GULF TIMES has a sense of humour

=)

...A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

I though it was "bring your sister to work day" or something. It's a good way of keeping the unemployment rate low I guess.

This is a high availability setup with full backup facility..

Why does it often appear that there are two Qatari women doing the same job? I've been to several places where one woman deals with the customer while the other sits there doing or nails or playing with her phone. I've never understood it.

LOL. I;m sure you can guess. :)

I want a job like that.. PM me the name of the bank at once , if not sooner..

My father is currently at his wits end, not because he's wasting his time teaching people who don't want to suceed, but quite the opposite. He has taught many brilliant, hard worker and driven Qatari women who unfortunately end up being part of the Qatarization "Quotas" for some of these companies and are wasting away in jobs where they do nothing. He says he had two really promising students who are now working for one of the larger Qatar banks who sit around and play video games in their office all day because their employer won't give them any duties, no matter how much they ask. They're just there to meet the quota set by the state.

So there's a lot of downsides to Qatarization.

In a small nation of a few hundred thousand locals with a huge economic plan it is not possible for Qatar to be independent of outside help. That will never happen.

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It is sad to see so many young Qatari nationals not interested in improving themselves. Majority of them have it so easy! All they need to do is make an effort at studying, sweat out a decent GPA, accept an entry level job that doesn't necessarily pay very much (but could do), spend a few years trying, get some experience in the industry of their choice, and then they will be almost guaranteed a great job for life, and respect. There are so many people in other countries in the world who would do anything to have a chance like that. Yet these people throw it away. The amount of "Islamic Studies" graduates among the GCC nationals is so high, yet how can they possibly apply it? Not all of them want to teach. Also, a Qatari national degree holder, say, in management, wants to be a manager from get go! How can they become managers without any working experience is beyond me, yet this is what they want. They would rather do nothing than accept a job that is anything less than that. Really, really sad to watch.

Yet there are plenty Qatari people who try hard, build their lives, and do not depend on cultural charity for their next meal. All praise to them, and I am sure we will see many more of those. I believe it will simply not be cool to do nothing and spend your days in the malls or driving in the streets for much longer. World is moving on, and Qatari nationals will have no choice but to move with it, or be left behind.

Aahh.. thanks, ngourlay

/Edit - we have read this before and discussed this somewhere on QL already, haven't we?

So, Al-Watan criticised the idea of Qatarisation? What's the gist of the complaints and does most of Qatar support what the govt is doing for them or preferring to dig in their heels and be quite contrary?

I'm guessing that the educated ones support the idea as they can see the bigger picture. But the youngsters do not, because they are so used to have everything on a silver platter.. make that gold platter... that they don't want to work?

But well, GENERALLY that's how a family is raised - Parents lay down general rules (subject to exceptions at their wise discretion) when the kids are not yet matured, kids rebel but eventually follow, when they grow up, they realize that their parents were right after all (not in every detail but with the big picture) in their guidance by God's grace, in the way forward to improve their lives.

By analogy, that is also how a nation is raised - from current status to improved status.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Genesis (or anyone else) - where can we get the GT 27-01 article?

gloopygladys said "...IF the locals were capable and eager to 'do' the work that is needed in Qatar, they would be doing it. None of us would have jobs. We would be out of here. "

Some of them are capable and eager to do the work that's needed here but many of them are not there YET. These things don't happen overnight or even within a short time but at least they are aware of the need to be educated, the oil and gas money won't last forever, etc. etc. Awareness is the first step to change for the better. They had started a few years ago on this Qatarization idea, I believe. They are pressing on with it. It's always very difficult to make improvements but little by little, with concerted effort, things WILL change for the better.

To everyone else - my comment is that they need to get their house in order and not be dependent on outside assistance. Being friends with outsiders is great, to continue learning and growing from other perspectives but at the end of the day, rely only on God and yourself. "Yourself" can be an individual, a team, a company,a nation.

By the way, criticism is fine. Take it constructively. Assess it unemotionally to see if there's any merit in the criticism. If there is none, then ignore it, like water off a duck's back. If there is merit in the criticism, then work on making a change for the better. That can be quick or slow, depending on one's own peculiar circumstances. If other people want to judge, does it matter? No one else lives our lives but us.

Another thing about criticism - when one steps back and assesses things objectively, one might see the other motivating factors driving the person criticizing - most times, it's envy or jealousy at what other people have, hurt leading to bias and skewered perceptions, etc.etc.

/And no, I don't have blinkers on. I am aware of the negative actions of some Qataris. This morning,one Qatari lady was queue jumping in her big 4WD.

//And btw, the criticisms leveled at Qatar eg. relying on cheap labour, etc is true of all developing nations. Those from developed nations see things differently because of non-exposure to the other perspective.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

More outraged Qatari letters to ALWATAN editor

http://www.al-watan.com/data/20090204/pdf/local.pdf (page 11)

I have seen the same occur 9in Saudi. There are two aspects to this.

Firstly, the "local" population is growing, extended families can no longer support the costs and unemployment is rising. Locals need to work.

Expats need to "transition out" and accept that their jobs here are not lifelong.

Yes, training is required for the locals. However, this can be done "on the job" with clear objectives. My company in Saudi laid out clear guidelines and processes, so that the expat trained the local to fill his position within a certain timeframe. Both parties were aware of the commitment and had to buy in.

Lastly, yes, at present there are many jobs the locals feel are beneath them. However, economic situiation and needs are powerful drivers. Five years ago, a Saudi would not have contemplated "lower level jobs". Now they are working as security guards, drivers, secretaries etc.

Interesting graph you posted earlier ngourlay -

I didn't realise Qatar was quite that bad. What are they doing wrong? And what are Korea doing so right?

you know what's really funny. Most don't even know what was the content of the article! And that the writer have just pasted the conclusion of study conducted by the ministry of labour ‘s institute of administrative development

The article from December that caused all the fuss is here.

I agree with you, but one day, just like the ret of us, they will have to! Maybe not this generation but it will happen.

Agree MHL, pathetic attitude of 'it's my country, I'll always have a job'. And it's now untrue unless they are willing to take some deadbeat no prospects low salary job. That is happening more and more. And it's a good thing if it will shake some of them up.

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"Don’t even try to convince me that the expatriates are far more qualified, because most of them are not. Just because an expat worked at a fast-food chain his teenage years does not qualify him/her to manage a high-end restaurant chain."

Qatarization will never see any Qatari work in a "fast food chain" or "high -end restaurant". Teenage Expat's have to take such jobs to pay for Further Education or too make ends meet. The difference is Qatar offers its Education and support to its teenagers,for free. ( The World really is your Oyster), but a lot choose to ignore it. Deny it all you like, but I hear it constantly at work. "This is my Country, I will always have a Job". Perhaps, but if you leave school at 11 and you have no ambition to improve, you better hope it lasts.

On the plus side I work with some well educated, ambitious, Qatari's, who are an example to many.

Hard to say whats in store, but good luck.

Anyone got a link to the 27th Dec Article in question?

Cant find it with the GT's useless achive system - or maybe it's my useless search skills.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Fubar, thanks for inserting the word 'sometimes'. Wonderful to know you're not generalising :)

It is worth mentioning that the point of education is not only to get a job. Exposure to academia and tertiary education is very worthwhile and I have yet to meet a fellow Qatari who thinks otherwise.

In my line of work I employ many people, a fair percentage of them Qatari. I employ on merit and have had no instances of any employee being lazy etc. If they were, they would be out on their ear.

We come in all shapes and sizes with all different work ethics as does everyone else.

Agree that there is much wrong with the Qatarisation process. The idea is wonderful, the implementation is flawed.

Gloopyg, you do disappoint. Were you here 40 years ago to know who lived in tents? LOL

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Well there are plenty more angry qatari females on the road..when I see one behind my car flashing their headlights I just give way..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

IF the locals were capable and eager to 'do' the work that is needed in Qatar, they would be doing it. None of us would have jobs. We would be out of here. However, first of all they rely very much on cheap labour to carry on with extensive building work and road works etc. Yes, there may be other Arab nationalities that carry out manual work etc but on the whole very FEW LOCAL, do nor would want to do this work.

All of us that work here are filling a gap in a very BIG market. Lets look at it, 40 years ago, these people were living in tents (well most of them), girls were not allowed an education and those that could afford to send their children away to be educated did so knowing full well, that even if that child/young adult, was not exactly the brightest, it did not matter, they had a job anyway.

These people don't need to work. Some may WANT to work, but really they have no need. It is the richest county in the world. Culturally they all help each other finicially. The incentive is simply not there at the moment.

I think there are probably lots of locals that would love to work but as yet culturally they cannot do it or they are not allowed to follow their chosen career. It seems to me the only jobs they want are the top ones and they can AFFORD, to be the top dog! Nothing at all do with level of education at all.

It will happen when the culture is right! As we say in the UK; why have a dog and bark yourself!

She might have not read it , as she claimed. The GT 27-01 article is the talk of town for the past few days after the alwatan newspaper criticize it in his daily column .for the last 2 days, radio show"my beloved country, good morning" was discussing the article. Dozen outraged Qataris called in.

"If I was an educated Qatari, I could see why I might like Qatarization. It offers me the pick of plum jobs within Qatar, and every firm would be eager to snap up a Qatari with a brain."

Well educated Qataris already do get by quite nicely in the workplace. They do already get their choice of plum jobs because companies are eager to snap them up. Not because they are compelled to, but because it makes good economic and social sense.

If I were an educated Qatari, I would be angry that my academic achievements would have been unnecessary. I could just as easily have slacked off at uni and gone to the movies and parties with friends and still have been offered the same job and same salary.

(Diamond - note the careful use of the word 'sometimes'.)

If I was an educated Qatari, I could see why I might like Qatarization. It would offer me the pick of plum jobs within Qatar, and every firm would be eager to snap up a Qatari with a brain.

However, it does nothing for the economy or for societal wellbeing to force companies to employ people who are under-qualified to the point of being illiterate. It reduces the nation's competitiveness and removes a major stimulus for nationals to do well at school.

Norman Tebbit once said that UK workers should "get on their bikes" if they wanted jobs. There seems to be a good argument that for a real knowledge-based economy, you need to give the workforce a reason for gaining an education. That might mean unemployment, but maybe that's not a bad thing if it spurs people to improve themselves.

me too :?

At last the veil has been lifted from your eyes.

You are the biggest idiot of them all! Not just Qatar, but world class.

:D

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

hence the title of my thread. If ever a better example were needed. Yes I know I am generalising.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Yes. We are all idiots. Every single one of us.

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I thought it was well written, sarcastic.

"If the report was worded better, or even properly researched, I would have actually read it.."

- Doubt this is to be taken literally. What she meant was probably that she skimmed through the article and it was not worth actually wasting time reading it thoroughly.

"However, accusations that we somehow have a hidden agenda against the government initiative of Qatarisation warrants a rebuttal if only for the stupidity of its premise."

- Nothing wrong with this statement either. Some people do criticize that they prefer to remain "uneducated and lazy". She's just pointing out that from her perspective, it's untrue. Good on her. Well put.

But agree with fubar about her rant about "Qataris are better than ex-pats". I haven't read what else she wrote so my tentative view of her writing is positive.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

It seems like it was the editor of the newspaper who got the last laugh by publishing a letter that indirectly highlights why Qatarisation is a bad idea.

Even literate Qataris sometimes reveal themselves to be idiots.

My point was how do you write a letter about an article she did not read, worthy or not?

Sounds like it was a response to a call to complain on mass, rather like a chain letter.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

I agree that she can express herself more clearly than some of the professional writers whose scribblings are published in the local dailies.

However, she is a card-carrying member of the 'saying it makes it true' brigade. Ranting and raving that Qataris are better than ex-pats because she says so doesn’t prove her point, but it does demonstrate a level of intellectual bankruptcy that is an embarrassment to all thinking Qataris.

Perhaps she should be directing her anger towards the country's failing educational institutions if she is concerned about the youth unemployment rate, or better yet at the parents who allow their children to skip school, or drop out altogether to spend time in shopping malls or the desert.

qatari

You're right, she shouldn't be criticised for poor grammar, but I think you're wrong when you try to explain her purpose.

The Gulf Times has been getting it in the neck for the past few days because of that article, and her letter was part of a campaign against the paper stirred up by Al Watan (sister paper to Qatar Tribune).

She's simply wrong when she makes the case for Qatarization. You can't do a clerical job if you can't read, and Qataris are unwilling to do the jobs where reading isn't required.

give her a break. the letter wasn't badly written and i suspect that all she meant was that the article isn't worth reading.

plus given the quality of writing in the local English press, her letter is top class!!!!!!

If one image could sum up the problem with Qatarization, this is it:

Click image to make it BIGGER. At a reading level below level one, the students aren't capable of reading the exam questions.

I removed the Noor remark; it was unnecessary.

She has a point, Alexa, and I do sympathise with her, to a point. But, the world isn't as simple as she makes out.

Her remark about fast food restaurants is clearly a dig at the notion that people don't want to employ fresh graduates without any experience when they can hire people who have proven themselves with past work experience. Any employer will agree that taking people straight from uni who have never worked almost always ends badly. Sadly, Qatari families that shelter their children from the reality that they should find work and support themselves are only making it harder for their children to find a decent job later in life.

However I strongly disagree in the to her suggestion that, generally speaking, Qataris are every bit as 'qualified' as, well, anyone else. As Ngourlay clearly points out, this is simply not the case.

Any sample of the Qatari population when compared to a like sample from a different population (English, Indian, Filipino, Japanese, whatever) will clearly show that general education levels amongst Qataris are low. Not just low, but very low.

Many of the local oil and gas companies can't hire the Qataris that they should in order to satisfy Qatarisation quotas, because they require Qatari graduates with a GPA of at least 3.0 in a relevant field. There aren't too many of them around, let me assure you. The companies have to chose between letting their standards drop, or sourcing manpower from elsewhere. What do you think they do?

Yeah I love my QL homies :) It's good to be back on the forums reading all this crapola.

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Oh, so cruel. Watching Noor would indeed make one angry.

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Even the Qatar Foundation's own research has indicated that despite the vast sums of money being poured into that black hole in Rayyan (aka Education City) education standards of nationals in this country are dropping.

Her poor email is riddled with gaping errors of reasoning and fact, like this one:

"If my colleagues, who graduated from prestigious universities around the world, and even from Qatar, are unqualified for the jobs available in the market, then who is?"

Is she saying that having *any* sort of qualification from a prestigious university automatically makes you qualified for every job? All the Qatari Interior Design graduates pouring out of VCU are qualified to work as doctors, economists, teachers...

Someone should explain to her that a degree doesn't make you immediately employable.

The 2006 PISA report by OECD showed that over half Qatari school leavers couldn't read, write or add up. The only country that scored worse was Turkmenistan Kyrgyzstan, where much of the population live in yurts.

The Gulf Times is just reporting what everyone knows. There are very few high-quality Qatari applicants for jobs, which makes a mockery of the Qatarization program.

Here's a summary by Qatar's Supreme Education Council of the 2006 PISA results.

http://www.english.education.gov.qa/content/resources/detail/5683

[edit, wrong -stan, sorry]

Although would welcome more Qatarias on QL. I'm kinda holding the fort on my ownio here.

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Omigod, really? How so? I don't see much of myself in her writing.

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OK. I fess up. I got mad and wrote it.

P.S. I may be able to read and write but I can't add up.

Poor luvvie, let her vent.

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Luv to hear from the 'anonymous’ journalists.

come out come out...

...A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

Thougt it out of order to be honest, especially when I had the Editorial first. What is this girls point? Be interesting to see others point of view.