Is Bush the worst US President for 50 years ?
This was the proposition in a debate aired yesterday from New Yoieek.. I would vote for the motion, but WHAT SAY YOU ??????????????????
Arguing the defense was none other than the architect of the Bush presidency, former adviser Karl Rove.
Over the course of nearly two hours, Rove and his co-defendant, the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol, clawed with, argued against and often talked over Slate's Jacob Weisburg and The Guardian's Simon Jenkins -- who took up the motion in the affirmative.
The discussions were substantive, touching on topics ranging from Iraq War and detention policies to immigration reform and Republican politics. And the atmosphere was, as expected, charged, with hisses and hollers following arguments from both sides.
"I'm going to make an appeal to the open-minded people of the Upper West Side," he declared in his opening statement, to the laughter of the crowd of roughly 700 people.
As the other panelists delivered their remarks, Rove wrote furiously in his notebook. He claimed that critics of the president suffered from a "peculiar form of Bush hatred that caused people to lose their rational senses about the man..." and said the political left never gave his former boss his due because they thought the 2000 election "was illegitimate."
When the Jenkins went through a litany of Bush policy failures, Rove termed it a "drive by shooting." When Weisburg challenged the execution of the Iraq War, Rove accused him of delving in fiction and performing an outlandish flip-flop -- as if changing one's mind was some sort of unpardonable offense. And when a questioner asked about his refusal to testify in a "criminal trial," Rove addressed the man directly, said he was unaware of such a trial, and asked him to elucidate what he meant, knowing fully well that it was a reference to the congressional committee that had compelled his testimony.
Rove, for example, argued that Barack Obama's win was summarily unimpressive, as he scored just three percentage points more of the popular vote than Bush did in 2004. There was no mentioning of the Electoral College rout enjoyed by the current president-elect.
Kristol, meanwhile, offered proof of Bush's presidential decency by arguing that Obama would not be all that different once in office. "The proof is in the pudding," he said. "Obama is not going to change many of Bush's policies." An obviously narrow reading of the Obama agenda, he failed to note that the Illinois Democrat spent nearly two years campaigning against Bush himself.
Finally, Rove was pressed to explain how, if the war against terror was a signature Bush success, the United States government had failed to capture Osama Bin Laden during his eight years in office.
"Because he is hiding in a deep dark cave in a very dark corner of what is likely Pakistan," he replied. "Every effort has been made to get him, to get as his communications, his allies and subordinates. And a lot of them are dead. And we haven't heard very much from him either."
"[Bush] couldn't open his mind long enough to consider alternatives or consider the fact that he might have been wrong," Weisberg said in his closing remarks. "America's great nepotistic experiment is finally coming to an end."
Excepts from Huffinton Post..
ooopppssss... land the of the free and the home of the brave is under attack.
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call me ONE.
Obama's PLATTER is full.
he is the worst US President forever, and No.1 Terrorist, and this is not only G.Bush problem , American policy will make any president the same.
You can't teach experience...
People need to look in their own back yards! EVERYONE has blood on their hands.
It is easy to point fingers at the USA. Everyone does it and will continue to do so. It is a sad fact that comes with the territory.
to the next president wannabe's:
"be careful what you wish for."
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call me ONE.
I wish it was as simple as it seems from the outside looking in...I wouldn't wish what Obama has to deal with, on anyone. Have you ever seen all the before and after pictures of Presidents? In four years they all seem to age 20 years...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Obama has a really hard task ahead. There are great expectations. I believe that he needs to focus on rehabilitating America's image abroad, but he has too many problems internaly to begin with..
Let's wait and see..
trust me, I've been frustrated with Bush for 8 years...never DID vote for him in either election.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
tell us how you REALLY feel...
Trust me, Bush wasn't the only President to sacrifice American young men and women to battle an unpopular cause. He was just the most recent. If you look at most countries, their governments have done the same type of things. We are no different, just more visible.
I'm not taking up for Bush, but be fair in your assessment and look at both sides of every issue. No one is totally innocent in what they do and finger pointing never solved anything.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
scarlett, the expectations imposed on Obama are just reflections of the frustrations with Bush., though i agree with you, people will be impatient... and will think Obama will sort out things as if he holds the magic wand.
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call me ONE.
In addition, go tell him to move his family to Israel since he kissed their asses more than any president in living memory. Bush sacrificed American integrity, soldiers and their blood, and money all so a brutal, blood-thirsty little country in israel can stand more at ease in the middle east. The last 8 years was a perfect example of how israeli lobbies work in the USA. Sacrificing all Americans for themselves. And idiots like Bush let it happen.
I certainly hope it will...but I fear too many nationalities have put such enormous expectations on Obama and get really mad when things don't change immediately. People need to realize that governments moves slowly....and laws and rules take time to implement.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
"We are ALL, every country on this planet, INTERCONNECTED."
This is one of the biggies that Bush and his cronies just never GOT.
hotandsticky - I so agree!
and there are many, under the Bush administration, the US did not suffer another terrorist attack after 9/11.
Hopefully, under the Obama administration, the anti-Americanism sentiments will decrease. Laying off the bully tactics will lend itself to improving communications with other country leaders.
We are ALL, every country on this planet, INTERCONNECTED. The idea that the US can stand alone and do it all hopefully diminishes with the Bush administration.
This may not happen in four years...but there is HOPE that things will gradually and steadily improve.
50 years gives the imbisile too much credit. Hands down worst ever in 230 year history of the country. Was a complete disgrace, especially in that fellow Americans showed their overall stupidity in electing the chimp to a second term. Americans fell for the scare card in the 2004 election hook, line and sinker. Bush and Cheney played the American public like concert violinists. Too bad the American public was so completely inept in falling for this tactic. Finally, 8 years of stagnant half-witted crap is over.
but someday it might be one of those issues of the proverbial rock and hard spot...heaven forbid!!!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Scarlett, I don't really know anything about him, but I think brit's right. Most folks probably don't want to see another Bush in office anytime soon!
at least Jeb isn't quite like his brother.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
I would have to say yes....and the worst governor ever as we Texans had him before the entire US had him...he ruined both...
He's gotten us into so much crap that its not even funny, stifled scientific research that could save millions of lives and been so narrow/closed minded that it is sad.
I am more than happy that the 8 years is about to come to an end. Should have been just 4...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
The end of nepotism? Wasn't Bush Sr. just touting son Jeb as a future president?
Crawford texas doesn't have hills...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
saw the debate, was actually ecpecting more. (intelligence squared, right?!) i was waiting for some conspiracies to be exposed., LOL:)
i second the motion.
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call me ONE.
Yep! He's going to ride off to that Ranch up ther in them Hills...
One comment intrigued me during the debate.. "This is the end of nepotism.."
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I would agree with that.. The Bush name has been severely tainted..
He sucked rocks the whole time in office, came off as like John Wayne in some two bit western, Bamboozled his way into office for his second term. And now thank Allah, they are rid of him and his nasty ways.
I cant say he's worse.. That will make it sound as if there are others worse than him..
How about giving him the title "WORST PRESIDENT" itself..
Saw the debate. Rove was a total idiot. Bush deserves to be voted the worst.
he is the worst US President forever
I saw it on BBC last night also and it was excellent debate. I would vote for the motion also. I hope Obama administraton policies are more peaceful then Bush administration policies.
Peace.