Britain - Hindus want Open Air Funeral Pyres.
This is what makes Britain Great!!!!!!!!!
A spiritual healer from Newcastle is battling at the High Court to lift the ban on outdoor cremations in Britain.
The single-storey council house in Gosforth, a suburb of Newcastle upon Tyne, looks just like any other prefab in the quiet cul-de-sac. Only when Davender Kumar Ghai's door bell is pressed and Sanskrit chants echo through the house are visitors made aware that this is not just a home, it is a living, breathing temple.
The 69-year-old Hindu spiritual healer has remained little known outside his band of devoted Hindu and Sikh followers. But should Mr Ghai's court action prove successful he may soon be acknowledged as the man responsible for the biggest shake-up of Britain's cremations laws in more than a century.
Mr Ghai, who was born in Uganda, will travel to the High Court next month to try to challenge a decision by Newcastle City Council denying him the right to an open-air cremation when he dies. His lawyers will argue that outdoor cremations fall outside of the 1902 Cremation Act, which regulates what goes on inside a crematorium but does not explicitly forbid outdoor burnings.
Speaking exclusively to The independent Mr Ghai, dressed in simple woollens and sitting on a throne of sculpted skulls, explained why he felt legal action is necessary. "The Hindus of Britain have never asked for anything," he said, running his hands through a thick, white beard. "But we're not asking for much, just to cremate our loved ones in the way our religion says it must be done."
In South Asia the vast majority of cremations for Hindus and Sikhs are held outdoors, often on the banks of a river that has been deemed holy. Although widely practised in the Sikh faith, outdoor cremations are not considered compulsory.
In Hinduism, however, there is more widespread agreement that the 4,000-year-old practice of open-air burning is the most spiritually appropriate way to release a soul from the body following death. Many Hindus believe that mechanical cremations lead to akal mrtyu (a bad death), where the soul is forced to mingle with other souls because it has not been able to escape.
"Open-air cremations are our birth right and our religious right," explained Mr Ghai. "The soul has to be released from the skull and allowed to go straight up into the air. Muslims and Jews have been given their own graveyards, they have been allowed to deal with their dead according to their religious needs but Hindus have been ignored." His lawyers will cite a number of precedents where outdoor cremations were either held with the support of the state or went ahead and were not prosecuted.
Andrew Singh Dogan, a former barrister who acts as legal co-ordinator for the society, believes Mr Ghai's fight mirrors that of William Price, a Welshman who successfully campaigned for the legalisation of cremations at the end of the 19th century.
"it took a while for Britain to accept the idea of cremations but nowadays we live in a society where more people are cremated than buried," he said. "I think once people understand what really happens during an open-air cremation they'll realise there is nothing to fear. We will come to accept them just like we learnt to accept normal cremations. it's not like we want to put some pyre on the banks of the Tyne, we'd find a space that is wholly private and away from public eyes where people who want to grieve next to the body of their loved ones can do so."
One of the difficulties Mr Ghai's followers face is resistance from leaders within their own community. Sikh and Hindu faith groups have been reluctant to show their support for his legal battle. The Hindu Academy has called open-air cremations an "antiquated practice" whilst the Hindu Council has also said that it does not support outdoor pyres. Only the Hindu Forum of Britain has made statements in support of the idea. its secretary general, Ramesh Kallidai, said: "Those who wish to exercise this choice of open-air funeral pyres in order to feel that they have done their religious obligation for their parents should be allowed, provided two conditions are fulfilled: that it does not break any law in this country and that it does not endanger anybody else in the vicinity in terms of health and safety."
Mr Ghai said that enough Hindus and Sikhs in Britain believe that open-air cremations are a vital part of their religion. "I believe a person should be able to live according to their religious beliefs and that we should accommodate that as long as it does not harm others," he said. "I cannot see how open air cremations in a private place away from the public gaze could harm anyone."
The Independent
staying where he is and shipping his body back when he passes away, so that he CAN get creamted in the open air where it is legally allowed.
Have missed your postings, Shreeya...where have you been??
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
That man must be seeking some cheap publicity by raising such out of the way issues. Personally I feel one must follow the rules of the country where we r staying. Ofcourse he is always welcome in India if he wants to get burned in an open air...lol..
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before posting!!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
hope you slept well last night.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
how are you? I understand that there is only one burnt at a time, but its just the odor and pollution that I can see England objecting to. I still say that the smell of burning flesh isn't something people who have not grown up with it, will get used to. Besides, asking a country that does not have the same background to change it rules and regulations to accomodate someone who isn't even a passporting holding resident, is really not acceptable. We also have a lot of creamotoriums in the US and they have filtration systems in them. I have no issues with creamation, but I do with open creamation when forced upon others.
As far as Hindu temples...I think they are lovely. We even have one in my town back home in Texas...small but its pretty and has quite a large attendance.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
You...you ignored my comments....?
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heya doll!how are you today,sweetie???
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
thanks a lot for the compliment,dear!both Winn and i believe in getting the facts out straight....no dilly-dallying and beating around the bush.....like many others.whatsay? :-)
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
sorry, I actually don't need "talking to"...I'm fine with things.
Might want to talk to Bubbly tho..she seems to have a real burr in her panties.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
ah....okay!i've heard it's really beautiful.hope to visit it someday :-)
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Love your ways of debating and keeping cool. I often find the people playing kinda trick here on QL..like say anything about anybody and then just go away with "Ohhh...I was just being a little sarcastic"...as if they are the forefathers of P G!! So would like to appreciate yout clear thoughts as well as straightforwardnes....
Well, and Scarlette (ohh..do you remember me?)...I think you can't compare the cremation with that of the burning bodies in Auschwitz. Often the crematorium is not in the middle of the town..it is always at the outskirts. Secondly, only one body has to be burnt at a time unlike the 100's may be 1000's burnt at a time in the Auschwitz. So, the 'odour of the burning body' factor is just incomparable.
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You perhaps misunderstood..
I am all for the temple. Its magnificent and a tribute to the people who built it - Al the marble was brought from India.. Most of the architects, designers were volunteers......................
multitasking skills and a bit of speed in thought and typing is all u need to achieve this feat,my friend.....though i do admit it's not an easy task.and moreover,this is my second stint here.i know these people since long.so no qualms about breaking the ice and stuff......
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
I thought u are quick learner saggi...I realise am wrong ..in just 3 days .. 250 odd points.. dont you sleep girl??..lol
thanks,my friend.i also feel that sometimes talking out things does solve half the problem.but the fact is that very few people are willing to listen or to explain to others why they thing something is right/wrong.instead,they go overboard calling names and hurtling personal insults.....which is not right,in my opinion,and leads to nowhere.the readers are left as confused as before...
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
hey saggi n brit....love the way u guys explaining and understanding now...
wheres scarlett.....some one plzz speak to her get things sorted out with her too...im new here but i m sure plays a major role in the QL family.....
Lets support and be a shoulder to each other rather not put each other down.....
A little bit more of the 'niceness vomit"...
hope u dont mind marhabtein....
No one wins in a War......but by speaking out and explaining a lot of things can be sorted out...
luv u all
i quite agree with you,brit.....and it's certainly not right to demand to be cremated in open air.about the temple....don't you think that's okay of sorts?coz there is such a huge population of hindu believers in the UK and catering to their religious interests isn't all that bad.....of course,allowing cremations is a totally different issue altogether.period!but having a magnificent temple....is that really a problem?u must visit india (in case u already haven't) and do take a look at the towering cathedrals and imposing mosques dotted all over the country.many of them are built so beautifully that they would easily rival their western or arab counterparts.india and indians respect and tolerate all religions and faiths.....and having a new church/mosque built in their village/town/city will only be consider as an added splendour by the locals :-)
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
I agree with your comments.
The mark of a civilised and developed society is acceptance and tolerance.
I personaly feel that the UK sometimes is too accomodating..
The largest Hindu temple outside India is now in England. All religions are free to practice their religions. However, IMHO, lines must be drawn somewhere and in this specific case, i would be against allowing open air cremations, because I think it may set a dangerous precedent.
I don't always put the links, because they can be cumbersome.. also, sometimes, I just take the gist of the story, because its too long..
Anway, for this story ..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-burning-issue-of-hindu-funeral-pyres-960259.html
people.....like many others said,just coz some crazy hindu wants to create a sensation by wanting to be cremated in the open air in a foreign land,that does not mean that all hindus think likewise.each country has it's own customs and beliefs and they get most respect only in their respective countries of origin.so why bother to pick up a fight with the law just for the sake of it?
indians have lived in all parts of the world for ages.and we have been utmost courteous to the nation and it's rules where we earn our daily bread.but then there are specimen cases like this mr.ghai-whatever who attempts to disrupt the harmony by cheap antics.
cremation is a very sacred ritual and has many underlying facts behind it.i'm sure all other faiths have their own reasons for the things they do.religion and politics are personal stuff,people.arguments on these two topics will lead to the middle of nowhere!so tolerate and respect all faiths and i'm sure the world will be such a happy place,really!
P.S:I still don't know why that silly guy wants to be cremated in britain itself.....when he knows he's welcome to do whatever he wants back at home in india.maybe he's having some criminal record which prohibits him from entering india as a free-man.that's a big possibility......otherwise,i don't see any reason as to why he's so reluctant to go back home.....hmmm!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Alexa.. Oops.. seems I got up late today gal. How you been.
Na..none need to tell me about you, been around for a while now and I Know who is who,.was just trying to cool you guys down clearing some bits where you went lil harder than you should be like you mentioned. I ddnt felt that he/she ( Bubbly) really meant as much..thats all
The Nation and the religion..both doesnt care what we blabber , its way too big for us to comment on.
so no claws..cause I got hippo skin..LOL
gd day
Cut down the trees - contribute to pollution
Burn the bodies with it - more pollution
Throw the ashes or half cooked bodies in the ganges---more pollution........
Why not let the dead be buried and decompose the natural way, no smell, no cutting trees, no polluting water but making the soil more fertile?
Thank God Hindus are restricted to India alone or they would make life more miserable with so much pollution with one body.... can't imagine burning a body scene....its like punishing the dead body for being hindu and punishing others too......that imagination itself makes me feel sick.
Rather too early in the morning for 'niceness 'Vomit.
"There is a community in India or Pakistan, UI forget which, who leave the corpses of their dead out in the open for birds to feed upon and pick clean..
Would we then have to accomodate them also?"
Dear Brit,
You are referring to the "Parsi" community in India. They worship "Ahura Mazda" the Fire God. And they dont just leave their dead in any open space for vultures to peck. There is a designated place called the "Tower of Silence". Most of them do not adhere to this ancient system,of their own free will because they are concerned about the environmental hazards.
BTW they are one of the most progressive communities in India. I hope they will never ask you to accomodate them in your society. They are very well off in India and they prosper in Business too. Do you know a company found by people of this community have recently taken over Automobile giants "Jaguar" and "Land rover".
Hi QL Family,
lets repect all religions.
Religion is nothin but a way to live life...
none of us has ever seen God...we jsut follow what is been taught to us...
It is we humans who have divided humans into groups called religions and regions...
Sometimes i think Animals are better than us...
Bcoz they do not argue/fight or kill for money /religion/ caste/ colour....
We should learn some thing from them...
lets learn to apologise ans solve issues and speak up to what we do not like in what some ones says to our religions....
i m a hindu....and i repect and love all religions...and do expect the same from others....
Lets not argue...if tommorow any of you guys need blood i will come and give it to u irrespetive of yoour religion....if tommorow there is a tsunami here...then people from all religions will die togather...
sun does not first rise in a muslims house than the hindus house and finally ina achristians house....
When nature does not differenciate between us then why do we...
Bcoz we have lovely brains to think...
now i repquest every one in this room to please promise that we expats or qataris will live like brothers and sisters...and apologise to each other...and clear our doubts if we have about any religion....
Lets make this world a better place to live...i m sure God will love to see us all happy amongst each other......
Now lets see who apologises first....
come on...clear the misunderstandings pleaseeeeeeeee.......
A thousand years ago the "Tower of silence" would have been as good a funeral system as any other system. It seems to be in-sync with nature too. I mean, we perform so many rituals after somebody dies.... to what end? Nobody knows. What happens to so many wild creatures dying in the Jungle....they get eaten by vultures. I think no system is better than the other. Any system which does not pollute the environment and does not cause discomfort to other people should be allowed.
In Recent times diclofenac poisoning has caused the vulture population to dip in India. This will have very serious impact on the ecological balance of the region. Diclofenac which is sometimes injected into cattles as a pain releiver is poisonous to vultures. As a result we may soon loose the most valueable scavenging bird forever.
This decline in vulture population has rendered the system of putting Dead bodies in the "Tower of silence", in-effective. This still remains a serious contentious issue in India.
Unfortunate, my own recent mishap did happen.
My toilet was overwhelm with the load, the overflow exceed the levels of sustainable water. The Grey water and debris being discharge to the floor remind me of the Ganges river.
Thanks God for the plunger and liquid clorox that I use to disinfect the bathroom overall.
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
— Tho
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
but I really WOULD appreciate it if you would give the link to the newspaper articles. I know it says The Independent, but I'd still like to be able to click on the link and read the comment, see the date etc.
Pretty please?
And Mr. Ghei can't break the rules too. Unless he manages to get the court verdict in his favour(which seems improbable) he will not have a open air cremation in Britain.
yes, Europeans CAN get in trouble for downing a few drinks in the GCC...and until just recently it was that way in Qatar. But, we abide by the rules set down by the country in which we reside. As Alexa said..its not the Europeans who are making money from the beer bars...except Garveys...and even the bars have to abide by the country's rules...they observe Ramadan and totally close down
yes I still say it is selfish to ask a country to change its rules...he needs to ship his body back to India if he wishes to have a traditional hindu open creamation.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Well Well, Don't pass your judgement so soon. May be Mr. Ghei will prove to be the top cat. Then he will have his cake and eat it too. It is UK, we are talking about not Qatar,Alexa. So wait and watch what happens.
Alexa, ofcourse you are right,
Thats why I said the guy is crazy. But you cannot term him as selfish for wanting to have his last rites performed according to his tradition.
And according to tradition (correct me if I am wrong) he may wish to have his last rites performed in the country wher he spent most of his life in.
The Hindus are not creamted openly in UK. They have a electric crematorium just like in India(not like Auschwitz though).
It is just that some crazy Hindu guy wants to be burnt in an open air pyre,and is already in trouble for wanting. I am sure Europeans in GCC dont get into trouble just for their urge to gulp down some alcohol!!!
"I guess I just don't understand why someone, who moves to another country instead of staying in the one they were raised in, wants to change the laws of the country they now reside in. Seems quite a bit selfish to me".
True enough. I really don't understand why some Europeans want to open Beer Bars in Qatar, and run around the Dubai beaches in skimpy outfits.
No worries...the residents of Gosforth won't take kindly to the Ethnics' ways of burning their dead thats for sure!
if youare living in a country, you abide by its rules, even if you are NOT paying taxes. IF you are paying taxes, you abide by the rules also. If someone wishes to be buried/whatever in another manner than is different from the country in which they are residing, then make arrangements to have their body shipped back home. No country should be forced to change their rules.
I'm sorry but burning flesh, whether it has nice herbs or whatever on it, will still smell. Ask the people who lived near Auschweitz or any of the concentration camps when the bodies were burning in the creamatoriums what it smelled like. So not only does it pollute the scent of the air, it also pollutes the air with smoke.
In the article it said.."Muslims and Jews have been given their own graveyards, they have been allowed to deal with their dead according to their religious needs but Hindus have been ignored." The key word is BURIED...which is allowed under British law.
I guess I just don't understand why someone, who moves to another country instead of staying in the one they were raised in, wants to change the laws of the country they now reside in. Seems quite a bit selfish to me.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
In this case, the guy doing the asking is living off the state..
that is beside the point..The article itself states that the Hindu community is split on this issue since many regard it as archaic..
My point is that you are beginning to set a precedence.. this means that ALL minorities will start demanding rights based on their beliefs..
As in SN's case, she would demand to be burnt at the stake .
bubbly...someday perhaps you will grow up enough to know the difference between someone ridiculing your religion or part of it and someone making a comment on it. Or at least I certainly hope so...
Funny thing is that if you were on here long enough to know me, like other Indians have been, you'd find I am one of the biggest supporters of your nation. You really should learn to relax and take life a lot less serious and making more out of people's comments than was meant, otherwise you'll end up living a very worrisome life. Its too short to be that way and you are way too young to not be enjoying life and all its people.
Like someonenew said, we all do silly things (in others' eyes at least) like kissing under mistletoe. Its tradition. Or...say, (and I think this one is hilarious because its going no where anyway) taking a body to the morgue, filling it with formaldehyde to preserve it, getting it all dressed up, full makeup so it looks "alive"(???) andhaving an open casket...do what???? Ok WHY??? because its tradition. Personally speaking, when I am dead, I hope they just dig a hole and put me in there(to help fertilize the soil because I've had a LOT of people tell me I am full of, um, crap, lol)...and have one heck of a party to celebrate my life that was long and happy.
Learn to look at life and even religion with a smile and you'll live a much happier life.
I will continue to say what is crossing my mind because that's what I was raised to do by my parents. I will not intentionally say things that hurt others, but by the same token, i will not sit and weigh my every word because I MIGHT offend someone or their religion, by accident. That's what I took offense to in your original post.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Its illegal to have fires between a certain time.......and witchcraft isn't infact illegal in the UK...
What a hot argument!!! I wonder how it would have been if you guys have been together in the same room.
My personal belief is: I am sure if the Hindus are allowed to cremate their deads in the UK, the Councils would want them to have it in some kind of remote place where people would not smell the supposedly odour coming from teh rotting bodies.
How many of you have actually witnessed a Hindu cremation. I have witnessed many. I can assure you that at no point in time I could smell bad odour. The Hindus(at least in the country I was born) put all sorts of stuff that have good smell on the pyre.So while burning, they emit some nice smell.
On a personal level I respect people beliefs. The Hindus in UK pays a lot of taxes and are the least scroungers on the state( I hope Brit expat will agree with me)..So, why not allow them to practice their belief. Anyway, they are in a minority. And not all hindus would want to be cremated that way.
They have not asked much from the UK which is becoming a fast pluri-cultural country. Whether you like it or not, UK people has to adapt to this situation of pluri-culture. Most of the europeans at this current point in time must have links to other countries. Now they see it as normal with the passage of time. But before, each nation would marry their own kind.
What's the harm in open air cremation? How many dead bodies will be burned everyday, anyway as opposed to the amount of fumes coming out exhaust pipes? Of course I will disagree if they do on the bank of the Thames in Central London.
End of the day, if the UK government have laws that allow it , so be it! At least they are not doing illegal things illegally some other nationalities are doing in the UK, like witchcraft, drugs and sex slaves?
One thing I might see coming is the Govt. imposing some taxes on them( they need the money since they spent billions in saving banks....hahahah) for polluting the air and the global warming stuff.
BTW, I am not Hindu, I am a Muslim who respect my Hindu and Christians fellow human being.
Now I hope I dont get some bashing from you lot.
oops! I guess u r right manisha...I was talkin abt lake sarovar in Tibet...Gangotri (origin of ganga)is too high in Himalayas to chance a dip...I'll freeze instantly!!:0)
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Dont remember the name of the spot, but i hav heard tell abt a place where its kinda like a small lake, right near its origin...thts wht i was talkin abt.yeah must b freezing for sure..
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
winn in himalaya,water is so cold its freezing and also the current of river is very fast....r u sure u want to take a dip there..
N what is this hoo-haa abt 'rotten flesh' being a religious insult? Deadbody in a waterbody (or any other place)will rot; its a natural process...religion doesnt hav anything to do with it!! but yeah there's no way I'm gonna give that water to a dying person... I would be sending him on his way prematurely.
The concept of purity of the water of Ganges originated at a time when the banks of ganges did not have 1/100th of its present population. The water used to come straight from the melting of the snow on those uninhabited himalayan slopes and yes it was pure and people worshipped the life-giving river! But in the present day environ...hell, NO!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
ok...c'mon gals...u dont need to start throwing darts at each other jus coz i got out to get some fresh air ;)...sheesh...i move out for a breather n y'all start fighting...
Talkin for myself i feel each nation has an identity, a unique culture n stick to that,or somewhere around that. Visitors/immigrants should cross in only after knowing the culture/practises and deciding whether they would be comfy with it. If not find another place...simple!
Agree with Harry on this one...this dude has the support of only very few ppl of the community.
Throwing bodies in any waterbody has never been condoned by any relegion...it is a decay of a system caused by lack of resources and exploitd by greedy middlemen.Yeah there's no way I'm gonna take a dip in Ganges near any town...though I would love to do it where it originates in the Himalayas...folks say its a beautiful place.
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
like this is news ... it's not.
The Times, in June 2007, published an article about Integration in UK. An extract from that article reads like there IS a suitable crematorium for Hindus who wish to follow their practice of open air funeral pyres.
"Another controversy that has occasionally hit the headlines is over open-air cremations. The council has tried to distance itself from a campaigner in Northumberland who unofficially – and illegally – conducted a cremation on an open funeral pyre. However, Mr Bhanot called for more crematoriums with facilities to accommodate worshippers, who are traditionally offered food and need to take a shower or wash. A large crematorium for Hindus, with a suitable hall, is being built in Leicester......"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2007352.ece
ALLOW OPEN CREMATIONS!
Great Idea... but only at certain times...like Friday and Saturday nights
Do it in the most public areas
I think the smell of putrid burning flesh would be a great crime deterrant.... superb idea....
And i dont care what anyone says..i aint putting on my bikini and jumping in the Ganges....
Well said Scarlett I agree with u completely.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
The guy's living in a council house, represents a minority of the Hindus and wants to change the laws of the country regarding buriel.. Send him packing is the answer..
There is a community in India or Pakistan, UI forget which, who leave the corpses of their dead out in the open for birds to feed upon and pick clean..
Would we then have to accomodate them also ?
I dont think so Nigelried.. its disgusting for others when its burnt in public dude. It happens in India wher there are hetcors of land for the family itself to do it.
In ma town in India , a crematorium closer to the town was moved by the court after compaints from public and later on all are converted to electric ones now.. then why does he went there and picked to live there and now creating all these fuss.??
i think Hindus should be given the right to do this. The British accommodate other religions so it seems unfair not to accommodate this one.
Come on Alexa. it was not that hard as you braught it to now. bubble ddnt tell to keep quite.. it was in a much sober way i guess. He put it like, when its gona hurt someone why dont you ''not say anything even if you feel so''
Read it again sweets..
quote
it would be great if you could just keep quiet and not say anything even if you feel so-where somebody else's religious beliefs are concerned
Unquote
Its two stones , if you want fire go aghead.. or you could keep them apart too.. lol
Now .. burning bodies ( not people as you mentioned) and floating in the river is not an Indian or Hindu custom for your kind info. Its been happening when guys who do it was throwing halfdone instead of the ashes. It will take you few years to learn whats that custom and practises which i sbeen in practice past 5000 years. so dont try, but more than a religion it was a culture lil older than you.
Does it apply to your head too? It would appear so yah! Back to the Piano - its a Bechstein yah! Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
my skin is thick enough alexa-you have to be thick skinned around thick headed people-I just believe in standing up for what i believe in-but itf futile to explain that to you as i can see-so im done with this topic
im not joking-but i do find some of Alexa's replies amusing-she seems desperate for a fight-frustrated ?!
bubbly one question why do you always end ur post with a :) are u joking by any chance?
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
OMG! I think I have found a new lyrics for a song! Back to the piano and the gin! Hic!Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
and yes,your royal highness,theres a difference between seeing sense and being diplomatic-so that others who have not been blessed with as much common sense will just shut up :)
na-i wont want to waste it on people like you-I dont wanna hurt you-but the way you are going-im sure youll get hurt on your own soon :)
Thanks Alexa-if thats what you feel about me-I couldnt care less-its not like i think the world of you or your opinions!
No intentions of wasting my race chip on somebody like lets see..Y-O-U!!!!
and yes-be careful when you get those claws out-others have bigger claws-you may get hurt for a change
Bubbly Jiggerboo clearly never got over the Brits leaving them when we gave them independence so that they could instill their own very vicious brand of racialism. Perhaps Bubbly should Bubbly off back to Bumbai. Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
I started off reading the topic and feeling that t is wrong to impose your customs in a different country....but then i got wild when i saw some of the comments given-so said a lot more than initially intended :)
yes someonenew-I think I should back off-and let the " most sensible" people(according to themselves) in this forum take over
So you agree that theer are corpses floating around oin the Ganges..
From what I've read , the Ganges is not really clean and the turtles have become a danger to the bathers and locals..
Anyway, the post was about the Hindus wanting open air pyres in the Uk..
I personaly do not go along with it.. Perhaps a special building like a crematorium with open air cremation facilities.... But not totally open air..
Ok alexa-thats carrying it a little too far-You are commenting on Indians as a whole now-but then thats your level-I wont lower myself to your level-If you feel great by putting down a particular race and feel great about it-go ahead thats your way of thinking-cant expect YOU people to understand anything bout values and customs anyway :))
A prick. No offence. Yeah right. Hic!Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
bubbly relax! Think of it objectively. Really dont u think kissing a guy just coz ur standing under a mistle toe(spelling) is slightly over the top? Thats something they do. She was talking scientifically. Why do you think British gov has banned cremating bodies in open air? Its most probabaly something scientific. So lots of issues we can discuss in the topic. This is a public forum , the article was posted by someone who's not a Hindu and the incident did not happen in India so I think we should be more tolerant of other people views.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
I have no intentions of going to war with anybody -peace to all :)
Yes scarlett,I know there are a lot of religions in this world-i respect everybody's beliefs-i have stayed in quite a few countries in this world-and i have always adopted the godd I see in every religion-as i would accept my own-and when i didnt agree with something-I just ignored it-didnt go about saying what i didnt like-thats all
Disccusion is one thing scarlett-I dont expect you to understand-but like i said earlier-why do you want to hurt someone's religious beliefs by commenting on things you dont know about?
I absolutely agree with you that you have a right to your opinion-just keep them to yourself and try not to put others down is all Im saying-a forum is also about respecting other's be;iefs right?you dont havce to agree with them-but you can at least respect the fact that there are others who do?
alexa...whoa.....
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
don't go as you'd like, but honey, you need to learn to thicken up your skin if you are to get along in this world because its a HUGE place with many many religions and viewpoints.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Alexa-I am just someone who believes very strongly and stands by some of those customs that have been spoken of so lightly of in this topic
I may be nobody to ask anyone to keep quiet-but its not right to comment on religious beliefs-its just not-maybe its stupid on my part to expect someone like YOU to understand anything bout beliefs :)
this is what a forum is all about...to talk to others from the "other side of the world"...and no we won't always agree nor think what others do is right or even intelligent at times...that's what makes the world go round.
I can and will comment on religious themes...and I have the right to do so, just as you do.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Im not trying to sensationalize anything-i just felt bad about the way she's written-okay,so she's from the other side of the world-then why comment on something you dont know the value of?that's all I was trying to say-I have no interest in getting any kind of publicity or in sensationalizing anything
but i just felt that its not right to comment on something religious-would the people "from the other side of the world" take it if we started commenting on their beliefs?I think not...
you kow I would never do that intentionally.
Yes, I joke about a lot of things, sometimes get myself in trouble, but wouldn't ever do it with a mean thought...
I mean some of the things we do back home, I'm sure people from the other side of the world think are absolutely stupid...and I even joke about those too!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Yes Madam, you will find them in the Barbeque section next to charcoal Hic Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
Bubbly I dont think Scarlett was derogatory at all, she just did not know the importance of these rituals you're talking about. Its a typical reaction from a person like her who's from the other side of the world, comon ur just tryin to sensationalize the issue.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
and I certainly do not appreciate your comment that I could just keep quiet..
I meant nothing against the religious part with the rotting flesh...its fact...
so why not keep quiet until you know someone...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
I feel that it is wrong to try and impose your beliefs in a country where no one understands you or your customs...He should have just flwon back to his homeland for the cremation...
But scarlett,i do feel that you have made a lot of derogatory remakrs bout the whole cremation thing-its is a very religious and sacred act for the Indians-has been from time immemorial-I think it was a tad too much on your part to say stuff like "rotting flesh" about something that is part of religious beliefs-most of the remakrs made by you are very derogatory-and it would be great if you could just keep quiet and not say anything even if you feel so-where somebody else's religious beliefs are concerned
is considered toxic to others..and as far as miracles happening in India..they also happen all over the world...its not just there.
Still would like to see the test results..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Yep,ne'r trust machines...always have interlocks n backups.even if there is a power outage, the body shud remain within...so no sight, no smell. and when power is back, poof again!!
Btw, shall all of us stop using machines (like lets say cars, computers etc)coz they 'can'or 'might' malfunction??intrsting thought...or NOT! I'd rathr drive to my office than walk...uh!
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
never trust any machine completely....afterall,they're just a MACHINE!'biznezz clazzzz' or not!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Scarlett: Sympathise with you on the 'rare' squirrel! Those guys shd hav put circuit breakers of higher ratings and all there wud hav been wud be some ashes scattered to the wind n no body!!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Saggi:Just coz one machine in some undermaintained crematorium malfunctioned , why should I be against that. The solution is in proper engineering of the stuff. n yeah I know the kinda place you are talkin abt. Those old,shady run down ones...spiff em up, put some better gadgets n you can fly(burn, i mean) bizness class...woohooo!!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
that's india for you,honey!sometimes mysterious facts defy the facts of science.and about the water getting medically tested....india's got no dearth of atheists and such tests have been conducted time and again.and each time,crazy as it may sound,the water gets declared 'fit for drinking'.....beat that!
india is a land known for such things.....for us,it's nothing new....just a part of life.
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Scarlett: The toxic effluents from the garment factories in Mathura area (which has also caused black spots on Taj Mahal's dome and are being closed own coz of eco concerns)can kill any living organism...guaranteed!!
Rest assured about bacteria.
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
svelte_saggi - I sat on the the river banks of "Jamuna" just last month :)
Ban Spoon Feeding not Me
what the F...BZZZZZZRKKKKKK!!!! Ok I think I need a nap...I'm getting silly now..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
have i told you of the time when a lady i know was taken to the electric crematorium after her death and the system kinda went beserk causing the shutter to open half-way thru the process and the onlookers (her husband,her brothers and some others close of kin) had to witness the gruesome sight of her body being burnt.the operator guy had to turn off the mains,call in the electrician to repair the system and the system was back to work after a while.now all this while,the shutter is open and the half-roasted body's stench kinda filled up the room it seems.they got the 'ashes' after 3 hours!
now tell me......d'you still think 'gone is flash' is such a good idea after all?machines can get faulty at all the wrong times,y'know!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
I never said it was filthy..I was going on biologically speaking. I don't care WHERE water comes from, if there is flesh in it, human or otherwise, the water will have bad bacteria in it.
You may believe as you wish, but think on this..the water you said is kept for so long, is given to the DYING person...how do you know its safe to drink, since the person is already dying? Just curious. I'm not slamming your religion or beliefs, I just know biologically that its impossible for bacteria not to be in the water with rotting flesh. I would be very interested to get a sample and get it tested in a lab to see the results.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
BBQ'd squirrels ...courtesy : Electricity Dept!!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
LOL Scarlett! in some places I think they put red silk on the body!! (What a waste I say!!)
But this guy seriously needs to take one long walk!! Like, if he is so interested in a traditional cremation, why does he want to do it in a foreign land? Let em fly him home n cremate him wherever!!
On second thoughts, I guess this guy is just after some cheap publicity (which relegious fights can bring you any day) so that he can increase the strength of his confused souls brigade.
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
see how things get misconstrued???
Now on that note...I'd wear whatever I didn't want my hubby's 2nd wife to get her hands on... ;)
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
alexa....no babe,i ain't joking....meant every word of it....
scarlett....i'm not sure if you know of this fact.but almost in all hindu homes,tiny sealed copper pitchers of water from the ganges are kept at the prayer place.this is used at the time of a death in the family,when the person on the deathbed is given the water to drink as a last intake.the water stays clean and pure for years on end.i know we have 5-6 little pitchers at home and nothing's happened to them.when my grandpa passed away 28 years ago,one of the pitchers that was brought down during the times of my great-grand dad was broken and the water was given to him....
so,tell me......can u tell me why the water that is just taken (read dipped,filled and sealed) from a "filthy river" can stay so pure for so long?so there is some kind of natural balance involved there.no denying that....plus u also have to consider that this custom has been going on since time immemorial.
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Oh and hear I thought you were talking about what I would wear when I get cremated.
reminds me of those squirrels back home that cross the electrical lines and you hear this loud BANG...and the lights go out all over the street...toasted squirrel...and my dogs would run to see if they could be the first to find the body so they could carry it around until I grabbed it from them..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
since the deceased would be wearing white it would be in very poor taste to attend wearing white also...especially after Labor Day...so perhaps the red and orange would work after all.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
But as I said elsewhere before, I would anyday prefer a hi-voltage electric stuff to pyres!! so much cleaner , less messy n gone in a flash!!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
FYI....hindus are burnt with only a new white blanket covering their bodies
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
regardless of how many turtles, fish or other marine life feed upon the half burnt corpse...fact is, there is STILL flesh upon the bones and that rots, leading to bacteria and illnesses...
Most everyone understands the basis behind the creamation however, why should one person impose their own religious beliefs upon another country and their citizens?
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
u came in at the right time,buddy! :-D and yeah,i got pretty annoyed seeing the 'akal mrityu' bit.....coz if my sanskrit/hindi knowledge is right even to a meagre extent,akal certainly doesn't mean 'bad'....
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
No I just cant' Scarlett, I mean what does one want to be burnt wearing...I'm still thinking red or orange would be good colours though.
that's not right.....the part about corpses floating on the ganges is true.but u must know the whole story to comment on it.....
they are not just rotting corpses....call them half-burnt bodies.that would be more like it.it is believed that getting cremated on the banks of the ganges and having your ashes immersed in the holy river grants you freedom from taking future births.and it was done with utmost sincerity in days of yore.however,the entire process has become wholly commercialised now added to the huge influx of people bringing in their dead kin to the same spot everyday.
it seems to save on wood and time,once the corpse is half burnt,the guy who own the 'cremation point' tosses the half-burnt body into the water to make way for the next 'customer'!sad....
it a well known fact that the ganges is kept clean by the numerous fresh water tortoises that live in it.they feed on these corpses and the water is kept perpetually clean(well,to a certain extent,at least).otherwise,with the rate of people being brought there,the river would be a stinking pool of dead bodies by now.....!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
"Many Hindus believe that mechanical cremations lead to akal mrtyu (a bad death), where the soul is forced to mingle with other souls because it has not been able to escape. "
Utter crap!! the term means untimely/early demise (as in a young person's)and not 'bad death'. Even if it was, How in hell can a cremation (which happens AFTER death)lead to any death, bad or good!!DUh!! Whoever said this is certifiably nuts!!
Brit: I think the news item abt corpses is pretty old...coz now there is a major movt to clean up the river which has a pivotal role in the ecological balance of the region.
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
did you ever figure out what to wear to a creamation? I know it was one of your big worries a while back..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
I agree. It's so stuffy in those crematoriums, must be very uncomfortable for the people getting roasted.
drinking water...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
in India, many rotting corpses are seen floating down the Ganges, because the people could not afford the costs of a full pyre or the pyre went out..
it's not right trying to impose a certain country's/religion's culture and customs on a foreign land.....i believe such things ought to be done where it is not looked down upon and will face no problems....like in their own home country....
and burial/cremation of the dead is like the last respects given to the departed soul.....why fight even at the last moment?these things are to be done in peace and tranquility.....
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
the smell of burning flesh is repugnant and disgusting...and it is NOT the custom of the country in which he lives, so he should not impose his religious beliefs (and burnt flesh smells) upon the countrymen of Britian.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.