Considering a move to Doha - would appreciate any advice

Noted Dweller. I am very fortunate as my current employer offers two year fixed rolling renewable contracts which historically I believe they have never reneged on. Obviously the all come with an initial probationary period.

This has allowed us a great deal of forward planning so have never had to worry about the the dreaded "brown envelope" scenario.

That said we did consider the situation in the event things got too hot here during the 'problems' a year or so ago due to terrorists, and we decided we would keep it rented as there is a very liquid rental market in the area where we live, so worst case would be to rent another house locally for a few months until our house became available again.

Although we have only been abroad eight years we are already noticing each summer how much the UK is changing (for the worse) since we left. It is still our intention to one day settle in the UK again when the kids are grown up, but you never know, we might be tempted to warmer climes - especially with some of the attractive freehold developments being offered these days in places like Bahrain and Oman beckoning.

Regarding keeping a house in the UK. We kept one in the UK from 1978 until finally leaving the Gulf in 2004 (not always the same house) but never rented it out. One of the problems (not quite as prevailant now) was being released suddenly. In the 80's the dreaded "brown envelope" was sent out when you were on leave.

Having returned permanently to the UK, we couldn't settle as it had changed significantly. We sold up in the UK, moved to Turkey and so far haven't regretted it once.

No worries Mark. Happy to share my opinions with someone in a similar situation to the one I was in before first coming out here years ago.

As for my own situation I'll probably start asking questions again once I have had another interview in the next couple of weeks.

Remember I am currently in Saudi - considering moving to Qatar, which I have visited on business several times.

I only return to the UK a couple of times a year, probably for a total of about 30 days, so never come close to endangering my tax free status. I also have UK business interests but am classified with the Inland Revenue as a non-resident and am treated accordingly. I fill out my tax returns and pay any tax due on UK-originated income, keeping offshore earnings totally separate.

My family tend to go back for the whole summer (mainly due to the heat out here), and my wife oddly seems to spend no more than 91 days back in the UK in any given year! We also punctuate the year with short breaks to places like Dubai and Oman, which are very family friendly. We have taken advantage of our location to also holiday in the Far East.

The whole Middle East has two major annual holidays, Ramadan Eid and Hajj Eid. Both last about a week each, and in addition to that you should get between 30-35 calendar days vacation, so all in all it is more generous than the UK. Also for the whole month of Ramadan all businesses work on reduced hours, so you will probably have a month of working 6 hours a day too! I would strongly recommend the family join you as in my experience trying to do the posting on single status with periodic trips back can cause huge stresses in relationships over a long period of time. It really depends on the individual but it wouldn't be for me.

Finally regarding business, I would say if you have a good reputation and are patient polite and courteous at all times, showing respect for the local customs you will soon strike up a valuable network, and yes, once you know people with 'wasta' then things do get a lot easier.

Cheers.

sheikky, you are obviously a good bloke to know!

This is my last round of questions... for now! As I am aware that you have started this thread to get info for your own uses and instead have picked up a near stalker!

How often do you return to the UK, and is it something that you would consider doing on a regular basis? i.e. Once a month or quarter? (I understand the tax restrictions, but I have other business interests in the UK).

How often do you get out of Qatar? Do they have bank holidays and long weekends, and what is the average holiday entitlement in the middle east is it similar to the UK? (One thing I have to consider is going out without my family)

And lastly, being a banker I am sure you know alot about how business is done in the Middle East, is it more about who you know?

Many thanks...again

I'm happy as an expat for the time being. Its been a wonderful way to bring up the family, outside the confines of the UK. That said, I am a proud Brit and its always been my intention to eventually settle back down in the UK, financially secure.

We have kept our family home in the UK over the past 8 years while we have been away and have had it rented out. When we return for the summer I take a local house on a short let or move into our own home if it is vacant. I would never be without bricks and mortar in the UK, one as an investment, and secondly it will always be home.

When we moved to Saudi our youngest son was only 2 months old so my wife was a full time mother and housewife. The older two went to school. For the first couple of years she was busy primarily with the baby but made friends through the school too. After that she had an 'iffy' year when she wasn't so happy as the 'baby' didn't take up all her time and she often felt homesick and went through bouts of loneliness and boredom at home by herself. She decided the answer was to get busy and keep herself occupied so the following summer she trained up as a beautician and since then has managed a couple of salons over here, which she enjoys and also keeps her busy meeting new friends. The key she will always tell any prospective expat mum is to keep a positive outlook and be busy. Work for her was a major godsend.

People out here also go out of their way to be friendly and social as we are all in the same boat, so to speak. Lots of creative home entertainment, dinner parties, BBQs etc as well as organised events by the British Embassy and Business Groups that you can join free of charge.

You need to keep an open mind but the social opportunities out here really are very good once you begin to get to know people. Like anywhere else, life is what you make it.

Sheikky

I hope this helps a little.

sheikky, thanks again..

Are you now settled outside the UK? Do you keep a foothold within the UK.

My wife has seen your replies now and has fired a lot more questions at me.

How did your wife settle in? Did she go with a career, and or was she a house wife to begin with, with three small children. Was this isolating for her? How did you build up a social circle, through work or through where you lived?

Mark

Hi Mark,

Some very reasonable questions raised - I'll try and answer as best I can.

When I talk about safe and secure I mean from the perspective of day to day living. The only real threat we have here is from a random terror attack (ala July 7th in London!) or bad driving. No danger of the drunken British yob culture, vandalism, mindless thuggery, burglary, violent crime etc. Your wife could safely walk alone through the middle of many Middle Eastern cities late at night. There is no way the same could be said in the UK. I think that is worth a lot.

Compound living shouldn't be viewed in terms of siege style living. Picture a complex with swimming pools, restaraunts, pre school, shops, gymnasium, bowling alley, tennis courts to name but a few amenities. No travel to time to these facilities for you and your family, and included in your rental price. Once you step outside the compound these cities offer superb shopping and restaurants so you don't feel that you have to remain 'walled' in. Having lived this way for a number of years now it would remain our preference if we move on to another location in the Gulf.

My commute here is far shorter than it ever was in the UK, so even though I work hard I find I leave the house later in the mornings and am always home earlier than I ever was back in the UK. This gives me priceless time with the family. Sun always shining, the family seems to be happier - could just be me!

Quality of life - you have everything here materially that you could possibly want in the UK. Better climate, low crime rate, much more spacious accomodation, facilities, a very family-oriented culture. And, along with all this, as long as your package is structued to protect you against rising rental prices and school fees I am sure you would be in a better position to save some money.

Hope this helps a little.

sheikky,

thank you for the reply, and I am sure that if things progress my wife would appreciate a womans perspective on expat living, however could I continue to pick your brains in the meantime.

My problem is I really do not know what to expect, in some respects I have a pre-conceived conception that the Middle East is almost like a third world country with Hi-tech facilities, so its a matter of starting very basic and working from there.

You mention that the Middle east is "safe, secure......" and you have "alot more free time, and the quality of life is very high."

I hear you say "safe and secure" but in the next I hear "compound living" that strikes of a contradiction and conjures up an image of how South Africa used to be, living in an almost siege style inside your own four walls.

How do you have alot more free time? Is that as a result of an effort from you, or is it due to the work culture? What is your working week like?

In what way is the quality of life higher? Everyone is saying that the cost of living is comparable to the UK?

Sorry to fire these questions at you, and if you would prefer to answer of the board please email PM me

Thanks

Mark

Hi sa_chick

I'm based in Riyadh rather than the Eastern Province so only get over to Bahrain occasionally :-(

Sounds like we are in very similar situations. Thing is we are pretty settled here in KSA so need to find a bit more out about Qatar with regard to a possible move. I was approached about a specific opportunity so I thought there would be no harm in exploring it. Money wise for me I would be about the same so its all about quality of life.

Next interview is in Bahrain this week, followed by one in Qatar in a couple of weeks.

Please let me know how things go for you and if you want to have a chat drop me a line on [email protected]

I currently live in Saudi, not Doha but there are many similarities. I came out here eight years ago when I was 28, with my wife and three young children from London, UK. I would say the Middle East is a brilliant place to raise a young family, as its safe, secure and the community aspect tends to be really strong. I have a lot more free time with my family and the quality of life is very high. You will probably be able to afford a live in maid - something we would never have dreamt of back in the UK! This gives your freedom to have 'alone' time with your wife as well as making her life much easier at home. If your wife ever wants a reference from the female perspective I am sure my wife would be happy to chat with her about being an expat mum in this part of the world.

We have made some life-long friends since becoming expats. I think being in a foreign country brings people closer together and brings out the best in them, from personal experience. I am also currently weighing up a move to Qatar, but I think you are in the perfect situation to make the move with a young family, as long as it makes financial sense.

Good luck!

Just a word of warning. A friend of mine came here several years ago but went back to the UK because his kids asthma was driving the family crazy. Aparently the dusty air made it flare up so bad the kids were having severe problems breathing. I dont know if some types of hayfever are sensitive to dust. One thing for certain, the air here is very dusty due to the vast areas of unstabilised sand and construction debris.

Maybe someone who with hayfever has a first hand account.

Respect

GIASI

Try searching this board and Expatwoman.com

http://www.expatmum.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=16

Both have many threads on the subject. The question is not property to rent, it is how much you have to spend. If you have QR12000 to QR 15000, you will find a nice place. If you have less it can be a problem. Lots of Brits, many things going on if you want to get out and mingle. If you like warm weather and sunshine, come to Qatar.

Hiya!

I'm a South African also living in KSA (Eastern Province) and been offered a job in Doha...living in a lovely compound, kid in nice school, husband has job here....

Been to Qatar twice so far...seems nice but concerned about accomodation too....

Plz let me know how your interviews go...would like to hook up to have a chat?

Live Your Legacy!

My company has a number of opportunities in Doha, and I have been asked if I would go to Qatar.

I have always lived and worked in the UK, and I (or more to the point, my wife) really need some convincing.

I have read all the threads and it is all very interesting and helpful.

We have two young boys (3yrs and 3months) but we do not have much of a support newtork in the UK, however what we do have is fiercely valued. Obviously if we are to move we would loose this, so is there much of a UK expats community? and I mean is it a community or are there just lots of people from the UK living in Doha?

Also can anyone point me toward some decent estate agents with property to rent. Prefereably with pictures of the property so we can see what you get for the money.

Other than that we have lots of silly questions like.... do people suffer from hayfever!!? and

what is the cost of health cover.......

I hope you can help.

Many thanks

Helloqatar - thank you very much for your informative response. I may be asking you for help again in the coming weeks when it comes to making my mind up on what to do!

There are compounds all over Doha in the range of QR12K to QR 15K that you would be very happy in. If you get less that 10K, you will find very little with decent extras.

The rent question after the Games is all over the map on opinions. Because alot of the owners don't need the money, they might let them sit empty.

Traffic will get better once the half of the roads that are now closed are reopened. Same number of people driving as last year, only half the roads available for them.

Cars, phone, Internet service, food are close to western cost so no saving there.

Thanks for your reply tg but personally I would not move my family to Bahrain as they are (strangely enough) perfectly happy here! We would not want to live separately and we are under no pressure to go as things are goig well both at work and at home.

I agree that Bahrain is a lovely place, one which we have visited many times, but the reason I am on this board is that I have been approached about a specific opportunity in Qatar, so am trying to find out more about life in Doha. I would imagine living in Doha is closer to life in Bahrain, than Saudi?

Thank you both for your detailed and helpful comments. I will bear in mind your comments as I negotiate my package. Clearly its not worth my while moving unless I can get decent accomodation without eating into my basic salary. In your opinion is this a temporary phenomenon with rents? Do you think it will ease once the Asian games are out of the way, with all of the current cunstruction I assume giving more supply with regard to accomodation in the long run.

Assuming I can get a decent rent allowance is there availability in the decent compounds. Could you name a couple please for my reference. I think compound living would be more suitable for us bearing in mind where we would be coming from and would give us reasonable facilities on site.

Thank you for recommending Doha college - it sounds like a very good school all the way up to 'A' Levels. I think my potential employer would foot the fees so not too worried about that. I would have to check regarding spaces once I have a firm offer.

Regarding the traffic I doubt anywhere could be worse than Saudi. I assume the traffic jams people often refer to here are not a patch on what I currently experience!!

We always fancied a move at some point to a more liberal city in the Gulf. We had in mind either Bahrain or Abu Dhabi, but I think Doha would be equally suitable by the sound of it. I don't think I would be ahead financially as I am well paid in Saudi with little to spend my money on but from a lifestyle perspective definitely better for me, my wife, and kids.

Thanks again for your help and I may well be on here again with questions once I have visited Qatar for my next round of interviews.

I have a slightly different perspective...If you have a multiple to Bahrain and if your family can afford to relocate to Bahrain..then a move to Doha is not necessary...

Bahrain is one of the free-est society in the mideast...

In case you are forced to put up in Saudi...the move to Doha would be great for the family...

Life here is better than Saudi, just because it is more normal for both genders. Very few things you can't buy, sports events etc are going on often. You are not locked into a compound every night, lots (??) of eating places.

Rents for 3 BR villa, QR12,000 in a compound would be normal. Schools should be no problem except they are full and getting in might be a problem. Kind of depends on school, grade, test scores, etc.

Your package will determine in the move is worth it. Life style is more open than Saudi, so you can have the gulf living with a few (some) western or EU benefits.

Rents here have gone crazy as you seem to have found out. Cheapest 3 bed villa on a decent compound that I know is 6500 but coming in now you'd really be luck to get something for 10000 and 13000 would probably be more realistic if you're used to good living. The English school here Doha college is pretty good with ever expanding facilities and decent exam results and around 9000+ riyals a term depending on age.

Qatar is far more open and relaxed than Saudi. There are a few good restaurants where you can enjoy a drink and plenty of bars/family clubs and the Qatari people are generally friendly and hospitable. Security here is far more low key than Saudi and the streets very safe to walk around. Even the driving which every expat here moans about is far less suicidal than in Saudi.

I'd say as long as you get a good package, which means your company agree cover increasing rents and your schooling then most people agree it's a good place work and to raise kids.