ok... so let's say the poster will persist to what her heart desires... while it is true that most marriages in our common grown up society were not anymore guided by the hands of the older members of the families rather solely decided by both marrying parties and nobody would dare to intervene to that... however in settling for a new phases of life without asking permissions, blessings from the older members of the families... the pinch of the whole life curse that might strike in your togetherness is fearful...
CHEN - Just to make the things not complicated, why dont you emphasize which society you are referring to. Since you put it the main thread, definitely you will expect a lot of different answers from other nationalities with customs and norms distinct from you..
I think people remained confused on the difference between "first counsin" and "first degree", "second cousin" and "second degree", add infinitum.... there is no such thing as "cousins" in law, only "civil degree of conguinity" of affinity. People, ignorancia legis non excusat....
first, north_me only give his NO opinion for marrying a 3rd cousin. am sure, he is just giving a fatherly concern to the poster's question.
secondly, north_me is emphasizing what has been stated in the family code... and that's the truth. is there any funny thing about that?
although a relative-to-relative marriage had been specified by such law yet it was only implemented just to set the margin to determine the edges of church and the state boundaries.
Whereas, in reality it is disgraceful to the whole community you are living with. Their children find it revengeless if teased by their fellow playmates...
So mostly, those relative-to-relative couples hide or fled away from this judgemental community and start their life in far away where nobody knows either any of them.
Vivo - north_me stated that you can't marry until the fourth degree, and incorrectly asusmed that 3rd cousin meant third degree. When in fact, third cousin is something like 8th degree.
If you are living in philippines, i can say NO you cant marry your 3rd cousin. In our society and new family code, you are not allowed to marry until fourth civil degree.
although church acceptance is widely known to most catholics... but still remained taboo in practice for marrying such relative, it is like fencing your own family from the harsh of the outside critique society... yet you remained enclosed by the fence you'd built that in the end you cannot get out from it.
It's not about the immediate effect it will have on the cousin's children. It's the prolonged interbreeding leading to genetic disorders. They wont be recognisable immediately.
Yes… as someonenew said…its a common practice in my place to marry first cousins...few of my friends married their cousins..but fortunately their kids are fine till now ....
My uncle asked me if I am interested to marry his son…. I politely refused saying that he is my brother… How can I think otherwise…..he was interested though...crazy..
In Kerala, India people marry first cousins. The guy marries the Mother's brother's daughter. Its been a practise in the Hindu community for a very long time. Only in the recent years have they stopped doing that for all the obvious reasons:)
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
Religious views should not be confused with scientific views. They won't match.
As for me, it's a matter of looking at the probability of getting abnormal off spring. To some, 10% probability is OK, to others, 0.0001% is not unacceptable.
although it is apparent to the church and its people such acceptance in executing matrimonial ceremonies to those close cousin-relationship is accepted but my whole idea of trying to raise for the poster is to awaken her for reality.
i will narrate some of my neighbor's first-cousin-couple family experience. Their eldest is now a sophomore college student today. Although they live the life as usual like us do... but with the differences that the family ties in between related families mesh apart.... and it is enevitable for many other people would say unwanted words to hear... so if she hopes to get a life like this... at least she's aware to be ready...
I think if Chen was a super religious person concerned with being condemed by the church they wouldnt have a 'lover' in the first place as this is also a sin in the church isnt it?
Third cousins arent that closely related. It never ceases to amaze me the pepper we can add to things sometimes. By society you mean general people you will meet in your life then who gives a toss? If it is your family you are concerned with you will have to ask them. As for church acceptance, just google it.
Well there's knocking on the door, and then there's blowing the door right off. In your comment you come across as judge, jury and executioner.
And to top it all, it seems that what you say is wrong. Apparently marriage to 2nd cousins has been allowed by the Catholic church since 1983, and you can even get a dispensation to allow you to marry your 1st cousin. So there's definitely no problem with 3rd cousins.
And the reason they banned it in the first place was to prevent accumulation of wealth by families, which was seen as a threat to the church. It had nothing to do with health reason.
(this information was obtained by a google search)
to get involved such as like lovers relationship, sexual intercourse, marriage or whatever with relatives -- is an act of animalistic behavior and is absolutely condemn by the church and by the entire society...
your question clearly implied a wrong manifestations. the relationship you're entering is primarily wrong at the very first instance. you are definitely guilty of what you intend to do.
so for you to get rid out of the problem... you might convert yourself so u must be freed out from the margin of this critique community and stop asking of what is forbidden.
why would u ask to if and when at the very first place you are confident of your relationship to show to the rest of the world you don't contravene any norms from the society you have been shaped and grown appropraitely.
If u are a muslim, cousins are allowed to marry. if u are a christian, unde church & civil laws, first cousins by affinity or consanguinity are not allowed to marry. Reasons are medical and societal based.
i think it depends too on your culture, for filipinos, it's taboo to marry or have a relationship with your relative. for arabs, they can marry even their 1st cousin. most of the people here are concerned with the children you gonna have, well they are right. I work in the hospital, we have lots of patients with defects because their parents are cousins or so. think about your children, not your happiness for now...BTW, you're cute.
What we ordinarily understood as "first cousin" is considered in law as 4th civil degree, "2nd counsin" as 8th degree, and "3rd cousin" as 12th degree. What the law prohibits is only within the 3rd civil degree relationship.
"3rd cousins" relationship of whatever nature is not proscribed by law. Family Laws on marriage in both civil and common-law jurisdictions are almost uniform in the sense that prohibition on consanguity (by blood) or affinity (by marriage) relationship is limited within the 3rd civil degree only. In counting civil degree in law, one has to return to a common ancestor and count each descent or assent as one degree.
Thus, between a father and daughter is considered 1st degree, between a grandfather and grandaughter is second degree, and between great-great grandpa and great-great granddaughter is 3rd degree. The same count shall apply to the descent and assent of the mother's side. Up to 3rd degree. (Refer to chart of tallg for directions).
Our religious customs and traditions, in view of "some" moral issues, however, proscribe blood-related relationship regardless of civil degree in consanguinity especially if we carry the same surname, but not in affinity.
third cousin is pretty far off...i don't even know who my third cousins are! i don't think there's as much of a chance of inbreeding abnormalities as is being insinuated...so i guess if it floats you boat then go for it!
Personally I don't think I'd marry a third cousin.
chen - It's not that they'll necessarily have an abnormal baby. But any genetic deficiencies or weaknesses that are common to that families DNA will potentially be strengthened by the inter-breeding, and after many generations the defect or weakness may manifest itself in some way.
Dogs are a good example of this. Mixed breeds generally have longer life spans than pure breeds. The pure breeds mate within their breed and strengthen the defects common to that breead. For example, dalmation dogs are prone to deafness because this is a genetic defect common to their breed.
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ok... so let's say the poster will persist to what her heart desires... while it is true that most marriages in our common grown up society were not anymore guided by the hands of the older members of the families rather solely decided by both marrying parties and nobody would dare to intervene to that... however in settling for a new phases of life without asking permissions, blessings from the older members of the families... the pinch of the whole life curse that might strike in your togetherness is fearful...
>
What cousin are you already sleeping with Chen???/
Power to the non believers, it’s a great feeling to have and hold.
Chunk!!!!
spot on amoud!!!
Flan!!! Its the dude from Goonies right? That movies ancient.
____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
chen, this is what happens when inbreeding occurs.
CHEN - Just to make the things not complicated, why dont you emphasize which society you are referring to. Since you put it the main thread, definitely you will expect a lot of different answers from other nationalities with customs and norms distinct from you..
MO RIN...YUN LANG!!!
I think people remained confused on the difference between "first counsin" and "first degree", "second cousin" and "second degree", add infinitum.... there is no such thing as "cousins" in law, only "civil degree of conguinity" of affinity. People, ignorancia legis non excusat....
first, north_me only give his NO opinion for marrying a 3rd cousin. am sure, he is just giving a fatherly concern to the poster's question.
secondly, north_me is emphasizing what has been stated in the family code... and that's the truth. is there any funny thing about that?
although a relative-to-relative marriage had been specified by such law yet it was only implemented just to set the margin to determine the edges of church and the state boundaries.
Whereas, in reality it is disgraceful to the whole community you are living with. Their children find it revengeless if teased by their fellow playmates...
So mostly, those relative-to-relative couples hide or fled away from this judgemental community and start their life in far away where nobody knows either any of them.
>
Vivo - north_me stated that you can't marry until the fourth degree, and incorrectly asusmed that 3rd cousin meant third degree. When in fact, third cousin is something like 8th degree.
north_me: third cousin is something like 8th degree
SOCIETY FOR NOT MARRYING RELATIVES..
north?? 1st degree refers to mother/father-child
2nd degree uncle/aunts-nephews
3rd degree 1st cousin-1st cousin...
thats what i've learned from a priest.
If you are living in philippines, i can say NO you cant marry your 3rd cousin. In our society and new family code, you are not allowed to marry until fourth civil degree.
MO RIN...YUN LANG!!!
society you have?
SMR.???
chen boned by third cousin...
go ahead...you got QL's permission...it's okay bone your cousin..damage is done anyway..continue..
to chen, just follow what your heart desires..that will make you happy and contented..
although church acceptance is widely known to most catholics... but still remained taboo in practice for marrying such relative, it is like fencing your own family from the harsh of the outside critique society... yet you remained enclosed by the fence you'd built that in the end you cannot get out from it.
>
IF SO INTERESTED, GO FOR A MEDICAL CHECKUP BEFORE TOO LATE
HEY WHAT IF UR THIRD COUSINS FATHER IS NOT THE REAL BIOLOGICAL FATHEY ...THEN THER IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS IN GENETICS MATCH....
I RECOMMEND A WIDE RANGE OF GENE POOL FOR FUTURE BETTERNESS.
It's not about the immediate effect it will have on the cousin's children. It's the prolonged interbreeding leading to genetic disorders. They wont be recognisable immediately.
Yes… as someonenew said…its a common practice in my place to marry first cousins...few of my friends married their cousins..but fortunately their kids are fine till now ....
My uncle asked me if I am interested to marry his son…. I politely refused saying that he is my brother… How can I think otherwise…..he was interested though...crazy..
I think 3rd cousin is not a problem..
not for me thanks.
Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand
But for me its stil Yewwwwww!
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
In Kerala, India people marry first cousins. The guy marries the Mother's brother's daughter. Its been a practise in the Hindu community for a very long time. Only in the recent years have they stopped doing that for all the obvious reasons:)
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
That's first cousin. Very different to third cousin. See diagram here; http://www.qatarliving.com/node/482762#comment-881399
Religious views should not be confused with scientific views. They won't match.
As for me, it's a matter of looking at the probability of getting abnormal off spring. To some, 10% probability is OK, to others, 0.0001% is not unacceptable.
although it is apparent to the church and its people such acceptance in executing matrimonial ceremonies to those close cousin-relationship is accepted but my whole idea of trying to raise for the poster is to awaken her for reality.
i will narrate some of my neighbor's first-cousin-couple family experience. Their eldest is now a sophomore college student today. Although they live the life as usual like us do... but with the differences that the family ties in between related families mesh apart.... and it is enevitable for many other people would say unwanted words to hear... so if she hopes to get a life like this... at least she's aware to be ready...
LOL...and to think that I'm not even acquainted with all of my second cousins, forget third!!
I think if Chen was a super religious person concerned with being condemed by the church they wouldnt have a 'lover' in the first place as this is also a sin in the church isnt it?
Third cousins arent that closely related. It never ceases to amaze me the pepper we can add to things sometimes. By society you mean general people you will meet in your life then who gives a toss? If it is your family you are concerned with you will have to ask them. As for church acceptance, just google it.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
get a grip.. share your DNA to others..
follow the doctrines or teachings of the church... as much as possible do the right thing!!!!
.
lol family reunion....
~ black is beautiful ~
Well there's knocking on the door, and then there's blowing the door right off. In your comment you come across as judge, jury and executioner.
And to top it all, it seems that what you say is wrong. Apparently marriage to 2nd cousins has been allowed by the Catholic church since 1983, and you can even get a dispensation to allow you to marry your 1st cousin. So there's definitely no problem with 3rd cousins.
And the reason they banned it in the first place was to prevent accumulation of wealth by families, which was seen as a threat to the church. It had nothing to do with health reason.
(this information was obtained by a google search)
am just knocking the door to awaken her up in her unforgivable dreams... the final choice still lies on the decision of the poster.
>
wowsers!
to the practice and culture of roman catholics...
to get involved such as like lovers relationship, sexual intercourse, marriage or whatever with relatives -- is an act of animalistic behavior and is absolutely condemn by the church and by the entire society...
your question clearly implied a wrong manifestations. the relationship you're entering is primarily wrong at the very first instance. you are definitely guilty of what you intend to do.
so for you to get rid out of the problem... you might convert yourself so u must be freed out from the margin of this critique community and stop asking of what is forbidden.
why would u ask to if and when at the very first place you are confident of your relationship to show to the rest of the world you don't contravene any norms from the society you have been shaped and grown appropraitely.
>
haha....:)
lolxx at reunoin :P
thanks amici, but anyway many says nothing's wrong having relationship with your 3rd cousin.
i think in muslim country they will agreed for this cousins relationship but in roman catholic this is a sin (if i am not mistaken)
- hal ko! -
first cousins are within third civil degree.
from what law is rimlaw talking bout, if i may ask?
maybe... i dont know
If u are a muslim, cousins are allowed to marry. if u are a christian, unde church & civil laws, first cousins by affinity or consanguinity are not allowed to marry. Reasons are medical and societal based.
i think it depends too on your culture, for filipinos, it's taboo to marry or have a relationship with your relative. for arabs, they can marry even their 1st cousin. most of the people here are concerned with the children you gonna have, well they are right. I work in the hospital, we have lots of patients with defects because their parents are cousins or so. think about your children, not your happiness for now...BTW, you're cute.
I think having children with your third cousin will cause them to write in very strange typing cases :)
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
haha...i guess i would agree on solid snakes's statement...:) its gonna be fun!
i think it works....:$
Keepin it in the family as they say!!!
is that a banjo playing in the background????
one thing is for sure, there's a family reunion at your wedding..
if you knew it at the very first place... then so you must therefore get away from it....
but if at your whole life never knew about it and only happened to find out after marriage... then there's nothing you could get back reversing it.
>
I think, according to the Hindu marriage act it is not allowed to marry any cousin.
LOVE is Highly recommended when we talk about "relationship bf/gf or husband and wife....
But we have to think the abnormality of OuR future children. Would yoU want to see them being abNorMAL?
Now its UP to you Guys...
REad Below Link:
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/syria/?id=31549
No problem. The bottom line is love & till death do us part
What we ordinarily understood as "first cousin" is considered in law as 4th civil degree, "2nd counsin" as 8th degree, and "3rd cousin" as 12th degree. What the law prohibits is only within the 3rd civil degree relationship.
"3rd cousins" relationship of whatever nature is not proscribed by law. Family Laws on marriage in both civil and common-law jurisdictions are almost uniform in the sense that prohibition on consanguity (by blood) or affinity (by marriage) relationship is limited within the 3rd civil degree only. In counting civil degree in law, one has to return to a common ancestor and count each descent or assent as one degree.
Thus, between a father and daughter is considered 1st degree, between a grandfather and grandaughter is second degree, and between great-great grandpa and great-great granddaughter is 3rd degree. The same count shall apply to the descent and assent of the mother's side. Up to 3rd degree. (Refer to chart of tallg for directions).
Our religious customs and traditions, in view of "some" moral issues, however, proscribe blood-related relationship regardless of civil degree in consanguinity especially if we carry the same surname, but not in affinity.
Even second cousins are considered just fine for marrying/having children. I'd say third cousins are no problem.
Mandi
Please BE AWARE of AbNorMAL Child... The Kids wiLL SUffer NoT ONly THE PAreNTs...
3rd cousin relationship?....As of my OpiNION...NO! its ImpossibLE but if YOU really WANtED it then It's POSSIBLE..
apology.he!he!he!
third cousin is pretty far off...i don't even know who my third cousins are! i don't think there's as much of a chance of inbreeding abnormalities as is being insinuated...so i guess if it floats you boat then go for it!
what have I said that's "out the line"?
let chen make her decision..we dont know at her future,they will produce much more sophisticated offspring of their love..
we are talking about the issue of chen here.dont go out the line.
peace..
thank you...thank you....
60%percent normal 40% abnormal.if you are in filed of doctorate you will know what it means.
I think it was 'genesis' who mentioned in another thread that as a Qatari he closely related to nearly every other Qatari he meets.
authistic is one of the examples of their offsring in human,just observe the arabs people.
chen love is blind go and tie the knots...
Personally I don't think I'd marry a third cousin.
chen - It's not that they'll necessarily have an abnormal baby. But any genetic deficiencies or weaknesses that are common to that families DNA will potentially be strengthened by the inter-breeding, and after many generations the defect or weakness may manifest itself in some way.
Dogs are a good example of this. Mixed breeds generally have longer life spans than pure breeds. The pure breeds mate within their breed and strengthen the defects common to that breead. For example, dalmation dogs are prone to deafness because this is a genetic defect common to their breed.
legal for brothers and sisters to be lovers..... strange but true.
anyway, thanks for sharing your ideas pit...:)
youre a nurse right?i suggest you to read more of your books..got to go..goodluck..
pit
Mrscv,phd
ur reference..
so what do you want? marry your 3rd cousin? then go ahead and tie the knot
ive known people marrying their 3rd cousins, with no abnormal babies
making objection about your feeling,im just only concern about that.
this chart is appropraite,but in breeding of human with the same dna 60% is normal 40 is not.
nothing different to animals...for proof i will send you my study in inbreeding and also the new chart of inbreeding chen...
thanks tallg, and yeah right pit, forgot to look at you :)
it is already proven.just look around..
Looking at this diagram I'd say 3rd cousins are so far apart there's no problem. And as I said, I think the UK even allows 1st cousin relationships.
pit, it occurs more with 1st cousins... and abnormal birth? its commonly caused by the pressure given to the mother
she/hes your 3rd cousin your DNA almost match...
one of the reason why a lot of abnormal child birth..
3rd cousins is not a big deal, right?
I think in the UK it's legal for cousins to be "lovers". But any closer relation than that is illegal.
Here I believe it's more common.
Even the thought of it is a sin...yaiiiks!!!