Pope says condoms won't solve AIDS
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_re_af/af_pope_africa
On Africa trip, pope says condoms won't solve AIDS
YAOUNDE, Cameroon – Pope Benedict XVI said condoms are not the answer to the AIDS epidemic in Africa and can make the problem worse, setting off criticism Tuesday as he began a weeklong trip to the continent where some 22 million people are living with HIV.
Benedict's first statement on an issue that has divided even Catholic clergy working with AIDS patients came hours before he arrived in Cameroon's capital — greeted by thousands of flag-waving faithful who stood shoulder-to-shoulder in red dirt fields and jammed downtown streets for a glimpse of the pontiff's motorcade.
In his four years as pope, Benedict had never directly addressed condom use, although his position is not new. His predecessor, Pope John Paul II, often said that sexual abstinence — not condoms — was the best way to prevent the spread of the disease.
Benedict also said the Roman Catholic Church was at the forefront of the battle against AIDS.
"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane heading to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
The pope said a responsible and moral attitude toward sex would help fight the disease, as he answered questions submitted in advance by reporters traveling on the plane. His response was presumably also prepared in advance.
The Catholic Church rejects the use of condoms as part of its overall teaching against artificial contraception. Senior Vatican officials have advocated fidelity in marriage and abstinence from premarital sex as key weapons in the fight against AIDS.
The late Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo made headlines in 2003 for saying that condoms may help spread AIDS through a false sense of security, claiming they weren't effective in blocking transmission of the virus. The cardinal, who died last year, headed the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family.
Three-quarters of all AIDS deaths worldwide in 2007 were in sub-Saharan Africa, where some 22 million people are infected with HIV — accounting for two-thirds of the world's infections, according to UNAIDS.
Rebecca Hodes with the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa said if the pope is serious about preventing HIV infections, he should focus on promoting wide access to condoms and spreading information on how to use them.
"Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans," said Hodes, head of policy, communication and research for the group.
Hodes said the pope was right that condoms are not the sole solution to Africa's AIDS epidemic, but added they are one of the very few proven measures to prevent HIV infections.
Even some priests and nuns working with those infected with the AIDS virus question the church's opposition to condoms amid the pandemic ravaging Africa. Ordinary Africans do as well.
"Talking about the nonuse of condoms is out of place. We need condoms to protect ourselves against diseases and AIDS," teacher Narcisse Takou said in Yaounde.
Stanley Obale Okpu, a civil servant working in the ministry of urban development in Cameroon, said: "What the pope says is an ideal for the Catholic church. But he needs to look at the realities on the ground. One should be aware of these realities. In the case of Cameroon — and Africa as a whole — condoms are very necessary ... You need condoms to prevent AIDS and birth control."
A crowd of photographers and cameras flashed as the 81-year-old pontiff stepped off the plane into the steaming 88-degree heat, with humidity levels measuring a wilting 90 percent.
It was the first stop on a weeklong pilgrimage that will also take Benedict to Angola as he seeks to draw international attention to Africa's problems of famine, poverty and armed conflict.
The pope was greeted by Cameroon's President Paul Biya, who has ruled since 1982 and whose government has been accused by Amnesty International of abuses in crushing political opponents.
The pope made no specific reference to the situation in Cameroon, but he did say in general remarks on Africa that "a Christian can never remain silent" in the face of violence, poverty, hunger, corruption or abuse of power.
"The saving message of the Gospel needs to be proclaimed loud and clear so that the light of Christ can shine into the darkness of people's lives," Benedict said as the president and other political leaders looked on.
Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Catholic church, though it competes with Islam and evangelical churches.
The pope said Tuesday he intends to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn. He said while the church does not propose specific economic solutions, it can give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.
He described the current crisis as the result of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures."
"It is here that the church can make a contribution," he said.
On the plane, Benedict also dismissed the notion that he was facing increasing opposition and isolation within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultraconservatives that led to his lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop.
"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," the pope said, adding that he has a network of friends and aides whom he sees every day.
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Associated Press writers Krista Larson in Johannesburg and Emmanuel Tumanjong in Yaounde contributed to this report.
Take it from the expert... hehehe lolz
'the Pope went on to further say:
"Smoking cures cancer and if you are looking for a quick morning pick me up - try heroin!" '
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
being the Head of Catholic Church dosent mean we have to follow or even believe every comments/suggestions he make.
we all r knowlegable enought & threfore know wht is told by him aint right.
the problem is he may have used a condom himself, but probably in the wrong hole & that made it tearoff & since then he is against condoms.. LOOOOL
~noms~
"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein
You can't teach experience...
I think a lot of people here don't quite understand exactly how a condom works. A condom merely creates a physical barrier between 2 peoples discharges. Much like wearing a plastic glove will stop your hand getting wet if you hold your hand under the tap. That's all. If there is a hole in the glove, your hand will still get wet. The Pope doesn't believe in using condoms because he believes every time a male ejaculates, it should be to potentially impregnate his wife. It is not some evil incarnate idea that Satan has implanted into the minds of people to make them stray from the path of God. Furthermore, the idea that condoms are evil is a human interpretation of what the Bible says, because obviously the Bible says nothing about the use of condoms at all.
You can't teach experience...
your logic and yes condoms can tear etc. However, not all. If say, 1,000,000 used them and only a couple of thousand tore, do you still not think it better to use than not to use?
To me it reduces the risk.
Until there is a cure found and peoples attitudes change towards sex any attempt at reducing the numbers is a good thing.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
A condom facilitates many social evils which all religions condemn, besides providing protection against STDs. As a religious icon the pope had to weight the pros and cons. His logic could be this:
No condom --> Fear of STDs may prevent illegal sex and hence STDs and in the long run may actually throw away the real evil(AIDS)
I read at several places that a condom may not prevent the conception itself then how can it prevent STDs.
Those who think sex should be free like food ofcourse cann't afford to giveup condom anyway...
the whole HIV/AIDS issue hit the UK in the 80's, there was a massive campaign at the time to support the use of condoms.
It has been proven that condoms can help reduce the spread of this disease.
Now we know more about it, we also know it can be spread through needles (drug users are at risk), blood transfusions (so anybody that has surgery in some countries run the risk).
We can't stop it, but we can try and prevent the spread.
If he thinks that by supplying people with condoms will encourage promoscuity he is wrong. It was promoscuity that helped it along.
In England we even handed out clean needles to drug users in order to discourage them sharing them.
It could have been said that would encourage drug use. However, in reality it helped, the number of cases of HIV is less in IV drug users than they first thought.
I think the only reason he has advised against them is they are a contreception. To me that is great.
Why bring children into the world when you can't feed them and their is a risk they may die of something you passed onto them?
In the Catholic faith, or so my mother told me years ago (I don't know if it still stands). A Catholic woman cannot refuse her husband sex as sex is for reproduction ONLY.
So not only do these people have a problem in that some have several partners at a time, even if the wife suspected or knew her husband was HIV positive, she STILL has to have sex with him.
This is brain washing at its best. The Vatican has a lot to answer to already but this is yet another example of why I am thank god an athiest lol
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
I have worked in Africa and it is very sad what the church does there.
They say condoms dont stop aids well obvioulsy not 100% but pretty close. I have heard of people saying condoms "contain aids", conspiracies that they are to kill black people etc.
Bush's gov after pressure from far right chritistian groups stopped funding charities involved in condom distribution or working with sex workers. In uganda which had been reducing aids through its ABC - "Abstain - Be faithfull - Condomise" scheme was pressured to drop the Condomise, and posters promoting condom use were taken down. Aids is now on increase again!!!
In general Aids is coming down among youngsters and sex workers, but married people cheating are the problem group.
I remember after the bosnian war, there was an issue of the previous pope saying that morning after pills should not be allowed for rape cases. The morning afterpill is given within 72 hours of being raped. What I usually wonder is... Is the pope a good judge when it comes of the issues of women, sexual health, abuse etc. He does not have a daughter, or a wife, it has been decades sicne he has lived with his mother, so would the plight of women really affect him as much as it affects the fathers and husbands and children of these women who are raped, harrassed and are expected to happily raise the children of their rapers? Can you force the poor little girls to bear the burdon of animals? As a human being regardless of any religion, I would expect him to jump up and down to help them with any means. Including the pill. When I see the suffering of AIDS victims, the women and children of Africa, suffering for mostly something they have no fault with, I would say, by the grace of God, please give whatever power to the other women to use Condoms if it may help them not to be in the same situation. I couldn't imagine seeing my sister, my daughter or my mother suffering like that so if condom will protect or give them a chance to avoid this, I will say Yes Yes Yes to rubber, agains all my strict relegion stand (teaching). Given the reallity of Africa, I would have expected the catholic church as an institution and a pope individually to make the exception....well why is the religeious stand so important the the life of this poor people? I Wonder....
No, make him give up his position. He obviously shouldn't be in it.
Kill the man?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
How can you be civil? The man has just worsened an already horrible situation. And no Condoms are not the ONLY solution, but they are one of the only ones we have, and they needed to be encouraged, not discouraged, especially by someone who has a great deal of control over the populace.
The man has single handly caused the infection of thousands of more people. What is civil about that?
I think Gypsy, your second point is very valid. Why should wife suffer for irresponsible husband. Atleast there the condom should be encouraged.
by non-sexual means, why is the solution falls in this means (isn't it condom is use for sexual means?). The Pope view is subject to our dissection. That is why we have this discussion!
I don't agree with him 100 % on this issue but let us be civil in criticizing the man!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
If they don't have money for a medical check-up, they shouldn't have children.
I'm not agreeing with you at all, you're saying the Pope was right in what he said that condoms are not the answer, that absintence and fidelity in marriage are, however I've given you ample proof that AIDS is also (and apprantely more widely spread) through non-sexual means, so abstinence and fidelity are NOT the answer and condoms, constant testing and education are the answer.
for medical check-up? What you are saying now is what I said. Are you agreeing with me now?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Everyone just needs to "Chill out" :) That's the best medicine.
Dmighty if they want to have a baby they should get checked, if they are both clean, then they should have the baby, after the baby is born, back to condoms for the both of them. They should also ensure that their children are properly checked all the time.
As for wiping out an entire race, the AIDS epidemic is effecting every race in Africa, not just one.
to have children? If your perception is right, I agree with you, their generation should stop on this couple. But if your perception is wrong, you played God in the wiping out of an entire race!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Yes Dmighty, they should be using condoms. If they have AIDS they should not have children. IF they have children with AIDS the children will die of AIDS. Either way, no new generation.
For hundreds of thousands of South African children to have acquired HIV sexually, inordinately high levels of childhood sexual exposure would be required, a phenomenon unlikely to have been overlooked by paediatricians. Recent reports from South Africa discourage this hypothesis. For example, in a large survey of women in South Africa, only 1.6% reported having been raped before age 154; and despite extensive media coverage of infected men seeking virgin girls as a `cure' for their HIV infection, few cases have been documented5. In another South African investigation, the rate of HIV seroconversion following child rape was 1% only, which, along with previous reports, argues against high transmission efficiency even under such circumstances6,7. American experience6 points to a female-to-male ratio in child rape cases of about 5.5:1, whereas HSRC investigators report virtual sex parity in their sample's HIV-infected children. Only 1.4% of 12–14 year olds in the HSRC sample reported being sexually experienced, a rate lower than in other surveys of similarly aged South Africans8. Rates of partner accumulation and of sexual activity among sexually experienced youth respondents were also modest. Even assuming substantial under-reporting of sexual behaviours, the preponderance of HIV infections in children in the South African HSRC sample remains unexplained.
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/brody1/
to have children? Meaning, if ever for argument sake, are you denying these newlyweds to have children of their own? So if everybody use condoms, all African people will just banish by old age? No transmittal, no new babies, no new generation! Only condoms! Is that what you mean?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
There is considerable doubt over whether sexual transmission of HIV alone could account for the rapid spread of AIDS, given the acknowledged low rate of heterosexual HIV transmission in Africa as elsewhere [3] (On Quitting HIV, this series). Thus, concentrating efforts exclusively on reducing sexual transmission at the expense of non-sexual transmission can seriously backfire, even if we ignore the inherent racism involved in stigmatising black Africans as sexually promiscuous and irresponsible [3, 8] (“Let Us Live and Let Them Die”, this series).
In fact, remarkable proportions of self-reported virgins and adolescents in eastern and southern Africa are infected with HIV, but non-sexual routes of transmission have yet to be properly investigated in these populations [9].
For example, a survey by blood tests carried out in rural northeast Tanzania in 1995 found 4.5 percent of self-reported virgins ages 15 to 24 were HIV positive. Similar studies over the past 10 years found HIV prevalence in virgins between 0.1 – 6.5 percent in Ethiopia, 6.4 percent in Kenya, 2.2 percent in Malawi, 0.7 –5.5 percent in South Africa, 6.5 percent in Zambia and 0.5 percent in Uganda. In recent prospective cohort studies in Malawi and Zimbabwe, the annual incidence of HIV infection in persons reporting no sexual exposure during study intervals was 1.2 to 2.4 percent. For decades, researchers, journalists and community members (including children) in sub-Saharan Africa have recognized the potential for HIV transmission through circumcision. Most circumcisions are done by traditional practitioners outside formal healthcare settings, and typically in large numbers in rapid succession. If someone circumcised is HIV infected, then transmission may occur to those subsequently circumcised. Transmission can also happen in formal healthcare settings through unhygienic practices and blood-contaminated surgical instruments, or contaminated needles for injection.
The research team led by Interdisciplinary Scientific Research in Seattle, Washington, in the United States decided to conduct a study assessing the relationship between male and female circumcision and prevalence of HIV infection among virgins and adolescents in Kenya, Lesotho and Tanzania [9]. The results confirmed what they had surmised.
Circumcised male and female virgins were substantially more likely to be HIV-infected than uncircumcised virgins in every sample. Circumcision was common among Kenyan (75 percent) and Tanzanian (63 percent) male virgins, but comparatively uncommon among Kenyan females (18 percent) and Lesothoan male virgins (21 percent). For Kenyan females, the prevalence was 3.2 percent among the circumcised versus 1.4 percent among the uncircumcised, an odds ratio (OR) of 2.38; for Kenyan males, 1.8 percent versus 0 percent; For Lesothoan males, 6.1 percent versus 1.9 percent, OR 3.36; Tanzanian males: 2.9 percent versus 1.0 percent, OR 2.99.
Among adolescents, regardless of sexual experience, circumcision was just as strongly associated with prevalent HIV infection. However, this association changes direction dramatically with age: from a moderate to strong positive association in adolescents (age < 18 years) to the lack of circumcision associated with HIV infection in early adulthood, and remains so for older age groups; uncircumcised adults were more likely to be HIV positive than circumcised adults.
Self-reported sexual experience was independently related to HIV infection only among adolescent females in Kenya, but not among all adolescent males in Kenya, Lesotho and Tanzania.
Circumcision does not exhaust the non-sexual modes of HIV transmission, as some uncircumcised virgins and adolescents were infected.
The authors warn [9] that before promoting male circumcision as an HIV preventive intervention, large and sustained investments and improvements in the safety of care in all settings must be made. Otherwise, “such initiatives may well facilitate transmission of HIV and other blood-borne pathogens.”
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/HIVsexualTransmission.php?printing=yes
there are dissenting views within the Catholic Church. and that's what make this Church good, in my opinion. if this is another church or religion, i doubt it if they are tolerated.
the Vatican modifies its stand from time to time but only after consultation with all bishops/cardinals who represent the parishioners and the Bibical scholars. example: Pope John Paul asks for forgiveness from the Jews for the Holocaust, when it is perceived that the Church did not do everything it can to stop it. Before, he was not allowed to but after all consultations have been made, he was given permission to go ahead with it.
mo lang!
In the view of clergy working in Africa he's wrong too, in the view of a good portion of the Catholic Church he's wrong.
So in the case you just presented Dmighty, what if the husband then gets in a car accident and needs a blood transfusion, which is highly risky in a place where 22 million people have AIDS. From the blood transfusion he contracts HIV. Then, because the Catholic Church says, no, don't use condoms, so his wife gets it, his kids get it, etc.
Also many Africans can't afford the basic blood tests to check for AIDS or are afraid to go. So these two get married, but one already has AIDS (say from their parents,etc) Bang! AIDs is passed on again.
So what should the Catholic Church be saying about that?
no argument on that. But that is the stand of the church, not only by the pope. Would you say, kicked the church out?
In our church, we go for contraceptives but only to your spouse and not for another person.
If I need to control child birth, that's the only time to use a condom or any other contraceptive. But if anybody would advice me, "use condom so you won't get infected", by whom? Who will infect me? I have only one partner?
Let us have another situation, in Africa. Let us say a Catholic man wants to get married in this time when AIDS is rampant there, the priest will just say to him, "condom is not allowed in our church". Setting-aside the procreation aspect, if the man is sure of the woman he will get married, he will marry her and if they are truly honest with each other, they can both get a medical certificate for each of them. If and if there is a chance that either one is infected, by all means, find a way (use condom or other means) to prevent the spread. But the general rule in Catholic is never to use an artificial contraceptive. And that's how I view the Pope's statement. It will test the "realistic' and maturity of the members to decide base on situation on the ground!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
He said: "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane heading to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
Which is misinformation, WRONG, and dangerous. On the contrary it is he who should be kicked out of his position.
the pope did not say do not use, what he said is "it's not the solution". There's a big difference in those statements. What should happened is , those who don't believe this statement should get-out of the church and find a leader who will agree with "perceived" people sentiments.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
and shoot the twats, and let people live their lives as they choose, instead of filling their heads with all sorts of stupid crap.......
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
I think it is time that the International Criminal court issued an arrest warrant against the pope for Genocide due to AIDS in africa a bit like what they have done with the Sundanese leader?
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Pope John Paul pushed for condom use. He said that using condoms where better then spreading AIDs. THAT is a responsible statement, the current Pope's statement was very irresponisble... I miss John Paul :(
but the Pope as head of his church is bound to the stand of the church as a whole. Pushing for condom--use can be done on the ground but not by the head. He dare to oppose the church stand about contraceptives, he will lose his papal position. It's as simple as that!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
No, culturally African men are expected to have mistresses. It's a way of life and pre-exists Christianity in the area with no evidence of going away anytime soon. Increased poverty will only make the situation worse. Condoms, especially wives forcing their husbands to wear one, are the only answer at this time.
As for the Pope being Numero Uno, he is, much like the President, HOWEVER, if you read the article he is being criticized within the Catholic Church, as was the previous Pope. The Pope is not above critcism, in fact he can even be thrown out of the position.
He is above criticism, since he is the Numero Uno as far as the Catholics are concerned.
Secondly, perhaps doling out condoms "encourages" infidelity and promiscuity. Hence , the Papa is right!
Two things:
1) the Pope is an elected figure, much like the President of the USA. He is not above criticism, and I think he would even agree with that.
2) The big problem in Africa is men bringing home AIDS to their wives, children, multiple mistresses, etc. Women already have little say, and if they don't even have the backing of the pope to make their husbands wear condoms they are putting themselves and their children in grave danger.
when you give it a shot, so will I ....;)
Try it.....it's fun...
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
what inspires him is ruling people. He can spout any old shyte and people think it ok.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
even with his own flight the idiot would still drink grog and speak shyte.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Maybe the senile old fool had a bit of altitude sickness on that Alitalia flight......or had a bit too much whisky........I know which I'd have my money on!
Popey boy was wrong. In the Catholic religion, contreception is not allowed, so hence why the bloody old idiot made a stance against condoms.
He does not give a toss about the AIDS issue, for every African that dies, they leave at least 5 kids who are Catholic and they follow the Catholic religion.
It is about numbers. That stupid pontif knows that if he gets to the uneducated he can keep numbers up.
He does not care about lives. The Vatican is a BUSINESS.
He just wants numbers.
How mamy people in poor countries follow these rigid religions? Loads. That is because they have nothihg else to hang onto. THEY HAVE TO BELIEVE. It is all they have.
If this git was truly RELIGIOUS he would not one human suffering the indignity of dying from AIDS.
He does care about that, he cares that he has charmed the uneducated into beleiving his word is IT.
If the condom was used as a contrepative, that is good. It stops unwanted babies growing up in poverty, it stops the Mum feeling she gave to a 'rape' baby and also stops the AIDS virus.
Bring on the rubber I say.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
No hamsters, going by your profile info!
But 2 hamsters are never the same.
Haha Alexa has one bad hamster!
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Im sick of verbally pawning dudes and getting my comments deleted, dang!
Is Pope benedict Atheist?
but it's already curtains for your hampster I'm afraid.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Adey, may be Alexa is a fan of that Bohemian lady Irene adler! hence the flippant comments about Sherlock.
is a hero of mine!
How dare you use a profanity in the same sentence as a fictional character Alexa!!!!!!
I am doubly offended, Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo.
Alexa, May all your rabbits die of Mixama...Miximitos...Mixermatos..., damn!......cock rot!
:D
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
My comment was deleted?
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
tantoun - as a Xtian surely you should turn the other cheek, non?
As if calling people names will offend anyone. Doesn't hurt.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
a cock is not against community guidelines - unless the Pope is a member of QL.
DMS - why are you offended? tallg did not call you a cock!
some may think it but no one called you one (that was a joke by the way :) )
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
dmigty - I'm intrigued what you mean by "you people". Are you referring to all women, all people from Alexa's home country, all westerners, or what?
but for you, it\s easy to call me self-righteous and BS and BT. I can't understand you people. You think you are a superior race? Don't speak to me about yourself, Alexa. I buried that issue already and you're reviving it does not speak well of you. I'm not racist, you are! Try to be civil once in a while!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
my comment is deleted.
What is the average number of sex partners a person has in a lifetime?
The CDC reports the median number of lifetime female sexual partners for men was seven; the median number of male partners for women was four. Averages would be different of course, but the median gives a better value.
Whatever the Poppy says, use Condom, people, it helps....
Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.... Boredom is a choice. - Wayne W.
The church does not condones artificial method of birth control as it is against procreation. And it is a pity for those people in Africa and to the world not to have access with these condoms as more children will be born with disease and will eventually die...this is not ok, not procreation at all! And there will be GREATER problems.
Sex education does help a lot but still it does not stop some people in engaging irresponsable sex.
I think I've discovered the secret of life - you just hang around until you get used to it. ~Charles Schulz
I'm not surprised at all! I think we should change the guidelines to accommodate those good people of QL.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Understood. I'm sure there's lots of derogatory words you use that I wouldn't understand or may find offensive. That's the beauty of different cultures - so much to learn!
Prerogative? Then QL should remove their Community Guidelines. That same guidelines should apply to all.
and similar derogatory words you people are used to. We find it to offensive. Of course, almost a year with QL. I am not surprised anymore. I have learned to know your ways and "flowers from your mouth". Good day. ladies and gentlemen of QL!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
we are not that free! Everything have restrictions and limits.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
As I said dmigty - I stand by my first comment. He is a cock for what he said, and I'm using cock as a derogatory term meaning something along the lines of idiot.
greg, let those people be. they are not of the same faith so the Pope is not talking to them. second, it is not true that the Pope is stupid or whatever so why should we take slight on what is not true?. 3. in this comment, i do feel that the pope is quite irresponsible. perhaps he should have elaborate further or make his stand clear especially since he is in africa. anyways, as what i had posted before on this thread, the pope is the moral compass of his people. his position is not about what is in or trendy or what is popular according to the surveys. his position has been the stand of the church for years now. so nothing is new.
mo lang!
They never cease to amaze me those jokers in The Vatican.
They have supported the IRA, they support Priests who rape boys and girls. However, they are quite happy to ban condoms in a country that has the highest rate of AIDS in the world.
They make me sick.
I won't have anything to do with preventing AIDS, it will be down to the fact it is a contraception.
My thoughts are my own, but I doubt my Mum would agree with some of them.
Gregbais, we are all free to critisize,or ridicule whatever country, whichever person,any ideas,any religion or anything we want.
If you offended, then that is your problem, no-one elses.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
that was you first comment, I think!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
tallg, for the record, I want to make it clear. I am not referring to you when I said "Ridiculed", but other members commented rude about the Pope.
tallg...just open your eyes and read other comments.
If the Pope is being criticized, it's an insult to us, Catholics and it so happen we are QL members.
dmigty - as I've said 3 times now, I'm aware what he was trying to say. I'm criticising him for the way he said it. I stand by my first comment.
Seriously? You feel insulted?
People in the public eye are up for criticism for the things they say and do, especially someone as influential as the pope.
I'm not going into it any more than that cos the exact same issue is currently being discussed to death somewhere else.
not to us. We are the unwanted audience but I learned it from you and other QL bigshots, "if you want respect, earn it!"
That person we are discussing is the Head of the Catholic Church. He is talking to them, whether they follow or not, that's the way they do it inside that church (whatever reality is for them).
Let me point to your argument. Condom promotes promiscuity (debatable, you may argue) but how many of these kind of promiscuious relationship might spread any STD's or HIV virus. I think that's what he meant about his comment on "possibility" of spreading the disease that controlling it! again IMHO!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Oh I forgot.
tallg...there's something to do with the religion (I am not referring to the Condom Issue, but on how the way people reacted and ridiculed the Pope). Just read their comments.
I am still waiting the moderator will block this thread but..Nahh...
and I have no intention of making an exception. You have to read between the lines and understand that you're case maybe not be included in my earlier post!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Yes, that was my point dmigty - the pope is saying condoms allow people to have multiple sexual partners. But he said it in a ridiculous way that will lead to people not using condoms.
Regardless of who he is, he is talking to ordinary people so that is how his words should be judged.
And in terms of respect, if anyone says something ridiculous like he did then they're bound to provoke comments which you deem 'disrespectful'. It doesn't matter what colour, nationality or religion they are. If my Mum came out and said the same thing as the pope I'd be equally "disrespectful".
Guys, remember that the Pope is not forcing everyone NOT to use condoms. Rather he is just giving his advise on behalf of the church. His intention is good. So, there's no need to criticize him.
So, if you want to use condoms, you have the choice - the Pope will NOT kill you.
Granting he will recommend condom, you will still criticize him by saying: He is giving idea to the youth to engage in pre-marital sex because there's condom as protection.
Think about this: If the youth knew that condom will give him safety, he will be brave enough to engage in pre-marital sex. (Sex Education will not work).
but your reasoning has also have another meaning, using condom means allowing one to have multiple sex partners! Do you think a promiscuous person do intend to be responsible in using condom for every encounter?
The issue here is, the person (in this case, the pope) is talking as head of Catholic church and not as ordinary person!
We should look at the issue on his level, not ours!
Again, I am not a Catholic but giving respect is not only to your friend but to your "enemy" as well! That's the Christian (and I supposed, even the Muslim) way! I don't know about others! IMHO.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Yep, I'm aware of them. Now please point out the post or comment which breaks that guideline.
tallg...Here is Community Guidelines No. 2
"1. Do not create topics or posts that criticise, bully or insult other Qatar Living members, and do not flame (e.g. provoke other Qatar Living member into arguments) ...
If any of the rules guidelines are broken, either intentionally or by accident, our moderators will either edit or remove your post"
greg - you're really barking up the wrong tree with this religious tact. I don't think anyone here has posted anything anti-religious. If you think they have, please point it out to me.
This is what the pope was trying to imply;
The advent of condoms mean that more people go round having pre-marital sex, and more sex means more HIV transmission (since condoms aren't 100% safe).
i.e. condoms increases the risk of HIV.
But it came across as though he was saying that you there's no point using condoms, which is sooooo irresponsible considering the number who hang on his every word.
dmigtysolomon ...you may have a point on that.
Because a true religious person whatever his religion (Muslim, Christian, Jews) know how to respect others.
What are you on about greg? How many of the people who've commented do you think are Muslims?
And I can't see any reason why the mods would block this thread. Please explain???
The pope said using condoms increases aids. That is wrong and spreads the wrong message. What he meant to say is that more people are having pre-marital sex now so aids is more prevalent. But what he said is very misleading.
dmigty - I wasn't talking about right or wrong. My point is that if people are going to go round having sex with multiple partners anyway then it's better they use condoms.
And as previous posters have said, there's also the issue of stopping AIDs being passed on to children.
known to be non-religious people of QL (and not what you are implying__Muslims, right?)
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
then use it as much as you can...nobody is preventing you...even the pope..he is just saying abstinence -refrain from having sex unless to your spouse, because it's not safe.
Modern Age = with condoms = with AIDS
Old Age = without Condoms = without AIDS
More than preventing people from having infected with AIDS, the Pope would like to stress-out the morality.
doesn't mean it's right, right?
"The next best thing is for ALL to use condoms", is that an advice or an instruction?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
doesn't mean it's right, right?
"The next best thing is for ALL to use condoms", is that an advice or an instruction?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
the proper use of condom has to be emphasised, cause people are gonna anyway indulge in intercourses come what may...
Effective measure has to be taken inorder to facilitate its [condoms] proper use so as to prevent STD's.
As the Pope says, a christian can never remain silent in the face of evils. Folks, about condoms, its literal only that it cannot eradicate AIDS but just one of the prevention, safe sex as we termed it, but,catholic church is for sexual abstinence!
gregbais
First off, this has nothing to do with Qatar being a Muslim country!
The fact is, like it or not, pre-marital sex happens and is a part of most societies in this day and age. Asking people to abstain is unlikely to have much affect. Hence the next best thing is for everyone to use condoms. This is what the pope needs to realise.
.. :( .....no comments!!...........
I believe so...because if condoms are 1 size and cocks are not, so leakage is very probable:)
"simple yet complicated"
"makamal a anak"
will you people stop "Condom-ing" the Pope :p
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
well i agree pope said using condoms won't solve AIDS.....but at the same time he dint say to stop using them either......what he actually said to the people of africa was to stop screwing left,right and centre.
Im sure the pope dosen't speak english very well or may be one of the translators made a mistake.
Aana free, jaana free,
Pakde gaye tho khana free.
but intentional mistakes even in human standard is unacceptable.
We need to think deeper on the message being converge by the Catholic hierarchy regarding contraceptives specifically condoms.actually, its really "procreation" for them. Their "presumed" strength is by numbers and precisely why they don't like these contraceptives.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Depends on whether I am involved or not;)
(although that is the stand of the Catholic church itself). Of course how many Catholics listen to their leader now?
For me, personally, condom (and other contraceptives) should be use for its purpose of preventing unwanted pregnancies ON LEGAL PARTNERS OR SPOUSE ONLY. Anything beyond this is also not condone in our church!
Let me asked married couples, are you okay if your spouse do it with other as long as they use "protection"?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Whole world is spending trillions to spread the awareness and make people use the Latex to prevent STDs. Look at this old dumb.
______________________________________________
Listen to Many..Speak to a few.
Well, he's actually right in a sense....the only thing that will "Cure" AIDS is a medical cure for Aids.
But, condom use by a large portion of the population would significantly reduce the amount of those infected...Logic, why dost thou forsake them...
maybe this is a conspiracy to reduce population.
i think the pope just went wrong on his speach... its a mixed view of everything. anyways, use condoms, CUT down the possibility, be smart, and get educated on condoms, sex... etc!
and might as well enroll the pope in this educational training!
I have always questioned the Catholic Church attitude towards candoms. Abstinence is the ideal scenario but it is in the core of christianity itself to admit that there is no ideal human behavior, that "sin" does exist, otherwise why would God forgive us, if we are to always act ideally?
In other words .. mistakes (sins) happen...
Funny enough, Christianity give us protective spiritual and behavioral "tools" to shield ourselves against spiritual sins... so the concept is there..
In the case of HIV, does this mean that a human being has to pay his life and most probably the life of his spouse and future kids and God knows who else for the commitment of one mistake??????? God and christianity is way more merciful than that..!
Yes, they should promote abstinence as the ideal scenario... (exactly as Christianity promotes to seek for a sinless life) yet educate, push for the use of candoms, and generate awareness. I mean if I am the mother of a teenager living in Africa, I wouldn't do anyless, why would the Pope?
Time will come when the Catholic Church will realize that this is a big mistake...
Fyi, they don't approve the use of candom even in wedlock ...
there is actually pork in carefour
"They are all too busy fiddling with little boys to see whats going on in the real world."
Haha, damn straight.
People start preaching Abstinence that the song "Throw yourself away" pops into my head.
"Baby's born on a bathroom floor
Her mother prays that it'll never cry
But nothing's wrong you've got you prom dress on
When they ask you'll say "it isn't mind"
You know they're gonna know you lied
Why the hell don't you throw yourself away
You know they're gonna burn it down
Wash my hands of this
You notice how God ain't even helpin’ you out
Wash m' hands of this
You notice how God ain't even helping you out
Why the hell don't you throw yourself away
You know they're gonna burn it down"
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died....Chad Kroeger
They are all too busy fiddling with little boys to see whats going on in the real world.
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
And preaching abstinence, which as you say yourself isn't realistic, isn't dangerous? Saying condoms INCREASE the problem isn't dangerous?
Mis-education is dangerous, which is why we should be pushing for more condoms, more education and more awareness.
"unwanted pregnancies".
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Miss X said what was its main purpose, to prevent babies born with HIV virus. The Pope is right when he said that condom is not the solution. Maybe he is not realistic but he is idealistic. As everyone will agree, the first notion before regarding condom (and other contraceptives) was it is promoting sexual promiscuity and it is. Why, you think everyone is responsible enough to follow the rules of "condom"?
I am not defending the pope because me myself is not a Catholic. But from the point of view of religion, for this one, I may agree with him! It is just like saying, don't put your faith in this rubber thing! Education is the key, but mis-education is rather dangerous.
Are you all hard on this rubber thing?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
LoL Arien....
As he is old so he want others not to enjoy and hav fun which he didn't had in his whole life ....:)
I think arecel summed it up really, although he only needed to use one word. irresponsible
So that is his belief, fine. The thing about it is, he is responsable for millions of people who hang on his every word. It is irresponsible for him to say something like that. Where does he go next? say that it is OK to kill the Saracen's? He's is the leader of a huge religion. Gone are the days were the pope could do what ever he liked. It is his responsability to continue with the times. If he the catholic church can modernize and remove the payment of Privelages because one monk challenged them, then surely he can say. "Ok rubbers are fine" He only says crap like this because he think he will be encouraging sex out of wedlock.
tw@
____________________________
Forgetting the spread of HIV from partner to partner for a second. The Pope is ignoring the fact that a huge amount of babies are born with HIV. If those babies live until marriaging age and remain abstinent all that time, they will still spread the disease to their partners and still bear infected children once they have gotten married.
Condoms are the only thing that will stop babies being born with HIV because it will reduce the amount of pregnancies.
dmigty - I realise his point is that abstinence is the best form of prevention, but that is highly unrealistic. He also goes on to say that condoms actually INCREASE the problem, which is totally irresponsible.
And if pigs could fly dmighty, we'd have pork in Qatar.
"Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans," said Hodes, head of policy, communication and research for the group."
Exactly.
In the popes eyes. His way of life > Africans life.
if only all people could stay with one partner, the need for condom is just to prevent conception!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Condoms rule...
You can't teach experience...
You should be wearing one, since you was a notorious prick this morning.
LOL
Don't get hyper, I'm just joking with you...
If God dropped acid, would he see people? -- George Carlin
I'm sure he's used a few...tried them out on his altar boys no doubt.....
I don't think the problem is engaging in UNWANTED sex dmighty, it's engaging in WANTED sex.
And I agree with Red Pope, the answer is condoms and proper sex education. Preaching abstinence is the reason 22 million people have AIDS.
Not only condoms could save lives, but a strong sexual education should be enforce and implemented as a sledge hammer to counter and knock the barriers of social Aids TABOO and cultural divide among all the African tribes. When it comes to AIDS Awareness.
If God dropped acid, would he see people? -- George Carlin
I doubt he ever used one???
You can't teach experience...
Obama seems inclined to reverse the Bush administration’s policy of giving financial aid only to organisations promoting abstinence and fidelity.
Maybe it was a "typo" error in his speech. Maybe tht "DONOT USE" was a mistake and he cudnt take the sentence back after he'd told it. DUH!!
said, STOP using it. He said that preference is to abstinence and not engaging in unwanted sex!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
What a load of Bollocks , when is the Catholic Church going to Pull its head of of the sand!
Without imagination their is nothing!
Um the International Community, the World Health Organization, ALL OTHER RELIGIONS!
Actually the condom does both, prevent disease and pregnancy when used properly they actually work! The problem being is one has to be educated to some extent to be able to use them properly!
the Vatican and it's pontiff have lost the plot, just recently they sacked what they deemed a rogue priest in QLD due to what they deemed his unethical practices, but what they failed to see was in a community that needed someone he was there and he had a congregation of over 600 strong followers. Now correct me if I am wrong but in a time when the christian faith is saying it's numbers are down and people aren't going too church, wouldn't they have been better of looking at what the priest was doing to encourage so many people too turn up to Sunday mass?
Sorry I know it's a bit off topic but The saying "there is no Bad PR" would defiantly not apply to any religion and the more stories that come out that show just how much religions are loosing touch with the real world the fewer and fewer followers they will have....
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died....Chad Kroeger
dms, condoms do prevent transmission of hivs, although not 100%. the Pope's statement here is quite irresponsible considering that he is in Africa where millions have died and miilions had been orphaned because of aids. on another note, the Pope is the leader of the catholic church, he is our moral compass. having said that, he presents an option to what media and popular culture feeds to us. for that, he is doing his job.
mo lang!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
dmigty - I'm sure you're of the opinion that trying to stop people contracting HIV is a good thing. And it's a proven fact that using condoms is highly effective in preventing HIV contraction. So for someone as influential as the pope to come out and contradict this is outright foolishness. Do you not agree?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
what I am saying, condom was not made as preventing spread of disease but it may serve its purpose!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
My views save lives dmighty, his views kill people. Big difference.
NO dmighty they are effective for the prevention of STDS
http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm
http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/CondomsAndAIDS.htm
Just google it.
in his ways to lead his church. Just like you and the others, a lot of your views and opinions are also non-acceptable to "believers", right?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
dmigtysolomon, are you saying that condoms DO NOT prevent transmission of STI's/AIDS?????
dmigty - have you seen the statistics for the effectiveness of condoms at preventing HIV?
what respect an old celibate fool talking about condoms??! Blahhh, he's a bloody joke!
not to prevent transmittal of STD or HIV virus.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
dmighty, why should I give this guy respect?? He's single handedly signed the death certificates for thousands if not millions of people! He doesn't deserve respect!
"A Christian can never be silent."
Well, people are screaming for help from the violence, poverty, hunger and aids!
They need to grow some Rubber trees stat!
that is, if you want respect also!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Great Brit. After this he and W. Bush can hold hands, sing Koombaiya and watch millions of people die of AIDS.
In the current climate, "The saving message of the Gospel needs to be proclaimed loud and clear so that the light of Christ can shine into the darkness of people's lives,"
Bloody senile old fool! What the hell would he know!
The Pope is getting his knowledge from the other super popular book of the dark ages.......
If God dropped acid, would he see people? -- George Carlin
I wonder if he has any concept of the kind of danger he's just put millions of people in.
The Pope is living in the dark ages. He needs to step out of "ideal" frame of mind and get a clue!!!
Took the words right out of my mouth Tallg.
What a cock.