British boy allegedly abducted in Qatar
This just in today's edition of the Peninsula:
"Mother alleges kidnapping of 10-year-old British boy
DOHA: Adam Jones (Fawaz Jamal Juma Abdullah) (pictured), a 10-year-old British national, has been allegedly abducted during his recent visit to Qatar with his mother.
Adam’s mother Rebecca Jones told The Peninsula that she and her family arrived in Doha on October 3 and the boy was abducted on the second day of their visit.
“Since then, I have not seen or spoken to my son and is deeply concerned about his safety,” Rebecca said.
A criminal case has been filed against the suspected kidnapper with the Qatari Public Prosecution office.
Rebecca, who evaded some key queries by this reporter, for fear of affecting the case pending before the Public Prosecution Office, said the accomplices to the suspected abductor contacted her once with an offer to allow her to see the boy. But they set the condition not to speak to the child that he was abducted. This has been reported to the authorities, she mentioned.
Adam’s biological father, a Qatari, died in a traffic accident in Bahrain in 2005. The boy has been living in Bahrain under the mother’s custody.
In a written statement to this paper, Rebecca said: “It is understood that Adam’s Qatari uncle filed a custody case with the Qatari Civil Court on October 5, 2009, stating that he had ‘General Authority’ from his mother, Adam’s 77-year-old grandmother, under the provision of Shariah Law.”
According to Rebecca the British Foreign Office and the British embassy in Qatar are also involved in the issue. The British Embassy’s Consular office contacted the suspected perpetrator to arrange a welfare visit with Adam; however no satisfactory agreement could be reached on the conditions of the visit. “The issue has been now brought to the attention of the Attorney General, Dr Ali bin Futais Al Mari,” she said.
The British Foreign Office, Ministry of Interior, and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs are being contacted by the British Embassy and the parents, to expedite the safe return of Adam."
I have two thoughts.
One: Funny how NOW the reporters understand the term "alleged" when it pertains to a local who is accused of kidnapping. Where was this understanding when they were reporting last week about the poor mother of the little girl who got run over?
Two: This is the one scenario that should give EVERYONE pause for thought when embarking upon a relationship with someone from another country/culture/religion. Just when you thought that the film "Not Without My Daughter" was sterotypical hysteria...
I cannot see how, when the boy's biological father has died, that his paternal uncle can expect to trump the boy's mother for custody (and especially not by simply kidnapping him). If he believes that the mother is unfit, he can try to prove it and take her to court.
[Mod Note: Thread locked due to a discussion gone bad]
I was busy enjoying my Eid holidayz and this is wht is happening on QL...
On humanitarian grounds - of course a Kid has to be with his parents.. in this case mother..
but as said n number of times.....
Qatar is NOT a democracy.
I agree with Bleu's points mentioned in her post of Wed, 25/11/2009 - 3:48pm...
Feel bad for the Kid though....
___________________________________________
Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it
Someone commented why isn't the British govt. doing more, its about MONEY they won't do much as they have a business relationship with QATAR. Just like America with Saudi, the US actually made an agreement with Saudi that they would stay out of their business if Saudi sold them oil at a reasonable price. The poor women will have to go it on her own with help from those of us who know the child should be with his mother who he has lived with for the past 10 years. I am glad she was recently allowed to see him it must be destroying her not to know how he is. The dead father is probably turning over in his grave at their disrespectful act. They could of had a good relationship with the boy and his mother instead chose THIS? Using a child like a pawn.
How can anyone justify taking a child away from their mother is beyond me. I cant even imagine what this mother is going through, let alone the child.
Pitstop, 7ayati, they are just jealous of our wealth. Ilhamdillah 3ala ilni3ma, alf il7amdillah wilshukur.. That's the difference between us. Sallam.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
I am not the least bit jealous of "your wealth" as I have seen first hand it cannot buy happiness, values or intelligence -- all of which are very important to me :-)
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
to people who don't believe in free speech to begin with and feel they are above the law? I see nothing at all wrong with them deleting the disrespectful posts of Adam's dead father's relatives. If they want to speak out, let them approach the medi or start their own fb group.
Why on erath would you hold others to a standard you are unwilling to maintain, qatar sugar?
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Are you blaming Sugar for Qatar having a small population? and you're disrespecting her for how Our courts and economy work? That's pathetic. Free cash handouts? Did I miss anything here?
You are a judgmental racist and if you had some self respect, you would choose your words before typing them. Shame.
Ok this is entertaining !!!
You guys should be up to date with what is happening in the Adam's support group on Facebook!! It is all being deleted .. talk about people accepting Freedom of Speech? Why are they deleting Fawaz's families posts?
Leave it for the world to read, right?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
The only tight space is in your head, Logic. From the way you respond I see you have no respect, so once you do manage to grow some respect, I'll be back to have a conversation with you.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Logic, as a mother, I make sure I have a healthy relationship with everyone in the family, from both sides - why? Because when I die or my husband dies, I want our families to be good to our children out of love for both of us. You are accusing me of things based on what you think is right and passing judgement, and honestly, I don't give a rats ass about what you think of the situation.
All you users are hiding behind screens lashing out when you have NOTHING to do with the whole situation. Moral support, good for you, of course you would be thanked for it, but be realistic here. If you are all worked up about it, why don't you call Fahad, or any of the other brothers and ask them why they are doing this.
The facebook group isn't going to bring Fawaz back to him mother.
Us as Arabs we understand the situation. You as whatever you are, want to force us to accept the stupid change - which isn't based on our belief and religion. It will never happen.
Inshallah in due course, Fawaz will be with his family.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
This thread has progressed in such an awkward way. Let me say, entertaining.
You are the only one taking sides in this situation.
PM, I laughed when I read little Marwa's comment on the facebook group. She seems to be misinformed and wanted to vent.
Logic, don't think everyone in the group is there to support the case. When people send invites, they join. Plus, 6731 members which most probably aren't even in Qatar and the % of Qatari's in the group are minority.
Lets hope for the best, for Fawaz's sake.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
In fact, the support is growing and the approach for the mother to get her son back has developed to tackle many fronts.
I found it amusing that a relative of the family posted such an arrogant remark to the mother of the child, but I chalked that up to her obvious immaturity.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
You all should follow what happens on the facebook page. It has surely cooled off after meeting Fawaz. Could someone have asked them to put a lid on it - at least for the time being?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
matters" are above the law. This is far from a family matter, Sugar Qtr. A Qatari man took a child from his mother against her will. The fact that you as a Qatari are happy with the status quo in which a man who commits such an act doesn't comply with the law and the local media doesn't give it any attention supports my hypotheses: Some Qataris feel that "family matters are above the law and don't want the media to report anything that might cast your culture in a negative light.
No I don't think Qataris are afraid of anyone or anything (and that is not the issue here). It is not about "being afraid"; it is about DOING THE RIGHT THING. The fact that you cast it in these terms shows your arrogance -- one shared by many of your countrymen and women, I am sorry to say. It reminds me of my fellow Americans who gloat about being the world's sole superpower; it is counter-productive.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I know people that work are the Minor Affairs place and they don't know about the situation. MOST if not ALL the people around me don't know about this situation. genesis it right about that.
Why should I demand our media to cover these events? Its a private family matter, and this does not mean that family matters are above the law, on the contrary. Each is a different party: Law, Family, General Public, and Media. There is a right way and a wrong way to tackle this, it over sensitive and some people are not realizing this.
I am not with or against the situation, but things need to be clear.
As for you ya PM, you want me to give up my culture and tradition to please the foreign population in Qatar? Do you really think we are afraid of anyone/anything? You have got it all wrong. You need to wake up and get out of your bubble before if blows up with you in it.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
I suspect it comes from the desire not to have Qatar seen in a negative light by the "outside world". Do you think Qataris will ever start demanding more from their media and be willing to accept criticism? I am curious to know what you think.
BTW, I know a number of Qataris who know about the story.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
this case is not covered by the mainstream media except for an article published on a Al-arab newspaper after the custody verdict. All what is written on newspapers are based on what the mother claimed,till this day no British or Qatari officials commented on the case or the trails.Even the story of the social worker was based on her post on FB. The case is not known to many locals as not even local Internet forums posted that till yesterday after a pan-arab electronic newspaper "Elaph" publish a story based on what's written on FB & the bahraini English newspaper.
population do not speak out against a family who has taken a child under these circumstances and refused to comply with the courts, then it DOES reflect on the people as a whole. Just like when my country has started wars that were wrong, it reflected on ALL Americans. That is why I was so adamant about speaking out and making sure that I represent MYSELF and MY VIEWS. It would certainly help if Qataris were willing to speak out against this situation if they don't support it. Unfortunately they do not seem willing (or able) to do so; and thus, you have it reflecting on your country and your culture. You simply can't have it both ways.
And Genesis, my friend: I suspect that there is quite a bot of distortion in this case as a whole but I really haven't seen any evidence that the mother is lying about anything. If you can provide proof I would love to see it because I would call her out on it. At this point I see people trying to demonize both sides/parties -- and frankly, in my view the uncle has been in the wrong from the beginning with the way he has handled everything. He could have made his case for custody through the courts and once that mechanism worked he should have agreed to generous visitation for both parties. He chose not to and I think that is partly because he sees this as a family matter that is BEYOND the reach of the law. His actions indicate that he is not to be trusted as a man of integrity and a man who can be counted on to keep his word.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
told that he was here because of a swine flu outbreak in Bahrain? That isn't a story the mother made up, Genesis -- it was reported in the newspapers as such. And that was only about ten days ago...
So if the family DID explain to the boy what was really happening, then it can only have happened within the last week or so. And seeing as they have had Adam for about two months now, that revelation (if it's true) still doesn't erase the fact that for 6+ weeks they lied to the boy and refused to allow him any access to his mother.
And to the best of my knowledge, no one has said they thought the boy was being abused by his Qatari relatives. Did I miss something?
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
More missing pieces..according to a relative, fawaz was well
Aware of his situation and this what Rebecca confirmed upon
Her meeting with him the boy is not abused, treated badly or
Lied to. again, the mother with her publicity stunt on facebook
Will loose any chance of coming to terms with the father's family.
Sugar Qtr, you're right - you, nor other Qataris, can be held responsible for this incident, and I hope that other local families are appalled by this case and the impression it gives to other nations.
I certainly do not judge the whole of Qatar on the actions of ONE family - that would be a sweeping generalisation that would reflect on me in a very bad light! I've lived in Doha for several years and enjoy my life here; I've also lived in several other diverse countries around the world, so like to think that I am open minded and a 'citizen of the world'. Live and let live - but if you believe something to be wrong, stand up and say so!
As you say, let's wish for a happy outcome for Adam/Fawaz - he's the most important person in this case, and his welfare must come first.
Dottie, it is a wonderful new day - Happy Eid and Thanks Giving to all.
I'm sorry you are feeling this way about Qatar, but if you are judging the Whole country because of this one incident, then you are being very judgmental. My family cannot be held responsible for what is happening to any other family in this country.
I'm glad Rebecca got to see Fawaz last night, and inshallah she will be seeing him again on Monday and many other coming days as well. We never know, she might fly back to Bahrain with him very soon. Lets hope for the best.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Irrespective of cultural differences (on which people will NEVER agree) let's not lose sight of the fact that there is a little boy caught up in this mess through no fault of his own. He will DEFINITELY be missing his mother - FACT. The uncle and his family are totally wrong to deny the boy access to his mother, and are breaking the law by not upholding the court order to allow visitation. Nobody should be above the law, but it seems in Qatar that the law courts move VERY slowly and - rightly or wrongly - to others it appears very much to be a 'them and us' society here.
I really, really try to be non-judgemental and fair-minded, but quite frankly, this whole sorry tale gives me a very bad impression of Qatar and its people.
Dottie, search in facebook for "Return Adam to his family in Bahrain"
What's the Facebook support group called?
Logic, age has nothing to do with drugs/alcohol/sex. Its all a choice.
Plus, why do you give a shit as to where I stand in this case? You are not Rebecca, Barrie or anyone from the Dad's side. Its enough that Rebecca knows.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
bleu, ya inshallah. Not even an enemy would accept what is happening. Inshallah they work it out for the kids sake. He doesn't deserve to be torn into two because of his families differences.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Sugar, this is great news, I hope both families keep it amicable.
bleu, aaaaah tinarfazt. Latest update, Rebecca is on her way to see Fawaz now. Lets hope for the best.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
LOL @ debate/argue.
Anyway, Happy Arafah, Eid, Thanksgiving, Black Friday (LOL), ... and everything else, to everybody. :P
Logic, I'm not sure if you've been high when I have been commenting to this thread or something. When did I say that I didn't want Rebecca to get Fawaz back? Please point it out, or get off my case. If you don't know how to debate/argue or whatever you want to call it, you might as well start learning how to.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
fubar,
I would advise him of the same, I think that Eid is a good opportunity to show their good intentions.
This relationship between these two families is destructive to both sides, and there's a boy stuck in the middle of the battle.
Why is no one advising Fahad to have a better relationship with the mother of this boy?
And how is it possible to put a postive (or even neutral) spin on the fact that Fahad is defying court orders and acting outside the law.
If he wasn't a criminal when he took the child, he is behaving like a criminal now. He is ignoring court orders. He is a bad man who doesn't deserve to raise his own children, and certainly doesn't deserve to raise Rebecca's.
I'll agree with bleu for now, as I had a looooooooooooooong day, and I'm not in the mood for this anymore.
- Keep restraining yourself from publicly badmouthing the family, keep calm, and please be patient. There's a solution to everything.
- I'd advise Rebecca to bring her family, and move here. I'm sure her husband can find good work here.
- Less media interest is better, it only makes things worse, the family here probably feels reluctant because of what she and her husband, and people here have been saying about them.
- I'd advise her to have a better relationship with the boy's guardians/Qatari family.
- Try to be there for the family, and your son. Right now, it's the only way that I see for you to be with him.
Goood Niiiiiiiight
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
are ABOVE the law. How disturbing for the poor mother and step-father. One would have hoped that if this family had good intentions and were decent Muslims they would have looked at the Eid as the perfect time to put things right. Shame on them.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
In a week's time he won't even be there. He will have moved house or left the country, knowing that this would be the next move Rebecca would be forced to take.
I hate to sound paranoid, but I recommend that Rebecca hire a private detective to keep tabs on the family and their movements.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Genesis, I don't we don't see eye to eye on certain issues, but I do know that you are a decent human with a white heart, unlike so many others commenting on this blog.
A sincere Eid Mubarak to you and your family.
This is the latest from the mother's Facebook page:
Dearest friends, i regret to inform you that Fahad refused to let me see my son even with a court order. We have spent the last two hours in the police station filing a complaint. I am totally heartbroken, he is a ruthless man. We know have to go back to the court a week on sunday to get the judge to write an enforc...ement order for us to take police with us to their house to force the visit. Rebecca
Fahad sounds like a total f...wit.
And in the process they're creating even more ill will and animosity for themselves.
One wonders how they can seen as trust-worthy guardians of the boy when they cannot even abide by a court order to allow his mother to see him for a measly 4 hours after nearly 2 months of no contact.
But Qatari courts are infinitely forgiving of their own, IMHO (and in my personal experience). He could probably flout many more court orders and they wouldn't do a damn thing other than to call ANOTHER hearing in another 2-6 weeks time to try again to set another visitation up, and he'd pull the same stunt.
My guess? Their aim is to wear Rebecca out, exhaust her financial resources, and drag this thing on for as long as possible, hoping that it slowly fades from people's radar and they get busy with other things, she loses popular support and resigns herself to not having her son and moves on with her life...so then they can say "see? your mom doesn't really want you, just like we told you...".
This sucks on so many levels...and on the eve of Arafat, no less.
I hope the uncle and family don't hold their breath as they pray for God's forgiveness.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
I could have told you the family would do something to deny the mother the chance to see her son. So far they have proven completely untrustworthy. Now it will be EID and the courts will be closed. Who knows if the boy is even still in Qatar.
I agree with Genesis.
You and I haven't always seen eye to eye, but you definately do cheer when necessary and boo when things are not being played out in a 'correct' manner!
Message from the QL Animal Section Editor:
Your post has been deemed ignorant.
You have been tracked.
Ready... Aim....
Congratulations... you have been Eliminated!
visit www.qaws.org
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
PM said When Qatar is right, I praise it. When Qatar is wrong, I'll point that out, too. You don't get one without the other.
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That's why i highly respect you & appreciate all your valid posts & great insight :)
Wish you a happy & peaceful Eid Vacation
I have given much more than I have received for my time in Qatar and daresay I have made a positive impact on countless lives. So don't give me that "you don't respect us" BS. The next thing I expect is you to say "if you don't like it, leave".
When will some Qataris learn that debate is healthy??? I realize you are probably used to living in your little silk cocoon where "this is just the way things are" but don't think that employing me in Qatar meant that I agreed to leave my brain back in the US and sign on wholesale to become another cheerleader for all things Qatari. When Qatar is right, I praise it. When Qatar is wrong, I'll point that out, too. You don't get one without the other.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
FUNNY!
This thread is going nowhere, I'll suggest each party of it open up their own discussion, and keep agreeing with each-other.
We are a group of strangers who know NOTHING, arguing about a boy, his mother, his families.... while we have NO influence on what happens.
If it makes you feel better to write about it here, go ahead, but it won't change a thing.
I'll restate what I personally see as obvious, and this is for Rebecca, if she reads this:
- Keep restraining yourself from publicly badmouthing the family, keep calm, and please be patient. There's a solution to everything.
- I'd advise Rebecca to bring her family, and move here. I'm sure her husband can find good work here.
- Less media interest is better, it only makes things worse, the family here probably feels reluctant because of what she and her husband, and people here have been saying about them.
- I'd advise her to have a better relationship with the boy's guardians/Qatari family.
- Try to be there for the family, and your son. Right now, it's the only way that I see for you to be with him.
they are probably not fluent bilinguals in English. I presume Adam is limited in his command of Arabic as he has been raised exclusively by his mother who is a native English speaker (even though he has been taking Arabic classes).
It's a difficult situation to thrust a child into.
Clearly Adam is surviving (and to my knowledge, no one has accused the Qatari family of abusing or mistreating Adam -- unless you see denying him access to his mother as abuse and mistreatment, which many people do). But again, given that a social worker was only recently given a brief visit to assess that fact, we don't know that he isn't crying out for his mother or asking about her regularly.
Personally I would hazard a guess that he IS asking about her. My own child often calls me at work on days I work late. Adam hasn't seen his mother for almost TWO MONTHS. I think it's safe to say he is wondering where the hell she is.
We do know (from the social worker's report of her visit)that he hasn't been told the truth about the situation, about how he will never again live with his family as long as his Qatari relatives have custody of him. Perhaps if they explained that to Adam, we would hear him crying out for his mother.
Then again, because the uncle has chosen to not talk about the situation at all, we don't know squat about Adam's mental/emotional state right now. The court here hasn't even required regular visits from the social worker, so there's no chance for authorities and his mother to hear updates about how he is adjusting to this new placement.
Their failure to do this reflects, to me, a genuine lack of concern for how poorly or how well Adam handles this situation -- which also demonstrates that they view this boy as an "object" to be possessed rather than as a young child whose life has just been turned upside down.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
PM, no one asked you to convert and to marry a Qatari. I know you are a Muslim now. Thinking that after all these years working in Qatar, you would learn to respect the land that hosted you for so long. What a shame!
Logic, good for you then that you don't live in Qatar. Why are you so involved? Human Rights --- get them involved. Common Sense --- we can't really judge as the other side of the story is still a mystery.
Inshallah Rebecca gets to meet her son today and she makes the best out of it.
ummjake, who says his family don't speak Fawaz's language? I know as a fact that the Uncles do speak English, so again wrong information given.
Everything that I have read and heard about this case made me feel like Fawaz would die without his mother. How is he surviving now then? If he was mistreated by his FAMILY, for sure he would cry out for his mother and wouldn't stop until he saw her. Is that even happening?
Lets not get too carried away until more information is surfaced.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
In the west. when you have been handed an injustice, shouting it from the rooftops is often the way to go because as more people hear about what happened, more people express their disdain for the situation, the pressure on the parties increases, bad publicity ensues until usually some better resolution is reached.
Here people seem to think you should be quiet and pursue things through private channels. But as Logic already pointed out, that hasn't seem to have helped much thus far. Earlier in private meetings Rebecca had with the family, the uncle granted access, then he yanked it away without providing a reason...so clearly he is not to be relied upon without the backing of a court order for enforcement.
Qatar authorities seems reluctant to get involved very much (as they do in any family matter here -- don't get me started on THAT topic, it's a whole nother thread...), so she really can't rely upon them to be advocates for her son.
The embassies are a joke. They're not here to serve citizen's interests. They're here to promote business relations and the like. That's true the world over. She'll get little assistance from them. They can't do anything.
Rebecca is really in this situation on her own. Courts here will not appoint a lawyer/social worker to monitor things because in their eyes this is a no brainer: of course the boy belongs with his extended paternal relatives who don't speak his language or know him well at all and have only seen him a handful of times in his life.
Who would be crazy enough to think that his mother who has raised him for the last ten years should continue to raise him?
Personally, I am exasperated with this situation...so I can only imagine how Rebecca must be feeling. I am annoyed at the 'blame Rebecca, she did this to herself' game, and the "lay down and take it" attitude that some people are advocating.
I wish the official British presence here would stand more forcefully behind this woman and help her, but they won't. At the very least they could be blacklisting the Muraikh family from being granted visas to the UK while this situation remains as it is (and since traveling to the UK is akin to breathing for most locals, I would think that would get some wheels moving really fast!).
I hope Rebecca has a lovely visit today with her son, and that she finally gets to explain to him the truth of what has happened, so that he knows his mother is fighting for his return. I hope that today will not be the only chance she is given to see her child, and that the family starts acting in Adam's best interests and allows him regular contact with his family, despite their personal issues with the mother and her case.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
ummjake said I don't understand why people here (read: locals)
think that she should quietly accept the fate that has been handed to her in this circumstance without making a fuss.
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I never said that! Many times I have repeated that I think the boy is better off with his mother. At least Physiologically
Apparently, you’re the one annoyed of us expressing our opinion or our interpretation of what might be the father’s family motives in accordance with our norms & culture.
As I’ve written earlier, there are many missing pieces that my mind refuses to accpt.
The bottom line, why isn’t the British embassy doing anything about it if it’s a straight-forward kidnap case as most of you claim?
funny?!.......
has been presented. I have NO sympathy for them. Suggesting that the mother of the child play along with the "Qatari way" is ludicrous in light of the fact that the Qatari way has gotten her in this mess to begin with. She should have taken that child and run from the Arab world in my opinion. In light of the fact that she didn't, I would say that she is incredibly naive but no doubt had the best intentions.
The bottom line to me is that Qatari Shariah is a system that treats children as property and provides a distinct advantage to men over women. I am not surprised that no one wants to touch that one with a ten foot pole, but nevertheless it DOES provide for seizing children will nilly as logic has put it.
Does this bode well for Qatar? I don't know. I really don't think it will make a difference because money can buy almost anything -- maybe including the 2022 bid. But would I ever advise anyone I care about to convert to Islam and marry a Qatari -- NO.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I see nothing but tragedy in this case but wish I could find some humor....
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
LOL, this is becoming funny.
Nothing is more relaxing than flying like an Eagle in Heaven !!
I REALLY LIKE UR FIRST THOUGHT KOZ I THOUGHT ABOUT THE SAME STORY...Shame!!
Logic, I have nothing to gain to loose from this case. I just think you people are blowing it out of proportion. Yes, Rebecca hasn't seen her son for about two months now, but isn't their another way to go by this, aside bad mouthing the judgement of Authority in Qatar? Ok, maybe it wasn't her, but her supporters have done a great job so far.
We do voice our opinion whether you like it or not, but there is always a right and wrong way. I choose the right way, and that is to talk to the people directly involved and solve it. Why get the whole country involved when I can do it on my own? WIll it make my case stronger, no, So why do it?
And I could care less if you think I am Granny Mudhaiki, whoever else. Yes I knew Jamal and I am sure he wouldn't approve of this mess that has happened. Not that he would approve of what Fahad did, but the media attention isn't the right way.
Yes, I repeat, this is the way it is here. If you like it then good. If not, then leave, fight it, or whatever. Just don't come complaining when the shit hits the fans.
Good night!
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
think that she should quietly accept the fate that has been handed to her in this circumstance without making a fuss. I think you've all been living for too long in a country where you can't say what you really think for fear of being jailed or something, and you presume that the rest of us have those same sensibilities and fears.
It almost sounds like a vague threat: keep your mouth shut or you won't get to see your son ever again.
I haven't heard anything that has been truly disparaging about the family come out of her mouth (loads of US are spouting off, but I haven't heard too much from Rebecca that I would call rude or maligning).
She's had her son taken from her, against her will, and for nearly two months has been denied contact with her child by the people who took him. And the government here did diddly squat for weeks in terms of verifying the boy's location, situation, health and welfare so that the mother could at least be reassured that her son was okay.
How the hell do you think you would feel if that happened to you?
You guys keep talking about how it's only "one side of the story" ... and then Sugar goes on to say that not talking about it is the Qatari "path". Well isn't that convenient? You can always cry "you haven't heard the WHOLE story" as a defense, knowing full well that the other side's story will likely never come out.
I'm sorry -- but the uncle has had numerous chances to set the record straight if he felt like what was being said was untrue. If he chooses to not address Rebecca's version of events, then he can't blame the public for making a decision on what they HAVE heard and learned.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
As a foreigner, of course she doesn't mind the whole world talking about her situation. But as Jamal's family, I'm sure Fahad will never walk that path. It is a personal family matter, why would I include everyone in my case? It would just make things worse.
Yes, Rebecca is speaking out, but without full true information, I think. Anyone telling a story, its always to benefit them. How do we know that Jamal never tried to get his son? Why should we believe that Jamal used to visit his son once or twice a year? Jamal is not here anymore to defend himself.
I seriously think that Rebecca should have more respect for the customs and traditions of the family that she once married into, and her son carries their name.
This would never effect the 2022 bid, nor would it change anything in the country. It will not make the country look bad in anyway. Ilhamdillah Qatar will never be effected by such negative publicity from people who only have one side of the story.
Again, I feel for Rebecca and I hope she gets to see her son. But She needs to think twice before saying or doing anything that would jeopardize her chances.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Why do all this now?
Why didn't the father make a fuss over things while he was still alive if he/the Qatari relatives thought that the current living situation was so bad for the child?
Why did the uncle request armed guards for tomorrow's visit with the mother?
Why did the uncle earlier promise visitation and then renege?
Why didn't Qatari authorities ensure visitation with the mother had happened before this ridiculous length of time (nearly 2 months!!) had passed?
Why was a social worker unable to visit with the child (to simply verify his well-being) until last week?
Why did the family mislead the mother into signing something and take Adam forcibly instead of simply filing the custody case with the court and going about this whole thing by the book (assuming they knew Shariah law was on their side, what did they have to fear?)?
Is Adam currently enrolled in school somewhere in Doha? Or have they kept him out (and what's the plan for his continued education assuming they retain custody)?
How are they providing for his learning disability? Any health/emotional issues that have come up?
Why hasn't the family told Adam the truth about why he is here and why hasn't he been able to contact his mother (even by phone), if they were so convinced that all this was for his benefit?
Are the Jones' family genuine Muslims or was it a conversion of convenience?
Why did she come to Qatar to visit her son's relatives in the first place?
Was she truly unaware of how Shariah law operates?
Lots of missing pieces....
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Guardian doesn’t mean custody. According to Shariah law, if the mother is non Muslim she can have the custody of her Children unless proven unfit. However, The Guardian will always be the uncle or someone From the father’s family.
Again, I’m not taking sides. I’m just explaining the way I understood the situation. I can’t believe that she doesn’t know all that.
There are missing pieces in this story, don’t deny that...
How would she have known this?
I would better understand people's lack of compassion for her on this account if she was dealing with the ex-husband, because yeah, I would think a woman who marries a Gulf Arab should realize this fact.
But when it comes to signing a document that she was told was related to an inheritance for her son from his dead father -- seriously, how is she supposed to intuit that signing this would, by default, give custody of her child over to her son's uncle?
I wouldn't have known that, and I have lived here for the better part of 2 decades. I would have thought that it simply secured my son's future claim to whatever it was by the time he becomes an adult (18 years old typically). No way would it ever cross my mind that I was signing my child away to someone else...
And are you implying that she signed the document willingly and then had a change of heart (which is what you seem to be saying when you say "They might have not tricked her into signing the papers in the first place")?? C'mon...clearly that is not the case, genesis. The woman never intended to have her chid taken from her (and he was taken...don't try and sugar coat it and say it was anything other than an abduction...custody was granted to the uncle/grandmother weeks later by a judge, but up until that point, the boy was being held against the express wishes of his mother).
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
As I written earlier. They might have not tricked her into signing the papers in the first place. She was married to a Muslim, she should’ve known that Signing an inheritance well documents means that the uncle will be granted the guardian rights.
That they're Muslims? (How do you know?)
That they want Adam home by Christmas? (You think they don't want him home by then?)
Christmas is typically the time when schools have an extended vacation, kids are home with the family...so why wouldn't she want her son home by then?
My understanding is that she was misled into signing the document (and there's another issue the court has not addressed -- that she was given false information by the family and was essentially tricked; one account even says they admitted this in front of witnesses), and that what the document did was open the door to the custody case, not that she signed away all her rights to Adam.
Do you know something different from that?
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
He did not grab the kid nor kidnapped him.
According to the paper the mother signed. He is the Guardian of Fawaz now as he’s the uncle.
He did however dealt with this in a wrong way. yet, we don’t know what’s his motives or theCircumstances as he’s not talking to the press.
It’s a good thing that the mother is granted visitation despite all the lies she & her husband spreading around.
…Claiming they’re Muslim & stating on FB that they wish Adam is back by charismas!!!(why lie? )
by implying she is not a law abiding citizen. Don't forget that IN Qatar, Fahad did not kidnap the child because he would have the legal guardianship of him (like it or not).
How utterly tragic for this child that he has this HUGE circus revolving around him. I can't even IMAGINE how the dead father's family thinks this is REALLY the best thing. After all these years to just pop up and assert their ownership kicking off this tsunami. He HAD to have known the mother would fight for her child like almost all mothers would (although possibly not Qatari mothers who just accept that the father owns the kids). He MUST have know he was subjecting this poor child to such a firestorm. I have a hard time believing this is done from selfless love.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Who knows if Barrie and Rebecca are Muslims? I wouldn't use the fact that he is British to say he isn't.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
they are a Muslim or not. If you want to start taking kids from non-practicing Muslim parents there will be a lot of Qataris (and other Muslims) losing their children. I don't think that is an issue anyway. It is about the interpretation of Shariah subverting a mother's rights to her child.
As Sugar qtr so succinctly put it: It is what it is and it is up to women to exert influence to change that if they don't accept it.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Maybe something has happened in the past?
Or maybe because of the media stir that the mother has caused, he wants to keep his family safe?
Who knows!
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
isn't strange that the father's family requested armed gaurds from the ministry of interior to be present during the visitation?
unwisely left it up to the family here to decide on what's appropriate (which means they will stall and delay things more until actually forced to let her see her son)?
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Thank God, she can atleast see her child. Otherwise it would have been so devastating for the mother.
I hope both sides can come to an amicable arrangement.
Qatari/Shariah law mandates that all children carry their father's last name (as opposed to their mother's) -- so that rule gives them the lion's share of controlling power simply because of who his dad is/was.
Suppose (simply for argument's sake here) his dad was a complete wanker and his family members were not much better. Using your argument, they should still be given control over the child's moral upbringing simply because they are Qatari and the kid carries their last name -- regardless of what kind of role models they actually are.
Is that the kind of rule of law you want governing decisions like this? I guess so because that is essentially what Shariah law argues.
Do you really think all Qataris (and/or Muslims) are inherently better role models and guardians for a child than anyone else?
Personally, I think you'd have a hard time effectively arguing that is true (if you base it on facts and evidence and not religious books).
I would offer that each case should be looked at individually in terms of which parent/guardian would best serve the interests of the child (and that a range of factors need to be considered).
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
ummjake, true, but each family brings up their children the way they want them to be brought up. And since he carries their son's name, they do have the right to control that.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
let's just hope she wins the right for Visitation today at court
just a note to clarify, Sugar: one can be both a "British/English lad" as well as a Muslim. The two aren't mutually exclusive, as I am sure the vast Muslim community in Britain would attest to.
And just as there are many different Muslims, there are many different ways that people attend to their faith (even here). You'll find women who cover and those who don't; Muslims who pray 5 times a day and those who are less regular; Muslims who drink and those who don't; Muslims who are faithful in their marriage and those who stray....
The bottom line is what they believe.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
if you know it can harm your case in the end (ie - can be disputed in court).
Why would he get into such a discussion saying all those things, if people can turn around and say its not true. It wouldn't take much to disprove and I am sure the family would be aware of that.
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Xena, he lied about one important thing, which is the main reason why - I think - Fawaz was taken in the first place. He said that Rebecca and himself are Muslims, that isn't true - as far as Fawaz's family is concern. Maybe Rebecca converted when she first married Jamal, but she isn't a practicing Muslim, as told by people. So how can a non-Muslim bring up a Muslim child? Simply impossible, especially since Barrie called him a British/English Lad in the interview.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
saying "fortunately the biological father had died"?
I watched the youtube clips last night... and was waiting to hear that part - I think he had said "unforunately", but it was unclear -
there were a couple of other places where I couldn't hear his words properly and they sounded "incorrect" for want of a better word.
I do think he is being honest about everything - he was very calm and collected during the interview - answered everything he was asked without hesitation - have learnt a bit about people behaviour - and one thing I found was that he didn't twitch much and mostly made eye contact - which unless he's a seasoned liar, is normally signs of people being direct and upfront.
I find this whole story very sad. I do understand the paternal families side, since it is the way things are done here, with regards to children "belonging to the fathers side" - however I do think they could have handled the whole thing without being so underhanded. How can Rebecca ever trust them again?
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That's the first thing I thought about after reading about the verdict. The bests solution as I see it is for rebecca to move here with her family, and be a good friend of the family, even if she hates the uncle, just for her son's sake.
Hope I didn't imply that I was.
Maybe the family could relocate here -- who knows? It's certainly worth checking into, though job logistics would be the key factor. The parents would have to secure an offer, then get a visa.
From reading stories about similar situations in KSA, I know the local families who have custody can often prohibit that from happening...and though I would hope they would not do that here, one never knows.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
But seriously, the amount of damage with the press getting involved will only make things worse.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
ummjake, I am not taking sides here, and I am not defending the Qatari relatives. I was just stating a fact.
I think Rebecca, Barrie and their daughter should move to Qatar and settle here. That way maybe she can gain her son back? Could that be an option?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
are not directly involved in a situation and are powerless feel like we're doing something productive.
Not a damn thing will come of this petition, unless you're going to get some high ranking Qatari official to sign it (fat chance) or have the collective CEOs of Exxon-Mobil, Conoco Philips, and QP all sign it.
Don't hold your breath.
Here's a sobering quote I found that speaks to the chances of this decision being reversed(from 2003):
"The Embassy has no knowledge of an American or any western woman ever winning custody of dual-national children in a Sharia court." (this is in reference to KSA, not Qatar)(http://www.meforum.org/520/us-department-of-state-marriage-to-saudis)
I don't see anything more than visitation happening for the mother -- unless (as she seems to imply) the motive is money/access to the dead brother's inheritance and she trades that away for her son.
I think the mother should give it some more time to see if the family will do the right thing and begin regular visitation/contact with her son. And if they don't show any serious movement in that regard pretty darn soon (serious meaning NOT the crap the uncle pulled recently where he showed up and said she could visit then called after he left the office and withdrew that offer), she should quickly move onto Plan B which should be to contract with an outside group and get plans in place to steal her son back.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
How many of you actually thinks that this petition would change anything?
I can see them granting the mother the right of visitation ..nothing more
If the British embassy wanted to interfere, they would have done that earlier. it's been over a month now
Not to mention, government offices are virtually vacant this week
of people here.
And while we may only know one side of the story, it's not for lack of trying to get more info. If the other side isn't providing details, then all people have to go on and base their decision on is what's in front of them.
Personally, I feel pretty good about my decision (that the mom should have custody) in spite of the dearth of details from the Qatari relatives. At this point, it would take evidence of serious wrong-doing (read: abuse, neglect) on the part of the boy's mother for me to think the Qatari relatives had more claim to him than she does. And since there hasn't been anything even hinting at that, it doesn't seem like my mind will be changing anytime soon.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
The support is growing, but if you notice it is mostly from the Foreign women who are married to Arabs, Expats and people who only know one side of the story.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Whats the update on this case?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
ummjake, it depends on the circumstances, but it's possible.
And yes, Eco, things ARE different in most other countries for non-Muslim women. Generally a judge will determine which parent gets custody (based on a variety of factors including finances, home life, mental/emotional well being, where the child himself wants to be, level of support already shown to the child, and many other specifics.
Often it is shared between both parents. Even when one gets sole custody, though, there is generally some allowance for visitation of the other parent (usually unsupervised, unless there is some past behavior (usually abuse) that poses a risk for the child).
Women retain custody of the children more often than not (at least that is more the norm in my experience). This is usually because women tend to have closer relationships with children (we're usually primary caregivers) and do more/take care of the family more than men do. Recent studies done in many developing nations support this observation: when a woman earns money, she will spend more of it on food, housing, clothing for the family. Men spend less on it on the family, more of it on themselves.
And Bleu: Can you play the "what if" game? What if the family HAD lost the case (imagine a slightly different set of circumstances that wasn't as clear cut as this one seems to you)? Do you think the courts would have punished the uncle, or would he still be viewed as having done the wrong thing for the right reason?
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
be it father or grandparents
gets custody of her children, how is it different for non muslim women
In some cases if the Husband is alcholic,fraudster whatever then the custody is given to Mother and that will last only if she is single. If she chooses to re marry again the kids go to Father
Actually, there was ZERO probability that they could have lost the case.
The law is very specific, and the case fits the law.
They could have barred Adam/Fawaz from leaving until the case was settled. And if he was stopped, the mother would have stayed here with him.
It's not rocket science.
And even if you think that couldn't have happened initially, you've got to admit that the fact that the Qatari authorities did (and have done) nothing to ensure that the mother is allowed to see and talk with her son is abhorrent.
Here we are, going on 2 months now that the child hasn't seen or spoken to his mother. The uncle promises a visit and then yanks it after he's left official offices. This country must not have any child protective services department like they do in the States. Maybe they should consider creating one so that the welfare of the CHILD is defended and protected. Adam/Fawaz needs an advocate for HIS rights because his paternal relatives and the Qatari government apparently have their own agendas.
Question for you Bleu: if the uncle/family had lost the custody case, do you think any sort of consequence/penalty would have been handed down to the uncle for taking the boy in the first place?
I don't.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Logic,
You are applying your own culture/ideas/laws somewhere that they don't apply.
This is the law of the land, and ultimately, they got custody.
If they proceeded with the custody case first, Rebecca could have hidden the boy she calls Adam where they can never find him. What they did is just a preemptive attack.
You would be personally happy if they had asked for custody, she hid the boy, they won the custody case without the ability to get the boy.
It would seem the Shariah they are following would see them as the rightful guardians, regardless of the fact that the mother had custody all this time. If he was taken while visiting in Qatar, I don't think it would be viewed as kidnapping since Shariah doesn't acknowledge kidnapping by parents or guardians. This system is flawed in my opinion in its inflexibility, but nevertheless it is the system here. I prefer to acknowledge that and leave Qataris to their ways.
I do, however, strongly believe that this reflects on the religious and social culture here and that any woman would be crazy to marry and have a child with a Qatari. Even Qatari women don't have rights to their own children after divorce and remarriage (although their ex-husbands have a right to 4 wives and STILL retain ALL children from those marriages). If this isn't a clear cut case of a woman being subjugated, I don't know what is; but since it's Qatari women (and I am not one) it really is not my place to worry for them. After all, Sugar qtr accepts that this is just the way it is.
Let everyone open their eyes and be forewarned.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
projects a view of Executive power over the Legal system that is rarely viewed in a positive light. Look at what happened in Scotland with the release of the Lockerbie bomber (who is still alive and free). I know that in my own country there is room for Presidential pardons but that power when used ALWAYS causes an uproar by some.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Sugar, thanks for clarifying about the Brazilian wife, you know QL, we live on baseless assumptions...
PM,
I agree 100%, the families should sit together and agree on something, Our "international partners" are corporations that care about only one thing, $$$. Media pressure could only affect Rebecca's case negatively.
And that is what I have heard about the family as well. It's a shame for all concerned.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
No PM. The uncle that I knew recently got married, but he isn't the one that took the boy. But we never know how deep the whole family is involved in all of this.
And as it is a private family matter, yes we all feel for the mother and her tragedy, but getting this must attention will only make it worse. The boys Qatari are sort of conservative, originating from Saudi, so it will not be a smart move if people over do it.
There is a saying in Arabic which is, "تبي اتكحلها عمتها", and it means - You want to apply eyeliner to make her look better, but you blinded her. I hope it makes sense.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
It is a matter for the families and the courts. I don't think it hurts to give the mother our support and understanding, but I don't think anyone should expect political interference (although these things do happen).
I am praying that the dead husband's family will come to their senses and agree to share a liberal visitation schedule. It really shouldn't be that difficult since we are talking about Qatar and Bahrain.
BTW, sugar qtr, do you know if the uncle is married and has kids? I'm wondering how equipped he is to be a hands on dad.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I'm reading that everyone supporting this case is trying to get every type/kind of media involved. Now they are trying to get Al Jazeera Network to report the case.
Do you think this is going to end in any good way? I think people should cool off and think before acting like idiots!
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
case.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Huh, ?
What does all this have to do with Qatar and its International partners?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
You have to love the translations on the MOI site!
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
poisons everything.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Genesis:
Two comments on your two posts.
(1)
---
thanks for proving my point... Your word vomit is just a proof of your prejudice ;)
---
I think the proof of my prejudice was actually when I wrote "I am biased towards the mother's side...". Both sides of this argument are biased towards their own side, that's why it's such a red hot issue.
(2)
---
Fubar said " If this was an open and shut Sharia case, I'm perplexed as to why the Bahrainis are so supportive"
Correction:The case was published in 1 Arabic bahraini newspaper only ( serves the agenda of the editor & his sect ), most posts were pro-Qatari court decision. This was expressed in many Bahrain public forums
If you happened to read Arabic(and i assume you don't), I suggest you read the posts…
---
I said 'so supportive', not 'unanimously supportive'. My point is that if this is such a clear and unambiguous case, why has it been so devisive, even amongst Muslims, whom I would have assumed would have all taken the same, religious, side?
If you'd like to address any of my points in a substantive way, you are welcome, but if you prefer ad hominem attacks, that's fine too.
bleu, his Brazilian wife was here, with him. He lived with her. When he died, he was riding out from his house to go visit his mother around maghrib time. I know the whole story. Rumor was that he recently made his marriage legal to his Brazilian wife, before he died. Allah yir7imah, he was a good man aside all the personal issues that no one should get in to.
I also wish Fawaz is safe, and I am sure Fahad wouldn't dare hurt him in anyway. He is all they have left in memory of Jamal, their brother. When Jamal died, I know another brother went to visit Fawaz and his mother. Even the Brazilian widow went to visit them in Bahrain.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Sadly Bleu I think the mother was entirely too naiive in this case.
Fahad's sane and valid reason could be that Adam is the only memory of his beloved brother.
but should he not be working out a better deal with the mother than to just "kidnap" the kid from the mother, and how cruel is it that a child be kept away from his mother and she is going all ways to just see him, atleast for now.
how irrelevant is the fact that Adam's father himself allowed his son to be with his mother, while he was alive. He visited his son once in a while as said to us.
Sugar Qtr, "understand" is kind of difficult. While I understand why the paternal family wanted to see Adam/Fawaz and may have been upset with the mother, I cannot understand how they thought kidnapping was the best and only option.
I find the whole case sad for everyone involved because I just can't see how this will end well. If either side (and right now I have to say sorry, but more-so the paternal family because it seems the mother was making some overtures) had had the best interests of the boy in mind then a joint custody agreement would have been reached, with Adam/Fawaz spending equal time with both families. This would have been incredibly easy to do considering he's in Bahrain and I know Qatar/Americans who do this. That way he would have gotten to experience both cultures and the love of both sides of his family. What I want to know is whether or not the Uncle & grandmother even attempted this kind of solution before kidnapping him?
From what I can see the only thing the mother has done wrong was changing the boys name, which I don't agree with. However I don't think that justifies kidnapping, and the kidnapping was an overall bad move on the part of the paternal family and I hope the State of Qatar realizes this.
Olive,
It's almost a capital offence here in Qatar, she doesn't know this (Bahrain's laws are much more lax on these issues).
She gets all my sympathy.
She just came here expecting to get what she wants then slams into the wall of reality. We have different cultures/laws/morals.
AND NOW FOR MY REAL OPINION:
I hope/wish that Adam/Fawaz would be fine.
I hope/wish that Rebbecca can cope with whatever happens, and that she gets to get at least frequent visitation rights. I also hope that her relation with the family gets better, right now it's too confrontational.
That's exactly why I'm against mixed-culture marriages, it usually fails, and the kids are split into pieces. (There are some rare success stories that I know, but that's exceptional).
The boy's father seems like he was looking for fun, not a wife (Marrying a Brit, then a Brazilian, both in Bahrain???? No wife in Qatar)... Many of us Qataris would marry a woman to not feel guilty about the relation. Most get devastated when they hear she got pregnant. (I don't expect their intention was to have a real wife/family, in their mind, they're just playing/dating).
She should have gotten a local lawyer from day 1.
She shouldn't have signed any papers without knowing about the content.
I'd really like to hear the story from the other side, the story is still one-sided.
It's a heart-wrenching story of a boy, with 2 cultures, 2 families, 2 names, 2 fathers, ...
Don't you understand why all this could be happening? I can't conclude since Fahad still hasn't spoken out to verify his reasons. Maybe it just makes sense to me since I am a Qatari myself?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
thank you for that "interesting" piece of information.
A Shariah court thalib.
what is the valid justification as to how a custody can be granted to a relative when the mother of the child is alive and very much physically able to provide for the child.
what court can actually stay partner to this.?
Thanks genesis for the link.
So, Rebecca actually change his name from Fawaz to Adam after Jamals death? And she isn't a Muslim? How come Barry in his interview he said they both were Muslim :S
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
That article is about the children, parents and teachers of Adam's school in Bahrain, showing their support in public.
From Bahrain to Qatar ... Yellow balloons says «Adam return to his mother»
fubar said " If this was an open and shut Sharia case, I'm perplexed as to why the Bahrainis are so supportive"
Correction:The case was published in 1 Arabic bahraini newspaper only ( serves the agenda of the editor & his sect ), most posts were pro-Qatari court decision. This was expressed in many Bahrain public forums
If you happened to read Arabic(and i assume you don't), I suggest you read the posts…
http://www.alwasatnews.com/2628/news/read/336307/1/%d8%b1%d8%a8%d9%8a%d9%83%d8%a7%20%d8%ac%d9%88%d9%86%d8%b2.html
Rebecca should be fined QR500. In the interview, she was using her phone while she was driving,so in the moi site that was translated to "DRIVING UNHALLOWED MACHINES AND VEHICLES ON THE ROAD".
Google translates it as "Driver of the vehicle the use of mobile phone or other, but endowed while driving, using his hand in a campaign or use of, or concern while driving to see any material visible from the TV vehicle, or failing to prevent, but children under the tenth sitting seats of the vehicle, but Mamep".
Joking aside, she should be able to see her son. Keeping him away can't be good.
Bleu do you honestly have no sympathy for the mother is this case?
thanks for proving my point... Your word vomit is just a proof of your prejudice ;)
Thank you Nic and Olive for actually reading what I wrote.
I'll have to be more careful with how I use my words so that even Genesis can understand what I am saying.
I don't think that a mother trying to regain custody of a child she has raised for 10 years is a STUNT.
I am biased towards the mother's side, not because she is western, but because she has raised the child, and in any advanced judicial system that would be sufficient grounds for the child to remain with his biological mother.
The child has lived in Bahrain, and where there is support from Ministers and Human Rights groups for the mother. If this was an open and shut Sharia case, I'm perplexed as to why the Bahrainis are so supportive, and why the child wasn't removed from the mother as soon as she remarried.
Qatar does a lot of things seemingly for no reason other than to get on the world stage and be noticed by other countries. I don't believe the Asian Games was a method to get more Qataris to play sport (the average Qatari has trouble climbing stairs and getting out of car due to his girth...). Ditto the MIA wasn't opened to foster a love of art and culture. If Qatar wants to be seen by the rest of the world as a culture that is trying to unshackle itself from a past that devalued the role of women, then now would be a good start.
A lot of people in a lot of countries have a fear of Sharia being adopted in their countries as a parallel legal system, and with the way this case is playing out, it's easy to see why.
This whole incident has left such a sour taste in my mouth. There was a time when I used to think that on balance the Qatari population were okay with just a few bad eggs. Watching this situation play out I'm left with emotions not disimilar from the bigoted and Islamophobic people I tried to avoid when living in the West. At the end of the day I'm left wondering if such people were right all along. Deep down, the Gulf culture is petty and misogynistic, uses a legal system rooted in the past, one which most of the population would rather see preserved than updated to reflect more ethical and moral social norms.
Absolutely not. I understand why they think they needed to take him, however I don't think the current situation is what's best for the child and I believe that the paternal family went to far when a much better arrangement for all parties involved could have been made.
If the way it's heading now has an anti Arab/anti Islam agenda...well.. you have no one to blame but the paternal family. I really don't think they thought this through.
I’m not really a conspiracy theory fan..that was a replay on fubar's post
Off course The way it’s heading now it has an anti Arab/Islam agenda written all over it.
Plus do you deny that you as a westerner, refuse to accept whatever justification we gave you in regards of what might be the father’s family motive, Just because it’s against your norms ? And because the mother is a westerner too
There is a petion on line to Sheikha Mozah:
"To: Sheikha Mozah in Qatar
10-year-old Adam Jones was "abducted" by his Qatari relatives on 5th October 2009. His British Mother Rebecca is desperately trying to have him returned to her custody.
Mrs. Jones, who lives in The Kingdom of Bahrain with her second husband Barrie, their 4 year old daughter Alex and Adam, was pressed into going to Qatar to visit her late husband’s family.
Rebecca has attested that her son was kidnapped by his father’s brother, Fahad al-Mudhaiki, who tricked her into signing a document in Arabic, allowing a case to be filed in the court to decide who would have full custody of Adam.This he admitted in front of witnesses.
On Nov 12th, the Qatari Cassation court decided the 10-year-old should live with his grandmother, Miriam al-Juma who is 77 years old and whose late son, Jamal al-Mudhaiki, was Adam’s biological father.
Given that Adam has been raised by Rebecca from birth,the decision to wrench him from the only family that he knows & award him to virtual strangers, is quite incredible and unacceptable for this day and age.
Sincerely,"
Please go and sign it here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/zoomoo99/petition.html
Logic, your posts are clear, coherent, intelligent and certainly logical. I hope to see many more of them. That's why I simply didn't understand why you would resort to a crude insult. In my experience that tends to shut down the debate rather than continuing the discussion as we are trying to do in an opening society. Let's keep it civil and above-board. That way we can pursue this worthwhile topic.
Mandi
Genesis,
Why do you conclude that when it’s clear that was not what Fubar said?!
Are you saying it's a stunt genesis? You don't think the mother really wants her son back and is instead doing this out of some hidden Anti-Muslim agenda?
Thank you fubar for stating that this whole stunt is anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Gulf...
Perhaps it's time to email Fox news then?
They love anything anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Gulf.
International SUPPORT to the Mother and Adam, is snowballing:
http://www.google.com.qa/search?hl=en&q=Return+Adam+to+his+family+in+Bahrain&btnG=Search&meta=
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Fubar,
Well done, we should all do the same and spread the story to the world.
Only international pressure will produce favorable results in countries like this one!
I've been forwarding the story to newspapers in the USA to see how many pick it up.
It's been covered on UK tv and in the UK press, let's see how much coverage it can get globally, and show a 'real' Qatari story for a change, instead of another manufactured story from the country's PR department.
Mintus,
Unfortunately, this is the real Qatar!
Logic,
Most of the expats in Qatar (if not all) are supporting the Mother's side. I also believe that is the case with some Qataris. It's just as you mentioned, they can't always dare to say in public, what they really think.
People don't have a voice here.
Never restrict yourself from a debate here, no matter how long you've been in QL. Your opinions are always welcome, keep sharing them with us.
PS. Academic achievements, skills and competences do not need to be flashed. They are perceivable!
This is the sort of shit you see in a Movie. I cant understand how Qatar can claim to be so progressive and still let this type of thing continue.
It makes me very sad for the mother and family.
I guess at least it's a good sign that Minors Affairs considers this a cause worth pursuing and haven't told the mother to give up. That's got to be some comfort.
The amount of public support coming out of Bahrain for the mother is enormous. I don't recall ever seeing such a thing here in Qatar.
This whole sordid event is turning in to a steaming pile of bad PR faster than I expected. Hopefully it can be resolved soon without putting the poor child through much more of this nonsense.
I would urge other to read the other updates on the facebook page to see what the poor mother has had to deal with.
Search for the "Return Adam to his family in Bahrain" page.
This guy didn't have the cojones to stand up and show what a jerk he is so he played it that way. Truly distressing for the poor mother.... :-(
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Here's an update from the Facebook support group set up by his mother:
>>>
Dear Friends, The minors affairs authority asked us to come to their office for a meeting today. They called Fahad the uncle who took my son and asked him to come in to talk about the fact that I had not seen my son for nearly 7 weeks and this was a violation of my rights as a mother. To see this person sitting acros...s the table for me was very difficult after what he has done but I tried to stay calm because they warned me if I became angry they would not be able to mediate and negotiate a visit to my son. Anyway to cut a long story short after two hours of negotiations he agreed for me to see my son for a few hours at 5pm. I was overwhelmed with joy at the prospect of seeing him, however it was short lived. Ten minutes after I left to prepare for my visit with Adam the minors affairs called me to say that Fahad had called and changed his mind and the visit was off. Truely heartbreaking. Rebecca.
>>>
I think we're all starting to get a very clear picture of what sort of 'man' uncle Fahad is.
so I'll just assume I was on the right track to begin with.
Thanks anyway :-)
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
PM, this isn't about you or about anyone else. Let's just hope Rebecca gets Fawaz back.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
What does it mean to say that if I were Qatari I would be thrown off the boat before rocking it? It sounds as if you are saying a Qatari who thinks for herself is not acceptable and that something would happen to her. But I'd love to hear your explanation (and I am serious). What does happen to Qatari women who aren't in agreement with these customs and laws and unwilling to simply say "It is how it is"?
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Don't put words into my mouth.
And yes, that I knew the father, personally, i feel for the mother and her son.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Are Qataris that don't agree with the status quo thrown out? imprisoned? killed?
Gee, I hope that's not the case....
But I do appreciate your sensitivity to the mother of this child who finds himself in such a horrible situation.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
PM, be sure that if you were a Qatari, they would throw you off the boat before you rocked it.
I hope Rebecca is coping with the situation. I wouldn't want to see anyone go through what she is being put through. Shame on his family.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
I didn't understand what you wrote at first. Nevertheless, he is Qatari-British and everyone should be able to come to terms for the child's sake.
BTW, I was never one to accept "it is how it is" when the way it is doesn't make sense to me. Guess it's good I am not Qatari because I would really be rocking the boat! lol
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I don't even think Rebecca knows Why now. The only person to ask would be the Uncle, Fahad.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Mother and son had been living in Bahrain since the boy was a toddler. I would presume he's been being called Adam for quite some time (probably ever since he's been with his mum). She even remarried before her ex died in the accident.
If the father and his family were concerned about the boy and how he was being raised, why wait until he was ten to do all this? He was living in Bahrain and presumably they also follow Sharia law, so would the authorities not have probably also awarded custody to the father/his family had they filed case there (as that is the way things are done per Sharia law)?
And from all reports I have read, mother and son had visited Qatar before -- so there were other, earlier chances to file suit (or abduct the boy, as they did in this instance).
Why now?
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
PM, I thought you were smarter to understand what I meant. To the boys family, and he carries their family name, he is Fawaz Jamal Juma, and Qatari. I'm not defending any side here, but you have to understand that point. He is a Qatari.
My uncle married a Non-Qatari, as I mentioned before. When his kids grew older and settled in their mom's hometown, my uncles warned the mother. If she didn't allow them to visit and get to know his family, they would take them away from her.
I'm a girl and my mom can't sign me out to travel, even if she is with me, and she is a Qatari national. My dad, brother or Uncle (dad's side) can.
It is how it is.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
the mother's interview is really sad & heartbreaking.
it does somehow explains some of the uncle actions. Like the inheritance papers he had her sign, i don't think he lied to her. In our law, the uncle is the guardian(wali) of the well.Still i don't understand how she doesn't know all those facts? she should have never came back...
I hope this all turn out for what is best for this boy
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
IN QATAR - the children take their fathers name, nationality and religion. So, the boy is Qatari, Muslim and Fawaz is his name. Even if the parents separated and moved on, none of that should change. He could be a US or UK citizen, but it doesn't make him British or American. The dad was Qatari whether we like it or not.
I'm not passing judgement here, who am I to. I understand the support to get him back to his mother. I am for that as well. No way would I ever want any mother to have to do through such an ordeal, BUT - I can't comment on why the boys family did what they did.
Why doesn't anyone ask the Uncle?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
PM, we agree on his nationality, but it seems some westerners would only refer to him as "Adam, the Brit".
Logic, Re: International Law: It's legally different from countries' local law: "Only states may choose to voluntarily enter into commitments under international law, and that they have the right to follow their own counsel when it comes to interpretation of their commitments". It doesn't mean what you think it means.
Mandi, Thanks.
enough to know it. In Britain he is BRITISH because he was born to a British mother. To the Brits his father being Qatari doesn't matter one bit. Who is to say that Britain is right or Qatar is right? No one. The child is a dual national -- whether you 200,000 or so Qataris want to accept it or not.
My understanding is that the Uncle is in hiding and not speaking to anyone.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
He is no more Qatari than he is British. Rather than fighting over ownership, everyone needs to recognize the fact that he is the product of 2 nationalities and cultures.
I suggest we split him in half and let the Qatari family and British family each have half of him, even though that would kill him. Then we would see who REALLY cares about the child and who is just fighting over ownership rights.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
don't speak any Arabic and are now learning it as young adults. In all cases they were raised in homes where English was spoken because the parents were educating them abroad initially and then continued with an English language education. I personally find it sad that they didn't learn Arabic as a child BUT I no one dares to take them from their parents simply because their "Qatari culture wasn't being preserved". In fact, every one of them are far more successful in their careers than most Qataris and Emiratis.
Saying the boy belongs with his dead father's relatives because it is in accordance with Shariah is one thing (although as I have noted, I don't agree with it for the above stated reasons). However, throwing out attacks on his mother because he didn't speak Arabic or because she calls him Adam, seems egotistical and a weak defense. I know you to be much more than this. :-)
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
The object of this debate is a serious and very sad one and it would be respectful to the mother and the child, if we can all do something for them.
Logic, perhaps you haven't been a QL member long enough to realize that by no means does Bleu live under a rock. He is highly educated, multi-lingual and has lived outside of Qatar. We are grateful to him for providing another, often Qatari, perspective. He does not insist that he is right, he merely states that is is beneficial to present both sides of an argument. I think most of us understand that there are competing claims on this child but those of us from Western cultures believe that the mother's claim is more compelling than the claim of culture and family. I'm sure that we do not dismiss these values, we would just assign them a different priority. It is very kind of Bleu to give us an insight into the culture in which we live.
Mandi
......
Genesis, it's clear to most people that issues pertaining to the custody of children are resolved better not by following concrete laws, but by examining the facts as they are on the ground: where has the child lived? who, for practical purposes, are his family? in essence - what outcome will be least traumatic for the child, but will satisfy the legal and ethical demands for the child and his parent(s).
If the Qatari legal system has followed the law, then good for them. It's not for me to criticise or condemn that. However, they need to be prepared for the inevitable backlash that is going to come from the press, here and abroad.
Groups like Amnesty International only exist because governments do something perceived as 'legal', but citizens object. Greenpeace fights battles against corporations who are usually acting act within the law when they pollute, cut down old growth forests, kill seal pups, and bury toxic waste, but faced with public pressure either legislation is changed, or the corporation is forced to change their plans.
As far as I am concerned, this saga has reached the point where 'the public' (who let's face it aren't always the brightest of people, willing to accept what judges say) aren't going to care whether the law was followed. They will be outraged by what they see as being a denial of 'natural' justice - the removal of a biological son from his mother, with custody handed over to the geriatic relatives of the now deceased ex-husband.
This story won't be going away for a long time, and it is going to generate far more column inches than Qatar Foundation, or the WISE awards, or the QSTP, or the Brazil-England match, or the 2022 Bid, or any other press release coming out of this country.
A verdict wasn't given on the kidnapping genesis, only on the custody. They can only print "allegedly kidnapped" until a verdict has been made on whether or not the boy was kidnapped.
Nobody has anything against Egyptians here, its the unfortunate unbearable situation life puts them in when they have to serve foreign people who can dictate their fate!
I know you got it, but you are trying hard to save this state's face!
the verdict is already given on 12th of November. The mother is fighting now to get an appeal & right for visitation
That's standard practice in Western media genesis. You can't write anything else until a verdict has been given.
The story is already in the daily telegraph , and the words “claim” & “ Alleged” were used to describe the mother’s side of the story...
ummjake,
The boy is Qatari. Having another nationality from his maternal side does not make him less Qatari as is implied by many.
His name is Fawaz Jamal, even if the mother likes to ignore this and call him Adam Jones. She even changed his FAMILY NAME!!!!
Logic,
There's no such thing as "International Law".
All,
What do you have against Egyptians? Our tribal system? Barbaric? Are you racist? People here are trying to cope with and accept you having your own culture, yet many of you still find a problem in accepting ours.
There is a Facebook support group set up by his friends and 'family' (will the Qatari courts allow me to use that word to describe the woman how gave birth to him and raised him?):
"Return Adam to his family in Bahrain"
So far almost 5000 members have joined.
This is going to turn in to a PR nightmare for Qatar.
So far we've had British TV ITN covering the news story in Bahrain, and the Bahrain Human Rights Watch Society (BHRWS) secretary-general Faisal Fulad has pledged to intervene in the case.
The Brazil-England match came and went without making much of a ripple, but a story like this is total tabloid media fodder.
This story will probably wind up in The Sun, and possibly even the Guardian and the Observer!
YOU and the Qatari QL members here refer to him as Qatari, but to the vast majority of other people on here he is a dual national.
Most other countries recognize that nationality can be equally given through either the mother or the father (and often both at the same time), and often additionally through location of birth (if he'd been born in the USA, he would also be a US citizen!).
Just because Qatar chooses not to recognize the mother's contribution towards making her child as worthy of imparting that child with her citizenship doesn't mean it's right or that the rest of the world need follow suit.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Sugar,
You are so sweet but you can't dictate orders here.
This is a public forum and the mother sure needs all help from the international community to face the sad situation she is in!
This is a family custody case. Why drag the whole country into it?
Custody cases around the world get rough, why turn it into West Vs. East?
Just for your information, only civil courts are mostly Egyptians. Sharia’ courts (Minor affairs court in particular), the judges are mostly Qataris
How many times do myself & others have to repeat that the kidnap is not foreseen by the court because the boy holds a Qatari Nationality. It’s a well known fact that extended family is part of the family in this region. Article 2/2006 of the Qatari Family law is very clear, if the widowed Mother remarries she losses the custody of her children to her mother or the father’s mother.
To Nic, Eve, and anyone else questioning his situation.
You are all behind your screens passing judgement when not enough information has been given in the first place. Unless both sides of the story speak out, its all a one side situation, so we might as well all shut up and not interfere.
Since it is a family oriented situation, so one has the right to get involved, unless asked to by one party or the other - with logic.
Plus, he is not a British boy, he is a Qatari boy, with a British mother - so correct yourselves when addressing this matter.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
Eve,
That is exactly the hidden dangerous of this country. Any national can bribe the foreigner judge who is afraid of being deported to his poor country!
This immense power that the locals hold undermine any justice for this case and ensures and encourages them to behave the way some behave, as if they own the world and as if then can get away with pretty much anything.
Thank god not all Qataris abuse this hidden power!
Your sooooooooooo right at a time when Qatar is spending zillions to make friends and influence people for the 2022 games its not in their best interest to condone such actions that are not even fair and just. Nic tooooo right we have Egyptian judges that are told what to do, we call that a Kangaroo court. The mother could of cut all ties from the biological father if she had wanted to but kept on good relations its disrespectful to their sons memory to treat his son and mother this way. BIG ERROR IN JUDGEMENT on their part. The Qatari family obviousy think they have the right to do this but just being right doesn't alway get you anywhere. They will regret their decision but the harm will be irrevocable.
Thank you. I wish this all turn out for what is best for this boy.
I knew the boys father, Jamal. He was a great person, very calm and relaxed. I knew that he had a son living in Bahrain with the mother, too.
I wish I knew more or could do more to help fix this situation, but I don't think it would make any sense for me to get involved.
I questioned why the boy was named Adam Jones when his name was Fawaz Jamal. In the youtube interview with the step father, he mentioned that Adam/Fawaz is a Lad. Brought up by an English mother, but doesn't that always happen? My uncle married a non-Qatari, and when he died, she was back home with her family and took all her kids with her. They speak her language and act like people of his moms country. That doesn't always mean that it is wrong. I cannot argue religion, tradition and culture with anyone, because its up to them as parents to decide what is best for their child.
genesis, I wish I can help with more information, but I not dare call the Uncle to ask questions about what seems to be Family Related. I am forced to respect that boundary, I'm sorry.
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
I Also think that the way they snatch him from his mother is wrong. And they must prosecute the uncle for his act.
Aside from the kidnapping & according to our law, the custody must be given to the father’s family. Any Qatari would tell you the same.
That was based on what is written on the newspaper.
No , I don’t have access to the boy nor do I know the family.
There seem to be many mixed stories, but the only source is the mother side of the story.
As you’re much aware, So far there isn’t any official press release on the case from the Qatari Government or the father’s family
genesis,
Are you an Egyptian judge serving the people of Qatar?
In context to what sbgirl1 have written, the boy is completely British. How did she maintained his culture? By naming him “Adam Jones"!
Also Genesis there's the fact now that if the courts give him back to his mother, you can be sure she will be on the next plane back to the UK and will not take the effort to maintain his Qatari culture anymore. And if he isn't given back to her, he'll probably be so angry at his relatives that he will learn to hate Qatari cultures. There's no win in what they've done.
She lived in Bahrain -- not Qatar, I grant you, but it's an Arab Gulf country, so he's surrounded by the sights, sounds, and people of his Arab heritage.
She had him enrolled in a British school, yes, but he was taking Arabic and Islamiyat classes in addition.
She maintained regular contact with his relatives here.
Seems to me that she went over and above what most people would have done in a similar situation.
One wonders if his Qatari family will show a similar level of commitment to maintaining his "British" cultural heritage here while they have custody of him.
I doubt it.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
How can a country that employs Egyptians expatriates, as judges - who fear deportation all the time if they rule something against a Qatari or Qatar - be considered a state governed by rule of law?
When will you get it?
No matter how cruel the father’s family actions were, the ruling was as per Sharia’ law.
Any interference from Qatari government would be to allow visitation only. In one point, what she did is also wrong by depriving him from his culture & heritage.
The boy doesn't speak a word of Arabic!
And you're right. The fact that the Qatari courts have not responded to the fact that Adam was taken BEFORE the case was filed and custody was granted is an underlying issue here that they need to address.
It took a full month before his custody case was ruled on by the judge. During that time, Adam SHOULD have been returned to be with his mother, his only surviving parent and the person who has raised him since birth. The fact that he wasn't -- and the fact that the authorities here didn't somehow penalize the uncle/family for abducting the boy BEFORE they even filed their custody case -- makes the entire proceedings seem rather biased.
I am glad that a social worker was able to visit, albeit briefly, to at least verify that Adam is okay. I hope that his mother is awarded some sort of contact with her son by Monday when the court reconvenes. To not even be allowed to call him (let alone see him) is truly horrendous and unethical, by any standard.
It's worrisome that Adam is being lied to by his relatives and told that he's there because of a swine flu outbreak in Bahrain. Not really a great start to a solid relationship between a child and his supposedly kind and caring guardians.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Nastier and more barbaric than Adam's father's family, is the Qatari's authorities' behavior towards this.
How can a country that employs Egyptians expats, as judges - who fear deportation all the time if they rule something against a Qatari or Qatar - be considered a state governed by rule of law?
The world is just now witnessing the tip of the iceberg of how these "petro dollar nomad tribes" cover their flaws with apparent fake civilized facades!
your opinion about this case. As there is many mixed stories. And yet no response from the father's family. Why are they refusing any contact with the boy?
I thought from your post, you may know more from what is written in the press.
thank you
genesis, what exactly do you want me to clarify?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
I knew Adam, he was in a class I worked in at his school in Bahrain, he was a lovely boy and definitely British through and through even if he has Qatari heritage, he was brought up by a brit, went to british school and considers himself british. I hope he is ok, he was a lovely boy, not at the front when sharpness was given out but he wouldn't hurt a fly and was so funny.
care to clarify?
I saw an interview on youtube and I actually know who this is all about. Personally think that the UNCLE has no right to do what he did. The grandmother is the last person to judge anyone, and this isn't the right way to deal with such sensitive situations.
Why wait for 4 years to do this?
~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~
of law. But that is not what Shariah is in the sense that it is not directly stated in the Quran in the same direct manner that say the 10 Commandments are in the OT. Instead it is "interpreted" from the Quran and Hadith -- and the Hadith is where everything gets sticky.
The bottom line is that I don't trust men of the 8th and 9th century enough to believe that they can know exactly what "God's Law" is. At best, they can extrapolate and make a good guess. However, I find that a flawed system and one that reflects the patriarchy that was typical for the time.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
law.
There seem to be many mixed stories.
All of a sudden the Mother & her husband claims to be Muslims!!!( While The husband during the interview was referring to the father’s Family as being from another Religion & culture!)
GDN reports about social workers being refused to see Adam.
It’s getting really confusing, as So far there was no officials press release ( whether from the British embassy or the public prosecutor office)
I just found out that “Alarab” Newspaper have published today an article of the case, based on what’s written in A Bahraini newspaper & what they called a local internet forum (QL, anyone?)
PM - I'm pretty much in agreement with you, I was merely looking for the logic behind this. I don't really understand how you can be Muslim without accepting the Qur'an as the source of law but that's a different issue.
I will not be here politically correct, as I believe that things can only improve when exposed and dealt with!
This very sad case is a sample of how nasty this society can be. No wonder the labor and maids are taken for granted and allowed to be treated the way they are!
I suspect that this sharia law has a lot to do with this, as it’s seen and used as an excuse for many injustice acts and abuses!
How can a “one size fits all” law, as PM well describes it, invented by men more than 1000 years ago, still apply to a XXI century modern society?! One has to be either ignorant, naïve or blindly submissive to assume that this law, remains applicable to today’s modern societies!
How many more cases like this on, get away here without surfacing to the public’s eyes and how many victims are forced to suffer in silence?
Perhaps a documented report on "Qatari" traditions, published in the International Media, will expose the inhuman side of this society that strives to appear a modern, civilized and fare. Perhaps this exposure would remove some hypocrisy and will force leaders to actually start thinking in the way they want to sell themselves.
I sure hope that this case will have a happy end for Adam and his mother!
It seems people get all religious so to speak when it suits their needs and this is one of those times. Its obvious the welfare of the child is not on the top of the list, the fathers family must be using favors to get someone to trick the mother into signing her rights away in a country of justice that would make it void immedialtely.
is that is a system organized by men more than a 1000 years ago based upon the times and extrapolated from the Quran and what we know of the Sunnah. It is precisely this one size fits all aspect of the Shariah that I object to -- as a woman and as a Muslim. I believe it is time to modernize and realize that cases of custody MUST be handled on a case by case basis. The idea that a woman remarrying means she has to give up her child -- REGARDLESS of the fitness of the birth father or his family (in this case) -- is not acceptable to me. Your point that sometimes kids raised by step-parents suffer is a moot point since you haven't compared that with the suffering of children taken from their mothers simply because the woman had the NERVE to think she should be entitled to remarry (as the man is allowed to do) and still retain custody of her child. Nor does it consider how a child is denied seeing a loving marital relationship as the foundation for a happy home since this woman now has to remain single until her children are adults themselves.
I have serious issues with this and am only glad that as an American Muslim I do not have to submit to Shariah in my domestic matters.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
ummjake,
Personally: Yes & Yes.
Many others would say NO! "She may corrupt him".
(Even if she and her husband say they're Muslim, they'll keep being suspected of doing it for the show ... Forgetting that only god knows what's in a person's heart, mind and soul).
It would seem to me that someone who respects her son's culture enough to bring him to see his family is probably more fit than someone who would lie and trick somebody in order to follow his own view of whats right and wrong.
Anyway God will judge, He will not be governed by stupid rules which are open to misinterpretation!
You think she must be allowed to visit her son? So do I and most posters here - but under Shari'a it is not a "must". Maybe her lawyer isn't the best, but he has to work with a legal system that is outdated and antiquated and biased towards the male.
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
I think she must be allowed to see her son. In fact, i think she can file a case in court to be permitted to visit her son regularly.I can't understand why are they hiding him in a secret place & being withheld from seeing his mother.
From the interview i can presume that she might be ignorant about our laws & apparently she assigned a weak lawyer to handle her case
sorry can't delete double post
how the majority of locals think, but you do present some of their perspectives for many of us here on QL.
Do either of you think the Qatari family should allow his mother to see/talk with her son, now that they have custody of the boy? Do you think they will?
I'm genuinely curious as to why that hasn't happened after 6 weeks.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Did I hear that correctly? "Fortunately he did die in 2005" ???????
(I'm sure it's not what he meant, but it would seem so to the untrained ear)
that's what me & bleu were trying to explain earlier about the relatives perspective.
It doesn't matter anyway, as many of you already predicted The story has been told in the media
Here's The step father's interview
&feature=player_embedded#
They can.
But we shouldn't get off on a tangent about this remote possibility.
I agree with the letter writer Paul quoted above; I suspect the Qatari relatives genuinely care for the kid. They care more for his eternal soul and his being raised as a proper Muslim (in their eyes) than about any earthly-bound happiness he might have by living with his (western) mother and family.
I am sure they believe they are doing their duty as Muslims by taking him from her -- the same way most folks here think it is better to kill someone who converts from Islam than to allow them to live as an apostate.
To western ears, this sounds rather ludicrous. But to them, I am sure it seems patently obvious and clear.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
It might be 120 times higher Paul Cowan but the chances of it happening are still so small that it doesn't justify automatically giving every child to the paternal family over the biological mother. If we went by statistics of children getting hurt by parents the extended family would end up getting every single child.
PaulCowan,
What I was trying to say is that you can quote statistics from the west because there are surveys and they are published, discussed and acted upon. Contrary to what happens in countries like Qatar.
I was also not specifically referring to stepfathers hitting children, I meant children being abused by parents in general!
Olive, I can't find a general Qatar child abuse report. There is an astonishing survey from Qatar University into violence against women (astonishing in that it has been published) http://www.scribd.com/doc/21762454/Violence-Against-Women-in-Qatari-Society
Violence against girls doesn't say anything about problems faced by boys in Qatari families, but it does show that the risk of an atmosphere of domestic violence is considerable.
It is good that the authorities are facing up to these realities, which not long ago would just have been ignored as being a private family matter.
You are misinterpreting the Canadian statistics you provide. You are assuming that there is an equal chance of a child living with natural parents or with a step-parent. It is quite possible for natural parents to kill more children than step-parents, yet for the chance of a child being killed to be 120 times higher in the family of a step-parent. As we know, only a small percentage of children have a step parent. The link I gave a dozen or so posts up refers to the Canadian stats.
Paul Cowan there are many many many different things that allow the state to step into a family in the West. All you need is a complaint from the biological father, grandmother, teacher, person next door, milk man, you name it. And I made that statistic up based on the number of supposed child abusers in general. I don't think they've broken down the figures into biological parents & step parents. Now I've actually looked and here's the stats. The percentage of children murdered by their step parents in Canada is significantly lower then by biological parents and is actually on par with the number killed by siblings and OTHER family members, http://www.canadiancrc.com/Child_Abuse/Child_Abuse.aspx and the actual number of substantiated abuse claims in Canada is 9.71 %
Olive, yes, rules in the West are (always) changing. But as far as I know there is no provision at all once custody has been awarded to take account of how a subsequent remarriage may affect things.
Sorry, Nic, I don't understand. I don't think there are any statistics for this from the Gulf. In fact, there couldn't be, since there aren't step-parents.
The Sharia approach was obviously worked out according to the experience of the people who invented it (I don't believe the God-given-law stuff). There weren't any statistics back then.
I'm not justifying it. I'm seeking to understand what happened, how and why. The concept behind this aspect of Sharia seems to me to be very important to understanding what occurred and where things are likely to go from here.
I don't see how this law can be outdated if a woman who remarries is effectively saying that she is willing to accept (according to Olive's figures) a 10% risk of her child being abused in order to secure her own marital happiness. I guess Sharia says "choose between your child or remarriage".
The question I haven't seen the answer to is why this wasn't a problem for the family during the first 10 years of the child's life and then they decided to invoke the law, four years after the father's death and five years after the mother remarried.
Also 10% is pretty small when compared to the over 40% of Qatar children, according to Qatar University, who are abused. Physical discipline's is still considered the norm here, and for a boy with a disability I don't think that's the environment he should be in.
PaulCowman,
Who makes you believe that the statistics in the west are gathered and published the same way as the statistics in the Middle East!?
By the way, I understand and admire your aim to sound neutral, but I doubt you’ll find any other excuse or defense for the barbaric act, rather than the outdated and archaic referred law.
Wrong. While it may have been true of the child welfare system in the West in the past that mother's automatically got the children, these things are changing. Mother's no longer automatically get the kids, neither do father's, decisions are more often based now on who's the fittest parent. You see that's the beauty of the Western system, it can change, unlike religious laws which don't take into consideration things like who's fittest. You also need to look more closely at those statistics, particularly where is the biological father in these statistics. My guess is that they're nowhere to be found.
Nic, I certainly agree that the immutable nature of Sharia is a serious drawback. However, given the statistics now popping up about the threat to children's health and lives in the West from violent step-fathers, it wouldn't seem that the progress of civilisation has overtaken the logic of this law.
Olive, whichever system you are in there is a one-size-fits-all rule that is applied. I'm not taking either side in this, I'm just saying that the Sharia legal position has a sound rational basis.
Actually, if 10% of step-fathers beat a step-child, then I am astonished that Western law hasn't been adjusted in line with Sharia.
In almost every area of Western civil law, the most improbably risk of someone being injured is considered unacceptble (a baseball manufacturer was fined a fortune recently for not putting a warning on a bat that the balls it hit might cause injury or death). Yet the mother's right to the child is considered to outweigh a one-in-ten chance of that child being beaten and a 120-fold increased risk of being murdered. That is actually extraordinary.
Paul,
You are probably right that sharia law was the best option when it was established and to whom and where it was targeted.
Times changed and civilization progressed but that law will always remain stuck in its remote origins.
That is probably the problem!
Someone sent this in a letter to GDN:
"According to Sharia law, which is the law of Qatar and most Muslim countries, when a woman remarries she automatically forfeits custody of her child, and it goes to her mother or the father or his mother. Under the same law, custody is always awarded to the Muslim parent or his/her family.
Furthermore, the court will look unfavourably on the fact that Adam has a name other than his father's family name, as there is no adoption in Islam. The court will also consider issues such as the child speaking his native language and his ability to understand/practise basic religious duties.
The court will consider if Adam is perceived as being uprooted from the traditions of his father. This is not about the 77-year-old ailing grandmother or the family of Adam's father, this is about honouring their obligations to his late father and taking care of his son in an "appropriate" cultural context."
Those criteria make the court decision an absolute no-brainer. I presume they also reflect the cultural understanding of the father's side of the family about what is important in a child's upbringing - and it isn't his relationship with his mother, let alone a non-Arab mother.
The writer goes on to say (and I agree) that it is incomprehensible that the mother didn't understand this; she had, after all, spent at least a decade in the Gulf and was briefly married to an Arab.
Paul Cowan, that's all well in good in the 10% of cases where the step father beats the children. But what about this case where the child was in good hands with his mother and step father? You can't put a one off rule when it comes to custody, it doesn't work.
It's a great letter.
One hopes that the Qatari relatives or the authorities will facilitate the mother being able to visit her son soon. Already it has been a month and a half since he was taken from her.
(And why, until a court decision was handed down, was the boy not returned to the parent who previously had legal custody of him? If someone abducts my child and makes a petition for custody of them, am I to anticipate that person, my child's kidnapper, retaining custody until the court officially guarantees it? That sounds bizarre to me... The Qatari government could have barred her exit from Qatar until the matter was settled.)
At the very least, a phone call is in order. Then at least she can explain to Adam what has occured, and he will know that she is fighting for his return.
I cannot fathom that she has not been allowed to see her son since this all began -- not even a supervised visit. THAT is inhumane and intolerable. The British government and the Qatari authorities should at least ensure that this happens as soon as possible, for Adam's state of mind and his emotional well-being.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Actually, Nic, I think Sharia is extremely well thought out though it routinely adopts principles that are contrary to those of Western systems.
If a woman remarries, her new husband may be jealous, discriminatory or violent towards another man's child, whereas the maternal grandparents or the father's family will feel the child is one of their own. The child might be safest and most loved with the people Sharia nominates. The purpose of this rule is therefore to provide the best support and protection for the weakest individual.
In the West it is axiomatic that the mother ensure the best care for the child and remarriage is usually seen as irrelevant. However, that is probably a mistake: studies in Canada show that step-children are 120 times more likely to be beaten to death by their step-parents than by their natural parents. http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/buller/cinderella%20effect%20facts.pdf
This would seem to vindicate the logic underlying the Sharia position.
Genesis - yes, most Brits think that Arab laws are quite arbitrary and are made at the whim of the local ruler.
In any case, evil-Arabs-stealing-our-children is good TV because it feeds established prejudices.
According to the support group on FB, ITV will air a special report about Rebbecca tonight at 6PM (UK time). How far will this go?
Do they think the Qatari government can interfere in changing what is obviously sharia's law?
Well I hope they enjoy having him for the next 8 years, because as soon as he's old enough he'll be out of this sand pit and writing a tell all book.
That says a lot about how that law and that religion are sometimes interpreted!
...so she WAS educating him about his culture/religion.
I, too, know of many Muslims who send their kids to parochial schools in the USA -- precisely because they find it a better education for their children. It doesn't "turn them Christian". On the contrary, most I know have been left feeling even stronger about their own faith -- and in the process, they've acquired a solid knowledge base about another faith such that they can debate and discuss it very intelligently.
Win-win.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
If this is a religious based decision, it will sure be hated!
So the child cannot possibly be brought up as a practicing muslim if he is not with this conniving family?
So far, in all I've seen and read there has been an accusation that the mother is not fit, but not that she is trying to prevent the boy from knowing his religious heritage?
Oh and before we get back to the "missionary" school commentary (which is incorrect anyways, GCC governments do not permit missionary work as seen in many other countries) - there are many muslim children who attend supposed christian schools (sent there by their muslim parents) all over the GCC - no one seems to be too concerned about their souls - just on the quality education they can get.
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
Quite so Alexa. Checking the attendance list for the last one, I notice that (apart from locally based people) hardly any non-Muslims turned up, anyway.
I can't help wondering if this case will impact on the next edition of HH the Emir's "Inter-Faith Dialogue" conference. Are the Christian bishops and cardinals going to refuse to attend because Qatar promotes dialogue but gives the seal of approval to kidnapping to prevent the risk of a (perceived) Qatari becoming Christian?
Why do I think that their Graces and Reverences will shrug it off, not say a word, and then go forth into the world praising the spirit of tolerance and mutual understanding that comes from a meeting of men of peace?
I would have done anything to keep my children and raise them properly. Luckily for me my ex-husband wasn't interested in them at all.
I am a Muslim and sometimes I wonder myself why I continue to follow Islam in light of the way we see it implemented all around us.... :-/
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
A westerner "converts" to Islam so as to be given a fighting chance against their ex-spouse in terms of custody of the kids. Clearly it's not a genuine conversion, but as you said, you'll do what you have to when it comes to your kids.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
PM - no I am not saying that I am just saying that sometimes you need to do things that you would not normally do to go with the system and win !! I had adressed it to someone who had said that they did not know why any woman would want to convert or stay a muslim...
(whether they believe it or not) in order to have a chance at being able to raise their own children? Somehow that seems to fly in the face of the Quran which tells us there is no compulsion in religion.....
I'm not really sure who your comments were addressed to Andeee.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
converting to Islam is what allowed me to keep my 2 boys when I got divorced otherwise they would have gone to my ex husbands family - not to be brought up "non believers" so unless you have actually been thru something like this I would not be so fast to make such comments....
MaryC, if it is a choice between saving a child's soul by condoning kidnapping or depriving the child of heaven by saying the seizure was illegal ... well, any religius group will tell you that saving the soul is the fair and just thing and allowing a child to go to hell is the dishonest, immoral and unethical thing to do.
That is the internal logic of religion (and it doesn't matter much which one it is).
I don't see this mother as have a snowball in hell's chance of winning back custody (unless she can get the case switched to a civil court).
I am disappointed in the outcome of this case. I believe that it will tarnish Qatar's reputation in the international community. The prevailing global majority will not hail this as an upholding of family tradition, I'm afraid. I do an awful lot of cheerleading and promotion of Qatar back in the US. My next forum will doubtless include questions such as, "Isn't that where they kidnap kids from their mothers?" And I will endeavor once again to explain ...
Mandi
behavior of these adults weighs in the child's accountability according to Islam. It only weighs against them. And if the courts deem it their place to insure the child is raised (or indoctrinated) as a Muslim then I seriously doubt we can expect them to punish these people for their actions. This issue of accepting the religious freedom of Qataris is still unheard of. It would be a present surprise but I won't hold my breath.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
But Islam is a fair and just religion - or at least I thought so?? Dishonest, immoral and unethical behaviour
surely should also weigh in the balance when making decisions on this child's future?
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
Probably the only salient point in this case is the "wellbeing of the child" and I am almost certain that under Sharia the one over-riding issue that trumps everything else is whether he is being brought up as a convinced Muslim (and presumably, as far as Qatar is concerned, that means in the Wahabi tradition).
The religious perception of what happens to his soul trumps everything else and always will, as far as a religion-based legal system is concerned.
The Catholics used to kidnap Jewish children and keep them in an orphanage if a Catholic housemaid had performed a baptism ritual on them. It's the same thing, though eventually it did lead to an outcry in the West.
I recently read an update on this case - now that Tariq has reached adulthood, guess where he's chosen to live and with whom?? That's right, in the UK with his mother. So much for your comment Genesis that 'they will always come back'. Yes, he came back, back to his mother where he belongs.
Not even the - what I perceived as - educated Qataris understand the mother's position, how could one expect that the corrupted and outdated Qatari juridical system, will?
The fact that he has a lineage -- on BOTH sides -- is not the issue. Kidnapping him from his only surviving parent IS.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
It's not his new "family" it's his old family,
He's Fawaz Jamal Juma Abdullah,
Son of Jamal Juma Abdullah,
Sone of Juma Abdullah...
And I won't presume to know why his mother chose that school over another one, but from what I can find online, it is one of the better British schools in Bahrain.
Shall we take bets if his new "family" here enrolls him in a school with as good a record? One that can support his learning disability?
Fat chance.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
are we to believe that a country that makes Christian proselytizing punishable under the law would actually allow a "missionary school" where exactly that would be going on?
BTW, I know a number of Bahrainis who attended St. Jospeh's School. They got a good education and didn't convert to Christianity.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
sugar coating, are we ;)
A missionary school is a missionary school. There are many English speaking schools in Bahrain, Why this in particular!
anyway,i don't want to turn this into more accusations. I really feel sorry for what the mother is going through.
Not that it matters here or that is any excuse for the barbaric act committed to the child and mother, Adam and Jesus are two prophets of Islam!
the Arabic for Jesus.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Its pretty obvious she will not get fair treatment here she should either go to the media or pay someone to kidnap him back
not know everything about the intricacies of Qatari society and the way you apply so-called shariah here. I did not know that because the child's mother named him Adam or because he goes to a Christian school that he could be prosecuted for this (now or later in life).
I know a lot of Khaleejis who have studied in Catholic schools. Does that mean they can't be Muslims? Furthermore, I have some Muslim friends who named their son Adam. Is that a problem for Qataris or Muslims?
I really don't understand what you are trying to say here and I disagree with you that the mother is greedy and should be blamed. From what I read, I believe the mother stupidly trusted the family of her dead ex-husband and tried to do what she thought best for everyone. I hope the message other women get is that in the case of mixed marriages, not to trust Arabs in their own countries and protect your own rights to the exclusion of trying to acknowledge that anyone else has an interest.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Ditto PM's question re: name changing and school enrollment. Sounds like a convenient excuse to me, another example of confusing Qatari culture with Islamic religious rules. The two are not the same.
I know of many Muslims in mixed marriages who have named their children religious (Old Testament) names because it satisfies both sides of the family. And correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Adam is a person who is acknowledged and held in esteem by all three monotheistic religions, so it's not like she named him Jesus or Christopher or something.
Just because the mother called him Adam doesn't necessarily mean that she officially changed his name. None of us are privy to what is listed on his birth certificate. Even if his official name is Fawaz, I know of many families that call their kids something other than what is on a child's birth certificate.
As far as the school goes, I just checked their website. Though they started years ago under the auspices of a church, they were taken over by a consortium of companies in 1975, and have a rep from both the original founding church and the Bahrain MoE on their Board of Governors, as well as numerous business/corporate members. They teach religious education -- which is kind of a survey of world religions class from what I can tell. Students learn about Islam but they also learn about what Buddhists, Hindus, etc. believe.
Bearing all that in mind, I wouldn't call it a missionary school as you did.
She didn't take him away from his family. She IS his family, as much as you are saying his paternal relatives are at the very least (more in my book since she is one who has raised him). She was compassionate enough to stay living in Bahrain (and not return to the UK which is her country of origin), thus enabling her son to maintain contact with his father's family.
They haven't even allowed her to see her son since they took him back in early October.
Adam is ten. He is smart and literate in English. I hope that he reads about his story in the English press here and learns about what his new "family" has done to him. I wonder what story they are telling him now about why he is not allowed to be with his mother anymore. I can only assume it will be a blatant untruth, much like the story they told his mother when they tricked her into signing away her rights to her son.
I have faith that eventually he will learn of their misguided behavior both towards him and his mother/sister/other family. His Qatari relatives might be able to force possession of his physical body, but they should think twice if they expect they will win Adam's heart, soul or affection with their current actions.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
PM
I think this woman was too trusting in light of past published child custody issues. It has nothing to do with what she has done or not done.
The paternal familiy has acted heinously but within the "legal" statutes of the country where the child was at the time of the abduction.
IMHO no ethical and moral court would support the abductors, but a supposed "legal" one might.
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
reminds me of a romantic novel i read before, where a british woman met and married an arabic sheikh in her home country, blessed with a son and became a widow as well. After sometime, she finally agreed to send her son, in good faith, to her husband's country as per request from the "uncle". Just to be informed later on that she can only have her son back if she's going to marry this particular uncle.
As all mothers, she raised hell but found out later that hell can't even raise a finger with powerful arab sheikhs....especially this sheikh who was determined to woo her.
In the end, she fell inlove and they married happily ever after.
sorry, just romantic at heart...hope it will end well to the satisfaction of both parties
...listen to the sound of silence....
Deedee - sorry have to disagree, in Qatar, his paternal relatives DO have a legal right to try and take custody of him under the laws of the state of Qatar.
In this instance, they have no moral or ethical ground to stand on - they have been dishonest and cruel - both strikes against them in ANY court.
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
and that cannot be taken away. The Qatari Gov. have no powers to revoke it and the grandmother cannot cancel it as under British law she is not the legal guardian - the mother is. Does not this pose a problem as under Qatari law a qatari cannot have two passports?
There is a whole business out there of reclaiming children back to their mothers, if legal or diplomatical moves fail then the grandmother will have to look over her shoulder all the time.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I think the only way-out for the mother now is to hire a Qatari lawyer (preferably a women) for the appeal . Who specialized in custody cases & knows the drills in our jurisdictional system. Maybe if the mother vouch to maintain his name as "fawaz" & to teach him his culture and religion she can win back the custody. Other than that, i don't see a change.Even if this case become international, the government can't force the court to change what is very clear under Shari'a law.
Deedee,ummjake & PM- All what you written is so true & right. if the boy didn't have a Qatari passport
but that is total CRAP
No country, government or any earthly law has the right to take a child from his mother unless she is unfit. If you don't understand the black spot this puts on Qatar then I pity you. I believe the government will regret this action as it will become an international incident. And I'm not even British. I have been here many years and this is making me fume!!!! The mother may have been stupid, but the nerve of his "tribal" family. May Allah punish them for their bad deeds is all I have to say. Someday they will get theirs.
This is QL, not QS, we try to show two sides of a story...
The story from the other side:
Qatari boy back in Qatar
DOHA: Fawaz Jamal Juma Abdullah (pictured), a 10-year-old Qatari national, has been taken back by his family.
Adam’s father, a Qatari, died in a traffic accident in Bahrain in 2005. The boy has been living in Bahrain under the mother’s custody.
Fawaz’s mother Rebecca Jones, a British national has gone very far to take him away from his family and culture, she renamed him as (Adam Jones), even changing his family name, putting him at a missionary school, and taking him away from his family by keeping him in another country.
How does one get rid of their nationality? Especially a 10 year old boy (or his mother on his behalf)? You are either Australian/Japanese/Brazilian/Chinese or you are something else, unless, of course, you are one of the poor bedu in the GCC who didn't "sign up" for citizenship 30 years ago and now don't have papers for the country they were born and brought up in - and technically, don't belong anywhere else.
One doesn't maintain nationality, in Adam/Fawaz's case, HE can choose when he reaches the age of majority as to whether he wants to give up one or the other or carry both passports.
I agree his mother was extremely foolish in signing a piece of paper that she couldn't read - I'd think the same if she did that anywhere else in the world including her own country. Unfortunately, she must have trusted her ex-husband's relatives - which was a mistake in this instance and I feel badly for the family.
I do understand with my head under Shari'a the boy "belongs" to the father's family - however, I also believe that the boy's paternal relatives have behaved atrociously here in what they've done.
They have not been honest or straightforward in forcibly abducting the child and keeping him apart from the only family he has ever known - hardly the type of people that should be raising a young child and supposedly providing him with a good example as to ethical and moral behaviour.
I hope the courts take the immorality, dishonesty and cruelty of the abduction into account as the case proceeds.
Signature line > "You can't fix stupid"
PM said Genesis, I am surprised that you only imagine greed in why this woman allowed the child his Qatari dual citizenship. Is it not possible she wanted him to be able to make the choice for himself as he got older?
What choice did she gave him? Naming him Adam or placing him in a missionary school?(which both can put him in trouble & have him prosecuted when he gets older according to sharia law- because he still maintains his Qatari nationality)
She's been living in the region for more than 10 years, and don't tell me that she doesn't know all that facts.
I'm not questioning her choices or the way she chose to raise her son.
In fact i believe that the boy is better-off with her as the poor boy has dyspraxia which requires special attention. And we all know that there are no proper care for such cases in government schools. Unless his father's family choose to place him in a private school.
That's why i repeated it, she's to be blamed for all this.
Why did she maintained his Qatari nationality?
PM, I'm sure you know that the only reason the father's family went through all this because of the mother naming him "Adam". To them this is against the religion & culture And they believe that this will protect him.
this woman allowed the child his Qatari dual citizenship. Is it not possible she wanted him to be able to make the choice for himself as he got older? Perhaps she never dreamed that the child's biological extended family here would be so cruel. I find THEIR actions greedy -- they care very little for the best interests of this child by ripping the child from the only parent he has left.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
UmmJake,
You seem to be personally involved in this.
who grew the child in her uterus for nine months, gave birth to him and basically raised him single handedly for the last ten years?
Do you and this culture value women so very little that you'd seriously say that his distant paternal extended family has more claim to him than his attentive and caring birth mother with whom he had lived his entire life up until a month ago?
Unbelievable...
God never hits with a stick.
I hope his Qatari relatives remember this saying.
I hope they also realize that their behavior through this entire abhorrent incident (taking him by force, lying to and tricking the mother into signing a document that she would never have signed otherwise, not allowing him a chance to even see his mother) has nothing to do with following their Deen correctly, and has made them all unclean.
Good luck on their getting God to accept their supplications and prayers with this on their record.
"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
ummjake,
Enough of useless justifications and enough of judgments, can't you just understand a very simple thing:
They are the Family!
could have been made differently, I find it rather cold for you to be assigning all the blame on the mother here, as if she deserves it somehow for her stupidity.
Perhaps she maintained his Qatari citizenship because she genuinely wanted her son to stay connected to the culture and country of his father. Maybe she wanted him to have the choice of which country he wanted to make his home in when he became an adult. We don't know what she was thinking...but throughout all of this, she has at least demonstrated some kindness and compassion in maintaining relations with her son's father's family, even though they had been divorced since he was a baby.
The fact that they have not even allowed his mother access to see him since they took him from her over a month ago speaks volumes about their complete lack of compassion and concern for the boy's emotional and mental well-being.
How lovely that an energetic 10 year old boy who speaks English and (probably) little Arabic is being uprooted from his mother and sister and friends and given over to a septuagenarian Arab relative who he doesn't know well at all to be raised. When this old woman dies (which at her current age cannot be far off), then who will they pass the boy off to to be raised? Another distant relative he doesn't know very well, I am sure.
I hope the English national football team is reading this story in the local papers that get slipped under their hotel room doors, so that when Saturday night rolls around, they can say something publicly and make a grand gesture of support to this woman and the injustice that has been done to her here in Qatar.
If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
Genesis,
Enough of useless justifications and enough of judgments, can't you just understand a very simple thing:
She is the Mother!
Yes our jurisdiction system has its flaws. But don't blame it all on the system or our culture. While obviously the mother is to be blamed for all this. Custody cases all over the world get rough & are cruel.Not only here
Genesis,
Who are you to judge her, based solely on what you read?
Do you know her personally?
Do you know from first hand, what exactly happened?
Even if the answer for the above 2 questions is "yes", you are still not entitled to judge her or blame her.
She is the mother! Do you understand what that naturally means for a human being?
I think of the mother would agree to live in Qatar she would have a better chance of gaining custody. I have known many of such cases and children turn against the relatives that do this to them. Not only that one young man actually helped his friends reconnect with the mothers they were deprived of, tragic.
It's not innocent human error!
It's greed & selfishness
I will repeat it again, She change his name to Adam, got married to a British man, sends Adam to a missionary school.
To her, He wasn't fawaz anymore...
Why did she preserved his Qatari nationality?
Genesis,
That’s nothing of my or your business. Only the poor lady knows why!
The point here is not to discuss an innocent human error; the point here is to bring an innocent child back to his mother!
If an individual or a nation can't understand this human gesture, it cannot be called anything else than barbaric!
There wouldn't be a case in the first place. If she (Rebbecca) haven't maintained the boy's Qatari Nationality. There is a Qatari embassy in Bahrain, she could have canceled it! It is almost 5 years since the biological father died.
why keep the Qatari nationality? Can you kindly explain that?
This case would have never went to court & she would have easily won the kidnapping case if Adam had only his British nationality
Why I (very sadly) am not a tiny bit surprised!
I think the mother should appeal, not to Qatar (as obviously its juridical "system" is a meaningless, corrupted, biased, tribal and volatile), but to the international community. She should use the power of the international media (CNN and BBC), to expose the real Qatar, and how nasty this state can be. So the world would have a real understand of what it is really going on behind the glamour fake facades.
Maybe the Olympic committee and FIFA as well as the foreigners who maintain Qatar Airways alive, can use their power and boycott Qatar, until it starts behaving as a responsible mature Nation of the XXI century!
Logic,
Please pass this message to the mother and suggest to start an international petition and to get as much international exposure as possible. We, humans, will all support this fight against this barbaric decision!
here is the story timeline;
Rebecca married Jamal, Adam’s(fawaz) father, in 1998
Their son was born in 1999, but the couple divorced late in the year.
The father returned home, but remained in contact with them until his death in a motorbike accident in Qatar in November 2005.
She then Marries Barrie Jones, change her son name to Adam & apply for his British nationality.
So, who's mistake is it?
I'm sure the next move from the deceased father family will be to cancel his british nationality as per our laws.
Rebbecca is to be blamed for all this...
One can only hope her appeal will be successful.
And if not, it's only 8 years until Adam becomes an adult. And then, like many other children who were abducted and taken away from their parent, there's a strong chance he will grow to detest the culture that stole him from his mother.
Lose-lose. A perfect ending to this tragic story.
If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."
- David Sedaris
I read GT article today, it's tragic what the Jones family going through. However, the mother is to blame in the end. What was she thinking when she decided to visit Qatar!She was married to a Qatari for god sake, she must have known our laws. The boy was given a christian name, sent to a Missionary school & holds a British nationality. Why did she maintained his Qatari passport with the given Qatari name? I'm sure she knew that Dual Nationality is not allowed for Qataris, unless she was hoping that her son inherit his grandmother! It's obviously her fault.
She should have never kept the boy's Qatari passport.No matter how many times she'll appeal to court now, as long the court sees him as fawaz & he holds a Qatari nationality. The custody will remain with the deceased father family.
Whatever judge made this decision obviously did so as he was told to, you know it is not in the CHILDS best interest, I really feel for the women, why don't we start a legal fund for her and show her what happens when people support each other. But then again I guess she won't find a court here that is fair.
Even with the post about seat belts you don't want the kid to suffer for the immaturity of the parent. It happens everywhere tug a war with child custody cases. Parents and relatives can use their children as weapons against each other.
Even with the post about seat belts you don't want the kid to suffer for the immaturity of the parent. It happens everywhere tug a war with child custody cases. Parents and relatives can use their children as weapons against each other.
there is a child here who has been taken from his mother with no chance to even SEE her in the foreseeable future and that is very disturbing. Of course there is a lesson in this for ALL non-Qatari women marrying Qataris BUT I hate to see that lesson learned at the expense of a child.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
when will these women learn??? Mixed culture marriages are a potential minefield where children are concerned......They made their bed...now they have to lie in it! simple!
The court system here is very, very, very slow so they will drag it out, the poor kid could grow old here before its settled, I feel for the mother! Do they let the public sit in on court cases, this one would be interesting?
As the law and authorities here are unreliable, I guess a miracle is all to hope far.
Good luck and all the best!
Its sad when a parent treats the child as if it were an object to be played with, like tiring of a pet they do as they please with no consideration for its desires or mental health. God knows how a child does taken and thrown into unknown territory, probably messes them up for life! This is when an adult acts like a child. In the case of British child here his parent did not take him but an Uncle and the other case although the biological father, the child doesn't know him in that way, poor kids.
Al Habtoor is an Emirati family in Dubai. Click on the link to know more about them.
I always thought this was an Egyptian family....
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
say so. I was merely following your lead when you said "poor Arab guy" (meaning ANY Arab nationality, not only GCC).
And to your other comment: I've lived in Qatar almost as long as I have in the US. I have several good Qatari friends that I have known for well over a decade, and have spent long stretches of time with them and other locals.
So I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of how things operate here, yes (though clearly you disagree).
And you're right. I guess I don't have a problem with the mother trying to kidnap her own child in the situation you reported -- because as I read the story, it seems clear to me that:
1. they weren't married when she was pregnant and had the child
2. she predominantly/exclusively raised the child until they moved to UAE
3. the biological father, Mr. Al Habtoor, had almost no contact with the child during his younger years
So yeah, it kind of seems manipulative that he "invites" them over to the UAE, then within 4 months makes a claim for custody, which, after he wins, eventually forces the mother and her new husband to have to leave the country, never to see her child again. I don't know of any mother who wouldn't do the same.
I find it 'amusing' that after not playing any role whatsoever in a child's life, an adult would think it perfectly okay to suddenly yank them from the only family they've known thus far and keep them from them -- because it is his "legal right".
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Bleu,
I do not hate you or your tribal ways. What I dislike is humans abusing humans and even worse, systems allowing that.
Unfortunately, it does happen everywhere, but here in this part of the world, sometimes it just seems that the “system” facilitates this, as if it is a natural thing!
PS. Just to clarify, in my culture, debating and not agreeing, does not mean hating.
As for your statement that women here marry based on how much gold jewelry a guy can buy her... hmmm... you've spend most of your life in the US haven't you? It shows from your lack of understanding of cultures and practices that are foreign to you...
I find your one-sided perspective of things very amusing...
Especially how you choose to focus on 'luring them back'
The man invited her to live in UAE and she obliged
He got custody rights for the child as he is entitled to
and he decided to keep the child with him as is his legal right...
the kidnapping of the child by the stewardess and trying to smuggle him to Iraq doesn't bother you huh...?
BTW... I was talking about white women married to Arab men here in Qatar/Gulf... I'd love to see you prove that majority of Arab men in Qatar/Gulf with white women as wives are poor... If you think mine is an absurd statement, then you need a reality check...
Now I'll just sit back and wait for a troll who is apparently western and announces her marriage to a poor Qatari...
marry poor Arab men. I have several close female friends who have, for long stretches of time, been the sole financial supporter for both their own family as well as their newly extended Arab family.
If you consider the ratio of rich Arab men to poor ones, you'd quickly realize what an absurd statement that was.
And have you ever considered that Arab guys often want to marry us "white women" for our passports? I would venture that THIS scenario happens far more often than the one you suggest (again, given the standard of living that most white women enjoy in their own countries and given the preponderance of poor Arab men). And since culturally it's more common for us to marry for love, not family status or how much gold jewelry a guy can give us (which seems to be the case more here), it really doesn't make our women seem like a bunch of gold diggers that you portray us as.
But all this is off topic.
Re: the abduction being a return of custody to the rightful guardians -- if that's the case, then why hasn't the family moved on this before now? From reading other newspaper versions of this story, it appears the mother has visited Qatar numerous times in the past with the boy so that the family here could maintain contact with him. If they truly felt the boy needed to be raised here, then why wait until now? The mother had remarried years ago, so that can't be the issue (because again, why wait for years to pass?).
BTW, I love your example of the air stewardess and the UAE man who had a child together. Nice that he lured her and the boy back to the UAE after not having any contact with his child for so many years, just so he could take custody of him. Again, it really seems like people here view children as objects to be possessed rather than as blessings and lifelong responsibilities that deserve one's attention and love and time. If his child was so important to him, then where was Mr. Al Habtoor during the boy's formative years? I guess he had other, more important things to do than be a consistent presence in his child's life.
I thought Sharia law didn't recognize paternity outside of marriage...you said they had an affair, so how does it work that he claims custody of a child fathered out of wedlock?
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
He is as much British as Qatari. What I don't accept is you, Genesis, being so certain that he will "eventually come back" to Qatar. The trauma he is being subjected to now being stolen from his mother may backfire. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he grows up with some serious psychological problems and comes to hate Qatar and perhaps even "Islamic law" if that is what is applied in the case.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I agree, veris, the case should go to court. I am not comfortable with the uncle deciding unilaterally the custody issue. That's why we have court systems.
mandi
if the Shariah court considers the child should be rightfully with his paternal family, then the mother has effectively been 'absconding' with the child for the past five years... so from the perspective of the paternal family, only now has the child been returned to his rightful place...
The following article may shine further light on the issue...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/kidnap-mother-set-to-be-freed-from-dubai-655593.html
A British mother accused of attempting to snatch back her son from his Arab billionaire father could be home within days after all charges against her were dropped.
A British mother accused of attempting to snatch back her son from his Arab billionaire father could be home within days after all charges against her were dropped.
Sarra Fotheringham, 34, was arrested earlier this month, along with her friend Donya Al Nahi, 36, as they tried to leave the United Arab Emirates with her 10-year-old son Tariq.
Yesterday the Foreign Office confirmed that Dubai's public prosecutor had withdrawn all charges against the pair. While the matter still requires approval by the Attorney General before their passports can be returned, that was believed to be a formality.
"It is just a question of having it rubber-stamped. It is expected to take a week before they can go," a Foreign Office spokesman said.
Tariq's father Rashid Al Habtoor, 35, whose own father Khalaf heads a UAE trading and hotel empire, agreed to the charges being dropped after Mrs Fotheringham, was granted access rights.
She and Mrs Al Nahi, a mother-of-four from Maida Vale, had grabbed the boy as he left school, planning to take him by ship from Dubai to Iraq. But they were apprehended as they tried to board the ship, initially imprisoned but freed on bail two weeks ago. Both faced potential jail sentences with Mrs Fotheringham accused of kidnap and Mrs Al Nahi charged as an accomplice.
The former air hostess, from Camberley, Surrey, became pregnant with Tariq in 1990 following an affair with Mr Al Habtoor, but returned to Britain for her child to be born.
He had no contact with his father in early life and Mrs Fotheringham married a policeman and had three more children. The couple moved to Dubai in 1999 at Mr Al Habtoor's request but were forced to leave four months later after he was granted custody of Tariq. A legal challenge in the UK failed.
when you marry Western women, you can never be sure when they might turn their back on you and flee with your child and seek refuge behind their archaic legal systems!
Besides, they do it for your money... ever seen a white lady marry a poor Arab guy?... naaaaaaaah...
Hell, I've lived here for a significant part of my life...which would be kind of stupid if I actually hated things that much.
No, I just think that most things like this are better done in a more formal manner so that everyone is clear about what is happening and why.
I readily admit that culturally this is a HUGE difference between western and eastern societies. We in the west are more rule-based and here things are more relationship-based.
The two are not always compatible -- which is another reason why there are so many misunderstandings and issues of contention between our two worlds.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Nic, You seem to hate us and our "tribal" ways... You seem to see "tribal" as a dirty word, or something bad.
But does Sharia law condone taking a child from his biological mother without her consent or without a court order? Or even without any kind of formal hand-off happening?
Does this routinely happen to divorced/widowed Qatari women here when their children turn 10 (or at some other random time)? Does her ex-/dead husband's family suddenly pick up the child from school one day without informing her and she never sees them again?
I guess if child abduction by paternal relatives is the norm in Qatar or under Sharia law, then it ISN'T strange and weird...but somehow I doubt that's the case, genesis.
I would hazzard a guess that when paternal relatives suddenly demand custody of a minor, that somehow that request is relayed to the current custodial adult/parent or that a court would issue a formal order or something. I seriously doubt that it's okay that kids are just randomly taken and never seen again by their mothers.
THAT'S my big issue with how this has all gone down.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
right, and the bribes fall in which category?
The constitutional & Civil law of the land is sharia law. how many times do we have to reapeat all this?
Ummjake,
Unfortunately, it's no surprise that this is happening here.
This is no conventional country governed by Rule of Law.
These are tribal traditions with foreign judges ruling as per what they are instructed by the local owners.
I feel sorry for those who fall in the traps of the traditions of these tribal states.
against her wishes, in a country other than his official residence, and (I would imagine) against the current custody arrangements.
If the family wanted to pursue a claim for custody of the child, then they didn't have to kidnap the boy (and compound matters by denying his mother any chance to be with her child, as it seems they have been doing thus far).
Since they were both already in Qatar, the boy's Qatari relatives could have filed papers with the local court, which could have (I imagine) issued an order barring them from leaving the country until the matter was settled. Not that THAT would have been a much better outcome as it still would have necessitated separating the boy and his mother from their other immediate family members indefinitely. But at least then he and his mother could have remained living with one another.
(BTW -- Does anyone even know if Qatar can expedite certain court cases such as this? I've never heard of it happening, but surely they don't just wait for the slow wheels of justice to inch along in situations like this...).
Regardless of my personal opinion about who the boy belongs with, I find it appalling that Qatar hasn't ordered that the family return the kidnapped boy to his mother while the court decides who should have custody. Until a judge determines otherwise, his biological mother should retain custody of the boy. That seems to be a no brainer.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Nic, This happened in Qatar, so Qatari law applies before anything else.
Bleu,
I think we did understand but fortunately, the world is NOT Qatar.
genesis,
Nobody here seems to understand that when we say he is Qatari, we're just stating the legal status of his nationality (at least in Qatar).
Genesis,
How can you be sure that the son will eventually come back? Do you know personally these people?
And even if he, by any chances, chooses in the future to come back, it will be his FREE WILL and RIGHT - A totally different situation from a child being abducted away from his mother!
Man, you have to agree that in this case, the law the rules this young state, is rather tribal, antiquated and inhuman!
How can Qatar be in the world stage, taking such positions, universally condemned by the modern world?
The world is watching Qatar!
Even if the mother won the custody (Which would never happen), her son eventually will come back. And will always be a Qatari.
I was stating a fact, not taking a side
Btw, I’m not really in favor of the Minor affair court law. In an earlier post, I did wrote how the law can be unjust to women. Even locals...
is British. While you and the authorities here may define nationality so narrowly that you only see him as being Qatari, the rest of the world does not necessarily agree.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
qatari above human?!
O_o
Fawaz, is Qatari in the end. Despite what you , or his mother thinks.
Logic,
Unfortunately this is the image that Qatar still has in the west and it remains careless in working to improve it!
Hope the child can rejoin the mother and both escape for good, from this sad situation.
Anyone who knows Qatar will never believe this lie.It may happen anywhere else , but not in Qatar
A mother's desire and right to raise her children would seem to me a part of the HUMAN condition based on biology and the normal emotional make-up of a woman. Granted there are some damaged women who don't fit this description but the majority do and Islam supports this because of the supposedly high position MOTHERS hold in the religion. How is that reconciled with the way MEN are superceding the mother's rights.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Unfortunately for Westerners their govt. does nothing to help them if their child has been "relocated". I was told the US had signed a 50 year old agreement with Saudi that if they could get all the oil they wanted at decent prices the US would never interfere in Saudi politics guess thats why the Bin Laden family were helped out of the US on 9/11. I knew a lady married to a Kuwaiti and they were fighting in the States I told her not to go to Kuwait and she would not listen and traveled with her young daughter. It was very easy for the husband he cancelled her visa and she had to leave and he kept the daughter. The mother never saw her again! She kept saying to me NO he loves me he would never do that! UGGGH Its very good to learn about the laws and rules of another culture before ever venturing to live or visit there, I highly recommend it.
inspire fear and dread in the hearts of western mothers who try to maintain ties with the father's family after a death/divorce by visiting his native country.
I myself am in a similar situation, and though a part of me thinks that my ex would never do such a thing, this situation just goes to show that one can never be sure.
And so I won't risk it -- even if it means my child never gets to visit his paternal relatives. I am happy for them to come to us and visit us where we live, but I will never take my child to his father's country.
I've consulted with lawyers from all the relevant countries (Qatar and from our two native countries -- and I did this starting the moment I knew I was pregnant). I feel like I have a good understanding of what I need to do to maintain custody of my child. One of those things is to never visit his dad's home country while he's a minor.
I would encourage all women in similar situations to arm themselves with as much info as they can gather. Most of us have little understanding of the laws and customs, the legal precedents in other countries. When a woman first becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner, she should explore all the "what if" scenarios before she finds herself in an untenable position.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
UKEngQatar,
Absolutely, that is why "the norm" shouldn't be labeled "western", as it is naturally human!
This "uncle", should try to still a lioness’s baby, so he could comprehend the effects of nature mother's instincts!
Nic, May I add. It is a natural instinct for a mother. Even animal mothers nourish, protect and care for their babies.
-----------------
"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter
Amoud,
Your views seem confusing.
On one side, if it was you, as a mother whose child has been abducted, you would rip the kidnappers to shreds. On the other side, in this case, you question this same reaction, just because it’s a “western norm”.
It’s not about being western or eastern, it’s about being human and civilized!
While I agree that if something happened to my husband and his family tried to take my children I may rip them all to shreads (my western school of thought) I dont get how people cant comprehend that just because something is a western norm than thats the only way that should be considered right or the only acceptable notion.
__________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
his mother, sister and step-father. I especially feel bad that the mother was doing her best to let Adam's extended family see him when they took advantage of the situation and refused to give him back.
Hope some resolution can be found. But as Nic said, these judges are most likely going to feel that they serve the Arab Muslim population here. I hope they will prove me wrong and return the boy to be raised by his mother.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Ex legend you have no idea what you are talking about. You keep rabbiting on about how she can have a new beginning - which she definitely needs you say- as if her son is a toy or pet to hand on to someone when she has had enough. I'm guessing you have never had children or you would know how insulting that comment alone is. For your information she has remarried and Adam has a four year old sister who has never been seperated from her brother or mother or father but is now stuck in bahrain without her family for weeks.
Adams mother has tried to make sure he has had contact with his father's family since his father has died for his sake, hence she felt comfortable enough to visit again. And yes I do know Adam and his family personally and know how this has torn a close family apart.
You mean Qatari courts, ruled by Egyptian judges under the pressure of Qatari tribal lords?! How fair can a court case be in Qatar, when it’s Qataris against foreigners???!!!
extended family to take a ten year old boy, a boy who probably doesn't speak Arabic in more than a cursory sort of way, away from the only parent he has left and force him to live with relatives who he doesn't know/can't remember very well.
If they have proof she is an alcoholic or she abuses him, that's one thing. But minus any damning evidence like that, the abduction comes off as the family's putting their own selfish desires ahead of what's best for the child (as fubar pointed out above).
One wonders if they have been making the effort to visit with him in Bahrain while he has been there with his mother. Have they been Skype chatting with him online to keep the connection going after his father's death? If they haven't, then that certainly demonstrates to me that they couldn't be bothered with him much before now.
Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Who knows maybe this case is about money and if they have the boy they will get his inheritance, who knows that might be their perogative for abducting him. I can't imagine how you grab a 10 year, without drawing attention.
Genesis, do you mean 'rule' out custody to the deceased, or 'dole' out custody to the deceased?
it will go to court. in fact to the minor affairs court. And most probably role out custody to the family of the deceased.
Deedee, to be fair, it seems that the case has yet to go before the courts. Perhaps this isn't in fact Qatari law, and the judge will grant custody to the mother. Perhaps.
Frankly, I'll be surprised if it even gets to court...
If this is sharia law--then it is wrong.
If this is Qatari law--then it is wrong.
No debate.
PM how i wish but sadly my little friends are back home and here i guess i could only dwell around only but in a few places one of them being QL.
so if you excuse me, i would like to exploit the pleasure of stating my opinion while you can completely ignore them.
So run along now and play with your little friends; leave the adults to discuss this matter.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
...the boy is with his uncle.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
oh PM, i failed to look into your profile to realize you are beyond my level of understanding. i truly am quite young for your school of thought.
and not a teenager who calls names. I'll leave you to your child's play and discuss the issue with the other adults on QL.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
In this culture. I am not saying they need to adopt him. What I am saying is that the culture recognizes a difference between the biological relationship of a parent and those other relationships. But when it comes to the biological relationship of the mother, it doesn't carry much weight. It seems to me as if it all boils down to the notion of children (and women, for that matter) as property of the tribal men, to make all the decisions for and do as they see fit. It's a blessing that the overwhelming majority are good decent men.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
The mother is the closest member of this child and she is The Mother!
What kind of culture would remove a child from a mother who is taking care of her child?!
This was abduction, not a volunteer and authorized holiday at the uncle's.
As I said above, the act was inhuman, resulting from tribal, savage and archaic mentalities!
UKEng, thats why I said exceptional cases...courts sided with you as you were in a better position to care for your child. Its a shame that your ex refuses to see her child :(
PM it's not about giving the boy their surname or making sure he inherits from their estate in equal parts as their biological children. I am not talking about adoption in that sense. Im talking about the ability to nurture the child in the customs and ways of the local people and provide for his needs. So no, I do not feel I am contradicting myself.
We can argue for DAYS about this...but simple fact is our opinions do not matter. If the local people do not pass the necessary laws to recognise the rights of birth mothers whether foreign or local, we can talk ourselves hoarse, and still get nowhere.
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
PM, the woman got to raise the boy for 10 years now. i do understand its harder than words to detach a mother from her child. i was suggesting what would be better for her in my opinion and have not even gone close to forcing it on her. if at all you thought so. i simply find you as a grumpy numpty on a chicken run all alone. because you simply dont want to either read with thought or are too arrogant to accept others opinion.
guardian's death. He can give them gifts while he is alive but his estate is shared between surviving spouses and biological children.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Let me ask you, though: Would that same family have any rights over their tribal rights to him if his father was alive and wasn't raising him according to the tribe? Would the Shariah then say he is the Tribal son and should be given to an uncle or grandparent?
Again, my point is that women everywhere need to understand this before they marry a Muslim -- especially an Arab one. Their rights to their own children that they carried within their bodies for 9 months and then delivered through a painful labor, do not add up to the rights of the tribe.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
So what does the word Guardian in Sharia cover then? The Guardian can neither inherit the share of his custodian, nor can he offer his inheritance?
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"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter
but why would they have to adopt him when he can enjoy love/care from his paternal family and even the hereditary property of his deceased father without being adopted. he is still recognized as the son of a Qatari even if his father is dead and has all the rights to bear the family name.
so what is the point of adoption?
start a new life" over raising her children. Perhaps you don't understand the biological impact of bearing a child and the psychological one of raising that child, ExLegend. I find your comments bizarre and indicating a lack of comprehension of women.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
PM, when I said son, I never meant the son of his uncle or grandparents... He's the son of the FAMILY, TRIBE, ... a more general term (in our Arabic culture) :P
p.s. I like the thread better now, I like to see two sides of a story, not just one.
Islam and so the point I am making is that it is contradictory for a society that doesn't accept the notion of adoption to claim a child from a surviving parent as their own.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Ummjake ... you are not able to understand my point and that car exemplificaiton was totally hillarious.
i am looking into it more like that the mother of they boy definitely has all rights to be with her son. but if she has to start a new begining for herself (which she definitely needs) then having the in-laws to take care of the boy is more helpful than harming. provided, she could visit him whenever she wants and spend short vacations with him.
But PM.. surely he is entitled to his fathers estate?
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"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter
i am not implying ummjake... i am just laying down my opinion. as you must have understood from my last post, i meant that she would need this space to start a new life.
now this woman was married to a person from a country totally different to hers. so it will be right to guess that she was in love with this man whom she has lost quite very quickly (the boy is only 10yrs old). i am sure it must have been very hard for her. if she gets to live separately from the boy... instead along with her friends and family... i guess she will be able to refocus on her life better and get over with it as a new start.
in any case... denying the mother to visit her son ... in my opinion is more like a sin.
You talk about legitimacy and then refer to how a culture may dictate a child of a deceased father come under the responsibility of the dead father's male family. But I am pointing out that this culture DOES NOT accept adoption and raising a child as your own because it is prohibited in Islam. At best you can foster a child but you cannot give that that child your name and they don't receive the same inheritance under Shariah. I see this issue as extremely contradictory. This child can never be a SON to these people, regardless of whether they love him as a nephew and grandson, so why should he be taken from the ONLY person who CAN claim him as a son?
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
your car simply did you a kindness and relieved you of having to worry about those pesky auto repairs and always having to buy petrol.
What's that you say? Your sister died in a car accident? Don't be sad -- she always used to borrow your clothes and jewelry and forget to return them, pry into your private affairs,...who needs her?! You're better off without her!
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
it will give her freedom to think for herself and start a new relationship with someone. will give her the space for it.
i do agree if a mother is not allowed to meet the boy at all then it becomes more than just difficult for her.
but otherwise, as long as the boy is taken well cared by the paternal relatives... in my opinion it is much hassle free and better for the two.
"this should be more relaxing for the boy's mother"?
Please tell me that you're not implying that she should look upon this as an unexpected holiday from the duties and burdens of being a mother...please...
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Labda beg to differ. I am the custodian of my son from my first marriage. My ex was deemed not fit to cater for his needs at that time, so the courts in the UK decided in my favour purely on the basis that I was in a better position to cater for his needs rather than my EX. Even if my child was a girl I would have done the same. Now my Ex is re-married and has three more Children from her new marriage, but refuses to see her first born only because of our bitter past.
So even in the West there are exceptional circumstances where a father can be the sole custodian of his child/children.
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"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter
in my opinion this should be more relaxing for the boy's mother... except not meeting the boy at all part, if that came into effect.
Though just to hazard a guess - if she's been living in Bahrain for the last several years, that doesn't bode too positively for a warm and fuzzy family reunion in the near future (and when they kidnapped her son, that probably was the nail in THAT coffin).
Personally speaking, I can't imagine many people (men or women) who would choose to continue living with their in-laws after their spouse died. Not because of any particular ill will, but because you have your own family of origin and your own friends. You marry a person (and by that relation you also join another family), but once that person dies, it's generally time to move. You stay in touch with your adopted family, inshallah, but most folks start looking for another partner.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Legitemacy is subjective in this case. Ofcourse you and I wont agree with it, and I personally feel every minor belongs with his/her mother unless there are exceptional circumstances. In some cultures, if the father dies, it falls upon the shoulders of the male head of the family to assume responsibility for any child/children the deceased had. Some might say, they are now "their" children.
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
so is there no chance for the mother of the boy to unite with his parental family and live together happily.
or does she have other commitments that is barring her from doing so.
or is it that she was never accepted even initially by the groom's family
what is the cores story?
He is a nephew and grandson but not their SON. That has nothing to do with culture; it is about the facts of the family relationship. If you want to say "member of their family" I have no problem. But he is NOT a son and in a tradition where you cannot adopt a child (only foster them) because the parental lineage MUST be respected, how is it legitimate to obliterate the parental line of the BLOOD MOTHER????
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
PM, you cannot ignore the precedence of the prevailing culture just because it does not agree with your personal views.
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
I do not accept that that relationship supercedes that of a mother or father, regardless if culture.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Inhuman, tribal, savage and archaic!
That’s what happens when some were unable to catch up with the world's evolution.
were a girl.
Local culture is especially wanky about how daughters are raised.
I used to date a local for many years, and he told me (for what's it worth) that if he could guarantee that we would only ever have male children, he would have married me in a heartbeat. But being American, I wouldn't be able to raise a daughter Islamically the way that Qatari culture mandates.
(For him, raising a daughter Islamically meant sending her to girls-only schools, wearing hijab/abaya, marrying her first cousin before she turned 18...and he's right. I would never have forced my daughter to do all of that, because for me that is local culture, not Islam...but here culture trumps Islam in many situations.)
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
And though I know it won't happen, I would love to hear the judge lambaste the uncle for manipulatively luring the woman and her son here, falsely assuring them he was only going to take the boy to go visit his grandmother, and then snatching him.
As you said, if they wanted to make a try for custody, they should do it properly through the courts. File the paperwork. But don't kidnap the kid and prevent him from seeing his mother who has been his sole parent/guardian for the last 4-5 years.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
My question is would this have even been an issue if that child was a girl. Me thinks the uncle wouldn't have gone to so much trouble. Frankly, outdated arcane laws like these leave me flabbergasted as to why any woman would ever willingly convert or remain Muslim.
Another example of mixed marriages going wrong. Is this Kid just another Barrack Hussien Obama?
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"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter
I'm with Mandi on this. The issue isn't some grudge that westerners feel about having one of 'our own' taken away by a Qatari.
It's much simpler than that. The child has a livign parent and a dead one. In what world is it wiser to take the child away from his mother to grant custody to his extended family?
And taking the article at face value, the child has no societal links to Qatar. He wasn't living here at the time of his father's death, and only came here on a holiday.
I don't see how it can be in the child's best interests (and isn't working towards the best interests of the child the duty of custodians?) to remove him from both his mother and his home in Bahrain?
Let the case go to court and let a judge make a ruling. But until then, surely the child should stay with his mother??
Bleu, I understand what you are saying, I truly do. You are stating that a child belongs to a family whereas in the Western view of things, a child belongs to his mother and father (in that order usually.) My problem with this case is that it has NOT been adjudicated. The uncle has made a unilateral decision that reverses the legal right of custody by the mother without benefit of a judge. No official decision has been made. Now, you can say that Sharia says such-and-so but that is for a Sharia judge to decide, not an uncle. I am surprised that the child has not at least been reclaimed for his mother while the case is presented in court. I can't imagine either that Her Majesty (Eliz. R) is going to look favorably on Her laws being overturned without a court decision.
Mandi
I'm just accenting on the difference in culture. It seems nobody is willing to accept the other culture.
How about this:
"the law is really good for the family n kid concerned..i really hope they get back their son..its funny how some commenting here seem to disagree with the family getting back their son just bcos its part of some western culture ..give the family their kid,for gods sake..stoopid western culture is actually violating/threatening a multi-generational lifelong bond between a family/tribe and their own child.."
It's a different angle of saying the exact same thing, from the other side....
the law is really bad for the mother n kid concerned..i really hope she gets back her son..its funny how some commenting here seem to agree with the kidnapping just bcos its part of some law..give the mother her kid,for gods sake..stoopid law is actually violating/threatening a lifelong bond between a mother and her own child..
Eve, what happens if, for instance, a woman bears a son to a husband. The husband remarries, and retains custody of the male child - are you saying that the male child will remain with the biological mother to prevent the step mother from possibly sexually assualting her step son?
And why do you pre-suppose that Arab men are all child molesters who can't be trusted around girls who aren't their biological offspring. What an insult to muslim men.
if she remarries. It has much more to do with the notion that a child is the FATHER'S property and should never be raised by another man. The whole notion of rights and responsibilities with regard to children and women are very similar in traditional Arab culture. Both are seen as something that legitimately falls under the purview of the father, brother or husband.
I can't see why Shariah could not be re-evaluated to consider modern economic circumstances and educational and employment opportunities. But I am very thankful that I will never have children with a Muslim man and insha'Allah will never marry one again either! :-P
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
for the mother of a child who is half Arab or Muslim to never allow their child to visit the family of the deceased father except in her own country and under supervision.
I just wish we could get this point across to all women who marry and have children with Arabs and Muslims. It could prevent a lot of children from being ripped from their mothers to be replaced by members of the extended family.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
world that a man doesn't have to be unrelated to sexually assault a child. God know, it happens in every country, and Qatar is no exception. I have personally known of a couple of local women who were regularly "visited" by their older brother. The abuse went on for years (and was still going on because the few people in their families they told didn't believe them).
And ALL men (hell, all people!) "could possibly sexually assault" someone, but we don't bar them from interacting with other people just because it might happen.
Why do people in this region find it so easy and so comforting to think that women can't take care of themselves and their families? That they NEED a man to do that for them?
Fubar's reasoning is at least grounded in historical realities. But those realities are no longer true today.
The law needs to change.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
While the money would be nice, I still think that if I had to choose, I would prefer to work in McD's and be free to make my own life choices than grow up here with ample money but not much freedom.
The gilded cage is very pretty, but it's still confining.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Fubar their are actually very logical reasons why if the women remarries she loses custody, especially for little girls. If the women marries a man he could possibly sexually assault her daughter as he is not her biological father, its to protect the children! Every rule usually has a very good reason behind it.
A person I know married an American lady when he was back in Uni. She got pregnant with his child and had her. He left to come back home. Remarried and had more children from his local wife. After 20 years, the aunts get back in touch with her back in the US and she works at McDo's and waits tables while her dad here is a trillionaire.
Does that sound right?
1. The boy IS Qatari. He may be a dual national, but he comes from a British mother and Qatari father.
:P
"Why, for example, does a mother forfeit custody of her kids if she remarries, but the father does not? Upon what (other than blatant sexual discrimination) is that based? Is there any factual evidence behind it at all?"
Can I take a stab in the dark and assume that Sharia law would be derived from a time where it was not reasonable to expect that a women would be capable of providing for herself and her dependent children in the event of her husband's death?
I feel sorry for the child - does he get any say in where he wants to live? Or does he get kicked around like goods and chattels, in the same way that slaves were considered personal property in 19th century US history.
of the Sharia Law angle that our daughter got her kids out of Qatar before she left her husband.
1. The boy is NOT Qatari. He may be a dual national, but he comes from a British mother and Qatari father.
2. His name is listed as Adam Jones in the article (with an Arabic name in parentheses). What I understand from this is that he goes by the western name of Adam Jones, and the newspaper supplied the Arabic name so people would understand the situation better. As there is no mention of where he was born or what it says on his birth certificate, we may not really know what his legal name is -- but again, this isn't as clear as you make it sound.
Years ago when I first came to Qatar, all my government documents here had my "name" listed very differently than it actually is -- because they chose to use my first name, followed by my father's name and my grandfather's name as MY FULL NAME. But that wasn't what ANY official documents I had ever said... But they didn't seem to care what my parents had chosen to name me; it only mattered who contributed the sperm to my creation.
3. Clearly you're right. The laws here don't value the mother very much -- which in a way is very surprising seeing as how so many people here are fond of quoting that phrase "the way to heaven is under the mother's feet". Maybe we should ammend that to say "The way to heaven is under the father's feet. And then who? The paternal grandfather's feet. And then who? The paternal uncle's feet."
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Sharia law values the paternal relatives as custodial adults more than the actual mother.
I don't get that.
I just did a bunch of online research into Sharia rulings on custody arrangements. I wish someone could explain this stuff to me, the thinking that went into these rulings and laws.
Why, for example, does a mother forfeit custody of her kids if she remarries, but the father does not? Upon what (other than blatant sexual discrimination) is that based? Is there any factual evidence behind it at all?
Honest to God, this whole situation is perhaps the most effective promotional poster one could think of for why western women should NOT date (let alone marry or procreate with) Muslim Arab men.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
1-The boy is Qatari.
2-He carries the family name of his father and uncle.
3-The law, and people here don't believe in the idea that a child belongs to his mother (as most of the west does), he belongs to his father, and his family after a certain age, especially if the mother remarried.
The minute I saw the word kidnapping, I assumed it's about the father (it's usually a British mother, and a british tabloid covering the story)...
This is also a main reason why I'm against mixed marriages, because you don't just marry a person here, you marry a person, their family, culture, religion, country... It's very complicated, and when things go wrong, they go WRONG!
dont know the real story, so can not tell what really in mother's heart.
It's not only about her not being Muslim! It's sharia law, Family of the diseased must take the custody. Now that this case will probably be dealt by Minor Affairs Court, I guess they’ll rule for the favor of the Uncle (As the uncle is more entitled to be the guardian than his mother According to law)
All my symphaties are with the mother and can only pray that a good arrangemnet is reached between her and her ex husband's family.
"Jones has been accused of being an unfit mother on the basis of having a job, and not being a Muslim." Eh voila!
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=322422&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
I had a friend from a muslim country and when his father died (his mother was muslim and from the same country) even though he was 12 years old, custody of him and his younger brother reverted to his fathers family even though they were in a foreign country!. They declined and gave legal custody to the mother as they did not want to separate the family.
But they could have claimed custody later at any time if they so felt. Maybe something similar happened here?
When it comes to a mixed religion marriage, also solve these kind of issues before hand and get it in the marriage contract!
Hope you are well and enjoyed Milan :-)
I am not sure of the circumstances in this situation but it certainly doesn't ring fair for a child to be taken from his mother by an uncle... :-(
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Long time to see :)
This is the main reason why I am personally against mixed marriages. The complications after things not working out are massive to even consider. And love has nothing to do with it. When parents are from the same country they have these issues, let alone when the mom is an expat/foreign and wants to go home.
Yes PM
If only we adults behaved with a little more maturity and common sense, the world would be a better place
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Why is it always the innocent kids get caught up in the tug of war between adults?
I believe it is rooted in the idea that children of a Muslim parent MUST be raised by Muslims, as is usually supported by local laws in the Arab world. Any woman should think long and hard before having a child with an Arab man under these circumstances or (in this case) visiting an Arab country so her child can see Arab family in their home environment.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Custody issues in the ME are NOT like in the USA. I saw Not Without My Daughter AND read The Veiled Kingdom, by Carmen Bin Laden. "Scary" is an understatement when it comes to laws regarding custody ....it's worse than one's most horrific nightmare. Beware.
Sorry, the title mislead me.I thought that was Brit kidnapped by two Chinese dolls...
Anyhow, the poor mother made a mistake: she came here...
Again like you said this is what people entering into inter-racial/cultural relationships should consider. Most courts of law in the West would side with the mother but here customary law will most certainly have a say in this and if it doesn't I will be very surprised.
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
But when one parent dies, unless the other parent was not a part of their life or is unfit, I don't see how you can argue that the dead parent's family should get custody. It's unreasonable to expect the mother (who is British) to live here i the Gulf away from her family of origin. It might be reasonable to ask that she visit yearly with the boy...I don't know. I feel for the mother, though. Scary reality of mixed marriages when you have kids.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
...having said that that boy is just as much Qatari as he is Brit. The two families should come to a compromise, not sure how possible that is. In my culture all children belong to the father. Maybe its the same here??
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
Quite obvious what has happened. Like you said, quite like "Not without my daughter". Scary that.
--------Do I look like Bambi's sister???-------
Kid absconding from 3rd Oct and reported today . great
______________________________________________
- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -
ummjake, thank you for your comments.
it's really funny, yet unsurprisingly understood.
hope the boy returns to his mother soon.
Yalla!
I suspect that she came for a visit -- and that she was assured that everything would be hunky dorie, no worries. Then on day two he's taken and she doesn't see him again.
"Marriage is a wonderful institution...but who wants to live in an institution?" -- Groucho Marx
Alien abduction? In Qatar? Brit, how about your expertise?
The boy is with his paternal Uncle?
What was she doing in Qatar?
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"HE WHO DARES WINS"
Derek Edward Trotter