Muslims could get own police.....

I brought someone to translate and that worked fine. I think when you don't speak the dominant language of the country, it falls to you to pick up the slack when needed -- rather than expect a special accommodation.

And I have addressed the Beth din court system before and stood against it. Perhaps your memory is short -- or biased :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I mistook for a second that you (gypsy) had posted earlier about your dislike for Qatari police...

that was Novita and PCG...

I wouldn't say not fond...I've met some wonderful ones...I would say...wary.

sounds very unpleasant...

I can understand why you are not fond of the local cops

I've had to go to the police here as well, and I would have loved to have an officer who spoke English talk to me, or at least a woman. Especially given the nature of the crime.

And neither am I surprised that you voice your objection proactively only when its Islam on trial...

PM said

"BTW, I was the victim of a crime in Doha years ago. There was no 'American" policeman to be my "victim's advocate", nor was their a woman to deal with me or even anyone who spoke English. I had to bring someone along to translate. It all worked out fine."

So you are saying that having a policeman who speaks English wouldn't have helped in any way when the victim speaks is an English speaker... and getting someone along to translate was no trouble at all? Strange...

Personally, I think the police officers here are underrated... they are excellent, but to say that their being able to speak English wouldn't help anyway is you bending over backwards AND THEN getting your foot in your mouth and is TODAYS "PMs hypocritical quote of the day"

[Quote] The Trumpet....

European parliamentary elections held from Thursday to Sunday show a marked shift to the right across the Continent. Both moderate and far-right parties made substantial gains.

It didn’t matter if the right wing was in government or opposition. Across the whole continent, the right did well, and the left lost out. Leading historians worry that these election results could contain a grave warning for Europe.

David Kynaston, research fellow at Kingston University and author of Austerity Britain, says (emphasis mine throughout):

As Nadezhda Mandelstam, wife of Russian poet Osip Mandelstam, said of Stalinism in her book Hope Against Hope, “Don’t think it can’t happen to you.” There are definite parallels between Germany in the prewar years and now, most obviously the economic crisis that sparked mass unemployment. The Wall Street crash took place in 1929, but it wasn’t until January 1933 that Hitler became chancellor of Germany; I would suggest that we are a long way from seeing the worst of our own economic crisis, and if we date the start as being September 2008, then we still have a while to go in which the far right could gain a stronghold.

More worryingly, the recession has been accompanied by a rise in populism and a loss of faith in democratic politics; the sort of people who, a generation ago, did not used to be cynical about politics now are. Worse still, people are not just indifferent to politics, they are ignorant about it: The level of hostility to intellectualism in this country is deeply depressing.

Richard Overy, professor of history at Exeter University and author of The Morbid Age: Britain Between the Wars, says he is mainly worried “about the drift to the right in the rest of Europe [other than Britain], where the mood is fearful, anti-immigrant, anti-Islam and deeply hostile to the left. Europe clearly feels embattled because of factors such as terrorism and the rise of China, and has been moving to the right for some time.”

______________________________________________________________

You may disregard this as being a 'conspiracy theory' or 'right wing' propaganda, I am sure you can twist it. Fact remains that this observation is relatively nuanced and holds a great deal of the truth.

Relating it back to this article, possibly a drop of water in a bucket that is slowly starting to overflow. God forbid this day comes. Therefore, acknowledge the problem now, and see how to deal with this without having to go through a period of political dominance of extreme right/left.

I don't support special allowances based on religion, race or culture. As I have said several times I think it contributes to more segregation in society rather than integration. Any attempt to apply a different legal code in a binding arbitration for a specific group is not something I would support.

I don't have a problem with victim's advocates per se. I just don't think they should be policemen or women; because that blurs the line between their professional obligation and their personal relationship with the victim.

BTW, I was the victim of a crime in Doha years ago. There was no 'American" policeman to be my "victim's advocate", nor was their a woman to deal with me or even anyone who spoke English. I had to bring someone along to translate. It all worked out fine.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Isn't that why beth dins don't seem to bother anyone...

both in the UK and in the US... no negative press...

PM... you should check how widely popular beth dins are in the US

But shariah courts... oh no no no...

So I guess we should call it Christian jewish secularism

All religions are equal as long as you are not Muslim

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7233040.stm

http://www.bethdin.org/

Don't say that please...

you are bothering PM and Harmagedon's conscience...

How can they maintain their double standards as long as you two keep stating the obvious???

While they might be required to learn English, when it comes down to it if someone has just witnessed or is the victim of a violent crime, they will be more comfortable talking in their own language to someone who understands their culture. Times of grief or shock are probably not the best times to enforce mulit-culturalism.

Pardon the pun :)

You are missing the point.. This is more a "community liason" with the VICTIM than police..

By your comments you are implying that there may be bias. This is clearly not the case here.

you guys all need to go back to the nursery ... all these bickerings are very childish IMHO ...

Now you see. Didn't you study literature back in college? Very very defensive..LOL

:-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

His name as of today PM, will be...

Veri-militant/rude

better suggestions?

or religion. Police forces should be multi-racial and have both genders, but assignments should not be made based on race or religion. This only encourages society to segregate and the American ideal is to integrate in a melting pot.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

YOU HATE MUSLIMS!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

There you go again, you read selectively and only choose points which can satisfy your rage. I have called you Militant, I have stated that I have........ etc etc, read the posts back.

okay... granted... i made a spelling mistake

but atleast i didn't made the racist mistake of equating all muslims with militants...

I don't get it... If you hate muslims so much, why not just go back to whatever Banana Republic you are from...

grow bananas or roll cigars or whatever..

Anyway,

Mr. Militant Sand-for-brains.

Have a nice evening.

Jeeezzz Militant,

You have taken the insulting to a new level, I must have touched a sensitive snare or two.

In your last posts you present yourself in an excellent manner, very truthful... something new, yet not needed, you are transparent enough.

1) You twist words in order to be able to formulate a counter-argument.

2) You insult when out of proper arguments.

3) You laugh about yourself, meaning that you are an individual that convinces himself of his wit, something extremely sad and worrying.

And the cord is called the Funiculus Umbilicalis, if you desire to make fun of something at least take an effort in spelling it correctly. [quote] Funiculus Umbilicus? [unquote] ???? Otherwise you look like an even bigger fool.

your last comment makes no sense at all!!

what are you ranting about? English please...

Here's a tip... smaller words and shorter sentences...

Nope, Looks like theres lots of garbage churning defensively for the very reasons to be heard. Sometimes a fish even knows when to keep its big mouth shut.

When a child wishes not to hear something... you push her away and ignore her?... What kind of parenting is that? is that how your mommy treated you?... is that why you called yourself Funiculus Umbilicus?... cos you were distanced and so you wished you wouldn't be pushed too far away... LOL!!

definitely FU... he's started with the pictures

I guess there comes a point when all the frustration just gets to him and he just can't communicate cos he is verbally challenged

its like two year olds using baby talk and sign language...

I guess that's why he called himself Funiculus Umbilicus earlier... it comforts him, his link to his mommy...

"Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah"

If this is your reaction in a discussion... seems like a child that has his ears covered with its hands that wishes not to hear as what is heard needs to be pushed away and ignore.

Shame,

There are time when people does not seems to accept reality but vague truth. Its amazing why some are easily brought to bow to any demand for the sake of survival.Definetly you are right when it comes to protect one's source of bread and butter, with regards that we are all here for that reasons. And sometimes you have to lie to get acceptance.

Its FU aka Dude aka Hotboss with a terrible accent :-)) LOL

Veris,

I have mentioned many times, this subject is a drop (maybe insignificant) in a bucket that is overflowing. However, this bucket involves a large scale of issues.

You however deny, deny, deny or rather avoid going into a subject that covers a larger scale problem, which relates immediately to this topic, as you wish to stick to the topic and nothing else. No problem. This topic can go out the door and I will open a topic that covers the entire scheme of problems with Muslims through-out Europe. I did not want to do that as that may be too much for some, and paint a racist picture.

Let me be clear though, I have nothing against Muslims or the Islam, I love my Qatari and Jordanian friends to death and have similar discussion with them, but somehow in cyberspace the animosity invites people to take the road of argumentum ad hominem. I do have a problem with the extremely poor assimilation and integration by SOME Muslims into these societies that constantly make other Muslims look bad. I raise this subject as I want to see if certain politicians in Europe are correct and since the political spectrum of Western Europe is shifting to the right, and more and more nationalistic parties that have many points against Islamisation of their countries, these parties gain strength by receiving more and more votes, conclusive evidence THAT THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

You my insulting and ignorant friend have your head tucked away deep into a sand-dune, and appear to have 0.0 knowledge about European politics and its current transformation. Emotional I am by no means, I am not the loudly screaming flag burning type that has an extremely limited tolerance for the opinion of others and disqualifies everything that smells like comments/feedback/criticism, where I was raised this is highly unusual and considered backwards.

Harmagedon said

"Why always playing 'on the man' and close with little insults, it makes you extremely poor in the debate. Which is sad because if you would leave out your 'below the belt' attempts, which miss target, you'd be respectable.

Equally, you seem disgruntled as this topic touches your personal convictions and make you rather emotional. A true debater does not mingle his voice with emotions. You can put all our opinions into perspective, defend your stance and leave out the provocations, even when provoked as this would make your opponent the 'lesser'."

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Enough with the drama!!!... can you please stop with the over dramatization and get to your point if you have any!!

I dedicate this video to Harmagedon

Harmagedon... Everyone here has rubbished your 'providing access to cops of same race = doom' theory except for PM and stone cold... (yeah... pfft!)

Seeing this ship sinking, I can see you desperately throwing your weight behind the Shariah court issue which is a totally different topic...

To be fair to the topic of Shariah courts in UK, I suggest you open a new OP... and this time no tabloid trash please... get some good sources who atleast pretend to be neutral and then we can discuss it...

No problem Novita, I seem to be many people. I guess some others have been stirring QL up and now that I, one that does not scare away from a firm discussion, have joined I get to be all these individuals. Whatever :-P

And I was also forbidden to quote in Spanish, from Dominican/Colombian origins. :-(

Hmmm.. I thought FU was Fried Unicorn, at least that was said in his topic. And yes I am a dude, this is defined by my scrotum, whether I am hot.... irrelevant.

Harmagedon : My appology if i have mistaken you as Mr.Paul :)

Gypsy : My friendly messenger, do say 'hello' to Mr.Paul from me.

As-Sunnah As Saheeha

http://www.islamlecture.com/

don't mix up things

Stone cold has said BS about how cops of a particular race would be biased towards people of their own race... ABSOLUTE RUBBISH... baseless allegation and totally illogical... any cop would be of one race or the other... so how would you ever get a neutral cop?... this is a white supremacist statement to the effect that only white cops can be neutral...

Just when one thought Stone cold has hit rock bottom

Harmagedon breaks new frontiers...

You gone on to equate that with ALLEGED illegal rulings by Shariah courts... the operative word being 'alleged'... and even if there is an illegal ruling, what stops the effected party from going to English courts and getting a fair retrial if he or she thinks they've been discriminated... the key aspect of Shariah courts being that both parties need to volunteer

BTW... why don't you learn a bit from your friends the Americans... http://www.bethdin.org/

Oh wait... these are jews... OH, then its okay...

This hapens in the states also.. For instance hispanic and Cuban liason officers are assigned to work with local police in invetigaions. Similar for Chinese in California..

The truth, nothing more than the truth. Isn't that something that have been advocated and more appleasing and good in the eyes of someone up there. Will keep a low profile then.

Stone Cold,

BE VERY CAREFUL...

Many are allergic to realistic long term visions. Even though yours is an a bit far fetched, it is true according to the recently published report that states that illegal verdicts have been given by (illegal) Sharia Courts.

To have the same cop of your own race can end up to be biased in judgement. like it or not its something like we are brothers no matter what. Kiss on the left, kiss on the right, you are now free to go.

Exiled,

This issue itself, indeed. However when considering the larger picture and the potential consequences of constant accumulation of negative media coverage, which must have a root somehow, this can be a drop of water in an overflowing bucket.

There are female cops where women and children hangout.. Male cops are not allowed to touch women and children.

This is pretty much a non issue and the thing I do agree with veris on it's tabloid rubbish.... However take it to it's logical conclusion we could have it here in Qatar. Western cops for the golf course, Indian and pakistani for the sofitel area, Qatari lady cops for designer shop area at villagio and so on......

Aren't they required to learn English when they get their citizenship?

And again, whether Sikhs, Jews, Hindus, Muslims or Christians, I think that what is unfortunate is that something like religion (which is divisive in a multi-faith society) is emphasized over nationality (something that unites all as one group). It's just one more way in which people are encouraged to affiliate more closely with their small cultural group than the larger society -- and I don't think that is healthy for the UK in the long run.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

So you see no benefit at all to assiging Muslim cops to a Muslim area Harmadedon?

"What lead the govt to bring in cops of different backgrounds?"

Simple QL, equal opportunity. However they invented a new term which is called 'positive racism' or 'positive discrimination', meaning that a native can be rejected based on the fact the he is not a minority. Also choosing females, regardless of CV/Experience, over males has to do with this. All political correct bullshit.

The best man/woman for the job regardless whether he/she is black, white or green.

Quintuple

Quadruple

Ah, now I understand what you're saying QL. I'm assuming (and this is just me guessing) that they started to notice language barriers as well as just cultural barriers.

Triple

...

third,

Militude states:

"I remember reading that 80% of the articles on Muslims in Europe was negative"

Staggering figure. If we have to believe you it is ALL the fault of small-brained Europeans/Westerners that have it ALL wrong.

Now, THAT seems odd to me.

Equally US/Canada/Australia are difficult to compare with Europe.

Second,

Militude,

Why always playing 'on the man' and close with little insults, it makes you extremely poor in the debate. Which is sad because if you would leave out your 'below the belt' attempts, which miss target, you'd be respectable.

Equally, you seem disgruntled as this topic touches your personal convictions and make you rather emotional. A true debater does not mingle his voice with emotions. You can put all our opinions into perspective, defend your stance and leave out the provocations, even when provoked as this would make your opponent the 'lesser'.

First of all, please stop relating me to others like this Paul or F*** Y**** individual, why?

What lead the govt to bring in cops of different backgrounds? Perhaps certain incidents took place where lack of mutual understanding caused a problem.

What triggers?

That's why I say it would've helped if the article had specified what the triggers were.

I agree, there should be a Shariah advisory council to help the courts when it comes to civil matters. However I don't agree that they have any place in criminal matters.

Last year the French public opinion raged over a French Muslim who divorced his new wife because she wasn't a virgin.

From the Islamic perspective, there are two sides to this story:

1- Marriage is based on a contract so the man has a right to call it off if there was some sort of violation to it.

2- The woman's reputation has to be respected if the man wishes to practise this right.

Had the French judicial system been Islam-savvy the rights of both parties would've been respected.

It's a bit different then testifying. There personal opinion won't come into the matter.

The "Sikh" or "Jewish" or "Muslim" or "Hindu" or "Polish" officer will only aid in working with the victim. He/She will not replace the police officer carrying out the enquiries.

The premise being that an officer from the same ethnic background would be more familiar with cultural / religious aspects and the victim will feel more comforatble with him/her.

[quote:] "Sikh officer to be involved in an investigation"

Aren't verdicts based on evidence and investigation?

Cops rarely get to testify in murder trials, there job is to supply evidence. So it will have nothing to do with the verdicts.

It would've helped if the article had clearly specified what triggered govt to go into this kind of practice, like in the situations mentioned; honour killing and forced marriages.

I don't think their role will only be to lubricate communication between ppl and police, but to provide a cultural background so the verdicts be correct and satisfactory to all parties involved.

Harmagedon

"Militude, you think from your perspective from your religious backdrop and fail to see the potential consequences of a divided society. If you were to think what the sociological or ethnological effects are of accumulated incidents, you will come to realize that this is a very pressing issue that has been boiling under the surface for a long time and will sooner or later burst."

Why don't you take a crash course from the canadians?

Gypsy said

"Wow, I'm amazed how many people jump on the "this is bad" bandwagon. I don't know what it's like in the UK but in Canada its NORMAL and standard practice to assign policemen who are of that areas ethnicity, religion or what have you. For example in the Chinese area of Vancouver, most of the cops who patrol are Chinese, in Native American areas the cops are usually native, in Muslim areas the cops are usually Muslim. Not only does it usually solve language issues but people respond better and feel more comfortable with cops that are of their own background."

Instead of hyperventilating and crying nationalism each time something that benefits the Muslim community comes about, why don't you try to clear your own foggy perception.

I think I insulted Mr. Paul by mistaking Harmagedon for Paul... that's for sure... when I saw three posts without a reference to beer or a bar... I should've known its not him :-)) LOL

When I saw Mulim+British+tabloid, it just triggered a false alarm

But gypsy, winn, britexpat... thanks for saying it as it is...

Exiledsaint... Why do they even have to hate the minorities to begin with? Yeah... You want me take it as a compliment when I am told that my minority is not the 'most hated'... Besides, we are not talking about the UK... we are talking about the US

Its like going to a restaurant and being told, Hurray! you are not the couple the waiters want to least wait upon...

The sad thing is that rather than read the article m people just see "Minority" "Police" "Law" and assume that there is going to be special treatment for immigrants..

Yeah I did not see anything that said that any of kind of religious based law would be applied. The law will remain the law for all people, as it is separate from religion. I got the impression that the Sikh officer will help lubricate the communication and cooperation between people and police especially for crimes such as honour killings where whole communities of people can clam up and refuse to talk. It may actually HELP the law being enforced on the people who use their religious community to hide behind.

1. As veri said, this has been implemented with Sikhs alone. and "could be introduced for other religions elsewhere." I guess its slightly off tangent to go on about Sharia law and Muslim stuff here. not many ppl seems to be complaining that Sikhs are getting it.

2. It doesnot say other officers wont be allowed in the case. What it says is it would allow someone of teh same ethnicity to be involved in the process. I guess, from an investigation point of view this could be helpful coz it would make a victim/witness talk more freely in the presence of someone who understands his/her language and culture.

Infact, I have found that people respond much better, even in a routine minor accident investigation, when interviewed in their native tongue.

3. Veri: if 80% of reports about any particular population is negative, IMHO, tehy need to take a good hard look at themselves and do some much needed introspection as to why it is so. Coz in every one of these countries there are PC brigades who look into where they are going wrong while treating minorities. So its only fair that the minority communities do some introspection and find out how n why they are upsetting their fellow countrymen and how they can better assimiliate into the mainstream of a country that has accepted them and given them rights that they couldnt dream of in quite a few other parts of the world.

If they cant assimiliate , they should think whether or not to continue as round pegs in square holes. Tough but necessary.

How could anyone confuse him for MR PAUL. He's clearly The Dude/FU/Hotboss!

MESSAGE TO VERMIN FROM MR. PAUL: (Mr. P asked me to post this since he no longer posts on the this forum, if you miss him he's on Qatar Social now). Vermin, Harmaggedon is not Mr. P.

Thank you and have good day.

(You're friendly neighbourhood messenger).

Wow, I'm amazed how many people jump on the "this is bad" bandwagon. I don't know what it's like in the UK but in Canada its NORMAL and standard practice to assign policemen who are of that areas ethnicity, religion or what have you. For example in the Chinese area of Vancouver, most of the cops who patrol are Chinese, in Native American areas the cops are usually native, in Muslim areas the cops are usually Muslim. Not only does it usually solve language issues but people respond better and feel more comfortable with cops that are of their own background.

maybe the actual intention was good,but i've a feeling this is going to backfire on the brits..will give rise to a lot of ppl abusing the law in some time,...

too much bending over backwards only goin to break ur spine..

Naturally, they are looking for something sympathic all over the place first with their social status than changing the law to suits their purpose. On the overall they are way behind the average developing countries.

Veris I think you Muslim guys are slipping. As the Arab American comedian said, Muslims are still behind blacks, Jews and homosexuals as the most hated peoplevin the us. After 9/11 what more do we have to do to be no.1.........

I guess with your attitude you are trying for that no.1 slot...

Veris I think you Muslim guys are slipping. As the Arab American comedian said, Muslims are still behind blacks, Jews and homosexuals as the most hated peoplevin the us. After 9/11 what more do we have to do to be no.1.........

I guess with your attitude you are trying for that no.1 slot...

I can see that you are not entirely comfortable with English... you keep switching between your native tongue and English like cliched characters in cheap movies... okay for the 40s celluloid maybe...

But here in QL... only English on main forums...

Go right ahead...

But it doesn't strike you as odd that a provision that has been made for Sikhs (potentially for other communities) has been twisted in to a 'Muslim' issue even one bit...?

And its hardly Muslims getting their own police as even some of the posters were misled to believe probably after having read just the OP and not the title

its just common sense, but the appropriate title for that article is MINORITIES could HAVE ACCESS to own police

This article has been written to intentionally instigate the Islamophobia playing on people's minds...

If Qatar were to say that they are going to host the an internation youth football tournament and all countries are welcome...

and it gets reported as Qatar invites Israel youth team to play... that would be irresponsible journalism...

people like Harmagedon would do well to stick to more trustworthy sources like BBC or CNN even rather than scouring through the British tabloids and coming up with this kind of crap...

As for your assertion that the negativity of Muslims is due to Muslim excesses (again the ever eager PM offers that bit to thrash Muslims). I remember reading that 80% of the articles on Muslims in Europe was negative... I find that a stretch for any community... now WHY would that be... go figure...

Yummy grape kool-aid!

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Bueno PM, so now... we are ready to drink the Kool-Aid, Salud!

--

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I actually think that natives in their own countries are often more civil than those whom went abroad.

This is regardless of religion, culture or ethnicity.

It's one of the things that seems to be on the rise in the ME and is making other parts of the world (like Europe and Latin America) look more attractive than they did before :-)

Dios mio!

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Ola PM,

Yes the sensitivity of some here, as I noticed today, is surprising but in line with what we see in real life. Very very allergic to the minimum of feedback/criticism and in the highest of trees shouting their lungs out if confronted with simple facts.

Nos Vamos

I am here one day and have been accused of being Paul, some Indian name and somebody told me F** You Dude...

How bitter are people here? Ay, mi madre....me llevó el diablo,

lol

You are usually the first on the PC bandwagon in my estimation. God love you, because I used to be just like you -- before spending the last 10 years in the Middle East :-)))

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

the world are just looking for reasons to hate Muslims? Or is it possible they have seen some of the excesses and distortions in our Muslim societies and now are wary and weary of us?

BTW, where does ver/hash get the idea that harmagedon is Mr.P. It's easy to tell by the writing style who he is. Just as it is easy to tell who you and rafsanjani are :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Militude,

You may be aware of the saying Amarrar los perros con longanizas.

If not, look it up. It fits perfectly in our discussion.

Yes QL... me too, but I guess you were not aware about a HUGE bailout here. In a country that denies being affected by the recession...

I guess I misunderstood, so enlighten me :-)

I meant European banks not local ones

Good night

Autch... Verisimilitude, curious as to your reply to Exiled.

Exiled has touched base, but again, looking at broader perspective one sees Belgium, German, Dutch, Danish AND British newspapers full of the supposed hatemongering, it is (sarcasm on) pure coincidence that all these countries face similar issue.

You have your head stuck deep in the desert sand, screaming "MUSLIM HATER" at everybody that questions the behavior of SOME Muslims in Europe.

welcome back Fu dude......

They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin

Sorry double post. Sometimes my iPod touch plays up....

Versi I always get the impression you don't like me....... I guess my point is that there is one set of universal laws decided by an elected govt and revised if and when necessary. Not from an old book or from a dictator who says he represents god. Having a translator is fine, using your culture and religion to get away with crimes is not.

However as you rightly say this is just scaremongering by the British press similar to bin laden saying the west is out to get all Muslims and you should kill them before they get you.

If your refer to a disputable bail-out, yes... just like they did here a couple of weeks ago :-)

Same game, different area.

You mean like the banks that were bought for double their worth?

Ultra Clear English, be careful.. that may as well be blunt.

Oh I see.. Sorry I've had a long meeting and cannot handle brain-twisters. Everything should be laid out in ultra clear English LOL

Yeah they're copy/pasting Porsche now..Lucky my husband!

LOL...

I mean, Qatar could just copy/past European industrial/corporate standards and implement them. Easy Breezy.

what? You lost me there!

Yep, QL... All the Arab states needed to do was look at Europe and say,

in..

out...

out...

later...

copy/paste

Learn from the experts :)

Ah yes QL, 100% correct. The root of many problems can be attributed to the effects of post WW2 wealth and prosperity. Our Christian governments have been way to social and liberal. That is why I think the oil-rich countries have much better policies, come and work,.... but do not expect to become a national.

Isn't this among the civil rights of all citizens? Since the European govts are easy on nationalisation they have to put up with the consequences, otherwise they should reconsider their nationality laws to protect their identity.

As I have stated before, this is one issue which may not be as heavy and yes this is a trail but you have to think in a broader perspective, not case by case. You have to keep in mind an entire population/nation and the effect continuous negative/disputable media coverage has on nationals. Accumulated the nation has had a wave of information both national and international and will ultimately react by voting on right wing parties that generally oppose loss of national identity, worse parties may become extreme right.

As goes for Sharia-courts, 5 were acknowledged by the British government. There were supposedly 85. Denis MacEoin wrote a report stating that illegal, or humanitarian law contradicting,verdicts were issued. This information does not fall from the sky or is sucked out of a thick thumb. GB has been dumb enough to open one door and has now different levels of justice. According to the mentioned source Sharia courts have approved polygamous marriages, approved forced intercourse and forbidden Muslima's to marry non-Muslims unless they converted. We all know the huge differences between Muslims, from liberal to moderate to extreme so this type of justice is a recipe for chaos. It may work exellent in Saudi or Yemen, not in Europe.

Militude, you think from your perspective from your religious backdrop and fail to see the potential consequences of a divided society. If you were to think what the sociological or ethnological effects are of accumulated incidents, you will come to realize that this is a very pressing issue that has been boiling under the surface for a long time and will sooner or later burst. History has taught us the negatives of nationalism, if a certain group chooses to force its stamp on society they will only be accelerating their own downfall.

The bottom line is one standard law for everybody. Why double standard. Victim support or not.

dunno why everyone is getting the two confused!!

Perhaps I'm missing something here.. We are only talking about "Victim support" here.. There is nothing about applying the law selectively..

brit i got your point about the ghettoisation of the country is a really good one, but my first reaction was that I thought the law was supposed to apply equally for everyone. There's ways that cultural/religious sensitivity should be practiced in terms of applying policy (for example, allowing Sikhs to wear their turbans as part of official uniforms) but you can't do the same with the law

I think his comment is being taken out of context..

remember we are talking about helping VICTIMS here.. Let us say that a Sikh lady has been abused by her family. A sikh officer will probably be more familar with the cultural aspects at play when dealing with her and helping her, then perhaps say a non-Sikh...

Would you agree ??

brit sorry i dint notice that. ok But Palbinder Singh chairman of the Metropolitan Police Sikh Association said i don’t believe a white officer is ever going to be fully conversant with a Sikh.But don't let a white officer get caught making a "racist" comment

like that in multi-culti dying Britain ?

Brit, I don't expect you to Shoot first and Ask question later! Thats not how Scotland Yard Police Department works. By the way I am the number one fan of your eastern bunny also.

No idea man..

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

U know hu is that ?? :)

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tEaCh Me RuLeS, i'Ll TeAcH hOw To BrEaK iT ..

rMs..!!

How the hell did you find out about my incident at Ramada ? :O)

Actually, this service does not allow people to pick and choose their police officers. In this trial exercise, VICTIMS can ask for a Sikh officer to be involved and, if required, be their contact with the police.

What does this particular topic have to do with Sharia?

This is just giving victims access to people with similar cultural background!

Doesn't mean they would be treated in any way different by the law!

In India, religious law can apply as it is a multi-faith society.

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Brit, so whats the different between getting caught in London and infront of Ramada car park? One thing for sure you don't have the access to preferred police men right

rms was wondering too :)

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

The UK is a liberal democracy. As a matter of law, parties can take their disputes to a private court of arbitration. If this is a Shariah court who cares? So long as it doesnt conflict with the law of the land, whats the problem? As a matter of fact, if ANYONE wants to resolve their conflicts privately it should be encouraged as it doesn't clog the court system.

AGAIN... have you heard of out of court settlements?

How is this different in any way?

yeye, somebody here on pajju's prof again ! :(

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tEaCh Me RuLeS, i'Ll TeAcH hOw To BrEaK iT ..

rMs..!!

Read my other posts, i am the first to complain about political correctness, but this is just scaremongering by the right wing press..

brit bro this is not really that big a deal...it's when these police officers start to operate using sharia on the crimes committed that it will really get interesting..particularily where a non-muslims has committed a crime on a muslim.

Let's step back and put this into perspective first..

This is a trial project.. It does not mean that you can request a specific ethnicity for your case..

The Metropolitan Sikh Police Association (MPSA) is providing Sikh officers on demand to assist with investigations into culture-based crimes like honour killings and forced marriages.

The new service will not allow victims of crime to prevent a white officer taking on their case. However, they can ask for a Sikh officer to be involved and, if required, be their contact with the police.

Officers hope the website will give a voice to women who may be in danger of honour-based violence or forced marriage, or who are restricted from making an unsupervised phone call or leaving their home.

The Met said the new service, which has been pioneered by the MPSA, could be extended to other minority groups in future.

That has got to be a joke. No one could be that stupid... Well, actualy.

Spot on respectful criticism should not be confused with hate!

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A wise young crackpot knows no fear - Ian Dury.

Well as I was writing this the posts from saint and sim were hitting -

so maybe sure I can be classified an idiot but this idiot has no reason or inclinication to hate muslims... that being said, I don't think you can have a sub-set of laws associated with Sharia inside a western country if those Sharia laws/guidelines are in conflict with the western laws.

As an example what if the racist nuts in southern US wanted to bring back the rules of the Klu Klux Klan? Would they then be permitted to carry out what the national law considers a hate crime? I think not!

Salaam

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A wise young crackpot knows no fear - Ian Dury.

No Militude,

I guess it is difficult for you to think from 'European' perspective and therefore display a classic case of tunnel-vision. Something I can not blame you for.

These are 3 articles out of dozens, hundreds if you would include western Europe. We have secular governments, Sharia does NOT fit in our societies. Simple as that. Numerous illegal Sharia Courts that have been discovered is yet another disgrace, no less than a 'screw you' towards the hand that feeds them. This is what makes people skeptic, not the presence of Muslim.

Further more, you keep on nagging about Muslim hate, Xenophobia. Well, your are yet again incredibly wrong. Your limited thinking capacity sees criticism as hate. Hate has nothing to do with it, it is just easier for you to assume as that would put you in a underdog position and create sympathy among readers, weak beyond comprehension.

Isn't this as simple as you abide by the rules/laws of the country in which you choose to live (or visit).

EG should those Brits who were sentenced for inappropriate PDA in UAE this year have had access to a separate western standard which might not have punished them in the same way? I think not!

We are still a world of countries, not religions, no disrespect intended to any country or religion!

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A wise young crackpot knows no fear - Ian Dury.

they should have a separate law for you... IDIOT law...

what are you ranting about?

this article has nothing to do with separate laws!

As for your statement

"If I want my wife stoned to death do I convert to Islam and demand my cultural rights?"

You come half way across the world, you get the chance to interact first hand with Muslims and this is what you come up with?

I guess you just need an excuse to hate Muslims...

Try to broaden your horizons and think of alternative societies and cultures to what you are familiar and comfortable with...

It has been discussed many times that if you want to live in any country (or be an invited guest) than abide by the host laws. If you feel discontent then why go to the extend of demonstrations. Get a one way ticket back to where you belongs.

One law for all, not seperate laws for individuals. If I want my wife stoned to death do I convert to Islam and demand my cultural rights? If I want to rid a bike without a helmet do I become a Sikh? Hang on I've got it, I just adopt every religion going and then claim only god can judge me when I murder someone.....

Thank you for illustrating my point with three articles

The first one is about an Islamic Sharia system which is not binding by law, but just a system that Muslims can abide by if they wish to live under Islamic rule... its voluntary... Haven't you heard of our of court settlements before?

the second one is also to do with the same issue...

The third one is a classic issue of the stupidity of others being used as means to vilify Muslims. The Muslims have reserved a time probably bcos they don't want women in the pool during that time and some stupid employee who doesn't understand Islamic laws turned the people away... What does that have to do with Islam?

Its just excuses made by people to hate Muslims... and you are a Grade A Applicant

This could lead to polarisation of race equity in any legal proceeding. Ideally it could be lump into a centralised British common law where standard judgement are applied to all cases. And that would avoid double standard in every cases. Why would honour killing and forced marriage be of anything special especially when dealing with immigrant cultural outfit.. The proposal of a dedicated officer to be in charge of any events could be justified for their throughtness understanding of the case, but a seperate laws are not relevant.

But I don't understand what culture has to do with it? If you break the law - you break the law. I understand requesting interpretors if english isn't the first language but there should be no need to request someone who knows their culture better then "a white officer". Exceptions are not going to be made just because the cultures are different.

www.qaws.org

From the BBC article...

"The new service will not allow victims of crime to prevent a white officer taking on their case.

However, they can ask for a Sikh officer to be involved and, if required, be their contact with the police."

Its just someone who can understand the culture better... its not a Muslim getting own police like Harmagedon put it...

and neither has it anything to do with having their own set of laws as Scarlett put it...

Say Militude,

Tabloid mentality, no. Merely skepticism over a range of odd incidents.

Comments are not solely related to this particular topic, comments are mostly an over-all impression accumulated issues that stand out.

That your perception is that of a Muslim and clearly refuse to approach the subject in an objective manner is maybe signatory for the whole issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330193,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560231/Public-pool-bars-father-son-Muslim-swimming-session.html;jsessionid=0AFB2E36174A4078707CE4660253A842

And you can come up with a whole range of articles where Muslims clash because of religiously/culturally related incidents.

I deeply regret Europe is heading in this direction, BUT Militude, what's worse it that there a too many, like you, who do not want to hear about criticism as it is too emotional for you and therefore you choose to stick your head in the sand, which is the dumbest choice ever as this means that you choose to let it linger.... until it explodes.

trying to create police response based on religious "sensitivity" means that what divides us (religion) now takes precedence over what unites us (nationality).

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8161547.stm

the Sikh are getting their own police

but the Sikhs aren't hated that much

but the Muslims are...

so tabloid mentality... write an article saying the Muslims are getting their own police...

and quote the official out of context

yeah, so what if the the ragheads ain't gettin their own coppers... everyone hates em anyway... this gets maximum press mileage...

there has been no formal announcement of a Muslim police force but people are shoving it down everyone's throat...

saying this COULD happen, lets curse em for it already

Bloody Islamophobist Pommies

Scarlett - hi, but these are citizens scarlett , expats are temporary servants. However it sounds stupid .

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Midfielder,

Immediate deportation. Indeed.

Compare in terms of tolerance what 'the west' has done for Muslims, and what Muslims have done for 'the west'.

World of differences in my humble opinion.

Harmagedon - right, exactly the concern, I mean if someone here starting asking for 2nd Amendment here (as an example), I mean they'd throw them out!

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A wise young crackpot knows no fear - Ian Dury.

They may be Sikh (yes tot diff than muslims) but they are still living in England and should be held to English law. Just as us expats living in Qatar are held to Qatari law. Mindless, there is no way to implement this without creating chaos in the courtrooms.

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A wise young crackpot knows no fear - Ian Dury.

Yes, but unfortunately some Muslims are saying

"Thank you for hosting us, now give us Sharia"

In Germany there is already something in place called 'leitkultur' (leading culture), it is ridiculous.

Isnt Islam and Sikhism completely different? Who ever wrote this article is a complete moron

"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.

It's bloody stupid.

If you want to live in Britain, you follow british law. There is one set of laws and there shouldn't be different ways of using it. There should be no difference between how a christian officer deals with a case and how a muslim officer does. And if there is a difference in how religions are treated then there'll be huge problems with racism and favouritism. People will start quoting different religions as excuses and as a way of using loop-holes.

www.qaws.org

they are setting a very unwise precedent in this case. but then again...they tend to do that in other respects as well...They have been considering letting some of the communities be judged by their own religious beliefs. I certainly don't see any Middle Eastern countries or places like China, India, and others, changing their laws to suit the expats!

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

Not at all practical, you can't expect a special law and order or officer to take care of your case, because you are belongs to a minority group or special caste. I think all the citizen should treat in same manner and judgement should be fair for all. Like in Saudi, rules and regulations are different for natives and expatrites. They are thinking that's the correct way, lot of discrimination exists there.

Scarlett, I am wondering if Britain isn't taking it too far. Making all kinds of exceptions for the multi-cultural aspect of society will eventually upset a large majority. You can imagine that as soon as a Brit feels to start like a stranger in his own country he will seek a political spectrum that promises restoring of the British Morals and Values, this would usually be extreme left- or right-winged parties, which are often nationalistic and come with a great deal of racism towards minorities. Usually the largest minority is the one that needs to be hanged, in this case... not a nationality, but a religious group.

Danger ahead!

that's kind of interesting...especially since other countries do not bend over backwards for other religions in police matters.

The law is the law...everyone, regardless of their religion, should follow the law of the country they are in. Being a different religion in another country doesn't automatically give you the right to a different set of laws according to your particular religion.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-