Beliefs

OK, end of hijacking (1)

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Thanks a lot

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Prince, if you're interested in knowing more about this then i would suggest you read a book called "The Great War for Civilisations: Conquest of the Middle East" by Robert Fisk. He's a journalist that used to write for The Times. His book is one of the best ever books i've read so far. I think you'd enjoy it of you're willing to spare time for 1,300 pages!!!

Please provide sources confirming your statements, it would be of help.

Facts are always welcomed

N.B.

Holocaust was serving as an example about "truth" to MD, that's all

End of Holocaust discussion, back to normal thread (hopefully)

Thanks

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Gents, it seems that we're focusing on one holocaust here, but what about the first ever? The Armenian Holocaust back in 1915? If Prince wants numbers, i'm pretty sure that 1.5 million is something that he'll find all accross archives! How about the 50,000 decayed corpses that journalists and authorities found in the Northern of Syrian desert Magadra! When it comes to issues like holocausts, whether the armenian or jewish one, it's not a matter of believing or having faith, it's a FACT. So i don't think that it's too relevant to the topic that has been started over here.

Prince: How many men you think were fighting in WW II and how many you think were present when the prisioners were released from those concentration camps. Some of them are still alive and several camps are now monuments to the holocaust so we never forget what hate may do to humans.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

now talking about millions of witnesses ? who? where? when?

give me a break!

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

I tend to agree that it's wrong to stop people from questioning things about the holocaust.

But unlike with the cat in the box, where we don't know it's state, with the holocaust we have evidence pertaining to what happened.

I didn't want to post the above until I'd ascertained your views on the holocaust. If you outright deny that it happened then there seems little point continuing.

Prince: You are as free from questioning those numbers as any other has of confirming those numbers.

You may question because you weren't a witness, but do you think you can deny millions of witnesses?

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Does this mean that no one is allowed to question the actual number ?

ever read the "Nuremberg Trials" ? some testimonials from it I would assume?

I have read "other" extracts that shows how ridiculous some testimonials were. I'm "allowed" to say that, right?

while looking now for information, I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials#Criticism

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Prince: There are all over Europe several people that where present when the jews were released from the concentration camps, not 2/3/4 or 100 but thousands of witnesses not counting the jews that were arrested.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

I mean it's enforced in the west more than religion, while criticism, denial, or even questioning the actual number is not tolerated

Haven't you heard of the doctoral degree that was withdrawn after being granted just because the student dared questioned the actual number?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Having stayed in the middle for 17 years, I'm sure you've experienced the effect of media manipulation ... it's allover the world, both in the east and in the west.

The only difference in which direction each country's media is biased!

Remember Iraq's WMD ... "truth"?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

the_prince,

I agree with what you said "So how come the west is giving such a hard time to holocaust deniers"?

Unfortunately, though truth may be for those who believe it is true, others try to enforce their truth amongst us!

If i don't beleive in your truth, are you going to accuse me of been a non-beleiver? No, as my truth may not be ur truth.

Very Good Point!!!

the_prince - you're implying there's no evidence that the holocaust happened. Is that what you think?

It serves a purpose. It's their 'truth'. You can call it 'brainwash', if you like. But it happens on both sides. You could also say:" Five million people were killed", but nobody would react to this.

using your own words:

"The truth is that the truth is only true for the one who thinks it's true ."

So, how come the west is giving such a hard time to holocaust deniers?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Welcome aboard

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

so holocaust is not a truth ? (heating things up!)

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

After reading your post, had to visit your profile looking for the job section. Obviously you are keeping your brain active.

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

It is a truth.

This was basically an atheist caricature, depicting an atheist's last words while he car was falling off the cliff

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

1- When was the last time you questioned your beliefs?

- Over the past 2-3 months, again questioned myself.

2- Do you do that regularly?

- Often

3- Are you a truth-seeker?

- Yes

4- Are you a fanatic?

- No, but firm on my beliefs and values.

5- Do you tolerate fanatics from your own group?

6- Do you tolerate fanatics from other groups just as much?

I tolerate fanatics from other groups more than I do with those from my own (they know better, I say).

I'm working on improving though.

Salam

I like to see myself as a trueth seeker

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

i overheard someone say "God save me if there is a God save my soul,if i have a soul".

sooo,,,i was utterly speechless...what do you make of that?

I evolved from truth-seeker….to fanatic…to a living dead lol! Now I believe that TRUTH is relative except of course for absolute facts.

[img_assist|nid=21401|title=Adjust, Adopt & Overcome|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=135]

prince, for us it is undetermined. But it isn't. We just don't have the means to see it. And that's when believing helps those who can't live with these facts.

The fact that we don't know the state of the cat, doesn't mean that its state is undetermined

Meaning that: A truth does exit despite the fact that we

that cat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

As for death tolls (even if correct), remember that God created everything, so, the final sum is always positive (+infinity)

I don't know of anything created by Satan, still gets a negative sum (-10)

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Surely it turned into a gremlin! :P

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

I'd rather agree with Erwin Schroedinger, zayd. The cat is either dead or alive.

its not the truth i'm interested in....i just think that someone saying "i don't have any beliefs" is really similar to the epimenides paradox or godel's objection to bertrand russel's PM...don't you think?

I don't agree with you, zayd. "The Truth" exists for you or not, and only for you or not for you.

that's the thing then MD, if you agree with me then you BELIEVE that "The Truth" doesn't exist...there's a belief for you to question :)

try it one time MD,then try to explain to this guy...lol!

I don't know what death is. Haven't experienced it so far. Will tell you later when I'm dead.

Can I add another: Life itself!

There is no meaning of death without life.

So, do we have 2 truths so far? (3 to include Dracula's case) :D

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

The only thing for certain in life is death. Everything else is a shot in the dark, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

At least we can try to search, learn, and understand

Anyone remember the book series: "Look, Listen, and Learn" ?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Mitzzyy:

Very true

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

the prince... perhaps...a case to case basis...different people...different personality e...=D

Mitzzyy Mitz '09

Mitzzyy:

I agree with the second part of your reply. As for the first, well ...

There is a poem that says:

A man of great mind is having troubles even in a paradise because of his knowledge,

while an ignorant/knowledgeable man is living happily in his misery

First type: like scientists, thinkers, and rebels

Second type: most people

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

Sometimes I question if this is what God really wants but then again, believing in something means believing in something without having to prove it. As we say, Gottes Wege sind unergründbar. As for the truth, there is no such thing as one truth but millions of little truths.

LOL Dracula

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

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Cheaterrrr!

.

.

You can't have a light without a dark to stick it in!

perhaps a "Stake Through the Heart" can make you "see the light" :D

Now, still don't believe in death as a truth?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

LOLzzzzzz @ drac...=D

it is just a matter of how stable your mind is...how satisfied are you in your life...Once you have those satisfaction and stability...there is no point questioning your belief....

Also, your belief is innate...nobody should ask you that because it is for you and only for you...no matter the other asked you, they would still get the same answer on what you believed in...

Mitzzyy Mitz '09

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I do!

i am half-dead

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You can't have a light without a dark to stick it in!

Well, some people argue that death is the only truth in this world.

Do you deny this?

"The larger grows the island of my knowledge, the

longer stretch the shores of my ignorance."

William Blake

The truth is that the truth is only true for the one who thinks it's true.

zAYD: What MD is saying that truths can co-exist and doesnt need to be mutually exclusive. Also, in quite a few incidences, what people accept as truth is just a metter of the individual's perception.

zayd, you're a bright guy.

Never bothered....am perfectly happy with what I believe in...

you do realize MD that by saying that there are many truths then The Truth doesn't exist...

I don't question my beliefs because I don't have any. I don't seek The Truth, because there are many.