Deism

Platao36
By Platao36

"Deism is the belief that a supreme God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation. It is in contrast with fideism, found in many forms of Christianity[1], Islamic and Judaic teachings, which holds that religious truths rely upon revelation in sacred scriptures and upon the testimony of other people as well as reasoning.

Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God has a plan for the universe, which he does not alter by intervening in the affairs of human life nor by suspending the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in the United Kingdom, France and the United States, mostly among those raised as Christians who found they could not believe in either a triune God, the divinity of Jesus, miracles, or the inerrancy of scriptures, but who did believe in one god. Initially it did not form any congregations, but in time deism led to the development of other religious groups, such as Unitarianism, which later developed into Unitarian Universalism. It continues to this day in the form of classical deism and modern deism. (...)

Critical and constructive deism

The concept of deism covers a wide variety of positions on a wide variety of religious issues. Following Sir Leslie Stephen's English Thought in the Eighteenth Century, most commentators agree that two features constituted the core of deism:

* The rejection of revealed religion – this was the critical aspect of deism.
* The belief that reason, not faith, leads us to certain basic religious truths – this was the positive or constructive aspect of deism.

Deist authors advocated a combination of both critical and constructive elements in proportions and emphases that varied from author to author.

Critical elements of deist thought included:

* Rejection of all religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
* Rejection of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious "mysteries".
* Rejection of the Genesis account of creation and the doctrine of original sin, along with all similar beliefs.
* Rejection of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other religious beliefs.

Constructive elements of deist thought included:

* God gave men reason.
* God exists, created and governs the universe.
* God wants human beings to behave morally.
* Human beings have souls that survive death; that is, there is an afterlife."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

By Platao36• 15 Dec 2008 22:24
Platao36

"do you believe in Genies or extra terriistoral activities or the knowledge of unseen"

Of course i do, or do you belive that in such a huge universe, we are the only inteligent life form?

What do u mean by : "the knowledge of unseen" ?

You mean spirits? Of course i belive them, i'm not the only one who has spoken with them.

Ofc, and that's good, we are always learning, so that later we can reasoning about it

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By frozen tear of love• 15 Dec 2008 20:51
frozen tear of love

Platou: No I was just anwering your particular question about Qareen, but do you believe in Genies or extra terriistoral activities or the knowledge of unseen. Do you have that phenomenon that a person can predict without seeing that who is knocking on the door and what could be the reason simple guess or some other stuff?

The purpose of above discussion is just to know different beliefs and concept without any intention of convincing anyone you are freely express yourself like you are always doing my purpose is to put topics that you might never heard of.

By Platao36• 15 Dec 2008 15:18
Platao36

Frozen: hmmmm, we don't belive in evil, satan, dark angels, etc....

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Keith Brown• 15 Dec 2008 15:02
Keith Brown

Deism , is the belief in A god, not necessarily a singular or specific ONE god ,,,as in Deity,,,a god or goddess.

By Keith Brown• 15 Dec 2008 15:02
Keith Brown

Deism , is the belief in A god, not necessarily a singular or specific ONE god ,,,as in Deity,,,a god or goddess.

By frozen tear of love• 15 Dec 2008 08:21
frozen tear of love

Platao: No Qareen doesnt mean a spirit, As per Islamic methology each person is having two angels deployed over each of his shoulder to keep a note of his good and bad deeds similarly a Qareen is also deployed to try and keep him off the good path. Qareen is said to be a desciple of satan most probably a Genie made of smokeless fire.

So when a guys deceased the angels duty is over but this qareen will continue on earth thats the reason it can tell all about even a deceased person's extremely hidden secrets and appearing in the form of deceased person or sounding like him is nothing difficult for him.

In Asia or subcontinent this entity is also known as Hamzad.

Most of fortune tellers are using him to know about your past when you are visiting them, specially people who are good in possesing a Genie they will give you any detail of your past just with the help of this entity.

By Platao36• 15 Dec 2008 01:44
Platao36

Frozen: Qareen means spirit?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By frozen tear of love• 15 Dec 2008 01:18
frozen tear of love

Sorry i am commenting late on your above post if you want to know the reference form islam that how a spirit can tell it all you should check the referral as "Qareen" as per Quran.

By coelacanth• 15 Dec 2008 00:08
coelacanth

Jalyefizor...thanks! Treasure filled of information!

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Jalyefizor• 11 Dec 2008 17:21
Rating: 2/5
Jalyefizor

A good source of links to additional information about Deism can be found at Deist Links

By Platao36• 15 Nov 2008 15:14
Platao36

Muhandis: "Only God knows the ultiate truth..." Fully agree with you

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 15 Nov 2008 07:09
Rating: 4/5
anonymous

"If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which you dispute" (Quran 5:48)

Only God knows the ultiate truth...

By coelacanth• 14 Nov 2008 20:49
Rating: 5/5
coelacanth

Muhandis, I appreciate your clarrification with the matter, but the thought of having division in your Religion, whether be it insignificant and tolerable, is still division. Shiite and Sunni can pray on each other's Mosque, but that doesn't mean that they share the same view with religion. What's in their heart is what would matter. Same thing with Christianity, who unfortunately, has the MOST number of breakaway groups, and most of the NEWFOUND Religions are being used for fame and money.

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By anonymous• 13 Nov 2008 14:32
anonymous

The act of terrorism is completely rejected by Islam. Even in war, Muslim is requested to stop the war if the enemy stops it. You can find it in Quran chapter 2:193 and chapter 8:39.

Furthermore, Quran condemns the act of killing human without proper reason and give very high appreciation in saving human life as mentioned chapter 5:32: "whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind"

What I found is that most of act of terrorism was caused by incomplete understanding of religion. Some of them are also done for political agenda.

Both Sunni and Shiite are Moslems, because both have the same pillars of Islam. Sunni can pray in Shiite Mosque and Shiite can pray in Sunni Mosque. The difference is insignificant and tolerable.

Only God knows the ultimate truth..

By Platao36• 13 Nov 2008 14:24
Rating: 4/5
Platao36

Coelecanth: I'm sure that most of our muslim brothers don't share Bin Laden views. Those extremist have their own interpretation of the Qur'an and it's not the correct one according to several muslim scholars. Taliban have a strict vision on Qur'an.

It's not only the Qur'an that has so many interpretations, all "revealed" religions have the same prob, if they had been truelly given by God, there wouldn't have been so many contradictions amongst them.

Deism laughs on all those that pretend to be God's choosen ones ;)

And belive me that's not exclusive of Islam but all revealed religions have same prob.

God / Allah gave us reason for some reason ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 13 Nov 2008 12:58
coelacanth

Come to think of it...does Muslim people support the crusade of Osama Bin Laden, where they are claiming that what they are doing is based on Qu'ran? Is the Taliban way of life really what was written on the Qu'ran? If Muslim people will disagree with the Taliban, what version of Qu'ran are they reading that lead them to conclude that IT IS the way of life that was taught in Qu'ran? If they will agree, how come they (Taliban) are the only one following it? Only one book, but SOOOOOO MANY Interpretations. That's why there is DIVISION even inside the SAME RELIGION. Islam has Sunni and Shiite, Christians have the following: Born Again (which is again divided into different sub categories), Catholic (which is divided into Roman and Orthodox), Protestant (which is again divided into different categories) and so on and so forth

Don't you guys see the absurdity of Religion? You follow the same book, yet there is division among you! That's why you became the LAUGHING STOCK of DEISM. Deism = belief in One God + Reasoning. They were divided because they are trying to reason out their belief on the book, and their Allegiance is not with the teaching, but the Teacher. If the teacher decided to leave, the students will leave. Believe in God and reason out, you won't see any division.

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 13 Nov 2008 12:32
Platao36

Muhandis: Thanks for the reference, i'll check it out.

Kenyaqueen: "The God that I know does not want me to blow people up on its behalf, does not want anyone to be better than others."

Exactly, a perfect being as God can't have favourites or he wouldn't be perfect.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 13 Nov 2008 07:36
Rating: 4/5
anonymous

I admit that so many people use religion for their own benefit. But I have to be fair as well that the religion had brought so many good things in our life, especially at the time when people buried their daughters alive, the religion changed it tremendously and taught people how to treat their wife and daughters nicely through the person showing perfect example. That's why it's very important to look back to the perfect example, whether what's done by any person in the name of religion, was actually taught by the religion or not.

Only God knows the ultimate truth

By kenyaqueen• 13 Nov 2008 07:17
kenyaqueen

its all nonsense, these holy books were written by a few dirty old men who were bored back in the days, they were written to keep people in control-especially women. Although some of the teaching in these books are moral I can't believe that people follow the teachings of these books. These teaching depress people and again especially woman. The God that I know does not want me to blow people up on its behalf, does not want anyone to be better than others. But I kinda like this Deism thing-sign me up lol!

I am always excited to go to sleep! In anticipation of the new experience I will find awaiting me.

By anonymous• 13 Nov 2008 05:27
Rating: 5/5
anonymous

About the flood you can find it in Quran chapter 29 verse 14. It's mentioned there that Noah age was about 950 years. You can also find the story in chapter 10 verse 73, and chapter 11 verse 38 - 48.

Coelcanth, the situation at that time was completely different from now. What we think weird at this time not necessarily weird at that time. From one child to the others, they were separated by hundreds of years.

Only God knows the ultimate truth...

By Platao36• 12 Nov 2008 22:52
Platao36

Coelcanth: I don't need to ask them, it was already asked, they are free to communicate with the living, if their actions are considered meritory by God, their spirit will get closer to Him, in spiritism we belive there's 9 levels of spirits being God lvl 0, the lowest spirit lvl is 9, in opposition to "revealed" religions we don't belive in evil but in irresponsability, a good example would be: If a litle child breaks a glass, is she evil? The answer would be NO, she broke it because she hasn't leurn not to do it or how to prevent, in the same way, a spirit may do "evil" actions, not because he's evil but because he hasn't leurned yet that he shouldn't do it.

Spirits will be constantly reencarnated in physical bodies to test them and allow them to get experience and in the futuer be able to help God on his several tasks.

If you wanna know more, i advise you reading "The Book of Spirits", and no, it isn't an "Holly Book" but just a book that contains all the concepts on spiritism, if you find anything that may confuse you, feal free to ask, ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 12 Nov 2008 21:00
Rating: 2/5
coelacanth

Muhandis, even if they lived for a thousand of years, would you want to have sex with your sister? Bible God disaproves INCEST, and then he will allow it for the case of Adam and Eve's Family? Don't you find it a bit WEIRD? What's logical about that?

Platao, it's Genesis 19:30-38 :p I searched thru google and this is what i got. Anyway, i remember you being a spiritist, maybe in your next session with our FRIENDS in the after life, you can ask them about the existence of HEAVEN or HELL because if there is one, how come they are still here on earth with us. My 3rd eye isn't that open, though i can feel their presence, i can't see them.

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 12 Nov 2008 19:53
Platao36

cOELCANTH: tHINK I FOUND IT, CHECK Genesis 12(30-38).

Muhandis: Thanks, is there any reference, in Qur'an, that specifies about the flood events? If there is, mind pointing me where it is? Thanking in advance :)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 12 Nov 2008 18:28
Rating: 4/5
anonymous

it is not mentioned in Quran that the scope was world scale. In my perception, the animals taken with him were only for the survival of his people.

About Adam and Eve in Quran, it's not mentioned about how many people they generated. But I think it's logical that they could generate huge number of people considering they lived for thousands of years.

Only God knows the ultimate truth….

By Platao36• 12 Nov 2008 15:43
Platao36

Dm: I belive in SOME OF jESUS words but i don't consider him a profet, the bible has some contradictions regarding him too, so, i consider him at the same level as the Budist

Ghandi, only difference is that i don't have any witness from Jesus words, while Ghandi still has alive former companions OR IF YOU PREFER, DESCIPLES (sorry caps).

How do i know what's right or wrong?

Well, since i was litle kid i leurned not to do to others what i wouldn't like them to do to me.

"Do you think that good people are the same as criminals or people doing heineous crimes?"

Of course not, but you need to think that life is like school, or if you prefer like a company where you work,

the good students/workers keep heading forwarder, the bad students/workers will have to improve themselfs if they wanna be at the same level as the good student/worker.

Don't forget that in spiritism there is no evil we call it unresponsability.

Coelcanth: Can you tell me who was the old guy in the bible that had sex with his daughters and servant because "Bible's God" couldn't make his old wife fertile to have children?

I don't think it was lot because his wife was turned int a salt statue when they left Sodom and she looked behind.

The Great Flood is spoken in several Holly books, but of course, it wasn't universal, how could just 1 couple of each specie to repopulate the world in, lets say, 500 years?

Similar situation may have happened with Adam and Eve, how could they generate thousands of people in the same 500 years to populate earth with humans and all so different?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 12 Nov 2008 11:20
coelacanth

dmightysolomon...Eternal Damnation (Hell) is part of the "revealed religion's" teaching. The only one who can really tell whether there is Heaven or Hell are the dead ones. Unfortunately, we can't ask them about the reality of this, and the souls that are still walking in the face of the earth can't even tell it's existence.

You want some proof that the Bible is wrong? Read this: Deuteronomy 23:2-3, which says that NO BASTARD (children born out of wedlock) or HALF BREED or MOABITE or AMONITE shall enter the assembly of the Lord; even to the tenth generation none of his descendants shall enter the assembly of the Lord FOREVER.

That is to say both David and Christ ARE ACCURSED BY GOD because of their Moabite ancestry via Ruth the Moabite who married Boaz, cf. Ruth 4:13-22 and 1 Chronicles 2:1-15 enumerating King David's descent from Ruth the Moabite. In David's case, he is a "3rd generation Moabite" in descent, he should NEVER had been allowed to be Israel's king or Messiah.

Jesus Christ, according to Deuteronomy 23:2-4 is disqualified as being God's annointed Messiah for the following reasons:

1. He has Moabite blood via Ruth (Ru 4:13-22), the greatgrandmother of king David.

2. He has Ammonite blood via Naamah (1 Ki 14:21,31) the wife of king Solomon and mother of king Rehoboam.

3. He is a descendant of Ben-ammi, A BASTARD who was conceived in an incestuous act between Lot and his younger daughter (via Naamah's Ammonite ancestry).

Note: a bastard is a person born outside of holy wedlock or marriage. We are not informed Lot "married" his daughters.

4. He is a descendant of Moab, A BASTARD who was conceived in an incestuous act between Lot and his older daughter (via Ruth's Moabite ancestry).

All this is to say on the basis of the Holy Spirit inspiring Moses to pen Deuteronomy 23:2-4, neither David or his descendants, including Jesus Christ, should have ever been allowed to be a part of the Holy Congregation much less be portrayed in the Bible as God-approved annointed Messiahs and leaders of the Holy Congregation!

And, had Phineas been alive in the days of Boaz and Ruth as well as the days of Solomon and Naamah he probably whould have slain them like he did Cosbi the Midianite daughter of Moab and her Israelite husband.

A Holy Spirit that bears witness against itself with contradictions is not real, its bogus and so too is the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments.

http://www.bibleorigins.net/MoabiteBloodMessiah.html

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By anonymous• 12 Nov 2008 09:30
Rating: 4/5
anonymous

unless you can prove the Bible is wrong, then maybe.....

Even science can not disprove it!

And Platao, Good am also to you, you mentioned that you learned God because you were a former Catholic before, means you learn it from the books and not thru natural thing.

How do you know now what is right and wrong? As I've said, without rules or guidance, you can not differentiate the two, but would you agree that all men will be saved from hell? Do you think that good people are the same as criminals or people doing heineous crimes?

If all we care about is nature, nature can be sometimes brutal and again, do we blame God for these misfortunes men are experiencing. It is precisely men deviated from God words that all evil things are happening now. All worst things that are happening now were all foretold before, only one thing is left, THE END OF THE WORLD WHICH IS ALSO JUDGMENT DAY!

Can science disprove anything written in the Bible? Please cite one!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By coelacanth• 12 Nov 2008 07:23
coelacanth

Junx...Adam and Eve is the "Revealed Religion's" representation of the first people on earth. The question which i had in my mind since i was a child was, if they are the "First Family" to be ever created, why did God marked Cain after he killed his brother so that anyone who would try to kill Cain would be punished? Who would try to kill them if they are the only people created? It means, we did not come from Adam and Eve. There were other people living with them. The author of Genesis is probably the Leader of the Tribe then, who he presented themselves to be the 1st Family of their tribe.

dmighty: How could you be so sure that the "GREAT FLOOD" that happened in the time of NOAH also happened in the rest of the world? If the Bible really came from God, then they should have included text from different parts of the world. Why only focus on the happenings in Israel? Do you believe that God only favors the Israelites, as what is written on the Bible?

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 17:01
Rating: 2/5
Platao36

A.k.a.: Taoism is pretty similar to Deism, just like confuncius too.

"Reverence for nature and ancestor spirits is common in popular Taoism. Organized Taoism distinguishes its ritual activity from that of the folk religion, which some professional Taoists (Daoshi) view as debased. Chinese alchemy, astrology, cuisine, several Chinese martial arts, Chinese traditional medicine, fengshui, and many styles of qigong breath training disciplines are intertwined with Taoism throughout history."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By a.k.a• 11 Nov 2008 16:42
Rating: 2/5
a.k.a

Platao...can't say that statment applies to me as I don't know what to believe in. I don't believe in creationism, dont believe there is one enity responible for creating the universe. Don't believe there is a god just because nature exists. I know there is something spiritual, and for ease of conversation, I use the word God, could use Fate just as easy. I am still reading up and trying to match what I read to what i have experienced and feel and really, now you've mentioned Deism, however don't think I believe in a Creator, I'll look into it and put looking into taoism aside.

Mind you, I was happy with my belief system and it wasn't until I came here that I needed to label it, so out of curiousity, I'm seeing if I can.

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 16:26
Platao36

"As humanity learns more about science and the universe, our concepts of the Creator will correspondingly grow. This is the only way we can learn more about God: through the honest study of the Creator's creation, not through contradictory books written by men but claiming inspiration and revelation from God. "

source: http://www.deism.com/beautydeism.htm

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 16:15
Platao36

DM: Lol :D

a.k.a.: "Natural Religion: Belief in God based on the application of reason on the laws/designs of Nature as opposed to revealed religion which is based on alleged revelations."

Junx: I'll make a post concerning Adam and Eve and how Deists see it ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By JunX• 11 Nov 2008 16:02
Rating: 3/5
JunX

Orite..There are people here, who think like me...Gr8. I have a question which i had in me since childhood.. I had asked my religious master regarding this doubt and he called my parents and dismissed me.........Hope no1 minds..

According to ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY, Adam and Eve are the first humans on earth..But, according to SCIENCE, Austrilopithecus, Lemur etc were the first humans, who resembled ape's and they proved it with fossils. So...Well.. I askd this to my master...

GET OUT was the answer....

By a.k.a• 11 Nov 2008 15:54
a.k.a

personally, yes, nature. It works wonderously, esp without human involvement. We are so out of touch its scary. We have lost our natural instincts from relying too heavily on our minds. Is there a God? There is something as God to me is a good as any label. I have experience in what some say is spiritualism, good enough name, so believe is there something.

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:51
anonymous

TYrust is what you use to prevent pregnancy!, Lol!

Bur seriously, if your reason is wrong and experience is not exact, then trust is not complete also!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:49
Platao36

You can only call a fact to something that you have proofs, world was flat because scholars said so, but that wasn't a fact.

a.k.a. : Look around you and tell me who created the Universe and all other living beings. Was it nature?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:43
Platao36

"Trust: Trust is confidence in a person or thing based on reason and experience."

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By a.k.a• 11 Nov 2008 15:43
a.k.a

What we percieve as facts are changing. it was once said as fact that the world was flat. Now the fact is it is round. Who knows, fact today, no one can prove god's existence without faith...tomorrow??

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:41
Platao36

Facts aren't changing, just our knowledge is increasing.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:38
Platao36

MD : Deism isn't that recent, but more recent than the revelation ones

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:35
anonymous

do you have complete facts, fact are changing constantly that's why conclusions are also updated!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:22
anonymous

Trust, my friend platao, could be as dangerous as belief. I think the best way is to find out for yourself. It's your life after all.

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:18
anonymous

let me talk to your wife, maybe I can convince her!, Lol!

When you believe in something that you don't see, that's faith, Platao! All people believe in reasons, a murderer has his own reasons. A rapist has his own. How would you be judged, Platao? Are all your reasons right, my friend?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:15
Platao36

MD: Yes i know, he's telling his opinion, i'll copy paste a bite more to clarify this statement.

"Faith: This word has been so terribly abused by "revealed" religions that it has come to really mean the suspension of an individual’s God-given reason in order to accept, or at least to tolerate, an unreasonable claim made by a "revealed" religion. It is the only way "revealed" religions can get people to accept such insane and unreasonable claims and ideas as original sin, walking on water, healing the sick without medical care, splitting the Red Sea, etc. Deists prefer to use the word "trust" instead of faith due to the twisted meaning the word "faith" has acquired after centuries of abuse from the "revealed" religions."

"Reason: The mental powers used with forming conclusions or inferences based on facts. Deists look at reason as the second greatest gift from Nature's God to humanity, second only to life itself.

Religion: A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe."

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:15
Rating: 4/5
anonymous

Platao, I was always hungry to read about things I am concerned with. Lately I had been disappointed even by books about physics. Too many assumptions, too few "real" evidence. If you come up with a new physics I'd be interested because current physics has many flaws. If you come up with a new religion I'd be interested, too, because current religions have all kinds of flaws. I doubt, however, that deism is free of flaws. The first flaw is the statement: God exists. I cannot accept it unless it is evident. So far I can't see any evidence for that assumption.

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:09
Platao36

lol MD

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:08
Rating: 3/5
anonymous

"It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason". Platao, read carefully; Voltaire says "to my mind". He doesn't claim that his ratio applies to anybody else.

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:08
Platao36

MD: I think you'll enjoy reading about Deism ;)

MS: No one is offended, think this is a contructive discussion ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:06
anonymous

thanks, dmigty. You are the first person who does understand me. Even my wife doesn't. Lol.

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 15:06
Rating: 4/5
Platao36

MS: Spiritists don't belive in evil and same happens with Deists, the God you are describbing isn't a perfect being, neither omnipotent or omnipresent. I already gave you God's definition in this post but i can give it again:

"God: The universal creative force which is the source of the laws and designs found throughout Nature."

"One key difference between Deism and the "revealed" religions is that Deists don't believe faith is required to believe in God. This quote from Voltaire sums it up, "What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason.""

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:03
anonymous

no offense meant! Good afternoon!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 15:00
anonymous

dmigty: all I enjoy would be forbidden if I would follow a religion. Since I don't do this nothing I enjoy is forbidden. Bingo.

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 14:58
Rating: 2/5
anonymous

it's your life basically, not mine. Those who perish in the time of Noah are also enjoying themselves!

And I'm afraid of you, MD, all you enjoy are forbidden. Ride on, man. You really don't need "guidance"!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 14:51
anonymous

dmigty, what is right or wrong? Why do you ask this question at all? You should ask: "Does it serve me as a means to survive or not?" Who gives a damn if it is right if it kills you, and who gives a damn if it's wrong if you enjoy it? Just a question. I would not "follow" anyone who suggests making my life more miserable. And that's basically what religion tries to do. Everything I enjoy is forbidden. I can live perfectly and happily without "guidance".

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 14:44
Rating: 2/5
Platao36

Sulman: I'm preventing to publish here any critic that would hit only Islam, but the 3 revealed religions are Christianism, Judaism and Islam.

"Deism is opposed to all forms of superstition. The reason we haven't focused on Islam and Judaism as much as Christianity is because in the US and other Western countries Christianity is dominant. However, with the tragic events of September 11, 2001, we will now cover Judaism and Islam more thoroughly. The ignorant superstitions of all three "revealed" religions are largely to blame for the violent attacks.

The "revealed" religion of Islam is full of absurdities. It's alleged "holy" book, the Koran, or Qur'an, is said to have been told directly from God, or Allah, to the angel Gabriel who then whispered Allah's "revelation" into the ear of Muhammad. Using the angel Gabriel shows the Koran has its roots in the Jewish superstitions of the Old Testament and the Christian myths of the New Testament. Mohamed Raza M. Dungersi, Ph.D, who wrote the preface to the Koran for Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., makes it clear the Koran and Islam are built on the older absurd myths of Judaism and Christianity when he writes in the preface, "As the Final Divine Revelation, incorporating and subsequently codifying all the earlier Revelations . . ." "

If you wanna read the rest of the document source is:

http://www.deism.com/islam.htm

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 14:40
anonymous

yes, you are right there, absolutely. But what is your guidance about what you are doing. What is right to you maybe wrong to Him? How sure are you, Platao? Punishment of God does not always comes swift but you are already being destined to hell, maybe (and still you don't know it).

Again, I will ask you, what is the basis of your reasons where you make it as basis for your belief? Who give reasons and where is it emanates?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 14:34
Rating: 5/5
anonymous

when God kill, it has reason, because you did not follow His specific instruction. If God tells you something, He will give you the consequences if you don't follow.

God did not just lay right and wrong before man, He ask man to follow what is right and specifically mention what is the goodness of following what is right and what's the consequences of doing what is wrong. God never punish anyone without a warning. He forewarned the first couple of the danger of eating the forbidden fruit and still they did, so they suffer the consequence. Then, the punishment is abrupt and swift, now the punishment is in the day of judgment so men tends to enjoy doing bad things because they taught they are not punish by God.

If now, you don't follow His commandment and you are not punish right away, it doesn't make the bad thing good but God is just too merciful to give you time to repent and return to Him.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By sulmansaeed• 11 Nov 2008 14:18
sulmansaeed

I must Say you guys just study Holy Islam, just for your knowledge but in the end then you will find what is belief and how we should spend our lives for others.

Every thing Regarding your life:)

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 14:15
Platao36

Coelecanth: Those priests weren't killed by God, but because the arch was a primitive battery.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 11 Nov 2008 14:11
Rating: 4/5
coelacanth

Well said...I read about that in the website. Most people are adamant to accept this belief because all our lives, we had followed the "revealed" religions without reasoning, therefore the reasoning only happens when people started bashing about your religion, and the tendency is to reason out based on what you lived to believe, not because you understood to believe. Take for example the book of Genesis, where God created Adam and Eve, Cain killed Abel and God marked Cain that whoever will kill him will be punished. Who will kill Cain when they are the "First Family" to ever created on earth? No one asked why is this possible.

Take for example the "Ark of the Covenant" in the book of Numbers, when the ark was about to fall, 2 of the priests tried to support the Ark to prevent it from falling, and what did God do to them? He killed them for preventing the Ark from falling. What kind of God is being presented on that scripture, a God who will kill you for nothing?

Belief in God + Reasoning = Deism. You don't need scriptures from the past to guide you in the future. You only need reasoning.

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 14:01
Platao36

DM: Ask him why scholars used to say that Earth was in the center of the Universe and why would God allow the Existence of the Inquisition?

If God destroyed Sodome an Gamorra, why he asked Moses to kill all the unbelivers?

Wasn't 1 of the commitments: You shall not kill? Why did he kill all egyption primogenits instead of using his powers to remove His people from Egypt?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 13:28
Platao36

Regarding child education i was just reading about it.

"All people are a mixture of good and evil. Some people are relatively good, while others are relatively evil. What accounts for this difference? One of the greatest factors is education. Children who are taught to be relatively good tend to stay relatively good, and children who are taught to be relatively evil tend to stay relatively evil. Deism is probably the best beginning for a personal philosophy because it is based on two great ideas.

The first of these great ideas is that we should base our beliefs on reason. Reason is one's ability to perceive reality as honestly and completely as one can, and then make logical conclusions based on what one perceives. Unless one is relying on reason, one is relying on superstitious thinking. Reason tends to embrace facts, and superstitious thinking tends to embrace superstitions. A superstition is a belief that is not based on reason. It is important to accept facts and reject lies because we have to understand reality to deal with it wisely. If a train is headed for us, we should use reason and get out of the way. We should not grab our lucky rabbit's foot and hope that the train misses us."

If you wanna read the full article: http://www.deism.com/deistlessonplans.htm

About profets, was Nostrodamus a profet? Didn't he profetize future events? Didn't most of his preddictions happened? ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 13:27
anonymous

science and Bible? I may not be a Bible scholar but any contradiction you will cite, I can always ask our preacher for an answer, directly from the Bible and not personal answer.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 13:23
anonymous

you have to believe in your teacher just as we believe in our Prophets.

By the way, even wars that you are saying were prophesied a long long time ago. That is why we believed in Revelations but not supertitions!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 13:19
anonymous

when a child is growing-up, who guide him, it's the parents or adults. Do you honestly believe that without someone, a child can learn to stand on his own. Who will teach him good manners? Who will teach him about God and everything that you believe in? I believe in One God. I don't believe in supertitions, I do believe in the sanctity of marriage, I do believe in the ten commandments but there must be somebody who will teach you all this knowledge. That is why God, let His commandments be written as a guide and appointed people to teach and preach. Now, it's your belief and faith that will guide you on your way to Him. And that way is what I called "religion"

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 13:16
Platao36

Dmighty: Deists difference is basically the question of the "revelations", we call "revealed" religions as supertitious. Anyone that understands politics will get to the same conclusion that "scholars" tried to use the "revealed" religion as a way to show that each one followers were God/Allah favourites, and what has that done to Human kind? Wars, Wars, wars and more wars.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 13:08
Platao36

Dmighty: Don't think anyone is offended, i do belive that we are here as a group of friends discussion this matters :)

I'll use the article i found to reply to your questions:

"where did you learn the word GOD? How did the first believer of Deism believe in the first place"

I was raised catholique, just as i stated previouslly, the first deists were Adam and Eve.

"Don't confuse religion to the organization?"

Deism is a natural religion but not a "revealed" one.

"Deism is defined in Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1941, as: "[From Latin Deus, God.Deity] The doctrine or creed of a Deist." And Deist is defined in the same dictionary as: "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason." "

"How do you define religion? Many religious organization believe as you do, One God but where lies the difference, you just don't want to join an organization (but what is freemasonry). Check the true meaning of religion before you disregard it!"

The main difference between Deism and the revealed religions is that Deists don't belive in the existence of profets and consider those messages given to profets as supertitions.

I think i can give some support on your question to Gypsy, during sometime people confused Deists with Atheist.

"God: The universal creative force which is the source of the laws and designs found throughout Nature.

Intelligent Design: Intelligent Design refers to the structures in Nature, such as that of DNA, which can be observed and the complexity of which required an intelligent Designer. In this context "structure" means something arranged in a definite pattern of organization. In Deism, Intelligent Design has absolutely nothing to do with the unreasonable Biblical myth of creation.

Natural Religion: Belief in God based on the application of reason on the laws/designs of Nature as opposed to revealed religion which is based on alleged revelations."

:)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 12:44
Rating: 3/5
anonymous

most of your belief are same as mine, but I have an organization I belonged to and I believe solely on the Bible. All your belief about One God is written in the Bible so at least in that aspect, we agree with each other.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By anonymous• 11 Nov 2008 12:41
anonymous

where did you learn the word GOD? How did the first believer of Deism believe in the first place. If history books were not written, where were we now? It's just that your belief is different from others, doesn't make religion wrong.

Don't confuse religion to the organization? The mere fact that you acknowledged Freemasonry means you agree with group or organization and it's the same as having your own "religion". How do you define religion? Many religious organization believe as you do, One God but where lies the difference, you just don't want to join an organization (but what is freemasonry). Check the true meaning of religion before you disregard it!

Coelacanth, you just happened to be on the wrong religion (as you say), that is why you are saying all of this. You have to keep searching, you are right, until all your question (in your mind and heart) is answered properly, don't stop your searching.

And Gypsy, I taught atheist doesn't believe in the existense of God, so how can you be similar with Platao? No offense, just asking?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 12:22
Rating: 4/5
Platao36

"Deism is opposed to all forms of superstition. The reason we haven't focused on Islam and Judaism as much as Christianity is because in the US and other Western countries Christianity is dominant. However, with the tragic events of September 11, 2001, we will now cover Judaism and Islam more thoroughly. The ignorant superstitions of all three "revealed" religions are largely to blame for the violent attacks."

source: http://www.deism.com/islam.htm

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 12:21
Platao36

Deism agrees that the 3 big faiths contribute to split Humans instead of getting them together, if we were made racionals by God, there must have been a reason, if he wanted us to follow him blindly, we wouldn't need to be different from the other living beings.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 11 Nov 2008 08:30
Rating: 2/5
coelacanth

Heero, that is where reasoning comes into action. When you join these groups, you don't reason out. you just join because everyone does. Bandwagon effect. After you join, then you'll start to realize that what you did wasn't the right thing, then comes reasoning and you started asking questions about their teachings. It happened to me...since college, my religion was "floating", meaning i keep on searching for a religion where i will not ask any question. I can't find one. I "blindly" chose the catholic faith because i grew up with it, lived with it, though i have hundreds of questions about the teaching. then Platao introduced Deism, which is EXACTLY my belief.

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By heero_yuy2• 11 Nov 2008 04:52
Rating: 2/5
heero_yuy2

Is there a best chance of survival of a person if he/she will have to take his/her own individualism rather than having his/her belief follow what your 'companion' also believes? Humans have a strange way of following one's belief. He doesn't understand his/her belief perfectly, but they easily fall prey to what 'others' believe, hence the multiple sects of each religion and the wars between them. But all I can say about religion is that people do not study it properly before having to 'join' each 'group'.

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

By Platao36• 11 Nov 2008 00:54
Platao36

MD: Thanks, i enjoyed the text you just posted and i agree with it, "In Nature nothing dies but all is transformed".

:)

"Deism is belief in God based on the application of our reason on the designs/laws found throughout Nature. The designs presuppose a Designer. Deism is therefore a natural religion and is not a "revealed" religion. The natural religion/philosophy of Deism frees those who embrace it from the inconsistencies of superstition and the negativity of fear that are so strongly represented in all of the "revealed" religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (These religions are called revealed religions because they all make claim to having received a special revelation from God which they pretend, and many of their sincere followers actually believe, their various and conflicting holy books are based on.) When enough people become Deists, reason will be elevated over fear and myth and its positive qualities will become a part of society as a whole. Then, instead of having billions of people chasing after the nonsensical violence promoting myths of the "revealed" religions, people will be centered on their God-given reason which will lead to limitless personal and societal progress!"

source: http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

It has more but i don't wanna to offend anyone leaving the link so people will decide if it's worth to read more or not.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By anonymous• 10 Nov 2008 21:35
Rating: 5/5
anonymous

The “will to live” or the “breath of God” is a spiritual circumscription of physical facts. The electric charge combines with its opposite charge. While this is a physical law observable in any situation in the universe and without exception it is nowhere understood as the underlying principle of “life”.

Two particles with an opposite electrical charge cannot but merge into a more complex configuration. Gravitation as another observable property throughout the universe supports this tendency with its unidirectional force concerning masses. It is clear that a more complex structure of simple entities achieves behavior which is not the property of the single part. It only exists as complexity and organization increase. Following the original affinity of its parts the complex objects develops the tendency to “survive”. The more complex and organized such object becomes the more it develops mechanisms to “survive”. The simple law is that “only the strongest survive”. There are no exceptions to this rule, either. The more complex or organized an object becomes the more successfully it can defend its existence which leads to the formation of groups, later families, societies, and states. Their basic function is to guarantee the survival of the species. The survival of the species may sacrifice a single member for the sake of the whole which requires rules of what and whom to sacrifice when. This leads to traditions, norms, and laws. They should be the best possible prescription to guarantee the survival. As new configurations appear frequently it is clear that the rules have to be adopted as frequently because they are facing new situations they were not formed for. A rule or law that stagnates achieves the opposite of what it was created for.

Religious books have to be altered constantly because the organization of humans alters constantly. The future behavior of mega societies is nowhere explained in any of the “holy” books. The rule makers were not confronted with such a phenomena at their times. Therefore they are not able to predict the behavior which guarantees the survival of such societies. At best they maintain a status quo under violation of the needs of the newly created organization forms. This must lead to conflict. It can be assumed that the “frozen” rules will not be sustained as they endanger the survival of the society. Wars based on religious differences are therefore medieval behavior at its best but they have no place in the world of 2008.

Nobody can foresee the future because future doesn’t exist. It is created at every instant including the space it needs to unfold. It must be observed and analyzed carefully and appropriate rules have to be designed continuously. They may or may not contradict the existing rules. Keeping the existing rules instead of adjusting them endangers the society. The world as it is right now is a living example of this challenge.

The more the human race understands about “the physics” of the universe the more the human race has to consider creating the set of rules that guarantee its survival. Since our current organizational form allows us the insight in physical laws we have the obligation to adjust old and worn out norms. They pose a real danger to society. That includes all religions.

Something for you, platao, from me.

By Platao36• 10 Nov 2008 21:16
Rating: 2/5
Platao36

Coelacanth: I was also raised Catholic, later on i started to read books and when i was leurning about Plato (greek philosopher) and his thoughts i started to doubt about the trueth in the Bible, one day, some of my friends were "playing" with an ouija table (table used to help spirits to communicate with humans), do notice i didn't belived in spirits at the time this happened, one of my friends asked me to join them at table because 1 spirit wanted to talk with me, so i joined them and decided to test the Spirit by making him questions that only i and the friend (the spirit identified herself as a former friend who had died 2 or 3 years before) in question knew, when he gave the correct answers i decided i would study more about it, later i started to make mediunic sessions alone, 2x i made with friends they were surprised that the spirits called would tell things that only they knew, one of the persons even asked me to stop , think it was kinda scary for her because she thought i was joking when i told her i could communicate with them and when the spirit started to say things that only they knew....she almost freaked out.

Later i read the bible again and a lot of events there were too contradicting and that they were showing God/Allah behaving as a human (Ex: When he created Earth, he had to check if everything was well donne, what kind of perfect being needs to confirm anything, if he's perfect he knows he did well).

Now i'm reading Qur'an, and i'm finding some contradicting stuff, just like i found in the Bible, like Adey once posted at forum, Humans created religion as a way to justify that some are better than others and every People likes to think that they are God/Allah's favourites, a perfect being has no favourites, he's 100% impartial.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 10 Nov 2008 20:06
Rating: 4/5
coelacanth

That makes 2 of us here...i am a firm believer of God, but not the Religion. I was born and raised a Catholic, but at a very young age (6 yrs old) i start to question the Bible. Glad i found out that my belief really exist, and there are other people as well. No wonder i really wanted to join Freemasonry!!

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 10 Nov 2008 18:45
Platao36

Coelcanth: Exactly, i found out that my belief is called Deism and from a spiritist point of view, it makes sense.

=========

"How did you know there is God? It just pop-out of your mind?"

dm: I belive in spirits and sometimes i go to mediunic sessions, do you know what are these sessions i'm talking about?

P.S. - Platao in portuguese is the same as Plato (find about this greek Philosopher at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato

I already made several references to his Allegory of the cave, at his book, "The Republic" .

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By coelacanth• 10 Nov 2008 17:27
Rating: 4/5
coelacanth

"In Nature's God I Trust". Glad to be called a Deist...Proud to be one!!!!

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By Platao36• 10 Nov 2008 17:09
Platao36

"where id you learn that belief?" (id = did?)

I didn't, i'm a spiritist, as so, we don't belive in human profets.

======

"How did it start?"

"Most deists saw the religions of their day as corruptions of an original, pure religion that was simple and rational. They felt that this original pure religion had become corrupted by "priests" who had manipulated it for personal gain and for the class interests of the priesthood in general." (article author's reply).

================

"What is the basis of your belief?"

"Deistic thinking has existed since ancient times (e.g., in philosophers such as Heraclitus and most especially Plato, who envisaged God as the Demiurge or 'craftsman') and in many cultures. The word deism is generally used to refer to the movement toward natural theology or freethinking that occurred in 17th-century Europe, and specifically in Britain.

Natural theology is a facet of the revolution in world view that occurred in Europe in the 17th century. To understand the background to that revolution is also to understand the background of deism. Several cultural movements of the time contributed to the movement."

(Again i use author's words because i agree with him in most things he says)

Will continue to reply in a few minutes.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Platao36• 10 Nov 2008 16:53
Platao36

DM: do you want my personal view or want to use article author's words?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

By Gypsy• 10 Nov 2008 16:18
Rating: 3/5
Gypsy

Sounds pretty similar to what I believe.

By coelacanth• 10 Nov 2008 15:54
Rating: 5/5
coelacanth

The difference with Religion and belief is that Religion has Law while belief has none. As mentioned, it is based on reasoning. Belief doesn't tell you that if you don't go to church, you'll go to hell when you die. Belief doesn't force you to put your fate on a book written thousands of years ago. Belief doesn't have any pattern to follow when you pray. No one will force you in your belief, while Religion is being forced starting from childhood.

I believe in God. Religion, nah! Religion = Division. Why believe on something that causes division among men? What's the point? What would happen to me if i don't have any religion? Will i go to hell?

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By coelacanth• 10 Nov 2008 15:45
coelacanth

Hmm...interesting...so that makes me a Deist, a believer of God, but not of Religion.

Anyone else?

It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!

By anonymous• 10 Nov 2008 15:41
anonymous

where id you learn that belief? How did it start? What is the basis of your belief? of your reason? How did you know there is God? It just pop-out of your mind?

Basically, you believe? and that's it! You just call religion another name!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

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