Don't let them eat cake, Saudi cleric says
Southland posted this link on another topic, so i hope he doesn't mind that i paste here the article he provided link.
" RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - When Hala al-Masaad invited her girlfriends over to celebrate her 18th birthday with cake and juice, the high school student was stepping into an unusual public debate. Is celebrating birthdays un-Islamic?
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Saudi Arabia's most senior Muslim cleric recently denounced birthday parties as an unwanted foreign influence, but another prominent cleric declared they were OK.
That has left al-Masaad with mixed feelings about her low-key celebration last month. She loves birthday parties because they make her feel she has "moved from one stage of life to another."
"But I sometimes feel I'm doing something haram," she said sheepishly, using the Arabic word for banned.
The Saudi ban on birthdays is in line with the strict interpretation of Islam followed by the conservative Wahhabi sect dominant in the kingdom. All Christian celebrations — and even most Muslim feasts celebrated elsewhere in the Islamic world — are prohibited as alien customs.
Only the Muslim feasts of Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of the holy fasting month of Ramadan, and Eid al-Adha, which concludes the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, are permitted.
The latest controversy started when a prominent cleric, Salman al-Audah, said on a popular satellite TV program last month that it is OK to mark birthdays and wedding anniversaries with parties as long as the Arabic word "eid" — feast — is not used to describe them.
That comment prompted a quick denunciation by Saudi Arabia's top religious authority, Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheik, who said such celebrations have no place in Islam and gave a list of foreign customs he finds unacceptable.
"Christians have Mother's Day, an eid for trees, and an eid for every occasion," Al Sheik told the newspaper Al-Madina. "And on every birthday, candles are lit and food is given out."
There is no question the remarks by al-Audah contradicted religious edicts issued by senior Saudi clerics over the years.
One such ruling, by the previous grand mufti, Sheik Abdul-Aziz bin Baz, said Muslims should not emulate the West by celebrating birthdays — even that of the Prophet Muhammed, which is marked in most other Middle Eastern countries as a holiday.
"It's not permissible to take part in them," he said.
Yet, despite the continuous edicts against such parties, it's not hard to find stores that cater to Saudis who celebrate birthdays, anniversaries or even Western holidays like Valentine's Day.
Customers can browse albums showing birthday wall decorations, table settings and cakes, and order party bags with coloring books, pens and school supplies.
One popular party game features a life-size papier-mache mannequin of a cartoon or storybook character, such as Cinderella — much like pinatas at children's parties in the West. To get at the gift hidden inside, children take turns hitting it with a stick.
Buthaina Ba-Aqeel, 51, said she used to throw birthday parties at home for her children, but they were low-key and not on the same day the child was born — to avoid singling out one particular day during the year to celebrate.
Even that would be too much for Riham Ahmed, a 20-year-old economics major. "It's enough to have two eids," she said. "My birthday is a normal day. Even my parents don't congratulate me."
source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_birthday_contro...
what????
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
that must be Environment day
Sn/Md: lol
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Just turn it around, SN, and it will be allright.
hmm, just asking... :)
Oh for heavens sake stop getting the wrong end of the stick MD!
me, angry, mjamille? Never. I only wanted to express my conviction that there are some individuals who need to be shown the right way, because they have no brains to find it themselves, as platao suggested.
you getting angry there, MD? i hope not..
Guess, in some cases they even might be right, platao.
MD: Lol, they seam to think that we have no brains ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Words of wisdom, alex, "You do it, you don't do it...your choice." So WTF is there always somebody telling us what to do?????????????????????????????????????????????????
thanks, MD...
that's a good month, mj.
say what you want SN, i still think of birthdays that way..
MD, mine's March 23rd....
same with me, platao. My real age is 13.
MD: lol, i have decided that from now on i'll be 18, even if i look like having 80 ;)
Realsome: Just making ppl laugh with the birthday question ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
so, when is yours, mjamille?
mjamille, don't be silly! Birthdays are for infidels!
birthdays are reminders of the start of a new stage in life...they ought to be celebrated even in the simplest manners.
it's okay, real.. Not your fault. Enjoy your never ending youth.
there is one similarity and that is that all thoroughbred racehorses' birthdays are the 1st of the 1st!
I can't see any similarities between a high class race horse and ...., SN.
of course i know my age. i was never asked bday in school, i do have passport (imaginary bday written on it), country is failed state.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
and it would be ok to forget birthdays and save money on pressies!!How wonderful!
Alot of people from these parts put their birthday as 1/1/whatever year......incidently racehorses have the same birthday!
It must be wonderful to have no birthday. I wonder what you tell a girl, or your wife. I wonder how you can get a job. I wonder how you went through school? Did you attend class according to the wrinkles in your face or according to your height? I would love to change my passport with yours. Do you have one? Which country?
Well, someone has told me that the 1st week is the worst, :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Alhamdullilah Platao, thanks for asking, my Ramadan is going wonderful, the first days was bit hard as usual but now i think i am adapted.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
SL: Sure, np, just found it interesting and to preven people from missing it i got the full text from the source you refer, you deserve the credits of finding that notice.
Realsome: I'm fine thanks, how's your ramadan going?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I know, and why is it called "Adultery" anyway? Sheesh, and some of us wanna live forever!
lol southland your making me dizzy with that ?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Children are pure no matter what their background is before puberty.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
So what is it about the capability to create life, that causes us to then be tainted by it?
Children are forgiven up until that age.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Are you sure they didn't ;)
So children are pure until they can physiologically create more children? This is more a rhetorical statement, generalizing humanity as a whole.
Fasting and other Islamic worships depend on puberty and of course i also know my age its just the bday.
and also agency requirements are there so there is goverment picked date :) but not the real one.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
No blame, I just think it helps. We all have to process through various bureaucratic agencies throughout our lives and have to claim some starting point. Also, with regards to faith, how do you know when you are required to participate in certain observances (like fasting for Ramadan)?
SouthLand no records available for my bday. so it isnt my fault that i dont know it, but anyway i dont miss it.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
scratch it.
P36 - Thanks for the reference, I'm not sure that it is needed, as I was not the author.
Like I mentioned in my post, each child's birth should be a "Mother's Day".
RSO - Now I can respect the non-act of 'celebrating' birthdays, but I think knowing when you are born and keeping track of it is important.
I am with abu here in the sense of being fed up with the constant use of lame articles to discuss islamic beliefs. Who wrote this article anyway.. using the word wahabi is such an insult. Really I hate extremists who try to degrade a scholar clearly being straight about what is clearly disallowed in Islam just because a few people have fun and enjoy selfishness one day a year. OOh but it makes her feel so special!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
thanks Platao36 how are you doing?
Brit i dont see anything wrong with the article as long as people are willing to talk about it,whether it was posted earlier or not.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
lol salma :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
:)
NOt AgaIn....
These sort of articles need to be taken with a pich of salt. they are written to cause debate and disagreements..
The article clearly mentions that the last grand mufti "Sheikh Bin Baz" was against the celebrations. It then states "Saudi Arabia's most senior Muslim cleric recently denounced birthday parties as an unwanted foreign influence, but another prominent cleric declared they were OK."..
Ofcourse it doesn't give the name of the "other prominent cleric"..
I think its best not to take these types of stories too seriously ..
Realsome: lol, nice to see you back buddy ;)
Supernurse: Thanks, :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
OH! for heavens sake give the guy a break.....it was an interesting read so what is the problem with posting it?!
I believe celebrating birthday is unnecessary and unislamic, as for myself i dont even know my birthday :)
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Nazek: Thanks, at least me and Abu made some folks laugh.
Alexa: I don't hate Abu, just that we have different positions but better fight with words than with weapons :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
It's so funny reading a fight on line I was so bored u guys made me feel good sorry... i can't help it you make me laugh
That's Too Good ....
dirty blood comes out....:P
lol salma :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
:O
Y fiting lyk KIDOOOOS
Serious? oh, uau, you are so smart, i hope when i'm big i'm just like you.
Oh, wait, i'm older than you, but yes, you are right, i ain't even a quarter as sophisticated as you dream I am, i'm just more inteligent than you, now, go back to under the rock from where you crawled
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Well, am i asking anyone to comment it?
Now go, before i taunt you again
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
gUESS NO ONE READ WHAT I WROTE, I'M JUST POSTING A LINK THAT, sorry caps, Southland posted on the other topic.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
not again....GOSHH