Hi, qler
Please, i would like to know some major basics which divide shia and sunni muslims.
Most important, i would like to know which one of them is the real islam?
disagree with you and sorry to say your comments are baseless.
People like you are basically the main reason for destroying the image of Islam due to your hatred comments.
If you are a true Muslim, you must know that you should not speak if your don't know about it. Because based on your wording you are diverting others minds and taking them to the path Hell, instead of Sirat-tul-Mustaqeem.
May Allah Guide you and all other who have similar thinking.
U know whats funny all this Sunnis are contradicting themselves, and they are not shia yet they claim to know what shias belive and think, i have a qustion would u rather follow the freinds or the faimly themselves of the prphet? well the shias follow the faimly, i also would like to know all u say that abu bakir is the right caliph after the prophet but non of u are smarter than the prophet when abu bakir propsed to the daughter of the prophet he refused (prophet) yet when my imam ali proposed the prophet said yes, when the prophet first proposed islam imam ali was the the first to stand by him, he was the bravest from all the men and yet he was a child at the time.
Please add (pbuh)after prophet and (a.s) after imam ali
Shia has many sub beliefs which contradicts with Islam beliefs.
Read this again please
They both under go Islam because they both believe in one God but Shi'ite are having many things against pure Islam principles, for example Islam asks you to look for help from God only and never put a partner, Shi'ite put a partner for God and that partner is called Ali (God bliss him) who was one of the friends of our prophet Mohammed PBUH, and also some Shi'ite think that God made a mistake by letting our prophet Mohammed PBUH be the messenger of God after Jesus and Moses, some Shi'ite think that Ali should have been the messenger.
Also Shi'ite think that God has a representitive on this earth.
Shi'ite have what is called joy marriage where the girl can let her self married to any person for 1 min, 1 hour, 1 day what ever and not necessary any paper or parents.
There are many other things in which Shi'ite differ from Sunni.
At the end if pure Islam is on the right, then I can say that Many Shi'ite are walking left and going far away from it and Sunni Muslims are trying to aprropach and come closer to the pure Islam.
Speed... WHO ARE YOU to tell me not to post. Everyone is expressing his or her thoughts. So instead of mocking me either put something dealing with the topic or get the hell out.
Sunni is the correct one. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught us the way of Islam which is how the Sunni's practice it. After the Prophet Muhammads (PBUH) death Abu Bakir was the next in line to be the Muslim leader as ordered. The Shia's believed the ALI should have been the leader therefore started this whole split up. Plus Islam is about PEACE.. the Shia'as whip themselves because they killed Ali and they are punishing themselves. That isn't Islam. As Muslims we do not torture our own ENEMIES.. let alone ourselves! And last but not least. The word "Sunni" means "one who follows the traditions of the Prophet." I hope this helped.
Then how can you explain that Sunni people in Iran get the worse jobs compared to Shi'ite, even if some of these sunni people are more qualified than some Shi'ite?
hi there brothers and sisters, i'm confused? is Shi'ite and Sunni differs in belief regarding the religion of islam? please advise...tnx
They both under go Islam because they both believe in one God but Shi'ite are having many things against pure Islam principles, for example Islam asks you to look for help from God only and never put a partner, Shi'ite put a partner for God and that partner is called Ali (God bliss him) who was one of the friends of our prophet Mohammed PBUH, and also some Shi'ite think that God made a mistake by letting our prophet Mohammed PBUH be the messenger of God after Jesus and Moses, some Shi'ite think that Ali should have been the messenger.
Also Shi'ite think that God has a representitive on this earth.
Shi'ite have what is called joy marriage where the girl can let her self married to any person for 1 min, 1 hour, 1 day what ever and not necessary any paper or parents.
There are many other things in which Shi'ite differ from Sunni.
At the end if pure Islam is on the right, then I can say that Many Shi'ite are walking left and going far away from it and Sunni Muslims are trying to aprropach and come closer to the pure Islam.
we the shias do not believe Ali 2 b a messenger ... Imam Ali was the succesor of Prophet Muhammed(it wasnt Abu Baker) ... why did Prophet marry his beloved daughter Fatimah to Imam Ali ... because Allah subhanawatallah sayd let the noor get with noor !! and also ... only a real successor wud sleep on the prophet's bed !!
we believe in The AHLULBAYT(ALI AND HIS GENERATION AND HIS WIFE) because if u go and see u sunni's references and shia references then u will see wen Prophet MJuhammad was about 2 die...he sayd i leave behind 2 things 4 the Ummah
1.The holy Quran
2.The Ahlul Bayt(Imam Ali,Fatimah Zehra,Imam Hussan,Imam Hussain and his 9 sons ... !!! )
the thread will divert from Muslims Sects of Shia Sunni to....Muslims Faiths Vs Other religions.
Lets say about Islam has certain basic principles which are required to be accepted whole heartedly, understand and need to be followed in certain ways like Law of Marriage, inheritance, contracts, etc, etc called 'Sharia'.
The prime requirement is Faith and secondary are deeds (task)/ practising Islam, which are to be followed as per eligibility like prayers, Fasting, Zakat, Sacrifice and Hajj.
Further breakdown of the 'Faith' as follows:
1) Believe in Allah as ONLY GOD and his is ONE.
2) Believe in All HIS prophets and messengers, Angels and Jinns.....
3) Believe in Quran and All HIS Books (all books revealed on prior messangers).
4) So on..
The purpose of explaining above is to bifurcate between Faith (Imaan) and Deeds (Aamal) practising Islam.
Please note Imaan is The Foundation, while deeds are like a building / a tower..which one could Build and Beautify as far as possible. If foundation is strong one could build a strong tower or vice-versa.
The major difference among Shia and Sunnis are on FAITH hence the issue. There are agreed and accepted differences.
While both sects knew the destination however follow the different path to reach the destination called Heaven / Paradise / Jannah (currently HIDDEN), this will be clarified only on the Day of Judgment..who was on Right and who was on Wrong Path.
*Till then live with Love, peace and Unity :-) Be good and do good deeds. Allah knows the Best!
All Sahaba's (Companions) were "Sunnis"; very first and basic Group which follows path of Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) while all others are dissects from Sunnis.
To answer your query, I will post in detail the incident of Karbala some other time, to support my statement.
that Shia's are wrong. Demonkrazy and Graywolf joined the debate.......
NOW wait and watch how many Shia's defending claims will come up.....Uhuhhhhhhhhhh PEOPLE LUV & ENJOY WATCHING COCK-FIGHT AT PUBLIC PLACES!
I personally feels without referring to the Islamic history one could not justify the claims. As told earlier none of Qler's are competent enough to debate on this most controversial topic, which is over 800 years old. It started during the tenure of Khulafa-e- Rashideen and the subsequent incident of KARBALA happened.....we all know who assasinated Hazrat Imam Hussain (RA) and why did KARBALA incident happened.
and Lastly ALLAH knows the BEST!
Being we are part of sunni group, shall follow what we have learnt from our Ulema's and let Shia follows what their belief and PLEASE close this issue, which brings disharmony and disunity among MUSLIM brotherhood.
As a newcomer I have been reading some of your past posts since our last discussion.
I take back the langley insinuation and have nothing but respect for you. As a sunni myself I find your responses all too similar to how I would have responded and there is no question in my mind about your sincerity and integrity.
If you read what I wrote, I said both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe they are the real Islam. Therefore try and get it in your heads, that there are Muslims, people who practice Islamic faith who think YOU are practicing a false religion. Who are you to think yours is the correct path? Who are you to think you know what God meant better than someone else?
In fact, who is any human to think they understand Gods words and intentions? If God is real then you are but an ant under his foot, and the best you can do to understand his words, is mediocre at best. You're a mere human, so get prostrating ant.
'Allah says ''if u want something, ask me directly''. but dont involve anyone in between.'
The bible too talks about praying directly to GOD - which is what I was taught, however Catholics pray to Mary, mother of God... see similairities with Sunnis and Shias?
Again I say, we all pray to 1 God in the end.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
The prophet Muhammed (PBUH) transmitted all the knowledge that he had and left nothing hidden from us.
Now, The group that existed at the time of the prophet with the prophet are the true followers.
The kalima and the concepts that the people at the time of the prophet held, is the right kalima and the right concept.
So now if you ask any shia whats the kalima that was preached and taught by the prophet and read by his companions its clear it will be 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet'
But but here is the catch...
The shia kalima is 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet and Ali(RA) is the wasee of Allah'
So now you ask the shia is this the kalima that the prophet taught ? the answer is No
Then you ask him is this the kalima that Ali(RA) read and entered into Islam or for that matter Fatima(RA) Hassan and Hussain(RAM), the plain simple answer is NO.
They all read 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet and Ali(RA) is the wasee of Allah'
So you see akhi the sect whose kalima itself is flawed and man made how can they be on the correct path leave alone their other concepts
so what are you a christian or jew or an aeithist?
so i advise you that if you don't know about something, then you should research and investigate about it. internet is a vast world . everything is available. but still if u dont have time for research and investigate, then please keep yr mouth shut. i think you are trying to be extra smart. well if u have questions on religion then i would love to give you the answers. no matter whatever religion you are from, i am confident enough to prove your religion wrong from your own religious book.
Warm welcome and greetings to knowledge of Islam. i am happy that u are eager to know more about Islamic topics.
yes there are a lot of differences in Shias and Sunnis.
the shias do almost everything like sunnis. at the time of Our Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W.S.), they was no such thing like Shias and Sunnis. there were only the people who did the exact thing that he did. But then after he had passed away, long time after that there emerged a group called Shias. they started stating Hazrat Ali as the most superior. All muslims know that no one on this planet can take the place of our Last Prophet (S.A.W.S), because he has all the qualities of all the prophets starting from Adam (the first man on earth). he was not educated as all the prophets before him but he had the most knowledge of them. Every prophet before him had praised Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W.S) and they knew that this personality had to come as the last Prophet. When Adam was created in Heaven, he saw this kalima (saying) LA ILAHA ILLALLAH, MUHAMMED UR RASOOL ALLAH on the entrance of ALLAH's kingdom. Hazrat Ali's body in not found anywhere because, when he was killed in the battle, he just leaned on his horse and the horse went somewhere. nobody knows which direction and where. this was indeed the master plan of Allah. if his body was found, the shias would have made his grave the place of worship. which is not accepted by Allah. the shias mix many things with Islam. some follow Muhammed (S.A.W.S) but some follow Hazrat Ali. we all love Hazrat Ali and Hassan and Hussain Hazrat Fatima. but the shias make these people the source of their acceptance of prayers. now here is the point which is hated by Allah. Allah says ''if u want something, ask me directly''. but dont involve anyone in between. some shias have Quran of 40 verses some have 30 . we sunnis follow 30 which was reveled to our Prophet (S.A.W.S). and hadith Bukhari, Muslim and tirmidhi. But shias have their own concept. and when the month of Moharram approaches they hurt their body. and do many rubbish things . at the day of Judgement each and every part of our body will speak and tell its history. we have no right to hurt ant part of our body as told by our Prophet (S.A.W.S)
The truthful and sincere scholars are to be respected and followed. However the treacherous, deceitful government scholars are to be abhorred and disavowed from.
THE TRUTHFUL SCHOLARS ARE THE INHERITORS OF THE PROPHETS:
Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah will make him tread one of the paths towards Paradise. And the angels lower their wings out of contentment for the seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in the heavens and in the earth, even the fish in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the scholar over the worshipper is like the virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, for the prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a dirham for inheritance, but rather, they leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of inheritance).’” [1]
Is there an end to the struggle between good and evil, or between the supporters of Allah and supporter of the Shaytan?
How do we unite with those who curse the best we’ve ever had and the best of all people after Prophets and messengers? How do we rectify with those who curse Abi Bakr and Umar and Uthman (ra)?
How can we be close while they question the Quran? And never mind their denial because it is confirmed in their books. They even claim that a surah called “Surah Alwaleya” is part of the Quran. This exposes them and their lies.
How can unity be possible with those who believe in changing the book of Allah and allege that their Imams receive Holy books after the Quran, or with those who see that the Imams are higher than Prophethood?
TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD CAN NEVER CO-EXIST PEACEFULLY!
“Both Sunni and Shia Muslims believe their own particular religion is the 'real one', and that the other has falsehoods. There are more Sunni Muslim followers, therefore you will get more people saying Sunni is the correct path.
But to be honest, there is no real Islam. Even if the Quran is God's own words, it is now being read by people, and no matter how much we think we know what a sentence means, we are human, and we are fallible.”
Who are you as a non-Muslim trying to tell us “there is no real Islam?” Real Islam CERTAINLY does exist. It’s being fought for and defended everyday on the battlefield against the ZIO-CRUSADERS and APOSTATES in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, etc.
SPEED – “If shias are not Muslims, they would have not allowed in Makkah or Madinah in first place. They would have not allowed to worship in ANY MOSQUE in ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY.
This proves that Sunni Scholars in Saudia, Egypt and other Muslim Countries belives that Shias are Muslim same as Sunnis.”
Just because a person was allowed in Mecca or any other Muslim countries does not mean that they were Muslims who have correct Islamic Creed. The Nation of Kufr leader, Louis Farrakhan was allowed to make hajj several times. The people who grant visas do not inquire about the person’s aqeedah. Crusaders, Jews and Mushrikeen are allowed to enter the Arabian Peninsula even though the Prophet (pbuh) started expelling them before he died. Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra) continued expelling them afterwards. Just because you see certain things being allowed and done does not make it correct.
So this is not sufficient proof that the allowance of the Shia’s entry into the Muslim lands or mosques makes them Muslims.
Not all Shia’s are Kuffar. The Zaydi Shia’s are considered Muslims. But their political position is that the Caliph should come from the descendants of ‘Ali (ra). The Rafidah Shia’s are not Muslims because of their incorrect aqeedah. Just to mention a few of their beliefs: They curse the Prophet’s (pbuh) wives and his companions. They elevate their imams to the level of Allah which is major shirk which cancels one’s shahada. They also fabricate hadith.
Here are some sayings from the classical scholars regarding the Rafidah Shia’s.
Imam Ash-Shafi'i: On one occasion Imam Shafi'ee said concerning the Shia, "I have not seen among the HERETICS a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidi* Shia." and on another occasion he said; "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except for the Raafidi* Shia, because they invent ahaadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion." (Minhaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah)
Imam Abu Haneefah: It is reported that often Imam Abu Hanifah used to repeat the following statement about the Raafidi Shia; "WHOEVER DOUBTS WHETHER THEY ARE DISBELIEVERS HAS HIMSELF COMMITTED DISBELIEF."
Imam Malik: Once when asked about the Raafidi Shia, Imam Malik said; "Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars."
I love to see you confused MR PAUL. I will leave you confused.
fefee, You might be able to find a female scholar but I do not know any. I have another suggestion for you. If you are a new Muslim please avoid getting into such things. Sunnis will tell you the faults about shias and vice-a-versa. Follow the basic teachings of Islam which you must know. Rest is not so important at least at this stage.
I disagree to anyone who thinks QL is a good place to discuss religion and particularly differences among different sects. These are the people who want to divide Muslims. Shais and sunnies are Muslims if moderate and if they follow the basic teachings of Islam. Do not bring the historical events into the religion. History has many versions.
weren't so quick to want to shut down whole threads. If someone has used foul language or been really insulting that person's posts should be moderated. I still support QL as a good place to learn about other people and how they think.
That said, I think Speed is one of the QLers who lives his Islam in his deeds and words. I would never question that. This is one of the reasons why anyone who wants to identify and label who is or is not a Muslim should realize they are usurping God's role.
fefee, Seems like you have closed this thread but still I would like to suggest you to consult a scholar, preferably a sunni scholar who will be able to help you in knowing the real differences. There are differences and they are the major ones. Here at QL you cannot have an intellectual and serious discussion. All are here for fun and people with less knowledge and no knowledge are the ones who reply first to such issues. There are many books that you can read on this topic. I can suggest you the names if you are interested. Let me know.
thanks victory.i have visited a few website concerning this topic, or islam in general. one thing ive realized is that, not every site explain the same details and thats why i considered bringing it up on ql.
i was also told on one of these islamic forums that"real" muslims are not allow to divide their religion and thats why some people get sensitive about such topic.
anyway,thanks a lot to every one who contributed to this thread and thanks for the positive likewise the negative responds.
This issue is not as simple as it seems. Neither speedbahi's comments nor your website can straighten it up. There is a lot more to it. QL is not a right place to raise such issues. Points raised by Speed on schools of jurisprudence and 'no difference' among them does not fit in this frame.
VICTORY, why shouldnt we discuss islam on ql? i dont see any problem in this matter, because there are lot of non muslims here on ql who might appreciate such discussion. so why not share your knowledge, in order for others like me to benefit?
But there are some who due to their lack of knowledge, goes against the BASIC teachings of Islam are for sure disliked by Allah and His Messenger Mohammad (PBUH).
May Allah show them The Right Path (Seratal Mustaqeem). (Ameen)
Those MUSLIMS who consider Shias as Non Muslim, they are just simply Deaf, Dumb and Blind.
If shias are not Muslims, they would have not allowed in Makkah or Madinah in first place. They would have not allowed to worship in ANY MOSQUE in ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY.
This proves that Sunni Scholars in Saudia, Egypt and other Muslim Countries belives that Shias are Muslim same as Sunnis.
The fact is that there is no difference between Shia and Sunnis in basic beliefs or in the worship they offer. There are certainly differences of detail...
BUT such differences exist between Sunni Schools of Islamic Law and no one suggest they are different in any way. There are four orthodox sects or schools of jurisprudence among the Sunni Muslims .... Hanafiyah (followers of Imam Abu Hanifah), Shafiyah (followers of Imam Ash-Shafii), Malakiyah (followers of Imam Malik) and Hanbaliyah (followers of Imam Ahmed Bin Hanbal).
So one should understand that if we point OUR finger on someone we should not forget that our own 3 fingers are pointing back to us. Thus raising a huge question?
In short, in my opinion, the reason for the spread of sects must be that people have abandoned the Quran in favour of the opinions of their leaders they idolise.
I feel sympathize for those who never strive for Unity, Love and Peace.
If you were the real Rafsanjani, I would give you a piece of my mind right now. But since you are an impostor (probably ashamed of your own nationality), I don't even bother to reply your foolish comments about me and my country.
There is something quite pathetic about someone who is banned repeatedly and goes to the trouble to keep making new accounts and screen names. Seems he and vermin are well matched.
as you know I have sincere respect to you and your ideas.
With regard to discussion, yes we could discuss in any length any topic about what we practise in islam but when the matter of faith been pops up and challenged, it is absolutely not acceptable to put in discussion.
As you very well aware about Quran is the first base of our faith. While Shia community has badly distorted the basic faith of Islam....again referring to SEFRI's comment on the first page.
but that also includes learning how other people think and one can gain valuable information from many sources. This BS attitude that ONLY the so-called SCHOLARS are allowed to speak and have the ONLY keys to knowledge just doesn't wash with me.
In other words, victor, don't expect me to stop discussing things on QL or anywhere else. But feel free to stop adding your ideas or opinions.
Habibi - Hmm.. NIce.. those where the -ves of sticking emotionally to the group you belong.. or as I say.. label you stick on your head and dance for it for rest of your life...
But being attached to your groups too is important..
for a culture to survive... people need to love their culture.. else it wont grow...
The children wont follow the rituals.. and again it ll come down to the Jungle rules.. may be this time we ll be equipped with little more better weapons.. thts it...
And how in this world is it possible... to love your Group.. but still respect the fact tht others love their group too..
One I know is be with them...
Eat with them.. be with them... they are as stupid as you are... they are as smart as you are..
they love their land ... language.. beliefs.. food.. as much as you do yours... you ll know.. all this is fake.. but necessary ...
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
is usually the same as the reason that "Shia is the right path":
"Because I am (Sunni / Shia) and so is my group - and of course *me and my group are always right.*"
Take the average Sunni and Shia and switch their family and life backgrounds, and they will also automatically switch their opinions on who is on the right path, as again *me and my group are always right*.
The Arabs call that "Jahilliyah," and those who have it the worst today are those who use that word the most.
Ironically, Islam starts with the opposite realization, that: *me and my group are nothing.*
Once this idol is broken and the self is conquered and one stops living an illusion, then it is possible to know the Real and align yourself with Him.
Before this, other discussions are just bogus noisy internet fighting and chatter.
If I have mistaken you for someone who gives a shit, then the above is, of course, not relevant to you. But you can't blame me for the mistake, since if you don't give a shit, I wonder why you spend so much time posting here.
- Objective is LEARNING then there are other places to learn and discuss.
as I tried to explain that it will openup a huge can of worms / Pandora box....age old issues, conflicts and differences.
Please read Sefri's comment above....there are several different (over 100k wrong hadees) theories attached; and I am 100% sure none of us at QL are competent enough to clarify and justify the facts.
At the end we will conclude that Shia's belief making them as 'non-believers' and they are NOT muslims.
So again repeating.......NOT A RIGHT PLACE TO DISCUSS
sunni, means a person who believes in allah(swt) and prophet muhammed(pbuh), following the sunnah of prophet(pbuh), and also as well respect ali, hassan , hussain etc,
shia, they also have the same basic belief, but they give more importance to the 12 imams, people from prophets family, some shias are extremist and associated properties which can only be associated with Allah to these imams,
check out for bilal philips video on shia on youtube,
based on our opinions and best judgments. We simply state that this is what we believe or think, and acknowledge that we don't speak for all Muslims or Allah.
In fact, I am really, really turned off when Muslim like you try to shut down discussion. Discussion airs ideas and is the only way to learn and understand each other. But I do recognize that many Muslims prefer to go along with group-think and never allow anyone to question anything. That's fine for you Victor. But don't force that on everyone else.
we are allowed to think dear but we shall not describe about Islam, as per what one understands.
In such cases when we are not very sure it is advisable to keep quiet and refer it to a islamic scholar or give reference to an authentic islamic book.
Shia and Sunni's.....
The topic is an age old issue, huge conflicts and practised islam in different ways, due to Passage of Time.
There were many sects from Shia's also formed such as Bohra and Khoja communities....following certain Personalities like Dr. Syedna Burhanuddin and HH Aga Khan respectively; which is again not allowed in Islam, the way their beliefs are. Better to close the chapter here and shall not indulge in the debate.....as said earlier NOT A RIGHT PLACE TO DISCUSS.
majidmajidi, did u read the tread about hijacking forum today, if not i kindly advice u to do so. mod is been stricht on hijAckers these days, better be careful on what you post other wise ^YOU WILL BE ......
majidmajidi i think its time for you to please leave this thread.
you were the one acusing me of been a troll.do you reread what you wrote? if not i kindly ask u to please do so, cus you will at least realize all the problem uve been tring to cause on this tread.
sorry i have nothing against anyone because each one has his own belief, but still shia are misunderstood by others. if you want to know more about shia try asking a shiaa sheikh, anyway to cut it short we are not "moshrikeen" as others claim. go search in the right place.
i did not go into details because i am respecting other opinions and dont want to hurt anyone.
That's why it is so disappointing to read other Muslims telling us not to think; or worse, that we do not have the right to do so.
I think most converts do think long and hard about Islam. After all, we make a conscious decision to become Muslims (as opposed to those born into Muslim families in Muslim-dominated countries).
on the forum, but there are also many Shi'a in Qatar (many from iran, Pakistan and Lebanon), as well as our Shi'a QLErs who I respect very much (like Speed). As someone who has been repeatedly bashed for not being a "true Muslim", it is not for me to turn around and do the same to somebody who is Shi'a. In the end, it is God who knows who pleases Him and who does not. The best we can do is try to be good people and represent Islam in a positive light. How could we reject all the good that someone does simply because they are of a different sect?
However, as usual, I speak for myself only and I know many, many Sunni and Shi'a Muslim who do not share my views.
Wasn't Allahs first command to the Prophet (saw) "Iqrah"? (Read)
Aren't we encouraged to seek knowledge?
I find it so discouraging that we are at such a low point historically as Muslims because too many of us have been raised not to think for ourselves or question anything. Is it any wonder that we are so removed from true Islam?
I'm not surprised at all to see tom/huck/bode/majid stepping up (and sucking up) to praise you. Very, very sad state.
and in most places today as a "sect" separate from Sunni. Actually, tasawwuf is the word. "Sufism" is not an Arabic word and the "ism" in English always connotes a ideological division like "communism" etc. defined by simply the holding of certain opinions. The real word "tasawwuf" refers to the discipline in traditional Sunni Islam of closely checking and working to improve your inner spiritual life by means of the Sharia. It is the inner aspect of Islamic life which outer rules and forms are intended to purify (while purifying the inner conversely also purifies the outer). Now it has been misunderstood due to some folks through history who had nothing to do with using its name falsely. Also, there are those in modern times who want to deny any concern of Islam with spirituality. They decided that Marx was right, that religion was the 'opium of the masses' - so they wanted to turn Islam into a religion without a spiritual dimension that would distract Muslims from the all important task of competing with fascist modern western regimes for power and re-establishing an Arab empire. So, many Muslims nowadays confuse this project for an Arab empire with Sunni Islam. But Sunni Islam has an inner dimension about purifying the heart, and without this there is nothing but an empty shell. Alot of the atrocious stuff going on nowadays among Muslims is from abandoning this inner dimension. Or, it is from others claiming to embrace the inner while abandoning the outer (and this is just hypocrisy). Anyhow, the word 'sufi' does not matter. If you think the word means something else, then use a different word. But the point is there is an inner spiritual dimension of Islam, which is an essential part of Sunni Islam.
if you want to read something scholarly about Islamic history is "The Venture of Islam" by Hogdson. As a Muslim, of course I understand the events to be all part of the Divine plan, so I will naturally disagree with Hodgson's metaphysical interpretation of the history. However, he gives a fair account and analysis of the events themselves, and takes Muslim sources seriously, and is very detailed.
For Muslim sources on history, you need to look at classical scholars like al-Tabari, ibn Ishaq, etc. Most (but not all) modern Muslim sources are unfortunately lacking scholarly rigor and integrity, as they are primarily defensive and / or propagandistic.
The Sunnis consider the entire group of Sahaba (the companions of the Prophet Muhammad) collectively as a source of religious knowledge. This is because they were each taught, and their characters trained and shaped by the Prophet's divinely inspired knowledge and character. From this group, knowledge of Islam has been passed down generation to generation. Of course, with each passing generation, we get further from the Prophet, the source of revelation. But, we aim to stay 'plugged in' to Divine guidance by keeping close to the sources which have been passed down from the Sahaba. These Sahaba were several, each having his or her own unique qualities, and many spread out around the world and faced different challenges in guiding Muslims where they went, as did their inheritors. So, there is a lot of variety in details under the big Sunni tent, but it is Sunni by being linked to the Sahaba and accepting them all as sources of knowledge of the Sunna of the Prophet.
Now there was some disagreement about issues of succession after the death of the Prophet and also how to respond to the competing demands of justice and unity in the face of some events. Islam was never a utopia, without problems. Some of the Sahaba supported Abu Bakr and Omar, and some supported Ali as the Prophets successor. However, both sides were Sahaba. Therefore, IT IS FALSE that the difference between Sunni and Shia is based on who supported Ali and who supported Abu Bakr.
The Shia are distinct from Sunni by one main factor: they reject all or most of the Sahaba who did not support Ali as untrustworthy as sources of religious knowledge. That is the major difference. After that, different theological divisions multiplied among the Shia. However, most of these things people are saying, accusing Shia of worshipping Ali as God and so on, are not true; but they are hoisting something that was done by a small extreme minority onto all of the Shia. It would be like relating al-Qaeda practice to all of the Sunnis. Anyhow, do not believe most of what Sunnis and Shia today say about each other. Most people talk without knowing and do not care about the truth.
believe in things BLINDLY and we do not give a second thought or to do self study on Islam.
Non of the above has given facts or true reasons except some true indications by PM and Victor.
There is no major differences in Shia or Sunni. The true follower of Islam consider Shias and Sunnis as brothers in Islam.
Their God (Allah) is same, Quran is same, They both believe the Prophet Mohammad (PBHU) is the Last Prophert of Allah. They both perform Haj and Celebrate Eid.
I feel sorry for those with such lack of knowledge. They just listen from one and forward the same to others without varifying the details from any Senior Muslim Scholars.
Today, what is happening in the Muslim world is the reason of such people who follows other people BLINDLY and act accordingly.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
muhammadonly,iam very sorry if i have cause any offence to you or any body else.
i have read dozens of thread about islam and other religions here on ql and there were always many people writing lot of comments to prove that islam is the right religion to follow.
I honestly didt know about the division between muslims till i came to the middle east. of course i watched the news back home and there was always some fight between shia muslims and sunny or what ever. but the question is, did i REALLY understand what shia and what sunni was at the time? not until i married a muslim, who explain some details.of course hubbi will tell me that the part of muslim which hes from, is the right way.what matter to me is to hear the opinion from both sides of muslims base on their understanding from the teaching of islam.
i didt know that people whould be so sensitive if some one ask a simple details question about their religion.
what shock me is that people would post 10 pages when it came to a discussion between islam and other religions, but now to explain a simple fact,among muslims them self, seems to be so difficult, to some users.
Christianity, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness etc, think they have devine entry into heaven, but Islam too has different "sects" that believe they are the only way to the here after....
Have no idea why we cannot all just believe we serve 1 God!
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
in Iraq, it only follows that the Shiites are the ruling power since they are the majority there, am i right? the Sunnis (who are the minorities) just happen to control power before because Saddam happens to be one. and of course the Shiites will be aligning with Iran because of this same identity and the US know this and that's why they want a reformist to win in the election. but i am getting far from the topic:-)
As our prophet Mohammad was set to be the last messenger, it was decided by God that his sons dies, because if they remained alive they would be prophets (our belief).
Some one may say but God could have given him only daughters, well I will say yes but maybe God wanted to teach our prophet patience.
MD.. The Prophet Mohammed blood line came from his daughters? Not that he did not have any son, all of his son died when they were young. Now for all the beleivers Is Allah saying that in Islam woman is more important than man? Just a thought to provoke thinking?
It a bit like the Divinci Code and the Blood Line of the Christ still exists?
Question: What is the meaning of the following Hadith: "My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. All of them will be in the Hell-Fire except for one sect"?
Who is that sect? And will the seventy-two sects live forever in [the] Fire, as the Mushrik will or not? And does the term 'Ummah' of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) apply to those who follow him as well as to those who do not, or is it to the former only?
Answer: What is meant by the term 'Ummah' in this Hadith is the Ummah of response which shall be divided into seventy-three sects; seventy-two of which are deviant who practice innovated religious practices that do not constitute apostasy. Each shall be tortured in accordance to its innovations, and deviation, except for those whom Allaah pardons and forgives. Their final abode will be Paradise. The only sect that will be safe is Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah, who adhere to the Sunnah of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and hold fast to what he and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) were holding. It is they about whom the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said: "A group of my Ummah shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them, and do not support them, until the death or until the Day of Resurrection." [1]
As for those whose innovation casts them out of Islam, they belong to the Ummah of invitation (mankind at large) not the Ummah of response. They shall remain in the Hell-Fire forever, and this is the most valid opinion.
It is also said that the term 'Ummah' in this Hadith means the Ummah of invitation, which is a general term including all those to whom the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was sent (i.e., mankind) those who believe and those who do not believe. Whereas the term 'the saved sect' is the Ummah of response, which strictly applies to those who believe in the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), trustfully, and die on this condition. This is the sect that will be safe from [the] Fire; either by prior punishment or without prior punishment, and their final abode will Paradise.
Sunna or Sunni is not a sect. The word Sunna refers to Muslims who followed Prophet Mohd words and actions, in addition to Quran which our main source.
Being the Prohpet followers does not classify us as a sect. We are simply Muslims. Where as the followers of the Prophet's relatives or friends can be classified as a sect.
Both Sunni and Shia Muslims believe their own particular religion is the 'real one', and that the other has falsehoods. There are more Sunni Muslim followers, therefore you will get more people saying Sunni is the correct path.
But to be honest, there is no real Islam. Even if the Quran is God's own words, it is now being read by people, and no matter how much we think we know what a sentence means, we are human, and we are fallible.
This is my opinion from what I understand and from my studying of Shias and their disputes with Sunnahs.
It is very hard for a non-Muslim to understand the real differences between Shia and Sunnah.
Some Shia groups are close to Sunnah beliefs and have a lot in common, but these are a minority and are themselves rejected by the majority of Shia groups enough to be considered traitors.
The Shia believe that the real prophet Allah wanted was Ali (prophet Mohammed's cousin) and that the angel Allah sent his message with (Gabriell) betrayed his mission and sent it to Mohammed (Not by mistake as many think).
They believe that the holy family of Ali (which includes Mohammed) are sacred, perfect and can never sin or mistake in general. They call them "Aal Al-Beit"
They especially believe that 12 members of the holy family are so sacred and holy that they posses powers resembling those of God (Allah). Many of the extreme groups believe that these twelve members (called the "12 A-Emma" meaning the 12 Imams) control the universe, decide the final day, who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. They practically make them the ultimate power of this universe!
This is the biggest contradiction Shias have with Sunnahs who believe only in the one ultimate immortal power of God (Allah) who does not share this with any other creature whatsoever.
The Shia believe that 11 holy members of the sacred family have already passed away and one is still to come and save the world.
Their dispute with the Sunnah begins as early as the prophet was wrongly appointed in their point of view.
They also consider that all Mohammed's friends and colleagues were betrayers except for a small number of individuals (this means that almost 125,000 colleagues of Mohammed are considered betrayers and non-believers who repelled from Islam except for 6 to 10 individuals in their point of view).
Even their rituals are different from Sunnah's!
They generally do not consider the holy pilgrimage to Mecca, but to the tomb of Al-Hussain (Ali's son and one of the 12 holy Imams). Some of them refuse to pray unless they have a portion of sand from Al-Hussains tomb area to land his/her head on.
They consider that the Quran we have between our hands is false and that the real Quran is the one Fatima (the daughter of Mohammed and wife to Ali) had hidden.
In their opinion, it is very different to the one the Sunnah have.
Plenty of Shias don't reveal this belief because of the following:
They have "Al-Tukia" principal which means to behave and do something while believing the opposite. They can treat you well and consider you a friend while believing you are their enemy and go on with this for a life time.
It is considered part of their religion.
Sunnah's consider this as Hippocratic.
They are famous in this to gain followers and have succeeded in many parts to expand their powers. This is nowadays a political art of the Iranian government.
Examples of expansion are: Iraq, Pakistan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar.
Here in Qatar, I believe the government is trying to reduce their influence and authority as much as possible after having seen what they can do when they get to authority. The biggest example is Iraq.
In Iraq, the Shias have taken the ruling part and are now an ally to Iran. The friendship with the Amercians is only a "Tukia" means to get authority and kick out the Sunnah from ruling.
This may sound strange, but only time will tell what I am claiming here...
*********************************
When dealing with others: Never judge a person from his first act
When dealing with myself: You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
disagreeing with Christians and vigorously prosecuting their case about why Christians are on the wrong path, don't want to speak honestly and openly about this issue. Intriguing, isn't it?
The reality is that many Sunni Muslims believe that Shi'a are not "real" Muslims or are seriously misguided because of certain beliefs and practices. I personally am Sunni, but I have some Shi'a friends. Even so, we generally don't discuss religion because I have some serious issues with their ideas and practices, which I view as innovation (bi'dah); and they view me in the same manner.
The biggest split is about the succession after the death of the Prophet (saw). Shi'a believe that Muslim should be led by descendants from the Prophet (saw) and Sunni believe that leadership should come from those most knowledgeable (bloodline not being important). Furthermore, It comes down to divided attitudes towards Abu Bakar (ra), the Prophet's close friend, confidante and father-in-law; and Ali (ra), the Prophet's son-in-law and cousin.
I like this article on the subject: http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm
i read about it and have some idea on whats the basic differace between the shia and sunni muslims.
i was only asking to know what the muslims them self think and how many of them realy know. i have heard a lots of time when shia critisized sunni and vise verser.
my question again why do they hate each other? why do they fight against each other. only asking to know personal opinion.
ps.sorry if ive put out another religious thread. i know people are bored of religious topics.
Some Shia for example thinks that the our prophet Mohammad was choosen by mistake to be the last messenger, they think that the messenger should have been Ali.
when shias are in any trouble they say "ya ali" instead of saying "ya ALLAH" for help.this is shirk and we can only call ALLAH for help not any person who ever he or she is and shirk is an unforgiveable sin.
this is a simple example for knowing who is following the right islam
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k
disagree with you and sorry to say your comments are baseless.
People like you are basically the main reason for destroying the image of Islam due to your hatred comments.
If you are a true Muslim, you must know that you should not speak if your don't know about it. Because based on your wording you are diverting others minds and taking them to the path Hell, instead of Sirat-tul-Mustaqeem.
May Allah Guide you and all other who have similar thinking.
please watch this vid
U know whats funny all this Sunnis are contradicting themselves, and they are not shia yet they claim to know what shias belive and think, i have a qustion would u rather follow the freinds or the faimly themselves of the prphet? well the shias follow the faimly, i also would like to know all u say that abu bakir is the right caliph after the prophet but non of u are smarter than the prophet when abu bakir propsed to the daughter of the prophet he refused (prophet) yet when my imam ali proposed the prophet said yes, when the prophet first proposed islam imam ali was the the first to stand by him, he was the bravest from all the men and yet he was a child at the time.
Please add (pbuh)after prophet and (a.s) after imam ali
Thank you
Straight Arrow....That was perfect. God bless you.
Shia simply diverted from it.
Shia has many sub beliefs which contradicts with Islam beliefs.
Read this again please
They both under go Islam because they both believe in one God but Shi'ite are having many things against pure Islam principles, for example Islam asks you to look for help from God only and never put a partner, Shi'ite put a partner for God and that partner is called Ali (God bliss him) who was one of the friends of our prophet Mohammed PBUH, and also some Shi'ite think that God made a mistake by letting our prophet Mohammed PBUH be the messenger of God after Jesus and Moses, some Shi'ite think that Ali should have been the messenger.
Also Shi'ite think that God has a representitive on this earth.
Shi'ite have what is called joy marriage where the girl can let her self married to any person for 1 min, 1 hour, 1 day what ever and not necessary any paper or parents.
There are many other things in which Shi'ite differ from Sunni.
At the end if pure Islam is on the right, then I can say that Many Shi'ite are walking left and going far away from it and Sunni Muslims are trying to aprropach and come closer to the pure Islam.
Speed... WHO ARE YOU to tell me not to post. Everyone is expressing his or her thoughts. So instead of mocking me either put something dealing with the topic or get the hell out.
don't post something you don't know much about.
I hope this helped.
Sunni is the correct one. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught us the way of Islam which is how the Sunni's practice it. After the Prophet Muhammads (PBUH) death Abu Bakir was the next in line to be the Muslim leader as ordered. The Shia's believed the ALI should have been the leader therefore started this whole split up. Plus Islam is about PEACE.. the Shia'as whip themselves because they killed Ali and they are punishing themselves. That isn't Islam. As Muslims we do not torture our own ENEMIES.. let alone ourselves! And last but not least. The word "Sunni" means "one who follows the traditions of the Prophet." I hope this helped.
well at least now his question is answered
Then how can you explain that Sunni people in Iran get the worse jobs compared to Shi'ite, even if some of these sunni people are more qualified than some Shi'ite?
Dear your information/knowledge is totally wrong. I do not want to say anything more over this forum.
hi there brothers and sisters, i'm confused? is Shi'ite and Sunni differs in belief regarding the religion of islam? please advise...tnx
They both under go Islam because they both believe in one God but Shi'ite are having many things against pure Islam principles, for example Islam asks you to look for help from God only and never put a partner, Shi'ite put a partner for God and that partner is called Ali (God bliss him) who was one of the friends of our prophet Mohammed PBUH, and also some Shi'ite think that God made a mistake by letting our prophet Mohammed PBUH be the messenger of God after Jesus and Moses, some Shi'ite think that Ali should have been the messenger.
Also Shi'ite think that God has a representitive on this earth.
Shi'ite have what is called joy marriage where the girl can let her self married to any person for 1 min, 1 hour, 1 day what ever and not necessary any paper or parents.
There are many other things in which Shi'ite differ from Sunni.
At the end if pure Islam is on the right, then I can say that Many Shi'ite are walking left and going far away from it and Sunni Muslims are trying to aprropach and come closer to the pure Islam.
check below link to download the eBook....
http://www.sunnidawateislami.net/contents/online_publications/english/excellence_of_muharram_and_imam_husain/
After reading this book many differences between Shia and Sunnis, one could easily identify!
Peace
EXCELLENCE OF MUHARRAM AND IMAM HUSSAIN
Zikr-e-Shahadat (poetry by Hasan Raza Khan)
History Behind the Islamic Calender
The Four Sacred Months
How to Welcome Muharram-ul-Haram
Excellence of Imam Hussain (RadiyAllahu Anhu)
Imam Hussain in the Holy Quran
Yazeed and the Events Before Karbala
The Battle of Karbala
A Moment for Thought
The Fate of the Killers
Imam Hussain Lives Forever
What is Aashura?
The Gatherings of Muharram
True Love....
Stone....good information covered in this forum and should be closed for no more postings...
Some people could not have enough of a fight. Indeed interesting but this thread should be transferred to the religious teaching group
Differance between shia and sunni muslims
By fefee on Mon, 15/06/2009 - 6:40pm
hussam_qatar
USE " RELIGIONS TEACHING GROUP"
For God's sake why r you pulling this thread out of it's grave?
RIP
Yalla!
we the shias do not believe Ali 2 b a messenger ... Imam Ali was the succesor of Prophet Muhammed(it wasnt Abu Baker) ... why did Prophet marry his beloved daughter Fatimah to Imam Ali ... because Allah subhanawatallah sayd let the noor get with noor !! and also ... only a real successor wud sleep on the prophet's bed !!
we believe in The AHLULBAYT(ALI AND HIS GENERATION AND HIS WIFE) because if u go and see u sunni's references and shia references then u will see wen Prophet MJuhammad was about 2 die...he sayd i leave behind 2 things 4 the Ummah
1.The holy Quran
2.The Ahlul Bayt(Imam Ali,Fatimah Zehra,Imam Hussan,Imam Hussain and his 9 sons ... !!! )
May Allah give you victory.
Jayzek Allah khair.
What is the diffrence between a Persian cat and a Siamese cat?
the thread will divert from Muslims Sects of Shia Sunni to....Muslims Faiths Vs Other religions.
Lets say about Islam has certain basic principles which are required to be accepted whole heartedly, understand and need to be followed in certain ways like Law of Marriage, inheritance, contracts, etc, etc called 'Sharia'.
The prime requirement is Faith and secondary are deeds (task)/ practising Islam, which are to be followed as per eligibility like prayers, Fasting, Zakat, Sacrifice and Hajj.
Further breakdown of the 'Faith' as follows:
1) Believe in Allah as ONLY GOD and his is ONE.
2) Believe in All HIS prophets and messengers, Angels and Jinns.....
3) Believe in Quran and All HIS Books (all books revealed on prior messangers).
4) So on..
The purpose of explaining above is to bifurcate between Faith (Imaan) and Deeds (Aamal) practising Islam.
Please note Imaan is The Foundation, while deeds are like a building / a tower..which one could Build and Beautify as far as possible. If foundation is strong one could build a strong tower or vice-versa.
The major difference among Shia and Sunnis are on FAITH hence the issue. There are agreed and accepted differences.
While both sects knew the destination however follow the different path to reach the destination called Heaven / Paradise / Jannah (currently HIDDEN), this will be clarified only on the Day of Judgment..who was on Right and who was on Wrong Path.
*Till then live with Love, peace and Unity :-) Be good and do good deeds. Allah knows the Best!
VB - the path I choose shall depend on many factors...
Right and Wrong are relative terms....
If you agree to this...
Then all depends on where is the reference line....
Like I have said before....
If I am thirsty.. for me most important thing and the correct thing in the world is to drink water ...
Don tell me how important it is to have food 3 times a day...
If I believe my path is correct... there is a reason to believe so....
And if someone thinks I am on the wrong way...
Only one who has already committed tht mistake can tell me tht... else.. let me learn it the hard way...
If I don reach the destination I intend... I ll seek for the other way... or perceive harder on the previous one...
The destination matters so much... it really doesn matter much how one reaches there...
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Destination is firm, here we talk about the correct path which will take you there.....
hmm...
So at end of the day.. what matters ??
the destination we are traveling to... ??
Or the path we chose to reach there ?
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
they are wise.
All Sahaba's (Companions) were "Sunnis"; very first and basic Group which follows path of Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) while all others are dissects from Sunnis.
To answer your query, I will post in detail the incident of Karbala some other time, to support my statement.
In last one question arises.
Were Hazrat Ali or Imam Hussain Shia or Sunni??
that Shia's are wrong. Demonkrazy and Graywolf joined the debate.......
NOW wait and watch how many Shia's defending claims will come up.....Uhuhhhhhhhhhh PEOPLE LUV & ENJOY WATCHING COCK-FIGHT AT PUBLIC PLACES!
I personally feels without referring to the Islamic history one could not justify the claims. As told earlier none of Qler's are competent enough to debate on this most controversial topic, which is over 800 years old. It started during the tenure of Khulafa-e- Rashideen and the subsequent incident of KARBALA happened.....we all know who assasinated Hazrat Imam Hussain (RA) and why did KARBALA incident happened.
and Lastly ALLAH knows the BEST!
Being we are part of sunni group, shall follow what we have learnt from our Ulema's and let Shia follows what their belief and PLEASE close this issue, which brings disharmony and disunity among MUSLIM brotherhood.
As a newcomer I have been reading some of your past posts since our last discussion.
I take back the langley insinuation and have nothing but respect for you. As a sunni myself I find your responses all too similar to how I would have responded and there is no question in my mind about your sincerity and integrity.
If you read what I wrote, I said both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe they are the real Islam. Therefore try and get it in your heads, that there are Muslims, people who practice Islamic faith who think YOU are practicing a false religion. Who are you to think yours is the correct path? Who are you to think you know what God meant better than someone else?
In fact, who is any human to think they understand Gods words and intentions? If God is real then you are but an ant under his foot, and the best you can do to understand his words, is mediocre at best. You're a mere human, so get prostrating ant.
'Allah says ''if u want something, ask me directly''. but dont involve anyone in between.'
The bible too talks about praying directly to GOD - which is what I was taught, however Catholics pray to Mary, mother of God... see similairities with Sunnis and Shias?
Again I say, we all pray to 1 God in the end.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
Picture this..
The prophet Muhammed (PBUH) transmitted all the knowledge that he had and left nothing hidden from us.
Now, The group that existed at the time of the prophet with the prophet are the true followers.
The kalima and the concepts that the people at the time of the prophet held, is the right kalima and the right concept.
So now if you ask any shia whats the kalima that was preached and taught by the prophet and read by his companions its clear it will be 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet'
But but here is the catch...
The shia kalima is 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet and Ali(RA) is the wasee of Allah'
So now you ask the shia is this the kalima that the prophet taught ? the answer is No
Then you ask him is this the kalima that Ali(RA) read and entered into Islam or for that matter Fatima(RA) Hassan and Hussain(RAM), the plain simple answer is NO.
They all read 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed(PBUH)is his prophet and Ali(RA) is the wasee of Allah'
So you see akhi the sect whose kalima itself is flawed and man made how can they be on the correct path leave alone their other concepts
And with Allah is guidance.
so what are you a christian or jew or an aeithist?
so i advise you that if you don't know about something, then you should research and investigate about it. internet is a vast world . everything is available. but still if u dont have time for research and investigate, then please keep yr mouth shut. i think you are trying to be extra smart. well if u have questions on religion then i would love to give you the answers. no matter whatever religion you are from, i am confident enough to prove your religion wrong from your own religious book.
thanks and regards
translated by Dr. Bilal Philips
Warm welcome and greetings to knowledge of Islam. i am happy that u are eager to know more about Islamic topics.
yes there are a lot of differences in Shias and Sunnis.
the shias do almost everything like sunnis. at the time of Our Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W.S.), they was no such thing like Shias and Sunnis. there were only the people who did the exact thing that he did. But then after he had passed away, long time after that there emerged a group called Shias. they started stating Hazrat Ali as the most superior. All muslims know that no one on this planet can take the place of our Last Prophet (S.A.W.S), because he has all the qualities of all the prophets starting from Adam (the first man on earth). he was not educated as all the prophets before him but he had the most knowledge of them. Every prophet before him had praised Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W.S) and they knew that this personality had to come as the last Prophet. When Adam was created in Heaven, he saw this kalima (saying) LA ILAHA ILLALLAH, MUHAMMED UR RASOOL ALLAH on the entrance of ALLAH's kingdom. Hazrat Ali's body in not found anywhere because, when he was killed in the battle, he just leaned on his horse and the horse went somewhere. nobody knows which direction and where. this was indeed the master plan of Allah. if his body was found, the shias would have made his grave the place of worship. which is not accepted by Allah. the shias mix many things with Islam. some follow Muhammed (S.A.W.S) but some follow Hazrat Ali. we all love Hazrat Ali and Hassan and Hussain Hazrat Fatima. but the shias make these people the source of their acceptance of prayers. now here is the point which is hated by Allah. Allah says ''if u want something, ask me directly''. but dont involve anyone in between. some shias have Quran of 40 verses some have 30 . we sunnis follow 30 which was reveled to our Prophet (S.A.W.S). and hadith Bukhari, Muslim and tirmidhi. But shias have their own concept. and when the month of Moharram approaches they hurt their body. and do many rubbish things . at the day of Judgement each and every part of our body will speak and tell its history. we have no right to hurt ant part of our body as told by our Prophet (S.A.W.S)
i hope you got the thing that u needed.
if any queries pls pm me
PM said: This BS attitude that ONLY the so-called SCHOLARS are allowed to speak and have the ONLY keys to knowledge just doesn't wash with me.
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The truthful and sincere scholars are to be respected and followed. However the treacherous, deceitful government scholars are to be abhorred and disavowed from.
THE TRUTHFUL SCHOLARS ARE THE INHERITORS OF THE PROPHETS:
Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah will make him tread one of the paths towards Paradise. And the angels lower their wings out of contentment for the seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in the heavens and in the earth, even the fish in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the scholar over the worshipper is like the virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, for the prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a dirham for inheritance, but rather, they leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of inheritance).’” [1]
SPEED- “I feel sympathize for those who never strive for Unity, Love and Peace.”
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Is there an end to the struggle between good and evil, or between the supporters of Allah and supporter of the Shaytan?
How do we unite with those who curse the best we’ve ever had and the best of all people after Prophets and messengers? How do we rectify with those who curse Abi Bakr and Umar and Uthman (ra)?
How can we be close while they question the Quran? And never mind their denial because it is confirmed in their books. They even claim that a surah called “Surah Alwaleya” is part of the Quran. This exposes them and their lies.
How can unity be possible with those who believe in changing the book of Allah and allege that their Imams receive Holy books after the Quran, or with those who see that the Imams are higher than Prophethood?
TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD CAN NEVER CO-EXIST PEACEFULLY!
MissX-
“Both Sunni and Shia Muslims believe their own particular religion is the 'real one', and that the other has falsehoods. There are more Sunni Muslim followers, therefore you will get more people saying Sunni is the correct path.
But to be honest, there is no real Islam. Even if the Quran is God's own words, it is now being read by people, and no matter how much we think we know what a sentence means, we are human, and we are fallible.”
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Who are you as a non-Muslim trying to tell us “there is no real Islam?” Real Islam CERTAINLY does exist. It’s being fought for and defended everyday on the battlefield against the ZIO-CRUSADERS and APOSTATES in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, etc.
SPEED – “If shias are not Muslims, they would have not allowed in Makkah or Madinah in first place. They would have not allowed to worship in ANY MOSQUE in ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY.
This proves that Sunni Scholars in Saudia, Egypt and other Muslim Countries belives that Shias are Muslim same as Sunnis.”
Just because a person was allowed in Mecca or any other Muslim countries does not mean that they were Muslims who have correct Islamic Creed. The Nation of Kufr leader, Louis Farrakhan was allowed to make hajj several times. The people who grant visas do not inquire about the person’s aqeedah. Crusaders, Jews and Mushrikeen are allowed to enter the Arabian Peninsula even though the Prophet (pbuh) started expelling them before he died. Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra) continued expelling them afterwards. Just because you see certain things being allowed and done does not make it correct.
So this is not sufficient proof that the allowance of the Shia’s entry into the Muslim lands or mosques makes them Muslims.
SPEED- “Those MUSLIMS who consider Shias as Non Muslim, they are just simply Deaf, Dumb and Blind.”
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Not all Shia’s are Kuffar. The Zaydi Shia’s are considered Muslims. But their political position is that the Caliph should come from the descendants of ‘Ali (ra). The Rafidah Shia’s are not Muslims because of their incorrect aqeedah. Just to mention a few of their beliefs: They curse the Prophet’s (pbuh) wives and his companions. They elevate their imams to the level of Allah which is major shirk which cancels one’s shahada. They also fabricate hadith.
Here are some sayings from the classical scholars regarding the Rafidah Shia’s.
Imam Ash-Shafi'i: On one occasion Imam Shafi'ee said concerning the Shia, "I have not seen among the HERETICS a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidi* Shia." and on another occasion he said; "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except for the Raafidi* Shia, because they invent ahaadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion." (Minhaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah)
Imam Abu Haneefah: It is reported that often Imam Abu Hanifah used to repeat the following statement about the Raafidi Shia; "WHOEVER DOUBTS WHETHER THEY ARE DISBELIEVERS HAS HIMSELF COMMITTED DISBELIEF."
Imam Malik: Once when asked about the Raafidi Shia, Imam Malik said; "Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars."
I love to see you confused MR PAUL. I will leave you confused.
fefee, You might be able to find a female scholar but I do not know any. I have another suggestion for you. If you are a new Muslim please avoid getting into such things. Sunnis will tell you the faults about shias and vice-a-versa. Follow the basic teachings of Islam which you must know. Rest is not so important at least at this stage.
I disagree to anyone who thinks QL is a good place to discuss religion and particularly differences among different sects. These are the people who want to divide Muslims. Shais and sunnies are Muslims if moderate and if they follow the basic teachings of Islam. Do not bring the historical events into the religion. History has many versions.
weren't so quick to want to shut down whole threads. If someone has used foul language or been really insulting that person's posts should be moderated. I still support QL as a good place to learn about other people and how they think.
That said, I think Speed is one of the QLers who lives his Islam in his deeds and words. I would never question that. This is one of the reasons why anyone who wants to identify and label who is or is not a Muslim should realize they are usurping God's role.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Sunni scholar.
Why not consult a Shia scholar or any scholar ?
Surely a scholar is a scholar ?
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
double post
BTW the thread is still open, you are most welcom to post your comments
graywolf,
do you know where i can find a very good sholar, are there only male or is it posible to find a femal?
thanks in advance
action speaks louder than words
graywolf, thanks for your effort.
action speaks louder than words
....
fefee, Seems like you have closed this thread but still I would like to suggest you to consult a scholar, preferably a sunni scholar who will be able to help you in knowing the real differences. There are differences and they are the major ones. Here at QL you cannot have an intellectual and serious discussion. All are here for fun and people with less knowledge and no knowledge are the ones who reply first to such issues. There are many books that you can read on this topic. I can suggest you the names if you are interested. Let me know.
thanks victory.i have visited a few website concerning this topic, or islam in general. one thing ive realized is that, not every site explain the same details and thats why i considered bringing it up on ql.
i was also told on one of these islamic forums that"real" muslims are not allow to divide their religion and thats why some people get sensitive about such topic.
anyway,thanks a lot to every one who contributed to this thread and thanks for the positive likewise the negative responds.
cheers
fefee
action speaks louder than words
This issue is not as simple as it seems. Neither speedbahi's comments nor your website can straighten it up. There is a lot more to it. QL is not a right place to raise such issues. Points raised by Speed on schools of jurisprudence and 'no difference' among them does not fit in this frame.
would like all interested people to visit FANAR or use a website link
www.islamonline.net/
If you read all my posts and Speedbhai's comments, you got the answer to your first question.
VICTORY, why shouldnt we discuss islam on ql? i dont see any problem in this matter, because there are lot of non muslims here on ql who might appreciate such discussion. so why not share your knowledge, in order for others like me to benefit?
cheers
action speaks louder than words
UNITY (Brotherhood).....
But there are some who due to their lack of knowledge, goes against the BASIC teachings of Islam are for sure disliked by Allah and His Messenger Mohammad (PBUH).
May Allah show them The Right Path (Seratal Mustaqeem). (Ameen)
would have understood by NOW that
WE would like to strive for Unity, Love and Peace in OUR religion of ISLAM and avoid discussing controversial issues at QL.
Sorry Speedbhai!
My humble request to MOD to please stop anymore comments in this THREAD.
Peace at QL!
If moderate, both sunnies and shaias are muslim.
Those MUSLIMS who consider Shias as Non Muslim, they are just simply Deaf, Dumb and Blind.
If shias are not Muslims, they would have not allowed in Makkah or Madinah in first place. They would have not allowed to worship in ANY MOSQUE in ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY.
This proves that Sunni Scholars in Saudia, Egypt and other Muslim Countries belives that Shias are Muslim same as Sunnis.
The fact is that there is no difference between Shia and Sunnis in basic beliefs or in the worship they offer. There are certainly differences of detail...
BUT such differences exist between Sunni Schools of Islamic Law and no one suggest they are different in any way. There are four orthodox sects or schools of jurisprudence among the Sunni Muslims .... Hanafiyah (followers of Imam Abu Hanifah), Shafiyah (followers of Imam Ash-Shafii), Malakiyah (followers of Imam Malik) and Hanbaliyah (followers of Imam Ahmed Bin Hanbal).
Also, Wahhabis (Muwahhidun), Ahl alHadith, Ahl alSunnah, Ahmadiyyah, Qadians etc....
So one should understand that if we point OUR finger on someone we should not forget that our own 3 fingers are pointing back to us. Thus raising a huge question?
In short, in my opinion, the reason for the spread of sects must be that people have abandoned the Quran in favour of the opinions of their leaders they idolise.
I feel sympathize for those who never strive for Unity, Love and Peace.
If you were the real Rafsanjani, I would give you a piece of my mind right now. But since you are an impostor (probably ashamed of your own nationality), I don't even bother to reply your foolish comments about me and my country.
rafsanjani - Americans say Indians... Never heard a blackie with it...
The have a much better shade of black to call it black and fall in "Yo Mama " Trouble.. :)
200 Yrs of British Rule in India... hmm... true...
I am surprised by the fact they left.. jus coz guyz following Mahatma Gandhi walked across the country and said dudes go back...
And they did... lol...
It is Power of non-violence or British were weak ??
I ll give it to the 1st option...
About Americanization....
Ahhh... I don feed the trolls... you r lucky...
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
rafsanjani - Americans say Indians... Never heard a blackie with it...
The have a much better shade of black to call it black and fall in "Yo Mama " Trouble.. :)
200 Yrs of British Rule in India... hmm... true...
I am surprised by the fact they left.. jus coz guyz following Mahatma Gandhi walked across the country and said dudes go back...
And they did... lol...
It is Power of non-violence or British were weak ??
I ll give it to the 1st option...
About Americanization....
Ahhh... I don feed the trolls... you r lucky...
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Funny from a guy who was running around after American women on QL....
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
you know why india is lagging behind? and why you are still farmer?
coz after being slave of britons over 200 years, now you guys are, at lesat, mentally slave of americans...
do you think americans think you friend? never... they will always call you blacky indians.... poor edifis...
be humble
There is something quite pathetic about someone who is banned repeatedly and goes to the trouble to keep making new accounts and screen names. Seems he and vermin are well matched.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I just don't agree with you. When I became a Muslim I didn't give up my rights to free speech so I will continue to discuss things that interest me.
Furthermore, it is not for me to say who is the "real Muslim" -- whether Sunni or Shi'a. We do what we think is right and Allah know best.
Regards.
PM
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Is the process of naturalization so quick in Iran?
Mr. Paul is friends with the so-called Mafia you are whining about on every thread. You really are a weak, pathetic little man.... :-)
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
as you know I have sincere respect to you and your ideas.
With regard to discussion, yes we could discuss in any length any topic about what we practise in islam but when the matter of faith been pops up and challenged, it is absolutely not acceptable to put in discussion.
As you very well aware about Quran is the first base of our faith. While Shia community has badly distorted the basic faith of Islam....again referring to SEFRI's comment on the first page.
Trust you understand my situation and point,
Thanks
dont waste your time with some mafia of QL.... be careful of them....
be humble
hello sir, just taking my chances if u can help me find a job here in qatar.thanks..any secretarial, office position jobs..thanks
habib.......
you can't change it
but that also includes learning how other people think and one can gain valuable information from many sources. This BS attitude that ONLY the so-called SCHOLARS are allowed to speak and have the ONLY keys to knowledge just doesn't wash with me.
In other words, victor, don't expect me to stop discussing things on QL or anywhere else. But feel free to stop adding your ideas or opinions.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Habibi - Hmm.. NIce.. those where the -ves of sticking emotionally to the group you belong.. or as I say.. label you stick on your head and dance for it for rest of your life...
But being attached to your groups too is important..
for a culture to survive... people need to love their culture.. else it wont grow...
The children wont follow the rituals.. and again it ll come down to the Jungle rules.. may be this time we ll be equipped with little more better weapons.. thts it...
And how in this world is it possible... to love your Group.. but still respect the fact tht others love their group too..
One I know is be with them...
Eat with them.. be with them... they are as stupid as you are... they are as smart as you are..
they love their land ... language.. beliefs.. food.. as much as you do yours... you ll know.. all this is fake.. but necessary ...
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
is usually the same as the reason that "Shia is the right path":
"Because I am (Sunni / Shia) and so is my group - and of course *me and my group are always right.*"
Take the average Sunni and Shia and switch their family and life backgrounds, and they will also automatically switch their opinions on who is on the right path, as again *me and my group are always right*.
The Arabs call that "Jahilliyah," and those who have it the worst today are those who use that word the most.
Ironically, Islam starts with the opposite realization, that: *me and my group are nothing.*
Once this idol is broken and the self is conquered and one stops living an illusion, then it is possible to know the Real and align yourself with Him.
Before this, other discussions are just bogus noisy internet fighting and chatter.
If I have mistaken you for someone who gives a shit, then the above is, of course, not relevant to you. But you can't blame me for the mistake, since if you don't give a shit, I wonder why you spend so much time posting here.
But,
Don call it a Holy war...
This of course.. if you think.. out of your experience and wisdom on QL.... there are at least few.. who shall discuss rationally...
Jus express and don impose... and no fights happen
Share knowledge.... Not fake pride....
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
If discuss further will start A BIG HOLY WAR on QL....I am over and OUT!
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
the Ahl al-Sunnah are those who follow the Sahaabah and the path of the Salaf (the early generations of Islam).
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i want to learn until i die, if u have some knowledge then share it with me.
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- Objective is LEARNING then there are other places to learn and discuss.
as I tried to explain that it will openup a huge can of worms / Pandora box....age old issues, conflicts and differences.
Please read Sefri's comment above....there are several different (over 100k wrong hadees) theories attached; and I am 100% sure none of us at QL are competent enough to clarify and justify the facts.
At the end we will conclude that Shia's belief making them as 'non-believers' and they are NOT muslims.
So again repeating.......NOT A RIGHT PLACE TO DISCUSS
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
VB - I have few doubts....
On the topic.. for a change.. :)
Religion is something we practice or something which is mentioned in the holy scriptures like a most encrypted document.....
Everybody gets a different meaning depending upon his life condition.....
And tht should be the religion...
I mean to say is..
If I am hungry.... I ll see Happiness in Food.
If I am thirsty ... my destination shall be Water...
And Scriptures would say.. take what you want... (super hypothetical example)...
None is wrong in here... but not similar either...
One cannot say to a thirsty he is fool.. destination should be Food.. not water....
If you do not share your views with us. how in this earth are we suppose to expose to the beautiful side of the religion....
The nuts have guts to blabber opening.....
Why the wise are so "play safe" kinda people..
and reply if someone is coming up wit rational doubts...
Don answer stupid questions which shall be asked by pseudo-intellectuals to prove depth of their shallow knowledge.... or to stir a controversy....
I ll cover fire you ...lol.. don worry...
Its a terrorist's promise... and we live up to our words.... Not as lame as nice people.... :)
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Sunni Muslim is in the right path.
well, as per my knowledge,
sunni, means a person who believes in allah(swt) and prophet muhammed(pbuh), following the sunnah of prophet(pbuh), and also as well respect ali, hassan , hussain etc,
shia, they also have the same basic belief, but they give more importance to the 12 imams, people from prophets family, some shias are extremist and associated properties which can only be associated with Allah to these imams,
check out for bilal philips video on shia on youtube,
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i want to learn until i die, if u have some knowledge then share it with me.
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based on our opinions and best judgments. We simply state that this is what we believe or think, and acknowledge that we don't speak for all Muslims or Allah.
In fact, I am really, really turned off when Muslim like you try to shut down discussion. Discussion airs ideas and is the only way to learn and understand each other. But I do recognize that many Muslims prefer to go along with group-think and never allow anyone to question anything. That's fine for you Victor. But don't force that on everyone else.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
we are allowed to think dear but we shall not describe about Islam, as per what one understands.
In such cases when we are not very sure it is advisable to keep quiet and refer it to a islamic scholar or give reference to an authentic islamic book.
Shia and Sunni's.....
The topic is an age old issue, huge conflicts and practised islam in different ways, due to Passage of Time.
There were many sects from Shia's also formed such as Bohra and Khoja communities....following certain Personalities like Dr. Syedna Burhanuddin and HH Aga Khan respectively; which is again not allowed in Islam, the way their beliefs are. Better to close the chapter here and shall not indulge in the debate.....as said earlier NOT A RIGHT PLACE TO DISCUSS.
Thanks
i read the heading of the thread only, but didn't go through, coz most people over there were talking irrelevant things i seemed....
anyhow, i got your point....
hope, you would be careful also abour your posts...
majidmajidi, did u read the tread about hijacking forum today, if not i kindly advice u to do so. mod is been stricht on hijAckers these days, better be careful on what you post other wise ^YOU WILL BE ......
action speaks louder than words
Help people, the Allah ( God) will help you
If you need info about Shia, go to Shia Scholar and if you need info about Sunni, go to Sunni scholar. Don't do the opposite.
majidmajidi i think its time for you to please leave this thread.
you were the one acusing me of been a troll.do you reread what you wrote? if not i kindly ask u to please do so, cus you will at least realize all the problem uve been tring to cause on this tread.
cheers
fefee
action speaks louder than words
dumb head bery again with new user id mohammadonly
DHead.
Hmm...
Speed - Thanks...
But why people are forgetting Mujjahids...
Wht makes them diff ?????
At end of the day... Hardly anyone of us is praying God.. for his love..
But it is out of greed to get materialistic benefits... or out of fear to loose the ones which we are enjoying....
Doesn count as true religion for sure... :)
Todays religion is MONEY.. and Designation....
The religions are Science grads.. commerce grads... arts.... and tht too divides in many sects... :)
Believe it or not...
This is our religion/Society now....
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
sorry i have nothing against anyone because each one has his own belief, but still shia are misunderstood by others. if you want to know more about shia try asking a shiaa sheikh, anyway to cut it short we are not "moshrikeen" as others claim. go search in the right place.
i did not go into details because i am respecting other opinions and dont want to hurt anyone.
When you are typing on the internet THIS IS SHOUTING (writing in all capital letters)!
Nighty night son :-)
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
And yes, I did take it as quite impertinent in the manner you wrote it.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
it's a translation problem.
Anyway, little boy, I am old enough to be your mother so you needn't come on here and tell me what to do :-)
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
That's why it is so disappointing to read other Muslims telling us not to think; or worse, that we do not have the right to do so.
I think most converts do think long and hard about Islam. After all, we make a conscious decision to become Muslims (as opposed to those born into Muslim families in Muslim-dominated countries).
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Nothing Da Vinci Codey about that. The most important two names of Allah: al-Rahman and al-Rahim, both derive from the Arabic word for the womb.
Or, another scholar I read put in better: In Islam men and women can never be equal, because they are both superior.
on the forum, but there are also many Shi'a in Qatar (many from iran, Pakistan and Lebanon), as well as our Shi'a QLErs who I respect very much (like Speed). As someone who has been repeatedly bashed for not being a "true Muslim", it is not for me to turn around and do the same to somebody who is Shi'a. In the end, it is God who knows who pleases Him and who does not. The best we can do is try to be good people and represent Islam in a positive light. How could we reject all the good that someone does simply because they are of a different sect?
However, as usual, I speak for myself only and I know many, many Sunni and Shi'a Muslim who do not share my views.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
If I had not thought deeply and carefully, I would not have entered Islam.
I am quite shocked at the Muslims who say we should not think. Don't they read the Qur'an at all?
Wasn't Allahs first command to the Prophet (saw) "Iqrah"? (Read)
Aren't we encouraged to seek knowledge?
I find it so discouraging that we are at such a low point historically as Muslims because too many of us have been raised not to think for ourselves or question anything. Is it any wonder that we are so removed from true Islam?
I'm not surprised at all to see tom/huck/bode/majid stepping up (and sucking up) to praise you. Very, very sad state.
:-(
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
and in most places today as a "sect" separate from Sunni. Actually, tasawwuf is the word. "Sufism" is not an Arabic word and the "ism" in English always connotes a ideological division like "communism" etc. defined by simply the holding of certain opinions. The real word "tasawwuf" refers to the discipline in traditional Sunni Islam of closely checking and working to improve your inner spiritual life by means of the Sharia. It is the inner aspect of Islamic life which outer rules and forms are intended to purify (while purifying the inner conversely also purifies the outer). Now it has been misunderstood due to some folks through history who had nothing to do with using its name falsely. Also, there are those in modern times who want to deny any concern of Islam with spirituality. They decided that Marx was right, that religion was the 'opium of the masses' - so they wanted to turn Islam into a religion without a spiritual dimension that would distract Muslims from the all important task of competing with fascist modern western regimes for power and re-establishing an Arab empire. So, many Muslims nowadays confuse this project for an Arab empire with Sunni Islam. But Sunni Islam has an inner dimension about purifying the heart, and without this there is nothing but an empty shell. Alot of the atrocious stuff going on nowadays among Muslims is from abandoning this inner dimension. Or, it is from others claiming to embrace the inner while abandoning the outer (and this is just hypocrisy). Anyhow, the word 'sufi' does not matter. If you think the word means something else, then use a different word. But the point is there is an inner spiritual dimension of Islam, which is an essential part of Sunni Islam.
if you want to read something scholarly about Islamic history is "The Venture of Islam" by Hogdson. As a Muslim, of course I understand the events to be all part of the Divine plan, so I will naturally disagree with Hodgson's metaphysical interpretation of the history. However, he gives a fair account and analysis of the events themselves, and takes Muslim sources seriously, and is very detailed.
For Muslim sources on history, you need to look at classical scholars like al-Tabari, ibn Ishaq, etc. Most (but not all) modern Muslim sources are unfortunately lacking scholarly rigor and integrity, as they are primarily defensive and / or propagandistic.
Too many Sunnis in this forum, that just tells me, Qatar is Sunni in majority.
fefee is best that you research on particular subject then you summarize your full objective.
is this:
The Sunnis consider the entire group of Sahaba (the companions of the Prophet Muhammad) collectively as a source of religious knowledge. This is because they were each taught, and their characters trained and shaped by the Prophet's divinely inspired knowledge and character. From this group, knowledge of Islam has been passed down generation to generation. Of course, with each passing generation, we get further from the Prophet, the source of revelation. But, we aim to stay 'plugged in' to Divine guidance by keeping close to the sources which have been passed down from the Sahaba. These Sahaba were several, each having his or her own unique qualities, and many spread out around the world and faced different challenges in guiding Muslims where they went, as did their inheritors. So, there is a lot of variety in details under the big Sunni tent, but it is Sunni by being linked to the Sahaba and accepting them all as sources of knowledge of the Sunna of the Prophet.
Now there was some disagreement about issues of succession after the death of the Prophet and also how to respond to the competing demands of justice and unity in the face of some events. Islam was never a utopia, without problems. Some of the Sahaba supported Abu Bakr and Omar, and some supported Ali as the Prophets successor. However, both sides were Sahaba. Therefore, IT IS FALSE that the difference between Sunni and Shia is based on who supported Ali and who supported Abu Bakr.
The Shia are distinct from Sunni by one main factor: they reject all or most of the Sahaba who did not support Ali as untrustworthy as sources of religious knowledge. That is the major difference. After that, different theological divisions multiplied among the Shia. However, most of these things people are saying, accusing Shia of worshipping Ali as God and so on, are not true; but they are hoisting something that was done by a small extreme minority onto all of the Shia. It would be like relating al-Qaeda practice to all of the Sunnis. Anyhow, do not believe most of what Sunnis and Shia today say about each other. Most people talk without knowing and do not care about the truth.
believe in things BLINDLY and we do not give a second thought or to do self study on Islam.
Non of the above has given facts or true reasons except some true indications by PM and Victor.
There is no major differences in Shia or Sunni. The true follower of Islam consider Shias and Sunnis as brothers in Islam.
Their God (Allah) is same, Quran is same, They both believe the Prophet Mohammad (PBHU) is the Last Prophert of Allah. They both perform Haj and Celebrate Eid.
I feel sorry for those with such lack of knowledge. They just listen from one and forward the same to others without varifying the details from any Senior Muslim Scholars.
Today, what is happening in the Muslim world is the reason of such people who follows other people BLINDLY and act accordingly.
will believe what we believe as you will.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
muhammadonly,iam very sorry if i have cause any offence to you or any body else.
i have read dozens of thread about islam and other religions here on ql and there were always many people writing lot of comments to prove that islam is the right religion to follow.
I honestly didt know about the division between muslims till i came to the middle east. of course i watched the news back home and there was always some fight between shia muslims and sunny or what ever. but the question is, did i REALLY understand what shia and what sunni was at the time? not until i married a muslim, who explain some details.of course hubbi will tell me that the part of muslim which hes from, is the right way.what matter to me is to hear the opinion from both sides of muslims base on their understanding from the teaching of islam.
i didt know that people whould be so sensitive if some one ask a simple details question about their religion.
what shock me is that people would post 10 pages when it came to a discussion between islam and other religions, but now to explain a simple fact,among muslims them self, seems to be so difficult, to some users.
action speaks louder than words
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Christianity, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness etc, think they have devine entry into heaven, but Islam too has different "sects" that believe they are the only way to the here after....
Have no idea why we cannot all just believe we serve 1 God!
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
muhammadonly - it seems that you not only don't know what a troll is, but you're also racist. Nice.
sorry victory, but that was a reaction from sefri's post (bottom portion)...:-)
usapa na...
taking advantage of various sects (muslims) within Iraq.....ITS HIJACK from the main topic...Period now.
in Iraq, it only follows that the Shiites are the ruling power since they are the majority there, am i right? the Sunnis (who are the minorities) just happen to control power before because Saddam happens to be one. and of course the Shiites will be aligning with Iran because of this same identity and the US know this and that's why they want a reformist to win in the election. but i am getting far from the topic:-)
usapa na...
understand Islam from a islamic scholar.
The Only major difference between the 2 sects are Khilafat....
Sunni's first Khalifa after Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was Hazrat Abubakr Siddique, while Shia says it was with Hazrat ALI.
There were several differences in practicing Islam but QL is not a right place to discuss in detail.
rightly said.
As our prophet Mohammad was set to be the last messenger, it was decided by God that his sons dies, because if they remained alive they would be prophets (our belief).
Some one may say but God could have given him only daughters, well I will say yes but maybe God wanted to teach our prophet patience.
That is my thinking.
are real islam fefee, you dont need to wory about it.
:-)
UK, you are right. Ali was the son-in-law. I think that's what is meant.
MD.. The Prophet Mohammed blood line came from his daughters? Not that he did not have any son, all of his son died when they were young. Now for all the beleivers Is Allah saying that in Islam woman is more important than man? Just a thought to provoke thinking?
It a bit like the Divinci Code and the Blood Line of the Christ still exists?
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HE WHO DARES WINS
The best option is to accept all of them. Chances to pick the correct one is more, in turn closer towards god.
And one more thing: Shia believe that only blood-relatives of Muhammed (Ali) are legitime Khalifas. That's all.
the shouldnt fight because it is a person choice to beleive whatever he think is true
I think they dont know how to respect others thoughts and opinion
I talked to many shia and they denied what it is said against them
Muslim groups and sects:
1. Sunni 90% of all Muslim
2. Shia less than 10% of all Muslim
3. Khariji
4. Sufi
5. Druze
6. Alawi
7. Wahhabi
8. Qutbism
9. Nation of Islam
10. Black Muslim
Groups 3 to 10 account for less than 1% of all Muslims.
she is a troll???? just because you dont have an answer you will come up and say she is a troll?
Alot of Qlers know her and have meet her including me.
she asked about something so answer that
And she isnt asking if Allah is one or two
her question was about the difference btwn 2 biggest sect of Islam.
Allah is only ONE
even in Islam it exist! Lol!!!!
"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"
and dont comments on this thread anymore..Leave it to Allah..
forgot source :
1] Al-Bukhari nos. 71, 3641 and Muslim no. 1920.
The Permanent Committee
Source: Fatawa Islamiyah, Vol. 1
Question: What is the meaning of the following Hadith: "My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. All of them will be in the Hell-Fire except for one sect"?
Who is that sect? And will the seventy-two sects live forever in [the] Fire, as the Mushrik will or not? And does the term 'Ummah' of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) apply to those who follow him as well as to those who do not, or is it to the former only?
Answer: What is meant by the term 'Ummah' in this Hadith is the Ummah of response which shall be divided into seventy-three sects; seventy-two of which are deviant who practice innovated religious practices that do not constitute apostasy. Each shall be tortured in accordance to its innovations, and deviation, except for those whom Allaah pardons and forgives. Their final abode will be Paradise. The only sect that will be safe is Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah, who adhere to the Sunnah of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and hold fast to what he and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) were holding. It is they about whom the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said: "A group of my Ummah shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them, and do not support them, until the death or until the Day of Resurrection." [1]
As for those whose innovation casts them out of Islam, they belong to the Ummah of invitation (mankind at large) not the Ummah of response. They shall remain in the Hell-Fire forever, and this is the most valid opinion.
It is also said that the term 'Ummah' in this Hadith means the Ummah of invitation, which is a general term including all those to whom the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was sent (i.e., mankind) those who believe and those who do not believe. Whereas the term 'the saved sect' is the Ummah of response, which strictly applies to those who believe in the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), trustfully, and die on this condition. This is the sect that will be safe from [the] Fire; either by prior punishment or without prior punishment, and their final abode will Paradise.
u will get many answers from this question ?
but difficult to say which one is right ? as everyone has their own belief or understandings
Better to consult a scholar as Da has mentioned.
Cheers !!
The fight is to prove who follows the real Islam?
Obviously Sunni follows the real Islam....which is original while all other sects been disects from the parent!
But there is a mistake that most people commit.
Sunna or Sunni is not a sect. The word Sunna refers to Muslims who followed Prophet Mohd words and actions, in addition to Quran which our main source.
Being the Prohpet followers does not classify us as a sect. We are simply Muslims. Where as the followers of the Prophet's relatives or friends can be classified as a sect.
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There is no REAL ISLAM?
it means then there is no REAL Religion.
All I know is that Sunni and Shia are not that bad compared to the Wahabi's.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Both Sunni and Shia Muslims believe their own particular religion is the 'real one', and that the other has falsehoods. There are more Sunni Muslim followers, therefore you will get more people saying Sunni is the correct path.
But to be honest, there is no real Islam. Even if the Quran is God's own words, it is now being read by people, and no matter how much we think we know what a sentence means, we are human, and we are fallible.
Im just commenting on the state of play here.
You pair of bullies :P
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
So Paula should the the expert Mulla here :)
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keeps changing his religion every 5minutes thats when he find cons in one he converts to an other.
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how many shias have commented on this thread. right now i only see comments by sunnis only.
But the Royal family are Sunni, which is one of the reasons why theres so much rioting here.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
This is my opinion from what I understand and from my studying of Shias and their disputes with Sunnahs.
It is very hard for a non-Muslim to understand the real differences between Shia and Sunnah.
Some Shia groups are close to Sunnah beliefs and have a lot in common, but these are a minority and are themselves rejected by the majority of Shia groups enough to be considered traitors.
The Shia believe that the real prophet Allah wanted was Ali (prophet Mohammed's cousin) and that the angel Allah sent his message with (Gabriell) betrayed his mission and sent it to Mohammed (Not by mistake as many think).
They believe that the holy family of Ali (which includes Mohammed) are sacred, perfect and can never sin or mistake in general. They call them "Aal Al-Beit"
They especially believe that 12 members of the holy family are so sacred and holy that they posses powers resembling those of God (Allah). Many of the extreme groups believe that these twelve members (called the "12 A-Emma" meaning the 12 Imams) control the universe, decide the final day, who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. They practically make them the ultimate power of this universe!
This is the biggest contradiction Shias have with Sunnahs who believe only in the one ultimate immortal power of God (Allah) who does not share this with any other creature whatsoever.
The Shia believe that 11 holy members of the sacred family have already passed away and one is still to come and save the world.
Their dispute with the Sunnah begins as early as the prophet was wrongly appointed in their point of view.
They also consider that all Mohammed's friends and colleagues were betrayers except for a small number of individuals (this means that almost 125,000 colleagues of Mohammed are considered betrayers and non-believers who repelled from Islam except for 6 to 10 individuals in their point of view).
Even their rituals are different from Sunnah's!
They generally do not consider the holy pilgrimage to Mecca, but to the tomb of Al-Hussain (Ali's son and one of the 12 holy Imams). Some of them refuse to pray unless they have a portion of sand from Al-Hussains tomb area to land his/her head on.
They consider that the Quran we have between our hands is false and that the real Quran is the one Fatima (the daughter of Mohammed and wife to Ali) had hidden.
In their opinion, it is very different to the one the Sunnah have.
Plenty of Shias don't reveal this belief because of the following:
They have "Al-Tukia" principal which means to behave and do something while believing the opposite. They can treat you well and consider you a friend while believing you are their enemy and go on with this for a life time.
It is considered part of their religion.
Sunnah's consider this as Hippocratic.
They are famous in this to gain followers and have succeeded in many parts to expand their powers. This is nowadays a political art of the Iranian government.
Examples of expansion are: Iraq, Pakistan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar.
Here in Qatar, I believe the government is trying to reduce their influence and authority as much as possible after having seen what they can do when they get to authority. The biggest example is Iraq.
In Iraq, the Shias have taken the ruling part and are now an ally to Iran. The friendship with the Amercians is only a "Tukia" means to get authority and kick out the Sunnah from ruling.
This may sound strange, but only time will tell what I am claiming here...
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When dealing with others: Never judge a person from his first act
When dealing with myself: You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
do you mind changing your lipliner color now
use dark one now.
disagreeing with Christians and vigorously prosecuting their case about why Christians are on the wrong path, don't want to speak honestly and openly about this issue. Intriguing, isn't it?
The reality is that many Sunni Muslims believe that Shi'a are not "real" Muslims or are seriously misguided because of certain beliefs and practices. I personally am Sunni, but I have some Shi'a friends. Even so, we generally don't discuss religion because I have some serious issues with their ideas and practices, which I view as innovation (bi'dah); and they view me in the same manner.
The biggest split is about the succession after the death of the Prophet (saw). Shi'a believe that Muslim should be led by descendants from the Prophet (saw) and Sunni believe that leadership should come from those most knowledgeable (bloodline not being important). Furthermore, It comes down to divided attitudes towards Abu Bakar (ra), the Prophet's close friend, confidante and father-in-law; and Ali (ra), the Prophet's son-in-law and cousin.
I like this article on the subject: http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm
That said, Allah knows best.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
i read about it and have some idea on whats the basic differace between the shia and sunni muslims.
i was only asking to know what the muslims them self think and how many of them realy know. i have heard a lots of time when shia critisized sunni and vise verser.
my question again why do they hate each other? why do they fight against each other. only asking to know personal opinion.
ps.sorry if ive put out another religious thread. i know people are bored of religious topics.
action speaks louder than words
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/
Some Shia for example thinks that the our prophet Mohammad was choosen by mistake to be the last messenger, they think that the messenger should have been Ali.
Ok for more information please search on the net.
The rude wolf is here ! Wallah, now I am nervous!
You come from your dark cave, wallah, here it is nice,better for you to stay here.Wallah!
What comes around, goes around....
is to seek a scholar
I think we should not speak about religious issues in public coz may be without knowledge we might hurt some people of these religion.
I strongly agree with BRITEXPAT
Probably best to ask a scholar or better still why not do the research yourself.
this was already discussed before fefee...anyways, i dont know y did u put this thread...however, i would respond u just the major difference..
Sunni : believes in one & only Allah & only call him for help.
Shia : believes in Allah but also believes in other "Hassan, hussain, Ali etc." which is contradictory to Sunnis.
~noms~
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"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein
when shias are in any trouble they say "ya ali" instead of saying "ya ALLAH" for help.this is shirk and we can only call ALLAH for help not any person who ever he or she is and shirk is an unforgiveable sin.
this is a simple example for knowing who is following the right islam
did you search the forum? there was already a thread about this some time back. Then put up the question.
sunni Muslims follow the right way
of course the sunni Muslims are on the right path , but even the Sunni Muslims have so many different sects in it's self.
The Shia , do one of the worse things you can do in Islam, which is worshiping others beside Allah, it is called Shirk.
And Allah forgives what he wills ,but he doesn't forgive shirk
please post, ONLY if you have an answer.
do you believe that i didt gogle it? do you belive i never read about it??
i posted because i need to hear from PEOPLE, not from WRITERS.
PS.PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY COMMENT TO THIS THREAD IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A USEFUL ANSWER
action speaks louder than words
Better google it and find out for yourself
please no copy and past answers,prefer personal knowlege or understanding.
if i wanted a copy and past, no need of postion on ql, cus i could googl it myself.
cheers
action speaks louder than words