After Rome – Holy War And Conquest
An excellent two part documentary that produces many talking points. The two 1hr programmes do not go into religious arguments but rather look at the history of the entanglements between the two cultures.
I thought they were very even handed and ultimately optimistic. Having said that, the cultures described are based around the mediterranean, near and middle East - one begins to realise that the culture of the sub-continent Muslims is very different indeed.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/after-rome-holy-war-and-conquest/
In the first episode of this two-part series, Boris Johnson travels to France, Spain, Egypt, Israel, Syria and Turkey to investigate the early beginnings of what some people now call ‘the clash of civilizations.’ This is the idea that the two historically opposed religious cultures of Christianity and Islam are locked into a never-ending cycle of mutual antipathy, distrust and violence. Is this really true?
There have been many ‘clashes’ between Christianity and Islam in the period Boris Johnson examines in this series, 632 to 1492. But the real historical picture is far more subtle, interesting and optimistic than the clichés of a clash of civilization might suggest. This first programme looks at the early history of Islam; the extraordinary series of conquests that gained for it half the territories of the old Roman empire in just 80 years; the rich and sophisticated civilisation Islam produced; the relationships between Muslims, Jews and Christians; and the background to the crusades.
In the second part he begins by looking at the crusades, and the way they are viewed in the west and in the Muslim world today. But Boris finds that the realities of the crusades are far more subtle than modern attitudes to them would have us believe.
As with many current entrenched positions about the so-called ‘clash of civilisations,’ such attitudes are often a rewriting of history in the light of later events. In this programme Boris Johnson also looks at the Sack of Constantinople, when Latin Christians fought eastern Christians, leading eventually to the fall of the city to the Ottoman Turks in 1453. He looks too at the Reconquista in Spain, which culminated in the wholesale expulsion of Jews and Muslims. At every turn of his journey, Boris Johnson finds that the real history is a good deal more subtle and interesting than the fictions that have grown up around it.
Valid points .. Men can learn to co-exist as long as they see benefit in the alliances...
claudia73--the people Britain, Ireland and Spain have not forgotten about the IRA or ETA. And for that matter nor have Americans stopped worrying about the sort of home-grown extremists that blew up the Oklahoma City building. But these are generally domestic groups conducting domestic terrorism--i.e. ETA does not fly planes into New Zealand buildings--and that makes them less of an international concern.
To keep on topic . . . Spain and Kosovo are other examples to add to Pilgram's list, but my reading of history as the the vast majority of converts did not make their decision with a sword to their throat but instead sought to join the occupiers and so avoid such things as heavy taxes and enjoy opportunities for social and economic advancement. Plenty of the Arab conquest's great generals were converts as were quite a few of Europe's.
We're talking about what HAS already HAPPENED, not whats happening now, or will happen.
yes, and thats how it should be now ..... but what really gets on my nerves is those calling us 'terrorists' , forgetting the non muslims groups like the IRA, ETA, or the buddhist group who gassed tokio station.
is very easy and convenient to blame without looking at the others .....
Like I said, Pilgram, I agree, but it does not always have to be so.
Linc, in Greece, Turkey and Jordan it was by the sword. The churches/mosques changed based on which army took over.
Pilgram--I agree but it is not always by the sword. Some places simply change because of changing demographics, like the London mosque in Brick Lane--first a French Huguenot protestant church, then a Methodist church, then a Jewish synagogue and now a mosque serving the Bangladeshi community. Next is probably a Catholic church for Polish immigrants. No swords, just poor immigrants making enough money to move out of the inner city and vacating it for the next wave of poor immigrants.
HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF AND IT WILL COME TO PASS.
can't open it here in the office, will check it out later at home, thanks adey!
LOL! He obviously really really likes the world subtle!
Ha ha - just noticed that.
You could have suggested that the writer of the blurb use a thesaurus with a bit more.....subtly!
:P
Yes
Click on the link in the OP.
LOL, time to break out the thesaurus and learn a term other than subtle :P Kidding, sounds interesting. I've traveled through parts of Jordan, Greece and Turkey and the clash is still so obvious, churches turned to mosques turned to churches. The history of conversion by sword.
is there a copy of this in the internet adey? this is interesting :)
britexpat--that is a myth. Christians and Jews were second-class citizens dominated by an Islamic militarized elite. They had be conquered and were treated as conquests. I am not saying the Christian crusaders were any better at ruling Jerusalem, in fact they were much worse in many ways--even to local Christians. But to suggest is was all bliss and harmony before they arrived is inaccurate.
I have seen the documentary. It is good in that it points out that the various cultures got along (mostly for the sake of trade) far more than they fought, usually over land and trade routes rather than religion. And both fought far more amongst themselves than with each other.
Prior to the Crusades, the three main religions lived in harmony in Jerusalem ......
I would like to watch that.
modern crusades?
let us not start it because we will show the real definition of "clash" ;)
:D
Understanding the past is crucial to solving the problems of the present and pre-empting trouble in the future.
But hey I was only posting to share.
:)
The crusades are history
Jihads are the present.
Do we waste zillions of hours discussing the past that is laid to rest or direct that effort towards redeeming the future?
reason to retreat to North America,,, again..
Granted.
But it's not just about that.
It's just coz I love history
:)
The documentary talks to arab proffessors.
The Crusades are long gone...bigger issues to worry about now.
most of the history that the west knows is the one written by the orientalists rather than directly from the source.