Canada: US deserter given hope

LETS MAKE A HARD HAT WITH BEER CAPS...

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

So now people are ready to go to war and kill many innocents in the process to get green card, what a shame. The whole Iraq war is based on lies.

I meant higher of course.

Good that yo mentioned that Kelly. The death toll among foreign troops in Afghanistan is much lower than officially stated on the technicality that those migrants, mostly from South America, who are fighting for the green card are not considered American nationals until they complete their tour.

NATO is involved in Afghanistan. There are almost daily casualities among soldies from France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Candians and of course Americans.

Back to the topic. I am not aware of the details. Is this guy among those immigrants who are promised green card upon completing the service. Looks like he is a crook.

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Brit expat the Canadians are losing soldier's in Afghanistan everyday, they aren't their "hiding."

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Helmets which both the Yanks and Brits wear, are NOT designed to stop a Bullet travelling at over 1000 feet per sec.

All they are designed to do, is stop small shrapnel and debris parts from knocking unconcious the Soldiers.

As for the Footy helmets, not sure what they plan to do with those, unless their gonna challenge the Taliban to a quick game during their lunch breaks....

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

About Your Americans friends

I'll bet you, they got out already!!

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

The US army is the best equiped in the world. I am a little surprised about the football helmets.. I thik it must be a joke..

As far as stress is concerned, the troops are regularly assessed and appraised before deployments..I am sure he will be fine.

My friends son is the one with schrapnel in his brain obviously you can't operate yet do you think its a good idea to put him back in a stressful combat zone? Its his third tour of duty. They ran over an IED they told them they were protected in the vehicle they have but no vehicle is safe. They are looking into sending football helmets to Iraq to protect the troops heads. I would of thought a combat helmet is stronger than a football helmet.

The Canadians went there to give credence to the coalition.

Te Canadians, like the Germans are hiding behind their "mandate" whilst the British and Americans are fighting..

I used to speak to quite a few American soldiers (still do) and most of these guys signed up for the US military directly after 9/11, thinking that they were going to be helping protect their country from a REAL threat. Many feel sold out by the Bush government and refuse to risk and likely lose their lives for a fake, pointless war. I have to agree with them. Anyone who's ever met Vietnam vets knows the psychological and physical toll a fake war brings on people.

As for Canadian involvement in Afghanistan, we are still mainly there as a police force, trying to bring about peace and protect the citizens of Afghanistan. We were invited in by the UN. Unlike the American situation in Iraq.

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I will agree with you that they are understaffed. Unfortunatley they are overstaffed with paper pushers. I think the stories may be different from state to state.

Just curious - the guy with the shrapnel in the brain. Is this something that you know first hand or someone close to you? If it is something from the media, well I don't put a lot of stock in the media these days.

As for Brits thread. This guy sounds like a coward looking for a way out. What easier way then to make the statements that he did. The press would eat it up and anti-war groups will use it as fodder. In the end he was not forced to join the military. If he wasn't a coward he would have stayed in the states and fought his case - instead he ran away. If the Canadians want to give this guy a pass - more power to them. It is their right to do so. I just don't think that just one judge (with obvious biases) should be able to make the decision decision.

Just my humble opinion.

Lisa

Red Pope you even say that the VA is understaffed, see this site: Very informative

http://www.vawatchdog.org/07/nf07/nfFEB07/nf020607-1.htm

Would become a reality coz of this thread

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I'm a vet my self. I'm an active member of VFW and DAV charitable organizations.

All we do is helping other veterans getting their benefits from the VA.

I got no complains about the VA system at all. They are super generous in helping any veteran that is on the system already and are willing to be help.

The current VA system is overwhelming understaffed and over worked with the amount of veterans that applied for the services, which is totally free.

There is an excellent outreach program for New Veterans and homeless veterans. Who are in dire need of VA medical program and establishing their own VA benefits.

The problem is that most Veterans, that are getting out of the military, don't know what to do or are badly informed about the veterans benefits.

One of the biggest problems, is that the information of VA benefits is not getting OUT to them at all or they just don't care at all.

Including corrupt family members, all they do is cashing the veterans check, too paid for their own personal bills and not the veteran financial needs.

Those actions affect the veterans that are handicap or totally disabled.

Most of the time, once they get out of the military, they are forgotten, either by ignorance or just a case of bad attitude of not caring.

All cases are treated different and individually.

Do you know of any Veteran in need of help at this moment?

I willing to give you a couple of toll free numbers for him to call and his situation will be solve accordingly.

Don't listen to what the news are saying about the veterans.

Most of the time is just political propaganda against the current Washington administration.

They are using the Veterans administration as a scape goat.

There is lots of good people, who are working diligently behind the close doors in helping Veterans in how to use their earn benefits.

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

I have to agree with pope with the vets. My stepfather was a vet and he was well taken care of. They have vet hospitals and loads of services.

Of course a country can always do more as war does dreadful things to people.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

I have worked with both US and UK armed forces aqnd the US is way ahead in looking after their people..They have superb medil and training/retraing facilities.

Guess you haven't seen the news in America most returning vets don't get the necessary healthcare to live a decent life. In fact 1/3 are coming back with major head injuries and are not being taken care of. Our troops have to fight for decent health care or take charity. Would you put a gun into the hands of a guy with schrapnel in his brain? Even the first Gulf War veterens are still fighting for decent health care! Not what I call good care or respect!

With all due respect..The American troops are the bewst looked after in the world.. Two nations look after thir troops the best... USA and Israel..

the salary every month to toss it off in barracks, but when its time to earn his pay, he wimps out and claims assylum ! He should be charged with treason and thrown in jail for a long time.......

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

I think you have to consider the fact that the Canadians take very good care of their troops and America doesn't I know of a case where and American has schrapnel in his brain due to an IED and was sent back to the front with a gun and its his 3rd tour of duty. A Canadian that was hurt with schrapnel and not in the brain was sent home. Its hard to compare apples to oranges!

going to do when they got to Iraq or Afghanistan..

Someone shoul hae tld them tha honourable war are only found in holywood..

bwaaahahahahhahaaa

Your lousy English again!

Whan an "American" you are!

Are you suffering from Headaches and sleepless nights in Iraq?

Maybe, you are consider a Terrorist in your own country or better yet, an enemy of the state of Iraq.

Come on boy, Tell us the truth about you.

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

you WILL be "facing the headaches and sleepless nights" after "committing savage acts against civilians and routinely killing innocent people", anyway!

NO???!!!

Most of the time desertion is treated as treason, with reduction in rank, loss of money, a hefty Jail time and dishonorable discharge.

I don't know of anyone beating a case like this in the Courts of the USA.

I rather finish my enlistment contract and get the hell out, when is done and over.

Instead of facing the headaches and sleepless nights.

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

I must admit hat I am not a supporter of "dessertion". When you join the army, you know what you are letting yourself in for..

In this case, it would have been better for the soldier to "fight his case in the USA" and bring hi concerns to the attention of the general public..

Running away to Canada seems the easy way out!

an shame on the USA (but that's why it's a terrorist country)

Canada's Shame: Judge Robert L.Barnes

While Canadian troops serve in Afghanistan, putting their lives on the line fighting an enemy that hides behind innocent civilians, Judge Robert L.Barnes has allowed the dishonorable, cowardly and no doubt lying war deserter, Joshua Key ---who alleged that certain mishandling of civilians occurred--- to receive asylum in Canada.

Mr Barnes said it "cannot be seriously challenged" that some of the conduct in which Key participated violated the Geneva Convention.

Josh Key alleges that during his home invasions in Iraq he witnessed episodic instances of violence and looting but also "intimidation" of households, "the absence of cultural sensitivity" in dealing with civilians, and "disrespect for human dignity.

I find it very strange how Josh Key would have witnessed anything considering that Josh was a interpreter who interrogated captives. He never fired a weapon at anyone in Iraq.

He provided NO proof for any of these claims( how could he) yet this didn't deter Judge Barnes from allowing a cowardly lying deserter refugee status in a country where honorable & courageous Canadian soldiers are fighting and dying in Afghanistan.

It is NOT for Judge Barnes to determine what acts that may have ALLEGEDLY occurred in Iraq violate Geneva Convention, nor is it sufficient grounds for his ruling.

Judge Barnes evident disdain for America, the Bush Administration and the war in Iraq has informed this ludicrous and inane decision. That is was handed down on July 4th is a slap in the face to US troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, His decision is also a slap in the face to our Canadian troops in Afghanistan facing the same challenges fighting an enemy that hides among civilians, and who might possibly take some of the same and necessary actions Key's alleges he was "forced" to undertake.

Jonathan Kay, from The National Post writes:

While the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) had sensibly rejected Mr. Key's asylum application on the basis that the U. S. military had not sought his complicity in war crimes or crimes against humanity, Judge Barnes concluded that this was not where the line should be drawn. By his analysis, virtually any infraction of the Geneva Conventions -- which, as any soldier can report, are daily violated 100 times over by even the most conscientious fighting force, including Canada's -- can be grounds for asylum.

This apparently includes the infractions Mr. Key witnessed during his home invasions in Iraq -- including not only episodic instances of violence and looting, but also "intimidation" of households, "the absence of cultural sensitivity" in dealing with civilians, and "disrespect for human dignity."

Forget Iraq. This is the sort of thing you can see on any episode of COPS.

Judge Barnes' insulting and absurd ruling thankfully does not affect the status of Corey Glass, who served in Iraq and has been ordered to leave Canada by July 10, nor that of the lying deceitful cowardly Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, DESERTERS who failed in their bogus refugee claims stay in Canada as conscientious objectors to the war in Iraq.

Nonetheless, his decision is utterly shameless & completely without merit.

Below is Jonathan Kay's entire piece "A Bogus Refugee" from The National Post:

Since the war in Iraq began, dozens of U. S. military deserters have come to Canada. Thanks to the Federal Court of Canada, that trickle may soon become a flood. The court's decision in the case of Joshua Key -- rendered on Friday -- has so thoroughly dumbed down the criteria for refugee status in this country that it is hard to think of any foreign combat veteran who would not be able to gin up a passable tale of woe.

Mr. Key enlisted in the U. S. Army in 2002. The next year, he was sent to Iraq, where he assisted in raids of Iraqi homes suspected of containing weapons caches or insurgents. As in all anti-insurgent campaigns, this sort of raid proved to be nasty business. Doors got smashed in; children got scared; women, caught without a veil or even a full set of clothing, felt humiliated. Sometimes, people even got hurt.

Much of this is unavoidable -- even for a professional and (by international standards) humane army such as America's. War, after all, is hell -- a balancing of evils. Sometimes, a few residents are subject to humiliating searches so that the terrorists who seek to blow up the whole neighbourhood can be captured or killed.

This grim fact of war seems to have escaped the notice of Robert L. Barnes, who authored Friday's decision. While the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) had sensibly rejected Mr. Key's asylum application on the basis that the U. S. military had not sought his complicity in war crimes or crimes against humanity, Judge Barnes concluded that this was not where the line should be drawn. By his analysis, virtually any infraction of the Geneva Conventions -- which, as any soldier can report, are daily violated 100 times over by even the most conscientious fighting force, including Canada's -- can be grounds for asylum.

This apparently includes the infractions Mr. Key witnessed during his home invasions in Iraq -- including not only episodic instances of violence and looting, but also "intimidation" of households, "the absence of cultural sensitivity" in dealing with civilians, and "disrespect for human dignity."

Forget Iraq. This is the sort of thing you can see on any episode of COPS.

By the loose standard Judge Barnes endorses, just about any soldier in any war could come to Canada and make an arguable claim for asylum. Even if an applicant loses, he will at least be able to hang out in Canada for a few years while his case is before the IRB, and then roll the dice a few more times at the appellate level, where he can hope for the likes of a soft-hearted judge to bail him out … a judge such as, say, Robert L. Barnes.

As Ben Franklin said:

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

Ahhhh, my beloved country, home to the draft dodger once more. YAY!

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