My first impression didn't last...

check it out!

Flor, I have no problem with Nomercy and her thoughts. Everyone is entitled to have their opinions in here. I have a problem with you not because of your opinions. My problem with you is that you have this weird urge to just post anything even if it does not make sense and even if it is not related to the topic. Maybe it is because you like accumulating points, which is very loserish.

And when you say badmouthing, what do you mean exactly? Like badmouthing the system? If so, why do you care that much? We get the part that you like this place and I am personally very happy for you. Just let other complainers complain in peace. Your role here should not be to always challenge anyone who hates something. Again, you are free to do so, but again I think it is very loserish.

I agree nomerci. Americans as a group complain the least IMO. British are the worst by a huge mark. But then they complain everywhere about everything. I remember that poll years ago that found over 1/2 of British wanted to live outside of Britain. Then just look around at how many are in Qatar. But they complain still. LOL.

Of course always some exceptions.

Nice read...just goes to prove how difficult it is to change the status quo, to pull out people of their comfort zones and hence the concept of change management.

my freind thank you for the nice and positive message...

Flor, there are many people of other nationalities that are loud and rude too.

I could point out some. And I could add some other not so desirable traits...

but LOUD AND RUDE, I can point to some!

Doha Chap...there are many people of different nationalities that like to moan...no necessarily Americans only..in fact, I would say the Americans over here moan the least...

So i heard Qatar Airways is offering cheap seats for the moaning yankees ! hurry up now ‘n buy ur ticket back to Uncle Sam’s barn.

freedom of speech!!

Now that is different in different countries isnt it?

Even in Western countries I believe they have different connotations.

well the fact that what Nomerci said above is the same way I think, to the dot.

And if I respect your view, you should do to mine. And stop badmouthing, it shows your character. Well nothing surprisng about that. From your earlier post in other threads, we can already see what kind of person you are. And you are not adapted to this country. Stay longer and MAYBE, just maybe, you LEARN a little respect for yourself! Again, I say, this is Qatar, their country their rules. If you wanna make suggestions, find a good way, definitely NOT HERE, and NOT your way!

Interesting point from PeterGrifin, although I would say what you are describing is English nature rather than HUMAN nature. Different cultures handle things differently. Some go with flattery in attempts to build up favors and connections and then try change that way.

Flor,

Your logic amazes me. No matter how much we simplify things to you, it is like talking to an infant.

People who live here surely see advantages of their stay. However, human nature is to always point out the bad hoping the voice will reach out to those who will change it to better.

Like how hard is it for you to grasp that part? What is your role in here? Is it just to cry like a little girl at anyone that got issues and tell them to leave? How pathetic are you of a man?

Last time, a simple riddle (married and un married) that a 4 year old can solve made you struggle and you did not even admit your lack of intelligence and instead you just kept on going while others laughed at you.

Just grow up man, learn to accept the other opinion and if it does not match yours, well then move on. You really are very annoying. I'm telling you this as a friend. At some point, you need to quit.

Another balanced view form nomerci.

And to jjj75--a company that provides further training and experience for you is giving you betterment and making you in a better position to find a job elsewhere (just not in Qatar). As I said above this is no different than the non-compete clauses in contracts in US for specialized areas like engineering. Maybe because you do not work in a specialized skill area you are not so aware of this but it is common.

btw--before you write more libels about me being "stalkerish" note that I posted on this thread before you.

jjj, fact is, it makes no sense for non Qataris to challenge the status quo.

I am fairly sure that most expats here have other thoughts in their heads than those they are told to think...but they simply realize what I have stated above..it makes no difference ..in fact, it might jeopardize the reason why they are here..to earn money.

Plus, the reason why most expats are here, is,IMHO, not any discomfort but money, in some cases safety and lifestyle.

I help where I can,but it

makes no sense for me to miserable about something that I can't change.

One always has to make compromises...and to earn the money that we do, we simple have to accept certain circumstances...that, in theend , we help to sustain..another thing to think about for those who criticize.

Flor - in respect to my nanny is, the difference between myself and my company is that I will help my nanny gain useful further employment (if that is her wish), this is called being under redundancy notice and assisting with redeployment followed by a final pay off/bonus. I would never cease her employment till she had found something and was ready to move.

However, do you think that my company, when it no longer has a use for me will treat me as such, no, it will tell me to go and go quitely and expect nothing more from them.

The irony is that most here don't get the idea of freedom of speech, the concept that someone might have a different opinion that is equally or if not more valid is alien to them. They obviously feel uncomfortable in challenging the status quo which is why THEY are no longer living in western democracies - and are mostly happy when they have no thought in their heads other than what they are told to think.

I look at it this way :

Sure ,there are things that are not right. In different ways than in the West.

Thing is, this is NOT the West. We are visitors here.

We can shout and talk as much as we want, it will simply not make a difference. This is Qatar, not France, Australia or America. Here, the Qataris speak and rule..nobody else. And,IMHO, rightfully so, as it is their country.

Now, IF you are invited here and given a job to change this rule, then fine, do your job. Otherwise do the job you are supposed to do.

This is not a Democracy where people can voice their opinion (although, in most Democracies, even if people do, it makes no difference).

I think this is something one must be aware of BEFORE coming here,and one must , with this knowledge in mind, weigh if one actually is capable to live in this way.

I am not saying this because I am a meek person, or I bury my head in the sand, I am saying this because, after the many years I have lived here, the many times I have heard people complain, leave in disgust, be very upset etc. we, as expats must realize this is what it is, nothing we do or say will change it. It is NOT our country, we , if we want to enjoy life,have to be realistic, and do what we signed up for, no more, no less.

And believe me, it took me quite a while to be able to do this...and I do have the occasional lapse;)

with all the disadvantage of Qatar as compare back home, why stay here?

And there was the contradiction here, your nanny need to be happy so you'll be happy. Isn't it a reality that when time comes that you don't need your nanny (in whatever reason, legit or not) you still have to part ways?

that's good. many people felt boredom in this state.

When I first came here, I've got no worries, I've got relatives and few friends already. And most of all, I'm looking forward to the day my hubby will be joining me here. In less than 6 months, he did land a job.

I've got an instance that I resigned from my post because I wanted so much to be with my kids but my employer rejected my resignation and offered me a good deal.

This is my 4th year in Doha and yes, I still want to continue working here. The good thing is, after our upcoming vacation, we'll be returning with our precious kids.

Living in Doha is a lot easier/lighter than in the Philippines, that's a truth.

Cherish the opportunity and don't let negative things get in to you.

Good luck to your job and be careful at the same time.

Have a happy stay in Doha!

jjj75: you just proved my point. ppl preach what they don't practice themselves. The only reason their Brit boss had the nerve to sack them like that is coz he knew they were powerless ‘n can’t hit back.

Tow of my friends were sacked from a Brit managed company last year. Neither one was given NGO or the benefit of 90 days consultation. Funny how ppl preach what they don’t practice.

Doha - did they take them to a tribunal (not available here), did they consult lawyers (very expensive and time consuming here, can get on a pro bono free basis in UK), did they go to the citizens advice bureau for free advice, did they consult their trade union to understand their rights(if they were a member, but also free basic advice to those who are not however here, the right to form and join unions is denied here under law).

There you go, you have many basic rights, freedoms and protection under UK legislation.

But if you talk about a Brit company here - guess who is the owner and ultimately calls the shots - you guessed it a national.

I dont know why the topic drifted from a general life in Qatar to the issues related to job. Can we go back to the original thought...thanks.

Actually DC - Have a nanny and I remunerate and treat her fairly, way in excess of what I see is the norm here because I think she is worth it and I am actually grateful that her looking after my son enables me to go to work - that is what is called a social contract. I don't expect her to be grateful as she provides a useful service to me, similarly I like to think that she is happy in her role and i ask her if she is happy - if she is happy my son is happy and i am happy and we are all winners. BUT if you live in a climate of fear and not knowing if you are going to be sacked for the littlest thing, it does not make for a very happy workforce.

So what you gonna do about it? Continue to have your double whopper burger while your poorly paid next door Asian labor can’t even afford a pillow under his head? How selfish!

How about you quit talking the talk and straight walking the walk for once in your lifetime?

jjj75 You can get another job just not in Qatar.

The West has no-compete clauses in many professional contracts, especially in engineering professions. If you leave an engineering job in Houston you have to leave town if you want to work in your profession.

TFS Khanan. I suspect most feel this way.

Did you not know Flor that in the West no one loses their jobs? The unemployed are all volunteers.

Flor Happened last week where I work actually. pretty nasty stuff and yes, it affects us all because we think, it could be us. AND Flor, no it does not happen everywhere. If you are mande redundant in the UK, the company by law is obliged to go through a 90 day consultation period to see if it is necessary to make you redundant or to see if they can find you alternative employment. If after this consultation period nothing can be found, you are made redundant and paid off. Before you say End of service benefit is the same, it is not, that is in lieu of a pension (which Nationals get but everyone does not).

And 2020, yes, I can leave my job but here is the double whammy - they control whether I can get another one ergo, no freedom.

BUT once again, you guys see what you want to see and deny unfair labour practices. I bet you are the very people who think that maids should work 7 days a week 14 hours a day and only have a holiday once every 5 years, be paid 700Riyals a month and be grateful - in your eyes this is fair

today's Gulf Time, A Candian couple and their exprience in Qatar :

'Dear Sir,

My husband and I recently returned to Canada after living in Doha since September 2007. He was offered a job working for the Qatar Foundation’s Sidra Medical and Research Centre as a senior planning consultant responsible for Allied Health Division. I was able to obtain a position as a medical radiography instructor at the College of the North Atlantic and worked there up until July 2010.

In the four-and-a-half years that we lived in Doha, we have been able to enjoy a life-changing experience in the Middle East. We are so thankful to the many people who paved the way for us and made our stay enjoyable and full of positive experiences that we sometimes cannot believe our good fortune.

My husband and I would like to extend a special thanks to the students that I taught at the college. They were so patient and kind to me during my first months that it was something that I will never forget. There was never a question of mine about Doha, Qatar, Arab traditions, or taboos that they didn’t answer. They explained anything that I wanted to know about Islam by answering my questions, bringing me DVDs, books, or articles that would help explain the customs, cultures, and traditions of this amazing faith.

In turn, I took this knowledge home with me, so my husband learned right alongside me. It was amazing to learn so much about this part of the world – the knowledge was invaluable and very helpful in making our experience in Doha as pleasant as possible.

The students were eager to bring in their country’s favourite foods and drinks to the college every Thursday and it was so enjoyable to share in this event. When it was the instructors’ turn to share some of the Canadian traditional foods, they were very good sports and ate with gusto. There were many Thursdays that my husband was able to attend and they are, by far, our best memories of the time we spent in Doha.

My husband John reaped the benefit of these dear young people because he also came into the college to talk to them about the world-class Sidra Medical and Research Centre. He also gave informative lectures on medical radiography.

What we have taken back to Canada is simply priceless and invaluable: no price can be placed on how this experience has changed us forever. It was truly a life-altering experience for both John and I. No matter who we met, what we experienced in Qatar, John and I are better in every way. To learn about the diverse cultures living in Doha to understanding Islam and all its celebrations and traditions has opened up a huge window of knowledge and understanding. For this alone, we are eternally grateful.

We all know that human beings have different languages, cultures, traditions and faiths, but when it comes down to what life is really all about, we are all so similar in our needs and wants from life. We have been able to put names to faces and places that while living in the Western part of the globe were only flat destinations we pointed to on a map.

We would like to have stayed longer in Doha, but ageing parents, adult children, and grandchildren beckon us home to our beloved country of Canada. All good things must come to an end and we are ready to experience the next chapter in our lives back home.

We would like to thank the people of Doha from all walks of life and cultures for making this experience unbelievable, unforgettable, invaluable, and one that we will cherish and share with others for the rest of our lives.

My husband wants to specifically acknowledge HH Sheikha Moza bint Nasser for all of her efforts in developing Education City and allowing him to be part of the planning team of the Sidra Medical and Research Centre for women and children. This has brought worldwide attention to Doha.

Our only wish is that more people could experience what we have and understand the beauty of diversity and variety and revel in all of it and cherish every moment of our differences and similarities.

Ma’a Salama!

Patti and John Angione'

Link : http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=490580&version=1&template_id=46&parent_id=26

one is laid-off (forced) when the company is closing down or streamlining (precisely many western are in this part of the world, right?). You want some reality-check?

And who said, I am turning blind to the "unfairness" or "getting rid in a blink on an eye". How can you be productive precisely if you focus on such idea? Anywhere you go, you are as good as the company is benefitting from you, once the time comes that another better one or your usefullness is already unusable to the company, you're out. That's the reality of life wherever you go. Unless you own your own company, NO ONE is indespensable in any organization!

jjj75--can you not quit your job also at the blink of an eye?

This is not just about employer-employee. This is about expat resident and the state. To accommodate foreign cultures, the government and citizens gives much flexibility.

And if you think Qatar is the world of Winston, then you really should look for something where you can be happy and express your thoughts without the fears of the thought police. If any place is like 1984 it is the UK or US where the so-called threat of terrorism justifies tracking movements and bugging its millions of Muslim citizens who committed no crimes. You really need to read the book.

No Doha, i have never been laid off. but i have seen people i work with who do a perfectly good job laid off for no good reason, twice I have seen it because someone in the department just did not like them.

I am sure if this happened to you, you would not be very happy, i am pretty sure you would wail and moan about the unfairness of it all, just like everyone else

@PG (post on 05/03/2012 at 1:18 AM)....fantastic, loved it till the smiley...:)

Only insecure and incompetent people are always worried about getting laid off. Are you one of them?

Flor - do you even know or understand what a social contract is between employer and employee?

on another note, I enjoy my job but unlike you, I am not blind to the fact that they can get rid of me in a blink of an eye - fairly or unfairly and then limit my ability to gain further useful employement here - in your view should I appreciate the fairness of this (or unfairness as it happens). No, and it would not happen in the west, that is why we have robust employment laws to prohibit employers treating their employees in this way.

So, in your view, we should stick with a rotten system which abuses workers because in your view, this is qatar and to say any different is just not true because everything is hunky dore in a 1984 Orwellianesque way'

flor1212: AAAH your so adorable ^^

Yankees are soo good at complaining!

it's theirs and their rule. Actually even in the west, this happens.The only difference is that you don't need an NOC. If you focus on the negative side, there are really no fair things in this world. But appreciating SOME good sides, you'll see the brighter aspects of working here!

you never appreciated anything here. Constructive criticism is FINE, but yours is not. MAny of your complaints are done in this virtual world, ooooppps, sorry, not MANY, ALL your complaints are done virtually.

BAck in our democratic country, it's fair and square, can you say that same here? Of course not. So you need to play it their way, never your way. In any organization, there is a pros and cons BUT still there are rules to follow. Even in WARS, certain rules are to be follow because if not, it's not whether you win or lose it, you are stil answerable to your acts.

flor, it is called a social contract between employer and employee, of course I am dedicated, when did I say I was not but equally is my employer dedicated towards me. I have seen many an expat (from all over the globe) after giving years of service just summarily dismissed for no reason and made to leave(and denied an NOC, again for no reason so they can't even get another job here). Where is their dedication towards them, they just want you to go away quietly and make no fuss - does this seem fair to you?

Flor, we pity degenerates like yourself who got no balls to say what is bothering them.

This is why your boss will never promote you and this is why people like us are needed in here. We have balls to raise our hand and say "This is Wrong, Change it!"

If many Flors were brought here when Qatar was still a desert, that desert would have stayed a desert because they would have just appreciated it and not fixed it to be a city.

You can talk out of your butt as much as you want. The truth of the matter is "Followers are born followers and leaders who make a change are born leaders"

Thank you for making us western people shine and thank you for the generous pays we get that you surely don't :)

no emotion, no dedications, nothing. Just work and get your money. I pity you if that is how you live here! And now, I am really not surprised that like you, many put more weighs in complaining rather than appreciating things here! Again, I will say to you and the others with your same thinking, I PITY YOU! Can you even afford to SMILE?

what fictitious QL's, so I made up the spitting on the plate thing did I?

what i do resent is the thought that I should be grateful as if I didn't do anything to deserve my pay. I do an honest days work for an honest days pay - this is not some taking crumbs from the rich mans table and be grateful for it. As I contribute here by spending my hard earned money on over priced goods and services, I think that I deserve the right to say where things are not right and not be ripped off and go meakly about my business.

Doha-Chap2022 :Well said NoMerci Claps!

Well said nomerci. A balanced and honest posting. Most expats i meet have similar views--some things they like, some they don't, but overall they find more in favor and prefer to live in Qatar for the present. Otherwise, they would go somewhere else.

Well, I prefer to live in Qatar than in Europe.

Simply because my life here is easy and carefree.

It is safer here(except for the roads), it is cleaner and I prefer the weather here. (Except for July and August, but I am not here at that time anyway).

Sure, there are things that could be better, but that is the case anywhere.

All in all, Qatar is a good place to live for me.

What a bunch of jealous losers to get on a thread that is positive about Qatar and take offense to it. JJJ75 if went so far as to make up arguments for her opponents and then attack these fictitious QLers. LOL.

DC had it right about spitting in their food. Good analogy. Too many expats on QL feel entitled to their jobs and wealth. Qatar opens its country provides good jobs, safe living for their families, and even gives great flexibility in laws and customs to make Western expat professionals welcome--compounds, lands for churches, alcohol, pork, etc. etc. And what do they complain about? Not ENOUGH money! Not ENOUGH alcohol! Not ENOUGH opportunities to go half-naked in public. Of course, they do it all anonymous on QL because they would not be so bold publicly for fear of being fired and sent back to where they came from.

Pfff! Obiovusly you are still so caught up in this small bubble you have formed around yourself “Yankee land is the best” blinkered!

Aaron, this is QL...and meet these distinguish QLers :(

Ok Sheila relaxe now!! Sit down and tell us What do you have against Qatar? They are very cultured people and I find it disgusting that ignoramuses such as yourself continue to disrespect this country. Grango!

Since dag Yankees ran out of money and had to travel for work in countries they used to look down upon?

Like seriously, do you at least read these words of wisdom before you post them to the public?

This is your logic, which you keep repeating:

1- Saying anything bad about Qatar is bad

2- Western people who work here moved here because they had no other choice in life.

3-If you don't like it here, go back home.

This is my logic:

1- civilized people take criticism consecutively, even in their personal life to get better and not have the same flaws. "You might wanna read that again"..

2- Western people, get paid a LOT because of what they bring. Without them, the whole country would think like you do and not get any better.

3-IF you don't like hearing us complain, log off and maybe try to date. Dating is good.

Seriously man, knock off our backs like 2 days a week? is that too much to do? Grant us your precious silence every once in a while.

Full of _ _ _ _

TB - FOS????

DC is FOS

Since dag Yankees ran out of money and had to travel for work in countries they used to look down upon.

DC, since when was spitting in food prior to eating it considered a laid back thought process?

Sigh! Yankees! Always grouchy and sarky.

how abt u take a chill pill?

Cheerio!

Doha-Chap is a funt.

There is a difference between trying to always sound unique to stand out of the crowd and to sound stupid to the point where people lose interest in even arguing with you.

Yes Qatar is better place than Paris and Saying ANYTHING wrong about it is considered spitting in the plate you eat from.

Are you happy now Doha-Chap?

I wonder if you think Qatari people's farts smell at all? Maybe not. Maybe they smell like flowers???!

GET A LIFE!

hahaha, TB me too, everytime i go somewhere else, i always look back to coming home to DOHA.

Others may find the place boring, i find it a seren place to be considered a home. Without the hustle and bustle dubai has.

I agree that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder- but sorry to say..I am seeing this country as dull and boring :( nothing special, nothing fancy... It's just fine.

lifeless, colorless, funless :( where ever you go., what you will see is the same sand coloured building... lol (though west bay is starting to have some hues of blue..)

But it's not that bad here though, there are beautiful people (i meant inner and outer beauty) and good income. i guess it's what makes living in Qatar somehow beautiful. :)

well qatar is good to live with family here..otherwise its very boring.

its clam and peaceful country.

Doha -chap2022 in response to your comment "Some people like to spit in the very plate they eat from

Aaaah how it amazes me!" -

This is not some serfdome deal for most of us (unfortunately it is the grim reality for some). It is called a fair exchange of pay for labour. just because we get paid, does not mean we owe our employers or this country our external dying gratitude like they did us some massive favour and never allowed to voice our opinions - it is an equal partnership . I would not for instance expect my employers undying gratitute that I turn up for work every day, we do a fair days work, they pay us fairly accordingly.

But I am now waiting for the comments about how some of us are not worth the money we are paid etc or that we are lazy etc etc. That is a debate for another day.

Good on ya aaronborleo... that's the spirit. When I first came out here I was bored out of my mind. So I signed up for a sailing course at The Regatta Sailing Academy. QR 900 for an 8 week course of 2 hours a week. Bingo... I was no longer board, and was enjoying a new experience. By the time the course ended I had met new people, had friends here in Qatar, and my social life was beginning. 3 years on and I consider Qatar home. When I fly for work or pleasure, I look forward to coming home to Qatar at the end.

Some people like to spit in the very plate they eat from

Aaaah how it amazes me!

regardless of where you are; happiness is a state of mind and needs the right perspective..one can read each reply to this post and easily get a measure of what perspective that person has on life in general..some chose to open their minds and see the good around them and others seek to be miserable themselves and also put a damper on someone's spirits when they create a post about being happy here..to the original poster; welcome buddy and hope you keep having a good time:-)

I big welcome to you. I am pleased you are finding peace and happiness in Qatar. It is wonderful place.

enough said. To each his own.

but I do find beauty in a lot of things around Qatar. Yeah sure the country where I was born was scenic in terms of natural beauty as well, but I do find the view from my apartment in Qatar of the corniche and surrounding buildings, very lovely indeed. And I find the malls in Qatar, the Aspire park, the mangroves of Thakira, the beaches specially at dawn, the inland sea, etc all to be very beautiful places, though in very contrasting ways. Have I seen better elsewhere around the world? Obviously. But that sure won't stop me from admiring what I see of eye candy here.

Qatar, as mentioned before, can be heaven for some, hell for some, and nonchalant for some as well. Personally for me,Thanks be to God, it's heaven as I have never been as happy and content as I am here,ever in my life. And I do find living here peaceful and privileged compared to anywhere else I've lived/visited before.So hope aaronborleo will always find happiness and contentment here as would his wife and family when they get here,Insha Allah!

Welcome. Hope you can bring your family and enjoy your stay.

Beautiful? lol

hahah am I missing something here?

I would say making money is beautiful in here. If you think Qatar is beautiful, then you either have not been anywhere else in this world, or you are on extremely potent drugs that I would not mind to try :)

Hold on to that hope of bringing your family in Qatar, and make it happen. Welcome to Qatar and see you in QL :)

there are many amusements here but needs money. me by the way found a ground of bmx riders where i belong...find ways to have fun

Well, You at least you thought one thing right and that is ,,,, BORING. No fun!!!!No where to go..... :(

Yeah, these countries are beautiful as long as U overcome your starvation (in terms of money), once U get full till stomach U'll have different story.

Just wait for over paid crowd here. ;)

Beautiful? Sorry, I must have missed the mountains, rivers, trees and lakes. All I see is sand, rocks and dust.

If you think this country is beautiful, you really need to see a bit more of the world.

It's a beautiful country...ask me ... I've been here for 7 years and loving it :)

Welcome to Qatar