First Canadian Honour Killing

http://yadiin.blogspot.com/

honor killings are disgusting pagan practices - though many tries to sell it as "islam" .it remains a disgusting sin and contradicts the quran totally .

But a majority of Canadians that have been polled, that have been publishing arcticles and stories about our deployment in Afghanistan, not to mention the ones we all know and talk to on a regular basis, are for the withdrwal of troops. And for Harper to say (a few months back) that he is so commited to staying in Afghanistan, that he believes he should do it even if it means losing the next election, is a clear indication that he KNOWS most Canadians are against it.

Canadian mdeia is not immune from personal bias, and Gypsy and I were talking about how we each felt certain agencies to lean to one side of the conflict or another (in another thread...sorry I don't remeber which one exactly).

Yes Canada, under Harper (a US puppet) was reluctant to condem the Israely aggression against Lebanon, which is why so many took to the streets in protest...and having participated in so many as a student in Canada (back when I was in University), let me tell you how shocking and immensly satisfying it was to see Canadians of non-Arab origins participating!

Canada DOES send aid to Lebanon, but specifically NOT to Hezbollah because it deems it a terrorist organization. This classification has been as is till contested by many Canadians (myself included).

Lastly, with regards to Canadian University policies, I obviously cannot speak about all of them because I did not attend them all. I CAN however speak about mine, and what Gypsy said was true....its not done often, but the charter DOES permit you to take break and holidays to observe religious commitments!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Knox, I'm not aware of any colleges that will not recognize religious holidays, can you please let me know which ones?

CG, I will happily admit that my spelling is attrocious, so is the spelling of most people on this site, not sure why it bothers you.

As for statistics, when I was home this summer pulling the troops out of Afghanistan was a huge point on the poltical agenda of the Conservative party and the majority of Canadians want the troops out. Where am I wrong in that?

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

..... Gypsy said "And 98% of Canadians want their troops out of Afghanistan too, and pulling them out has been on the political agenda for months because so many are being killed."

Oh my, Gypsy, how disappointed 98% of Canadians might be if they knew you were speaking on their behalf.

Please remember, primary students can google and surf the web for impressive (and often inaccurate) statistics and current events. If you hope to start convincing an informed audience, I would suggest you start by taking a basic spelling course, followed by an intro to logic, and take it from there ...

Your posts are entertaining, but extremely inconsistent, presumptive, self-serving, and misleading. You remind me of President Hugo Chavez and President Georges Bush (Jr) ... I always feel entertained, yet slightly embarassed, whenever I hear them deliver another "speech from the heart". Like their PR people, I always hope you'll get it right, and sometimes you're almost there ... but then it's lunchbox letdown all over again :-(

'Canada will not knowingly support a terrorist organization, which is what Hezbollah is recognized as internationally'

gypsy dis exactly freedom of speech wher ppl allowd 2 showin der stupidity as pm say

ppl aslo shud b freedom of speech 2 deny 6milion killings wich all false

da only terroris in da world is izrael & anybdy resist izrael like hizbullah is brave honor men....kill army 4 army, civileans 4 civileans no problem...when dey take yr land u happy to die defending da land. Dey called 'terroris' by usa iz honor 4 dem.

anybdy take da side wid izrael iz stupd human

Also ALL UNiversities in Canada allow their students to take their religious days off, and allowances must be made by proffessors for them. Classes must even pause for prayer breaks for Muslims during the day. (Even in the middle of Exams).

That is seriously not true.

Gypsy, no need to apologise for me getting involved with you and Frog, that was my decision and anything that came out of that was down to me.

You as all others here on Ql have never insulted me, everybody has there own opinion about everybody else, what we write gives people their opinion about us. So any opinion about me was formed from what I wrote and the way I wrote it, so again no need to aopolgise but anyway I thank you for the gracious apology which I treat with respected.

As for passive agressive...........well used to be very agressive years ago but found out that that didnt get me to my goals I had, especially in debate, dont write that way deliberately but maybe sub consciously, will think about it.

You really do have alot to say on very important things especially womens rights and the fight against female oppression, which is also one of my pet topics and crusades......we need every voice in the world but they need to be heard and listened to....make sure yours is not just heard its listened to and not ignored as just Gyspy going on again.

For me hearing is done by the ears, Listening is done by the brain.....be listened to

Happy Day

Those are all factual points Knox. However, just to spread a little light on the subject, the Jewish community in Canada is older then many of the other religious communities in Canada, and it has been fighting for their religious rights longer. If you look at the statistics for African Americans and Natives, they have many more rights then other nationalities because they have been more vocal longer.

In many Golf clubs, Yacht clubs etc in Canada Jews and blacks were banned until the mid 1980's from entering.

Also ALL UNiversities in Canada allow their students to take their religious days off, and allowances must be made by proffessors for them. Classes must even pause for prayer breaks for Muslims during the day. (Even in the middle of Exams).

Canada would never vote anyone in with a knowingly anti-Arabic agenda either, much less an anti-semetic.

Canada sent ships and supplies to Beiruit to collect Canadian citizens and their families and the supplies went to non-Hezbollah affiliated aid organizations. Canada will not knowingly support a terrorist organization, which is what Hezbollah is recognized as internationally.

Also there are always lots of protests on behalf of Palestinians and Lebanese and a lot of organizations in Canada do send aid to both.

Stephen Harper supported Israel because he's a conservative, therefore an idiot.

And 98% of Canadians want their troops out of Afghanistan too, and pulling them out has been on the political agenda for months because so many are being killed.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

York University practices the Jewish Religious days as holidays. There is no off day for other religions celebrations

An Anti-semitic university professor had his visa revoked and sent to Germany to be put on trial.

Stephen Harper's support for israel during the israel-lebanon war was open and he approved of the bombing on lebanon.

More than 80% of the high school students in canada have used drugs.

Michael Ignatieff lost the party race when he criticized israel for the salughter in Qana and Stephane Dion won. and Ignatieff had to go to Israel to apologize.

During the israel-Lebanon war there was a campaign to collect funds for Israel whereas collecting funds for Hezbollah resulted in being braned a terrorist.

Jewish Centres are all over in Canada all thanks to the funding by the Government.

I still wanna see if any anti-semitic politican can win in the West. The Western media has portrayed to the people that Most of the muslims are terrorists who want to kill us for our peaceful beliefs. Canada's main newspapers like star, national hardly publish anything about the atrocities committed against the Muslims. Give me a break if the media poisoned people dont think of Muslims as terrorists.

Even Canada's television channels deliberately ignored the destruction by israel of lebanon especially CTV.

The only person who was outspoken and for whom I have very high regards was Noam Chomsky.

(Trying to cut down page use so thats why the short hand)

I had to prove to people why israel is also a terrorist state involved in the massacre of muslims. The indoctrination has been going on in the West as well specially against the palestinians.

(The Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan are called Red Dogs by the Afghanis. Its a pity that Canada is spending more than 95% of the Afghanistan rehabilitation budget for war purposes and claims its soldiers are there to help the Afghanis. I believe in case of a referendum even today 98% of the afghanis would want the forces to be out of Afghanistan.

You've come into this forum at a bad time Black Prince, when I am having a rather heated disagreement with another member, that unfortunatly you have found yourself wrapped up in, for that I apologize, my argument is with Frog and no one else. I will admit that I have found many of your posts the last few weeks to be rather passive aggressive, and I admittdely do not respond well to passive aggressivness (or even perceived passive aggresiveness). I apologize profusely for anything I said to you which has been insulting or demeaning over the last couple of weeks. I generally don't like resorting to personal attacks, and only do so when I feel unfairly attacked (like most human beings). It's my sincere hope that we could start off with a clean slate.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy...........one thing I must at least change on my opinion of you it that it is possible to have a strong one to one personal disagreement with you without you insulting someone.........in that I was wrong about you.......what you wrote about me I do not classfy as an insult rather your strong opinion.

One learns as one communicates and as every day goes by.

That's not what I meant at all. I agree completely with you on that point Black Prince, guilt over the holocaust is why holocuast deniers are jailed in Germany and Austria, I never denied that it wasn't a reason, I simply suggested another previous to your post. My saying I know was meant as an agreement and not as an attack. But you'll believe of me what you will.

Have a good weekend.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, nice try but as you are fully aware thats not true........to be honest one could say, that knowing the way you write ( deliberately) you phrase meant "I know.....dont tell me you idiot" that game works both ways............if nothing else one can always agree on one thing "we agreed to disagree"

You are an extremely clever writer of posts and replies, you have the ability to write things in a way that is not openely agressive but the sentence structure and words are such that you intimidate others, wait for the reply and possible insult and then cry Attack......and of course the resulting discussion ends up with you showing everybody as fanatics and idiots..........interesting strategy and with the number of non-native speakers a sure winner, at least for you, not sure for QL in general but thats Qataris deal not mine.

Have a nice day

Good afternoon Renee, any plans for the weekend? And yes you have mentioned how much you like my avatar before. Thanks.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Black Prince saying "I know" is also a way of acknowledging that you are correct. But when I read what I wrote the way you must of read it, then you are correct, I did come off sounding like a know it all. So I'm sorry, that's not how I intended to write it. I mean to say"Yes, I know that's the reason they do it, you are correct."

However, saying "sorry...but you don't know anything" is still saying you don't know anything, just putting sorry in front, and it's still rude and condescending.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Finally Qlers are seeing the light when if comes to Gypsy. Everything you said is true blackprince-- dont waste your precious time on Gypsy; she is to immature and childish to ever admit she is wrong. Thats what adults do

Did I mention how that hideous avator suits you Gypsy? --

Gypsy, so lets stick to the facts, you wrote the following

"Though technically Austria and Germany do jail them as well to prevent violence, though, more then likely violence against them" which is not a correct statement so I then replied pointing out politely what is going on in Germany

"it is done in Germany because of the guilt which is still felt there and secondly Jews are seen as untouchable people within Germany, you cannot say anything about them without being anti jewish........its sad but true.

The problem there was I just wanted to inform you of whats going on but as usually you dont like to be put right on anything so you write back starting with the following

"I know why it's done in Germany Black Prince," the usual Gypsy reply. I know everything phrase , you cant tell me anything.

This is your way of putting people down, you do it all the time, so I replied the following

"gypsy..........sorry, you dont know.....you have no idea........Ive had my house in Germany for last 20 years...........I know what the atmposphere is like here, what the attitudes are.........not what printed in papers and not whats seen on TV.

You will note that I put first of all sorry, this being a way to try to get over my point without you taking it personaly but of course I had contradicted you...............not allowed in your book, you know the one, nobody can tell me anything one.

Well in future I will try to avoid making any remark to any of your posts, for a good debate you need for sure people with strong and opposite opinions but they must have the willingness to listen to the other side and try to understand what others are saying........unfortunately you are only interested in what you say and if thats not self righteous then nothing is.

The laughable thing is, as soon as anybody critisises you, you suddenely cry foul and that they are attacking you, yes you are sometimes attacked with personal insults but not by everybody and certainly not by me.

And lastly, the word, as usual, Attacked you mentioned here, I never said you attacked me, actually I never even intimated it anywhere.

That saying "I have respect for all religions" is sort of required these days. Something that one says so as not to appear rude or nasty. I don't really get why I have to have respect for any religion.

I respect the effort that went into making the great mosques and cathedrals. I respect the architectural genius of the designers. I respect the artistic genius of the painters and scultptors involved in making the religious works of art but the religions themselves?

Not at all.

What on earth is there to respect? The books are not even fun to read. Deadly boring. The practices of them idiotic.

Do I respect the druids who worshipped the sun? Not a bit. I think they were doing the natural human thing when faced with the unexplained but respect. No way.

Black Prince you are accusing me of having not experienced anything, WHY would I agree with that?? Rather then ask me why I would have the opinion that Germany and Austria will not jail as many people for haulocaust denile in the future, you said:

"gypsy..........sorry, you dont know.....you have no idea........Ive had my house in Germany for last 20 years...........I know what the atmposphere is like here, what the attitudes are.........not what printed in papers and not whats seen on TV."

So really it's you who is pretending to know everything.

If you read, it was you who started attacking me,"you are the one that says you know, I dont assume you dont Know..........I know you dont" not the other way around.

So please explain to me where you think I attacked you first and where I denied that your opinion was right.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, I am always amazed how you are unable to take any critisium, for you that doesnt exist, you are always right and when someone even mentions anything that does not go along with you, then they are idiots, fanatics or some other term of abuse you can find for them.

The only self righteous person is you, as your are always right, cant apologise for anything ( unless you can stick the knife in when doing it), cant see anybodys point of view, unless its matches yours.

For you the end justifies the means, everything is allowed and nothing is restricted and no rules

As for me, at least I have experienced something, and those are not for public viewing, as there are private things and of a real nature that you would not understand.

mr.paul & nic, so as soldier not religos u respect all ppl & der religons even dose u kill when u occuppy der countrys? i thnk call ppl infidels much better dan go wor wid dem & bern der countrys

As a former soldier and not at all religious, what you say is true.

I have respect for all religions....All i ask is that others dont shove their belives down my throat. live and let live !

[img_assist|nid=54839|title=Perfect !|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

How much more condescending can you possibly be Black Prince? You have absolutly no idea what I have experienced in my life, the people I've met and spoke to, or the places that I've lived. It's very nice that you assume I get all of my information from TV and newspapers, but I assure you that's not true (in fact I rarely do more then skim the news), but you don't have to believe me. For all I know (and what I assume based on what you say) you yourself have never done anything in your life and get all of your information from TV and books. You claim that you have all this worldly experience, but have never said in which way or where you got it. Personally I think your full of it. But you can continue to be the conductor of the self righteous train if you'd like.

Also I find it extremely ignorant of you to suggest that simply because someone has not had the benefit of your "supposed" life experience that their views and opinions are somehow not as good as yours. Quite an elitest attitude don't you think?

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Aghati,

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.

Most of wars and conflicts witnessed and/or lived by human kind are somehow related to religions or involve hate cause by religious differences.

Those who are NOT conditioned by one religion, tend to respect them all equally and therefore won’t fight or kill to defend or attack anybody or even call those who think differently, names such as "infidels".

The fact was that nearly the whole Jewish population was wiped out , and the figures are true there is documentation to proove it. Pointless to dicuss it - it is a fact.

PM

Having been to Isreal twice and having travelled all around Isreal and geting to kn Isreali Arabs and their plight - be sure this is what they are doing, but have a very large lobby in the Bush administration supporting this.

Now having said that the Jews and the Arabs get on very well together in the city of Jerusalem as far as trading is concerned and they help each other too.

Another point is that the biggest enemy of the Isrealies are the Iranians funny how they do businesss in sending their tanks to Iran to be repairied.

Gypsy.........you are the one that says you know, I dont assume you dont Know..........I know you dont. You take all your knowledge from articles and TV, as we all know these information sources are not always non-bias, in most case they are bias to one side or are written in a bias manner....This is the nature of jounalism........information is written in adherence to the views of who ever owns the information medium ( Rupert Murdoch etc).

As for your age, that has never been a criteria for the gathering of knowledge, it only restricts the amount of real experiences one has gained in life but then thats not anybody's fault.

The world is about real experiences not about reading about them, that gives a basic knowledge but not the true live reality that is out there.

People should stick to things they really know about when saying they do, not about things they read about and then say they know. Too many people come and write about things they have no real knowledge about, whether it be religion, war, death, killings, they come with their limited knowledge and then tell everybody that they know better.

Live isnt in a book or articles, its out their in the real world, the books may give you the theory but its doesnt give your reality....

Now I see why discussions on these forums end on wars :)

Canarybird and PM: I DIDN'T deny the holocaust, but I strongly believe that they exaggerate the figures too much. There have been MANY holocausts in the history, the red indians in US, the chinese, etc. but the world doesn't seem to be grieved about them much.

If you live in Germany you are confronted with this day in and day out, there are many camps and museums still there to remind everyone what happened, and the Germans still go around feeling ashamed for this although this happened a long time ago they are still paying and are not allowed to forget.

Until todya they are not allowed to have a fighting army only a peacekeeping one, and many other stipulations are there.

So to deny it is pointless and as you say let them deny it will not change the fact.

From the earliest recorded history, warring tribes have been trying to wipe each other out.

There are many holocausts that do not get as much attention as The Third Reich's Final Solution....for instance almost double the number of Ukrainians were killed in world war 2, and its hardly a historical footnote....VERY few non Armenians know about the Turkish Holocaust that targeted them, etc...etc...

Yes, these are all historic events, and they all happened....but of course they do not all receive the same amount of attention from our collective conciousness because those who control the media can emphaize the ones they choose and sweep others under the rug.

Well this thread is constantly morphing as new topics come up, but at least we can say that holocausts relate to the original topic of honor killings by highlighting human cruelty and babarism but on a grander scale!

In the end, there cannot be peace while there is injustice in the world, and we have divisions (wether they be religious, national, whatever) and groups seeking to control the resources and lives of others....we are such an insignificant speck in the universe and yet we are constantly flirting with our own self annihilation (as more wonerous and advanced technology gets channel to our favorite passtime...war!).

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

The only reason that the Stalin Holocaust is not widely spoken, because there was no invading Armies to over run the Camps, towns and cities. Everything is spoken based on eye witness statement on Stalin concentration camps.

Nazi Germany was defeated and occupied. A lot of allies nations during WW2 learn about about the Nazi concentration camps, as the Nazi germany cities surrender under the Allies Armies advance, then the Nazi death camps were discovered.

At the time Russia was consider an allied in WW2.

Stalin revolution made millions of people disappeared, entire generations of families, religion and culture was absorb under the new communist regime.

The chinese communist did the same.

Fidel Castro, communist Cuba did the same.

North Korea did the same.

The whole concept is to purified the race from other ideological, political and social believes that are not in accord with their believes.

The Red Pope of Qatar Living

No no I understood you dear, just emphasized they can deny all they want not you lol.

Denial does not clear away the facts though to many this might be the ideal way to resolve things.

I love how you assume what I do and do not know Black Prince, or what you suppose my experiences are and aren't. Is it my age that makes you assume that I have experienced nothing in my life, or simply that you think anyone who has experienced bad things would simply HAVE to think like you do.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

actuly nic if u read all religon it call 4 luv so u rong, religon not reson enuf...mostly polotics,

lot of ppl/solgers of army go wor, ocupy country kill da ppl, rob home..but dey not beleiv any god...dey not religos

I have lived there many years to and and gone through every Christmas with films of the Holocaust and that the Germans are still paying tax to cover the debt of the holocaust.

An, I went through the entire month of November on the NPR, and nothing. Here is an article from CTV http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2005/05/03/teenage-sex050503.html

Dealing with Teenage sex that says 1 in 8 under the age of 15 have had sex, and that it's self reported, therefore cannot be deemed enitirely credible.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

gypsy..........sorry, you dont know.....you have no idea........Ive had my house in Germany for last 20 years...........I know what the atmposphere is like here, what the attitudes are.........not what printed in papers and not whats seen on TV.

Killing is forbidden in Islam….Islam says “If you will kill a person, it is like you kill the humanity”. Killing of a human, of any age, is murder and the killers should be hanged. That’s all.

Why blaming Islam or all Muslims for a personal action of an individual? Are there no crimes in societies which practice other religions? No one can deny high number of raps of school girls (irrespective of that most of them are raped with mutual consent as a fashion prevailing in young generation of those societies to have sexual experiments in school age) in those countries where Christianity or other religions are practiced. Would you blame Christianity for that sin that is killing new generation of your society?

If someone is Muslim....it should not be meant that all actions by him are an authority to represent Islam.

As many others said, Islam teach us more than that which is acceptable in any civilized society..as Islam is a complete way of life......Islam is what presented in Quran and by Prophet Muhammad and excluding emotional and stupid comments on open forums about Islam..every true scholar in the world recognizes teachings of Islam.

When we say that "Islam is complete way of life"..one must understand that if he is equating actions of a single person to that "Complete Way of Life or ISLAM" then it should also be considered that how much the concerned person is literate to that way of life.....

Just for an example....Medical Science is a part of human knowledge which teaches a doctor to operate a patient....if a doctor learns everything of that way of life for him i.e. Medical Science....he earns good name..and is called a very good doctor......and if a student of Medical Science...doesn’t learn what is required for a doctor and he operates....and if he kills a patient...what would you say?...Is that fault of Medical Science...or the society of doctors is responsible?...No, of course that individual doctor is responsible who performed in contradiction to Medical Science teachings or what society of doctors suggested.......

In the same way...if a Muslim or Christian commits a sin, is it reasonable to say that Islam or Christianity is wrong and/or Muslims or Christian or wrong...of course not...wrong is that person who did against what was required to do as per Islam or Christianity.

Islam never said for killings....Islam says..."if you will kill a person...it is like if you killed the humanity". Killing of a human is murder and the killer must be hanged.

Anyone has right to find the reality and Quran is available in all languages of the world....just get a copy of Quran in your own language and you will find answers to your all questions.

Don't misstate the facts. Find reality.

[img_assist|nid=54691|title=|desc=Wherever you live; live everywhere.|link=none|align=centre|width=|height=0]

nic i 4got: i also wid u...ppl insist show dey r religos & impos on oders, realy unacceptbl. dey must 2 know dat religon btwn man & god olny

timbo no to 4get holocost in 2 citys in japan

As far as I am concerned they can deny what they want, fact is that all the Germans are still paying for it and fact is it was document fact is the concentration camps are still there, fact is it did happen.

Let me tell you this - let's deny the crusades, lets deny the civil war in America, lets deny the 2nd world war took place and lets deny Vietnam - free speech doesn't change a damm thing and it certainly will not change history.

We can even deny we are born and we are all just a figment of the imagination.

No amount of denial will change the history of the world am I right.

Finally lets just deny altogether that there are problems in the Middle East.

Denial does not help me sleep better when knowledge tells me there is suffering all around as was in the holocaust, to which there are still witneesses living till this day!!!!

I still think, and our debate here confirms it, we would be in a better world without religions, as they divide and generate hate, violence and death!

How did the west ignore the holocaust?

Clearly it wasn't the reason for the war but several million lives were lost defeating germany which in effect ended the holocaust.

The only holocaust that was ignored and still is was Stalin's

I know why it's done in Germany Black Prince, and I won't comment on whether it's right or wrong to do so, simply because there WWII and the Holoucaust is still to fresh. However in the future I think you will see less and less being jailed for holocaust denial.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy............it is done in Germany because of the guilt which is still felt there and secondly Jews are seen as untouchable people within Germany, you cannot say anything about them without being anti jewish........its sad but true.

timbo u can print paper sayin:

'it is proof fact of history dat Mr. Bean make 6 milion ppl laaf in same nite on tve'

den print pictur of 6-mil ppl laaf as proof, make movee show 6-mil laaf as proof, bring ppl as witnes who say dey saw 6-mil ppl laaf, den make laafing song bout Mr.Bean & 6-mil ppl he make laaf, den not let oder ppl chek da truth of yr picturs, song & movee. only repet dis pictur, song & movee all time agen & agen...make it sticker in ppl bren...so u have history fact :-)

What's a double standard An?

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy this double standard

Does it really matter if 2M or 6M were killed? The fact that an entire race of people was targeted for extermination, regardless of the number, is what is at the heart of the holocaust. You know I wasn't there and I'm sure you weren't there and most of the naysayers weren't there. But I can tell you that I have a relative whose mother lost every single relative who did not make it out of Europe in a concentration camp. To make light of something like that is beyond disrespectful but I have never heard of anyone being jailed for voicing this view. I have heard of people being jailed for committing hate crimes. The difference is voicing an opinion versus committing an act.

See this was not meant in the real process of war but you can see just how the opinions differ and good so.

However, don't even go into the discussion of Holocaust, it did happen and there were millions persecuted there are films and documentation to proove that - so leave it alone.

No worries Timbo. Though technically Austria and Germany do jail them as well to prevent violence, though, more then likely violence against them. :P

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

sorry gypo didn't read your brackets

No Gypsy they jail normal people too. A relatively well known British author was jailed in Austria for the crime.

Israel has as much right as anyone else to that piece of desert that has spawned the worlds most dominant religious figures.

Bizarre really that God decided to ignore the enlightened and far more developed chinese way back when he was choosing his chosen people to save us. For some reason they all had to come from the middle east.....

Hold on perhaps it's all just bollox :)

And i'm not saying you do it on purpose, it just seems to happen....take it as a compliment ;)

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Qasimilyas read what I said in the opening line of my comment. or let me quote it here "I disagree with it being criminal to deny the holocaust".

That means I don't think denying it should be a crime.

I use the word deny because that is the offence.

Ragna, I don't know how I do it, or what I say to cause it to happen, I really really don't.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

How did we get on the subject of the Haulocaust?? :S

Qasimilyas, I can't support you 100% on the Palestine/Israel issue I'm sorry, the issue is far far more complicated then one side is right and the other wrong. There is over 3000 years of history that's brought it to this point, and the inereference of many other nations.

As for haulocaust denial, from what I understand the only people who have been jailed for it (outside of Austria and Germany) are people who are heavily involved with Hate groups, and promoting if not outright commiting acts of violence. The haulocaust denial is a technicality to get these people off the streets before someone is killed, Just like you use tax evasion to lock away Mobsters.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

nic i think yr 1st post was hijack coz u tok bout religon hate when subject is bout killed girl in canada :-)

2nd, i try make cleer hate not cum frm religon, HATE FROM POLOTICS & ARMYS.

why hate ppl if dey make no harm 2 u? if dey cum take yr home u'll hate dem watever religon dey hav even same religon like u

i too not like wor & killing 4 all kind of ppl but if dey make harm, not respect u, aggrasiv, rob yr home & goodness of country den u must have brave & punish dem wid more harm, but 1st must live peace & let oder ppl live peace

NPR website

canarybird :) For me, it's not a war since there are no insults going on, as you can see. It's a nice discussion and I hope that some day, I will convince some westerners not to be sensitive about Israel's right of existence :)

Timbo, there are two points.

1. Even if holocaust is a proven fact, you can't jail me for denying that. If in India, you disagree that British bribed Mir Jafar for winning the battle of Plasi, I mean I would say you are denying the facts, but putting you in jail for 3 years?????

2. Secondly, for me and I think most people, we don't DENY the holocaust; we just say that the figure of 6m is HIGHLY inflated to gain the sympathies of the west even till today. Do you agree that if I choose another figure, say 2m, jews and their loyal western governments should NOT have any problems with it?

Thanks.

Dance puppets....dance! LOL j/k =p

Seriously, I think Gypsy just has a knack for picking hot topics, they always seem to generate the most interest...unlike mine, which languish and die a slow death lol.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Hey Gypsy you got us into this cyber war with your post - it started off with a killing of a daughter and now we have a fully pfledged war going on between East and West. lol

"East is East and West is West" and never the twain shall meet - seems to be the actual prover of today don't you think??? lol

I have a bit of a problem to read your english, but I think you have not understood me.

I never said the bad feeling in Qatar is from muslims, i said we all experience it and here we are in a very religious (not only islam!) place.

My previous post was criticizing those who think they represent God on earth, those who only worry about showing to others how religious they are and dont actual behave as such...

Now, the blame finger ponting ledas you nowhere.

As an independent thinker (not attached to any religion in particular but respect all who chose so), I would never wish bad to anyone, regardless their race, color, reliion, etc...

Please do NOT confuse politics and policies with individual human beings! Not eveybody endorses thier government's actions!

I am sad to witness how much hate religions can generate!

Qasimilyas I disagree with it being criminal to deny the holcaust but I agree with mocking prophets of all kinds. If they are really close to god then I am sure they can handle a little gentle teasing (I know I can and I don't even believe in God) or being named after a teddy bear.

I suppose the reason it is allowed is because the holcaust it is proven fact and denying it is basically just meant to antagonise whereas the existence of god/God (don't care but since it is a proper noun etc etc) has as much factual basis as Harry Potter's house elf.

"if the Middle East wants support for condemning the governments of the Wests actions here, they have no further to look

then the West."

Gypsy, in principle, I agree with this statement and I appreciate very much the openness of west to ideas, no matter what. But as I said, I am yet to see a SINGLE westerner who accepts that Israel is an illegitimate state built on the lands, blood and bones of poor Palestinians. Until it comes from some major western diplomat or administrator, I will believe that west has double standards when it comes to supporting jews.

PM: By the way, the first Iraq was also started in 1991 on the name of "saving Kuwait". Also, one thing which hugely multiplied anti-west sentiment in Muslim world is that you're free to mock Prophet Muhammad (SAW) on the name of freedom of expression while you get jail term (seriously) if you disagree with the Highly inflated figure of 6 million jews killed during holocaust, which is a total rubbish. I mean any person should have the right to say that actual figure was, say 2m, but jews exaggerated it to gain sympathies. It's just a historical event, people can have different opinions, but the poor freedom of expression goes lost somewhere when it comes here.

nic u 1st talk bout origin hate & i try explen 2 u wher hate is start; is start from west, esp when dey occuppy muslim countrys, make wor, kill ppl 4 no reason, so natural der will hate in react frm muslim.

now u talk bout not nice feelings in qatar from muslim ppl. i can give u 1000000 exmple bout asheanz/afrikans live in europ and citizns treet dem very badly not even say greeting 2 dem....so? shall armys of dees asheanz/afrikans cum to occuppy make wor & kill dees europ countrys?

west midia make so much hate bout islam in tv, newspaper, radio...2 much...(same u make here)...but sum muslim religon man also make same bout west...but not in muslim midia...but muslim religon man hav rite coz west cum here make wor & kill. Luk wher all wor is? All in muslim land...even in europ kill muslim in bosnia....

Hop dat all wor stop, nic...hop america & izrael amys & ppl cum out from muslm land so all ppl can punish fanatic who make bombs...no 1 will sympathy with fanatic...but now is killing (by muslim) agenst killing (by west)...who right? who wrong? mybe west wrong & muslim right coz west & izrael army cum muslim land

Qasimilyas, if the Middle East wants support for condemning the governments of the Wests actions here, they have no further to look

then the West.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Great comment Gypsy about the maids raising children here - I wish I had thought of that. And beautifully said Canarybird!

I did want to add that I have worked outside the home since before my children were born and I don't think they have suffered one lick because of it. Actually I think they are more confident in many ways because of it.

PM: I never said, it is JUSTIFIED. I say it was on the name of REVENGE; two different things :) I condemn the attacks on civilians very much, but as most Muslims, I appreciate those who attacked western armies in Iraq and Afghanistan to make them run away from our lands.

Secondly, I neither called nor like to call westerners as prostitutes, sexual deviants, etc etc. Sometimes I think that people make an image in their minds and then put words in others' mouths, even when they haven't said them. With all the respect to you, you did it to me at two occasions, as noted above.

Lastly, yes anti-west bias is before 9/11 but West illegitimately settled jews in Palestinian lands in 1948; and till now, EVERY western country FULLY supports Israel; some with weapons, some with diplomacies, some with full backing up, etc. How can you justify that? I am yet to see a SINGLE westerner saying that the state of Israel is ILLEGITIMATE and jews should leave Palestinian lands.

Gypsy, please see my response to PM in point 2 above.

Thanks.

some peoples will never understand it as much as you try to explain it.

:-/

I find it highly amusing Ragna that these people who complain about the Wests liberal ways don't realize that it is these liberal ways and these liberal people who allow them to live in our countries and practice their religions and way of life openly and freely. That it's these homosexuals, and swingers, teen Mom's, single Mom's etc that would shout from the rooftops if any of these Western countries ever did anything to limit Religious rights and freedoms or the rights and freedoms of others. That if more conservative governments (like the one in the US) were in place, they would find the door to our countries slammed in their face, the hijab ripped from their heads and pork shoved down their throat, as it offends our culture.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

it is always easier to face other peoples faults and problems then the own.

yessss,thats it.there are no more words to add.

:-)

Do NOT lump everyone into your rantings about western children and how parents raise them. I have two teenage children whom my husband and I have worked hard to raise in a strict yet loving environment. They don't do drugs, they are respectful to everyone they meet, they are not promiscuous and they don't spew hate towards anyone regardless of race or religion. We have also taught them to think for themselves and not automatically believe everything they read and everything they hear. So please, do not present yourself as an authority on how western people raise their children. Your commment shows not what you know about the West only your ignorance in believing everything you hear.

Do you know the life - Women work very hard to teach and bring up their children - it is not like in the East, they have to work to make ends meet. The man is not obliged by the bible to be the man provider many women are forced to work to put food on the table.

Many families are very conservative and take very good care of their children, you will notice where there are many mixed areas even the muslims are letting their children road the street.

Recently in England there are Somalians killing Somalians just be because they don't like each others face.

There are shias - killing sunnis or vice versa just because they are not from the same secular.

Tell me about real values here where the children are living in some kind of shelter or shot up on the street.

Your kind of propoganda makes me sick from the heart because you have no blessed idea what you are talking about.

Many Westerners are fighting poverty but this does not come in your news does it.

Please be so kind as to keep quiet and be less aggressive when you don't know what you are talking about.

In the East the culture in not all that brilliant either.

Where An, because your use of English suggest otherwise. Please let me know where you found this information because I just googled Norcross and found no evidence of any such survey.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

In YOUR opiniom, western culture has failed because of the freedoms it allows, and you'd preferr more traditional societies....that's your call, and its not a FACT that traditional societies are better.

I personally PREFER a more open tolerant society where yes some people do get pregnant early (I acknowledge it as a possible side effect of the freedoms we enjoy and do not aspouse it as an ideal to be strived for), and maybe our youth leaves home earlier, but become tolerant, self sufficient, and hard working productive memebers of society....i'll take that over the intolernat, opressive, respressive, xenophobic, bigoted thecracies of the wolrd any day of the week that ends in "y"!

No one is saying Western society is perfect, but at least it is a work in progress which is still evolving....unlike SOME stone age societies that still think like our prehistoric ancestors.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

There was recent survey done in Georgia in Norcross area schools last month I was there and the results were on national public radio (NPR). I listen it on radio the results were astonishing 27 % of the kids (Class 6-8) have atleast more than 2 sex partners. you wnat more examples....

An I urge you to face reality, with the exception of women in the West working to support their families and having to put their children in day care (which I don't see has any different from women in the Middle East having maids raise their children) all you've said is completely and utterly untrue.

"When you teach your kids your values they end up losing virginity by age 10 or 12. By age 13-15 leave their homes." Where the hell are you getting this?????? These are extreme extreme cases, maybe 1 in 3 or 4 million lose their virginity at 10 or 12 or leave home at 13 or 15, and those statistics are no different then the ones in Muslim societies.

Unless you have lived in the West don't comment on our values because you know nothing about it.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Dont try to portray some thing which is completely failded in the west and have the whole society is broken. Accept the failures and you will find a way to success by analyzing your failures. They are failed completely no family values, no family structure, no living standard. What is left there just a free society. No parent can dare to ask a daughter or a son where was he / she last night. In canada even spanking is not allowed, which is good I agree but did you give enough time to your kids to teach to understand life, intelectualism. They are so busy in earning beard. women leave home may be 5 or 6 am put chld in day care then go to work, spend 8 hours at work pick child from day care get hom cook some thing and go to bed. Where is life????? When you teach your kids your values they end up losing virginity by age 10 or 12. By age 13-15 leave their homes. Dont need to explain what we did on streets at that age, all of us know it very well. Is this you call western values?

I have no argument with you on any thing my point is please face the reality or even just write here what is truth not what you beleive.

Was this post meant for me - I am a little lost

qasimilyas, if the argument with the West is our military force then why is the propaganada portraying us as sexual deviants, adulterurs and the rest. NONE of the propaganda relates to military force.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

PM Perhaps you are right, but don't you think that most of it is because West killed so manyyyyyyyyyyyy Muslims in the recent past, while Muslims didn't do much like that. What makes it far worse is that West does it under total control of state terrorism with legitimate governments having full confidence of their resident voters. To the extent that both Bush and Blair got RE-elected. On the other hand, the few terrorist acts by Muslims were individual cases done by small groups and importantly on the name of revenge what West did.

Although by west, I more mean US but the war of Iraq saw Britain, Italy, Spain, (and laughingly even South Korea) invading a land which never did any harm to ANY of them. So let's call the Muslims' attitude towards common Westerners as bias but their attitude towards Western governments as Reality.

CNN and Fox are basically the tabloid rags of TV news. They do not in anyone portray a realistic view of Western Society anymore then they do of Arab society. And advanced technology does not effect what your Imams tell you.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

I have watched it on TV being reported by CNN many time FOX etc. It is prominenet over there muslims does not have to do this propaganda it evident in western societies how many cases os teacher student sex how many cases or church sex etc etc.... I was born and raised in a very educated religious honoured christian family, I know ins and out very well by the way which muslims channel, muslims channel have reached to advanced technology yet.

Let me know, reply to Nic, I never said ONLY islam is the way to happiness. It depends on the person practicing and beleiving. Lots of muslims have different or wrong interpretation of islam and you can see the examples like this one. No matter which religion you practice it is how you understand and intrpret and practice.

But I am definetly in your guys' corner when it comes to the frevrent hope that this does not sour the excellent relationship Canadian society has enjoyed with our muslim members!

I guess my optimism comes from the warmth and sense of beloning I received from Canada since day one. I was not born there, but have spent most of my life there....and despite being an alophone, and of a different ethnicity than most of my Canadian friends, I have NEVER once been made to feel like an outsider...I am as Canadian as any (with perhaps the first nations being the only exception)....this has also been true for all of my muslim friends...which is why I hope that this never changes despite the lunatic antics of a few.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

LOL, I'm trying to retain my optimism too Ragna. I know several Muslim families back home (with teenage daughters nonetheless) and I would hate to see them harmed by any of this. (On a side note, in the case of one family, their young daughter has refused to wear hijab, and although it's a point of conflict, it's by no means a violent one, and is just the usual parent/teenager conflict).

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

In this case your work in God's ear, I have experienced a great many things I did not believe would happen but they did especially to Muslims, so although I would like to be as optimistic as you are I can't be, much to my better judgement.

I'm not saying Canadians are immune....there is still much ignorance and bigotry to we combatted, even in tolerant societies like Canada....lets just say i'm cautiously optimistic that this won't have the backlash you guys are dreading!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Cheers CanaryBird, thanks for the back up. I do worry about the effect this will have on the Muslim community in Canada. I know Ragna believes that Canadians are educated enough to not judge all Muslims by this, but I'm not so sure, perhaps it's my small town upbrining I know there is a great deal of ignorance left in my Great White North.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

She was a young girl searching for her life, if she was staying with friends - does this allow her father to kill her, just where in the Quran does it say even if she dihonours her family the parents are allowed to kill her.

Please don't mix media and what actually happens in the West, so many do have sex before marriage but many many more don't. There are a great many more conservative families in the West than you may believe.

One thing is everbody should be clear about her -e murder is murder it is wrong either in Chritain or in Islaq or in any other religeon - in this case Gypsy and myself are more worried about the after effects such a killing and will this start a revolution of killings because of dress code etc.

Not only will Islamic communities will be affected in a negative way again, but people will be afraid of Muslims.

I have lived more that half my life in Muslim countries and have enjoyed the friendship and the goodness of the peolpe - do you think for one minute I care to have their image tarned - no not at all.

As I have repeated often,people will believe what they want to believe, and there will be no argumentation which will change their minds.

Gypsy posted the article for all to read she did not shorten or misread the article.

In my opinion you are the one hijacked by the media look at your post

I believe in calling a spade a spade knox. To me honour killings are not religion or even culture specific (as CTV wisely pointed out) so I have no quams about calling a girls murder because she refused to conform to her fathers strict "religious" rules an honour killing.

Ragna, I know, but feel free to hijack if you want. :)

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

I'm not just saying its one sided....the propaganda battle is vaged by both sides....I was just saying that as interesting a topic as that might be, it wasn't part of "this" thread....that's all.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

As very soon she will rise the ranks and become the cultural ambassador/liberator of all the oppressed women.

Congrats Gypsy on your first Achievement

CTV just made it Honor Killing. Though I was expecting this. The Star hasnt made it yet.

What about the portrayl of the West in Islamic Media? You can't blame one and not blame the other.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Just to clarify to you that Islam or any other religion, is not the essential factor for happiness: I don't practice Islam or any other religion and I am a very happy person who likes to give, share, respect others and provoke smiles!

PS. I do read about religions and study them as a matter of personal interest to try to understand human behavior in general.

This ONE case happens to be (maybe...because until the trial itself he motive is still speculation at this point) about interpretation of Islamic laws, but honor killings is a wide term and is used for ANY killing to wipe out a preceived stain on Family honor....as others said it could be Religious (from other Religions too!!!), or it could be cultural, nationalistic, etc....

Whatever the reason, the concept of honor killing is more shocking that murder (and that's saying something, since we all agree how heneious murder is) because the perpetrators do it to their own children!!

Now on the topic of portrail of Islam in Western media....some very valid points have been made, but that's another topic entirely....

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

An you're asking me not to get hijacked by Western medias view of Islam, then you say: "A the a very simple question killing a daughter (for her acts) or having sex with daughtere is bad and it is happening in many western families." WHich is nothing but propaganda and lies put out By your own Islamic media and Imams. So don't try and tell me what is and what is not real.

The fact of the matter is, whether he killed her because she refused to wear hijab, or because she ran away from home, or because she was dancing, he killed her because of a perceived stain to his honour, therefore it's an honour killing. Why do people have such a difficult time with this word??

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, you need to go back to the news paper and read the whole story again with reference to the context. You miss very important points, there were many points you missed the daughter was living with friends (who know males or females and even with females what she was doing etcetc...). She was involved in dacing etc.. so it was not only hijab which make her father to kill her there were many stimulants which lead to this very bad act of killing. but still killiing is not allowed even in the presence of all these bad things. Killing itself is the worse act. So, make it clear in you mind it was not only hijab, so wa not a honor killing for islam may be an honor killing because of family or different western life style.

Once again I would strongly recomend people PLEASE READ ISLAM FOR THE PURPOSE OF UNDERSTANDING NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF FINDING NEGATIVE POINTS, IF YOU UNDERSTAND IT YOU WILL LOVE IT. I AM PRACTIVCING IT ONLY FOR LAST FEW YEARS AND I AM THE MOST HAPPIEST PERSON ON EARTH. PLEASE DO NOT GET HIJACKED BUT WESTERN MEDIA. THEY ARE TOTALLY WRONG.

A the a very simple question killing a daughter (for her acts) or having sex with daughtere is bad and it is happening in many western families. It is a real fact and being reported in media though it is under reported.

From CTV today http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071211/muslim_dad_071212/20071212?hub=CTVNewsAt11

She died of neck compression.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Eco Savvy, are you actually trying to say that this man had a right to kill his daughter because she enjoyed dancing (which many many muslim girls do) and didn't want to wear hijab?

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Thanks Aghati for your input.

Religions are man-made and therefore not perfect (as history has demonstrated).

Religions, sure have their positive side, as all promote great values as goodness, compassion, etc… However, again with all respect for all religions followers, they are also used as a reason to segregate, separate, hate, fight and kill.

Religions remove freedom of thinking, of universal acceptance, of tolerance and respect others as equals.

Religions give excuses to some, to behave as if they are representing God on earth, as if they know very well what God wants from the human kind.

Religious fanatics divert from the core values and spirituality and only focus on the "hardware", on the visible side. They just want to show to God that they are complying with all rituals and rules regardless how good or bad individuals they are.

Just an example (and the world is full of them), here in Qatar (where I believe most of the people say they are religious), how friendly and human the feeling is when we drive in Qatar’s roads? How much respect and alowance we give others? How do we treat labors? How many smiles we come across daily in Qatar? How much we help the poor? How much we reward our workforce? Etc, etc, etc…

Unfortunately the level of positive answers is not proportional to the degree of religious compliance…

Unfortunately it appears to me, very often, that it’s all about showing and not much about being!

nic u say: why does this religion tends to inspire so much hate against those who choose not to follow it? Something must be wrong somewhere, because these are cllearly and unfortunately not exceptions. Most of atackers of what has been lately designated by "terrorism", kill in the name of this religion - why?????

yes sumting rong 4 sure but ppl not C. u luk wher slotering ppl iz happen (bosna, algeria, cashmir, sudan, afganistan, palastin, chechnia, iraq, lebanon) (all muslim) u'll find wher hate start & wher terorsts r made

Then you will argue with me its their choice why to punish adulteress right? Our love for Allah is greater than our children.

Once the child reaches puberty say at the age of 9 or 14 you think she can act like a child, In Islam we dont not have the concept of 18 yrs and above the day child gets mature ......her/his deeds are recorded

We just have to wait for some more details

we just have to wait for more details......huh i was reading that news

she used to enjoy dancing ....hmm involved in haram things and looks like fashion freak

And I argue with my daughter who is 12.8 mnths old not to wear Abaya as you are still young. Last friday she got head injury severe bleeding I have to dial 999 for help and the gal would no go in ambulance without hijab, She was all soaked in blood, how can she wear hijab?

Look at these so called muslim kids fond of dancing? These are signs of hypocrasy they act like non muslims and blame ISLAM dang dang

thinks this death is due to the girl not wearing the hijab. There might be lot more than the hijab controversy.

(Will comment again when concrete facts are released)

Sadly Jauntie that is Canada's second largest national newspaper, on the brightside however it's well known as being notoriously right wing.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

I agree with you Knox

Hope you answer me correctly.

WHERE IN THE ARTICLE IS WRITTEN IT IS HONOR KILLING?

The news is about murder and it is horrible!

Looks like the type of Rag comic newspaper read by people of low intelligence and sells well as a result.

Yeah! Let's get the circulation ratings of the newspaper going! Sod the consequence.

Best not spoil a story with the facts, eh?

I'm so sick of all this winding everyone up ...

Well said TweetyBird, probably the father killed her out of rage and couldn't control his emotions, something indicative of an 'animalistic' behavior in humans, for whatever cause, religion, money, etc. etc. It would be more appropriate to call it honor killing if it was planned ahead.

Anyway, cool down everyone, no non-Muslim is accusing Islam behind this (and rightly so); it's just a MUSLIM who is being accused of trying to force his opinions too much (and rightly so).

For non-Muslims, I think that it was more of a 'cultural killing'; you must have realized that excluding Northern America and Europe, other parts of the world are getting educated slowly and they will be in the mainstream in a few decades down the road. Such things might happen during these transitive times. But rest assured, believe me that when Islam is put aside from the different cultures of the Muslim world, I find it a beautiful religion ready to walk alongside the tide of time.

And so it begins: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=162281

The tragic death of a Mississauga, Ont., teenage girl -- allegedly at the hands of her own traditionally minded Muslim father -- has sent shock waves across the world. Canadians are justified in raising concerns as to whether this is a sign of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in their own backyard.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

I was not allowed to wear mini skirts or other things my dad did not approve of, but I used to go about 500 meters up the road and change into my clothes in the hedges (at that time we could do that) and changed when I was going home again. No harm done.

My father was very strict too so it wasn't until the mini was out of fashion I was able to wear one lol

Its the only country most muslim people feel safe in nowadays. This is just sad!

I hate to say it but I just think it is human nature. Violence and greed have always been around and religion has offered a convenient excuse to practice it. Religious fanaticism, from the Spanish Inquisition and Salem Witch Trials to Jihad, prays upon those who have the least to lose by buying into the rhetoric. It can give those who feel they don't belong a sense of belonging, it can give those whose lives are not that great in the present a hope that the next life will be better, along with many other reasons that only the person who chooses that path can tell you. Of course it should be noted that fanatacism is about the follower of the religion and not the religion itself. I also believe that there are those that deliberately twist religious tenets to further their own cause and greed and entice those who are ripe for the picking to join their cause in the name of Holiness. This is just my humble opinion.

thanks for sharing your view.

I do agree with you that its about fanatism and it does or did involve other religions. But the past is gone and we are living a current problem. Many too many fanatics kill nowadays in the nam of this religion... why is this happening in the 21st century? Is it because the religion in question is relatively new (when compared to Judiasm and Christianity)? Is it because of the way it is being taught allowing fanatism to develop and grow?

Something sure must be wrong somewhere!

Human kind and civilization has way passed the middle age dark period!

Hi canary! yes I agree with you when you said (about the film EAST IS EAST) "that film got a good write up and it is all about keeping up

with the Joneses in a way".

And that's how I see what is happening with those atrosities dubbed 'honour killings'. A 'keeping up with the Jones's' gone mad!

And to all: I read the article and so far the police have declined to give details of the way in which the girl received the injuries which eventually caused her death. Her fellow students and neighbours have "suggested" there was a problem with her father and what she wore.

" ... teenager was killed in a family dispute over her choice not to wear traditional Muslim clothing, her friends say...."

I seem to recall having a similar problem with my own father. I used to call out 'goodbye' as I left to go out, then crept back in and plastered my face with make-up and crept out again. Happily my father was more rational than this poor girl's dad was.

Who knows what went on in that household to cause such a temper to flare up and harm his own daughter.

No where in the article does it blame anyone or anything except the father - who was so mortified he rang the police !!!

I'm getting used to being the evil outspoken Beeatch on QL. Sadly though, as soon as Renee asked me to come up with a joke about this, one did pop into my head. I think I have issues :P, I just can't keep a good joke (or a bad one) in.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Fanatics the world over have killed in the name of their religion including those who practice Islam, Judiasm, Christianity, etc. Ever hear of the Crusades - not a good time in Christian history. But the key here is not religion but fanaticism ( and sometimes greed).

Not to worry some people will dismiss what I have to say because I am part of your clique and/or you have me under your thumb like the QL admins eventhough we've never met ;)

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

No offense to so many nice people who choose to practice the religion in question. But may I ask, why does this religion tends to inspire so much hate against those who choose not to follow it? Something must be wrong somewhere, because these are cllearly and unfortunately not exceptions. Most of atackers of what has been lately designated by "terrorism", kill in the name of this religion - why?????

Be good and respect all as equals - wouldnt this be much easier to follow and certainly pleases all.

Ragna, didn't you know that everyone else is allowed to say what they want on this site BUT ME?

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

While I might point out that laughing about such matters in inherently in poor taste, I would NEVER attack you, insult you/call you names, DEMAND you edit/remove your post, DEMAND am apology, and call for you to be BANNED!

Now do you see the difference between gown up behaviour and childish one?

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Not only do they use religion as an excuse, but they also start scolding anyone who says "they used religion as an excuse". So we're supposed to see sh!t happening and keep our mouths shut! Whether QL fanatics see it or not, this guy killed his daughter in the name of Islam. Sadly, all the muslims in the community will have to pay the price...I hope I'm wrong though, and I hope all the non-muslims over there know the truth of the story.

I'm sorry but Renee, your using the death of a teen in Canada to further your argument with a member on this forum is more a testiment of your character than hers.

This is my opinion - however another topic to be resolved by QL

Good Morning Renee, and how are you? I've been trying to think of a couple of jokes to lighten the situation, but alas I haven't really come up with anything. How about you?

The closest I can come is a mental image of a young muslium girl accusing her parents of wanting to "honour" kill her because she missed curfew. Really quite a black comedic image, but comedic none the less.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Religion as an excuse somes it up exactly. Fanatical people always have and fanatical people always will justify their acts using religion as their excuse.

The important point in this thread is the senseless killing of a young girl and the impact it may have on the community where she lived.

I say we laugh about the first honour killing in Canada-- After all EVERYTHING can be joked about, yes Gyspy? ha ha ha

Come on Gypsy lets laugh about this, funny ha ha

"I'm quite upset about this"-- sorry if I'm putting your panties in a twist!!

BTW that avator really suits your personality :D

It's more the shame Amnesia, unfortunatly he may even get others killed in the name of his honour. :(

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

all I can say is that this is murder and as usual Islam was used as an excuse.

Such an act isn't allowed. He killed her for 'honour' but in turn, he shames himself.

__________________________

It seems to me, that people like to interpret things to suit their own agenda. Whether it was a crazy father who decided to murder his child using religion as an excuse, which is complete BS! Or whether it was some QLers who insist on getting all aggressive and defensive when noone really insulted them, it's like they're putting words in our mouths. Noone insulted any religion, so why do u have to keep bringing it up ??

I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield

Yes spot on, during the trouble between Northern and Southern Ireland in roundabout 1918 - I think - my Dad lost many family members to this catholic and protestant thing. Since then how many more have suffered because of fanatics.

Bang on Ragna Rock, honour killings are completely unIslamic and UnChristian, and Un-whatever religion you say you are doing it in the name of. THe only thing that connects religion with an honour killing is the mind of the fanatic performing it.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

You must all know that killing in the name of religion has been going on since the dawn of man. There are sick individuals who perform acts in the name of Christianity that are not written anywhere in the bible. But the point is - they still perform their act based on their warped interpretation of that particular religion. It in no way means that the religion condones the practice and those of you who are trying to turn this thread into an attack against Islam should realize that.

In this article the first paragrahp states "... in a family dispute over her choice not to wear traditional Muslim clothing...." According to the definition in Wikipedia a Muslim is an adherent (follower) of Islam (i.e.; the argument started over the teen not following Islamic clothing customs).

With that said - it does not say that the murder was premeditated or planned. If it were premeditated then in my mind that is an honour killing but if it was just a parent who went to far (not that I condone that !!) and in a fit of rage killed accidently then I would have to say, in my opinion, it was not an honour killing. It could be this father was so angry at the moment that he went too far and taking his daughters life in the name of Islam was the farthest thing from his mind.

Religious aspects aside - as the parent of a teenage girl it sickens me to think of how much this poor girl suffered and how afraid she must have been during these last traumatic moments of her life.

It is human nature as you say....but I am hoping that Canadians (with their education, and tolerance) can overcome this impulse....as I said before Muslims in Canada as an intergral part of our multi cultural mosaic, and have not had problems in the past...lets hope that continues, and cooler heads prevail.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Actually that film got a good write up and it is all about keeping up

with the Joneses in a way.

This is my main fear as people are only to ready to blame a religeon rather than a person. People will be afraid again and depending on the community how it will settled.

Unfortunately knoxcollege does not understand the way the West think and is not willing to accept that even if it is (just a murder) it will and again it will be pinned to Islam. People are all to ready to blame.

"East is East is a BAFTA award-winning British comedy film released in 1999.

It is set in a mixed-race household with a Pakistani father and a British mother in Salford, in 1971. George Khan (played by Om Puri), the father, expects his family to follow his strict Muslim ways, but his children, who were born and raised in Britain, increasingly see themselves as British and reject their father's rules on dress, food, religion, and living in general.

East is East is based on the play of the same name by Ayub Khan-Din".

The father (George Khan) is DESPERATE to be seen by his Pakistani friends as following the traditions HE was bought up with - however, his wife is English and the children were born in the UK and can't relate to their father's rules AT ALL.

It is a humourous film, but also has a dark side when George beats up his wife because she sides with the children. The sons protect her and George is ashamed.

Anyway - it IS a very good film and describes how this 'honour' thing can get nasty. It's 'family honour in the face of friends' rather than the religious side.

Honor killing is not exclusively Islamic....If a christian father murders his daughter for not following some tenant of the bible, it would be called an honor killing too! So would you object to that too, and say no its not an honor killing?

I don't understand why you are equating the 2 (honor Killing and Islam) just because this one case happened to be about the hijab?

Just because Islam doesn't condone honor killing doesn't mean they don't exist! I support your assertin that this is Unislamic (or at least defer to your greater knowledge of Islam than mine), but I disagree with you when you say this is not an honor killing....clearly it is!

At least we both agree that it is abhorrent and should be punish....let us just hope that Gypsy and Canrybird (and others) fear of a backlash against the Muslim community in general does not come to pass.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

This is not something you can influence and unfortunately you are still unable to grasp that for the West this has to do with the Islamic religeon. Whether you want to believe that or not.

I think we all agree that Islam doesn't preach violence like this. But the fact is this father killed his daughter in the name of preserving the culture which includes Islam! So whether the religion is innocent or not, it will have to pay the price of this sick criminal's actions. From what I've heard, Muslims get along fine in Canada...I just hope this won't ruin it all :(

I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield

As you ask us to understand how and what the Islamic culture thinks again you have to understand the the image of Islam in the West will be damaged as you have to understand how the West thinks too. They will blame Islam however you look at it be sure.

After 9/11 Islam and Muslims are all potential terrorist whether they believe that or not. It is not enough that I or you know that is not a fact but people will believe what they want to believe.

Keep culture and religion separate and do not generalize one person's beliefs on everyone else. If a person kills someone for his distorted beliefs, not necessarily all the other persons belonging to the same culture or religion share his views.

If 100 Muslims are terrorists that doesnt mean 10000000 muslims are terrorists as well.

What that person did was unislamic, so lets keep islam out of the discussion.

Regards

KC

Don't bother yourself to teach (by the way you don't do it well anyway),I have a teacher, but Muslims get blamed whether things are in the Quran or not and this damages the way the world looks at Islam.

No need to go the this Islamic Center in the industrial area there is one in the Souk and they make a damm good job of what they teach about Islam.

Gypsy ... you are right, it's an honour killing .. in the name of religion ! but due to ones bad act, it does not reflect Islam image or in any religion ... yes he did for the cause of religion but he is forgetting that Allah has clearly mentioned in Holy Quran that killing of one person is killing of all humankind on Earth...

Also you are right that this will have bad impact on other communities about Islam, but again common sense they should look what Islam teaches to humankind, not an individual's act.

We strongly comdemn such cruel act.

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this is just murder, the father has to get the punishment for killing a person...there is no justification in Islam for killing someone for he/she violates the religion,,,I think she should be punished to death too ...

Blessed are the geeks, for they shall Internet the earth!

What i mean is that in Islam, there is no such thing honor killing. I should have edited my post.

glitter-graphics.com

"For adultery there is punishment and that too if meted out by the authorities. You can call that honor punishment of lashing.

For starters How can people relate the killing of that girl to Islam. Does Islam pronounce any punishment for not wearing the hijaab? If not than the killing is not related to Islam and what that person did was unislamic. So this takes out honor killing as well. As honor killing is seen as an illegal and unjustifiable punishment for violating islamic codes.

Hope I have made myself clear."

This has to do with Islam, and by the way what does adultery have to do with this theme.

It has very much to do with Islam because this is the religeon asking the women to cover themselves, even if there is no punishement mentioned in the Quran - the idea that a woman should cover herself is derived from the Quran, only fanatics take this a mile further. This will of course blemish the Muslisms in that community - you have to understand the way the West think.

I am really getting sick and tired of these useless and utterly long debates and conversations. I dont have the time to teach everyone what is Islamic and what is not. If you wanna learn Islam, go to the Islamic Centre in the Industrial Area,

"Appearances can be deceptive, all that glitters is not gold"

I condemn the NON-ISLAMIC KILLING of the girl.

Over and Out.

Knoxcollege you defintion of honour killing is WAY off. Most women (and not a few men) who are killed for Honour are killed because they have violated cultural norms, Islam or anyother religion is just used as an excuse by people who are ignorant of what is perscribed by religion and what is simply a cultural more.

Technically hijab is perscribed by Islam, HOWEVER, it does not say in the Quran that a woman should be killed for not wearing it, HOWEVER this father took it upon himself to believe that if his daughter did not wear hijab, as perscribed by the Quran and the culture he comes from, that his daughter should die. This belief, WRONGLY held by the father, makes it an honour killing. Because he killed his daughter out of some mis perceived notion of honour.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

It does damage the community's image as a whole.....but in general, Muslims coexist quite peacefully in Canadian society, and are valued and productive members...their conduct as a whole is exmplary.

Some narrow minded people will point to this as an example of how "ALL" muslims are evil....but rest assured (that in Canada at least) people (on the whole, becuase there are always exceptions) will not fall for that any more than they would condem all black people if one of them murdered anyone.

The act is outrageous, and the motive (while not publicly disclosed yet....though obviously will have to be during the trial) is what is most schocking.....honor killings (to remove the stain of a preceived slight on one's family name) is anathema to Candian culture and values.

To answer Knoxcollege: it is different because the motive (to remove a stain on one's honor) is different from say loss of control brought about by anger (when a spouse walks on on a cheating spouse and kills them in a fit of rage) or Greed (when one kills a spouce to collect insurance money), etc...

In the end they are all murder, but the laws prescribes different punishments based on the circumstances (ie manslaughter, second degre murder, first degree, etc...)....now whether one thinks this is right or not is another topic entirely.

Unfortunately, honor killings seems to be the purvue of religions, and as Gypsy said is not even exclusive to any one religion (they all do it)....the fact that this is the first one in Canada should give you an idea of how rare this is for us....for the record I don't know if it really is the first or not, but its certainly the first i've heard of!

And to top it off, as a new dad myself with a baby daughter that gives meaning to my life, I find it hard to describe in words the emotions that went through my mind as I read the article.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I feel this is so outrageous she was a young girl starting out in her life and here only wrong doing is she did not want to wear a scarf on her head.

A life is gone, a family is ruined, a community will have lost it's face the whole of Islam will be blamed for one family's reaction against their child.

It's not the killing alone, (although in itself is a disgrace) it is the effect it will have on many other innocent people.

I loath fanatics of any kind they cause so much disruption in the world.

for not wearing hijaab? or even to punish? So what this guy did was unislamic and Islam has nothing to do with the killing of the girl

For adultery there is punishment and that too if meted out by the authorities. You can call that honor punishment of lashing.

For starters How can people relate the killing of that girl to Islam. Does Islam pronounce any punishment for not wearing the hijaab? If not than the killing is not related to Islam and what that person did was unislamic. So this takes out honor killing as well. As honor killing is seen as an illegal and unjustifiable punishment for violating islamic codes.

Hope I have made myself clear.

Thank you for the thread.

We are not discussing technicalities and minor details here about what to call it (this is not addressed to you Gypsy). Whether it is called honor killing or simple murder. Shall we call it Religious killing or Islamic Sharia killing?

The criminal killed his innocent daughter for not obeying him. This is a crime and Islam has nothing to do with it. In fact if that guy was in our area here, he should be sentenced to death.

To hell such sick-minded people who give a bad idea about religions in general and Islam in Particular.

The result of this incident is more strict laws against such people, later some jerks would start riots and demonstrations that the Canadian government is against Muslims and discriminating and whatever blablabla they would think of.

Is this for real ? He killed his daughter for not wearing a freakin' hijab ?!

I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield

it's the tradition, but many times people tend to follow horrible traditions like this. I hope this time the father and brother will get a horrible punishment, because so oftenly they can just get away with it. Like it's not about a human life, just about a furniture. :S

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http://www.freewebs.com/qatarpets/

CanaryBird I completely agree with you. This is going to have a devastating effect on the Muslim community in Canada. In much the same way the Columbine killings made people oversensitive to the acts of kids in schools, and their writing and drawings (creating a bit of a witch hunt to find "disturbed children") every Muslim girl who complains about her parents (even if its that they got mad at her for not cleaning her room) is a potential victim of an honour killing. :(

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

If a father/husband/mother/son/brother/daughter/sister kills his wife/daughter/sister because they are not wearing a religious garment then it is a honour killing. If someone kills someone because they are black, or because they are homosexual then it is a hate crime.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

in the same way I am saying that you are anti-muslim.

OR it is not an honor killing and you are not what I perceive.

(Word Playing)

You know me better to believe that I think of you with an anti-muslim agenda.

Knox.........the phrase "Honour Killing" as you are fully aware is used in general to describe such killings as these, although not used in the attached article, in the western World the phrase has been adopted to cover such acts.....therefore its use is not incorrect or irrelevent to this article.

The sad thing is that such acts have taken place in all western counties. England, Germany, France, italy USA etc. There is no place in this world for any killings but killing your own child for such a reason belongs to the crazy, Fanatic part within our world and should be dealt with in the hardest manner possible that the law permits.

It is quite right, however it damages the image of the Islamic Community who live there, this in turn will make people turn against that community.

The damage done is irreversable for such a community, they have the right to normal lives.

typical egotistical person. he really must be proud of himself he better dies.

[img_assist|nid=21285|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

So every woman who does not wear the hijab and is killed by her hsband, father is honor killing?

And what the hell has hijab got to do with honor. You yourself added hijab to the honor of muslims? So practically if a woman does not wear hijab and is killed for not wearing hijab, it automatically makes it an honor killing?

Just like if a white kills a black, it is racial killing, And if someone is killed who turns out to be a homosexual, it is racial killing?

My honor and my mind are both lost.

Knox did you completely miss the post where I said that this would have an unfortunate effect against Muslims in Canada and I'm upset about that, or did you just jump on the Gypsy hates Islam bandwagon without reading what I say.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

You can be whatever you like, I don't care, but there is such a thing, it exists in the heads of fanatics and maniacs who do such a terrible things and damage the picture of Islam and Muslims.

You can check the internet you will find out plenty about these things.

You can now all see what is Gypsy trying to do?

Need I say more? She adds the word honor by herself, and makes it an honor killing.

Some word and emotion player.

Call it whatever you want, its still an unforgivable act....and my outrage is aimed at those responsible, not their religion, skin color, fashion sense or anything esle! For what they have DONE, they need to be punished.

What i'm baffled by, is how one can do this to a child...and their own child at that....makes my heart hurt and my head spin =(

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Knox, the father killed his daughter because she wouldn't wear hijab. That makes it an honour killing. common sense.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Your point may be valid but again this is damaging the Muslim community the hate will spread aagain and there will be more and more people aware that Muslims are dangerous people, and already believe that the whole of the Islamic people are under cover terrorists.

Do you think Islam made a plus point here - no way.

This does go on and no one said every Muslim killing was and honour killing.

An I didn't say I hate Islam, I said OTHER people will say I do.

Knox, if a Christian killed his wife or daughter and claimed that he did it in the name of Christianity it would be an honour killing. An Honour killing is when someone does it in the name of a religion.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

I'm a muslim also and there is no such thing as honor killing.

glitter-graphics.com

Hope you answer me correctly.

WHERE IN THE ARTICLE IS WRITTEN IT IS HONOR KILLING?

YOU JUST Added the word honor for yourself?

You are doing one hell of a job in inciting the people.

You are brilliantly intelligent and Clever.

that's sad..why take life of someone because of THIS?...what a waste of life...clearly one must be of knowledge about his/her belief...taking one's life is non-permissable..

[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

God did not give any of them permission to kill because they are not covering their hair. She was a young girl wanting to live a normal life she could always have chosen later to wear to cover.

I hope the whole family goes to jail with a life sentence and hard labour, brothers and sisters for spying on her and the mother for allowing such a crises to happen.

The has been a lot of this in Germany where Turkish girls have German boyfriends and the father and brothers follow to kill (honour killing.

Seriously, this is not in the name of Islam but again Islam will be dammed for the crazy people who say they are acting in the name of God.

Everywhere women are killed, sometimes by their husbands. This happens in USA as well. Recently I read about the sikh Guy who killed his wife as she was thinking of leaving him and this was termed as honor killing.

Was the Sikh a Muslim? or is this in Sikhism to kill your wives if they seek divorce?

The problem is with the media when a muslim kills his wife, it is termed honor killing and when a christian kills his wife, its termed cold blooded murder. We need to set a line to decide what is honor killing and what is not.

Every murder involving a muslim cannot be honor killing.

Set the Facts striaght or make your mind what constitutes honor and what does not. And why 99% of the time muslims are accused of honor killing. I dont see any honor in killing anyone, unless the law itself takes the ultimate punishment.

Canarybird.. whatever it is called, it is something wild.. some sort of blindness to religion... I am damn sure these sort of religiously handicapped or blind people does not represent the whole muslim community. They follow their own version of islamic law... this is not real Islam. So they should be given a proper lesson. Even though they live in Canada.. I think they still live in jungle.

how can you KILL your own child??? That the most despicable thing I have ever heard of...

I feel sorry for the little girl, her friends, her family. Islam never allows killing for personal benefit or honour or family honour. This is very well defined in the holy Quran and and the sayings of the prophet (peace be upon him). On the otner hand islam never allows for an open sex in the society and in certain cirsumstances it allows to stone those who do adultary but as I said only in special circumstances not in every single case of adultary.

I think Gypsy who posted this thread should not say I hate a particular religion but you can hate act of certain person not the whole religion. Before making any coments like that and hearting the followers of thius great religion you should read about religion and broaden your vision only than coment with out having enough understanding of the topic dont jump in and coment.

This only happened yesterday, and I have a feeling it will have a huge impact in Canada, almost as much if not more, then the Columbine School killings. My guess is that a lot of Muslim families will be kept under watch by neighbours and reported everytime a girl complains. It may stop a few more honour killings, but it will also cause a lot of issues and a bit of a witch hunt if you ask me.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

Reminds of some weeks ago QL when every one was down on Australia after some one had posted the article about the Australian politicians who basically told anyone who didn't like australia's laws to leave. (this was after certain islamic clerics petitioned the government to introduce sharia law) This is what hey want they want to justify these killings by hiding behind islam THis is what gives Islam a bad name.

I hope they throw the book at them!

Murder in itself is so vile and loathsome...one of the most heineous acts of human depravety....but to do it to your own family!!

No matter how dishonorable, insulting or whatever my daughter EVER did, I could never bring myself to harm her, let alone murder her....my heart aches =(

Stay safe all.

erfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Yes there is it is not stated in the Quran but this is what they call it.

Actually the whole family should go to jail for persecution and stay there all their lives and may they all rot in jail for such a stupid thing.

This is just another cool blooded murder. As HMR1973 said, there is no such killing permitted in Islam. So the criminal should be punished as per the law.

she was a teenage girl for goodness sake, does this not tell you something about what some men believe.

This does go on all over the place in Germany with Turkish and definately in England - one very good report on Al Jazeera the other evening.

I absolutley hate when it is said there are not honour killings - there are and they are initiated by the male members of families.

I didn't say Islam killed the girl, although she was killed for violating Islamic rules, it was her father that took it upon himself to be her judge, jury and executioner.

"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco

However It does stone those who violate the honor of women.

im a Muslim, & there is nothing in islam called killing , i think the father must be punished for wt he has done, but referring to Islam, killing is for bitten.