The Banker who can't get out of Qatar

I don't know the facts on David Proctor, and it is true that being wrongfully detained without charge goes against fundamental human rights. That being said, I do recall a few years back how a Canadian girl who was successful passing off fraudulent checks in Canada decided to come to Qatar to practice her art, she got caught on her first attempt, convicted and imprisoned. What did she get out of this? A book deal from a publishing company (Most Western countries usually prevent one from benefiting from their criminal activities in this way), where she spoke of how her experience was horrible and she would hear people "begging for their lives".

At that time Ontario was having serious issues with their overcrowded prisons (and I am sure they still do today), and in a lot of cases they were forced to put up to four people into cells designed to occupy two, aside from the obvious issues with such arrangements, this also put prisoners at serious risk of becoming victims of violence. I wonder if anyone would have been as interested in offering a publishing deal to someone who may have witnessed/suffered serious injuries/death in one of these two man cells holding four?

The news article that reported her 'freedom' from Qatar focused more on the 'horrifying' experience rather than the fact that her sole purpose for traveling to Qatar was to commit fraud. I also doubt that in that case that Qatar would have been more transparent then they were with David's case. Of course it would be more appropriate to publish all the facts and alleged criminal activities they suspected were going on, but just because they didn't does not mean the suspicions were baseless. As the same could be applied to the case of that Canadian crook, where the testimony of her Qatar experience was deemed to be worthy of a publishing deal, irrespective of her credibility considering she is a criminal.

Sorry guys, i din look for a MOD to stop the discussion but I guess its the norm where he does!!

I dont like Bankers..:) they caused the Golabl economical crisis!

Bigrex what you want the Mods for? Can't you think for yourself?

why your looking for mod? discussions are healthy..

he is in love with mods maybe

What for?

Where is the MOD btw???

good morning!

flor1212,

Exposing areas for improvement is not bashing.

I agree we come from different cultural backgrounds and it might be difficult for you to understand why certain cultures say what they think and others reframe from doing it.

As we can’t change our backgrounds in a forum, we should agree to disagree ;)

s_isale,

Don’t assume you know who is behind a on-line forum! Your guess is limited to how you perceive the world.

I do speak and read in four languages but that’s not the point of our debate.

I do not rely on the Qatari English or Arabic News papers.

I also live here and what I personally experience and witness on a daily basis can’t be covered or replaced by what the local media chooses or is authorized to publish!

does it mean that you only knew that fact that Qatar is not that transparent now! It is a known fact and we can't do anything about it. There are certain things we just can't change, it's their country, their rules. We can suggest, give comments but the courtesy should remain. If our suggestion and comments were noted, fine but bashing will not do good.

does it mean that you only knew that fact that Qatar is not that transparent now! It is a known fact and we can't do anything about it. There are certain things we just can't change, it's their country, their rules. We can suggest, give comments but the courtesy should remain. If our suggestion and comments were noted, fine but bashing will not do good.

flor1212,

We are not debating about our companies, that's a complete different issue.

We are debating about the lack of transparency of a particular nation.

We are also here in an informal debate with no political agendas to sell and therefore no need for you to leave your personal details here ;)

way back home in my early employment and I made it as a personal guide to myself. Never speak ill of your company while you're in. Get out first and start the talking! And it really makes sense! ANd one more thing, never speak in anonymity, it doesn't make sense!

nic, what you see and read only is what the English newspapers give you. HAve you made an effort to read the arabic newspapers? Have you ever listened to talk show in arabic that is there every morning? If you havent, then you are living in a fools paradise.

yea, if someone doesnt like your reasoning, that means the person is dumb. great.

s_isale,

Obviously, you haven't lived in my country, where people are free to express their opinions.

It probably takes a certain degree of societal maturity to understand the value and limits of personal opinions. Certain reactions here imply that lack of understanding!

this is not peculiar to Qatar, this standard applies to all the countries. Even you wouldnt like it if I were in your country working and talked trash about it in public.

flor1212,

I wouldn't say that it’s about courtesy, it’s more about fear and the degree you and your loved ones depend on the job you have here that makes people more or less submissive.

Unfortunately many expats here come from extreme difficult lives back home and that is what feeds the silence and total submission here.

I will have to disagree with you on that, bleu. We all know how people are expected not to voice out many things here. Forget the expatriates, many locals have even had to keep quiet about such things. So he could've started talking when he left as he felt it was safe to.

like Menard, best time to say something bad about Qatar (whether true or not) is when you're out of this country. Me, there are times I like this country and there are times I'm frustrated but COURTESY dictates us to be a little cautious about what we are saying!

Genesis,

You do appear to have some issue that puts you often on a defensive and personal attacking mode as if you don’t have any valid argument to add on the discussion.

Here is what Ménard's book talks about:

"Sheikha Mozah's dilemmas (the beautiful and ambitious wife of the Emir), the ballet of the French leaders in search of "partnerships". Not to mention the plight of immigrant workers, true slaves of our times."

No need further discussion.

We all know what the real Qatar is and we all know that Qataris are not ready to admit or discuss this in public so I'll spare you the pain by not feeding or inciting your further participation on this topic.

Ménard was silent when he was here, then when he was pressured to resign, he went home and started talking... What would anyone expect him to say? The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I wouldn't expect that.

You still are yet to enlighten us Genesis about the squandering of public money, the firing of the bankers wife and been a con-artist....is this your intelligent summary of the Facts? Very very odd that the guy was never spoken to by police and NO charges were ever laid...but I guess you couldn't answer the above as you have no facts to debate with

You still are yet to enlighten us Genesis about the squandering of public money, the firing of the bankers wife and been a con-artist....is this your intelligent summary of the Facts? Very very odd that the guy was never spoken to by police and NO charges were ever laid...but I guess you couldn't answer the above as you have no facts to debate with

and I really wonder why these people are so against Qatar to which they earn their living. Courtesy is not saying bad against your host until you left his house or country. There is a big difference in voicing your concern the proper way and bashing your host. The first is to introduce improvement or calling attention! The second is just pure destructive in nature!

How can westerners make mistakes? Its unbelievable. Its only the Asians who can do it.

Go get a life. There has to be a reason for him to be denied his exit. There is also the example of the Australian who took out a huge loan and made an escape. Now that is not considered as crime isnt it? he made a sane move isnt it? Criminals............

I don't know why I'm being accused of supporting or defending any alleged criminal activity. Where did I write anything in their defence?

All I said was that I wanted to buy a book that isn't published in English, available in Qatar, and is too sensitive to be linked to the QL website.

Insecure much?

Spare me your prejudice

In most countries, many internal cases of firms and banks never make it to the media. And millions are paid to cover it up. pointing fingers that this only happens in Qatar is just indication of your pure ignorance.

If you happen to read Robert Menard book as you claim , you'd know that he criticize the status quo not tptb. Maybe you should learn Arabic , to read the many articles by Qatari writers which are more critic To the situation of freedom of speech

Don't turn this into a FOS issue, your posts were mainly leaning toward how unfair this man was treated. And you choose to believe a one-sided article over common sense

Not everything can be written in a public forum, or I would have given you facts & figures to shut you up

If the intention of this article is to warn westerners from working in Qatar

Well, fine

Maybe someone finally listened to many Qataris prayers ;)

Genesis,

With all respect, I don’t know if you have English interpretation issues or if your world's paradigm doesn’t allow you to often understand the facts as they are written!

Nobody is defending anyone here. What we are discussing is the whole process and its lack of transparency – the already internationally recognized Qatar’s trade mark.

If this happened in most of the countries, the news would have been reported even respecting the secrecy required for the case: “Mr. so and so, former CEO of bank so and so, is being investigated for alleged wrong doing...”. The investigation would have proceeded and the final court decision would have been reported to the public.

Here, we all know (and this case is yet another piece of evidence) that transparency doesn’t go well in Qatar, as it would expose a lot more than what Qatari powerful ones would like to.

Being always on a defensive mode might be signs of insecurity, inferiority complex or something to hide.

Qatar has a long way to go to reach the maturity posture required and expected from a credible Nation.

If Qatar recognized that in public and behaved in a transparent and humble manner it would have the support and respect of the rest of the world; otherwise, it will be condemned as we are already witnessing.

Take the example of this website, censoring information as if this is normal and casual thing to do. This simple and malicious act speaks a lot about the people behind it.

I recommend you to read “Mirages et Cheiks en Blanc” (a book by Robert Ménard and Thierry Steiner that unveils the hidden face of this country, far from the modern image that it tries to display) to get a better idea of what kind of image Qatar is actually projecting in the international stage.

And then you will realize that its not about what some QLers write here, its about what the world actually sees in Qatar.

You may delete posts and accounts from QL but you can never shut the world’s eyes and freedom of speech!

Valid point . Like most westerner expatriates, their savings are in bank accounts abroad.

In general, bank executives here doesn't earn less then 200K QR per month .

Are we supposed to believe that a man of his position , would spend all his monthly salaries in Doha ?

Anyway, discussing this pointless now. Since, he've already left the country

Guess industry related polices are not known by all. Plus its a well known fact that, like most Europeans or Americans he was also well paid. Where is all that money which he earned? Are we to believe that he is begging right now and all his money is frozen???

Cases of corruption in firms ( banks in particular) doesn't go to the media for customer relations & legal aspects . And it's always regarded as confidential.unless it gets leaked

The Man in question took his story to the media to get the public compassion. And we all know that stories of "westerner's misery in a foreign land" sells well in the UK

i wasn't referring to Minard

Do a search in QL..and you'll find that i've posted many threads about DCMF. Not to mention, i'm a fan of his earlier works :)

As for his book, from what i heard is centralized around what he expressed earlier while leaving the Center.

As for both cases mentioned in this thread, Both cases were raised by the public prosecutor. And of course they were not allowed to leave the country while being trailed.

well said Fubar, a voice of reason!

In most countries, when someone breaks the law, the police are called, charges are filed, and a criminal prosecution commences. The person is either found innocent, or guilty. If he is found guilty, he is punished.

Is that what happened to this man, or the other men and women mentioned in the article?

If these people are as guilty of such serious crimes, why are they never prosecuted? Surely if he did all the bad things he is accused of, it would have been an open and shut case and he'd be in jail by now.

I am a simple person. If in 14 months someone isn't charged with a crime, chances are they didn't commit one.

Regarding this comment "Supporting a corrupted con artist is just an indication of your high ethics :)" are you referring to Robert Menard's case, as that was who I was referring to.

Again, he either resigned or was asked to leave (possibly both) but no where can I find statements to support your claim that he was 'currupt' or a 'con':

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3327.htm#_edn1

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4a449192c.html

If he too was corrupt, why was he not prosecuted for his alleged crime?

well if its a one-sided article its because the bank won't comment.....very strange indeed if they think they have been defrauded....again I have yet to read anywhere what this banker was accused of, other than a bounced cheque, which was a result of his salary NOT been paid...

These news articles are so one-sided... And the law here could be very lenient in certain cases.

Genesis please enlighten us to your points above "Not only did he abuse his power by hiring his wife, squandered public money over his personal purchases. But also involved in fraud" None of this was highlighted in the article, and very strange that the bank have nothing to say....please enlighten us?

Genesis you obviously have facts that none of us are privy to....how come if he was a con man and abused this public money and defrauded the bank was he never spoken to by police or criminal charges laid? And what was his wife hired to do? At least in New Zealand he wouldn't be held prisnor, if he was involved in criminal activity charges would be laid simple as that....

Raven1968 said the issue here is how this gentleman was treated by Qatar, totally disgusting and repugnant....

---I wonder how he'll be treated in your country?

Not only did he abuse his power by hiring his wife, squandered public money over his personal purchases. But also involved in fraud

NIC,FUBER & RAVEN

Supporting a corrupted con artist is just an indication of your high ethics :)

Both individuals discussed here..have already left the country.

Cases like these. Make the front pages of newspapers in your countries, and people demand that they get prosecuted. And dozen of cases are filed against them

Why are you denying us that ?

Nic their WC bid just cracks me up, I seriouisly can't believe that they think they have a realistic chance of hosting such an event...all the pretty presentations and ambitions don't change the fact they have no infrastructure, oragnisational skills or any sort of ability to hold an event of this magnitude...I can't wait to read the proaganda leading up to Decembers decision by Fifa

lol, nothing that we are not used to here! that's why they will be (not) organizing the 2022 WC and their reputation in the international scene is catching up with their masks.

I'll bring a few samples from my next visit to the free world ;)

Can't wait for Bogaert's book!

OMG they deleted your link Nic, this country is so precious...Lol

Bigrex,

LOL... just because I work here and get paid for the services I provide, does that mean that I cannot comment on the darker sides of this country?!

Sorry mate, I wasn't educated in that submissive way!

Fubar,

My post with the book's link was deleted.

How sad this site is. It sure reflects where it comes from!

Bigrex thats not the point, yes Qatar is supporting my living for which in turn I provide my services...the issue here is how this gentleman was treated by Qatar, totally digusting and repugnant....and if this is a sign of how Qatar treats its residents then it has a long way to go before becoming a civilised society..

Cannot deny a word mentioned. But isnt the same soil supporting your living? How many David Proctors does Qatar actually have against successful people like many of us?

I wonder if that book will be available at Virgin?

If it was translated to English it would be a fascinating read.

It's such a shame that the good things this region produces are always ignored by the west, who instead (perhaps justifiably) focus on the corruption, cronyism, rights abuses and scandals of the region.

The article also speaks about the belgium hostage in Qatar:

"His departure in September last year is the stuff of derring-do. A support group hired a yacht to give the appearance they were on a recreational sail around the Gulf. They moored in Doha, Bogaert was smuggled on board and the boat sailed on its festive way. It was only when it was outside the Gulf, in the genuinely international waters of the Arabian Sea five days’ sail from Doha, that Bogaert first felt comfortable to appear above deck. He made it to India and now, reunited with his family in Belgium, is writing a book about his drama. "The Qataris are unembarrassable," says Bogaert. "They have more than $100 million coming out of the ground every day which means they think they can do what they want."

The true Qatari reputation is slowly unveiled to the world!

thats right Nic, well pointed out. Also the banks had a 60bn bailout by the Govt so all their financial are "puffed out" and inflated and not showing the real picture.

Fubar,

The only reason that Qatari banks were "not affected" by the global financial crisis is because there is no real economy here. Loads of millions are poured out of the soil and spent all over in whatever whenever (to the exception of most of the salaries) with no cost or budget controls. Nothing matters here as tomorrow, more loads of millions will be collected out of the soil.

No real sustainable economy can function in this scenario - the reality of Qatar!

What a fascinating article.

And how embarrassing for the bank to have its financial details splashed out for public ridicule.

So much for Qatar's banks not being affected by the global financial crisis!

He is not the first one and won't probably be the last one.

The article kind of justifies the reasons behind these already usual but sad situations in Qatar:

"Because as with much in this reclusive, gas-rich Gulf monarchy, one of the world’s richest yet least transparent countries, not everything is as it appears. Proctor’s "special adviser" designation on the Al-Khaliji website seems as phony as what many anxious foreign bankers and businessmen in Doha posit is Qatar’s genuine commitment to due legal process. Qatar widely advertises a "world’s best practices" mantra but that is increasingly questioned internationally of financial centres across the Gulf as once-soaring Arab ambitions dissolve in a desert storm of bad debt and finger-pointing."

tell me s_isale what was the crime...the police never even talked to him....no charges were ever laid so again what was his crime? And how am I trying to put a spin on this, I posted a link....you might be brainwashed by this country but some of us are still free thinkers and don't take everything the Qatar media tell us as gospil...

he committed a crime and now hes facing the music. Thats all theres to it. However hard you try to spin it, it is still a crime.

typical of the mods isn't it Olive...they don't mind a bit of racial bashing but a topical true story most expats would be interested in gets deleted....now that sounds fair!

That's cause they were removed by the Mods, so you won't find it. I posted it a few months ago.

sorry FM never saw those threads...

if you search you will find here...it was discussed before on QL.