Your opinions pls
Hi Everyone. I am curious... do you think it is possible for India to implement 1 or 2 or 3... whatever the number is ... restriction on a number of children couples can have... similar to what they did in China ? The reason why I am asking about India is because it is still one of the fastest growing populations in the world (in absolute value... not percentage wise)
My thinking is along these lines:
- India exhibited excelletn economic growth and it appears that people lives are improving
- However the gap in incomes is growing wider
- Inflation makes it even more difficult for people who are not part of the boom to buy necessities
- Simple math tells us that if country's growth say 5% GDP increase, and inflation say 3.5% or so...then the actual improvement is 1.5%... and if the birth rate surpases the REAL GDP growth then the people are actually getting poorer
So the only way to prosperity is either grow GDP even more... or reduce the birth rate (population growth). Growing GDP is good... but there is only that much one can do and it depends on many variables.
What I am saying if Indian population did not grow the incomes per capita would actually rise a lot quicker... so there would be less population growth... but whoever is born would have a decent and dignifying life.
Do you think Indian government.. considering its weaknesses... and in particular decentralized power distribution... and considering popular believes that people have the right to have as many kids as they want...wouold be able at some point of time to curb the population growth.
Btw... nothing against India.. it just fits perfectly well the profile of my question...
We've to bring in a
for all that ...
MM... on the subject of loving India.... if you love it... then you should care how well your people live... i have been to india many times... and if you can live better... why deprive yourself ? There is a lot of pride going on... but you don't built a sustainable and prosperous society on pride alone... it is only one of the ingridients.... and the funny part is when the local demands come forward petitioners / protesters... forgiet about pride... they want a good life... and for that... you need better planning
MM.... nothing to do with bolts and nuts... this is not a repair shop... we are talking about Economics.... and economical prosperity... and factors affecting it... and peace, etc
Arien... very good point !! In my opinion so far the best suggestion.
Please don't treat humans like nuts & bolts ...
For loving India so much , keep smiling ....
Best way to manage this situation is , imposing additional taxes and removing subsidies and facilities. Only the first two children should be eligible and the rest should be parents responsibility.
AB... business people are just trying to secure future for themselves and their families.. the problem is that in pursuit of thata security they are willing to screw over other people.. and again... that's not sustainable...
But regardless of social inequalities the resources are limitted... the land is limitted.... the minerals and fossil fuel are limitted... etc etc... so if the trend continues... there will be no earth as we know it... and whoever is left... will be fighting for resources like animals
Business men takes all the profit... Not all people are business men!... If theres no profit theres no business ...
Child is God's gift.. no doubt that... but does not mean we should abuse it... we are just one specie on the earth... happened to be lucky enough to be on the top of the food chain... should not abuse that position...
Brit... that is one part of solution... very much agree so... but then the other side is constain... cause the more competition for resources... the more predatory attitude ... for instance... why we dont have electrical cars..... the technology was available long time ago... because it is not in the interests of oil companies...
1. Exchanging one mouth to two hands is not always a good trade... considering that people don't only need bread and water for decent existence
2. Policy makers make such point to get the votes.. cause in the end they dont really care... as long as their family is fed...
3. My interest in India is due to personal circumstances... and the large audience that can asnwer the questions from an insider perspectives
i wanted to post all my wrttings together but u know its only 700 max....itys better to read together...
TB - it is not going to be easy... as cultural changes ... even corporate cultural changes and transformations are very difficult... but sometimes necessary... the problem is most people dont understand basic principles of economics...
take UK for instance... they are implementing budget cuts to cover budget deficit... the government extended social services when times were good.. but now when they need to tighten the belt. the measures are rather unpopular. why.. because majority dont get it. plus people get used to luxury easy.. and downgrading is painful. Greece is the same.. they got used to lavish... and now not wanna go back to econimical... blaming Germany that pulls the locomotive
The answer is solar power and elevcetric cars..
i did mention about the death rate...consider all the situations...predators medical sickness....this is our situaiton gonna be..my amoeba story did not miss a point...if u read the whole thing u wud aviously understand that 70 years is calculated after considering the death rates by predators or sickness or watever means...
second point is that i didnot say i wait for God to show us some wonders..i wanted to highlight to the point that the decisions made by government and by people arent making much of changes....not even by saying we 2 our 2....if der is any other way plz let us know...
India can never follow one child policy like china, never!
China is dictatorial.
on a lighter note, In India a child is gift from God (and you can't mess with God), in China...wallahi i dont... (i'm in awe of their manufacturing prowess.... :)
snakky21, that's point of view of policy makers, and i tend to agree with them; bythe way ONE mouth brings TWO hands with it :)
bytheway, what makes you so interested in India?
1. More hands is not always better.... more hands means also more mouths.... more resource needs... less personal space.. less land.... more polution... lower quality of life... it aint sustainable
2. You got a point about GDP.... but if GDP growth at the expense of inflation.. it is not a real growth.. it is just growth in the value of products and services.... and finally the important part is purchasing power of consumers... and that does not improve simeply with GDP growth.. it improves with GDP growth and low inflation
Of course it is not a simple math... there are many factors and variables... but the overall trend and relationship are valid
Thinking only for today to calm the hungry stomachs, without looking forward for what will happens in the future , is like putting each others necks in the guillotines, one hand holding it ready anytime to release and cut each other necks. Population / birth control is still the best solution with proper mandate of the govnt. in their respective country or those countries with people who always in need, educate them until the last poor family standing, standing means capable to changes their lives, it should be applied but not artificially means , Im pro life , but proper information about chaos it will make with over population in the future.
UEQ... any suggestions ?
TB10.. did not say it can be done overnight.... but the reality is no serious actions are being taken on this end... and btw... it is not only India... it is other developing countries as well....
I personally think it is selfish if parents know they can not provide decent life to their children and still opt for having them... i mean.. 1 or 2 or may be ...3... but not that many
Do you not want people to live better ? Do u not want lower crime ? Do u not want to live longer and healthier? Do you not want to save the earth ?
Btw... India growth rate is 1.41% whereas some African countries growthrate is between 3-4%... so India is not a lead... just an example
It's simply unfair to say "Simple math tells us that if country's growth say 5% GDP increase, and inflation say 3.5% or so...then the actual improvement is 1.5%..."
if inflation is 10% than does that mean growth is negative, No sir, there's a relationship between Inflation & GDP/GNP (for shorter periods) but not so linearly and in longer period they’ve no relations; a high GDP is what required, inflation is kind of product of high GDP.
major factor (next stage of eco boom) has to be/will be GDP growth revival of Agri sector, from 2-3 % to 8-10%, I bet it'll happen by end of 12th plan (2017).
Sanjay Gandhi did the same in Mid 70s,
by 90's Indian policymakers rather took population explosion as boon than curse, IMO rightly so;
having more working hands is not bad, if you equip them well. post 90s growth trajectory shows benefits of this paradigm shift.
1. MM... you can compare growth rate in Spain with growth rate in India (absolute values)... all European countries together would not make up for Indian growth... in fact Europe population declining due to decline in other states.
2. Sazadi... your Ameba example missing something.. you see all animals have natural predators... who keep the animal numbers in check... the only predator we have are human themselves
What is the point to wait for natural disasters, ,wars, murders etc to "fix" the problem... if we can fix it on the other end... why wait until we self destroy.. and suffer... and etc etc it is just dumb... and then poor families complain that they have 9 kids and nothing to feed
Govts interfering in the bedrooms' activities .... LOL.
Are they talking about a ZOO ?
In the present day Europe there is everything we look for in India like education & awareness ....
But still for example people of Spain , Greece , Italy etc can't find a place to work ... means so much [ 25 % in some cases ] population is just passing time in idle and not doing anything because they'r unemployed so what's their contribution towards society ?
So, what I want to express is that even education & awareness combined has failed to work ...
Now the question is how can we control the popultaion.i think its better in the hands of the God...he has programmed the world in a beautiful way..thats the reason we face earthquakes and tornados and all other natural disasters,shakes the popultaion to get it set well heheh anyways,the government should make sex to be only in winter season hahah and not more den one child.its quite suicidal.
are we at the time of the click wen the popltion is gonna double it self?..now if i introduce another jar at 12 pm..wen will the second jar be filled?...at 12.01pm.exactly one minute.holy.now if God blessed us with another india that came up newly from the sea hahah.it wudint take much time to get that new india to be filled up.
It is prooved by the results that presently there is no one with the required calibre ..
It's not by waiting only ....
If i find the population of the amoeba to be filled up till the edge at 12 pm...wen do u think it to be exactly half?..the answer is exactly inute minute earlier that is at 11.59.now the amoeba is the human being.if we consider the death rate tobe so negligible bcause of advancement in medical field both the situations can be considered as same.the population wud double in 70 yrs time period, thats is the lifetime of a human being...now the population of india is in billions..by the next 70 yrs.it will be unimaginable square foot for an individaula person ..cud be even inches.think abt it
hmmm.but to my calculations and belive implementing such rules of having lesser children wudint bring much change to the increasing population.For intance lets assume the life of an amoeba and a human being having the same perspective in reproduction.Amoeba doubles itsself in every set period and a human produces 2 kids max if set by the government. studies says that it takes 70 years ( lifetime of a person ) to double the population in india( considering the gdp, birth rates, death rates ).if i set an example considering the amoeba wud give u a little bit of idea.For instance i keep an ameoba in a jar at 11am.the amoeba double itself in every minute.
So.... the question is... how to implement it i guess... what can be done ... and how it can be done... I am assuming may be more education in rural areas... more awareness sessions... financial incentives... who would be able to lead such a campaigne ?
Yep, specially if we have to wait for that all powerful, all knowledgeable to be born someday...tough call for the govts.
Good Idea very hard to implement though!
snaky...who makes the politicains, politically dead? I guess it is us, the people.
MM... what is that supposed to mean... there are no people with meris already being born... this sounds like... let's have lots of babies... just because one of them could be great... that solution leads to a disaster.... you thin among 7 billion people on the earth... adn 1.3 billion in India there are not bight enough people.... that we need more people ?
HGL... i think there were some attempt to raise this issue in India... but anyone whoever touches this "sacred" subject.... becomes politically dead... so what happens is politicians are simply "riding the waves" on popular believes... to their own riches... I mean I see corruption at ever level... i see people being treated in a non-dignifying manner... i see prejudice towards certain groups... I see poor and sometime uneducated people deprived of their rights... if they were middle class... and educated... and did not have to worry about food all the time... they could participate in social movement.. and in shaping their country for common good... instead rich do whatever they want
we should not stop people coming into this world ....
There'll be The One among them with the merits & solution for solving the problems of not only India ....
Ok MM... what is the answer then ? Everyone says India is one of the most democratic countries.. but from an outsider perspective it does not seem that way... i mean may be it is... but people tearing it into parts... interested only in pursuing local interests... rather than nation wide...
Also how is growing population is not a threat to quality of life in India ?
Good point. However, you have also correctly noted the difficulties, mindsets though I would say it is not a popular belief to have as many kids as possible, there is more to it.
need a real person to be born to lead India so controling population is not the answer for us ..
I'am saying for decades that