there method of work is wrong.. but not the main cause. what they doing is good, but not in proper way..it is supposed to be done by Govt. of Saudia Arab in a proper way, to facilitate the pilgrims without creating price hike in rents. and i agree that some visit there just for the historical importance, but we have maximum whose believes are not proper in there believes, so to avoid those, now the other group of people are suffering and are unhappy of this.  

What happened to Fantaa? He seems to have been 'disappeared'

djellygg what was that? shame on you that you still on spellings ! slol,.

there are people who visit the historical places to pray there and there are others who go there just to see the places for their historical importance and understand.Why the need to sell these land to the Princes? Why cant the govt itself build affordable accommodations to cater to all the classes of muslims - be they rich or poor? 

 why a person go to Kaába? for religious purpose right?why one's mind will divert to Clock Tower? its all about belief, they are trying to give every facility to the pilgrims, i agree with all this reconstruction, we have a lot of people, who visit those historical places, and pray there, thinking that this is also very benificial... they want to keep people away from all that shirk.. people visit those historical places as part of Hajj and umrah, which is totally wrong.for me i think that extreme care made them little rude and now they don't care about these things.. what we in our mind count as holy places.

when the clock tower is hovering above the kaabah, the attention is gonna be diverted. 

There is something seriously wrong with the person if the worshipper allows him/herself to be distracted by a clock tower when worshipping near the Kaabah..

it is a hindrance to the worshipper. It takes the focus away from the Kaabah to the clock.The most important landmark is there - the Ka'abah.

I don't know. Perhaps it's just the need for a landmark - Like the CN Tower or Toranado Tower or Empire State Building.Does it hinder the worshippers ? I doubt it. 

brit have you been to Makkah recently?what was the necessity of the clock tower there?What is the necessity of a high rise palace there? 

We are beginning to digress from the initial point of the post.The worship is done in the Mosque - not in the hotels. There is nothing wrong with providing comfort for pilgrims. A good sleep, showers, good food etc can help the mid / body relax and focus on the prayers.I do agree with Stealth that more should be done for the poorer pilgrims. However, there are pleanty of one , two and three star hotels available also.

All this work just to accomodate me!  Gee thanks, but I'm not even allowed to go to Mecca. :(

Fatimah, I agree with you that rat is much less dangerous than shirk :). But I disagree with you that it is up to the rulers to judge and to decide to demolish the historic sites. Those sites not only belong to Saudis, but also to all muslims. One more thing, in my opinion, in his last period, our Prophet was much worried about "wahn" than "shirk", which is very true and should also be our focus, if we look at ummah condition right now.

it is not just the razing of historical buildings. Also the fact that rates of hotel rooms are going beyond what a common man can afford. The reasons provided for the expansion is just a facade. Basically whats happening is land grab by the princes in the guise of expansion and building towers.If they wanted they could have first demolished the palace thats overlooking the haram.What was the necessity of a clock tower right in front of the Haram. what is the use of luxurious rooms there? Are people going for fun there or serious prayers?Is this the example that the Prophet showed? 

exactly but always good thing are been focused from a wrong angle you can say that

btw.,, they are doing good job, they need proper space and facilities for those millions of people, who visit every year to Makkah for pilgrim..

thread is about the spell or the culture?

Yeah FathimaH, I'm wondering why...

But as you can see Reliable man up there was warning me to be careful of what I judge as "Shirk"(or should that be shirq?er...) 

Spelling Nazis....catchy phase. I'm gonna borrow that,I am!I agree it does seem a waste of all those beautiful prehistoric treasures but again I suppose to the authorities,as Brit pointed out,these count for little in comparision to what they fear may occur due these even being circulated around. I like to believe they know what they are doing! 

No one is blaming here to anyone for committing shirk.That’s a separate chapter related to religious Teaching section

We're  all getting a bit carried away.

The use of Mecca and Vegas was just a wheeze to get the attention of the reader. Vegas is glitzy and over the top - Makkah is not.

The real issue is what many see as the destruction of historical buildings and cultural history.  The Saudis don't attch culture and heritage to buildings - so they are happy to take down old structures and replace with modern ones.

Its all about what you beleive in.

John Lalay, you spoke my words :))

I fully support the right of an independent Palestinian State, and I suspect culture and hertage is extremely important to them - after all isn't that what a Palestinian State is all about? ie Past, present and future.However, what this has to do with the topic in-hand eludes me. Start a thread on the topic and I will join you there.

Shirk is taking partners alongside the worship of Allah. It also refers to taking partners besides Allah in worship. What did I judge to be shirk that is not?Any examples? But I agree with you that making Takfeer is by far a dangerous thing that is best handled by people with great knowledge or scholars which I am not!And Shirk is also far far more dangerous for a Muslim than rats infested homes so that's not a good example. Besides I believe the rulers have the right to do whats best for the betterment of their land, and Allah knows best.

many things are happening these days, and are more important other than to think about culture and heritages.btw, once again US will veto free palestine resolution in UN and as usual some of european's countries will keep quite other will be absent. ;) 

the world, the lives of the humans that we all share a planet with and taking an interest is far too over-appreciated these days.I might have some pictures of some cute bunnies somewhere; once I get labotomised that is.

Thanks to Adey and a Britain's newspaper for their great concerned about muslims heritages and culture.

makkah will be aholy place even if they removed all building around saudi...the holy place don take its power for scent of history but from the power of the holly quraan...... i don t like remove old buildings but that never decrease the importance of allah most holy place

makkah will be aholy place even if they removed all building around saudi...the holy place don take its power for scent of history but from the power of the holly quraan...... i don t like remove old buildings but that never decrease the importance of allah most holy place

Thanks for the link.......I have a few issues with their reasoning, not on any religious grounds, but on the fact that it had been spelt Mecca since before any arabic speaker decided what the 'correct' spelling was in 'English'.In the same way that the British have no right to tell the French thart the correct spelling is 'London' not 'Londres'. You can't insist on changing someone else's lanuage.However in the spirit of  international cooperation I will try to remember to spell it Makkah here on QL, but if I was writing to an native English speaking audience I retain the right to spell it 'Mecca', so  that everyone understood what I was writing about; 'Mecca' is the common usage and is the academic term for the city, whatever the Saudi's say. Very few have even seen the word spelt 'Makkah'Fair enough? :)  

Fatimah, you don't kill some rats at your house by burning the house, do you? Moreover, please be careful to judge things as  'shirk' as it is a very serious accusation.

it was me to high light first.. not fair :(

fyihttp://www.albalagh.net/food_for_thought/Makkah.shtml

wht u said is correct and the word what u mentioned in Arabic is the correct and the original form and we know that how we pronounce it in Arabic. So the best spelling goes with the pronunciation is 'Makkah' not Mecca. 

you're finally here :)

I don't want to be turned into Mecca

I think the comparisons are between the bling architectual style, catering for the wealthy and the mentality of 'build it big and they will come'I understand the concept of shirk (or shirq, for spelling nazi's- although I am sure someone will come up with a third version!) but removing history is a bit far - to understand history in no way equates to idolitry or worship.As I said in the OP - Saudi's country and they can do with it whatever they like - no problem with that...........but there were many Meccan's and Saudi's objecting to the current demolition and rebuilding.If they don't want the 17th century Ottoman pillars - I'll have them, would make a lovely decorative feature, I love that kind of stuff. Or give them to a museum somewhere.

Must be the winds of change blowing across the place.

LoL @djellygg - it's pronunciation  :P :)  

hey fanta cool,,,shame on you to criticized that comment,,,see how you spell  (pronounciation supposed to be),,,,ha ha  ha,,,,,you fool,,,,,,

All the expansions are much needed, hats off to the Saudi Government to make sure facilities keep increasing for the pilgrims.I have seen many Asians sitting and praying at cave Hira entire day, while missing the Fardh salah offered in Grand Mosque in Makkah where if they prayed, in that time, they would have got huge reward... the house of Prophet(PBUH) is not a place of worship but people used to go there to pray...Hats off the the authorities to try and keep the Holy city free from Shirk and Biddah...May Allah reward them all...Aameen.

Thank you for your respectful reply.......unlike 'Rage Boy' Fantaa.In point of fact there is no proper spelling in English of the city. It is a matter of preference. In some parts ofv the world indeed it would be spelt 'Makkah'...in other parts of the world no one would have even seen this spelling before because the norm would be to spell it as 'Mecca'Etymology and usage"Mecca" is the original English transliteration of the Arabic and is the most commonly used form in English dictionaries,[9] by international organizations in their English language literature[10] and in academic writing.[11][12]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeccaBecause accents, pronounciatons and languages using Roman charecters are different all over the world there is no universal spelling of the word only regional preferences and norms.The only true way to spell the word is in the Arabic thus:   مكة

it is Makkah not Mecca

ROFL at the comparison! And the arabs will say "what happens in Mecca stays in Mecca".. Nah! On a serious note then I agree with Ghazalz. Modernization of a city isn't un Islamic and these sites are not been destroyed for un Islamic reasons but simply to prevent and stop the practice of shirk becoming widespread. This was what our Prophet, His sahabah, and the pious predecesors wanted and established in this sacred city. And that is by far the "landmark"of Mecca most worthy of preserving!

you are rite

its pronunciation not pronounciation

A Moran???Lol......I hardly think it will be 'Vegas'........What stripjoints and casinos like???

I really couldn't care less.......just amused you get so upset about it.Btw do you kiss your mother with that mouth of yours?

Good point - something often misunderstood by outsiders.

yes britexpat it's a no win situation and besides the logic behind the demolition, they don't want to let all those places to be worshiped.

Nice play on words - since Mecca can have other meanings. :O(

ghazalz: You are correct. It is a no-win situation. The need to accomodate an increasing number of pilgrims requires expansion, hotels and infrastructure.

As the Arabic script can only be translated into Roman script phonetically there is no 'official' spelling of the city's name in English.I have seen it spelt Macca, Mekka, Makka, Makkah and Mecca. The most common usage is Mecca - which I have used direct from the article. Nice to see you follow your tag of a 'Chill Life' - so much hostillity at the out-set. Calm down dear! 

C'mon... to facilitate Pilgrim modernly ain't prohibited in religion.

Wow ! Fantaa ...! its more than enough but good one .

Whilst I personaly agree that the expansions have destroyed much of the heritage and culture in the two cities, the  Saudis have never held much credence to preserving "cultural" heritage.

Some religious sites have been preserved. I hope that the new voices will be heard and more care taken in the future.

Pronounsession and spellings? Ok :) :p

well, its sad to know that some holy or historical places for others are being commercialized.