THIS IS WHAT I WROTE:
I think you will find that although Palestine has not killed as many children as Israel they have still killed children, under the banner of religion. Which in my book makes you a child killer, just like them. They kill your children, you kill Israeli children. Makes you both child killers and murderers in my eyes.
**Me saying that Penny is biased is criticism
But Penny calling all Muslims child-killers (Penny's words were... Which in my book makes you a child killer, just like them.) is defamation... and that's exactly the kind of act that this resolution is trying to stop***
You can't even get it right when it is a few posts behind you can you.
Neither you or Advocat has got ONE single independant thought in your head. All you do is cut and paste, avoid issues where you are asked a direct question.
But then again you can't can you because you would then have to admit that SOME Muslims have broken, not only the law of Islam but also the law of the land. Like some CATHOLICS were involved in the IRA. That does not mean to say I think all Catholics are terroists just like ALL Muslims are NOT terroists.
Stop twisting words and bending the rules to suit you. If you can't come up with a reasoned debate, back down when you are wrong and leave the forum.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
India gained independence from the British Empire in 1947, a year before the State of Israel was founded. Officially, India was opposed to the creation of Israel for a philosophical reason, it did not like the concept of creation of nations based on religion. This was to keep India and Pakistan in one country. Due to its opposition for creation of Pakistan based on Islam, it opposed the creation of Israel as a nation for Jews. Before Israel was created, a number of countries sent their representatives and the representative from India was a Muslim. Though Gandhi had a good relationship with Jews, he opposed the creation of Israel as he was against the creation of countries based on religion India did not have any official relations with Israel until 1991 due to its problem with Palestine
First learn the history about indo- Israel relations. Indian alliance with Israel post BJP regime is open for criticism and demonstration till now.
And India by the way is not a week nation which would depend on Israelis artilleries. India has sufficient army power to defend her borders.
Again…. This is irrelevant that I as a Indian should not oppose Zionist Israel because Israel was the one who saved India!!!!! Even if I agree with you….. would you please let me know whether those arms were supplied as “CHARITY”???? I am sure NO, then are we indebted to Israel to support them to kill innocent Children in Palestine
Read Mahatma Gandhi….. on Israel- Palestine issue!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Hashin,
In principle, this group of so called intellectuals has nothing to do with this resolution. They are just against Islam and want us to adhere what they are saying since they are self proclaimed intellectuals!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
India’s Unambiguous support the Palestine cause for many decades. In 1975 India recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the ’sole legitimate representative of the Palestine people’. In 1980 it granted full diplomatic status to the PLO mission in Delhi.
In the Pre - Independence Period, Gandhi, Nehru and the Indian National Congress had opposed the creation of Israel. And India did not subscribe to the majority plan of United Nations special committee on Palestine recommending partition of Palestine. India voted against the admission of Israel into the United Nation in may 1949.
In 1948 Jawaharlal Nehru called a conference of Asian countries in which 15 Asian countries participated. The conference emphasized the value of unity and friendship between Asian countries, opposition to war, colonialism, and world peace. In this conference India’s great freedom fighter Moulana Azad openly favored helping Palestinian cause and opposed friendship of India with Israel as well as advocated establishment of friendly relations with their countries.
Nehru realized that Maulana Azad echoed the feelings of Indian Muslims; therefore his government opposed Israel for a long period till 1964 and immensely benefited Congress by using Indian Muslims as its vote bank.
Afro-Asian Solidarity on anti Zionism, Colonism influenced India’s foreign Policy in the early post Independence year.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
lets get to the specifics... I have posted the resolution itself here for your benefit... now which specific part of the resolution are people who have been slamming this resolution the past few days taking objection to?
To me... it looks ALL GOOD
Human Rights Council Resolution
A/HRC/10/L.. Combating Defamation of Religions
The Human Rights Council,
Reaffirming the pledge made by all States, under the Charter of the United Nations, to promote and encourage universal respect for and observance of all human rights and fundamental freedoms without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,
Reaffirming also that all human rights are universal, indivisible, interdependent and interrelated,
Recalling the 2005 World Summit Outcome adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 60/1 of 24 October 2005, in which the Assembly emphasized the responsibilities of all States, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations, to respect human rights and fundamental freedoms for all, without distinction of any kind and acknowledged the importance of respect and understanding for religious and cultural diversity throughout the world,
Recognizing the valuable contribution of all religions to modern civilization and the contribution that dialogue among civilizations can make towards improved awareness and understanding of the common values shared by all humankind,
Welcoming the resolve expressed in the United Nations Millennium Declaration adopted by the General Assembly on 8 September 20006 to take measures to eliminate the increasing acts of racism and xenophobia in many societies and to promote greater harmony and tolerance in all societies, and looking forward to its effective implementation at all levels,
Underlining in this regard the importance of the Durban Declaration and Programme of Action adopted by the World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, held in Durban, South Africa, in 2001, welcoming the progress achieved in implementing them, and emphasizing that they constitute a solid foundation for the elimination of all scourges and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance,
Welcoming all international and regional initiatives to promote cross-cultural and interfaith harmony, including the Alliance of Civilizations and the International Dialogue on Interfaith Cooperation and their valuable efforts towards the promotion of a culture of peace and dialogue at all levels,
Welcoming further the reports of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the Council at its fourth, sixth and ninth sessions that highlight the serious nature of the defamation of all religions and the need to complement legal strategies;
Noting with deep concern the instances of intolerance, discrimination and acts of violence against followers of certain faiths, occurring in many parts of the world, in addition to the negative projection of certain religions in the media and the introduction and enforcement of laws and administrative measures that specifically discriminate against and target persons with certain ethnic and religious backgrounds, particularly Muslim minorities following the events of 11 September 2001, and that threaten to impede their full enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms,
Stressing that defamation of religions is a serious affront to human dignity leading to restriction on the freedom of religion of their adherents and incitement to religious hatred and violence,
Noting with concern that defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general, could lead to social disharmony and violations of human rights, and alarmed at the inaction of some States to combat this burgeoning trend and the resulting discriminatory practices against adherents of certain religions and in this context stressing the need to effectively combat defamation of all religions and incitement to religious hatred in general and against Islam and Muslims in particular,
Convinced that respect for cultural, ethnic, religious and linguistic diversity, as well as dialogue among and within civilizations, is essential for global peace and understanding while manifestations of cultural and ethnic prejudice, religious intolerance and xenophobia generate hatred and violence among peoples and nations,
Underlining the important role of education in the promotion of tolerance, which involves acceptance by the public of and its respect for diversity,
Noting various regional and national initiatives to combat religious and racial intolerance against specific groups and communities and emphasizing, in this context, the need to adopt a comprehensive and non-discriminatory approach to ensure respect for all races and religions,
Recalling its resolution 7/19 of 27 March 2008 and UNGA resolution 63/154 of 18 December 2008,
1. Takes note of the report of the High Commissioner on the compilation of existing legislation and jurisprudence concerning defamation of and contempt of religions and the report of the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance presented during the 9th session of the Human Rights Council;
2. Expresses deep concern at the negative stereotyping and defamation of religions and manifestations of intolerance and discrimination in matters of religion or belief, still evident in the world, which have led to intolerance against the followers of these religions;
3. Strongly deplores all acts of psychological and physical violence and assaults, and incitement thereto, against persons on the basis of their religion or belief, and such acts directed against their businesses, properties, cultural centres and places of worship, as well as targeting of holy sites, religious symbols and venerated personalities of all religions;
4. Expresses deep concern at the continued serious instances of deliberate stereotyping of religions, their adherents and sacred persons in the media, as well as programmes and agendas pursued by extremist organizations and groups aimed at creating and perpetuating stereotypes about certain religions, in particular when condoned by Governments;
5. Notes with deep concern the intensification of the overall campaign of defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general, including the ethnic and religious profiling of Muslim minorities in the aftermath of the tragic events of 11 September 2001; )
6. Recognizes that, in the context of the fight against terrorism, defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general have, become aggravating factors that contribute to the denial of fundamental rights and freedoms of members of target groups, as well as to their economic and social exclusion;
7. Expresses deep concern in this respect that Islam is frequently and wrongly associated with human rights violations and terrorism and in this regard regrets the laws or administrative measures specifically designed to control and monitor Muslim minorities, thereby stigmatizing them and legitimizing the discrimination they experience;
8. Deplores the use of the print, audio-visual and electronic media, including the Internet, and any other means to incite acts of violence, xenophobia or related intolerance and discrimination towards any religion, as well as targeting of religious symbols and venerated persons;
9. Emphasizes that, as stipulated in international human rights law including articles 19 and 29 of UDHR and 19 and 20 of ICCPR, everyone has the right to hold opinions without interference, and has the right to freedom of expression, the exercise of which carries with it special duties and responsibilities and may therefore be subject to limitations as are provided for by law and are necessary for respect of the rights or reputations of others, protection of national security or of public order, public health or morals, and general welfare;
10. Reaffirms that General Comment 15 of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, in which the Committee stipulated that the prohibition of the dissemination of all ideas based upon racial superiority or hatred is compatible with freedom of opinion and expression, is equally applicable to the question of incitement to religious hatred;
11. Strongly condemns all manifestations and acts of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance against national or ethnic, religious and linguistic minorities and migrants and the stereotypes often applied to them, including on the basis of religion or belief, and urges all States to apply and, where required, reinforce existing laws when such xenophobic or intolerant acts, manifestations or expressions occur, in order to deny impunity for those who commit such acts;
12. Urges all States to provide, within their respective legal and constitutional systems, adequate protection against acts of hatred, discrimination, intimidation and coercion resulting from defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general, and to take all possible measures to promote tolerance and respect for all religions and beliefs;
13. Underscores the need to combat defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general, by strategizing and harmonizing actions at the local, national, regional and international levels through education and awareness building;
14. Calls upon all States to exert the utmost efforts, in accordance with their national legislation and in conformity with international human rights and humanitarian law, to ensure that religious places, sites, shrines and symbols are fully respected and protected, and to take additional measures in cases where they are vulnerable to desecration or destruction;
15. Calls for strengthening international efforts to foster a global dialogue for the promotion of a culture of tolerance and peace at all levels, based on respect for human rights and diversity of religions and beliefs, and urges States, non-governmental organizations, religious leaders as well as the print and electronic media to support and foster such a dialogue;
16. Appreciates the High Commissioner for Human Rights for holding a seminar on freedom of expression and advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence in October 2008, and requests her to continue to build on this initiative, with a view to concretely contributing to the prevention and elimination of all such forms of incitement and the consequences of negative stereotyping of religions or beliefs, and their adherents, on the human rights of those individuals and their communities;
17. Requests the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance to report on all manifestations of defamation of religions, and in particular on the serious implications of Islamophobia, on the enjoyment of all rights by their followers, to the Council during its 12th Session;
18. Requests the High Commissioner for Human Rights to report to the Council at its 12th Session on the implementation of the present resolution, including on the possible correlation between defamation of religions and the upsurge in incitement, intolerance and hatred in many parts of the world.
I am not sure how many people have actually read the resolution itself... One would imagine that is important before discussing it... The resolution does not condemn the criticism of Islam... it condemns the defamation of Islam and other religions... Criticism and Defamation are different things...
criticism : a critical observation or remark
defamation : the act of harming reputation by libel or slander
Defamation constitutes criticism
But all criticism does not constitute defamation
Let me illustrate with an example...
Me saying that Penny is biased is criticism
But Penny calling all Muslims child-killers (Penny's words were... Which in my book makes you a child killer, just like them.) is defamation... and that's exactly the kind of act that this resolution is trying to stop
If you are terming me as a Terrorist juts because I am an Muslim….. I will love to accept such definition of mine. Really I feel pity for you and your understanding of affairs.
As far as linked websites in your posts are concerned those are sites operated by people who share the same mentality like you, no wonder even of you are a part of the said operative team!
Don’t try to convince on any forum……… better go back to primary school and learn what education means!
You are basically one from the sick mentality who are against Islam and try to influence Muslims to follow the way as prescribed by you…
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Eco-savvy, why shouldn't we (Indians) joint the friends of Israel? It is Israel which helped India by supplying critical military technology to drive out armed militants during kargil war. Other wise it would have turned in to greater security thread for the whole nation.
you have read what you want to read in to the article...
now take of your colored lenses and read it again...
"IMITATE, RESPECT or LOVE the ways and manners of kuffaar"
I don't see whats wrong in being told that there is an Islamic way of life and that we are not allowed to adopt something that is unislamic in to our lives
"Act hard with Muslims and easy with kuffaar"
Now thats a no brainer right... if you don't act the same with all people, that would make you a hypocrite
"MOSTLY keep company with weak and sinful Muslims or kuffaar"
This is just advising one to be in the company of good muslims MOST of the time. Its not saying that we should not be with weak and sinful Muslims or kuffaar... its just says that we should not be in their company MOST of the time...
"So it's a sin for you lot to talk to us lot, horrible kuffaar that we are."
See... here you are at it again... twisting words and seeing things that aren't there... Where does the article say... 'It is sinful to speak to nonmuslims'... it doesn't... plain and simple... Why did you think that you read it there?... I'll tell you... its those voices in your head...
Unfortunatly "armchair terrorists" like advocate give weight to sites like www.jihadwatch, www.thereligionofpeace.com etc.
Criticism doesn't mean hate, I have on american forums tried many times to try to convince posters that its only a sick minority that cause problems.
“Truth” as I said you are a real hypocrite. It seems that you enjoy reading and quoting half only (as you did with my comment before in this thread ONLY)
Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate and kuffar is plural of the said word.
First understand the meaning of the word before commenting.
There is no compulsion for man to accept the TRUTH. But it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when man is not even interested in finding out as to what is the TRUTH!.
["Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)]
Follow the link for definition of the said word within ambit of Islam:
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01052001/Art28.htm
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/309534/kafir
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You are crying like a wolf!
Intellectual more than most!!!!!!! I think you are ideological bankrupt in totality!
First go and read Islam before passing irrelevant comments. Your homework sounds to be materialized with biased attitude!! That’s all I can say about your “so called” intellectualism.
If you are not “satisfied” with Islam and its values…. Better keep your mouth shut and enjoy your agnosticism! There is no one coming in your way! But why you tend to hurt sentiments of Muslims by assaulting Islam? I find no reasons behind this attitude except than that of prejudiced and biased mind!
I am firm on the “conspiracy” stand. It is not matter of agreeing or disagreeing merely rather a well planned strategy is ongoing herein to attack Islam.
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Here's the article from Gulf Times
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=272716&version=1&template_id=47&parent_id=27
Among such awful sins that can be committed, here are a few of the highlights:
"Imitate, respect or love the ways and manners of kuffaar
Act hard with Muslims and easy with kuffaar
Mostly keep company with weak and sinful Muslims or kuffaar"
So it's a sin for you lot to talk to us lot, horrible kuffaar that we are.
Frankly, I'm offended. Imagine saying the reverse, with Muslim substituted for kuffaar. I'm sure you would be insulted and shocked.
Your religion needs and wholy deserves criticism for allowing such discourse to be published in the first place.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
on earth, advocatefk. I do consider myself to be well-educated, more than most. And I generally don't speak a lot about a topic until I feel as if I have done my homework first.
All issues CAN'T be answered; if they could be answered to everyone's satisfaction, then the whole world would be converting. They're not, so clearly the answers make sense for YOU, but not for everyone else. And there's nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean, as you say, that "the problem rests with your understanding and prejudiced thinking."
And just because some people don't agree with Islam or your thoughts or answers to their criticisms about religion, this doesn't mean they are part of a conspiracy against Islam .
Can't people just agree to disagree?
One thing I missed here.
Can you please explain that why are you referring myself as a FRIEND of Hashin????? It is a proof that you are prejudiced.
Yes Hashin is my brother in Islam by the virtue of being a Muslim, but I have no touch with him personally.
I have never termed other trolls who are criticizing Islam here or advocating that Islam can be criticized as your friends or group though it is apparently more or less same situation.
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Who is expecting others to follow our course of action. For Muslims Islam is religion of Allah the only Almighty and we have right to protect it from criticisms.
If you are not going to stop criticizing Islam you would be the one, for sure, who will face the music!
You said that you freely criticize all religions!..... so you are the MOST intellectual in this earth who knows each and every think about every religion……
Quoting you “Personally, I find Islam pretty easy to criticize”……….
What exactly you know about Islam and on what grounds you tend to criticize Islam? All issues can be answered but for sure you are the one who only loves to criticize others rather than introspecting yourself first.
The problem rests with your understanding and prejudiced thinking.
Now I am sure that in QL some conspiracy against Islam is being hatched as it is now evident from series of posts commenting and assaulting our religion.
What type of tolerance you are speaking about? You are criticizing Islam freely and you are residing and earning your livelihood whilst criticizing the state religion. What is exactly your degree of tolerance?
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Penny…… you remarks shows that you are not an atheist rather a staunch Zionist! I am sorry for this remark but you rightly deserve this.
Muslims carried suicide bombings in Palestine, Lebanon , India ect….. what proof do you have? Basically you are either victim of media trial on propaganda based against Islam or relying on west promulgated theories.
Let aside others, for India as I am an Indian and a member of Indian bar.. I have seen many false and fabricated cases of terrorism being imposed on Muslims. Finally when the matter reaches to court of law more than 98% of “accused” are not convicted and acquitted by the courts!!!
So STOP generalizing that all suicide bombings and killing is done by Muslims! Basically you and your west is so biased against Islam that you even can not see the realities. The reason after this biasness and prejudiced is rightly attributed to conversion of unexpected westerns to Islam.
Now look at the reality.
In Europe, according to a European Council report, in the year 2007, 583 failed, foiled and successful terrorist acts took place. Out of that four were attributed to Islamists, 21 to left wing, 1 to right wing, and 532 to separatists. How come we never heard of those terror acts committed by separatists? How come there was little analysis of those acts? How come the Western intellectuals are silent on such terror related incidents?
For more statistics and data follow the link:
http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IC0903-3828
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its no point talking to you penny... you've already made up your mind and I give you an F in logical reasoning and so would anyone else who reads your posts
You are holding Islam responsible for crimes committed by a handful of muslims... Crimes are not committed by Muslims alone, they are committed by people of all religions... but we don't hold their religions responsible for that...
Your views are extremely biased and it shows in the manner that you have dealt with me... I have been critical of your bias... that is true but in return you are calling me a child killer... why?... because I have tried to purge your mind of some of your prejudices against Islam
**Penny... show me these Muslims who think bombing innocent people is the way forward... you make it sound like this is what all Muslims want... that is a silly notion... or is that... GASP GASP.... 'prejudice'?**
GASP GASP, you show me the proof it was NOT Muslims who carried out suicide bombings in Lebanon, Palestine, here in Doha, Israel, Afgasistan, India, Egypt and I will gladly back down.
**Wow... you are justifying why we shouldn't be killing innocent children... uhmmm... uhhh... isn't that stretching things a bit cos... the only ones who are doing that are a handful of terrorists... but mostly imaginary voices in your head...**
** so a Muslim has never killed a child?
**Penny said,"You have the manpower, the money to buy weapons, geographically it is not a problem?"
**Really Penny, here you are beginning to sound like a child from the fourth grade...**
See you ducked a direct question again and tried to change tack.
Why have other Gulf countries not stepped in and declared war on Israel?
And yes you Muslims do kill children and other innocent people just like Israel does.
**are you saying that no Muslim has ever killed a child?
Surprise surprise... Guess who is asking for a stop to the aid... Amnesty International... confused?**
No not confused at all. Amnesty International help loads of people, I think at one time they asked for Robert Mughabe to be treated with respect.
****Wow... you are justifying why we shouldn't be killing innocent children... uhmmm... uhhh... isn't that stretching things a bit cos... the only ones who are doing that are a handful of terrorists... but mostly imaginary voices in your head...**
I think you will find that although Palestine has not killed as many children as Israel they have still killed children, under the banner of religion. Which in my book makes you a child killer, just like them. They kill your children, you kill Israeli children. Makes you both child killers and murderers in my eyes.
As Islam is peaceful and tolerant, be the better person and give it up for your childrens sake. Are you prepared to have more children killed because of a strip of land.
The Jews are not going to back down. So why don't you and therefore be seen as the peaceful tolerant race you say you are?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Penny said, "I merely pointed out that a lot of Muslim people think that suicide bombings are the way forward. Or bombing innocent people that have NOTHING at all to do with the conflict between Israel and Palastine."
Penny... show me these Muslims who think bombing innocent people is the way forward... you make it sound like this is what all Muslims want... that is a silly notion... or is that... GASP GASP.... 'prejudice'?
Penny said,"Can you be so sure that the people killed were not on your side? Who's to say some of the people killed had never heard of what is going on? I am talking here of innocent children."
Wow... you are justifying why we shouldn't be killing innocent children... uhmmm... uhhh... isn't that stretching things a bit cos... the only ones who are doing that are a handful of terrorists... but mostly imaginary voices in your head...
Penny said, "Taking religion out of the equation for one moment. Why have all your fellow Muslims from around the Middle East not officially declared war on Israel?"
You are advocating war...??
Penny said,"You have the manpower, the money to buy weapons, geographically it is not a problem?"
Really Penny, here you are beginning to sound like a child from the fourth grade...
Penny said,"It is understood that a few people from this are hate American and British influence ( and I don't blame you for that) and yet none of you seem willing to sort the problem out for your fellow Muslims."
ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Penny said,"Surely though your own people could help a little more. "
Although I agree that maybe Arabs can do more to support the Palestinian cause, I would like to draw your attention towards this help from West that you are talking about
Surprise surprise... Guess who is asking for a stop to the aid... Amnesty International... confused?
US Aid to Israel is around 91bn$... US Aid to Palestine is
I agree both have mucked up this terrible situation.
As I asked before, was it; religion, pride or stubborn behaviour?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Freedom to criticise relgion?
Or the freedoom to criticise both sides?
Nobody is insulting Islam or any other religion.
What we are doing is trying to find out why SOME Chritians rather like SOME Muslims think it ok to insult and crticise. However,some of us are not allowed to ask questions or the reason they act the way they do.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Palestine is so fed up with their people being killed etc why just not say, enough is enough, we give you that very small peice of land. Will you now leave us alone?
Why dont Germans say sorry brothers we kicked you out, we welcome you back, Leave that small piece of land RIP
Palestine
Why cant British say enough is enuf and offer them small piece of Land with complimentary hugs
Read:
Balfour himself told a Jewish gathering on February 7,1918:
My personal hope is that the Jews will make good in Palestine and eventually found a Jewish state. It is up to them now; we have given them their great opportunity. "
Thanks for your post but it does not answer the question does it, all it does is show another persons perspective.
Ghandi is seen as this all giving all seeing, all hearing bloke and yet I have read stuff about Ghandi that would make any persons toes curl.
Like most of these figure heads they appeal to some, they say what others want to hear or the people simply do not understand what has been said but still follow. It is herd mentality.
Yes, Israel is wrong, that is for sure. Yet so are SOME Muslims.
They both act very similar and yet both take the upper hand.
Yet both driven by or should I say hide behind history or religion.
Both very stubborn and not willing to give in. Over a peice of land that nobody has the right too really.
I am not religious but as far as I can see, God gave us the world and areas and asked us to live in harmony. If Palestine is so fed up with their people being killed etc why just not say, enough is enough, we give you that very small peice of land. Will you now leave us alone?
Or Israel could say, we are now sorry for all we have done we will now share our promised land with you and stop it now.
But for some reason neither are prepared to do so.
Is that religion, pride or just stubborn behaviour.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
to prove our loyality just because now India is thier friend. Thank God Mahatma Gandhi is not among us else he would have started long March to Palestine, would he approve of Zionism?
Read :
written 70 years ago, in 1938. Commenting on the campaign by imperial powers and Zionist groups to found Israel on Palestinian land, Gandhi wrote in his paper Harijan on Nov 26, 1938: “My sympathies are all with the Jews. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close.
“But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me.
It's fine if you don't want to criticize religions, but you cannot expect everyone else to adhere to that same practice simply because you do.
Just because you might open doors for women doesn't mean that someone will necessarily return the favor. But if you find that practice to be respectful and honorable, then you do it anyway, even when no one does it back to you.
I'm not going to STOP criticizing Islam because you don't criticize my belief system. I criticize things because they make no sense to me, or because I think they can be better than what they currently are, not because I am engaging in some sort of strange negative "quid pro quo" battle.
I freely criticize ALL religions, though apparently you feel as if Islam gets more than its fair share. Maybe it does...maybe it's like when someone tells you not to do something, it makes you want to do it even more, just to show that you can...kind of like those Danish cartoons.
Personally, I find Islam pretty easy to criticize, but I could say the same about Catholicism, Scientology, the Church of Latter Day Saints, Wicca,...many other religious belief systems.
If you think we're a bunch of rude westerners because we criticize religions, then so be it. I'd rather have someone who really doesn't know me think that I am rude than have to curb my natural tendency to question authority and ask hard questions when things don't seem logical or fair to me.
As I told your friend Advocat feel free to copy and paste anything I have said that SHOWS I have insulted Islam.
Please feel free to do that. Your friend Advocat could not and I am sure you cannot either. Simply because I have not.
I can show you however, lots of references where your friend Advocat has insulted people.
We cannot say anthing about Muslims as that means we insult Islam. Yet it is ok for you and Advoct to insult the West and therefore I think Christianity and we have to shut up and take it.
Fair enough that you criticise, I too am critical of the West but as I said to your friend Advocat, if you can't take don't give.
I also see rather like your friend Advocat you never answer the question rather you change tack.
Sad is it not. Learn to debate and then come back!
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I would not want you to think that I think ALL Muslims go around killing innocent people at all. Just as much as I know all Catholics were not for the IRA.
I merely pointed out that a lot of Muslim people think that suicide bombings are the way forward. Or bombing innocent people that have NOTHING at all to do with the conflict between Israel and Palastine.
Can you be so sure that the people killed were not on your side? Who's to say some of the people killed had never heard of what is going on? I am talking here of innocent children.
Taking religion out of the equation for one moment. Why have all your fellow Muslims from around the Middle East not officially declared war on Israel?
You have the manpower, the money to buy weapons, geographically it is not a problem?
It is understood that a few people from this are hate American and British influence ( and I don't blame you for that) and yet none of you seem willing to sort the problem out for your fellow Muslims.
I know people send Aid but then again so does the West.
I do not advocate for one moment that the West can be seen as 'friend' to you.
Surely though your own people could help a little more.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
care to give references?... where are these articles and what do they say exactly because I am sure you are taking them out of context...
And even if you manage to dig out such articles, for each one you dig out... I can give you another ten of instances of Islam being mocked on QL and even on this thread and even by our friend penny, who thinks she's all tolerance and righteous but has shown her inner self to all those who read her comments about exactly what she thinks of muslims...
I encourage everyone to read this thread and observe how many people have implicitly offended Islam... and yet I don't see Muslims offending Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists.... Thats the courtesy that Muslims offers to all religions, we respect your beliefs and it is this same courtesy that we expect of you... respect ours
If you are among those who want to offend your own religion, that is your problem not ours... do not expect a Muslim to appreciate and applaud when her or his religion is being ridiculed...
you make it sound that all muslims are egging on their fellow men to go blow themselves up... that is a generalization... It is misinterpretation of religion which is condemned by Muslim scholars that is the cause of a lot of the violence. By implying that Islam promotes violence, you are letting a minority skew your perception of muslims in general.
The Jews have not been going to Germany... true... but why fly all the way to Germany to reenact history? when they can reenact it from where they are already... fence civilians in to prison camps... control the borders... build walls... kill children... starve families... bomb residences... sound familiar?
Yes taking a life in Islam is like slaughtering the whole humanity.
If anyone slays a person
- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -
it would be as if he slew all people.
And if anyone saves a life,
it would be as if he saved the life of all people.
Qur'an 5:32
«And Fight those who have not faith in God, nor in the Hereafter, and (who) forbid not what God and His Prophet have forbidden and (who ) are not committed to the religion of truth, of those who have been brought the Book, until they pay tribute by hand, and they are the low.» (9:29)
This Quranic verse concerns the People of the Book, meaning those non-Muslims followers of one of the holy books, namely the Jews, Christians and perhaps the Zoroastrians.
The verse is one of war with the People of the Book, but at the same time, it does not tell us to fight them; it tells us to fight only those of them who have no faith in God, in the Hereafter, and who do not abide by the rule of God, allowing what He has forbidden - and who are not religious according to the religion of truth. It is these People of the Book whom we are to fight until they pay the Jezyah (tribute). That is, when they are ready to pay the Jezyah and are humble before us, we are to fight them no more.
This verse gives rise to many questions which remain to be answered through a study of those Quranic verses pertaining to jihad, which we will set apart and review.
The first question that arises is what exactly is meant by the words,
«Fight those who have not faith in God»
Do they mean that we are to drop everything and start fighting or is it meant that we must fight them the moment they go beyond their territory and violate ours? In the terms of the learned of Islam, the ulema, this is an unconditional verse which, if there are similar verses that are conditional, must be interpreted as being conditional.
Conditional Verses and Unconditional Verses
This term is a very important one, and I wish to explain it to you, for otherwise it will be difficult for you to grasp the full meaning of the verse under discussion. Any command (even a human command) can be given in one place with no conditions, and then again in another situation with a condition attached. In such a case, we immediately realize that whoever issued that command, introduced that law, meant the same thing in both instances. Now, having realized this, what are we to do? Are we to adhere to the unconditional command and assume that the conditional was given for that special instance? Or should we interpret the unconditional as the conditional which means adhering to the conditional?
Let me cite a simple example. On two separate occasions, for instance, we are given a command by someone having the authority to do so and whose commands we respect. On one occasion, we are told that we must respect such and such person, which is an unconditional command. In another he commands us to do the same thing, saying that we must respect that person if he does such and such a thing, like taking part in our meeting. The second time the command contains an “if.” The command is now conditional. The person giving the command did not simply state that such and such a person is to be respected. The first command had no condition; we were simply told to respect him, and assuming we had ears and heard this command. it would have meant to us that we were to respect that person whether he came to the meeting or whether he was too lazy to bother. But when we hear the other command, we understand that we are to respect the person provided he comes to the meeting, and, if he refrains from doing so, we are not to respect him.
The ulema say that the rule requires us to interpret the unconditional as the conditional, meaning that we must assume the aim of the unconditional to be exactly that of the conditional.
Now, among the unconditional and conditional verses of the Quran pertaining to jihad, is one which we have seen:
«Fight ye those who have not faith in God, nor in the hereafter and (who) forbid not what God and His Prophet have forbidden»
In another verse, we are told:
«Fight in the way of God those who fight you» (2:190).
What are the meanings of these verses? Do they mean that we must fight these people regardless of whether they are about to attack us? Is the command unconditional so that we must fight them whether they intend or not to attack us, whether they are guilty of aggression or not?
There are two possible views. One is that the command remains unconditional. “The People of the Book are not Muslims, so we are allowed to fight them. We are allowed to fight the non-Muslims until we subdue them. If they are not Muslims and not People of the Book, we should fight them until either they become Muslims or we kill them. If they are People of the Book, we should fight them until they become Muslims or, if they do not become Muslims, until they pay us tribute - such is the opinion of those who say that the verse remains unconditional.
The other view, however; holds that the unconditional must be interpreted as the conditional. Someone with this view would say that the other Quranic verses bring us the conditions for the legitimacy of jihad, we realize that the true meaning of the verses is not unconditional at all. What, then, are the conditions for the legality of jihad? Amongst them, for example, are the following: that the other side intends to attack us; or that it creates a barrier against the call of Islam, meaning that it negates the freedom of that call and becomes an obstacle to its diffusion, while Islam says that those barriers are to be removed. Or, likewise, in the case of a people subject to the oppression and tyranny of a group from amongst themselves, Islam says that we must fight those tyrants so as to deliver the oppressed from the claws of tyranny. This has been expressed in the Quran thus:
«Why is it that you do not fight in the way of God and the way of the deprived (mustazafin)?» (4:75)
Follow this link for better understanding:
http://www.islamnewsroom.com/content/view/76/52/
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I too and my partner are here earning our keep. I just think that in an open forum like this you have to be very careful as I suspect (not that I know) somebody from somewhere could be watching, I may be paranoid.
Therefore I would want to be seen to insult a religion. Mainly as I do not have the right to and the other reason is, I would hate for me or my partner to be kicked out of Qatar because we offended a local/Muslim.
Getting back to you ADVOCAT.
Islam is a peaceful religiong is it not?
Or so you have said in your copy and pastes.
Yet I am a little confused as to why blowing yourself up and killing other innocent people, including dare I say it some of your fellow Muslims actually solves any problem. I thought suicide and murder was against Islam.
I am not saying that you do not have the right to defend yourself and ask for retribution for crimes, however I really don't think the way to solve crime with a crime is right.
In the world today there are many countries suffering just like Palestine is. And I am sure they handle that situation in their own way. And yet, if I am not mistaken, the act of suicide bombings seems to be quite common amongst Muslims. Seems ironic really when you are such peaceful and tolerant people.
A bit like IRA, did it acheive anything? Not really. All it did was divide communities. The hatred towards Catholics at that time was awful, some people were forced to lie about their religion.
And if everything is fair in love and war and the Israelis think you are in the wrong, surely if that is your stance, their acts are fair after all; to quote you, all is fair in love and war.
The Jews were treated terribly by the Nazis in the wars; yet we don't hear them sending young men and women over to Germany to kill a generation of youg people who had nothing to do with what happened and really have very little knowledge of the history.
You see all history gets twisted. A bit like Chinese whispers.
I am not FOR Israel at all. I think they have behaved appalingly. However, I was equally appalled at 9/11, the London Bombings and of course every time I hear about young men and women, including some retarded people (who could not have made that decision for themselves) blowing themselves up in the name of religion.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
One problem with "criticizing" religion is that most of us are not experts in the matter or don't have enough knowledge to make true judgements.
It is all too easy to "google" something and cut and paste "our thoughts".
So its better to avoid it all together..
Good with playing with words… and catastrophe is that your user name has a prefix……” truth”…… my god!!!!!
If you are quoting the QUOTE of the day then quote full sentence not just a part.. This would lead to yellow journalism.
The full quote should be read as follows::
“Yes those contents were rightly copy & pasted from website….. I am not claiming myself as author thereof!
Perchance, I missed providing link to the website… though if you see other copy paste material posted from my end you will definitely find link following the same. Have a glance at earlier posted thread! It might help you!”
What should i term this act…… an act of a hypocrite or an act emerging out of biasness?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
“But I have yet to hear about a Atheist Suicide Bomber have you?”
This shows your prejudiced mind and level of understanding penny.
Suicide bombers!!! Do you really know how much life is importance for any living entity! Having said this, it is not an easy task to give up one’s life in suicide bombing?
If the above quoted sentence from your thread is regarding Palestinian freedom fighters….. let me tell you one think perfectly straight…
What you expect from a teenager whose mother and sisters were raped in front of him and then murdered brutally….. what you expect that this guy should lay rose petals on Zionist Israeli army. Of course he would fight…… and every thing is fair is love and war!
Imperialism and neo colonialism which are being preached by west would lead to this type of serious repercussions.
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"I am not claiming myself as author thereof!
Perchance, I missed providing link to the website…"
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Yes those contents were rightly copy & pasted from website….. I am not claiming myself as author thereof!
Perchance, I missed providing link to the website… though if you see other copy paste material posted from my end you will definitely find link following the same. Have a glance at earlier posted thread! It might help you!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Religion of course comes first………any doubts? Country, for sure matters a lot but religion is some what indispensable for me.
I am a Muslim and a proud Indian.. It this ok to you!
Stop preaching???????? What I am preaching?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
You really advanced the discourse a lot there. Thanks
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Sewage……
So swim in the said sewage and get yourself unpolluted.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Well Penny, I don't know about you, but I'm not here claiming state benefits or political asylum. What I do has a real benefit (in its own small way) for the society around me. I do not pretend - at all - that I am in some way indispensable, but I am not here on the pretext of begging for money - I am earning my keep.
The reason I was hired was that there was a need in the country for what I have to offer - as is the case with us all. People love to shout "go back to your own country if you dont like it here" but if I did, they'd have to find someone else from abroad to replace me. It wouldnt be that hard, of course, noone is unique - but you get the drift of what I mean - don't be on eggshells about biting the hand that feeds - since the hand is not feeding you because it is feeling generous.
And even if I was a freeloader, it would still be fine to have an open discussion about the nature of religion - this is, after all the original theme of the thread. (We're all thinking it, anyway, so why not just get it out in the open?)
As I've said before, everyone is on these awful eggshells, terrified of 'saying something offensive' about Islam. What I think we have established is that religions are not human and thus cannot possible be the beneficiaries of human rights (as suggested in the resolution). They don't feel pain when we talk about them.
And enough of everyone being hyper-sensitive about being offended, when it's all blatantly a one-way street. I've read quite a few very offensive articles (in the sense that I've been actually offended to see them in print) in the Islam section of the Gulf Times, no less, right out there in the public domain, which tell Muslims not to get close to kaffir non-Muslims, not to be their friends nor to imitate them. If you complain about threads like that on QL, you are told "this is none of your business, if you don;t like it, don't read it".
Well what's good for the goose is good for the gander - if someone doesn't like my critical discussion of Islam, then they can just not read it. And it really is as simple as that.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
lol at the longest one. I have enjoyed it.
Sorry if I appeared to get wound up. I just wanted to make sure to anybody reading from abroad or other Muslim people on QL that I did not insult any religion. I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me.
I like a good honest debate and yet rather cruelly I must say, I also enjoy seeing somebody like HIM dig their own grave.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Ah well, Penny, it has been a long old journey. I myself only joined the path on page 4 but have loved every minute of it. LOL
Really does take all sorts. You seem to have taken it all rather personally though and gotten quite wound up! Especially at accusations of 'insulting' religion. So what if you - or anybody else - did? The WONDERFUL, liberating truth is that you can just IGNORE/DELETE/FORGET what is said - they are JUST WORDS.
Now. Is this thread finally over, or is it going to make page 7? Must be the longest thread in the history of QL!
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
he has copied and pasted nearly all the way through even about Islam, the religion he claims to love and know so well. As I have said on numerous occasions he has not an individual thought in his head.
He avoids answering any questions put to him etc.
He has been quick to anger and insults. Anybody that does not agree with him is an idiot and has mental health issues!
Mind you, he has made me laugh so much it was worth it.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Oh dear, Advocate, you've just been copying and pasting from the internet, and not citing your sources!
Your little diatribe towards Atheists is taken and lifted straight off http://www.islaminfo.com/detail.php?ID=28
I did think the police analogy was a bit uncharacteristically articulate.
At the risk (and yes, it is a risk) of creating yet another labyrinthine diversion from this already pointless discussion, what you just posted is utterly false. It presupposes Atheism does not provide hope; that Islam is necessarily correct; and that Islam is correct because it says it is.
Hardly the reasoning of a sound mind. Q.E.D.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Oh dear, Advocate, you've just been copying and pasting from the internet, and not citing your sources!
Your little diatribe towards Atheists is taken and lifted straight off http://www.islaminfo.com/detail.php?ID=28
I did think the police analogy was a bit uncharacteristically articulate.
At the risk (and yes, it is a risk) of creating yet another labyrinthine diversion from this already pointless discussion, what you just posted is utterly false. It presupposes Atheism does not provide hope; that Islam is necessarily correct; and that Islam is correct because it says it is.
Hardly the reasoning of a sound mind. Q.E.D.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Latest news out of the UN is that the resolution has not been passed and has been watered down to a far more vague "negative stereotyping of religions". So looks like freedom of speech has still won the day.
According to that resolution, I believe that Advocate HIMSELF is now illegal under this UN Resolution. So, Advocate. You are hereby requested to hand yourself into the nearest police station.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Read all you have said about Allah and the messages from him and Mohammed (PBUH).
Can I ask you, when are you going to start behaving the way you are supposed to then?
As for your diatride against Athiests. We may be all of that in your eyes. But I have yet to hear about a Athiest Suicide Bomber have you?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
advocate, stop your preaching. You didn't under stand my question. Country or religion which one comes is first?
"Davidak….. Mind your language….
I know what I am doing and needs no certification from person like you!
Better keep you advises back to your shoes.. I know how much intellectual you are?Basically you are a troll! If you don’t find any interest herein….. who the hell is inviting you!
Your words are like trash for me! It this clear to you"
I'm not giving you a certificate. DOn't worry about that.
What language? English?
Advises in shoes? Does not make sense.
I am a troll? You don't even know what trolling is.
Intrest herin invited? I go where i wish, and speak out against those who should be spoken to.
My wards are like trash to you? Your words are like sewage to me.
Watch yourself.
Thank you very much!!! Adey
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I'm out of this tread now - in reading mode only.
Peace
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Where does that get us?
"The time came when Odin had to make children. He made other gods, and they helped him create the world! Having killed the ice giant they used his brain to become clouds. His skull became the sky and his bones, mountains. They soon had every part of the frost giants body in use for the creation of the the world. "
By extension of the topic of this thread no one is allowed to critise this religious dogma.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
has a one in a thousand chance of working. ie you arrive in the after life only to find Isis waiting for you. He is very disappointed and says - 'But I sent you signs from the earliest times but you rejected me and followed the false god of the Jews"
Which of the thousands of gods in human history do you wager on? Also, if you pay lip service to a god just to get into an afterlife do you not think that this all knowing god cannot tell?
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
The key in talking to Atheists is to bring them back always to the fundamental questions. If they ask questions to raise objections to the details of Islam you can spend all day arguing and end up nowhere. What you need to do is to remind them of the hopeless position of an Atheist.
The Atheist position is indeed hopeless. The believer has hope. If there is a God and there is life after death then the believer wins. If there is no God or no life after death the believer loses nothing. On the other hand, the Atheist loses badly if he wakes up to discover himself in the afterlife. In sum, if there is no afterlife both the believer and the Atheist are safe. But if there is an afterlife then the Atheist loses. The only one who can possibly lose is the Atheist.
Now the Atheist can argue that if there is no afterlife then the believer has wasted his life in false hope. We can reply that Islam gives our lives order, meaning, balance, purpose, and direction. We have hope founded on clear facts and dependable revelation from Allah.
On the other hand, it is the Atheist who is wasting his/her life. His/her life has no purpose but temporary enjoyment. But such enjoyment is always tempered by nagging doubts about whether or not life is heading in the right direction. It is the believer who lives in quiet confidence that God's promise is true.
The key, then, is to remind the Atheist that he/she is the only one who stands to lose. Sure he/she may have questions, doubts, and objections to some of the details of Islam. But rather than waste a lot of time trying to answer for the details, bring the discussion back to the fundamentals. Is there a God? Is there an afterlife? Is the Atheist secure?
Even if the Atheist has doubts it is still reasonable for him to embrace Islam. To illustrate this fact, consider this situation. You are told that there is a speed-trap set by police to catch speeders on a certain road. Even if you doubt the information you must still act as though you believe it. You will slow down just to be on the safe side. You feel no need to start arguing that the police would never do a thing like that, or that you drove there before and never got caught speeding. In a similar sense the Atheist can simply submit in Islam although he still has doubts. Rather than argue about what he doubts he should first get on the safe side and then investigate further.
The reasonable thing, then, is for the Atheist to accept Islam right away. If he will not take this reasonable position, then why should you argue with an unreasonable person? Just remind him that even if Islam is wrong you are still safe. But if Islam is right he is in deep trouble. To use an expression, the Atheist may well be up the creek without a paddle.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Ya Allah ! Our creator,
we are all just pieces of clay.
Please help us with our steps in life;
let us not lose our way.
All praises are for you Allah;
I know that you are near.
I know that you have read my heart and my words I know you hear
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Yes I am a Muslim and an Indian!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Follow the link:
http://www.defending-islam.com/page107.html
May Almighty Allah bless you all with His blessings so that you can understand what truth means?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
advocate, Your signature of boycott Israel only to Qatar or India ( you say you are from India) too. I am just curious.
Some trolls here are just hell bent on criticizing Islam.
LISTEN…… Islam is universal religion of Allah, the Only Almighty and hence, does not stand for any criticism at all! You are free to criticize Muslims but not to religion. Is this clear to you all now? You all are here basically to assailant Islamic beliefs. Anyways you shall be responsible fort your deeds on judgment day.
Islam is the religion taught in its fundamentals by all the prophets. It is the religion which the first human being was instructed to follow. It is the religion of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) throughout the existence of human beings.
From the world view of Islam, most of the world's major religions originated in the pure religion of Islam itself and only through the teachings being lost, forgotten or willfully corrupted have these religions changed. Islam has at its core, a simple message which applies to all human beings before Muhammad (pbuh) and all after his time:
"...And they say: "None shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if you are truthful." Nay whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good, he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear nor shall they grieve."
Qur'an 2:111-112
The word used in this verse for 'submits' is 'aslama'. It is from this verb that the word 'Islam' comes as 'the submitting'. Islam is a word that doesn't have any connection with an area or a particular character from history, it is the one and only truly universal religion and fittingly it has a truly universal name:
The word "Islam" means voluntary submission to the will of Allah
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Penny….. quoting you “well I think he was a troll. Wish I knew about this before, as I would not have engaged with him. Now I know and thank you”
So until now you was arguing with a troll? I may sound like a troll for the people who are prejudiced.
I do not know whether you fall in same category. By the way……… Is Davidak belongs to any certification organization which provides salutations?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Davidak….. Mind your language….
I know what I am doing and needs no certification from person like you!
Better keep you advises back to your shoes.. I know how much intellectual you are?Basically you are a troll! If you don’t find any interest herein….. who the hell is inviting you!
Your words are like trash for me! It this clear to you
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
All of the messengers and prophets taught submission to God, the One and Only True God (Allah) who is my God and your God whether choose to accept or reject Him. The ultimate message they brought has remained the same "worship none but God." God gave his prophets and messengers different rituals than what he gave to Muhammad's(saw)followers.The final message of Islam was completed in Muhammad's (saw) lifetime.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Provoke? Sorry you feel that way. If asking questions and raising counter arguments is seen as provocation then I suggest we close down QL and all go home.
As for 'beating people', it was you that suggested that a punch was in order for insulting a mother so one would assume something of the same magnitude would be appropriate for something you revere more than your mother.
The practice of Islam is indeed 'newer' than the Abrahamic faith from which it is derived as I don't believe that the shaddad, the practice of emulating Mohammad's life or the five daily prayers has ever been a part of monotheistic faith prior to the 7th century.
Anyway I didn't mean to provoke, just engage in honest debate; something which is a rare commodity in this particular thread.
Peace.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Jackfrost said " Kids hear things from their parents talking. they must hate jews ...
It is always the lost that need my guidance "
We don't need our parents to tell us about the atrocities that are committed by the Zionist Jews. Anyone can Google , find it on Youtube, Liveleak, and many other numerous websites. No thanks...we're completely happy with Islamic guidance.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
It began with Prophet Adam (pbuh). All of the prophets and messengers that were sent to mankind taught the same message and that was to worship none but Allah (god).
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
Had I wanted to comment on any other points you had, I would have. Frankly...I just don't have the time or the energy to waste nor am I going to allow you or anyone else provoke me into long debates and possible arguments. I said what I had to say about why we don't take to insults and slander. I'm not saying that we should go and beat people up. I was just trying to illustrate to you the love we have for our God, Prophet (saw) and our religion.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
It is always the lost that need my guidance
Thank you for your reply.
But my mother may be powerless and may need fighting for, she does not have the backing and protection of the 'Supreme' being. If what you say is true then the prophet and Allah have no need of protection and don't need a bunch of puny humans to inflict violence on their behalf.
Do you have any comments as the the other points I submitted?
Peace
ps "your Mama" is only fighting talk to children, something one hears in the play ground. Once we mature then it fails to have an effect. I respectfully suggest that as Islam is the youngest of the Monotheistic faiths it still needs to go through this maturation process.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Prophets and Messengers were REAL PEOPLE...just like your mother is a real person. And because you don't subscribe to any religion....you will never understand what I just explained above. I understand that you don't know what is insulting and what is not to us. But if you want to criticize constructively, then you must do your homework before you bring forth your criticism. Study true Islamic sources and not sources from anti-Islam sources. Check out this funny 10 min video of a former Atheist from Australia:
Penney...
I didn't expect you to understand about loving our Prophets above our mothers.
You said: "If I were criticised for 1400 years, I would either give up or change my stance."
Alhamdulillah, We Muslims don't give up so easily. Our Prophet (saw) said,"...if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to leave this matter(conveying the message of Islam), I'd not leave it till Allah supports it or I perish for it."
Adey:
Maybe you wouldn't rush to punch someone. But most people I know would fight over insulting one's mother. "Your mama...." are fighting words where I come from.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
"references to the "defamation of religion" have been dropped from a draft declaration being prepared for next month's world racism meeting, United Nations officials said Tuesday.
The draft declaration now speaks only of concern about the "negative stereotyping of religions" "
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h-NABlEjaGSsDBh_qdpdNmX7V6VwD9701NMO1
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
No way would i compare a mother to a prophet. Because i know my mother is real. Insults are different when it comes to what someone beleives in and what someone doesn't, to those, like me, who don't beleive in religion, it's harder for us to figure out what's insulting cause we don't beleive in what you are insulted by.
I come from a very unreligious land, and have grown up with and around Atheists. My views are very different.
Only one problem :
The 1,639-word resolution, drafted by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, cites only one religion by name in need of protection from offensive speech -- Islam.
In fact, the importance of protecting Islam and Muslims from defamatory speech is cited five times in the resolution, while Christianity, Judaism and all other faiths aren't mentioned.
And no I would not rush to physical violence over what someone said. If this was a universal reaction then the world would be in turmoil, in fact we would have all killed ourselves centuries ago.
And only muslims have been 'taught' and believe that there is no refutation - the 80% of the worlds population do refute it - otherwise they would have converted. So you see you are in a minority position trying to tell the majority what they can say.
This proposed UN resolution will be very divisive and be counter productive for muslims, hence the DCFM has urged its rejection of the resolution.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I understand what you are saying.
However, there is a massive difference between a mother and a Prophet (pbh)
**Islam is the most criticised religion in the world!
Muslims have been defending Islam for the last 1400 years**
If I were criticised for 1400 years, I would either give up or change my stance.
**In Islam, we are taught to love Allah and our Prophet(saw) more than anyone else to include ourselves. For this reason, Muhammad (saw) is precious to us.
Just as how Jesus(pbuh) is precious to Christians, Moses(pbuh)is to Jews.
In Christanity they are taught the same.
Islam is the most criticised religion in the world!
Muslims have been defending Islam for the last 1400 years!
Every aspect of the religion has been criticized, and each one of those has been refuted by Muslim scholars, the criticizing continues because people do not want to accept that there is no refutation.
In Islam, we are taught to love Allah and our Prophet(saw) more than anyone else to include ourselves. For this reason, Muhammad (saw) is precious to us.
Just as how Jesus(pbuh) is precious to Christians, Moses(pbuh)is to Jews.
Do you love your mother? Most of you would say "yes." If we insulted your mom, I'm pretty sure you'd punch us. Well, we Muslims love our Prophet(saw) and Islam immensely. We love our God and Muhammad (saw) more than our own mothers. So this is why we don't tolerate insults and slander against our religion.
“Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees.” -Dolores Ibárruri
It just amazes me how people just come up with these names.
Who starts these names and how do they digress into the community for people to use and know the meaning of them all. Life is so full of little mysteries.
Small minds..small names.. very child like at times.. but then again we are in the middle east..say what
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
No problem, i didn't think so either, but then the trend in his comments is the same, just in one ear out the other, then he acuses us of offending this and that, and then acuses the website of offending this and that etc.. The list goes on.
" truthfulvisitor said in fact, advocate ...
in fact, quite frankly, the fact that you, as a representative of your religion, are so aggressive, unreasonable and stupid, is all the proof I need to know that your religion clearly DOES need some kind or rational criticism to bring it back to planet Earth."
I took the shahada some days ago, thanks to my criticism and the help of other fellow muslims i can say that the public were really surprised with my knowledge about Islam and i was congratulated for showing that i was truelly interested in the religion, adopted the name of Ayman. One of my 1st decisions as a muslim was to show that Islam is in true a religion that is peacefull and tolerant and will fight all the "sickos" that say they are true muslims but don't mind replacing Allah as the supreme judge. He doesn't need ppl to kill in His name because he's powerfull enough to do iot himself, anyone that says that he/she's killing in his name is a Liar and a Satanist.
=========================
Can someone help me changing my present name?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
well I think he was a troll. Wish I knew about this before, as I would not have engaged with him. Now I know and thank you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
A Troll is someone who goes on the internet purely to piss people off harass people etc. There are different kinds, but basically someone who takes joy in argueing for the sake of argueing, and just is an allround trouble maker on the internet.
I don't know what a troll is, even though I have seen the expression used on QL.
All I know about Advocat, he had no idea what he was talking about, could not debate, used 'big words' he did not understand, insulted people and basically came across to me as an idiot.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Please explain what the flock a Trol is in your words Davidak89....
It is always the lost that need my guidance
Penny Advocate is just a Troll. He refuses to beleive anyhting anyones ays and comes back with the same garbage everytime, throwing acusations left right and center. Troll.
I too am an athiest but I respect that other people believe. I don't try and talk them out of it either, it is their choice.
As soon as people stop killing people under the banner of religion or hiding behing their religion as a reason for such killings. I will respect them even more.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
If people believed in themselves more and not what other people say they should believe, the world would be a better, safer, and lovable place, instead you have some people who call themselves religion leader that put ideas into people’s minds, turning one group of people with a religion order to fight and kill the other religion order.
Now you can scream and yell all day, but I do not see the point in killing a person because of his religion, Muslim or Jew… Christian or Buddist, I feel it is the weak that need to follow others, I am a total non believer of religion.. and I love the world so much for the love I see in my own eyes. ,
So before you all complain to Big Brother remember the title of the thread is freedom to criticise religion... don’t enter if you cannot take criticism good or bad.
Oh I know lol
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Penny, There is only one answer for both of your questions and that is : Islam is Truth from the God Himself and hence cann't stand criticism by humans.
This is going by the belief of muslims. They could only compromise on this if they had even a little bit of doubt in it. But you know...
I think what you have posted is very true. I applaud you.
I also agree that any religion that does not welcome crticism is living in the dark ages.
I put at the beginning we are ALL open to criticism. This is how we learn and move on. I asked Advocat on page 2 of this post to answer two simple questions.
(1) Why can Islam not be criticised?
(2) What makes it so infallible?
I did not ask him those questions in order to be inflamatory. I asked so that I would perhaps gain some insight into the religion.
He has yet to answer those questions and this is page 6.
It appears he has not got a thought in his head that is his own.
I will also agree with some people on this thread who asked him, why Muslims feel free to insult our religions and countries and yet we cannot said a dicky bird about theirs?
He missed salient points in this debate and ended up not only digging himself into a very big hole he actually, as I have said many times a massive diservice to the very religion he claims to love so much.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
**I am pleased to note that now ultimately you are in agreement with my stance on Israel!. ***
I don't like the use of your word NOW. I actually posted that I was supportive of your stance on Israel on page 2 of this post. You chose to ignore it as you have done on most of my posts.
**So you are agreeing that creation of Israel was itself fraud by default! If this is the case, really i should applaud you and your understanding. **
I am not agrreeing or disagreeing with you on the creation of Israel. My very limited knowledge of the history of that area is this; at one time 4 different races lived together in harmony until the Crusades and that is when it all went wrong.
** From very first post of mine in this thread i insisted that clear line should be drawn between freedom of speech and expression and licence to insult. I am of the view that the said freedom right should not be used as a weapon to insult anyone! **
I think if you look back and re read all posts, a lot of people posted that before you. In fact to be honest. I will have to check but I am fairly sure you have not said that until now.
** Religion is something very sensitive for its followers...... so why we can not be tolerant enough not and avoid criticising religion. **
As I and many others have posted before NOBODY has insulted any religion on this post!
** Show me any post in this thread..... wherein i assaulted any religion.....Is this not tolerance from my end that a so called liberal directly assaulted at my religion and my religious values, even though i tolerated his remarks...... is this does not come under purview of tolerance? **
I am still waiting for YOU to show ME proof of all the things you have accused me off very openely in this post.
I will wait.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
truthfulvisitor, any religion or idea that cannot stand respectful criticism is a failure, and those that defend that stance will be the losers in history.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
"Islam is not a set of idea or rituals.... it is universal religion mandated for Muslims from one any only Lord Allah the most Almighty!
It may be your perception that Islam stands for criticism"
For heaven's sake, listen to yourself. you aren't even making sense.
Now, to be clear: I don't have anything at all against Muslims, actually, I'd say about 95% of the ones I've met in my life are perfectly normal, likeable and very pleasant. Until the question of religion is brought up and then we all have to pussyfoot around to avoid being called critical, offensive or, worst of all, "Islamophobic racists".
This abnormal sensitivity is exactly what you have been displaying in this thread and it is precisely for that reason that I can turn to the CRITICISM of Winston Churchill, speaking in 1899 about his experiences in the Sudan, and can say that, thanks to you, Advocate, I now know that what he said then applies today too:
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
Oh DEAR how very RACIST and 'Orientalist' of me, as Edward Said would no doubt say.
Well, the truth hurts - so suck it up. We're all tired of all this pussyfooting around on eggshells, and constantly twisting and diluting words in sentences to avoid saying what we really think. So let Churchill do the talking. And you know what? I'd bet that 80% of those reading this thread would agree with me; they're just too scared to come out and say it.
-------------
"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West
Religion may be a set of ideas & rituals practices by people for you Truthful......
Islam is not a set of idea or rituals.... it is universal religion mandated for Muslims from one any only Lord Allah the most Almighty!
It may be your perception that Islam stands for criticism .....Religion for you may be like dress so that you may change whenever you want,...
but for A Muslim.... it something universal.....a command of our Lord to follow His prescribed rules. Is that ok to you!
Don’t feel sorry for me..... feel sorry for yourself
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I am pleased to note that now ultimately you are in agreement with my stance on Israel!.
So you are agreeing that creation of Israel was itself fraud by default! If this is the case, really i should applaud you and your understanding.
From very first post of mine in this thread i insisted that clear line should be drawn between freedom of speech and expression and licence to insult. I am of the view that the said freedom right should not be used as a weapon to insult anyone!
I have not said that you were the one who jumped in this thread taunting on my signature.... I know that it was some one else.
Religion is something very sensitive for its followers...... so why we can not be tolerant enough not and avoid criticising religion.
Agreed with BRITEXPAT that religious leaders and followers should be criticized but not RELIGION itself.
Show me any post in this thread..... wherein i assaulted any religion.....Is this not tolerance from my end that a so called liberal directly assaulted at my religion and my religious values, even though i tolerated his remarks...... is this does not come under purview of tolerance?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Really i even don’t want to hear from you.
Lead your own life in a way which suits you...
Childish posts belongs to you.........And i am amazed to see that you notwithstanding your said approach you tend to come back with “tiresome” remark.....
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
You have got it so wrong.
** Since beginning you are making mockery of religion and religious principles.**
NEVER ONCE in this whole post have I EVER mocked religion.
I will invite any member from QL including the moderators themselves to check ALL my posts and give everybody here CONCLUSIVE proof that I NEVER mocked or been disrespectful about religion.
Also, if you care to check back the threads I actually supported your stance on Israel. I actually AGREED with you. I actually posted that I supported you and so did others.
It was somebody ELSE that pointed out that your signature could have been 'insulting'. You were at the time, stating that nobody had the right to INSULT nor CRITICISE another persons religion or country. I think the point they were making was, you seemed to be a hypocrite.
** This shows your sick mentality and the culture from where are you! And as i was there in UK for two years i know what culture and background is prevailing there..... so that’s not your fault at all! **
^^^^^^ again insulting and 'racist', two things you claim to dislike and accuse others of.
Again, anybody here can check that, I HAVE NOT INSULTED ANYBODYS COUNTRY OR RELIGION HERE!
** The problem rests with you. Imperialism and neo colonialism is preached by your westerns nations in disguise of preaching democracy accordingly. What should i expect from you! **
^^^^ Why is that relevant to the debate or me? I welcome your freedom of speech, however, as YOU said so many times, NONE of us are free to insult.
** I know biasness and prejudice prevailing with you! If you were so unbiased why did not you commented on the recent catastrophe in Palestine. you took all your time just to laugh at me and laugh on the cause but nowhere when thread was diverted to Palestine issue.... you posted your thoughts..***
Yes I did post my thoughts. I actually agreed with you.
Now, for the last time Advocat, feel free to copy and paste ANYTHING I have said at any time that is biased, prejudice or disrespctful to religion or country!
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
no more or no less than yours advocate. But I also exercise my right to not respond to your rather childish posts. I don't know who you think you are talking to but surely you have noticed that I have not directly communicated with you for some time now.
I thought you had better know that this is the last time I am directly talking to you on this thread.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
in fact, quite frankly, the fact that you, as a representative of your religion, are so aggressive, unreasonable and stupid, is all the proof I need to know that your religion clearly DOES need some kind or rational criticism to bring it back to planet Earth.
we feel SORRY for YOU!
any religion is a set of concepts, ideas and rituals practiced by people and handed down to their children.
every religion must therefore be subject to criticism. they don't deserve human rights as they are not human.
anyway, what do christians, jews, buddhists and hindus have in common? that they don't get their knickers in a twist over other people's comments about their faith. perhaps they have more security and confidence in their beliefs than those muslims who will go on a five day rant about 'defaming religion' on the slightest mention of something negative about it.
OK.. Having read the numerous postings, I would like to modify my earlier stance.
I believe that NO Religion , including Atheism should be open to crticism, BUT religious leaders are.
I wonder what type of teacher you are?????
I have never seen any teacher like you! Better leave this noble profession and join zionist in thier nefarious designs againt muslims!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Yes Penny the thread was about discussion on Freedom to criticize religion and i posted my first COMMENT ON THE TOPIC TOO. It was a so called intellectual who just jumped in and taunted at my signature for which i have every right to use! It is apparent that herein QL i have seen many times that a general agenda is against Muslims.
Since beginning you are making mockery of religion and religious principles. Of you are laughing at me...... there is not problem at all! This shows your sick mentality and the culture from where are you! And as i was there in UK for two years i know what culture and background is prevailing there..... so that’s not your fault at all!
You are hitting to my post and asking others to read my comments, but let the others to read also what you have said before!
I know biasness and prejudice prevailing with you! If you were so unbiased why did not you commented on the recent catastrophe in Palestine. you took all your time just to laugh at me and laugh on the cause but nowhere when thread was diverted to Palestine issue.... you posted your thoughts..
The cause of Palestine might be irrelevant to you....... but not for me...... and for me that cause is truly associated with religion since massacre of Muslims therein is now based on religious implications. People are being killed there because they are Muslims....... and Insha’Allah these days shall for sure will reach to its destiny......
The problem rests with you. Imperialism and neo colonialism is preached by your westerns nations in disguise of preaching democracy accordingly. What should i expect from you!
I can also LAUGH on you..... bit i must not rather i just feel sorry for you.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Yes Penny the thread was about discussion on Freedom to criticize religion and i posted my first COMMENT ON THE TOPIC TOO. It was a so called intellectual who just jumped in and taunted at my signature for which i have every right to use! It is apparent that herein QL i have seen many times that a general agenda is against Muslims.
Since beginning you are making mockery of religion and religious principles. Of you are laughing at me...... there is not problem at all! This shows your sick mentality and the culture from where are you! And as i was there in UK for two years i know what culture and background is prevailing there..... so that’s not your fault at all!
You are hitting to my post and asking others to read my comments, but let the others to read also what you have said before!
I know biasness and prejudice prevailing with you! If you were so unbiased why did not you commented on the recent catastrophe in Palestine. you took all your time just to laugh at me and laugh on the cause but nowhere when thread was diverted to Palestine issue.... you posted your thoughts..
The cause of Palestine might be irrelevant to you....... but not for me...... and for me that cause is truly associated with religion since massacre of Muslims therein is now based on religious implications. People are being killed there because they are Muslims....... and Insha’Allah these days shall for sure will reach to its destiny......
The problem rests with you. Imperialism and neo colonialism is preached by your westerns nations in disguise of preaching democracy accordingly. What should i expect from you!
I can also LAUGH on you..... bit i must not rather i just feel sorry for you.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Agreed with Hashin!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Thank you for your post.
However, I think you will find;
I have never mocked or ridiculed any religion in all the time I have been posting.
I have shown great respect to people who believe, on several occasions.
Advocat certainly has had me laughing, but that is me laughing at HIM and his postings NOT at his religion.
This post IS supposed to be a debate on 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Not a personal soap box for the purpose of a politcal rally for Advocat.
I think if you read what Advocat has posted to me, you will see he actually needs to apologies not only to me but a number of other people.
You appear not to have read most as I do not wear my religion like clothes that I put on and take off at will.
I am an athiest.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
People need to understand that religions are fundamentally different from each other in the way that that they are practised. While one group may feel comfortable keeping religion locked away from most facets of life, other religions may find that contradicting to their beliefs.
It is unfair for either to expect one to be like the other... Davidak and Penny may feel that Advocate weaves religion in to every subject. But Advocate on the other hand would feel that Davidak and Penny treat their religions the same way that they treat their clothes... they wear it when they want to and take it off when they don't...
No point for either to get all patronizing about the other and then wonder why the other isn't seeing the 'light'... Some people feel that their societies have evolved to the point that they don't need religion... whereas other people feel that the very fabric of society disintegrates whenever it distances itself from religion...
Having said all that... I believe religion has its place... it gives purpose to life. if you can't see it, too bad for you... My best friend was an atheist. Recently when his dad passes away, his world changed up side down... he has been a devout since then...
most if not all people who denounce religion on this thread, when hard times befall will start remembering God... its human...
Penny i totally agree with what you were saying.
It's just he seems to wind religion into everything we and he says.
please give the same advice to advocate, ie going over the same ground over and over and over again.
And he could do with cutting out the personal insults to those who have not said anything remotely personal to him.
maybe you're the man to get through to him?
Again , peace and take care.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
If we agree to place religion beyond special reach, to give it "human rights", even though it is not human, it is like deciding to privilege one theory and shield it from debate.
imagine if I said.. it is now illegal to criticise or question post-colonial theory; or capitalist economics; where would we be?
We NEED the power to debate religion from both sides of the debate. otherwise we end up with people like the one shown in this video allowed free speech and we have nowhere to argue back from.
Take a look at the first moments of this awful video and then ask .. is anything really so sacred that it must be placed beyond criticism?
http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=0861ff3eabea1ceb73e4
How are you? Well I hope.
I shall indeed take your advice. I was just trying to hint at our mutual friend that he has, for days, been doing what you accuse me of, namely, sounding like a broken record.
Nice to have you back,
take care,
Peace
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I said I WISH ....not that all people should wish... read the tread. Maybe religion is clouding your reading and thinking
It is always the lost that need my guidance
OMG don't any of you have jobs? you've been at this for days!
Hilarious.
-------------
SPONSER ISRAEL - At least they can spell
Just cos you come from a setting where religion may have lost its footing, why do you wish the same for the rest of us who are blessed with religion that is relevant?
that would make the world a safer place for all.... and the money you would save... think about it...
I see your comments as dumber than a box of hair
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
if you find this thread tiresome... scroll to the top of the page... and then click on forum... you will find several topics there... and hopefully you will find something u like there... if you still don't, then go to www.google.com and then enter whatever it is that interests you... and then click on search... stop saying tiresome tiresome tiresome like a broken record
Hashin….. they would never realize what they are doing………
They are mocking on me….. the thing which I really don’t care…. Their mocking would not, for sure, shall affect me!
They are here just to make fun….. that’s tell the whole story.
See, you would not find any comments on my posts wherein I reproduced some portion from an interview pertaining to situation in Gaza and double standards of west….. you know why because they don’t want to discuss the cause out of their prejudiced mind….. they just know how to make fun of that!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
penny... your argument about seeing the funny side of religion and how Muslims aren't able to see it... its twisted
Again... what you are saying is...
We make fun of our religions and God
And therefore you should too??
Oh! Teacher is playing hide and seek.......
Again back with his silly teaching observations
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
So advocate, take some of your own advice and
"keep your realities with yourself."
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Why do you have to mock Islam? mock this individual advocate if you want to... why generalize on the whole religion?
Why not just keep away from the thread if this one individual is bothering you so much?
Do you see any Muslim mocking any of the other religions on this thread?
Why don't you learn from that positive trait rather than picking and mocking one aspect of a religion which you obviously haven't tried to learn or understand?
You are laughing……… and I feel sorry for you on your health conditions……
Really penny you need some proper mental treatment.
Me a comedian…..?????? That’s why I am insisting that go and get proper medication first!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
get this lad a job on the stage.
And tonights BAFTA or should it be DAFTA, goes to Advocat for being the most (fill in the blanks) lol
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Again thank you. You make my day. I laugh so much AT YOU.
I have tears rolling down my face. Do you realise how funny you are?
Are you a comedian?
You should be.
You are hilarious.
And just so I can laugh even more AT YOU,
** start developing doubts on your own thoughts!!!
Tell me oh wise one, which thoughts should I doubt first?
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Davidak....
Better keep your realities with yourself..... i do not want to be influenced by those silly realties.
Penny..... If you are so concerned with image of Islam being portrayed in negative way due to my observations...... do a favour....... start teaching Islam to us! What would be great irony than this situation when an atheist would teach us about Islam.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
and then denounce it, will someone please come and kill me for being an apostate and put me out of my freakin' misery so I don't have to listen to this ridiculously pedantic thread anymore?
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Proofs............ Read again your all posts earlier posted in this thread........I wonder even if you can find any substantial inputs which can be said as proofs..... because your mind is full of biasness.... adn biased person see the things with pre determined point of view
I can point out many........ but i really don’t want headache again which i SHALL face while reading your “silly and nonsense” posts again. You said @ i never harmed any human being or animal”...... what is your definition of harm???
Respect for religion from atheists??????? Your comment has been duly taken!
That’s why i said earlier..... start developing doubts on your own thoughts!!!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
the thing is, he is doing Islam/Muslims no good at all. Anybody from abroad who has preconceived ideas about Islam/Muslims will just think they are now justified.
I don't care one bit if he is religious, that is up to him and good luck to him.
What I do not like about the boy is his inability to see what a fool he is making of himself.
He has been brainwashed and for that I feel sympathy for him.
This thread was about freedom of speech and he has turned into a one man mission.
He will grow up one day and see the light I am sure.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Argueing with him is pointless his mind is too far gone to comprehend reality. Thus is the outcome of religion.
** Yes right from very beginning to the end you are prejudiced to Islam and Muslims. **
Where is your proof?
** Thank you for pointing out mistakes rather i must say “typo” from my posts.
A tpoy - would be that. Your sentence construction and grammar are awful. I think instead of concentrating so hard on 'big words' you do not understand, in an obvious bid to make you seem "clever', I would perhaps be having some basic grammar lessons.
** So for you...... giving charities completes your duties towards humanity.............. i really feel sorry for such understanding of affairs.**
You are very selective are you not on what you pick on?
As for your attitude to Athiests.
I lead a good moral life, I have standards and I live by them. I give to Charities, I am kind to people I meet. I have never harmed another human being or animal.
I love my partner, my children, my family and friends.
My job brings me into contact with children who are disabled and most of my work is done for free.
I am not bragging about what I do, I tell you these things, for one simple reason; I do NOT need to worship any god for me to be a good person and there are an awful lot of fellow Athiests like me.
On the other hand I have and I suspect many others have met some truly evil, hideous monsters who are very 'religious'.
I have always and still do respect people who do follow a religion. I talk about religion to my children, back in England they went to a faith school. I do not deprive my children access to religion. They can and will make up their own mind about it. They were both Christened as my partner wanted that and I respected his wishes.
^^^^^^ see above
** So for you...... giving charities completes your duties towards humanity**
I think you will find I do a little more than just give to charities.
** Religion for followers is something most importation than other wordy affairs. If atheist can understand what religion means..... they would not have been atheist any more......
I think you mean - religion is more IMPORTANT than other ??wordy or WORDLY affairs? I do understand religion and if you remember I have clearly stated, I respect their right to be religious.
You can understand a persons point of view and belief, it does not mean we all have to follow.
** You are mistaken Penny..... i am not attacking you...... even i am not enjoying in replying back to your posts........**
mentally hampered people
You know Penny.... you really need some sort of counselling..... if not treatment.
What i else i can except from a people like you!
i don’t need certificates from trolls.
Yes, i don’t want to reply your silly questions
I think most people would say that is an 'attack'.
tirade - a long angry speech of criticism or accusation.
Again proof please.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Teacher is back with his “teaching observations”….I wonder what his pupils would be receiving from him and his weird observations!!
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
tiresome and the post below this one will ramble on ad nauseum.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Yes right from very beginning to the end you are prejudiced to Islam and Muslims.
Thank you for pointing out mistakes rather i must say “typo” from my posts. What convince me is that you actually got the idea what i meant from that incorrect sentence. And at the end of the day i am not from a "native" English speaking country...... accordingly, bear with me please!!!!!!!!
So for you...... giving charities completes your duties towards humanity.............. i really feel sorry for such understanding of affairs.
This may be your perception that atheists too understands what religion is? Religion for followers is something most importation than other wordy affairs. If atheist can understand what religion means..... they would not have been atheist any more......
You are mistaken Penny..... i am not attacking you...... even i am not enjoying in replying back to your posts........
Now it is my turn to wait for a new theory being promulgated by you and another tirade from your end.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Yes right from very beginning to the end you are prejudiced to Islam and Muslims.
Thank you for pointing out mistakes rather i must say “typo” from my posts. What convince me is that you actually got the idea what i meant from that incorrect sentence. And at the end of the day i am not from a "native" English speaking country...... accordingly, bear with me please!!!!!!!!
So for you...... giving charities completes your duties towards humanity.............. i really feel sorry for such understanding of affairs.
This may be your perception that atheists too understands what religion is? Religion for followers is something most importation than other wordy affairs. If atheist can understand what religion means..... they would not have been atheist any more......
You are mistaken Penny..... i am not attacking you...... even i am not enjoying in replying back to your posts........
Now it is my turn to wait for a new theory being promulgated by you and another tirade from your end.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
tiresome and the post below this one will ramble on ad nauseum about 'bias','certificates' and 'prejudice'.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
bias - inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair.
Can you please give me an example of my bias behaviour?
prejudice - preconceived idea that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Can you please give me an example of my prejudice behaviour?
Again you are using 'big boys' words that you don't understand.
However, biased and prejudice do describe you perfectly.
**What i else i can except from a people like you! **
CORRECTION, it should be - What else can I EXPECT from a PERSON like you.
** Original thought in my head........ wondering if apparently mentally hampered people can comment like this also....
I think without you realising it, you answered your own question there 'dear'.
** Giving just charities don’t make one human by default.......... there are lots of to be done apart from giving charities. If you think that by giving charity you have done your job..... that’s may be your perception..... **
Can you suggest anything else then?
** You know Penny.... you really need some sort of counselling..... if not treatment. You are completely biased and prejudiced .... that’s what i can say about you. **
Tut tut Advocate, you seem to be losing your cool 'dear'. Not very errr, shall we say religious of you to defame somebodys character like that is there?
However, I do respect you right to 'freedom of speech'.
** At last..... you have your won rights to lead your way of life.......... i am not encroaching the said right....... but at the end of day .....you are an atheist.... and atheist can never ever understand what religion is? **
How bias and prejudice you are Advoacte!
Athiest - a person that has a theory or belief that God does not exist.
theory - a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
belief - an acceptance that something exists or be true, especially one without proof.
NOTHING there to suggest that athiests can never understand what religion is.
I may not fully understand your religion Advocat but then again, reading your inane comments neither, does it appear do you.
I look forward to your next diatribe.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
follow the link for more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
Islam is peaceful....... yes of course........
But peaceful does not means that you have to keep your mouth shut when injustice is prevailing all around you.......
Can you provide any “authentic” proof of the above statement alleged to be made by Bin Laden? I doubt whether Bin Laden exist in this world any more..... or just his name is carried on by America and their godfathers to assault Muslims in disguise....!
Any terrorist activity which kills innocent is not justified at all! But why such situation arose?
I have read many articles even from west media that 9/11 was fabricated and plotted by some Zionist...... there are many other serious issues connected with 9/11
Nevertheless no matter who the killer was.........9/11 or any other activity which kill innocents can not be justified at all!.............. but serious catastrophe than 9/11 is the genocide committed on daily basis by Zionist Israel.....
Re question answer session from atheists..... yes every one the right to ask questions...... but if you are from prejudiced background.... i don’t think they should ask any more questions....... as such questions and answers thereto results in waste of time.... that’s all
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
I make your day! What i else i can except from a people like you! Go ahead enjoy the day...
Yes, i do read and know what i am copying and pasting. For ease of reference and authenticity of the copy-paste i also provide link so that it can be verified too!
Yes, i don’t want to reply your silly questions....... for an atheist i should rather not waste my time......
Several times i said..... i don’t need certificates from trolls..... is that not CLEAR to you
Original thought in my head........ wondering if apparent mentally hampered people can comment like this also....
Giving just charities don’t make one human by default.......... there are lots of to be done apart from giving charities. If you think that by giving charity you have done your job..... that’s may be your perception.....
You know Penny.... you really need some sort of counselling..... if not treatment. You are completely biased and prejudiced .... that’s what i can say about you.
At last..... you have your won rights to lead your way of life.......... i am not encroaching the said right....... but at the end of day .....you are an atheist.... and atheist can never ever understand what religion is?
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Islam is peaceful....... yes of course........
But peaceful does not means that you have keep your mouth shut when injustice is prevailing all around you.......
Can you provide any “authentic” proof of the above statement alleged to be made by Bin Laden? I doubt whether Bin Laden exist in this world any more..... or just his name is carried on by America and their godfathers to assault Muslims in disguise....!
Any terrorist activity which kills innocent is not justified at all! But why such situation arose?
I have read many articles even from west media that 9/11 was fabricated and plotted by some Zionist...... there are many other serious issues connected with 9/11
Nevertheless no matter who the killer was.........9/11 or any other activity which kill innocents can not be justified at all!.............. but serious catastrophe than 9/11 is the genocide committed on daily basis by Zionist Israel.....
Re question answer session from atheists..... yes every one the right to ask questions...... but if you are from prejudiced background.... i don’t think they should ask any more questions....... as such questions and answers thereto results in waste of time.... that’s all
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You make my day you really do.
You advicing me to seek help for my deadly brain disease.I am laughing so hard at that.
Do you actually read and understand the stuff you copy and paste?
Your level of written English is not that great and you obviously find it very difficult to understand the semantics of langugae.
I think in all of the thread, there has only been ONE person agreed with you.
Not once have YOU replied to any direct questions put to you.
This posting was about FREEDOM OF SPEECH, YOU changed it into a forum on the Israel/Palastine conflict.
Not ONE person has said that you are WRONG to have that support for the cause.
You claim to love Islam so much and yet time and time again, you have been told, by even your fellow Muslims to stop as you are giving Islam a bad name.
Yet you continue to bombard the thread with copy and pastes from ?google.
I could go on google now and get you reams and reams of stuff to copy and paste on here showing how actually the Arabs took that land from the Jews.
You try to sound so clever and superior by using BIG grown up words that you so CLEARLY do not understand the meaning off, or you would not use them.
You have not got ONE original thought in your head.
NOBODY was challenging you at the start of all this; you have actually probably put more people of Islam than anybody I know.
As for your attitude to Athiests.
I lead a good moral life, I have standards and I live by them. I give to Charities, I am kind to people I meet. I have never harmed another human being or animal.
I love my partner, my children, my family and friends.
My job brings me into contact with children who are disabled and most of my work is done for free.
I am not bragging about what I do, I tell you these things, for one simple reason; I do NOT need to worship any god for me to be a good person and there are an awful lot of fellow Athiests like me.
On the other hand I have and I suspect many others have met some truly evil, hideous monsters who are very 'religious'.
I have always and still do respect people who do follow a religion. I talk about religion to my children, back in England they went to a faith school. I do not deprive my children access to religion. They can and will make up their own mind about it. They were both Christened as my partner wanted that and I respected his wishes.
You see Advocate, you need to actually read more, listen more, shout less, take your 'blinkers' off and start to respect the fact that in this world, there are many different types of people and some of us are called Athiests.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Advocate wrote
A Muslim who misuse sunna and Quran cant be a Muslim at all. How can you judge that so called extremist are misusing those. Are you aware of sunna and Quran?
----
Well muslims tell me that suicide bombing is not Islamic, islam is peaceful, which I believe. So when Bin laden says "people who kill westerners/muslim traitors will be rewarded with 40 virgins" advocate are you saying he is speaking truth!!!
So you telling me bin laden is not misusing sunnah/hadith!!!!!???? 9/11 was justified - now that IS hate not freedom of speech.
I find it worrying that as soon as I mention bin laden you feel you have to mention bad things the US did as if bin laden is justified. Which also has nothing to do with free speech and religion.
Advocate you also said athiests cant talk about religion - well again your anti-free speech, any person should be able to question.
Irf comments are worrying, the generalisation that non muslims are all morally corrupt and only muslims are good. Seriously - Bahrain - saudi causeway - any weekend.
This is what I can least expect from you UMMJAKE…
I am employed or not or whether hit by recession is not your concern at all! See growing unemployment rates and laying off news in your country first!
I don’t care at all…… what you or like minded say for me…… I don’t need any certificate of wisdom from your end. Is this clear to you NOW!
Re the link provided you MUST note that only some relevant contents were reproduced herein…… I know you must be frustrated by those! It is apparent!
Better you remain OFF. There is nothing for which I should care at least for you and like minded prejudiced ppl.
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advocate, because apparently you are not gainfully employed, nor do you have anything better to do than to brainlessly cut and paste sections of an article that you ALREADY provided QLers the link to.
START A NEW THREAD IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE THE ISRAELI AND PALESTINIAN CONFLICT!
And newsflash: we're allowed to earn our bread and butter here in the Gulf AND criticise it if we want to. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Just because you offer up some criticism about something, doesn't mean you don't see anything positive in it.
I love my country and am proud to be an American, wouldn't trade my citizenship there for anywhere else in the world, but there are a lot of things that I am critical of my country for. I think everybody on the planet could say the same....
You're sounding like a broken record on here, advocatefk, and if you haven't heard what other posters have been telling you, let me say it one more time: you're working against the cause you're trying to so valiantly champion on here. By being so hostile and loud and over-the-top, you're actually turning people off. Think about your tactics.
You attract more flies with honey than vinegar, as we say.
Yes, Flood of innocent blood by Zionist Israel.
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wat a flood
eheemm
a target="_blank" href="http://www.blingcheese.com/">
Baby Dracula
Question:
Is the West adopting double standards? The Sudanese President is about to be issued a warrant by the ICC for war crimes in Darfur. The situation there pales in comparison to what has happened recently in Gaza.
Answer:
That is the whole thing about the issue of criminal responsibility. It is the weak, the leaders of the Third World countries, who are subject to this legal framework, but the strong are exempt. And that goes back to the end of the Second World War. U.S. military people were not prosecuted for using the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, while the Japanese and the Germans were held responsible for war crimes. They obviously committed terrible war crimes but so did the victorious powers. Recently, you had the trials of [Slobodan] Milosevic and Saddam Hussein, but no one would talk about prosecuting George W. Bush or Tony Blair. They are certainly as indictable as the others.
If you look throughout international life, you see that it is characterised by pervasive double standards. It goes back to the U.N. Charter itself, which gives the five permanent members of the Security Council a veto. And that veto, in effect, is saying that the U.N. Charter and international law do not apply to the powerful. The charter is a regulatory framework for the weak – the secondary states.
The entire international order rests on double standards. You never see humanitarian intervention by the South in the North. You see it in relation to nuclear proliferation and you see it in relation to restrictions on the use of force and in the war crimes area. The strong have impunity and exemption and the weak are subject to a regulatory framework.
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Answer
There were several factors. One was the internal Israeli elections that were held in February. The government in power wanted to show that it is tough on security issues. The Israeli public wanted such a demonstration. Then the IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] wanted an opportunity to show that it could defeat a movement of this kind after its failure in Lebanon in 2006. Some people had the idea that a show of force of this kind sends a signal to Iran that Israel is prepared to use any kind of tactic to defend its interests. There is an Israeli preoccupation with Iran. They are scared of Iran. In one way, the Palestinians were victimised for the sake of Israel’s Iran policy.
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Answer
The truth is that many Arab states have a very strong connection with the anti-Iran policy. They think Hamas has some connection with Iran. They are worried about the strength of their own Islamic parties, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Demonstrations against the Israeli actions in Gaza have been stopped not only in Egypt but also on the West Bank by the Palestinian Authority. But if you ask who won this phase of the war, it is far from clear. Hamas may have been beaten but has emerged politically stronger both in the West Bank and Gaza.
On the world scale, Israel suffered a great setback in terms of its reputation. Many countries have terminated business contracts with it. There is a big $3 billion broken contract with Sweden. A French firm that was building a railway network between the settlements and Jerusalem has opted out. In South Africa, dock workers have refused to unload cargo from Israel. A soccer game between Israel and Turkey could not take place because there was so much opposition.
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Answer
If you notice, ever since the 1982 Lebanon war, Israel has been fighting against people rather than governments. The 1982 war ended with the massacres in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. Then you had the Lebanon war of 2006, where essentially the Israeli military was trying to destroy a movement, not to fight an army or a normal state opponent. As in Gaza, it is clear that you cannot use modern weaponry against a political movement that has no weapons to fight you with.
This shift from war against neighbouring states to war against popular movements is blurring the line between war and crime. Because if you fight this kind of war, you inevitably engage in violence against people. In these kinds of battlefield situations, people don’t even use the word war; they use the word “massacre” or “atrocity”. It does not seem like a war as there is only one side in the military encounter. The enemy is the people rather than another state. This is the first time a civilian population was disallowed the option of being refugees. Even in Fallujah, when the Americans attacked they tried to get the civilians to leave. Israel did not allow even terminally ill people to leave.
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Answer:
It is clear that Israel wanted to find a pretext for launching the December 27 attacks on an essentially defenceless society that had been subject to 18 months of severe blockade. Food, fuel and medicine were kept at a sub-subsistence level. The population’s mental and physical health was deteriorating. Israel was attacking a highly weakened society. And it did something that no modern war belligerent has done. It walked the civilian population into the war zone. It did not allow Palestinian civilians – including women, children and the old, the ill and disabled people – to leave Gaza. It only allowed the foreign wives [of Gazans] to get out of Gaza. Most of the 5,000 wounded and more than 1,300 killed were civilians. It was a war waged against children and the civilian population.
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Answer:
It has been much more successful than it was expected to be. If you look at the record, Hamas, when it was elected in Gaza in January 2006, immediately established a unilateral ceasefire and offered to deal with Israel politically. It maintained the ceasefire for almost a year despite the fact that Israel continued with its policy of assassinations from time to time, killing quite a few Palestinian civilians. Basically, Israel was instrumental in starting the violence. It was only then that the rockets came in retaliation. Firing rockets at civilians is not accepted legally or morally, but these rockets were not effective. They have done very little damage. Then, under Hamas’ pressure the militants observed a temporary ceasefire from July 2008. Cross-border violence almost totally disappeared, and it was again Israel that broke the truce by the November 4 attacks in Gaza, which killed six or seven Palestinians and led to a resumption of rocket fire and retaliation. But not a single Israeli was killed in the entire year
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Follow the link pertaining to interview of Richard Falk, U.N. Special Rapporteur “on the situation of human rights” in Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories which is self explanatory.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20090327260604400.htm
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If you find Gulf intolerant who the hell is compelling you to stay…..
Earning your bread and butter from Gulf….. and on the same line criticizing Gulf!
I have also studied in UK for 2 years…. And I know how much people are tolerant there….. no clue about other countries.
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So now I am your little baby………… You know Penny you are really a victim of some deadly mental disease….. and you need proper medical advise……….
I should not “WASTE” my time replying you..!
Please consult any good physiatrist for good treatment…. And if you need any help from my end let me know,
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Who is hell bent on freedom of speech and expression. Are you not aware of the full discussion herein?
Freedom of speech and expression should not be drawn as right to insult… that’s all!
Religious sentiments are very sensitive… and any insult may lead to serious repercussions abd aftermath!
For peace to prevail in world, people should understand what religion means to their followers. Fort Atheists….. I have no words to say.
Symbols of faith are not banned……. You have all freedom of practicing your religion here. Are you not aware?
Breeding of people like me……. Introspect your self first! Acquire some reasons and logic and then get back to comment.
What type of tolerance you are speaking of! People here are assaualting directly on me and my religion and I am just replying to such allegations in parliamentary way….. Is this not tolerance…
So what tolerance means for you…… that you continue abusing and bashing me…. And I should rather keep my mouth shut!
This shows your prejudice and biasness. Nothing to add here more.
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I am sorry arecel, but I am reserving this debate for appropriate time..
the problem is over in this part of the world a vast majority do not want to know. There are of course those that are well read and versed in other religions and they are very people who I like to talk to. At least you get a balanced view.
I certainly know in England, R.E. teaches children about ALL religions and children from all religions are invited to share with their class mates the history, culture and key dates in their calendar. It is a lovely week.
I don't know why there are very few references to other religions here (Qatar). If the Muslims who have posted here are to be believed, and I do not doubt any of them. Islam is a religion that is tolerant of other religions.
Certainly in England we have Mosque and Church side by side.
I think schools over here should be allowed to teach religion. It is part of the British Curriculum and Muslim children should be given the option, to stay or leave that lesson.
When I was in Abu Dhabi, we had an area near the British Community School called St. Andrews Center. There were loads of places of worship there. One year the Indian Community School were doing an Xmas play. They had worked hard all year on it, the kids were all excited and the parents so proud.
Just as the play started the Iman of the Mosque next door to the center, started with a sermon. We could not hear a thing. Guess what? As soon as the play stopped so did the Iman.
I was furious. Those poor kids.
I think with telling you that, even though some areas of the Gulf are 'tolerant', there are always going to be those within that community who are not.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
So now you are on cloud nine and had shed your all veracity of the forum by using stupid words like f**k? This is your culture and rationalism……! That's out of frustration you are compelled to use such words! I really feel sorry for you.
You are basically a victim of ideological bankruptcy. it is now evident that you are as mad as a hatter.
By commenting on your signature…. I mean that you should start doubting your own opinion……. Cutting the story short…….. start developing doubts on what you uttered.
Hundred times I said….. I do not need any certificate from you or like minded. Better keep your certificate back to your pocket and start doubting your own thoughts. You really need to get proper medical advice….. as you brain is basically departed to the place better known to you.
Take care of your health first……
^^^^^ re your vebose vitriolic attack.
I can't be on cloud nine, it is full of people like you.
(a)Veracity means conformaity to facts and accuracy.
What has that got to do with my use of the word f*ck wit. Unless of course, you are right and by my usage I did indeed use 'comformaity and accuracy' by calling you that.
(b) Rationalism means, the practice or principal of basing opinions and actions on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional respnse.
Can't knock you on that as at this moment in time and probably forever I am indeed grateful I am not as religious as you; if this is an example of how faith can form a person.
I was/am not frustrated when I typed 'f*ck wit, I was laughing actually and there are so many other insults out there 'dear', that is one of my milder ones.
(c) Ideological means (actually I don't think it is a word.
Unless you meant, IDEOLOGY, which means a system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
I thought we were 'debating' religion not polictics or economics.
(d) By commenting on your signature…. I mean that you should start doubting your own opinion……. Cutting the story short…….. start developing doubts on what you uttered.
I did not utter anything I typed it and I actually stand by all I have said or I would not have typed it.
(e) Hundred times I said….. I do not need any certificate from you or like minded. Better keep your certificate back to your pocket and start doubting your own thoughts. You really need to get proper medical advice….. as you brain is basically departed to the place better known to you.
Struggled for quite a while wondering what your point is/was.
I think you mean, you do not look for anybody to agree with you? Was that it?
If so, that's fine, as this forum topic was about FREEDOM OF SPEECH, you continue 'dear'.
Better keep your certificate back to your pocket and start doubting your own thoughts.
I did ejeculate my cup of tea at this stage at that line. Did you mean to say? (Well to be honest I do not have a clue what you mean). But I will take a stab in the dark and say, 'keep your opinions to youself and look at what you have said?'
Nah, wont be doing that 'dear', it's my right as in FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
You really need to get proper medical advice….. as you brain is basically departed to the place better known to you.
Did you mean my brain has gone somewhere else (a better place, that I know of). If that is the case, I will just run and get it.
Do you want me to pick you a brain up whilst I am there?
They may be doing a BOGOF. Can't knock a bargain. I will try and get you one that works this time.
TO ADVOCATE - SPONSOR OF ALL C**P DICTIONARIES WORLD WIDE
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Video - 'Free Speech is Sacred'
I suggest you do not watch if you are so very easily offended.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Back on topic...
Could the resistance to freedom of speech simply be because there is little exposure to any other viewpoint, and therefore nothing to stimulate civilised debate and discussion?
For example, I've been trying for a few months now to find a single bookshop that has a section for popular science (anything written by scientists such as Darwin, Dawkins, Gould, Hawkins, Watson, Wiseman, etc...), and had no joy (on a side note it's no wonder that Qatar is ranked second from the bottom on the PISA 'Quality of Science education' tables).
Symbols of other faiths are banned from public display (i.e. no crosses on the top of a church) and there is no significant attempt to educate children in the customs and beliefs of other faiths.
Is all we need some education, in order to stop breeding people such as advocate, who see opposing views as mutually exclusive to their own (let's not forget that I'm not only referring to Muslims; Bush also indicated he saw things much the same way)? Could Education leed to a greater tolerance of those deemed "different" therefore making peace a little more realistic?
This shows your biasness and prejudice…. No addition more required from your comment to prove the case!
And don’t try to make story out of that… please…..
I don’t judge you as Shakespeare…. I am relying on my dictionary and I know I am correct….
The other words which you are referring to are different and have particular implications and usage…..
Go ahead with you prejudiced mind…. I don’t care!
Don’t point to my understanding…… save some for you and some for your kids…… so your legacy is not jeopardized in future.
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of her words; there is no double entendre.
With words like "ejaculate", "gay" and "pussy", there is.
I'm not being biased against you at all. Just pointing something out so you'll be aware of it in the future.
so carry forward legacy of your POV!!!
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on this particular point, I'm confident my POV is correct
;-)
And you can expect people using F**K.
See above posts of Penny! But those would not attract your sight and you would never ever point out such nonsense usage on public form but you would not even spare me of I am explanting the usage of word ..
What I can say…. Is this prejudice, biasness, rift? Or something else?
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advocate, the way i see it is simple. since there is israel, there should also be a separate state for the non- jewish palestinians. no objection from me.
mo lang!
It may be your usage of English…. It’s upon your astuteness how to entreating a “word” in a particular sense.
Nowhere my sentence was going other way round.
Wonder if your understanding to the language is far better than even oxford.
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yes Arcel……. Now you would agree that creation of Israel was the biggest fraud !
Yes I do agree that all inhabitants of the Palestine are Palestinians only having different religion.
But for Zionist, the only dream for greater Israel!
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You cannot expect to use the word EJACULATE on a public forum like this and NOT have people fixate upon its most COMMON meaning.
That would be like me saying someone is GAY when I mean happy, not homosexual...
Ummjake….
I must confess that you are not aware of the history relating Palestine.
Follow the link for more details , ( I may copy and paste here also but it would be a long file)
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2bcOd%2fF7pkgJUE53N3pZngd29EpXdGkMCOdrKLO7%2fruTsLQgIh97NipKWqv7TtztXWoHxzSzs9z%2b6JtHyBXxMcAY0Yr
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Read more about history….. if you want some help from my end let me know….. I can provide you relevant materials.
For me, I am not against Jews to be cast off from Palestine…..
In principle, there was no need of creation of any separate Jewish state….. this idea was itself a fraud.
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Don’t take word “ejaculate” in its other meaning. We all know that. Ejaculate also means “say something suddenly” as per oxford dictionary.
Ejaculate definition
other definition:
ejacu•late (ē jak′yo̵̅o̅ lāt′, i-; --yə-)
transitive verb, intransitive verb -•lat′ed, -•lat′•ing
1. to eject or discharge (esp. semen)
2. to utter suddenly and vehemently; exclaim
Etymology: < L ejaculatus, pp. of ejaculari, to throw out < e-, out + jaculari, to throw < jaculum, a dart, missile < jacere, to throw: see jet
So you should continue your laughing.
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the word "Palestinian" initially referred to ALL people who inhabited the lands historically known as Palestine -- so it basically included all the folks we now call Palestinian, Jewish(israeli), Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanese, and even some Egyptians (Sinai).
Historically, "Palestine" has never been an independent nation with its own government. The region known as Palestine has mostly been under foreign occupation (Rome, England, France, etc.)
The lands that were known as Palestine are today controlled by Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. So when people talk about Israel having taken the Palestinian's land, they should have a look at some of those older maps and notice that several Arab nations sucked up some territory, too. Haven't heard them offer to give back any territory to the Palestinians...
no sag, it is not okay. i am merely confused as to why some people would want to throw out the Jews in their land. its not okay for them to be thrown out and its not also okay for palestinians to be thrown out also. i see them all as Palestinians, only having different religions.
mo lang!
So arecel, Is it ok for Jews to throw palestinians out?
okay so i agree i am not an expert on Palestine. but can anyone tell me why the Jews should be cast off from this land? isn't it that the Jews owned this land in the first place? i mean even before Jesus was born, the Jews are living in Palestine. (sorry for the hijack)
mo lang!
advocate, ejaculating?? I am just laughing..
Yes you are hundred percent right that thread was not intended to discuss Israel and Palestine…!
See my first comment to this thread…… I was not one who created this diversion herein.
One so called intellectual poked her nose taunting my signature for which I have every right vested within my domain to use.
People are ejaculating their venom for the cause, leaving me with no options other than to let them have my replies.
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this was a thread originally started to talk about the freedome to criticise religion.
Somehow you've morphed it into a one-sided diatribe about Israel.
Start a new thread if that's what you want to rant and rave about.
I am Israel - I came to a land without a people for a people without a land. Those people who happened to be here, had no right to be here, and my people showed them they had to leave or die, razing 480 Palestinian villages to the ground, erasing their history.
I am Israel - some of my people committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers to represent me. In 1948, Menachem Begin was in charge of the unit that slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin, including 100 men, women, and children. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for our allies to butcher around 2,000 in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla.
I am Israel - carved in 1948 out of 78% of the land of Palestine, dispossessing its inhabitants and replacing them with Jews from Europe and other parts of the world. While the natives whose families lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship.
I am Israel - in 1967, I swallowed the remaining lands of Palestine - the West Bank and Gaza - and placed their inhabitants under an oppressive military rule, controlling and humiliating every aspect of their daily lives. Eventually, they should get the message that they are not welcome to stay, and join the millions of Palestinian refugees in the shanty camps of Lebanon and Jordan.
I am Israel - I have the power to control American policy. My American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) can make or break any politician of its choosing, and as you see, they all compete to please me. All the forces of the world are powerless against me, including the UN as I have the American veto to block any condemnation of my war crimes. As Sharon so eloquently phrased it, "We control America".
I am Israel - I influence American mainstream media too, and you will always find the news tailored to my favor. I have invested millions of dollars into PR representation, and CNN, New York Times, and others have been doing an excellent job of promoting my propaganda. Look at other international news sources and you will see the difference.
I am Israel - and you Palestinians want to negotiate "peace!?" But you are not as smart as me; I will negotiate, but will only let you have your municipalities while I control your borders, your water, your airspace, and anything else of importance. While we "negotiate," I will swallow your hilltops and fill them with settlements, populated by the most extremist of my extremists, armed to the teeth. These settlements will be connected with roads you cannot use, and you will be imprisoned in your little Bantustans between them, surrounded by checkpoints in every direction.
I am Israel - with the fourth strongest army in the world, possessing nuclear weapons. How dare your children confront my oppression with stones, don't you know my soldiers won't hesitate to blow their heads off? In 17 months, I have killed 900 of you and injured 17,000, mostly civilians, and have the mandate to continue since the international community remains silent. Ignore, as I do, the hundreds of Israeli soldiers who are now refusing to carry out my control over your lands and people; their voices of conscience will not protect you.
I am Israel - and you want freedom? I have bullets, tanks, missiles, Apaches, and F-16's, to obliterate you. I have placed your towns under siege, confiscated your lands, uprooted your trees, demolished your homes, and you still demand freedom? Don't you get the message? You will never have peace or freedom, because I am Israel.
http://www.subzerob lue.com/archives /2004/07/ i_am_israel. html
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So now you are on cloud nine and had shed your all veracity of the forum by using stupid words like f**k? This is your culture and rationalism……! That's out of frustration you are compelled to use such words! I really feel sorry for you.
You are basically a victim of ideological bankruptcy. it is now evident that you are as mad as a hatter.
By commenting on your signature…. I mean that you should start doubting your own opinion……. Cutting the story short…….. start developing doubts on what you uttered.
Hundred times I said….. I do not need any certificate from you or like minded. Better keep your certificate back to your pocket and start doubting your own thoughts. You really need to get proper medical advice….. as you brain is basically departed to the place better known to you.
Take care of your health first……
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Obsessed Muslims? What do you exactly mean?
So now you are distributing degrees to qlers here that who is educated or not!id this is the case Keep it under your hat It is as easy as pie to criticize some one.
It is my religion and I know what I am doing…..
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Mandi….. of course I am enjoying my age!
You said you have sympathy for the cause…… what are products of your sympathy? Giving some donations… charity…… joining protest march……. And that’s all!
These are not going to end the victimization of Palestinian people.
They are fighting for the land which they are entitled lawfully and historically… Zionist Israel has turned peace loving ME into hell just for sake of her nefarious designs and ulterior motives pertaining to greater Israel!
I am no one to comment on your rational and religious beliefs. Religion is something personal between follower and God and follower himself is responsible for his/her acts and deeds in front of Almighty. I do not care what you speak of sxxx or homosexuality, lesbian , gay etc…… this might be your culture and I am no one to comment. As far I am concerned I am opposed to these theories since my values as well as religion are opposed to the same.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
" pennypitstop said blabla ...
Talking to you directly now as I have done dealing with Advocate.."
You know pennypitstop, what I find amazing about advocate is that he alone has successfully kept the erudite QL community engaged and focused on this thread for 4 days thru 5 pages!
Well, all muslims share similar thoughts on Palestine Israel conflict because they all want justice. Palestinians are seized from all corners, stripped of their freedom and made slaves in their own land all by force.
Penny you should start doubting your opinion rather than shifting this burden on your Mum!!!
^^^^^
Again Adovocate you miss the irony of my signature.
My signature suggests respect for my mother and the suggestion, that maybe at times my mother may not agree with me.
However, knowing my Mother, she will just admit she is from a different generation, she brought me up to question and debate. As I say in my signature, she may not agree with me but at least she allows me to speak my mind.
And I will, and I will excercise my freedom of speech now and I don't give a flying crap if I get kicked off.
You by your postings are too busy battling WITH demons of your much brighter sister, who you lived under the shadow off to be rational. Hence your need to feel superior in an enviroment where we are safe, as in nobody knows who the 'H' anybody else is. And then bringing Irf into back you up.
I feel quite sorry for you really, you are so arrogant/ignorant you can't back down and admit you have made a fool of yourself.
It is a bloody good job most of us QL know Muslims to be respectful nice people and can let people from all over the world know that.
If they read what you had put, first of all they would think Indian f*ck wit and secondly he is Muslim, so lets hate him.
Most people on here try to stop that type of stereotypical thinking. You 'dear' have just given an awful lot of people an awful lot of cannon fodder to throw back at you.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Mandi, Don't get upset. These are normal comments from religion obsessed muslims. Perhaps, he is not as educated as you are. Anyway, there is ignorance among muslims and it is difficult to get rid of it.The only better thing would be to deal with it wisely. Hope you understand.
Oh, I see, irf, the people who disagree with you are by definition immoral? The kind of people who make fun of religion and go to nude beaches and talk about sex? I don't think so, and I'm pretty sure you don't know that for a fact either. Kind of insulting, don't you think? Many of us live quiet, faithful, moral and modest lives. We respect the culture of the country we live in and admire the religion. We hold out our hands in friendship and continue to dialogue with others of different ethnicities and faiths. We try to overlook a lot of cultural biases, our own and others. And you want to insult us and label us as immoral? Why? I ask that in all sincerity and bewilderment - why? I engaged with advocate on his topic of Palestine becasue I've lived there and have sympathy with his passion for the land and people. He can be a bit stubborn but I admire his youthful energy. Now you come along and call us names? Again, why? Does it make you feel more moral? Well, it hurts my feeling and doesn't do much for continuing conversation here on QL.
Mandi
advocatefk do not bother, the problem is most of the ppl here on QL from certain background will not understand because these type of things or worst are normal for them.
abusing their own religion, making fun in films is e.g. normal.
we see in some parts of the world, normal to come out nude in open, nude beaches, talking openly about sXX with their kids leading to a very shameful culture, get the points?
Take care Buddy
ALLAH HU AKBAR - GOD IS GREAT
Thanks for your compliment of KID Mandi!!!
Penny you should start doubting your opinion rather than shifting this burden on your Mum!!!
While witnessing your all efforts that went astray now you all are trying to convince yourselves by terming me a "Kid".........
What should i react for this....Batten down the hatches!!!
I remain firm on what i said and ALEXA..... Even after 5 or 1o years there would be no changes in frame of mind!
If i am a kid and my words don’t suit you and your nefarious designs why the hell are you replying me back......
BOYCOTT ISRAEL- The Sponsor of Terrorism
Guys, give him a break. Look at his profile, he's a kid. I sincerely would have loved to know what his personal motivations were for his passionate interest in Palestine (as opposed to Darfur, Afghanistan, or any other place in the world where tragedy and suffering are so rife) but I don't think he's capable of articulating that sort of introspection. Kinda reminds me of that kid in New Jersey on QL who just knew that he was really a Bedouin warrior if only given the right venue. I'm thankful that the young do start out with such high ideals. Give it time to moderate (five or ten years), he's not even harming himself.
Mandi
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