Should you Breastfeed in Public ??
Canada is a progressive and liberal country.. So why this uproar ??
A breastfeeding brouhaha has broken out at a York Region swimming facility.
At one end of Newmarket's AquaCenter Swim School pool is Cinira Longuinho, who wants Ontario's Human Rights Tribunal to investigate why she was asked to leave the water Oct. 24 while breastfeeding her 20-month-old daughter Camilla on the pool steps.
At the other end – and drowning in a sea of blogs, emails and protests – is pregnant AquaCenter owner Ellie Karkouti. She hired four security guards, not expecting them to show up in bulletproof vests, when Longuinho and her supporters threatened a "peaceful nursing protest" last Friday.
In between are a whole bunch of people who are quietly wondering why breastfeeding still causes such a flood of emotions and how things got so out of control, right in the midst of York Region's "Anytime, Anywhere" breastfeeding campaign.
"I believe in breastfeeding, just not in the pool," says pool owner Karkouti, 39, who is 17 weeks pregnant with her first child. "I gave her two options. I said I have comfortable chairs in the change room or the viewing gallery."
According to Karkouti, while salt and chlorine reduce dangerous bacteria in a pool, the water's still "filled with stuff that you can't kill – people's pee and sweat and body stuff is in there. Am I ever going to stick my baby's mouth on a breast that's been in a pool without cleaning it (first)? Never, ever."
Longuinho, 32, was chatting with a bunch of mothers and kids during their weekly, hour-long swim session at AquaCenter when her daughter became cranky. Rather than climb out of the warm water onto the cool deck, out of range of her friends, Longuinho started nursing Camilla on the stairs, with her breasts above water.
She claims Karkouti came up to her a few minutes later and gave her one option: the change room. "I didn't know what to do," says Longuinho. "I was embarrassed. In reality, I wanted to pretend that nothing had happened."
So she spent the last few minutes swimming with her daughter, then fed her in the change room and, later, her car, where she started to realize: "What happened was wrong. I knew that, based on the law, I had the right to breastfeed in a public place."
Longuinho, who emigrated from Brazil four years ago, says English isn't her first language and blames that, in part, for what happened next.
When friends expressed outrage – and her daughter's former pediatrician stressed there should be "no qualification" on where a mother feeds her child – Longuinho urged them to join her in a "peaceful protest for breastfeeding" at the AquaCenter last Friday. She says she simply intended to feed her child in the pool. But then details of the "protest" hit breastfeeding sites and blogs – and Karkouti's email inbox. Fearing that dozens of angry lactivists might show up at her pool, Karkouti contacted York Regional Police.
When it became clear they had no intention of sending uniformed officers, she says, Karkouti hired $400 worth of her own protection – four security guards who kept the 20 or so protesters, many of them children, at bay.
"I guess that's what they come with," Karkouti said yesterday of the Kevlar-clad guards. "I didn't even notice. All I thought was, `If I have 400 people trying to force their way in, what am I supposed to do?'"
Says Longuinho: "We weren't carrying signs or anything. The idea was to go and talk to her (Karkouti) and nurse in the pool. One of the guards even had handcuffs. I believe it was to intimidate us."
Karkouti was so concerned the protest might foul the water, forcing a costly cleanup or shutdown, she refused to let the group in.
Longuinho is pondering her next move. "What happened was wrong," she says. "I want to use it as an example for other mothers that they should not be afraid of breastfeeding, even in a pool."
It's far from the first time a lactating mother has been kicked out of a pool. After a number of "breastfeeding incidents" at municipal pools (this pool is privately owned), the Breastfeeding Action Committee of Edmonton urged governments to uniformly adopt breastfeeding-friendly regulations, saying there is no evidence the practice is unsafe for babies, their mothers or others in the pool.
The Ontario Human Rights Commission says breastfeeding women can't be prohibited from feeding their babies in public, or ordered to move to areas considered more "discreet." But the Ministry of Health sets rules that ban food and drink around pools, says Karkouti, and if breastfeeding is allowed, bottles should also be allowed.
A Ministry of Health official who is aware of this incident couldn't be reached for comment.
For more on this controversy, read Ann Douglas's Mother of All Parenting Blogs on parentcentral.ca.
Toronto Star!!!!
Vegas has the right idea!
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"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out". - Richard Dawkins
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
...a screaming baby or a baby quietly eating... As for going to the toilet to breastfeed, would you like to eat your lunch in there?
we dont go to the toilets or a special room to eat when we are in public, why should babies do that, as long as its discreet, shouldnt be a problem. I do think the pool is a bit too much...
anywhere except toilets. Mothers have been practicing this for centuries. It's the instinct of one mother to feed her child whenever necessary, the place is not a big deal as long she feels the need to do so.So, this thing become an issue now? wheew!(sometimes mothers don't care what people says around, she knows well enough what she's doing. That is feeding her kid. It's the problem of those watching her I guess).
strange!
Does progressive mean how much you expose yourself to others!!
anyway women breastfeed their kids all the time in Qatar but not in the middle of the street!
at waiting rooms etc
but they cover themselves so nothing is visible.
why not hold the stick from the middle.
Breastfeed..but be decent.
Or wrap a big cloth around your body to hide your private parts while breastfeeding.That will do eh
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Heard your wife left you,
How upset you must be.
But don't fret about it...
She moved in with me.
Not an issue in this country ha ha
You can't teach experience...
You don't have to show your boobs to breastfeed in public. I have seen it done discretely in many places and it causes no problem.
Not getting shirty, it's just that I've been to quite a few places were breast feeding in public is acceptable and I can't say I've ever been SURROUNDED by breast feeding women.
I don't. That is my point. When its in public/ in a restaurant/ etc... No need to get shirty. We're all entitled to an opinion...
Surrounding you??? How many breastfeeding mothers do you hang out with??
Gypsy... I'm a heterosexual woman - and don't gawp at other womens breasts. I'm merely saying its not nice having that surrounding you when you're out and about. And I know many men and women who also feel the same...
You can't teach experience...
You can't teach experience...
Ya know, you could just not look.
of course it is natural.. but i personally find it a bit grim and wonder why mothers can't just find somewhere discreet to do it, of if they're caught on the hop, then plan better and express the milk into a bottle before you leave your house.. I really don't wanna see it, and yes - especially not in a restaurant etc. People feel they have to be all 'politically correct' about this, but i find it uncomfortable and i'm female!!
I have no problem with breastfeeding in public, I simply avert my eyes. No biggie. HOWEVER, I do have to say that feeding your baby in a public pool without cleaning your boob is gross.
He rocks !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
It all comes down to publicity nothing more. I remember a few years back (1996-997) while in Toronto, a group of women had a legal fight for years with the Ontario government to allow women to go topless in public. Their argument was since men could walk on the streets without shirts on. And they can swim topless, they attend sporting events topless then women should have the same right.
Anyway, after years of discussions in the court, media and public a law was passed to allow women to go topless. Lots of men at that time applauded the decision since they don't have to go to strip clubs anymore to see some half naked women. But guess how many incidents of topless women walking on the streets or in sporting events or or or.... 2 cases the day the law was passed one of them was a landlord in a small building picked up the rent topless and the other a group of stripers sat outside a strip club topless and that does not count since they hardly ever have a cloth on.
The point is, ask all those women who defend breastfeeding in public how many of them will actually do it.???
Finally, in one episode of "Married with Children" a group of women protest against Al Bundy(one of my heroes) for not allowing a woman to breastfeed in his store. They said breastfeeding is natural and he replied so is peeing but you don't see me doing it in public.
Now I don't agree with the comparison but there are lots of things that are consider it natural but cannot be done in public.
As most suggested a child should be fed when hungry but put a scarf or something to cover it.
As for the men, I think they are against it out of jealousy. Because, they would love to see a woman barring it all but they prefer to be at the end of it not a small child.
I don't agree with breastfeeding in public. Ok, that it's natural, but so is sex or toilet, but nobody does it in public. (At least normal people don't do it.) But on the other hand babies need to be feeded, that's why shopping malls, restaurants etc. should have a small separate room where a mother can feed her child.
It's true that had working hadn't killed anyone yet, but why to take risk?
My suggestion: You may breastfeed in public without any problems, just put on Abaya and everything will be covered.
Yes brest feeding is natural, yes women have been doing it for years, however it should be done with modesty. Why should the rest of us be subjected to her personal habits?
For the same reason people don't have sex in the middle of public women shouldn't brestfeed in public.
Modesty matters.
As long as people cover themselves with a baby blanket I think its reasonable to breastfeed in public. Life is to hectic to have to look for a discreet place to hide and lose valuable time.
Appreciate that more than hygiene and sanitation for child health.
It is the prime duty for any civilized society to adhere to the public and pool etiquette always.
Scarlett, I'm sure this is an indoor pool so sun wouldn't be a factor. You don't see many outdoor pools in the north...
This mother was lazy, not wanting to go out of the pool. I always found a quiet spot when feeding my kids. I was amazed at how many places (restaurants, malls, etc.) in the US have "women's lounges" at the entrance of their restrooms which are quite comfortable for this sort of thing.
not a thing you do at a pool 4 sure...
as a young boy in australia years ago, i had the opportunity to lifeguard at different pools, and i have seen firsthand how kids react to cold or warm water.. as gross as it may seem, the truth is that kids always urinate in pools, especially btwn ages of 3 and 6, so this act by this mum is a very irresponsible act. her baby would have taken in a lot of germs for sure...
the problem here is that she did not do it discreetly, putting a cloth over your shoulder is one way,.. and of course, she did not clean her breast first, who knows how many germs she picked up from the pool,.. she did not even bother cleaning before putting it in baby's mouth...
I am always excited to go to sleep! In anticipation of the new experience I will find awaiting me.
Kenyaqueen, hehe, well i will save my comment about that one... i mean im sure all the men feel the way i feel about that one, if you know what im talking about ...
like everyone else breast feeding in public is ok if done in good manner. For goodness sake mothers there is really no need for a woman to bring her whole tit out of a shirt to feed a baby. If you can afford to have a baby you should be able to afford a bra with a tear away on it or put the blanket over your shoulders. On the other hand, when not pulling a tit out while someone is chowing down, I don't know why people feel seeing a woman breast feeding is offensive, do we get offended when when women are walking around with their tits/azzes hanging out or when your sucking on them? lol... the latter was the men
I am always excited to go to sleep! In anticipation of the new experience I will find awaiting me.
being liberal is one thing, but breast feeding is a private family matter between mother and child and not for public viewing I feel it calls for discression even in cafes etc.
Practically, women should not have a problem feeding her child anywhere but public would definitely mind. Being this has happened in Europe, they know better how to manage such social / cultural issues.
Fed my daughter till she was two everywhere from tea-shops to tavernas and no-one ever noticed or complained, its easy to be discreet. However swimming pools, no, far too dirty.
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"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out". - Richard Dawkins
i saw it here in villagio . a lady sitting at starbucks, but she had a scarf over the baby feeding..i was surprised actually, because i didnt know that it was accepted here in qatar..
I have seen the same in Asian countries.. Women breastfeed discreetly whilst continuing their work etc.
This woman was trying to make a statement, but IMHO chose th wrong place..
breastfeeding in public should be fine if the mother has the decency to do it discreetly. Put a thin cloth over your shoulder and no one will probably ever notice. Can't say as I agree with feeding in the pool as the germs are pretty prevalent, plus babies shouldn't be exposed to that much sun in the first place. Their skin is too delicate.
As far as being sent to feed elsewhere...changing room???? I think not as its much more a breeding ground for germs than the pool ever thought of being. At least the pool has the protection of Chlorine...changing rooms are horrible about breeding fungus and bacteria because its a closed, humid, warm environment.
Many places make mothers breast feed in the public toilet...yeeech!!! How sanitary is that...wouldn't it be much more acceptable to allow mothers to feed quietly and discreetly in public?
I applaud this woman for fighting for her rights, however it was a bit of overkill...as was the pool owners reaction...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
brit and jag... i have seen before how some ladies do it. it is just not a nice view. sure, u can do it "tastefully" and nobody wld be bothered.
but i really think they shld prepare proper places where the lady can take her child and feed it.
besides, we have all sort of "equipment" to suck milk and put it in a bottle for such occasions when we go out with our baby.
i have witnessed once a lady breastfeeding in public and she did it in a way that made ppl around her leave their plates.
If you're looking for a problem, you're probably gonna find one.
I wont be surprised when people after sometime argue "pissing" on the street is prohibited or should be allowed !
I don't have a problem with breastfeeding in public, but I think doing it actually in the swimming pool is taking things too far, regardless of whether it's safe or not.
that is so wrong. how can you breastfeed a baby in a pool environment.. Gross...im not worried about her exposing her @#%?" in public,thats her problem, but exposing the poor child to all the elements in a swimming pool.all the chemicals and stuff....yuck..
If you are eating in a restaraunt or in public, why can't the kid, how frustrated did you get over Ramadan when you could only eat and drink in Private?
If the lady is "discreet", then what difference does it make where she breastfeeds?
as much as i am pro-family person and everything that comes naturally, i think that it is not a nice thing to watch...
i really don't want to see some woman breastfeeding, e.g. in a restaurant, while am having my lunch.
there should be a special place for them.
mother-child thing is truly amazing, but... everything in its place.
If you're looking for a problem, you're probably gonna find one.
"But the Ministry of Health sets rules that ban food and drink around pools, says Karkouti, and if breastfeeding is allowed, bottles should also be allowed."
Brings a new meaning to a D-CUP!
I support breastfeeding in public. I just wish the little ones would SHARE!!!
Never forget the things that really do matter...