"Slutwalk" protests spread to India

Straight Arrow is correct.  What would the fathers and brothers of these "sluts" say?  If they came from good families their brothers and fathers would not let them out of the house in this way.

If some of us agree that not all men are the same and all women are the same and not all colors are the same and not all fingers are the same, then also not all rapes is because of one having more power.

Some might say but all colors are used for painting, I will say yes but these colors can be used to make a beautifule drawing or an ugly drawing, same thing goes for the cars if used properly you can reach home safe if nothing sudden happens and stop you, same thing for the power, if this power is used properly then you can use it to defend your self or victim people who are being attacked.

See guys it is simple any thing which used properly will give good results and vice versa.

Tooba : Certain pejorative terms like "Slut" or "wh*re" are traditionally used by men to insult a woman.  They give an idea of woman who is liberal with s*xual favours. To a modest women it may appear that the "cause" is about shedding clothes and advertising s*xuality, which in no way blends with their idea of being a female - agreed (keeping cultural aspect in mind - there are tribal areas in India which are like nudist villages - again different society and culture). Probably the word "Slut" gives that impression. (Hence the debate about the usage of this term in India.)

However the very idea that all men are  so weak that they are ready to pounce and rape every women who is baring her skin more than the accepted norm is ridiculous and probably insulting to men. (May be men will start their own protest parade).

people more friendly and easy to get on with and without respect problems appears.

If people respect each other there will be no clash, I respect the people who discuss in a civilized way with no bad words.

Mom_me ..... dressing up like a slut definetly clashes up with the Islamic way....even if they do it for the sake of protest. I feel really bad for those who were a victim of such inhuman acts but their bad dressing could have contributed towards that evil action.

In case of a rape in either cases the man is the culprit He is the sick dog who needs to be blamed but a mini skirt and low nect is an invite too. This is the reason Islamic teachings prohibts a women to dress up this way and this is the reason we need a Mehram with us at all possible times.

 kareena as your article has stated "Christians make a tiny minority of less than 2%" and from that u want to debate about the rest of the 98% ????

cum on u lack common sense......its not even a ratio of 50 x 50 we are talking about the majority here.... why on earth u want to add the rape crime to the list of other problems existing in Pakistan....just for the sake of argument????

only for the sake of argument u r trying to show a negative picture.... shame on u....U have nothing positive to talk about and then u r sharing ur personal experiences in one to the other thread about a crazy couple ....I am as well talking from my personal experience tooo...I havent seen this crime happening around the place where I have lived back home. Yes we are worried to be robbed quite often when one step outside but no we arent worried to be raped back home.

Rape does happen in Pakistan even if it happened to 1 person we cant deny I have sympothy for those victims even if they were nonmuslims they were human.... but in Pakistan its still not a big big issue as the big majority is still safe from this otherwise epidemic, if we compare to our neighbour country

http://www.meforum.org/2979/pakistan-christian-sex-slaves

Pakistan's Christian 'Sex-Slaves': A Case Study

by Raymond IbrahimFrontPageMagazine.comJuly 5, 2011

http://www.meforum.org/2979/pakistan-christian-sex-slaves

Earlier we saw Egyptian preacher Huwaini and Kuwaiti political activist Mutairi call for the reinstitution of sex-slavery. Before dismissing their position as aberrant, that is "radical," for the record, here are respected Muslim scholar Majid Khadduri's thoughts on the matter:

The term spoil (ghanima) is applied specifically to property acquired by force from non-Muslims. It includes, however, not only property (movable and immovable) but also persons, whether in the capacity of asra (prisoners of war) or sabi (women and children). … If the slave were a woman, the master was permitted to have sexual connection with her as a concubine.

Still, some may seek to dismiss the notion of sex-slavery in Islam as theory, not actual practice, arguing that even if Sharia permits the sexual enslavement of infidel women, neither Egypt nor Kuwait formally permits it.

Let us therefore make an important distinction: While few Muslim governments would formally institute sex-slavery—thereby egregiously undermining their ongoing and very successful efforts at duping the West—the sort of supremacist culture Sharia breeds, wherein seizing anything from the infidel, including his women and children, is an everyday fact of life.

Thus in Huwaini's Egypt, the increasingly Islamist-leaning government does not have an institution to buy and sell infidel women; yet Egypt's Christian girls are constantly being abducted and, as one recent report puts it, "kept as virtual slaves." Likewise, in Gulf countries: while sex-slavery may not be formally recognized, the dirty little secret there is that impoverished and desperate women from places like the Philippines are often hired as "servants," effectively performing the functions of sex-slaves.

To better demonstrate that this Sharia-induced worldview permeates the Muslim world—that infidel women are seen as little better than sex-objects for Muslim men—let us briefly focus on one Muslim nation: distant Pakistan, where Christians make a tiny minority of less than 2%, and where at least 700 Christian girls are abducted annually.

Consider the following stories that never make it to the MSM—a sampling limited to just last month's grab-bag of atrocities committed against Pakistan's Christians (since anymore than that would be too immense to list):

A 9-year-old Christian girl was abducted, gang-raped, and murdered by repeated blows to her head, and then dumped into a canal.

A 24-year-old Christian woman who was kidnapped, forced to convert to Islam, and forced to marry a Muslim, is now reportedly on the verge of being "sold abroad."

At the same time that Muslims were desecrating a Christian cemetery, a Christian mother was abducted, drugged, and gang-raped all night long.

After brutally attacking a priest and his family, another young Christian woman was abducted and raped over several days by a man claiming to be a police officer.

Yet another Christian girl was raped by a Pakistani army major at gunpoint and then dumped off.

A powerful Muslim businessman had two Christian sisters kidnapped, forced them to convert to Islam, and marry him.

One may argue that rape is a phenomenon that affects every society, yet the fact that most women raped in Pakistan come from the mere 2% Christian minority speaks for itself.

Moreover, if you go to the links of these anecdotes, you will find that in every single case the Pakistani police either did nothing to apprehend the culprits or, more often, actually helped them while turning against the victims.

After all, even though Pakistan is not a full-blown Sharia state—you know, to save face in front of the international infidel—Sharia has nonetheless conditioned even the police to see infidel Christian women as little better than violable objects of pleasure, and to always side with fellow Muslims, according to the doctrine of wala wa bara, which commands Muslims to always be loyal to fellow Muslims against non-Muslims.

Nor are such atrocities confined to Pakistan; even in Europe, a Pakistani man recently raped a Norwegian woman, informing her that "he had the right to do exactly as he wanted to a woman."

Focusing on Pakistan has the added bonus of demonstrating one more thing: that Pakistan is a non-Arab country dispels the notion that seeing women as sex-objects is an "Arab" phenomenon; that Pakistanis do not know Arabic dispels the notion that they are being "radicalized" by the likes of Huwaini or Mutairi.

What, then, does Pakistan share with these other Arab nations that advocate the institution of sex-slavery and are in the habit of abducting and raping Christian women? Islam.

Raymond Ibrahim is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an Associate Fellow at the Middle East Forum.

Related Topics:  Sex and gender relations, Slavery, South Asia  |  Raymond Ibrahim receive the latest by email: subscribe to the free mef mailing list This text may be reposted or forwarded so long as it is presented as an integral whole with complete information provided about its author, date, place of publication, and original URL.

Tooba, the 'slut walk' does'nt clash with the islamic way of dressing. It is not so much about dressing as it is about blaming the victim for an assault. What would you say if a man assaults two different women on the same day - one fully covered and other one wearing a mini skirt and a low neck blouse? Or would you say that such a situation is highly improbable ? Would you than blame the man for the first assault only ?

Elizabeth Houde, President and CEO of the Arizona Sexual Assault Network (ASAN), says, “When you hear the term sex offender, you'll immediately think of the middle age man who jumped out of a bush, abducted a little girl, raped her and killed her, something along that line.” She says most sex crimes are not committed by that type of person. Rather, she says, “This is someone that's in your family. This is someone that's next door to you that's committing the majority of these crimes.” Sgt. Starkey estimates 60 to 70 percent of the sexual assaults his detectives investigate involve an assault by someone the victim knew. Hilary Peele’s case does not happen to fit into that category. But when she was raped in 2004, it dispelled what she believes is the biggest myth: “That it can’t happen to me.” Peele says many women feel that way because they avoid parties and risky places, and stay at home with doors and windows locked. She had done that the night a stranger broke into her Tempe apartment and raped her. Peele and Houde point to other myths that are common. Some people think it’s mainly young women who are attacked, but sexual assault can happen to the elderly, to juveniles and even to men. Another myth is that the victim must have done something wrong, either inviting the attack or not being careful enough. Peele says, “I still get questions about what I would have done differently” even though she took all the logical precautions. Some information on the internet suggests that women who wear their hair a certain way or wear certain kinds of clothing are more likely to be the target of a predator, and that most rapes occur during a span of a few hours late at night. Houde, Peele and Markey agree, there are no such predictors of the risk of sexual assault. Houde says another myth about rape ignores the violence and assumes it is simply about sex. She says that myth is wrong on both counts.Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2009/03/24/20090324rapemythwebbonus-CR.html#ixzz1REgu9sJJ

I'll try to answer some. Do you all agree that we can bring problems to ourselves some times?Sometimes yes.  If I don't do my work at work then I'll be in trouble, if I drive wrecklessly than I can cause an accident.  If I walk alone at night than I run the risk of someone attacking me, however that doesn't mean the person has the RIGHT to attack me.    From where the word immodest dress came?Immodestus is a Latin word orginating in the mid-1500's, meaning unrestrained or immoderate.  Not sure where the word dress originated from but it means:an outer garment for women and girls, consisting of bodice and skirt in one piece. 2. clothing; apparel; garb: The dress of the 18th century was colorful. 3. formal attire. If you put them together they form the phrase immodest dress.Which could mean anything, but technically it may mean an unrestrained bodice and skirt.    Why some women decide to wear immodest dress?   Immodest dress is a very subjective term.  Modesty is really in the eye of the society, and modesty varies from culture to culture.  So what may be immodest to one culture is modest to another.  Why some men say X people do not know if they something bad to some women then other men say Y might do the same for X people mothers or sisters?   I have no idea what you are talking about.  Do we need to see written "It is sunny" to know that the weather is sunny when we are in an open park? Depends.  Are we under trees?  Am I blind?Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1933396?page=1#ixzz1REgFDfbP

so is killing but that hasnt stopped Western Christian Nations

Mmmmmm pork

SA, now please tell me what is your opinion on the post I wrote a bout respect?Oh, and no religious quotes plese. I am interested in YOU opinion, not that of books or scholars.

ok SA...here you go 1.yes, that is possible.BUT, what a woman wears should NEVER be the cause for any problems. 2.I do not know.Plus, the word in itself is subjective. 3. What a woamn wears is her choice, nobody has the right to judge. 4.I do not understand what you mean.5.Genrally, no...blind people may need it written in braille.

here are they

Do you all agree that we can bring problems to ourselves some times?

From where the word immodest dress came?

Why some women decide to wear immodest dress?

Why some men say X people do not know if they something bad to some women then other men say Y might do the same for X people mothers or sisters?

Do we need to see written "It is sunny" to know that the weather is sunny when we are in an open park?

Killer, now its not a secret on QL. 

nomercythanks for clarifying, else i thought we are the only targeted viewer of these porns. :Pand agreed, no one has the right to rape a woman or man (very rear), no matter what does s/he wear.

I think the main point here is that of respect. How on earth can respect depend on what a person wears? Can one be more superficial than that??It really troubles me to see, day in day out, that respect is measured out on items of clothing to be worn or not...does that sound ridiculous? To me it sure does!

My point SA is that if a man wants sex, there are many ways to get it that don't involve rape. 

AD, of course do European men watch porn...in fact, I don't think you will find many men anywhere in the world who do not.BUT, watching porn does not make,or should not make, men regard women who are scantily dressesd as whores or porn actresses ...and even those women are not "asking for it" because they desire it..they are supplying a service, that's all. No matter what women do or dress like, no man has the right to rape them. Period.And the idea of women who dress "sexy" are putting themselves in danger is wrong. There should not be any danger for them at all.What...are men beasts with only primal instincts? Has evolution bypassed them? I surely hope not!

Having sex is not the only thing in life,

See I will speak about a normal couple who are married and having a son 23 yrs old, do you think these couple would like their son to have a good wife and live with her or look for prostitutes every weekend?

I am sure that a normal person will never ever like his son to have an affairs with a prostitute.

We say in Arabic if the father is drum player, then the people in the house most probably will be dancers.

SA, although I do not understand how and why it matters in this case, NO, I would not want my daughter to be working in that capacity. Why? Because she will be prone to disease, abuse and men who think she is worth less than other women.Plus, I do belive that sex and intimacy should be a private matter between 2 people.

SA if all a man wants is sex, and he doesn't have a wife or girlfriend or willing partner, he can go and buy it from a prostitute.  He doesn't have to rape someone.  He doesn't have to figure out a way to get them in an isolated area, he doesn't have to rip their clothes off and violate them, he doesn't have to beat and hurt them.  He can pay them and be on his way.  Raping a woman requires the kind of effort and planning that pedophiles put into finding their victims.  It's not about sex, it's about having power over someone and hurting them.   Just like a pedophile doesn't care what his victim looks like, so long as they are easy to get to and the right gender, neither does a rapist. 

But I am also sure that you agree that some children are more grown up than adults and vice versa, your fingers are not the same LLP.

A wise man LLP will choose the appropiate method to deliver information or do things.

Doing things in a right way is safer, and more effiecien, even if takes more time.

Some things appear to be more practical, but when you do them you might harm your self.

Do you all agree that we can bring problems to ourselves some times?

From where the word immodest dress came?

Why some women decide to wear immodest dress?

Why some men say X people do not know if they something bad to some women then other men say Y might do the same for X people mothers or sisters?

Do we need to see written "It is sunny" to know that the weather is sunny when we are in an open park?

It depends who you are talking to, SA. Children need apples, some people, however, can follow abstract ideas and logic.

for example to explain division for his teacher, they always say people understand better by example and I agree examples must be realistics and reasonable.

"If", "if", "if", "if". SA, time to talk about reality!

Sorry LP, I don't think that's enough of a similarity to justify comparing a woman's rape to a wreckless driver.

so porn are bassically created for others, europeans don't bother to watch it? 

If you have a daughter would like her to work in the striptease business and prone channels? If no please tell why.

Or do you want her to be like a nurse or doctor or a lawyer, or a teacher for example?

pilgram, both give you a sensation, an adrenalin shock!

How can you compare driving your car off the road with rape?  The road doesn't rear up and throw you off?  The road can't attack you?    That metaphor makes no sense. Men rape women for many reasons, but sexual attraction isn't one of them.  Rape is a power thing.  

nomerci, it seems that porn channels are interesting for SA, whereas people in my country yawn at those. They are there all the time. Nobody cares except some sickoes. But they would do what they do also without these channels!

You have to blame yourself, SA. You were driving to fast!!

SA, and you do not think that how some young men were brought up by their parents  makes the most distictive difference on how they regard women?Furthermore, porn channes/shows etc. are not indicative on how women are generally regarded, at least where I come from. Maybe this is not the same in your culture...and maybe THAT is what needs to be corrected.

The problem is that most men exert self control, however, many men are teetering on the edge and the sight of a bit flesh can push them over the edge.  An edge that they would find extremely hard to return from.  Men are very much turned on by what they see.

You want to test a mans self control when hes lost it? ask your man for a diamond ring just before he reaches orga$m with the threat of not continuing.  Youll get what you want.

Before anyone accuses me of saying women deserve it if they provoke it, let me state that no woman deserves it.  However, they can take steps to minimise the risks.

Here is my voice,

A woman should not be raped for what she wares, and the evidence is that some rapist rapes both women who ware moddest dress and immodest dress, not all men minds are the same, however, these men feelings are different some of these men got excited because of the eye look which some women give to them, some men got excited because of the dress.

Rape in my opinion is a result of different things, and one of these things which plays a major factor are the sex channels which makes the women so cheap, when young boys watch these channels then some of them will get first addicted and then some will try to rape a woman which they might see in the street.

No one answered my question, here is another question for you specifically Pilgram:

If you are driving your car and there is a big clear sign 1 km away in front of you and it is written road end in your language, but you decided to go and you got hit by a train and you are taken to hospital suffering some critical injuries who will you balme?

And I would not say that...Pakistan is a Rape free country....but I'll repeat my words once again....Pakistan is still a heaven in this regard

There are few...who have been a victim...its really sad but as per my expereience I my self have never heard/seen/witnessed (Godforbids) any rape victim in the whereabouts of my homeland ....and thats why we donot have to follow the silly example of India by protesting the slutwalk drama

Oh God please guide them....Kareena and other muslims u said so much on the knowledge based on News channels etc....what about the teachings of Islam...will u deny that being a muslim women we are obliged to cover up...and its been proven millions of times that the teachings of Islam....including dressing up modestly is for our own good.

Any rapist is a mentaly sick person and yes there are thousands of cases out there where babies and older women were been raped for no obvious reason but if a young attractive woman walks around showing off herself ...partiying with male friends....some of them dressed up in a manner to invite unwanted atttention she is taking a risk...a big one!

for 1 min donot consider yourself a muslim(NAUZUBILLAH) and think logically...... These are social norms that ...at a public place lets say office/college/hospital women who's covered up,dressed up modestly and a half naked women who will be treated respectfuly? those men who are outthere for evil...whom they will put their eyes on too??

The big percentage of rape or any such crimes happens to females who are not following the social norms....others are just unfortunate...this is the reason that at times courts, legal authorities or police advise them that the dress code does contribute towards a certain behaviour.

a slutwalk is another stupid...example of that....why u dress up like a slut and be an eye candy? rather than protecting yourself.......we have risk managers in every company......Risk Management is on the boom.....but some says that.....No No we are not ready to take a risk with fire or chemicals but yaa...we will certainly walk uncovered showing off our assets be shameless in order to be accepted by the society?? and this way they will be prone to rape?? I feel sorry for those girls who are ready to take such risks

No SA.  I do not believe that anyone can do anything that makes them deserve to be raped.

Because the theory is already proven wrong by practical studies.

Do you agree that some people can bring problem to the selves?

In my opinion, the woman who dress immodest brings more attention some times and not always and this will bring problem to her self.

Same for men also, some straight man who are loyal to their wives will not get attracted to women who dress immodest, ok there might be slight attraction from these men towards these women and will not go to rape.

Rape is caused by many factors and some of these factors are mintioned in my above post. 

ROFLING.  So you're agreeing with radical feminists are you SA?  That's a first.

The sex industry and rapeFurther information: Social effects of pornography, Anti-pornography movement, and Extreme pornography

The relation between the sex industry (pornography, striptease, live sex shows, prostitution, etc) and rape has also been discussed. Radical feminists charge that the acceptance of these sexual practices increases sexual violence against women, by reinforcing stereotypical views about women, who are seen as sex objects which can be used and abused by men, and by desensitizing men; this being one of the reasons why radical feminists oppose the sex industry. They argue that pornography eroticizes the domination, humiliation, and coercion of women, and reinforces sexual and cultural attitudes that are complicit in rape and sexual harassment.

[edit] Feminist theories of rapeThe feminist theory of rape is summarized by Susan Brownmiller's statement: "rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear".[17] It asserts that some feminists see the male domination of female in socio-political and economic domains as the ultimate cause of most rapes, and considers male-female rape to be a crime of power that has little or nothing to do with sex itself.[16] Empirical testing of this proposition has shown it to be false though: a study comparing 14 indicators of male dominance and the incidence of rape in 26 American cities found no correlations, except one where greater male dominance actually decreased the incidence of rape.[18] Social learning theory of rape is similar to the feminist theory and links cultural traditions such as imitation, sex-violence linkages, rape myths (e.g., "women secretly desire to be raped"), and desensitization to the core causes of rape.

source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_Rape

We as people can bring problems to our selves!! If one boy say 18 yrs was advised not to go a gay destrict in one country because he might be raped and this boy did not listen and decided to go, and then he went and got raped and he came back crying I got raped, who should he blame?

This gay district is legale in the country he is living in.

and thus the cabbage - tinku series started :P

I'm not convinced that SA CAN read Tink.  But it's a slow day at work and my morning sickness is kicking up the dickens and making me cranky.  So might as well argue for a bit. :)

(nods) can see where you are coming from :-)

None of those links say that what the woman is wearing has anything to do with her being raped SA.

Saw it and thought you know what - let him bury himself ;-)

link1

http://www.gmu.edu/depts/unilife/sexual/brochures/WorldStats2005.pdf

link2

http://www.rape.co.za/index2.php?do_pdf=1&id=875&option=com_content

link3

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

link4 (The best)

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/Worldswomen/WW2010%20Report_by%20chapter(pdf)/Violence%20against%20women.pdf

I agree.

I think the summary of this topic shows that the women in Canada and India get no respect because of the immodest dress.

I believe that those who dress immodest to be treated differently from those who dress moddest dress.

This shows that also the culture in Indian and Canada and other Western countries is that women who dress immodest are the source of problems.

If some men are petrol and some of those women who dress immodest dress are spark then there will be fire and how big is the fire we do not know.

People who say that the dress of women has nothing to do with attraction actually have no respect to the woman herself, because they think that the woman is a mechanical device and that men are also machines and have no feeling.

I am sure that most men get attracted to the women because of different things and dress is one thing which gives attraction, those men who are not attracted to women are.........

Now tell me would the father like the son who obeys and do not make any kind of trouble or he will like more the son who makes always troubles and violations.

The normal father ofcourse will like the son who obeys him and makes no troubles, and will try to help his other son to become good and obey him and makes no trouble.

A person who does a good job should always be treated better than those who make no good work.

It happens quite a lot actually - women do cry rape - usually to cover up the fact they had sex with somebody they should not have or revenge :-(

This is indeed true and that is another epic debate lol 

Check out the site for Dawn News or Geo News and compare it to NDTV and Times of India.. You will see that there is absolutely no freedom of press in Pakistan..  These kind of news do not get reported most of the time.. Even that Gay parade article which Frenchie posted this morning appeared in Times of India but not in Dawn news..

Its a very difficult area.. There have been many cases of women also crying rape - when none occured.

I understand the meaning behind the walk.I am trying to look at the bigger picture - we know all cases should be taken seriously but we know that a lot are not.I say, a better way would be to stop the defence team trying to influence a jury by inferring the woman 'deserved it' because of what she was wearing or how she was behaving.Women dressed as sluts; although an admirable show of unity will have little impact on how these women are treated in court.We have proved in this debate that how women dress has little to do with rape.The raped woman needs protecting in court from ruthless defence teams who are determined to get their client off at the expense of the victim.  

The aim is to draw attention to the issue and bring awareness to people.  The protests have spread from Canada around the world and we are talking about  them on a forum in the Middle East.  Obviously they are working.

There are different types of rapes. Sheep get raped, but they don't wear tu-tus..

I mean a 6 month old baby or a 5 year old child or a 16 year old school girl or a 75 year old woman.. The girls probably did not even know what is sex let alone attracting someone sexually on purpose. Most of the cases that were reported on the website were poor or middle class women and I can hardly imagine them wearing tank tops and mini skirts..

Cases about minors being raped and even old grandmothers, it makes me wonder how come there are no such cases in my country.. I can only come up with one answer.. That it does not get reported.. period.. Men are the same everywhere.. India or Pakistan.. A border does not make the difference in man's nature.. But government policies do make a big difference.. I am sure it happens in my country as well but they just don't report it.. Baat ko daba dete hein.. Or maybe parents are too ashamed to report to the police lest their daughters get badnaam and then no one would marry them..I can't think of any other reason.. Tooba and Salmanyousuf, please don't say that all men in Pakistan are saints and rapes do not happen there..

We are talking different topics now.

The way the legal system works , the mode of dress , sorroundings, body language, conversations etc will always be brought up trial.

The main aspect of the Slut Walk is to get the message accross that ALL reports of rape should be taken seriously and not ignored. 

There is no justification for any of it.If these so called 'upholders of the law' and parents 'allow' these horrible acts - what good will a 'slut walk' do?Going back to the original point of this OP - the police were giving the girls a 'friendly warning' - like a father would to his daughter. OK the dad may not have used the term 'slut'.If we know what a woman/child wears has no bearing on the outcome then should our efforts not be directed to changing how the legal system works?I happen to think that what a woman was wearing when she was raped should never be discussed or brought forward as evidence - the victim is then on trial and this is what is wrong.I am all for fighting for just causes - but I think we need to pick our battles carefully and this is why I don't think these 'slut walks' will have an impact. 

For the links that you posted and I read many more on NDTV .. I am really shocked at the number of rapes in India, not just in Delhi but all over.. Why is that happening? Have you  noticed something? Mojority of rapes cases are among the poor people.. You will hardly see a girl from a well to do family get raped. What does it mean? Poor people cannot afford safety and security for their women? I really feel sorry for these Indian women, seems like no one i safe whether it is a 6 month old baby or a 75 year old woman.. Terrible.

It's a mad, mad, mad world we live in.

They don't make a nice read do they :-(

Re the article-I don't know why the journalist said this -The Oxford English Dictionary defines slut as ‘a woman who has more than one sexual partner’.The word 'slut' is derived from a the term slattern - which means a slovenly woman and a sloven is a person who is neglectful of their appearance, hygiene or work.The term slut is very modern.

"Yeah Pilgram - probably she was showing her cute butt thru her diaper...." That was probably the case with the 75 year old as well. 

That 6 month old was obviously dressed like a slut Tinker.  Wanton hussy.

Unfortunately, Tinker, I am sure some are asking themselves "how were these women dressed?" and "why were they walking alone?"  :-(

Interesting read ..

http://zeenews.india.com/entertainment/blogs/blog219.htm

No you wouldn't your an man, a selfish man! Your government should imprision men for rape. Its all about self control and dominance, sex is not what rape is about! 

Rape is not an act of desire but accually an act of dominance, so ihad from experts.

BTW, when I say YOU cannot rape her - the You is a general thing, does'nt mean you Salman :-) Don't get me wrong there. Cheers.

Oh my god sumone;s mouth is just big as her butt :(

oh my god..women have breats, behinds, thighs and so and so forth. This how we are made. Do we really need to hide our bodyparts to avoid being gossipped about, slandered and raped???? And when I say hide, I mean cover them so that no shape or form is visible at all ( just in case somebody suggests nakedness..again ;) I think one should give most men a bit more credit. Of course, those where evolution has not quite arrived,well, different story, obviously.

Salman : showing assests... A woman who is looking for male attention as such will in all probablity behave that way. But even a prosti...has a right.If she says NO you just cannot rape her. Mostly women dress in some manner because may be they feel confident or for ease of movement or whatever..They don't dress to attract men. In all female organizations also they will dress the way they want to - for THEMSELVES. Women are not obssessed solely with the idea to please men.

As for the claims made by men as an excuse to sexually abuse women it is just pathetic. If she is really inviting a man suggestively she will never cry rape later.

Yes they are - to a man that views women as pieces of meat and has no self control. She may not have been winking (she may have had something in her eye) and also who is to say what is the provocative movement of legs.  

mom_me said above

"or she winked at them hence inviting trouble or perhaps she moved her legs provocatively"

dont you think these all are invites?

both genders are responsible for rapes, sometimes its because of men sometimes its because of womenRead more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1933396#comment-1919217#ixzz1R3BNo8VjCan you please give me an example (just one will do) where a woman deserved or was responsible for her being raped.Thank you :-)

i have also mentioned above that showing ur assets is not respectful! believe it or not fact is a fact and women are discussion topics if they are dressed up like this and the ones who are not are rated more as decent ... "A General Opinion"

Salman, cabbage did mention somewhere up there that the whole protest started when a canadian policemen made a comment blaming women for the abuse. As for the clevage, depending on the culture and upbringing men will behave/think in  different ways. As for woman she may be dressing in this manner NOT for the men but for HERSELF.

no one is talking about swim suites in office! if a woman is coming to work and everyday she is showing her cleavage to her colleagues with her revealing clothes what will you expect? even though there are no sex maniacs in her office and she is not raped but what reputation she will get and what gossips will be there in her office? gossiping is human nature no matter a man or a woman does it!

even in a western culture she will be a hot topic of discussion!

By the way, men have claimed that they raped a woman because she looked at them suggestively, or she winked at them hence inviting trouble or perhaps she moved her legs provocatively. So attitude change for such men who put the blame on victim.

Salman, the so called walk is just for a day - or some time. It is a way to protest - to shock those who believe that women (victims) are themselves responsible for rape or abuse because of the way they dress. It's not an advertisement to dress in that way everyday. Who can go about their work dressed in a swim wear ? No one has a right to abuse a woman because of the way she is dressed. The message is clear.

i am not saying there are no rapes in my country ... men and women both should be educated to avoid such situations ... like ... for women how to do self protection and for men how to do self control.

both genders are responsible for rapes, sometimes its because of men sometimes its because of women

here we are talking about 'SLUTWALK' something related to women ... so the topic is ... is it good for women to reveal their body or its better to cover it up!

obviously revealing body will let men notice more ... get arroused ... and consequence can be bad if u r being noticed by a sick maniac!

rapes where men are reason we can have a separate topic for that!

So I take it there is no such thing as rape in your country then?

i think the debate is going into wrong direction ... the point is what are the chances of getting raped if you are covered and if you are not.

i agree with tooba on 'there is no distinction between a better or worst rapist' a rapist is a rapist and he should get the punishment of his acts.

but its quite clear a revealing dress will have a bad impact. girls at home do not wear such dresses in our society then why there is an urge to wear such dress outside ... just to show their own assets? if u r going to show your assets then someone will have the urge to use those assets!

self protection is the best thing either its a man or a woman!

Are you saying that any woman who is not fully covered is open to attack?I personally shudder when I see my daughter going out dressed sometimes the way she does (she is in the UK) - however she is following the trends. She actually looks quite modest compared to some. I can remember having similar arguments with my Mum.Nobody is denying that how women dress can bring on unwanted attention.Unwanted attention is one thing - rape is another. I think there are degrees of rapists (not the crime) but the men that rape.If a man rapes a woman because she was 'asking for it' he is a bullying control freak. If a man rapes because he is a sociopath (and most rapists are) he does so because he sees no wrong in what he does regardless of who the women is, how old she is, where she comes from or what she is wearing.What about rapists who target elderly women? What about men that rape Nuns? What about men who rape men?This is not down to what women wear, it is down to how the law sometimes treats the victim - and that means sometimes the victim is put on trial the same as the criminal.That needs looking at more than the clothing aspect.

At the moment India is debating about the use of term 'Slut' as it is pejorative term.

Kareena, if I remember correctly the lady news readers on the Pakistani TV channel cover their heads with duppatta. So definately it is not happening in Pakistan.  (We in India wear salwars too. So this does'nt mean I don't respect the culture )

Tooba, the whole point of slut walk is to change the male prespective that women are asking for it. At the same time it does'nt mean women can wear a beach dress to the market place or  office. That would be provocative. The point is should a women cover her body from top to toe to save herself from men as well as 'save men from men themselves' as they are not able to control their feral instincts ?

Rapists have no self control and rapist are the worst people on earth there is no distinction between a better or worst rapist...........

no matter how much you deny the fact is a fact ....if a woman is covering up its for her own good ...if she choose to put herself on display then she could be treated in a nasty way

If a man rapes a woman because of what she is wearing - then I think he is the worst kind of rapist - that is maliceaforethought and not the mind of a sociopath who rapes because in his sick twisted mind  it is not against the  'social norms'.Women should be able to wear what they like - and yes sometimes negative attention is given. This is a small risk they are willing to take. It is not however an invitation to rape. This is the crux of this debate. 

"but u cant deny that he gets the invites to do so"Sure I can.  I absolutely deny that a woman dressing in any way invites the man to rape.  Obviously we have have different standards for what it means to be a man.  Part of my standard includes self-control.  I can appreciate a woman going topless at a Euro beach, but there is a big difference between that and wanting to rape her.  One is an erotic thought, the other is an act of violence.That anyone would even see nonconsensual sex as being at all arousing is bizarre.

hey u Juliemannin49....(lets hope you get raped) to whom u r saying that crap?

then you would know how vile it is to have a man using you and invading your body, you might under stand then you undeucated backwards idiot!

whaT excuses! I have been to kuwait and seen men dress obscene with skimpy shorts on see through dish dashers etc, why can't a women wear what she wants? why cant she out out, men need to learn some self control not excuses!!Your mothers and sisters should be able to go out as you do, they have the same rights they are human too.All men whi rape should be put in prison..if any man rapes my daughter i will cut off their penis and make them eat it...vile uneducated men!!

offcourse the man is at fault too as he makes such a dirty attempt but u cant deny that he gets the invites to do so....the revealing dressing is a big reason ...a real big reason

But some here are suggesting that in some way or another her behavior excuses to some degree the behavior of the man.  And that is atrocious.

Frenchieman...no one here is in support of rape...its just the even and odd of life that a half naked women is sending an open invite to everyone and a slutwalk is abs a silly idea to protest for the same

well she should be punished before she gets raped ... so she will know what consequences immodestly dressing up can bring to her!

SalmanYousaf--so should she be punished just for dressing immodestly or does she have to be raped first?

Is that your pick-up line at the local watering hole?

no one has a right to rape a woman for whatsoever reason ...  however, if a woman is dressed immodestly then she should be punished first like the soldier was punished and the rapist will definitely get his punishment!

It's all an animalistic 'mating game', frenchie, and some get 'mated'.

LP--Thank God we do not live under martial law.Kareena--she SHOULD be able to do as she chooses, but it would not be sensible to do so.  But at the same time, anyone who robbed her should be prosecuted for theft and the criminal should not be freed or given a reduced sentence on the grounds that she tempted him by wearing gold.

And why the hell would a woman wiggle her back in front of a man's nose? Doing it for herself? You make me laugh. Ha, ha, ha. Trust me, they put on their make-up for themselves. That's what you can hear all the time.

When I was in the air force, there was a case of theft of money. While the thief was punished, the soldier who left his money accessible and not locked was also punished for 'tempting' others to steal!

Similary a woman should not be dressed in gold and diamonds and go street shopping in a poor area..

I think some of us are missing the point here.  Would anyone here seriously agree with the following:  If a woman dresses immodestly, men have the right to rape her.  And they should not be punished for raping her.Of course it is common sense for woman not to dress as a "slut".  Just as it is common sense for a man not park his Bentley is poor neighborhood.  But if his car is stolen, it is still theft.

Yes, AD, and because they believe their classmate or neighbor dresses in a provocative way some boys think they have a right to take advantage.  And, unfortunately, so police agree.The point of these protests is to make a point and draw attention to their cause, and they've been successful.  We're all talking about it.  I'd rather they do this than throw rocks, burn flags, and chant racist, violent slogans.

my point is seconded ... lol

Oh Yes Kareena....the most imp thing is common sense and it also includes the dressing sense

another way to avoid such situation is ... DONT WEAR REVEALING CLOTHES

statistics shows, that most of the rape cases happened among known people, and usually at daylight.

But the most important thing is common sense.. Whenever I watch some rape scene in movies or television, the first thing that comes to the  mind is that is that girls stupid or what? How can a woman venture out alone at night that too in a dark secluded street? I think if women take care of themselves properly, the chances of them getting attacked will be very less.. IF women think it is ok for them to go out by themselves and drink all night at the pub and then come home safely middle of the night, then they are really stupid..Have you ever heard that a woman coming home from school or work in broad daylight was raped? Ok it might happen but chances are slim.. There is one rule of the thumb to avoid rapes.. The more the people on the streets, the less the chances are but the less the public on the streets, the more the chances are of being harrassed.. So avoid going out late or dark secluded places.. Always keep on main steets and heavily crowded areas..

Rapes were not that common because women did not leave their homes alone without being accompanied by a male family member which is mehram in Arabic and in chaperone in English.

totally agreed with tooba!

Kareena ... standards of decency will differ from society to society ... we are from Paksitan and living in Qatar ... so if we have to follow any society norms it should come from either paksitan or qatar ... even a girl wearing a jeans and a top but she is covered properly ... i dont think so there is any harm in that ... again the definition of decency will differ from person to person ... and i have given the exemple in same situation which girl will become the first victim of the DOGS!

No one has a right to rape....but a slut is an open invite to the dogs out there ......and a women covered in veils or either modestly dressed up is atleast making an attempt to be safe

yes Kareena.....I am saying exactly that and its quite sensible to understand that a half naked slut will be treated as a slut and a women who dresses up modestly will be getting a modest/respectful treatment

these are the even and odds of life...u cant deny them ....there could be one in a million chance of the unexpected

This all started because a Canadian policeman told a group of students that "dressing like sluts" might put them in danger of assault. Notice the use of the word ‘might’. Could it not be said the Policeman was trying to say – come on girls we know what men are like – cover up a bit’? As a father may say to his daughter as she flounces out off the door half dressed (in his eyes)? Rape is the violent act of a sociopath; you could go mad trying to work out whether your skirt, hat, wonky tooth or similarity to his mother might trigger it.Discussing victims' clothing is a stupid, illogical irrelevance. Most men- cast an eye over a scantily dressed woman – imagine a scenario and move on from it. The girl who is dressed in this way – sometimes is glad she has caught the attention of the man. But I'm not sure that protesting against that isn't an illogical irrelevance as well. QED, it's not rapists who think skimpy outfits are a contributory factor. It's just lazy-minded cultural observers, tweakers of net curtains. . They're annoying, but they're not dangerous.  

Kareena ... give same circumstances to both girls ... i am not saying that the girl who is coverd will not be victim of the dogs outside there but in same circumstances whose chances are more to get raped? anyone can answer this!

Salman different countries have different culture. In Qatar for instance, a woman who wears a abaya with veil and naqab will consider a woman wearing abaya with shella but no naqab a very indecent woman.. Whereas a woman wearing abaya and shella will consider a woman wearing jeans, top and hijaab a very indecent woman.. Similary that woman will consider another woman without hijaab a slut.. So it all depends where you are coming from.. There is as such no criteria of decency when it comes to a dress code.. Every country has its own dress code.. But that does not give anyone the right to go around raping women just becoz he considers she is indecently dressed..

I agree with you totally. Whilst I must say their cause is right, somehow the whole "dressing as a slut" bit seems too much. For one thing I do not support calling a woman a slut based on how she's dressed and for another I feel they may very well simply serve as eye candy to bystanders than actually reach out to those who they are protesting against.

What you are saying is that if a woman is covered from head to toe and goes out alone on a street at night, she won't get raped whereas a woman dresses up in a mini skirt and goes out on broad daylight will get raped?

Ok Dear...FathimaH ....now I got it

just one exemple ... if there are two identical twins ... and very pretty ... and one is dressed up decently and the other one is dressed up with very revealing clothes ... and they both are walking on the street ... whose chances are more to get raped?

I wasn't speaking about Pakistan..I was speaking about Sri Lanka. SL ya'ni Sri Lanka not Pakistan! 

Britexpat...I am just refering to the comments written by (Kareena) she is abs wrong that Pakistan will follow the silly examples of India everytime something happens....

whereas when we look towards the main topic.... its so obvious that if someone acts like a slut she will be treated like a slut....something as bad as a rape can happen to anyone in bad circumstances (Godforbids) but a sensible woman will know how to dress up in public...these things are a big big reason for such incidents

Peanuts and karak chai time.

I know this and understand fully the point they are making. Good for them if it works.We know that women who are dressed in a reserved manner get raped too.I know the point is - we should be able to wear what we like and not be attacked and if we are - it should not be down to what we wear.This is true - but we know this is not how it works and women dressing as 'sluts' will not change the mindset of those that think this way.There are even female law makers who think women who are attacked whilst wearing skimpy clothes 'ask for what they get' - so if some women think like that - think of an old goat male judge - is he going to change his mind just because some women march dressed up as sluts?I don't think so.

some ultra modern activist will came out from caves, hardly few hundred will go on walk, will take some coooooool drinks, will have photo sessions and thats it.

What happened to her was sad...really inhuman but why the hell nobody seems to forget Mukhtara Mai and what SalmanYousaf has said is right....such incidents are happening every minute in US and its happening too often in India as well....but no... no... its nothing like that in Pakistan

Oh for goodness sake. Forget about rape rates etc. They are just trying to highlight an issue regarding the perception of Police to their plight. 

Bobcorn and bebsi time.

regarding argument of rapes ... just check the rape rate in US ... reports say in every one minute 2 women gets raped in US ... is the condition that bad in pakistan? i dont think so!!!

They are trying to send the message that "even if we dress like sluts in your opinion, we still deserve the right to be treated fairly and heard fairly under the law"

I will agree with tooba on this ... i am not saying such things don't happen in our country but still we should it and specially protests of these kinds ... though Shariya is not properly implimented in our country till now still this is against our religion ... and adultery and alcohol are banned in every religion of the world and such protest comes in the brackets of adultery.

just check the rape rate in US ... reports say in every one minute 2 women gets raped in US ... is the condition that bad in pakistan? i dont think so!!!

to protest against 'rape' - the sterotypical views of some regarding what women dress like and protesting whilst dressed as a slut is not one of them.  

I will agree with tooba ... nothing like this is going to happen Pakistan. Shariya people will never let it happen. Our country is not free of different types of crimes but still this is not gonna happen. In every religion adultery and alcohol are banned its just we follow it or not and such type of protest is audltery in one way or the other.

our country is not clean alot of stuff happens every day and every night but we should try not to promote it and should discourage such type of activities

My beloved country Pakistan is still not in need for such a mass protest and then in particular a protest of this kind...no way!

Mukhtara Mai incident happened in 2002 .... 9 years back...and in these past 9 years just compare the percentage of rape incidents b/w Pakistan and India

I dont care if u beleive me or not but you go through the news and views along with the statistics and Pakistan is still a heaven in this regard

The Slutwalk protests are geared mainly at the law enforcement agencies and not the public at large.

Kareena, what ever happened with Mukhtar Mai was wrong, but did you read the Report of Supreme Court, when they Released Culprits, only one of them was sentenced to 10 years in prison...... 

That no one gets raped in Pakistan? Is Pakistan a rape free country? Is Paksitan the safest country in the world for women? Haven't you read or heard about Mukhtar Mai's case where she was gang raped in front of the entire village?

Kareena..Pakistani people donot need this type of Protest module....and by the way FAthimaH..... nothing in Pakistan go unnoticed...we are under the radar for fortunate and unfortunate reasons.

But like most things that happen there it will go unnoticed..lol

And I love my country.. I was not pointing fingers at it.. I just said that because India has done it, now Pakistan will do it too.. You know how things have always been between the two countries.. A lot of competition.. When one does something, the other follows in the foot step or does something even better.. I was just making a statement,

@Kareena

Well, No One Is talking about Pakistan and i don't think i can find any single word about Pakistan in this. I Don't know why you guys are so jobless and always pointing against Pakistan. And Don't Worry It Wont happen In Pakistan.

Let's hope so.  We need more of these sorts of demonstrations to highlight chauvinist attitudes in the police forces.

And I am sure if that happens, it will be in Karachi.

And here I am thinking maybe we get to see some good tricks walking by :-(