American Serving Life Sentence in Qatar
My name is John Wesley Downs, a 53 year old American serving life in Prison in Qatar. I am writing from Doha’s Central Jail where I am finishing year three of my sentence. My attempt to sell information to a foreign government was horrendous and wrong. Even though no information was delivered, my foolish activities of 2005 were a betrayal of the trust QP and the people of Qatar placed in me. For this I sincerely apologize.
This has been a terrible ordeal for my family. My father passed away in February of this year, my mother is 85 in poor health, and my wife, Nancy, of 22 years has been hospitalized, gravely ill and under the care of a neurosurgeon in the US. My three children, Nicholas 22, Margaret 19, and Thomas 17, after basically losing both parents, have banded together with tremendous love and devotion for each other, working, attending school and parenting the youngest. These incredible children remain steadfast in their love and forgiveness, spending their summers in Doha working and supporting me. I wish to thank the Qatari people for their sympathy and compassion. Their kind words to my family when they visit me have been a source of strength to us.
I made a terrible mistake. Not only did I ruin my career, livelihood, and ability to support my family, but I chose a path that has brought incredible shame to myself as a man and to those I love most. If, by the grace of your Highness, I were to be pardoned and removed from Qatar, I would gladly spend the rest of my life earning the forgiveness of my family and thanking the people of your great country. I am more than willing to submit a written or public statement of apology to QP and the people of Qatar. I humbly beg you to consider sending me home to my family.
Very sincerely yours,
John W. Downs
http://www.johnwdowns.com
should be sentenced to life for murdering the English language. I'll give you $100USD to become a traitor and go to any country away from the US.
Maybe when Mr.Downs gets released and returned to the US he will be tried again.
He who dies with the most toys wins.
look who is talking about education ...:)
life sentence is normal and it's just sufficient I am sure that he is well treated and I support the Qatari and International Law
What was he thinking?? Did he think about his children before this? Now he comes and cries! I would respect him if he just apologizes and tries to explains what he did, his chlidren has nothing to do with this...
of life,Hesa my friend..in any country , treason is ranked above murder as a crime..maybe technically not, but practically most of the time..
I am from India, where you can see murderers get away with life sentences commuted to 5 years..while terrorists,insurgents and spies rot in jail, maybe for years before they are even put on trial..
this guy was enjoying all the perks Westerners get in Qatar, and huge salary, villa, allowances, yearly tickets ete etc, all those things which a geologist might not get in the US..and it was not enough for him..
There are a lot of people in my company who work as cashiers, stock keepers etc , and they have a chance to make 'extra-money' which they do not do..and remember they do not get these above mentioned benefits..honest
...Avada Kedavra..
Can I just point out that this man who commited treason has been sentenced to life imprisonment, yet a few months ago there was a case of a woman murdering her maid and only got 3 years - doesn't seem quite fair does it?
I have sympathy for his family..but at the same time, if he was an Arab trying to sell US state secrets to Cuba/China, they would have buried him in Gitmo, set dogs on him, made him Part No 37 of a human pyramid and what not..
Qatar is a sovereign nation, and Qatar has to send a strong signal to the world that it will not tolerate traitors..any nation has to do this, for that matter..
A lot of the crimes committed in the world are crimes of passion, comitted in the heat of the moment..and they also do repent it their entire lives, and their families do suffer..but this is not the case here, it was premediated,carefully executed and the motive was money..which is not excusable..
Here I guess he may be quitely released after 10 years ? I hope so too, for the sake of his family ..But come on people, there are a lot of people who have served more than that in the GCC ,becuase they were involved in traffic accidents and there was nobody to pay the blood money..
One Kasmiri Indian trailer driver is in jail in Saudi Arabia from 1994, because he gave a lift to a local , and then got involved in an accident.. The local died, and this guy is supposed to pay the blood money, whihc he cant and nobody is willing to pay for him..he is still in jail..
...Avada Kedavra..
just be lucky that noneneedtoknow is on a forum....and we aren't trapped in a lift with him!
what a peurile comment.
so your point is ?????
Whether we like it or not, the guy committed a crime and is now paying the price. Insulting locals does not add any value to this discussion.
Thank you for the update, arkiegirl.
Mandi
John Downs’ young daughter, Margaret, has had a piece published in the January 09 issue of Cosmopolitan describing the challanges and struggles she and her brothers have faced since their dad’s terrible condemnation to life in prison in Qatar. Please read it and visit our website www.johnwdowns.com for more information.
AbuAmerican said PH to answer your question ...
PH to answer your question
I am just curious as to whether Islam would impose the death sentence in such a case?
then look at the hadeeth about Hatib bin Abi Balta'a.
You will find the answer is no. The hadeeth is found in Bukhari, the exact number and chapter I forget.
then that is the punishment which the person should be sentenced to if found guilty of that crime! If Qatar also exercises the obligations required of them in order to make such a punishment more then reasonable for that person.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
No.
My comment was by what basis a sentence is arrived at - reason or memetic dogma.
Here is a parable to illustrate:
In a strange land far away, the established dogma is that the sum of the internal angles of a plain triangle is 200°. This truth was given by divine revelation and appears in the holiest book of the religion of this land.
A young geometer, a student of the state religion, had the hubris one day to test this truth by careful measurement of a large number of triangles. His results varied slightly but he could not escape the conclusion that what he observed was a value of 180° with a measurement error of half a degree. He took his results to the priests and was duly ridiculed. “Since the truth lies within the holy book and our interpretation of its contents - you must have made a mistake in your observations” they said. “That you make mistakes is obvious because your measurements are not identical”.
But the more intelligent priests were worried. So they began to use all the powers of philosophical discourse they possessed to challenge this heretical idea. They founded a subject called 'geodicy' .
The priests constructed many beautiful arguments, many so complex that virtually no one could follow them. In this way they were able to continue believing in the truth of the holy book by means of their solution of the problem of angle”.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I don't think any punishment should either be too easy or too harsh Amoud! And you have made more than a good point about being an example in order to deter others from committing the same crime. This may be the wisest option given the consequences if someone should try it again.
The situation should be very clearly looked at without personal bias and to give justice by properly looking at the situation surrounding the actions of that person.
All too often people are so quick to judge without taking the time to look (read) at the situation (what a person is writing about)! Thus committing a great injustice on that person, themselves and the problem at hand.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Yeah I agree.... imagine that. "Hey, you commited a crime but you were a real nice guy up till now so we will go easy on you"
Sends a real bad message dont you think. What kind of deterrent is that for other people considering committing an offense?
Qatar has no obligation to anyone who comes to their country and committs a crime, especially one against the government. Are you insinuating that Qatar is obliged to go easy on him? What is the basis for that reasoning?
I was feeling a wee bit tired and emotional. :)
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
We all have our red mist moments :)
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Trust PH to turn this into one of her Muslim rants.
What I am not muslim so i am the same as someone who has committed a crime? I just a heinous godforsaken infidel?
really not a respectful way to view the world.
And thankfully few Muslims share this viewpoint.....
So bring it on!
No more Mr nice guy anymore. And strangely enough this is not a rant against the Qatari judicial systerm but all you who profess to know the truth of this all.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
going by the 'holier than thou' reactions from muslims here (quoting and inferring 'islamic' law, from both sides).
It is really sad and disturbing that all of you can pontificate on this individuals future(weather he be totally guilty or nah) with regard to a deity that you can't prove!
The 'sky daddy' delusion claims another sentient human being caught in the clutches of fantasmagorical wish thinking.
Is it beyond hope that the human race will wake up to their position in the universe and time?
Hell, I don't care now if it's Ramadam or Christmas, or not, someone has to speak out against this memetic mental illness. deport me if you wish - I would consider it an honour in the name of freedom of thought and speech.
Rant over, except for the moron who said "let him rot" - you robotic inhuman waste of space in this beautiful world - I wish the same on you!
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Princess, I take great offense to your very ignorant comment regarding reverts. Who says 'they all did a lot worse than this guy"? and who also said we were all once off the beaten track? We all arent Cat Stevens... drugs booze and partying till we found Allah. In fact, a majority came from good clean households and found Islam through the grace of Allah.
As for being forgiven and given a second chance, this is also rubbish. Is a born muslim not forgiven for his sins when he performs Hajj? Are sins not washed away in ordeals of pain. Would a muslim be forgiven for being a hypocrite? Not all things are forgiven....
I also find it odd how revert muslims can actually be so judgemental and lack compassion considering they themselves were once off the beaten track, forgiven and given a second chance.
And they did alot worse than this guy!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
He was SELLING backup data from Landmark Software
... This could could contain lots of info about the reservoirs.
He had the intention, by going to pick up the cash.
He should rot in jail.
What that man did and got is exactly what he deserved, surely his family doesn't deserve it, but him alone.
You do not expect to come to my house, steal my stuff in a bid to sell them off to my neighbour!
If I let you in my house, that means I trust you, and if you break that trust of mine, then I would not have any concern for you.
Even then, we are all humans, and everyone deserves another chance, but not this easily!!
as he says in his blog.
This country has progressed because of 2 things : Oil and Gas
He tried to sell data regarding those things. Old data doesn't mean it is not usable or pertinent data.
Many of us work for a company and we know that it is a crime to sell company data (or intellectual property) or even possessing company secrets not supposed to be with you whether you want to sell it or not. Any company will terminate such employee and sue him for the damage his action will bring or has brought to the company.
In this regard he betrayed QP and Qatar for that matter. He is just serving the sentence that was imposed for such a crime.
If he is to be pardoned, then it is up to the leaders of Qatar.
Amoud
I feel compassion for all! Which is why I believe in the death sentence. As better to have Allah judge them than me is all I think.
I have always felt sorry for the sick and twisted. And always wish I could do something to change them but unfortunately I cannot. There is no doubt their are some evil people in the world and I guess my knowledge doesn't cover and mind doesn't realize to what extent that evil is when God himself would put them in eternal hell.
So that is why for me every decision is one which follows islamic law!
Diamond.. I think using compassion when judging is one of the single most important islamic institutions taught to us by Prophet Mohammad SAW. And your country is evident of the superior nature of a good islamic judicial system everywhere compared to the harsher blood thirsty ones found elsewhere. I know you don't believe in it, but I am just curious as to whether Islam would impose the death sentence in such a case?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
arkiegirl you give a good testimony of someone who you say did something out of character..... then why did he suddenly value all his loved ones so little to go and sell himself, them, his company and his adopted country?
Why?
Did he start supporting the Iranian system???
Has he been there?
Would he like his family to live there?
Mr. P/Tig, there has been outrage expressed by locals at the pathetic nature of the sentencing of the local man who killed the boy.
I do not agree at all with the 3 year sentence. This is something which has already been expressed to the courts.
-------------------------------------
Arkiegirl, as a native of this country you will understand why I think he is where he should be.
However I pray for him and his family and am confident that he will be pardoned well before the end of his 25 year sentence. We are fortunate to have a compassionate and forgiving Emir who is well aware of who your brother is.
I truly hope that he is sorry for his actions and would hope he would never attempt something like this again, at least for the sake of his family.
-------------------------------------
Thank you for all of your time and comments, positive and negative. I must admit that John is not aware of this blog and exposure and therefore, cannot defend his actions, and of course, we (his family and others) certainly don't have the whole story, only John's side of it, but I needed some input and opinions of persons from qatar, understanding that blogs, although useful, are somewhat distorted perceptions. I am able to defend my brother easily because he has spent 50 years being a good, decent man--devoted to his family and especially, his three children. These children have been blessed with and have thrived on their father's love, and the few minutes each month that we spend on the phone with John, his only plea is that we take care of his kids--not to worry about him but to help his children.
LOL. You are an unpleasant little man and what you write is also not worth a read.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
What does this clown think he is? Gregory Roberts? Just another criminal trying to re-invent himself as a fiction writer. LOL! Unfortunately what he writes is not worth a read.
I feel sad for what happened to you Mr.John,what happened was part of the past.The good thing here is you admit whatever you've done.Its true that you were sentenced for life imprisonment,but in your heart you are totally freed.Freed in a sense that you admit your mistakes,& asked for apologies was the biggest part to ease the burdens that you have right now.
Sad for what happened to your father & to your wife,but then I am so proud of your children.Despite of what happened to your family,they still hold on & keep each other's arms,a very rare situation.I hope I can do something for them also,if I could only have a big house,big salary I wish to keep them.I am praying that after what happened to you & to your family there will be good things in return.Keep the faith,believe in God for he will not give you problems that you could not handle.
I agree Mira, and if you read the post, he is pleading for his freedom. I am not sure what everyone expected him to say. Of course he will try and appeal to human emotion to be released from jail. Does anyone think it would have read "Sorry as sh*t I got caught, it was useless info anyway. Had I gotten away with it I would be in Bora Bora now.... anyway let me go home, I wont do it again"
Anyone who would do something of this magnitude obviously doesnt have much of a conscience, but you know he is probably sincere and telling the truth right.
I am not sure why this issue is posted on QL. Quite honestly, if I had to use my time and resources to free someone from incarceration, I think it would probably be for the young men charged without trial, who are presently being tortured beyond belief in Guantanomo.
This man is lucky he committed this crime in Qatar and not his own country or otherwise the consequences would be much more severe...
Qatarisun..."but a life sentence for NON committed crime". Its not whether he comitted the crime or not thats important(i mean the act was/wasnot performed) but the intent, he had the intentions of betraying the country he worked for and that is enough. Trust me if he hadn't gotten caught he would defintely have had no remorse. I'm sorry I cannot agree with u on this one. If the law of the land is life sentance for treason, he definitelty deserves it.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
the laws of the land ?
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Vegas Said:
"I wonder what makes a person think they can get away with it..."
The odds that he had done it before and so thought nothing of trying again are pretty high. Most people don't get "caught" doing things on their first try...
That said, "I" feel a "Life" term to be a bit harsh (mostly by western standards) but I also find lashing and cutting off of extremities harsh as well...but you have to face the laws of where you live.
He's lucky he was here and not in a communist country where he would have been publicly executed.
I dont agree that any term over 7 years is inhumane... People live with the repurcussions of crime for their entire lives.
He didnt do this out of anger or stupidity. He is an extrememly educated guy, and I am sure his motives were not money.
This was calulated and not spurned by some rash decision.
And child molestors? Really, how can anyone feel sorry for someone who steals the life of a defenseless child? Let someone rape one of your children and see how compassionate you will be.
I would like to write a disclaimer....
I base my opinion and what I have read...of course I dont know the full story and who does???
But that is my opinion based on the principles of the crime.
he is sorry...talk is cheap
actions speak louder than words...
It is not just stealing the data as I said earlier, the Gulf countries are steadily involved in small conflicts with Iran. Selling anything to them apart from peanuts is dangerous and as we all know they are in the midst of a crises with the US because of the plutonium.
I think if you let one get away with it and pardon him after only five years others will follow and who knows where this will lead.
If Iran takes an advantage over the Gulf states because of data being sold, all the expats can say goodbye to their jobs and standard of living because all will be rushing to get safely out of the country and back home in safety. Then we will leave the Qataris here to get on with something an expat initiated.
I am not of the opinion that one Qatari's crime is the same as a crime against a whole nation - because that's exactly what it is a crime against Qatar.
Sorry Tig, those were his sister's words but I assumed she got that idea from him. He had stated it in an earlier version of the website, if I remember correctly. Maybe not.
But to me, it sounds like a lame excuse and makes his claim that he is sorry a little less believable.
But you're right, I don't know what's going on in his head. Maybe he's truly sorry, although just because something is stated clearly doesn't mean it's true does it?
Fpr me the sentence has alot to do with how safe it is to allow this man to walk the streets again?
If he is not a harm to others and serves a horrific punishment which anyone in prison will describe it as and he considered safe to walk the streets. Then the sentence should be lighter if death is not the end result!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I don't know.. I have alot of compassion even for child molestors..Feel sorry for the poor bastards. Hell I feel sorry for Satan cuz he can't figure out how arrogant he is..
however perhaps having too much compassion is a bad thing.
I've just done mistakes before out of stupidity that I would never do again given the knowledge that I have now is all.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
TOUGH! I say, he made his bed now he lies in it! All in the name of money, pure greed.......
PH, far be it from me to judge what his punishment should be. Because the real judgement is going to come later.
But I do have an opinion, and in my opinion, there's no question that he knew he was committing a crime. And in my opinion, one who commits a crime should be punished according to the local laws.
When you say "And his excuse that it was "old data" gives the appearance that he still doesn't think what he did was wrong. So maybe he needs to sit there a while longer until he realizes it".
Where does he give the excuse that it was "old data"? He dosen't use that excuse. Who are you to say that he doesn't think what he did was wrong? He states very clearly that he did wrong and is very sorry for doing it.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Also notfromhere I think putting too much judgement on his motives and actions is wrong. As we should not judge lest we be judged.
That doesn't mean that the action committed does not deserve fair punishment depending on the situation.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"Really we dono whats really going on behind all this things when that time he still in service(QP)"
consider maybe the "position/situation pressure"
any reason all of the above speculation and opinion...
our main here is to help the burden it will be lighten not to blame anyones opinion.other wise no one forced us to give our own judgement.
Be yourself and live free
Again not from here..
That is why I leave it up to someone else to judge the situation better then me according to Islamic law!
As don't know the ins and outs of what happened here and therefore can only make excuses for him.
I think a person should serve time as long as it is less than 7 years! anything over that is just inhumane in my opinion. I also think that once a person serves his sentence then they should not be held against him accept if he should commit another crime. In order for him to restablish his life once again. Otherwise their will be more serious consequences on society.
And again... I think we have all done stupid things in the height of anger without thinking how wrong they were! The only difference is that we get away with it!
And In my opinion not enough people are faced with the consequences of their actions because few acknowledge the extent of those consequences exist unless it is obvious!
Anyway.. nothing longer then 7 years in my opinion with parole! And the ability to get a job afterward. Based upon what is written about the severity of the crime.
however if it was more severe then I would sanction death as the most humane alternative!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Princess, so it's ok to commit a crime if you're not going to get caught??
And no, apparently he didn't take the consequences into consideration beofre he committed the crime. But how does that make it excusable? That's why we have punishment...to make us think about it before we do it.
I'm not saying he should get the death penalty, but he certainly should serve time. And his excuse that it was "old data" gives the appearance that he still doesn't think what he did was wrong. So maybe he needs to sit there a while longer until he realizes it.
"In fact, he was probably trying to get the money for his family!"
Seriously, do you think his kids would rather have the money, or have their dad? He was a sr engineer at QP, I really doubt if he was hurting for money. And he had recently taken a new job in Saudi, presumably for even more money. In fact, he and his family were already in the process of leaving when this took place.
He wasn't trying to get the money for his family.... he was pissed off at his superiors and thought he was going to stick it to them before he left the country.
The bottom line here is sincerity, accepting that he commited a mistake and learned from his mistake.
Whatever that "Important Data"...it's still useless for the eye of our creator.(Allah who done of all this things for the universe)
No one is smarter than him and he is listening for those asking Sincere forgiveness.
Mr. John...
Always remember and put it in your mind,
God knows what his doing, he had something very special in mind when he created you and NO MATTER WHAT HAPPEN you are still an important part of his plan...
I know sometimes it may not seems like things are going the way they're supposed to... But you can be sure he knows every details of your situation the reason why you are still in this world and he prepared to guide you through it...and iam no body expat workers here in Doha but i sympatize of your situation, don't lose hope there is "somebody" will be an instrument from our creator(Highest Allah/God)guide you to overcome all this trials in life because of our weaknesses as human.(as long as you are sincere from your heart asking for forgiveness)
Just put your trust on him(GOD/Allah) and he will be the rest to clean all this mess according to his perfect and blessed timing.
To Tigasin321...you have words and well of incouragement.
habibidak...
Be yourself and live free
Amoud
I think that he did not take into consideration all those consequences until after they happened. In fact, I think he thought he was going to get a way with it. Until the police come knocking on your door is a time when one thinks they will not get caught and its not that bad.
Most people do not commit crimes in order to hurt others. Rather it is done to gain something without realizing how much it could affect those around them. In fact, he was probably trying to get the money for his family!
I don't think death is too harsh compared to the alternative of 20 some odd years in jail and a record! Personally I would rather die, not be a burden to the system then be driving myself crazy in jail. I saw too many stupid people commit crimes in california and also how ignorant they were until after the fact.
I often thought their punishments much more severe then deserved. And many voiced to me how it was worse then death. And also how because of the stigmas they often would get out and continue to do the same thing again.
Anyway, the fact that he cannot be there for his family now will most certainly be a weight on his mind! And I don't think we need to criticise him or anyone else for making a mistake when we all make mistakes that hurt other people. I can think of alot more harsher things people do and get away with because it is under the guise of the law that is equally as destructive to those around them.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Princess, you can hardly compare a child pushing his sister down the stairs to this. A child is generally not aware of the consequences of their actions most of the time whereas John Downs knew what he was doing was wrong, and knew the consequences it carried if he was caught. Please dont tell me that he didnt know that being paid secretly to divulge information to Iran (very patriotic I may add) was illegal.
As for having compassion and understanding for him... where was his compassion and understanding to his family when he did this? If you commit a crime how can one expect not to be judged by the law, their peers and society?
I also do not understand how in one part of your posting you are calling for compassion and understanding and in the next stating you dont think the death penalty is too harsh?
someonenew, It shouldn’t be exactly 5 years.. but a life sentence for NON committed crime??
And yes Mr. P., I completely agree, and we discussed this case few days ago, and I was completely shocked how little the INTENTIONAL murder of the innocent soul costs, only 40,000 bucks and couple of years of limited freedom!! Isn’t it absurd??
YAP!!!! Reality Bites....
/
Do you understand what the consequences are notfromhere?
Allahu Alim I really do not want to judge the situation. I just think that alot of people fail to show compassion and understanding.
An adult who makes a mistake is no different than a child who tries to push his sister down the stairs. Not realizing it would kill her but surely intending to hurt her in a jealous rage. Do we try the child for attempted murder? And sometimes I think we put too much pressure on adults supposedly understanding and truly knowing the consequences of their actions. And are often judgemental of the person.
I believe the laws for such things are left up to the judge to decide. Treason has been known to result in death in Islamic law. And I do not think that would be too harsh. Although I do believe 20 years in jail, a record, no pension, and poverty stricken future are worse then even death.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I'm with Diamond n Oryx n Alexa n the others who thik its a fair punishment. 5 years for treason is too small a punishment. Lets take the countries in consideration...he's an American, so wud he be let off in 5 years if he were to do the same thing there? If he were in Iran he wud be shot I'm sure. So why shud Qatar be lenient in punishment? Besides if you let him go in 5 years that wud just encourage others to do something like that... what's 5 years if ur life is made after that???
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
I agree, Qatari. To many of us, the punishment may seem harsh, but that's irrelevant. We have to abide by the laws of the country where we reside, or suffer the consequences.
And our Embassy cautions us that we're subject to the country's laws and punishments.
PH - John Downs knew he was committing an illegal act, and any man in his position would absolutely understand what the consequences would be.
White collar crime is still crime, and well people may not die it can destroy lives, look at all the people who were with Enron and other companies that tanked because of white collar crime. What if what this guy had done caused thousands of people to be laid off, we wouldn't be so sympathetic then would we?
I don't see anything wrong.... there are thousand of innocent prisons in American jail as well as Guantanamo Bay.
Of course you should tell full story.
How can anyone be assured he is remorseful for what he did to Qatar and not remorseful for ruining his own life and his families? Do you think he would be so remorseful if he wasnt caught? Qatari is right, the info must be important if Iran wanted to buy it, and as posted by Abu American treason is punishable by death in the US. I cant believe that people feel this is an injustice... As Sami Al Hajj what injustice means, perhaps he can give you a better view.
You forgot to mention that just about every dictionary also defines treason as "a betrayal of trust" or "treachery".
Two crimes were committed and both were serious. One was heinous, cruel and disgusting and ended in the death of an innocent 11 year old boy. The other was greedy, selfish and cynical. The peretrator of the first gets 3 years for his crime and the perpetrator of the second gets life.
Seems totally out of proportion to me but then again, I am just a dumb yank.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
I am sure if he had been successful he may have continued to sell such documents until he experienced the consequences it would have on Qatar.
As for knowing the consequences??? How can someone KNOW the consequences if they have never been through it. Yes he, like most others, probably thought he would not get caught. And now that he has.. the reality of how severe the punishment is going to be is starting to sink in..\
And I bet alot more of the QLers here would have a bit of compassion should they experience just how severe a punishment like that can truly be!
And I bet now that he is experiencing that punishment he is probably alot more open minded towards how severe the consequences of his actions really were by giving such documents to Iran.
Many criminals do not realize the extent of their mistakes until they have made them! And most are more willing to be rehabilitated and never do such a crime again if he is given a second chance! And probably try to enlighten others about his ordeal. It is the ignorant who we should be more worried about!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
When begging for forgiveness & i think he is indeed sincere to his apologies, why not give him a second chance. We are just normal people, doing small or big mistakes in our lives. But the main factor is that is sincerly asking for forgiveness. Why dont we give him a chance. He has little life to spent, why not give him that little time to his family. Main thing is, everybody deserves a second chance.
he gets life in jail, and this muderer gets away with a small fine and a couple of years in jail, if they catch him....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
So the way I see it there are four arguements being made for his release:
1. "He did something stupid and made a mistake" - Right, isn't that what committing a crime is in the first place?
2. "The data he stole was not important" - Are you kidding me? Who is he to judge - if the Iranians wanted to buy it, it must be important.
3. "It wasn't really treason but just commercial crime" - With due to respect to the aweseome American QLers, Americans have proven that they do not understand the geo-politics of this region. There is long running tension between Iran and the Gulf States over territory (islands) and undersea gas. Giving away data which cost the Qatari's millions to obtain could give the Iranians an unfair advantage.
4. "It was just one lapse in judgement" - And this is the kicker I suspect. Anybody who has read spy novels will tell you that the authorities are thinking "is this just the only one we caught him doing?". How is anyone to know that he didn't sell secrets before? Or that he wasn't planning to sell more after?
Simply two wrongs dont make a right...
Arkiegirl-
I'm not sure what your motivation was for posting John's plight on this forum. I suppose you are just trying to get the word out to as many people as possible, but as you've seen by now you're not going to get much sympathy here.
I know your brother and his family. I didn't know John well, but I knew Nancy and the kids for years. So I remember the shock that went through the community when he was arrested. No one could believe that he would have done something like this. He was the Boy Scout leader, for God's sake. He was SUPPOSED to be guiding our boys and setting an example.
But things aren't always what they seem. The perfect family from the outside. But no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors, do they?
My heart goes out to the family, I've thought of them often and have wondered how the kids are managing to cope. Nick, the brilliant student, talented musician and Eagle Scout. I didn't know Margaret well but she appeared to be a "normal", fun-loving girl. And Thomas, bless his heart. He and my son had been friends since elementary school.
And I'm sorry to hear about Nancy, but perhaps now she can get the help she never would have been able to get in Qatar.
But Arkiegirl, it was your brother's incredibly selfish act that shattered their lives.
The reaction of the community was, How could he do that to his family? --and that's the same reaction your post has received on this thread.
How could a husband, how could a father, do that?
Remorse? Of course he's remorseful now; he's sitting in jail.
But he's a bright man and he'd lived here long enough to know exactly what the consequences would be. And "old data"? So what? He was entrusted with keeping any and all data secure, and how "old" the data was should have no bearing on his punishment.
For what it's worth, I don't think they'll hold him for 25 years. I think they'll quietly pardon him and send him home. After 5 years? 10? Who knows?
And after he goes home, then what? Is he going to maintain his website and keep us informed as to what he's doing to "earn the forgiveness" of his family, whose lives he has trashed? Or is he just hoping that we're going to flood the Emiri Diwan with pleas for the pardon of John Downs.
Sorry, Arkiegirl, my heart truly does go out to the family, but I have no sympathy for your brother.
"Jail for fatal road mishap
Doha
A Doha court has sentenced a Qatari in absentia to three years in jail for knocking down a boy and driving over him. The 11-year-old died soon after arrival at hospital.
The Qatari, who had a previous hit-and-run conviction, told investigators that the accident had been “a matter of destiny from the sky”, Gulf Times reports.
Eyewitnesses told the court that Fahd Al Shemeri was speeding towards the boy and his brother as they crossed a road in Manaseer on June 11, 2006. The boys ran for their lives, but the 11-year-old was too slow and could not escape in time. His brother told the police that the motorist knocked the boy down and “looked at him and after moments of thinking he drove over him to end any hope of survival and escaped”.
In a phone call to his father, the brother claimed that Al Shemeri tried to hit him because he was “a witness”, but when he failed he started to “zigzag” his car to stop the youngster from jotting down his number plate. The boy managed to recall two digits and the police arrested the Qatari.
Al Shemeri was found guilty of manslaughter and fined QR5,000 for driving without a licence and driving recklessly. The court also ordered QR150,000 blood money to be paid to the victim’s family. As the car was not insured it is likely that the driver will have to pay the money. Al Shemeri confessed to the crime.
He had previous convictions for drugs and a hit-and-run accident. The man is being treated in a psychiatric clinic, although a report confirmed he was aware of his actions. "
............So, tell me.
Which is worse, the murder of a small boy, or trying to sell a few documents ?
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
If he was in the US and had done the same thing would he receive clemency after 3 years - I very much doubt that.
So why when he committed a so despicable crime here against Qatar should he receive clemency/pardon?
Any information being sold to that country could damage and endanger the lives of all living in Qatar because any issues over there will effect us considerably - I know.
One other issue that has been mentioned on this thread - we are all entrusted with certain priorities and information in our jobs which is not meant for the general public nor even to be told to a best friend, this is called loyalty seems some are not quite aware just what this means.
"Good to know" saddening to see how few of them possess it JOE!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
In the universe only actions count, not words! It is quite good to know that there are people with some compassion in this forum.
Life prison, death, poverty! What about forgiveness and a chance to better the world!?
To realize that our knowledge is ignorance,this is a noble insight.To regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.Only when we are sick of our sickness,shall we cease to be sick,The Sage is not sick,being sick of sickness;this is the secret
Well I don't have any say in your fate but if I did I would say take your pick; Stay where you are or go to Guantanamo Bay where hundreds of Arabs / Muslims have been held without cause as a result of the Patriot Act and the hell bent determination of Neo-Cons, Evangelicals and the like.
No one cares about our brothers wrongfully and illegally held in this camp so why would anyone care to help or overturn your sentence as a result of treason to a small country and a company who trusted you for you to betray?
Since this is the Holly month of Ramadan I will at least pray for you.
I think aisha that when we compare the actions of other non muslim goverments as role models and even worse try to seek revenge on its citizens we are not using our wisdom or being just!(besides it will not make that non muslim country blink an eye as they would have done alot worse)
The crime should be punishable by Islamic law and the judge should use the methods prescribed. Adey has a good point when he says that the law is not black and white and the whole point of having a judge is so he can look at the whole of the situation rather then just a few points, stereotypes, and text book punishments.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
If he was on his way to collect the money, dont you think he would already have given someting or had the documents/info with him. Do you really think they would hand out money for just a promise of some info to come? No way. If a country or even you or I, are going to buy something we definately want to check out the offered material ahead. So there definetely was intend and I am sure he already had transactions with them. Someone mentioned emails. So here we assume an intelligent man who is working for a state owned company, has a good job, good money a nice family. And he ruins it all because of a slip of judgement? Who are we trying to fool here? If you catch someone trying to rob you of your money, dont you want that thief to be caught & punished? I do. Punish him severly and hopefully he will learn a lesson. But I do not think he has learned his lesson.
Also he can be happy that this happened in Qatar, that he is well taken care off in jail. He is not physically abused and the government even lets his kids to visit him and are courteous to them. Where does this happen? Nowhere else.
I do know of some countries (no need to name them) where people were students and just for being of Arabic descent they are in jail on an island, are being abused everyday and their family can not contact them let alone visit them. Again as I mentioned before, I feel sorry for the children and for the wife, who already had an unstable life, is now even deeper down cos of the man she trusted betrayed her and ruined the reputation of their life. No wonder she is reverting to booze as a way out. My suggestions to the family is, don't be too hard on your mom. She is not the one who caused you to be in this situation. May Allah take care of you.
Aisha-Taweela
I didn't say it was cool to sell secrets. In fact I said it was something that made his case a lot worse.
"had he had access to more pertinent info you don't think he would have sold it too?" - you can't be tried and convicted for something you might have done at some future date.
Anyway as an aside, how can a foreign national be tried for treason? Spying, yes.
Harm caused equates to severity of punishment - justice 101.
please don't get me wrong, I am not defending what he did.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
who don't need to know in the course of my employment with QP. But this is on the whim of my bosses and not 'top secret' info. We don't know what he tried to sell so we can't judge if the sentence was proportionate. Breaking trust is not sufficient to be tried on treason charges, although it is not in his favour that he sort to gain financially from giving info to a foreign government.
I have no problem with his incarceration but find it's length to be some what over reactive. I doubt that he will serve all this time. To all those that bay for him to serve 25 years I say: justice, law and the penal system is never a black and white issue - that's what we have judges for and not mob reaction and laws set in stone.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Treason: noun - the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
The guy broke the law and could be charged with espionage but I think treason is rather harsh.
Let him out in a couple of years - what are punishments for? To learn by? As a deterrent? Revenge?
5 years is deterrent enough for industrial espionage, he has shown contrition and there is no charge to be vengeful against, as it was nipped in the bud by security services, as no information was passed and no one hurt.
Ignore his first request for freedom and let him out in 2 years I say.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Yes I agree Alexa. It is a very difficult decision and one I would not cherish making!
At the end of the day we can only have another opinion based on our limited knowledge. Who knows what is wrong and right?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I don't know depending on the situation! If it really was not a threat against state security (allahu Alim) and only the location of a few oil deposits in the persian gulf.. well then I guess iran could well and truly try to make a war against emirates and Qataris.
So yes he definately deserves to be punished.
As for the 5 year sentence.. in America and canada a convict will have little chances to get a job! And be blacklisted because of his crime from ever having it expunged! (expungement does not take the crime off the persons record to enter into most professional positions)
So really given that Iran was never able to retrieve the info, then 5 years and a tarnish on his record for the rest of his life is a very serious punishment indeed.
And, in fact, I know many who would rather wish for death then have to live the rest of their life out with a criminal record, lack of employment, and poverty.
However, if the laws changed and he served time and had his record tarnish lets say for a certain number of years and then after serving his record was cleaned then I could say a longer sentence. Particularly if he is tested to truly feel sorry for his actions!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I stand by what I say...state security...and selling to Iran!
No - that is the security of many...and for 100,000...that is the price he put on his integrity, his family, his career, his company and the country that gave him a place to live ...it was his choice - he didn't consult others ...but they stand by him.
And kids dont always reflect the parents...great parents can have an awful child and vice versa.
I feel for the kids....but that is a very dangerous thing to do...and amazingly magnanimous of Qatar to allow the family to stay.
ok, i am wondering what would be a sentence if he DID sell the information. Is there death penalty in Qatar?
I just feel in some cases when there is no doubt of guilt, and the crime is absolutely heinous...that its the only answer..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
such as if you are driving a car and you intentionally run someone down...that's intent to kill..
If you are going too fast and accidently lose control of the car..that's unintentional manslaughter..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
A man after my own heart. These women are so tough! My heart also goes to the children in this unholy mess.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Scarlett, then why do we have court, jurors, hearing, testimony, Judge..? Why sometimes days and days are spent in court just to figure out how serious and deep a crime was, to figure out every single small detail of the case.. why sometimes jurors need few days to announce their verdict?
If it’s so easy: Here is a law – here is breaking the law ( or even just attempt of breaking),
why courts sometimes spend days/weeks/months to comprehend depth and width of the crime, before setting a person to any sentence...
Request an appointment at the Emiri Diwan & plead for a pardon. Ramadan is the right time,Each year the emir issue pardons to prisoners in Ramadan. My heart goes to the children.
Ah, now I am against capital punishment.
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well personally I still believe in the death penalty for treason, because of the potentially dangerous results....guess I'm just old school!! Thanks for letting me know tho!!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
I disagree with a five year sentence for treason. If it was only five years, it would be no deterrent at all.
Scarlett hi! Actually the death sentence for treason was changed to life imprisonment in the US in 1990.
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My final word on this subject is that I am proud of Qatar. I think that it is great that Qatar has allowed the Downs children to live and work in Qatar to support their father. I am not convinced that my country would have been so compassionate if this had been a Qatari who had committed treason in the United States.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
when the punishment is KNOWN to be death for treason and you still go ahead with your plans to break the law...doesn't matter is anyone is killed or not...that particular law is broken.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
how can you say that's not militarily important if Iran would make money out of the oil that could be located and sold due to his information??
I am with Alexa on this one..got to be tough for the family to read but they insisted on posting it on public forum and knew it would be discussed...both pro and con.
QS...I was just pondering that option...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Putting person/people in theoretical danger (with big question mark) is not as same as obvious murdering…
The data he was selling (or trying to sell) was not miltarily important but it was economically important. It detailed the location of gas deposits in the gulf sea border areas between Iran and Qatar. The data was probably out of date and inaccurate and the amount of money he was bargaining for was small. I think it was around $100,000. This was not a large scale thing. I am not saying that it was not important, I am just arguing for perspective.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
scarlett.. in history there is NO "IF". It's either done or it's not, either it happened or it didn't.
If one attempted to murder, but for ANY reason hasn't done it, he would never be sentenced for death.
There is treason and there is trason. Treason can mean many things, it could mean putting a country's citizens and security at risk. It can mean an attempted coup. It can mean the deaths of innocent people or it can mean selling old data to an enemy.
I guess we have to agree to disagree on this. I am not arguing that what he did was not serious and very wrong. I am not saying that what he did does not deserve serious punishment. What I am saying is that let the punishment fit the crime. In my humble opinion, what he did was a 5 year crime not a life sentence.
In any event, I wish him well and most importantly, I wish his family well. Hats off to them.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
and the secrets he was going to sell to Iran made it possible to attack another country at an accelerated rate..would he have committed treason against TWO countries???
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
There is stupid and there is stupiiiiid. Did he think he was playing a prank at the time? He actually went to pick up the money and he wants the Qatari govt to believe he didn't really plan to sell any secrets.
He shouldn't have sent those emails period. If he wasn't happy with his employers all he had to do was move on to another job.
Giving him a life sentence however, is a bit too much. I hope the Qatari Supreme Court will tamper justice with mercy and give him a shorter sentence. But believe you me he has to understand that you do not mess with another country national treasure!!
An American selling secrets from QP to IRAN!!! A country that is threatening to go to war with America...now THAT'S patriotism for ya!!
Diamond...the punishment for treason in America IS death...there was a married couple who were put to death for selling secrets to the Russians back in the 50's..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Treason carrie a life sentence in most countries. It used to be death. This is a VERY strong deterrent, you would think.
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And I also agree that an attempt should not be judged as actually committing treason as well! But my opinion doesn't really count and I'm glad I am not the judge of such a case!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
He went into this knowing full well what might happen if he got caught...He is in a foreign country and thus subject to its rules and punishments. Stupidity is not a good reason for committing such an act.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
That may be true but does not mean that most countries rightly judge according to compassion and overlooking a persons mistakes. Which is the Islamic method!
Also as tigi mentioned we have to look at the world around us and consider it for a moment! And be sympathetic of the mans condition.
As well as test him to make sure he truly is sorry and has gained understaning of why such a thing is wrong. By first getting down to what caused him to do so in the first place.
However, I am not saying it isn't Qatars discretion nor unislamic to give him a harsh sentence. Obviously it is, and yes he did know the rules when entering the country. And he took a gamble with his own life.
I just pray that whoever is the judge of such a case to use compassion, fairness and insight into judging this man according to Islam. InshAllah ameen. May Allah guide us all and forgive us all.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
i am with you Tig.. i also think , the sentence must be depended on what kind of info (if any) has been delivered. The guy said, it only was attempt. So attempt must be treated as attempt only. Let’s say, the one who attempted to commit the crime is treated differently from the one who actually has committed one. Yes, selling the info (or trying to sell it) is a big crime. But the guy haven’t transferred any information… who knows, even he was not caught, maybe he would stop at the last moment, and wouldn’t finish it. You never know. Sometimes we think we can do something, but at the last moment we realize, that we cannot. I mean, he has not actually done anything. Well.. for attempt the sentence should be different.. I think about 5-6 years would be enough, ‘specially as we said, his life is ruined anyway..
Personally, I found the daughter's letter very moving. Also, I know some Canadians who lived in the same compound as the family and they have corraborated the whole of the daughter's story. I think this guy should be very proud of his kids. He must have done something right to have such exceptional children.
I hope that the father is freed in the next couple of years. I think the Emir is an exceptional man and that Sheikha Moza is a wonderful woman. I know that they are both compassionate and pragmatic and I suspect that they will help ensure that this man is quietly released in a couple of years to be with his family.
My understanding is that Downs was attempting to sell his secrets to Iran. This was indeed treason and a serious crime and I am sure the harsh sentence was to deter future attempts at the same thing. He deserves a serious punishment there is no doubt. But nobody died or was hurt and abused and this guy has lost everything. Most of all, his children have been severly punished for something they had no part in.
Sometimes, gentleness is the strongest act.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Treason carries a high penalty in most countries. Qatar is no exception.
-------------------------------------
My feelings exactly tigi.
And to be fair, part of islams reasoning as well. Such a hard stance towards people who make mistakes is taken Because they feel if they show weakness people will take advantage.
I believe compassion, consideration, and forgiveness is the first priority when being a judge of others. As those who are unfair and unjust will have a very painful torment.
And if given time to reflect, such as this man, most people will truly regret their mistakes and never do them again.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
My perspective is that he committed treason against my country and my patriotic side prevents me from my usual compassion and sympathy.
However, I do know that he will not serve anything close to the full 25 years.
At the moment, IMHO, after three years, he still belongs in jail.
-------------------------------------
The guy was stupid and greedy and he betrayed the trust of many people. But come on, he didn't kill anyone or rape anyone and he acted out of greed rather than malice. Is that any worse than a drunk driver killing a pedestrian? Is it worse than a rapist or a thief? We all know that in this country and in many others people are corrupt, greedy dishonest and sometimes downright cruel and murderous and they get off with much less than life imprisonment. I have no doubt that this guy is genuinely remorseful and for one, I hope that the Emir who is an intelligent and compassionate man, pardons him.
Vegas is right. This guy's life is ruined and he has lost everything. I hope he gets the chance to live the rest of his life in a meaningful way and that he gets to see his children and the rest of his family.
In the course of my business here and elsewhere, I have seen corruption on a grand scale that even when discovered goes unpunished because the companies involved do not want the bad publicity. This guy was dumb and dishonest. He messed with QP (the country's treasure chest) and he has served three years. I think two more years and deportation would be fair. Keep things in perspective people, think of the maids who get raped, beaten and sometimes murdered throughout the world, think of the mass exploitation of the poor and uneducated and the perpetrators walking free. This guy's offense while stupid, dumb and greedy is not on the same level. Life is too much.
Lets have some compassion and reason.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
mmm
Glad I am not the one who is the judge of such situations! I pray that whoever does is just and considerate!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
what's up PM me...
You can't teach experience...
Chum that is a VERY good point... very!
mmmm
because with what he knows and what he has shown he is prepared to do .... he may very well 'cash in his chips' somewhere else...
who was he trying to give the info too in the first place?
Vegas call me
[img_assist|nid=50852|title=hmm|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
I mean his life is ruined anyway...
what kinda job he gonna get??
I wonder what makes a person think they can get away with it...
Anyway...Its up to the Big Guy...
Not us...
You can't teach experience...
thanks for your candid post and my sympathy goes to you too - good point that character is made before incarceration.
this gentleman obviously had an education, a job and a family.... things many people never have...but it wasn't enough.
I am sorry to say that I recognize this sort of apology all too well. Having had brothers who went to prison for drug use, they were all too happy to apologize after they were caught. You do not become a moral and upstanding character after incarceration but before. It is not impossible for one to rehabilitate after incarceration, but I am reminded of the saying that "a tiger does not change it's stripes". I wish this fellow the very best and would have wished that he would have had the forethought to consider his actions with a bit more scrutiny before he acted.
The ones I feel most sorry for are his children and his wife. They commited no wrong doing but must suffer for the ill thought actions of this individual, my sympathies are for them.
Actually if Qatar grants the kids a visa to come here and gives them a job...i think that is being amazingly tolerant to the point of foolishness...
especially as the viewpoint that his actions were 'a lapse'
Sounds like one of those serial killers that found God. "Yes I killed 7 people BUT I believe in Christ now!"
Arkie treason is not just |acting to overthrow one's government". Treason is a form of betrayal, and in this instance the State which gave him his bread and butter.
Remorse is a wonderful thing after you are serving the time for doint the crime. Is he indeed sorry for what he did or sorry her got caught and ruined his life?
Your brother was living in Qatar employed by Qatar Petroleum. He was therefore subject to Qatari law, it's process and procedures. He knew full well that what he was doing was breaking the law. He therefore has t0 suffer the consequences of his actions.
While I sympathise with you and your family members anguish, your brother knew full well what he was doing and where he was doing it.
-------------------------------------
Welcome to Qatar. He should have been aware of what country he was selling "old" information in.
Treason--acting to overthrow one's government? My brother tried to make some easy money by offering to sell old data, yes, but how can one determine whether or not a trial is fair and a life sentence just when it is top secret, closed to family, media,etc.
Gotta agree with DG and Oryx, open your eyes kid, your father cared more about money then you. It's all well and good now that he's sucking up to you, but what was he thinking when he commited and act of treason in a foreign country. Obviously, despite the adverterous vacations you claim he took you on, he didn't think he had enough money, or care about being around you and your brothers.
The guilty party has admitted he made a 'mistake' (a calculated plan called treason). Yet on the website by his daughter the heading is 'American Wrongly Sentenced to Life...'. And in the narrative the daughter says he was unjustly slapped with a life sentence.
No.
John Downs was found guilty of treason, a crime he has admitted to. The sentence for this is life (25 years).
THAT is not a mistake. THAT is justice.
-------------------------------------
And your mother who you are so HARSH about has committed far less a crime than your father...
it is so illogical that you plead for your father and yet are so condemning of your mother...
go and look after your mother...and it is a pity you can't show her the understanding that you criticise her for not having.
What do you expect when her husband screwed everything up BIG time for greed?
I "Baldricked" the name and came up with some stuff as above.. Apparently an appeal to the Supreme Court of Qatar is in process..
Better to stay clear of this story..
wow I am reading the link
you term it your father's 'lapse of judgement'....
its high treason! that puts many many people in danger..
lapse of judgement is putting on the wrong pair of shoes with a dress!
And if he has put many people in danger by committing espionage then sorry he does deserve to be in prison.
Your father did NOT consider you when he committed this pre-meditated crime which would have taken some planning.
This was a man prepared to sacrifice his family for greed ...not himself for necessity.
I am sorry your father betrayed you like this... but i certainly uphold Qatar's right to incarcerate him.
I feel sorry for your children and your wife that you have put in this horrible situation for something that was clearly greed. It does not sound that you had to do this to put bread on the table or something else that would atleast have a valuable explanation for what you have done. Now you dont like the sentence you have been given, I understand. I would not either, but then again I would not try to sell, what seems to be state secrets!
As I said, I feel sorry for your family. They are paying the price for your greed. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Aisha-Taweela
My heart goes out to the family...
apparently Mr Wesley's didn't.... as for a second shot (LOL) at life... i dont know if this man doesn't pose a danger.
a great danger to many innocent people if he had suceeded in his greedy plan
ok, but in this discussion, I would be interested to hear peoples opinion what is a realistic prison sentence for this.
Life?
5 years?
10 years?
etc..
Its state security...
starving women prostitute themselves to feed children..
he wanted money - but was he starving? and was he prepared to compromise himself? NOOOOOOOOOO!
he was prepared to compromise
a-a country
b- a company
c- his family
d- others??? depending on the info?
all of which had put trust into him.
he is an adult male who took a calculated concious decision - he is sorry because he didn't get away with it and got caught...
would he write this post if he hadn't been caught?
let's see, arranging to sell classified information to an unfriendly government and then getting caught in the act?
That sounds like treason...if it were an Arab stealing secrets in the US....well, let's just say he'd be in "rendition" to Gitmo right now...
I don't know the full story apart from what is above, and provided in the link, but cannot remember anything in the Qatar 'Free Press' about this at the time.
Goverment/military secrets are one thing, but we are talking about a oil/gas company here!!!
He admits his guilt and should be punished to some extent ...... but life?
I'm interested to know the whole true story, this is a good start.
http://johnwdowns.com/blog/about/