Is democracy the answer to the problems in the Middle East?

Without democracy; Middle East is a BETTER PLACE,

but SURE , without democracy, US and WEST will not have a 'nice reason'/propaganda to make problem and invade Middle East

do you remember? They have a FREEDOM OF IRAQI people (they said to bring iraqis for the better democracy right).

And now iraqis are facing worst...worst and worst condition ...

Yes in Syria everyone gets along well so long as you dont say anything about the government.Remember some twenty years I think a town was entirely turned into rubble with all the inhabitants killed by the same government and the man who was in charge of this destruction has been given political asylum in SPAIN. Of course at that time it was run by the present ruler's dad.

There is a very simple solution to the problems in the Middle East.

Seperate State from Religion from Education.

I just came back from Syria, very depressing place, one of the "Axis of Evil" states, doesen't have a lot of oil, the USA has stayed out and not interfered in it's politics, only consider it one of the "Axis of Evil" States because it refuses to recognize isreal, on their map it is Palastine.

In Syria Churchs are next to Mosques and everyone gets along well. There were Christmas trees and Merry Christmas signs everywhere. (I am from Canada and we are not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" we must use "Happy Hollidays", more freedom in Syria than in Canada???)

In the USA now we have a very religious government, look where they have led everything, In the Middle East the problems are called Religious. I put forward that it is not Religion that is the problem, it is Religion in Politics. It is a very small percentage of the population in any religion who have power in politics and they are the problem, not the majority of the people.

Who said anything about death? i just meant a decent whooping! Like to slap sense into people!

Public beatings is for medieval minds.

Do not invite death by the error of your life, nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands; because God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living.

Solomon Chapter 1, verses 12-13

Live Life Today like there will be NO Tomorrow !

Public beatings get so much more accomplished than democracy ever will.

Hi butterfly,

Tahnks for your response. From what you've written it still shows that there is a red line when it comes to Jews as a whole that you shouldnt cross. If that were the case then there should be a standard for all the people over the world. You dont pick and choose whom you can criticise and whom you cant.

You say there are laws in all countries to protect individuals and communities but all these laws are only for picking and choosing not for the impplementation irrespective of caste, creed or religion.

If a major newspaper or a major corporation would have done something insulting towards the Jews, the Jews would not demand an apology from the newspaper or the corporation but rather they would have arm-twisted these newspapers and corporations in such a way that they would have been forced to apologise. Or if it were some individual he would have been forced to apologise.

If you take the case of Mel Gibson's rant against the jews. If any famous guy who was drunk would have ranted against Muslims or Christians no mainstream media would have given such prominence or a demand for apology.It would have been reported as the rant of a drunk man. But since it was against the jews it was made out to be huge issue. So what should one make out of it. This is what some finds as alien here.

I was hoping someone smarter than I would answer your question, but since nobody really has and I’m insomniac, well, I will try.

Can you poke fun of a jew?

First, it is usual for media in democratic countries to make fun, defame, criticise or even insult public figures, the government, the prime minister, the royal family, the pope, Jesus Christ, some traditional religious values, God and so on. Whilst I understand the need for our media to be sensible at times, I must admit that lately I’ve grown quite sick of political correctness for the shake of political correctness.

Can you poke fun of a jew. Well you can, if you are smart enough to do it in a way that you don’t insult jews (or at least jews don’t feel insulted) .

To the best of my knowledge, all democratic countries have laws in place that protect individuals and communities from any form of abuse, discrimination, racism or xenophobia, and that would include the publication of racist remarks, even if they are funny, and more so if it incites hatred or violence towards a religious community. So if you publicly make fun of jews, chances are that someone out there will feel insulted and therefore might take you to a court of justice which will in turn decide whether you committed a criminal offence or not.

Again, government has not, and should absolutely not have, interference with what the media decides to publish or what courts of law dictate. So if you as a journalist, cartoonist or whatever, publish something that insults jews, it would be absolutely nosense that jews start to demand an apology from the prime minister or punish the country’s economy… the best way to deal with the matter is to sue the newspaper and hopefully get a court of law to close it. That’s more or less how democracies work, as I understand it. I understand that the concept can sound a little alien for some here.

Hi all,

After reading all of your comments, I could not find a definition of what is mentioned as “problems in the Middle East!!?”

The author of the main topic, missed what kind of problems he meant by this topic. Is it the Arabic Israel Crisis? Is it the Arabic governments with their people!!? Is it the Middle East still has a lot of Muslims? I believe the problem should be defined first!!! So people know what they are going to talk about.

The comments are all about democracy; however no one sets a definition of democracy!!?

Is it the majority rule the minority?

Is it the equality between people, male and female, white and black and colored, Jews and Christians and Muslims and atheists and others?

Is it the freedom of speech? What kind of speech? Is it any kind of speech? Can I curse the whole world as a kind of freedom?

Freedom of actions? Freedom to kill, rape, and steal?freedom to smoke and drink?

People also, talk about Islam, how much you know about Islam? Is it a barbarian religion? People worship a black box in desert and kissing the ground 5 times a day? Is it based on blood shedding? Is it a dictatorial culture? How much you really know!??????????????

Non Muslims, see Islam as an obstacle of their culture to be followed by the whole people of the earth, because they see their way is the right way.

In the middle age, Christianity was ruling people by myths, they were against science, and church burned books and even scientist, because there were contradictions between science and church’s myths (i.e. earth is flat, earth is the center of the universe), church tried to force its myths. Sooner, the church has fallen down; because it was obvious the science has won the battle.

Since then, science is the new real god, church is history and religion is a myth.

since then also, the majority saw, there no need to any religion to live your life, and they create their rules.

And since then, Christianity lost its respect, even for the prophets and principals, people used to make fun of them, talk and draw comics and even talk about god as evil.

After a while, Darwinism and Evolution theory toke place of religion and became the modern civilization and way to think and live.

It is completely different with Islam, Islam, never tell myths, and never against science and never had one error and will never has.

What the West will never understand, Islam is not like any previous religion. It is a complete set of rules guide one during his life since he was born till he dies.

These rules are precious and for the benefit of one and the whole people.

I do not believe that we will find a majority of people who will confirm and accept, betraying, adultery, kill, rape, steal, curse, and more.

People by nature, and that is the nature god create people on tends to kindness and peace.

I will not talk about Islamic rules, or perspective. However, you people, if you want to really know about Islam, you should find out yourselves, search and read.

Know about true Islamic rules and how should Muslims live, do not look to the Muslims current life, it really far from what they should follow.

Let me help and introduce some of the real Islamic links:

http://www.harunyahya.com/index.php

http://www.elnaggarzr.com/Test_fre/English/index_E.asp

http://www.elnaggarzr.com/Test_fre/Spanish/index_S.asp

http://www.al-islam.com/eng/

I hope that, not only the Middle East problem solved but the whole humanity problems solved.

Best Regards,

I am not angry nor bitter.Nor do I have any problem with Jews. I may have a problem with Israel which was a country created by the British and I think the French after kicking out the actual inhabitants of the area. SO therein lies the problem. Dissolve the country and more than half the problems in the middle east would have been solved.

Well holocaust may or may not have happened that not my issue.

Criticise my comments no problem thats what this forum is for. To put what each ones point across. Not to go around claiming others are racist or whatever. That shows your manners. And it tells a lot more about you.

Democracy is not and will not be the solution to the problems either in the middle east or anywhere else.

You come across as a very bitter and angry person. The purpose of this thread was to start a discussion as to what is possible and what could be achieved. I introduced dmocracy as a concept not a panacea. I also tried to define what I meant by democracy and I wasn't basing it on any American model.

You say that democracy is racism. What a pathetic claim. Democracy is the opposite of racism. While you make your stupid claim you also have a rant against the Jews. I think you are racist. Are you sayng that the holocaust didn't happen? I don't know what you are saying. It makes no sense to me.

Surely , you are one funny guy.

Do not invite death by the error of your life, nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands; because God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living.

Solomon Chapter 1, verses 12-13

The hate to israel will not cease so long as it exists. You got to be dumb to think that it will stop. Israel never existed as a country before the 20th century. It was the creation of europeans. It was a way for them to have a control on the Arabs what they couldnt do out of CRUSADES.Also tell whoever told u this to check whether everythings alright in his country before pontificating to other countries about the democracy and related stuff.

I did called my hometown parish/priest. I did ask him the same question: Is democracy the answer to the problems in the Middle East?

This is what he had to comment:

1- Democracy is not the answer, What they need is a federal state, federal laws, separating the church and the state from each other affairs.

2- Give and honor more civil rights, civil liberties, freedom of speech, freedom of movement and a popular voting system to all the legitimatize citizens of each nation.

3- Include the female population as a normal person with rights.

4- Abolish servitude of the social cast system.

5- Keep the monarchy as a "no say, no power", but have a parliamentary government elected by their people.

6- Keep the elderly tribal counsel and treat everyone as equal.

Last thing , he said was a hilarious statement.

You have a better chance in teaching a camel to pronounce, the first three letters of the alphabet, before anything happens.

The hate of Arab states and other militant groups against Israel has to cease, they need to recognize each others sobering and statehood.

Israel needs to work a better approach with the border dispute of palestine. etc, etc.

Do not invite death by the error of your life, nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands; because God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living.

Solomon Chapter 1, verses 12-13

BTW would you be able to poke fun at Jews in Denmark. Just a doubt..................

You can't see my point.

I put the example of Denmark because I believe this country has one of the best functioning democracies in the world. FYI, denial of the holocaust is NOT illegal in Denmark. It might be illegal in countries such as France or Germany, but not in Denmark. In fact I remember a famous danish holocaust denier, something Christofer, blah I can't remember his name now...He was originally german but moved to Denmark and published freely some work about about holocaust revisionism.

Again, if you refer to USA as a model of democracy then is bound to fail everywhere else in the world. The best examples or democracy can be found in nordic european countries, again the ones I mentioned above and others such as Norway or Finland or even Luxembourg. All those have well funtioning democracies.

ABC, without saying if I was unconfortable or not with the protests in the muslim world, the message I got is that people (in the muslim world) did not understand the principles of Democracy. They protested against the Danish government but they did not understand that they were not responsible of the laws in the country nor could the pm imprision anyone or have the power to close a newspaper. In a democratic contry, the government has limited powers when it comes to laws and enforcing them.

remember the hunting down of communists in the Mccarthy era States, trying to bring down democratically elected govts in Latin America. If in the Third world , the supporters(even if they are butchers) of Europe and USA are elected democratically in any crooked way its a legitimate election. Else even if the elections are clean and straight but result is opposite, they will use any means to bring those govts down. Is this DEMOCRACY??

FYI, freedom of speech is not a legitimate right in any part of the world. If you deny holocaust you will be imprisoned in many countries of Europe, If you criticise the jews you will be labelled as an anti-semitic and strangled in whatever way possible. So its better the europeans and americans stop shouting about democracy from their rooftops.

To bring peace in the middle-east first ship out Israel from here and may be set them up in europe where the whole idea was brought up.

BTW democracy is nothing but another way of RACISM where the only the voice of the majority is heard and minority is left to lick its wounds.

You have made a very naive example. You give the example of danish cartoons but forget laws enacted in europe where nobody can question existance or extent of holocaust. Anybody questioning holocaust can be put in jail and this is happening in presumably democratic countries. On the other hand you are uncomfortable even with protests from the muslim world when some stupid man makes fun of their prophet. This is hypocrisy of the highest standard.

I do not know if democracy can survive in middle east or not but still we cannot be sure unless we try. Secondly, it has to come from within unlike the way it is being brought in Iraq. Only then it has a chance to survive here.

No, democracy will surely not works in GCC nor anywhere else in this world. Have you people notify that even a big and strong country which always shout aloud about democracy, like US, has a double standard in applying it,I just can't understand why some people still make US as a reference. There is not guarantee that thing which is won through democracy is always the absolute rightness, some bad things can be good and some good things can be bad, through democracy. No, my friend, the only thing that can guarantee you to a better live is islam. If you have along life, you will see this happened because the process is running.

I don't think so. Democracy can't work in the middle east because most people don't understand the essence of democracy, such a separation of powers or freedom of speech.

Remember when the thing about the danish cartoons about Mohammad happened? Most people blamed the authorities for allowing it and punished the danish government (with boycotts and vandalising of embassies etc). They just could not get their heads round the idea that in a democracy government has nothing to do with its judicial system and that freedom of speech is a legitimate right (even when it is distateful).

I don't see how a democracy could ever work in this part of the world. I trust that strong leaders that protect the rights of its people and encourage education and welfare will pretty much be the answer to some of their problems.

Tyler, don't take US as a model of democracy. You might want to take a look at superior democracies such as Switzerland, Sweeden, Denmark or holland.

And if we all hold hands and sing Kumbay-ah and maybe throw in a rain dance then democracy will work.

Nowhere in the world has a true democracy ever worked on a large scale. Representational democracy results in just as much discontent as we currently have in the middle east. The few more powerful attempting to represent the majority. The only true democracy in the history of the world has been upheld by the Greeks who we now see as toppled and with excessive faults of their own.

And since so many people want to key on "democracy" being an American export then perhaps you should research the Republic of the United States for even the individuals who dreamt of equal representation and freedom for realized that a TRUE democracy was unattainable for many reasons.

The export from the US over the last 150 years has been the idea of "free will of man", "free speech for all", and the idea of a representative government in which the people of a nation have a say in their government. Perhaps these countries could have gone the way of the Greeks or British in the way they had writtten their Constitutions and designed their governments.

Peace in the Middle East will only be attained through the stepping aside of rulers, representation of the peoples' will, and of course the PEOPLE, (not some sheik, mullah, or holy ali baba) must actually have a concern for the politics in their own country and the area surrounding them.

Wars are started and lost on the backs uncaring irreverent people. Wars are prevented and success of nations is built by the hands of the people with concern and determination.

Hmmm- which personality is coming out today?

1- Recognition of other Arab States of the State of Israel. Egypt and Jordan have already done that. They signed a peace treaty with Israel.

2- Recognition of Palestine as a country and state within his borders.

They need to agree to new borders lines and not some borders lines from the 1900's.

Some where they have to compromised the disputed land.

I'll come back and edit my post with better ideas.

I think in achieving those landmarks will cool off the tempers.

Do not invite death by the error of your life, nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands; because God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living.

Solomon Chapter 1, verses 12-13