bishop under fire over Quran statement
A senior Coptic bishop has caused a furor in Egypt by suggesting that some verses in the Quran, the Muslim holy book, were inserted at a date after it was first set down, press reports said on Friday.
Bishop Bishoy, secretary of the Coptic Church's Holy Synod, suggested last week that certain verses of the Quran had been inserted into the holy book after the death of the Prophet Mohammed, implying doubt over their validity.
During a recent meeting with the Egyptian ambassador in Cyprus, attended by some media, Bishoy said certain verses of the Quran contradict the Christian faith and that he believed they were added later by one of Mohammed's early successors, Caliph Uthman Ibn Affan.
The remarks sparked outrage among both Christian and Muslim leaders, saying they could lead to sectarian tension, and Bishoy told a lecture on Wednesday there had been a misunderstanding.
"My question as to whether some verses of the Quran were inserted after the death of the prophet is not a criticism or accusation," he said. "It is merely a question about a certain verse that I believe contradicts the Christian faith," Bishoy told an audience in Fayoum, south of Cairo, in statements carried by al-Masry al-Youm.
"I don't understand how that can be turned into an attack on Islam," Bishoy said, insisting his remarks had been taken out of context.
one-shot do you know how many people deny the holocuast in the West? tens of thousands? More? they have blogs, twitter accounts, pages on facebook, books and some even lecture in universities. However (with the exception of Germany and Austria) most never get arrested unless they are accused of trying to incite violence. There have only been a handful of cases in the US and Canada (in fact I can probably count them on one hand) of holocaust deniers being arrested in the past couple of decades and all of those men were also leaders of Neo-Nazi groups who were trying to incite violence against minorities. Now if you want to support these guys, that's your prerogative, all I'm saying is your average holocaust denier doesn't get arrested for his beliefs.
weed or something else??
r u feeling high?
Lots of people question the events of the holocaust sillyguy, there's tons of books, university classes, documentaries, etc, questioning exactly what happened and how and the exact numbers involved, and these people are notlabeled as anti-semites. However if you're a known anti-semite who's constantly going on about "Zionists" and outright deny the holocaust ever happened, then yes, you'll probably be labeled as an anti-semite.
figure out what it is you are trying to say, mate :(
WK.....nothing will happen because you are in safe place. Try questioning it in free world i.e. europe/america and no matter where you hide you will be brought back to face the music.
sillyguy i think the number in the holocaust was a bit exaggerated. I don't have a desk to hide under so will just stay on the couch and wait for whatever :o)
Pilgram.......see you questioned quran and nothing happened. But try to question holocaust and you will be labelled as anti-semite. Btw, you don't have courage to question it and all freedom of speech ends here.
if you are talking about muslims you should see people 1 month before when Ids has been deleted about 9 11 or the Holocaust witch restrain the freedom of speech or believe and so and so.
so being offended is not a Muslim privilege.
so people it is not about islam or quran or christianity or juiadism , it is all about money and power,it is all about some people how they can add more money to their accounts and watch us fighting to death like "gladiators" while they are enjoying the money and laughing.
.
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do u think that muslims could be affected if someone burned the quran? or other said that it has been manipulated?? or do u think it will change what believe ?
no at least not us maybe the next generation, but these statements are just to put oil on fire so some people as i said before and i copy paste it again:
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it is all about money and power,it is all about some people how they can add more money to their accounts and watch us fighting to death like "gladiators" while they are enjoying the money and laughing.
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Ofcourse nothing will happen .. You're an infidel :O)
Question the Quran! Dear God No! *hides under desk to await God's wrath.......Oh wait, nothing happened...
but remaining somethings can't be touched in islam, like the prophet or his family or Quran or... so whatever you try to change muslims, you can but you can't touch these things which are more important t muslims than their lives.
so it is very easy to let others do their jobs in it ,and then the media will do its jobs, like what happened with the drawings ,then Mother Aysha, and now Quran.
if you can't brake these values at least you can shake it
for me i think it is something beyond offending muslims.
"My personal opinion" is the following:
the muslim community is very strong and bonded and it is very difficult to affect on it, since islam is not only a religion , it is a believe associated with culture of the inhabitants.
this is not serving what other people wants,Do you think they care about Christianity or Judaism?
the answer is NO,
the invasion happened 10 or 15 years before on the Tv channels , we thought that this is the western community, but we were mistaken "a lot of them are good, and some are bad" and there is no problem if they don't agree with what you believe, but what if "you" don't agree with what they believe ?.
Anyway,everything in the media was touchable if not then it will be slowly slowly until we accept the idea "not sure to agree with" just accepting it.
Regardless of the bishop viewpoint, he should've not announce that for the sake of the 15 million Copt egyptain. The sectarian tension have been escalating in the past few years , specially in rural Egypt towns.
The mob in the streets of cairo can easily be influenced, in 2005 many coptic were attacked ,harassed And were subject to hostility after the news of Theatrical play in a coptic school that criticized Islam stormed the Internet despite Coptic church denying the allegations
Sillyguy...
My point was, that since Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, but to us he is the Son of God, we don't get offended by hearing your belief that to you he is a prophet... it is your belief, just that...
But it would seem anytime the Quran is challenged, then its a big hue and cry and apologies are demanded.
I cannot tell you the number of times in the past we have been told here on QL that the bible is 'rubbish' it isn't really God's word... but we don't get all up in arms about it... you believe what you are taught, and we believe what we are taught.
God will deal with the people as deemed fit, which ever religion is correct.
If you live your life like a good Muslim or Christian, you will be rewarded.
BTW, I did try to watch the links you gave me, but they where made in the 1980's and the sound quality was horrendous, I could hardly hear anything:-(
Xena you can believe what bible says no one is stopping you.
You can watch this debate where christian evangelist talks about Jesus.
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Qhris....do you also not get when jews cry anti-semetism for questioning holocaust.
Isn't it someone's RIGHT to be offended? Isn't that the point of free speech?
What I don't get about Muslims is that if you get offended....what happens? Does your leg drop off? Do you get a disease? Does the sun shatter in a million pieces? No.
You just FEEL offended, that is all.
Offense is subjective. What may offend me, may not offend 'you'.
People are so sensitive these days over feelings....
JUST DEAL WITH IT.
I really SHOULD get upset when Muslims refer to Jesus as a mere prophet and not as the Son of God... since my belief, due to MY bible telling me so, that Jesus is God's son, its an insult to Christians to hear him referred to at a lower order...
See now, how I can take offence too?
Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God and one of the holy Trinity.
lol
و يمكرون و يمكر الله و الله خير الماكرين
LP......there is no reason why would you not question any holy book. You can question for the sake of knowing or clearing doubts. As you said..." writting by a human claiming to be holy?".....no it was not written by Prophet(PBUH). Why.......because he couldn't read or write, In addition:
The holy Quran predicted many events to take place ahead of the time of the revelation of that verse; for example, predicting the destruction of Persian empire in less than 10 years, at a time where the later had a monumental victory over Rome. If the prophet, as some people claim, has written the Quran, then he would not have put his future in real jeopardy.
The holy Quran included statements describing scientific phenomena that were only possible to be proved by the current state of art of knowledge and science.
There is full chapter in Quran under name of Maryam (Mary) while no other single woman is mentioned by name in Quran. Non of the women of Prophet Muhammad family (mother, daughters, wives, ...) is mentioned or honored in Quran. Maryam (or Mary) was honored in Quran and described as he lady of all ladies in all worlds and times.
Now you can raise another question that who wrote it then?. I will say it was revealed by Allah to Prophet(PBUH). I know it is still not convincing for you.
As a knowledgeable priest he should be aware that quran is not only available in print but also preserved in thousands of muslims heart right from the Prophet(PBUH) times. It's not possible for someone to add or delete verse from the quran.
Yes quran contradict the christain faith everyone knows that. Christain belive Jesus(PBUH) is a God or LORD while quran says he was a prophet.
If you had a decent e-mail, I would explain my situation..
if i recall i heard you saying to me that you will get back by September
Sorry Gene :D
Darude and Britexpat
Darude
You still miss me? I miss our friendship, I got no real friends to trust over here.
Britexpat
Clarification accepted...
I don't get it, is Islam supposed to be in line with Christianity?
you are still alive fishing around.
My bad.. Wrong wording..
What I meant to say is that even though the Bishop may question - He is not going to get anywhere. Because Muslims regards to Quran as written... without errors.
britexpat said:
A storm in a tea cup. The Bishop should not question the authencity of the Quran.
Why not?
After all it was writting by a human claiming to be holy?
The same why I question any "holy book."
Of anything, the one-off author would be god himself delivered orally and memorized by the prophet before being written in the form of scribe and tabernacle, only to be transformed later into texts on scripts and books by successful followers.
The man had some questions..he asked. What's the fuss over a non Muslim questioning the Quran and the reliability of Sahabahs when so called Muslims do far worse? Are we forgetting the sects that actually make cursing Sahabahs (Radhiyallahu anhuma) mandatory? Please...Muslims need to stop being so over sensitive! The Prophet himself was questioned far worse but answered all with great patience and tolerance as did the Sahabah..they are our examples!
A storm in a tea cup. The Bishop should not question the authencity of the Quran.
However, he has clearly stated that he has issues with one verse and wants diallogue to clarify.
Since Muslims believe in the authencity of the Quran, this is nigh on impossible..