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Even compiling from the source is not very difficult, most of the software uses autoconf/automake....
$ tar -xvzf package-1.2.3.tar.gz && cd package-1.2.3 && ./configure && make && sudo make install && cd .. && rm -rf package-1.2.3
A single command line does it all :) (Haven't used this kind of thing in years, but it's unforgettable)
I still love the way it automatically downloads and updates ALL the packages, and upgrade for the whole distro in Ubuntu (every 6 months), click, wait a few hours, upgraded.
installing programs under linux has become a whole lot easier these days.
in the old days, you used to compile the stuff from the codes. not all you need is to choose it from the list or install the deb file (debian flavors).
having a biiig list of programs you can choose from is a plus for end users. all they need to do is search the keywords or browse then click and apply. the system downloads the latest version from the net and installes it for them.the plus side is that you do not need to search for updates for each program you install like in windows. the system does that automatically, so you always have the latest version.
I think that Windows' supremacy on the desktop is due to Microsoft's anti-competitive practices and agreements with the hardware vendors. It doesn't make it right.
I prefer to see a multi-cultural IT: Linux (Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora, Slackware, Debian, ...), Windows, MacOS, Solaris, FreeBSD, .... and many others.
This is what I was trying to tell them but here are some people, they say no 90% people are wrong and those who are sitting in their wells, are right :)
Again I will say, ownership is very important and then marketing and customer care is more important even. The companies who owns Linux/UNIX, they are fine, like MAC, RedHat, SUSE, etc.... but open source, it sucks.....
Guys you don't have to dig into the web to find for statistics. Go to Carrefour, Lulu, or other electronic stores in Doha. Most laptops comes pre-installed with win OS. Some are sold without OS, others have Linux installed and sold cheaper than those with windows. But people buying these laptops almost always end up installing unlicensed copies of windows. And believe me they are very well aware of Microsoft's piracy policy, but who cares. The OS is easy to use and widely accepted.
Indeed linux is a very robust OS specially for server apps. I was administering slackware linux from 2000 to 2005, used it for our file server, Apache, MySQL, Squirelmail for our email server [atleast until I left the company :)], our local RDBMS Postgres, and a whole lot of server apps. It is very very stable, we sometimes just force a restart once a month just to refresh the servers.
However most end users still prefer to use windows over linux, due to the simple fact that they are at ease with it, & resist change. SIMPLE...
Cost is neither an issue anymore, at least here in Doha. No individual has been imprisoned for being caught using unlicensed windows, that is as far as I know. Majority of the big companies here are also using unlicensed copy. So whats the big deal.
BOTTOM LINE? Windows is still widely accepted as an end user platform. Linux performs well as a server, but still lacks most of the features that windows has to offer. One example is program installation. You have to read tons of readme files to install a simple program in linux. In windows? The plain old "SETUP.EXE"
Well less people to prefer to buy mac books I guess it's because they are different in this world well there's a need for Linux developers to do marketing people won't buy it becoz they are free they guess what ever they get free are cheap. Hope one day Linux will be well known.
Always end results matter, let’s see what will happen in future... History proves that Microsoft is ruling for many many years and their users (techie and non-techie) are not decreasing but keep increasing...... Whatever u use in your personal laptop or home pc, never change world's opinion...
I think I gave wrong stats before, according to CNET, 92% OS are still Windows in this world. Mac's shared is increased from 5.17 to 5.27 in 6 months..
only thing i notice about ubunto is its FREE and cube effect. If they can at least have decent games compatible with it then i will say bye bye windows
OK lets assume the guys using Windows....and loving it.... have paid for their Adobe & MS Office softwares and also all the Audio and Video Editing softwares too!
I moved my main machine to Ubuntu after I've been using XP for 100 years, hated Vista, and then noticed that the main apps I use on it are Firefox, Pidgin, VLC (All open source, all available in Linux).
Then I notice that the Gimp does most of the stuff I did in Photoshop, Inkscape does most of the stuff I did in Illustrator... Just different keystrokes and menus.
I edit MS Office documents in OpenOffice, but I still prefer to use iWork on the Mac.
As I mentioned earlier, many professional programs don't run on Windows. I used Emagic's Logic Audio until 2003 on a PC with Windows. 2003 Emagic sold themselves to Apple, the program was abandonned for Windows. Every recording studio was forced to swap to McIntosh if they wanted to continue to use Emagic's Logic Audio. And of course they did. Reason for the sale: Windows is not compatible with the demanding real-time effects (or plug-ins) which are a vital part of studio work. It's not the hardware (Apple runs on Intel CPUs meanwhile). It's the fu**** up concept of Windows which makes it unusable for professional work. As I also said earlier, Windows is perfect for Indian housewives.
the day finally came when I had to reformat my laptop and couldnt activate the OS (windows obviously). the OS was legit and I had paid my taxes to microsoft and no it was only used on that laptop ever. the guy on the phone asked me some questions that I could not answer because I was out of the office blah blah blah.
and I was desperately in need of doing some very critical work. I ended up doing it on a LiveCD booted linux system. with the files on the hard drive that I used to open in windowes.
I was lucky that I knew about the choice available and now have a livecd with me at all times, and one on the USB and one on the emergency folder at the office.
It was a day that profoundly changed my attitude to how I do work with computers.
if there is something I can not do in linux for free that I really need, I will gladly pay a couple of programmers in the community to have that peace of code written for me under GPL. thus it will always be available and free.
nearly all apps I use are OS independent now. simply because they are opensource or made available by parent companies and thus can and have been ported to windows and BSD and linux and mac and some to whatever phoneos there is. OR are web2.0 thus can be reached through a browser.
Who is moving away from the linux os on netbooks? I have not seen that happening. to the contrary, though slow, I have seen more and more people installing linux at least as dualboot on their computers.
well thats some more keystrokes for you, but I write as I have some free time to kill. :)
Correction Zenix should have read Xenix (it's been a while you know).
Your statement "I personally use Linux, Windows, and MacOS. Each one where it makes sense. Most people only know one flavor: Windows." :::: Each one where it makes sense :::: Good man, at last... that is what I have been saying all along!!
Can't be bothered to argue against you bleu. The whole IT industry is wrong and you are right.
Linux does some jobs really well. But it is never going to replace windows on the desktop/laptop. The netbook saga proved that. Manufactures put Linux on their netbooks and everyone hated it. So they are moving away from it again. And yes I know Chrome OS is built on Linux, but we have yet to see how that shapes up.
When Linux first arrived in force I was over the moon. I had been trained on Zenix (Microsoft's flavour of Unix) back in 1985 and couldn't wait for Windows to get a bloody nose. However no mater how hard I tried, I still ended up going back to windows for desktop apps. You are a Linux enthusiast or should I say Hacker. Most people don't want to be enthusiasts of an operating system. They just want to do their job.
But I know I have just wasted a load of keystrokes on you, because you will not listen.
I am not giving references from any where.. I am telling you my experiences... What are you telling it's all bookish and theoretical... Practically things are different..
Linux jobs are well paid but how many jobs are in the market? How many jobs are being created by Linux? If there are only few hundreds, those will be well paid for sure but then luck comes before skills in this type of probability.
In contrast, there are many many jobs for Microsoft industry, i.e. Windows Sys Admins, Active Directory and DNS Admins, Exchange Admins, SharePoint Admins, Microsoft Solution Architects, MS Solution Consultants, MS Security Consultants, etc etc.... BTW, these are all mid level jobs. I didn't mention top and technician level jobs.
Then there are many technologies which are being offered by Microsoft that again creates jobs in the market, i.e. Desktop OS, Server OS, Databases, .NET, Windows Embedded systems, Windows Phones, Biz Talk technologies, Data Center protection, Operations Manager, System center, MS Virtualization, SharePoint technologies, Unified Communications, Forefront technology, HPC and Parallel computing, File services, failover clustering, Hyper V technology, developer references, etc etc.....
It is a separate world...
Now if I remain in Linux, up to what extent can I go further? Linux jobs and tasks are fixed coz it is being used in specific organizations and environments.
Bleu said, 90% people are wrong, WOW!!! Great!! How could 10% prove themselves right? :)
I'd just like to point out that you can try most flavors of linux without even installing it on the computer.
ubuntu cds for example can boot from CD without touching the hard drive. and you can install progs from the net and surf and whatever. then when you reboot and remove the CD, its like before.
of course in the process you may like it so much that you decide to install it. and that is only a few clicks away.
but it works straight out from the CD without installing. handy as a recovery cd. even for recovering windows. he he. :)
Linux OS are generally more compatible than both windows and MAC OS's. they stick to the standards/guidelines. win and mac try to keep the users with vendor lockdown.
you can buy support for any linux distro you like if you are not happy with the open community. I understand that enterprises have to have a support they pay for business standard practices and they have it available from various companies. you dont like one? change to another. can you do that with windows? and windows support is crappy as can be. "sorry sir, that is closed source, we cant change that line of code to do that or incorporate this. you have to wait maybe 3 years for the next Os, then and only then MAYBE you will have what you are asking for. meanwhile, keep using us thank you."
you also have the peace of mind that as a corporate user you have the option to always have the data/system control with you and are not forced to update/degrade your OS to keep support.
I am not sure from where you get your information.
When you say that you switched from linux system administration job profile to Windows administration due to lack of scope then I guess you have not explored linux well. Linux admins are well paid and most sort after professionals since.
Apache an open source (not owned by any one company) runs 47% of the worlds websites against 21% for microsoft product. (courtesy http://news.netcraft.com/)
If I am not mistaken this very site runs on a LAMP(Apache, Linux MySQL, PHP) platform which is again all open source and free products.
Linux blends well with windows network. You will be able to see and access windows networks and workgroups without much effort. Samaba ( the program that helps in networking with windows) comes installed and well configured with Ubuntu.
Linux networking is much better and advanced than windows as it is predominantly a network oriented operating system from the beginning.
The driver management is much simpler in linux. around 80% of the hardwares are supported out of the box. Most of the drivers are created by linux enthusiast and volunteers working over time.
I find that software management is much better and easier in linux than in windows. all the softwares are available on the package manager. just have to click on the software that you want to install and then click on a button and you are done. It will download the required files and install it for you. now downloading double clicking, forward next clicking etc.
Out of the box multimedia looks better in windows because many are proprietary codecs and there are legal issues to use them. But you can always download the required codecs install it from the repositery.
When you make a statement that all latest softwares run on windows it means you are not aware of the softwares that are available for linux.
As far as distribution is concerned it is a personal choice. You can choose the one you want depending on which one you feel comfortable.
I am not sure why you want to stick to the paid distro concept. Most of the linux web servers running on the net is not paid distros. But they employ paid admins with good linux Know how. this has the advantage that you are not vendor locked.
I just want to give my idea. The main idea behind linuzzo (linux) is that you can get things your way. Nobody decides in your place how your system MUST be configured, what programs it MUST have.
Of course, IF you can program your own programs, drivers,ecc. you have the chanche to possess your computer fully, deciding everything.
Well if 80% people are wrong then you have to work hard to prove your statements dude :)
Now a days I use Chrome only... Before Chrome I use Firefox and IE both... because still many sites do not work on FireFox and it has memory leakage issues as well but IE has its issues as well..
i switched to linux ystrday, and it seems so fast and less frustrating
with vista, i always had probs with my wifi network being disconctd often and then had to restart computer. also, my office wud take long time to open and windows explorer restarts every now n then
Well I agree and use as well but as I told you that problem is compatibility with whole world. We are living in this world and have to use it. For example, in my organization, I cannot use MAC only because whole infrastructure is Windows based so therefore if have support its infrastructure and their compatible apps...
Everyone say that Windows 7 or its previous versions are replica of Mac OS. Then why not 80% people use Mac? Can you answer this question? The only reason, they neva think about users' easiness. They used to launch their OS on only specific hardware so therefore those machines were expensive and still they are expensive... and when they came to know this fact and launched it on Intel based hardware, it was too late!
What Microsoft did, they think about non-techie users. They assure whole world that everyone can use computer machine... therefore it is adopted by everyone....
You can verify on internet or from anyone else, 80% people use Windows or Microsoft products and 16% use Linux based OS or products. Only 4% use MAC or others...
Why it's like that? Maybe I am biased or few others, what about the whole world?
You are not getting my point... Companies are running mix environment (our is also the example and we are running SUSE) but they are running paid versions because they need ownership of those OS so that they can get back to them in case of any issue...
If I have to pay for any OS, I will go with MS product for sure...
UBUNTU is not offering anything new.... If the old command line interface is the best (as most of the companies are running that interface), why UBUNTU is in market because they offered interface like MAC and Windows, thats why people are using it.. If you are talking about Linux, its real flavor and powerful features are in its command line... why people are using UBUNTU because it is new but remember it looks like Windows..... Now when Windows 7 is in market. I can bet, UBUNTU will change their interface like Windows 7...
Thats why I already said when any OS is trying to look like another one, why not the master one?
Am I biased? I have asked the question and you asked a counter question... So who was biased? I have used Linux as well. I was the Linux System Administrator but it's scope was very limited so therefore I switched my career. I have used Linux deeply. May be you have used Linux as a consumer or non-techie user but I have done it as IT professional.
I know Linux is a powerful OS but as I told you that no one owns it so therefore you never find it's official help and support. Someone has given the examples of Google, and other big companies. They are all using paid Linux flavors, i.e. SUSE or RedHat therefore they get support and documentation as well.
If you use Linux professionally in enterprise, u will find it difficult in the organizations where Windows and Linux are mixed used. There is no organization or company in the world where only Linux is being used. Networking or network printing is always a problem in mixed Windows and Linux peer environments, Linux do not work with Windows Active Directory systems, Windows offers most powerful GUI controls for hardware and settings but Linux still lacks in it, driver management is far easy in Windows with compare to Linux, software installation is also easier in Windows than Linux where every distros has different methods, disk partitioning and its table is confusing in Linux, multimedia is better in Windows than Linux, availability and installation of games is still confusing as well, all latest software are available for Windows but not for Linux, and top of that which distro should be used, is still curiosity for many users.
I must say here that Linux is good for Servers and Embedded system but as I said before only paid distros.
I am not saying that u cannot do anything with Linux, maybe u can but in what time? Time is crucial. Linux is not for non-techie users but Windows does.
yup i love linus as they r fast in updating their os.
windows is damn slow.they actually take years to develop one.
well i still am worried .
i have a hp laptop which has a recovery disk where all drivers and and it softwares are preinstall.just incase any prob with windows i can format within 30 minutes.
now the thing with linux.
i just want to get some drivers of my windows then trey installing linux.
now if any1 can tell me that without installing linux i can test it like i tried for solaris.
Well I have asked question first so it should answer first as well :)
I have many examples and internet references... I will not give the internet references of any companies... Personal blogs are the best source of reviews because those people are not being paid by anyone to review their products, they are the geeks who just want to blog their experiences...
burnout I know... but it's been a long time now. Linux isn't the new kid on the block any more. Honestly I really did want to swap to Linux, but like I said earlier in this thread I need Adobe products. And I don't want to have to switch between virtual machines, and I don't want to run emulators, I just want an operating system that does the job.
Yes Linux is free, but it hasn't taken over the world yet, after all this time you have to ask yourself WHY?
seeing what you wrote I believe most of you work for microsoft. :)
most information if any given are from microsoft sites. that is biassed.
a lot of information if not from the site are madeup.
"Over 80% of Mac users told microsoft that they would recommend windows7"??? that is your killer argument?
Mac is not linux.
I guess supposed Mac users have had the question asked as: what if you dont have a Mac OS, nor a Linux OS, nor DOS, what would you suggest a ten year old to use?
there is nothing I can do in windows that I can not do in linux. the flavor of linux I use is Ubuntu. there is a ton of stuff I do under linux that I need to pay huge sums to do in windows. I am not so rich as to throw money out the window.
IBM, Oracle, google, and quite an extensive list of companies use linux.
you can download ubuntu from www.ubuntu.com
please at least take the time to read (very short): http://www.webhostingsearch.com/articles/introduction-to-linux-flavors.php
or check: http://distrowatch.com/ if you really want to get into detail.
you can do a google search with the keyworks "linux flavors" to find others. maybe one you will like more.
if you want, you can try it without installing it to your computer.
it runs straight from CD or from under windows with wubi or from USB disk.
the community is great. it is very helpful, very knowledgeable. you can get live help through IRC if your question has not been answered in a help forum.
try it out. then you will have a more informed decision.
najamss thank you for clearing that up, excellent information.
bleu come on man, I don't want to mess around with having to keep swapping operating systems. Linux is fine for enthusiasts and for people that have all the applications they will ever need running on it.
If Ubuntu is trying to look like Windows, why not then Windows? There is no point that one OS is trying to look like another, I would prefer the master one.....
The problem with Linux is that, no one owns it. The best Linux version is RedHat but it is also paid, owned by Redhat....
If there is an any OS that is flawless and error free, how could the jobs will be created. Then only one or two persons are enough to run these type of error free stable OS.
Linux is still far away from Microsoft... Microsoft has lots of experts, certified, R&D, Help and Support, blogs, videos, trainings... It is very difficult to compare Windows with Linux......
Here are some statistics:
More than a billion people around the world use Windows every day, and millions have provided input on what they want to see in an operating system. This feedback was built into the product.
Windows 7 saw the largest beta testing program in the history of the industry, with 8 million testers worldwide.
People from more than 113 countries downloaded the Windows 7 beta.
Microsoft conducted more than 16,000 online interviews directly aimed at helping us identity, test and validate scenarios and features for Windows 7.
More than 2,600 customers participated in user research and usability studies for Windows 7.
More than 40,000 hours of Windows 7 usage was logged from external user research field trials (through Microsoft's Living with Windows program in which users were recruited to provide an understanding of how they use Windows 7).
Microsoft received product instrumentation and usage data from millions of PCs in more than 200 countries and regions around the world that help Microsoft Corp. better understand how its customers use its software. Windows 7 includes input from more than a billion user sessions.
Survey (sample size 1,999 people):
90% of Release Candidate testers rated Windows 7’s quality as "good" or "extremely good."
91% of Release Candidate testers told Microsoft they would recommend Windows 7.
90% perceive Windows 7 as responsive, simple to use and stable.
Over 80% of Mac users told Microsoft that they would recommend Windows 7.
"I love the idea of Linux and the ethos behind it." that was me. And I do love the idea... but for people who work with the rest of the world, compatibility is an issue
Windows Vista SP2, sorry Windows 6.1, (they also call it Windows 7) is ok for Windows.
I prefer Linux (Karmic Koala is what I'm using right now).
I have an OpenSolaris VM, zfs is great there...
It's always a matter of choice,
You will get Windows Geeks advising how great it is but for features,features, customization, and freedom and ease of use Ubuntu all the way... (We get a new release every 6 months :P apt-get dist-upgrade, or click the button in the update manager if you prefer).
I love the idea of Linux and the ethos behind it. And indeed when it comes to servers Linux is very popular because it is cheap and allows economical LAMP development. However I need applications from Adobe, and I also need 100% MS Office. I know there are tons of similar apps available for Linux, and yes I know about Open Office, GIMP and the likes. But to get the job done quickly and have easy collaboration with the rest of the world I just have to stay with MS. The media love windows 7 and from what I read it makes up for the Vista shambles. I am just waiting for the correct opportunity to install windows 7 on my development environment.
you can download redhat,ubuntu etc from the internet and can use it either as a live cd or install directly in the pc i installed it in vmware workstation and it works fine good for learning and knowing it.
any tom dick and harry can learn windows. i really want to try mac
I just bought a Laptop...and installed XP on it....(Dont want no Vista, Dont want no Win 7)
I will also be installing Ubuntu Linux on it as the second OS.
By the looks of it I will be using it even after Microsoft has stopped support for it. Until MS comes out with a OS version I would REALLY want to upgrade.
Windows 7 is the Best Operating System since well ever. Linux.Solaris and OSX are minority Operating systems which have little support by the mass market.
You will get Linux Geeks advising how great it is but for features,Support and ease of use Windows 7 all the way.
I have used it since first public Beta and Never an issue.I dont see where Risky comes from.
Beware of the Linux and Mac Fanboys.
"solaris is good not as much as linux" Same thing really PWND
i ll go for windows as it is widely marketed product but u should also learn linux mac and other os to have overall knowledge for servers i think linux is the best as it is more secure than windows
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Ubuntu Qatar Local team launched. We can join there to help each other, contribute, participate in different ways to make the team successful. The team need contributors. Search in Google for "Ubuntu Qatar". Ubuntu Qatar has Forum, Mailing list, LoCo Web Portal to join with this team, Wiki and IRC. Please Join to participate.
Even compiling from the source is not very difficult, most of the software uses autoconf/automake....
$ tar -xvzf package-1.2.3.tar.gz && cd package-1.2.3 && ./configure && make && sudo make install && cd .. && rm -rf package-1.2.3
A single command line does it all :) (Haven't used this kind of thing in years, but it's unforgettable)
I still love the way it automatically downloads and updates ALL the packages, and upgrade for the whole distro in Ubuntu (every 6 months), click, wait a few hours, upgraded.
check out the help file below.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
Burnout.
Beware! :)
Then how about installing Linux from flash drive
Burnout.
Beware! :)
installing programs under linux has become a whole lot easier these days.
in the old days, you used to compile the stuff from the codes. not all you need is to choose it from the list or install the deb file (debian flavors).
having a biiig list of programs you can choose from is a plus for end users. all they need to do is search the keywords or browse then click and apply. the system downloads the latest version from the net and installes it for them.the plus side is that you do not need to search for updates for each program you install like in windows. the system does that automatically, so you always have the latest version.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
True.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
checkout www.winehq.com
in ubuntu you can install it with
sudo apt-get wine
linux has some cool native gaves too. not that I play though. no time. :(
its good you dont notice much. it means it generally works. :P
Burnout.
Beware! :)
That's true, Linux is harder for some things.
But it makes you think as a program; like a computer, I would say. It forces you to understand how an OS works.
And you have to cope with that.
So, I think, it's too difficult (or better, unnecessarily difficult) for an end user, I agree with that.
But an engineer, or a good programmer, should know at least something about Linux.
Now on that one I agree with you :D
Time for bed me thinks
Nothing,
I think that Windows' supremacy on the desktop is due to Microsoft's anti-competitive practices and agreements with the hardware vendors. It doesn't make it right.
I prefer to see a multi-cultural IT: Linux (Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora, Slackware, Debian, ...), Windows, MacOS, Solaris, FreeBSD, .... and many others.
I don't believe in one OS to rule them all.
bleu, bleu, bleu, what are we going to do with you?
90% of the people are still wrong, even here. :P
This is what I was trying to tell them but here are some people, they say no 90% people are wrong and those who are sitting in their wells, are right :)
Again I will say, ownership is very important and then marketing and customer care is more important even. The companies who owns Linux/UNIX, they are fine, like MAC, RedHat, SUSE, etc.... but open source, it sucks.....
Guys you don't have to dig into the web to find for statistics. Go to Carrefour, Lulu, or other electronic stores in Doha. Most laptops comes pre-installed with win OS. Some are sold without OS, others have Linux installed and sold cheaper than those with windows. But people buying these laptops almost always end up installing unlicensed copies of windows. And believe me they are very well aware of Microsoft's piracy policy, but who cares. The OS is easy to use and widely accepted.
Indeed linux is a very robust OS specially for server apps. I was administering slackware linux from 2000 to 2005, used it for our file server, Apache, MySQL, Squirelmail for our email server [atleast until I left the company :)], our local RDBMS Postgres, and a whole lot of server apps. It is very very stable, we sometimes just force a restart once a month just to refresh the servers.
However most end users still prefer to use windows over linux, due to the simple fact that they are at ease with it, & resist change. SIMPLE...
Cost is neither an issue anymore, at least here in Doha. No individual has been imprisoned for being caught using unlicensed windows, that is as far as I know. Majority of the big companies here are also using unlicensed copy. So whats the big deal.
BOTTOM LINE? Windows is still widely accepted as an end user platform. Linux performs well as a server, but still lacks most of the features that windows has to offer. One example is program installation. You have to read tons of readme files to install a simple program in linux. In windows? The plain old "SETUP.EXE"
(Manny Pacquiao Lives...)
Well less people to prefer to buy mac books I guess it's because they are different in this world well there's a need for Linux developers to do marketing people won't buy it becoz they are free they guess what ever they get free are cheap. Hope one day Linux will be well known.
Heyy do any one know about fedora Linux??
Boston, learning Logic (and Cubase as well) was pretty hard indeed. But I was into experimental music, so the perfect sequencer was not mandatory.
Ending words from my side:
Always end results matter, let’s see what will happen in future... History proves that Microsoft is ruling for many many years and their users (techie and non-techie) are not decreasing but keep increasing...... Whatever u use in your personal laptop or home pc, never change world's opinion...
I think I gave wrong stats before, according to CNET, 92% OS are still Windows in this world. Mac's shared is increased from 5.17 to 5.27 in 6 months..
Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10388409-56.html
It means MAC is the danger to MS not Linux anyway :p
jackmohan2007 bing!! Give that man a cigar!
only thing i notice about ubunto is its FREE and cube effect. If they can at least have decent games compatible with it then i will say bye bye windows
Dagway ai!
OK lets assume the guys using Windows....and loving it.... have paid for their Adobe & MS Office softwares and also all the Audio and Video Editing softwares too!
If not the whole argument ends here :P
Maybe you couldn't master the program, mauro?
"Real Love has no Enemies"
mamma mia! Emagic's Logic Audio! was used to make noises with FruityLoops Reason and a lot of other crappy stuff ...
I moved my main machine to Ubuntu after I've been using XP for 100 years, hated Vista, and then noticed that the main apps I use on it are Firefox, Pidgin, VLC (All open source, all available in Linux).
Then I notice that the Gimp does most of the stuff I did in Photoshop, Inkscape does most of the stuff I did in Illustrator... Just different keystrokes and menus.
I edit MS Office documents in OpenOffice, but I still prefer to use iWork on the Mac.
This thread will never... ever... end...
yeah its useless,
I never used xenix, we had a vm3090. and it was true unix. :)
Burnout.
Beware! :)
As I mentioned earlier, many professional programs don't run on Windows. I used Emagic's Logic Audio until 2003 on a PC with Windows. 2003 Emagic sold themselves to Apple, the program was abandonned for Windows. Every recording studio was forced to swap to McIntosh if they wanted to continue to use Emagic's Logic Audio. And of course they did. Reason for the sale: Windows is not compatible with the demanding real-time effects (or plug-ins) which are a vital part of studio work. It's not the hardware (Apple runs on Intel CPUs meanwhile). It's the fu**** up concept of Windows which makes it unusable for professional work. As I also said earlier, Windows is perfect for Indian housewives.
"Real Love has no Enemies"
That was funny timebandit.
well, it did replace my desktop.
the day finally came when I had to reformat my laptop and couldnt activate the OS (windows obviously). the OS was legit and I had paid my taxes to microsoft and no it was only used on that laptop ever. the guy on the phone asked me some questions that I could not answer because I was out of the office blah blah blah.
and I was desperately in need of doing some very critical work. I ended up doing it on a LiveCD booted linux system. with the files on the hard drive that I used to open in windowes.
I was lucky that I knew about the choice available and now have a livecd with me at all times, and one on the USB and one on the emergency folder at the office.
It was a day that profoundly changed my attitude to how I do work with computers.
if there is something I can not do in linux for free that I really need, I will gladly pay a couple of programmers in the community to have that peace of code written for me under GPL. thus it will always be available and free.
nearly all apps I use are OS independent now. simply because they are opensource or made available by parent companies and thus can and have been ported to windows and BSD and linux and mac and some to whatever phoneos there is. OR are web2.0 thus can be reached through a browser.
Who is moving away from the linux os on netbooks? I have not seen that happening. to the contrary, though slow, I have seen more and more people installing linux at least as dualboot on their computers.
well thats some more keystrokes for you, but I write as I have some free time to kill. :)
Burnout.
Beware! :)
Correction Zenix should have read Xenix (it's been a while you know).
Your statement "I personally use Linux, Windows, and MacOS. Each one where it makes sense. Most people only know one flavor: Windows." :::: Each one where it makes sense :::: Good man, at last... that is what I have been saying all along!!
Yeah, great,,, trained in Microsoft's flavor of Unix!!! (btw, it's Xenix)
So it's 100% Microsoft to you.
Any argument here is useless, nobody listens.
I personally use Linux, Windows, and MacOS. Each one where it makes sense. Most people only know one flavor: Windows.
Can't be bothered to argue against you bleu. The whole IT industry is wrong and you are right.
Linux does some jobs really well. But it is never going to replace windows on the desktop/laptop. The netbook saga proved that. Manufactures put Linux on their netbooks and everyone hated it. So they are moving away from it again. And yes I know Chrome OS is built on Linux, but we have yet to see how that shapes up.
When Linux first arrived in force I was over the moon. I had been trained on Zenix (Microsoft's flavour of Unix) back in 1985 and couldn't wait for Windows to get a bloody nose. However no mater how hard I tried, I still ended up going back to windows for desktop apps. You are a Linux enthusiast or should I say Hacker. Most people don't want to be enthusiasts of an operating system. They just want to do their job.
But I know I have just wasted a load of keystrokes on you, because you will not listen.
They can't.
Theoretical?????
Sorry for you, if you want to be a drop in the sea, it's your choice.
I am not giving references from any where.. I am telling you my experiences... What are you telling it's all bookish and theoretical... Practically things are different..
Linux jobs are well paid but how many jobs are in the market? How many jobs are being created by Linux? If there are only few hundreds, those will be well paid for sure but then luck comes before skills in this type of probability.
In contrast, there are many many jobs for Microsoft industry, i.e. Windows Sys Admins, Active Directory and DNS Admins, Exchange Admins, SharePoint Admins, Microsoft Solution Architects, MS Solution Consultants, MS Security Consultants, etc etc.... BTW, these are all mid level jobs. I didn't mention top and technician level jobs.
Then there are many technologies which are being offered by Microsoft that again creates jobs in the market, i.e. Desktop OS, Server OS, Databases, .NET, Windows Embedded systems, Windows Phones, Biz Talk technologies, Data Center protection, Operations Manager, System center, MS Virtualization, SharePoint technologies, Unified Communications, Forefront technology, HPC and Parallel computing, File services, failover clustering, Hyper V technology, developer references, etc etc.....
It is a separate world...
Now if I remain in Linux, up to what extent can I go further? Linux jobs and tasks are fixed coz it is being used in specific organizations and environments.
Bleu said, 90% people are wrong, WOW!!! Great!! How could 10% prove themselves right? :)
and you cant do that with windows.
not legally and with a lot of tweeking.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
even from usb pendrive if I'm not wrong
I'd just like to point out that you can try most flavors of linux without even installing it on the computer.
ubuntu cds for example can boot from CD without touching the hard drive. and you can install progs from the net and surf and whatever. then when you reboot and remove the CD, its like before.
of course in the process you may like it so much that you decide to install it. and that is only a few clicks away.
but it works straight out from the CD without installing. handy as a recovery cd. even for recovering windows. he he. :)
Burnout.
Beware! :)
Funny this thread is still going.
Linux OS are generally more compatible than both windows and MAC OS's. they stick to the standards/guidelines. win and mac try to keep the users with vendor lockdown.
you can buy support for any linux distro you like if you are not happy with the open community. I understand that enterprises have to have a support they pay for business standard practices and they have it available from various companies. you dont like one? change to another. can you do that with windows? and windows support is crappy as can be. "sorry sir, that is closed source, we cant change that line of code to do that or incorporate this. you have to wait maybe 3 years for the next Os, then and only then MAYBE you will have what you are asking for. meanwhile, keep using us thank you."
you also have the peace of mind that as a corporate user you have the option to always have the data/system control with you and are not forced to update/degrade your OS to keep support.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
Hi Najamss
I am not sure from where you get your information.
When you say that you switched from linux system administration job profile to Windows administration due to lack of scope then I guess you have not explored linux well. Linux admins are well paid and most sort after professionals since.
Apache an open source (not owned by any one company) runs 47% of the worlds websites against 21% for microsoft product. (courtesy http://news.netcraft.com/)
If I am not mistaken this very site runs on a LAMP(Apache, Linux MySQL, PHP) platform which is again all open source and free products.
Linux blends well with windows network. You will be able to see and access windows networks and workgroups without much effort. Samaba ( the program that helps in networking with windows) comes installed and well configured with Ubuntu.
Linux networking is much better and advanced than windows as it is predominantly a network oriented operating system from the beginning.
The driver management is much simpler in linux. around 80% of the hardwares are supported out of the box. Most of the drivers are created by linux enthusiast and volunteers working over time.
I find that software management is much better and easier in linux than in windows. all the softwares are available on the package manager. just have to click on the software that you want to install and then click on a button and you are done. It will download the required files and install it for you. now downloading double clicking, forward next clicking etc.
Out of the box multimedia looks better in windows because many are proprietary codecs and there are legal issues to use them. But you can always download the required codecs install it from the repositery.
When you make a statement that all latest softwares run on windows it means you are not aware of the softwares that are available for linux.
As far as distribution is concerned it is a personal choice. You can choose the one you want depending on which one you feel comfortable.
I am not sure why you want to stick to the paid distro concept. Most of the linux web servers running on the net is not paid distros. But they employ paid admins with good linux Know how. this has the advantage that you are not vendor locked.
You can do that also in Windows, maurochiado, if you know how to use a Hexeditor!
"Real Love has no Enemies"
Starts banging head on desk uttering "Doh!, Doh! Doh!"
I just want to give my idea. The main idea behind linuzzo (linux) is that you can get things your way. Nobody decides in your place how your system MUST be configured, what programs it MUST have.
Of course, IF you can program your own programs, drivers,ecc. you have the chanche to possess your computer fully, deciding everything.
I know it has many flaws but I started with Windows in my life and will continue to use Windows only..
najam, more than 90% of the people are wrong.
Talking about browsers I use safari it came with
my iTunes.it's fast not as much as opera.it has turbo booster which boost speed 3 times.so it's also good as u can download torrents also with.
Till now I dint ry ubuntu 9.10
Well if 80% people are wrong then you have to work hard to prove your statements dude :)
Now a days I use Chrome only... Before Chrome I use Firefox and IE both... because still many sites do not work on FireFox and it has memory leakage issues as well but IE has its issues as well..
i ve been using windows for 10 years.
i switched to linux ystrday, and it seems so fast and less frustrating
with vista, i always had probs with my wifi network being disconctd often and then had to restart computer. also, my office wud take long time to open and windows explorer restarts every now n then
linux seems easy and interesting.. hassle free
[img_assist|nid=17892|title=http://braveatheart.blogspot.com/|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=135]
Mainly the mac operating system requires mac hardwares.that's the reson mac is not used by all.and windows are all purpose
naj, most of the world doesn't know any better, they think Internet starts with a blue "e"... I'm sure you love IE.
Well I agree and use as well but as I told you that problem is compatibility with whole world. We are living in this world and have to use it. For example, in my organization, I cannot use MAC only because whole infrastructure is Windows based so therefore if have support its infrastructure and their compatible apps...
Everyone say that Windows 7 or its previous versions are replica of Mac OS. Then why not 80% people use Mac? Can you answer this question? The only reason, they neva think about users' easiness. They used to launch their OS on only specific hardware so therefore those machines were expensive and still they are expensive... and when they came to know this fact and launched it on Intel based hardware, it was too late!
What Microsoft did, they think about non-techie users. They assure whole world that everyone can use computer machine... therefore it is adopted by everyone....
You can verify on internet or from anyone else, 80% people use Windows or Microsoft products and 16% use Linux based OS or products. Only 4% use MAC or others...
Why it's like that? Maybe I am biased or few others, what about the whole world?
Slaps forehead and mutters "Doh!"
najamss,
Win7 is just a clone MacOS interface on Vista, why not use the original.
I would prefer Linux just because its a choice....
And one example that Linux does is that it installs over Windows.....while a windows cannot install over a Linux :P
Its that much more to have a choice....
there will always be people who would not like to follow the "Herd"....so be it.
In fact how many of the so called MS office "Fans" are paid users /genuine users?
Open Source ....you rock!
You are not getting my point... Companies are running mix environment (our is also the example and we are running SUSE) but they are running paid versions because they need ownership of those OS so that they can get back to them in case of any issue...
If I have to pay for any OS, I will go with MS product for sure...
UBUNTU is not offering anything new.... If the old command line interface is the best (as most of the companies are running that interface), why UBUNTU is in market because they offered interface like MAC and Windows, thats why people are using it.. If you are talking about Linux, its real flavor and powerful features are in its command line... why people are using UBUNTU because it is new but remember it looks like Windows..... Now when Windows 7 is in market. I can bet, UBUNTU will change their interface like Windows 7...
Thats why I already said when any OS is trying to look like another one, why not the master one?
Get a Mac... Snow Leopard is out already with full 64 bit kernel support...the best Unix platform there is.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
najmasss, you're looking for somebody to own it, which defeats the purpose, you're waiting for a Microsoft Linux...
There are many global companies who mix Windows, Linux, Unix, SGI, Mac on their networks, but they have competent people.
shaz there are plenty of free distro linux cd's. You can either download them off the net or have them mailed to you for only mailing costs.
Am I biased? I have asked the question and you asked a counter question... So who was biased? I have used Linux as well. I was the Linux System Administrator but it's scope was very limited so therefore I switched my career. I have used Linux deeply. May be you have used Linux as a consumer or non-techie user but I have done it as IT professional.
I know Linux is a powerful OS but as I told you that no one owns it so therefore you never find it's official help and support. Someone has given the examples of Google, and other big companies. They are all using paid Linux flavors, i.e. SUSE or RedHat therefore they get support and documentation as well.
If you use Linux professionally in enterprise, u will find it difficult in the organizations where Windows and Linux are mixed used. There is no organization or company in the world where only Linux is being used. Networking or network printing is always a problem in mixed Windows and Linux peer environments, Linux do not work with Windows Active Directory systems, Windows offers most powerful GUI controls for hardware and settings but Linux still lacks in it, driver management is far easy in Windows with compare to Linux, software installation is also easier in Windows than Linux where every distros has different methods, disk partitioning and its table is confusing in Linux, multimedia is better in Windows than Linux, availability and installation of games is still confusing as well, all latest software are available for Windows but not for Linux, and top of that which distro should be used, is still curiosity for many users.
I must say here that Linux is good for Servers and Embedded system but as I said before only paid distros.
I am not saying that u cannot do anything with Linux, maybe u can but in what time? Time is crucial. Linux is not for non-techie users but Windows does.
yup i love linus as they r fast in updating their os.
windows is damn slow.they actually take years to develop one.
well i still am worried .
i have a hp laptop which has a recovery disk where all drivers and and it softwares are preinstall.just incase any prob with windows i can format within 30 minutes.
now the thing with linux.
i just want to get some drivers of my windows then trey installing linux.
now if any1 can tell me that without installing linux i can test it like i tried for solaris.
solaris gives free cds.
y not linux.
Not replying, it seems like you are very biased against Linux, so any reply is useless.
Thanks for wasting your time here.
Well I have asked question first so it should answer first as well :)
I have many examples and internet references... I will not give the internet references of any companies... Personal blogs are the best source of reviews because those people are not being paid by anyone to review their products, they are the geeks who just want to blog their experiences...
What can you do with Windows and not with Linux... give some examples.
Well with reference to Bill Gates that he was dropped-out of Havard... World looks for end results... what is the end result?
Einstein, Warren Buffet and many famous scientists and businessmen were not good in their studies as well.
Yeah I have copied from that website... Information is important....
What can you do with Linux and not with Windows... give some examples, questioner needs information and comparison...
For Adobe products, you should use a mac. :P
I have nothing further to add your hounour.
Bill Gates is only better in selling, not in developing! Don't forget, he is a Harvard drop-out, he couldn't master the math!
Timebandit.
thats vendor lockdown for you.
for a regular desktop user, or a regular server, linux has everything you need. and has it for free.
and for taking over the world, nobody has taken it yet. and never will. that is, as long as you have a choice.
healthy rivalry is good for the end users like you and me. you get better service for cheaper.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
burnout I know... but it's been a long time now. Linux isn't the new kid on the block any more. Honestly I really did want to swap to Linux, but like I said earlier in this thread I need Adobe products. And I don't want to have to switch between virtual machines, and I don't want to run emulators, I just want an operating system that does the job.
Yes Linux is free, but it hasn't taken over the world yet, after all this time you have to ask yourself WHY?
seeing what you wrote I believe most of you work for microsoft. :)
most information if any given are from microsoft sites. that is biassed.
a lot of information if not from the site are madeup.
"Over 80% of Mac users told microsoft that they would recommend windows7"??? that is your killer argument?
Mac is not linux.
I guess supposed Mac users have had the question asked as: what if you dont have a Mac OS, nor a Linux OS, nor DOS, what would you suggest a ten year old to use?
same copy paste from
http://www.apacsweb.com/randomfacts/facts-about-the-windows-7-launch-over-80-of-mac-users-told-microsoft-that-they-would-recommend-windows-7.htm
nothing original.
Linux is original. and it is free.
I use both windows and linux.
there is nothing I can do in windows that I can not do in linux. the flavor of linux I use is Ubuntu. there is a ton of stuff I do under linux that I need to pay huge sums to do in windows. I am not so rich as to throw money out the window.
IBM, Oracle, google, and quite an extensive list of companies use linux.
you can download ubuntu from www.ubuntu.com
please at least take the time to read (very short): http://www.webhostingsearch.com/articles/introduction-to-linux-flavors.php
or check: http://distrowatch.com/ if you really want to get into detail.
you can do a google search with the keyworks "linux flavors" to find others. maybe one you will like more.
if you want, you can try it without installing it to your computer.
it runs straight from CD or from under windows with wubi or from USB disk.
the community is great. it is very helpful, very knowledgeable. you can get live help through IRC if your question has not been answered in a help forum.
try it out. then you will have a more informed decision.
Burnout.
Beware! :)
najamss thank you for clearing that up, excellent information.
bleu come on man, I don't want to mess around with having to keep swapping operating systems. Linux is fine for enthusiasts and for people that have all the applications they will ever need running on it.
If Ubuntu is trying to look like Windows, why not then Windows? There is no point that one OS is trying to look like another, I would prefer the master one.....
The problem with Linux is that, no one owns it. The best Linux version is RedHat but it is also paid, owned by Redhat....
If there is an any OS that is flawless and error free, how could the jobs will be created. Then only one or two persons are enough to run these type of error free stable OS.
Linux is still far away from Microsoft... Microsoft has lots of experts, certified, R&D, Help and Support, blogs, videos, trainings... It is very difficult to compare Windows with Linux......
Here are some statistics:
More than a billion people around the world use Windows every day, and millions have provided input on what they want to see in an operating system. This feedback was built into the product.
Windows 7 saw the largest beta testing program in the history of the industry, with 8 million testers worldwide.
People from more than 113 countries downloaded the Windows 7 beta.
Microsoft conducted more than 16,000 online interviews directly aimed at helping us identity, test and validate scenarios and features for Windows 7.
More than 2,600 customers participated in user research and usability studies for Windows 7.
More than 40,000 hours of Windows 7 usage was logged from external user research field trials (through Microsoft's Living with Windows program in which users were recruited to provide an understanding of how they use Windows 7).
Microsoft received product instrumentation and usage data from millions of PCs in more than 200 countries and regions around the world that help Microsoft Corp. better understand how its customers use its software. Windows 7 includes input from more than a billion user sessions.
Survey (sample size 1,999 people):
90% of Release Candidate testers rated Windows 7’s quality as "good" or "extremely good."
91% of Release Candidate testers told Microsoft they would recommend Windows 7.
90% perceive Windows 7 as responsive, simple to use and stable.
Over 80% of Mac users told Microsoft that they would recommend Windows 7.
timebandit, Compatibility is somewhat overrated. I keep a virtual machine running windows for the incompatible stuff.
"I love the idea of Linux and the ethos behind it." that was me. And I do love the idea... but for people who work with the rest of the world, compatibility is an issue
I quote someone saying
"I love the idea of Linux and the ethos behind it."
I bought a laptop when I came here, and I have to stick to Win Vista. But with Gentoo, Ubuntu, KDE ecc. I was feeling more confortable.
More than enough...
thanks alot.
will 1gb ram be enuf??
Burn the iso on a CD, boot from it.
You can try or even use it without installing.
I know xp is old but the system requirements are less compared to windows 7
now I wish to install ubuntu. I heard it's best for websurfing
.now tell me how to install it,
I have downloaded the disk image
I switched my Windows machines to 7, XP is too old.
I second timebandit.. I love window 7 for a reason.
---If you can't CONVINCE 'em, CONFUSE 'em!!!
Windows Vista SP2, sorry Windows 6.1, (they also call it Windows 7) is ok for Windows.
I prefer Linux (Karmic Koala is what I'm using right now).
I have an OpenSolaris VM, zfs is great there...
It's always a matter of choice,
You will get Windows Geeks advising how great it is but for features,features, customization, and freedom and ease of use Ubuntu all the way... (We get a new release every 6 months :P apt-get dist-upgrade, or click the button in the update manager if you prefer).
Well I feel Linux is good but currently I'm using windows xp on desktop n vista on laptop.
I feel vista as the worst.
Now 1 question is that whether Linux is vulnerable to virus or not?
I love the idea of Linux and the ethos behind it. And indeed when it comes to servers Linux is very popular because it is cheap and allows economical LAMP development. However I need applications from Adobe, and I also need 100% MS Office. I know there are tons of similar apps available for Linux, and yes I know about Open Office, GIMP and the likes. But to get the job done quickly and have easy collaboration with the rest of the world I just have to stay with MS. The media love windows 7 and from what I read it makes up for the Vista shambles. I am just waiting for the correct opportunity to install windows 7 on my development environment.
you can download redhat,ubuntu etc from the internet and can use it either as a live cd or install directly in the pc i installed it in vmware workstation and it works fine good for learning and knowing it.
any tom dick and harry can learn windows. i really want to try mac
I just bought a Laptop...and installed XP on it....(Dont want no Vista, Dont want no Win 7)
I will also be installing Ubuntu Linux on it as the second OS.
By the looks of it I will be using it even after Microsoft has stopped support for it. Until MS comes out with a OS version I would REALLY want to upgrade.
Many professional applications don't run on Windows! Windows is for Indian house wives.
Windows 7 is the Best Operating System since well ever. Linux.Solaris and OSX are minority Operating systems which have little support by the mass market.
You will get Linux Geeks advising how great it is but for features,Support and ease of use Windows 7 all the way.
I have used it since first public Beta and Never an issue.I dont see where Risky comes from.
Beware of the Linux and Mac Fanboys.
"solaris is good not as much as linux" Same thing really PWND
Solaris is a version of UNIX and Linux is a version of UNIX, shaz. You can only debate the GUI. The rest is the same.
Yup windows 7 is a bit risky but solaris is good not as much as linux
&sns=em
i ll go for windows as it is widely marketed product but u should also learn linux mac and other os to have overall knowledge for servers i think linux is the best as it is more secure than windows
Sun Solaris 10.