Big Brother is definitely here
FBI ready to demand detailed logs of Britons' internet and travel habits
• The Observer
The EU is close to finalising an agreement with the US that would allow the FBI to see the internet browsing habits and credit card histories of UK citizens.
However, the prospect of an agreement between Brussels and Washington that will lower barriers to swapping previously private data, including travel history and spending patterns, will alarm civil rights advocates.
Talks about the transfer of highly personal information held by the UK government and leading companies to American security agencies began following the September 2001 terrorist attacks. US counter-terrorism officials argued that increased information on the movements and habits of European residents would help prevent a repeat attack.
Details of a joint report by US and EU negotiators indicate that progress on the agreement is advanced, following years of opposition from European states with stricter privacy laws. One final hurdle still to be cleared is whether British and European citizens can sue the US government over its handling of their personal data.
Another area of concern relates to what 'appropiate safeguards' have been agreed to prevent the US authorities from requesting further information such as the religion, political opinion and 'sexual life' of a British resident.
The threat of terrorism is the most ambiguous threat you can imagine. The events are given full coverage by the media whereas the INVESTIGATION is kept under a tight lid. The 9/11 investigation was launched ages after the MEDIA sold its story and the US government already took military action against the culprits alleged by those stories. And when it was finally launched, the investigating committee was placed under the direction of none other than HENRY KISSINGER! I couldn't stop laughing when I heard that. Honestly, the architect of the Bosnian tragedy and the Yugoslav civil war and long time aide to the CIA is supposed to give an honest report on 9/11. Spare me! I bet he was trying to make sure that the "wrong information was leaked. To get a drift of what I mean by investigation watch this video on youtube and then ask why this wasn't broadcast on any news channel. "911 Mysteries: demolitions". I promise you will all be shocked! And further reading into that topic is the book "Crossing the Rubicon" by former LAPD cop Michael Ruppert. Both very recommendable sources of real information.
Now I believe that this debate is moving in the right direction. I have studied freemasonry under all guises such as those aforementioned by the esteemed colleagues in the debate and I assure you that they are very real. I highly recommend reading "The New World Order" written by William Still. But coming back to our topic, why then the mass surveillance? If you read into massonic literature, christian AND islamic theology, you will find that the coming of the Messiah is well documented in all sources. Only difference is that the Messiah of the Masons is the Antichrist in christianity or Dajjal in islam. According to the religions, this will be a powerful world leader able to offer paradise to his followers (credit card balance, health insurance..etc.) and hell to his opposers (Will Smith in Enemy of the State). And all this surveillance and electronisation of cash and transactions serves to make crushing any resistance a mere touch on a button (delete). In Islam Prophet Muhamed says "when he arrives you will find no choice but to take to the mountains". Incidentally the muslims will be waiting for the advent of Jesus Christ who will come and defeat the Dajjal. All this is being sold now with promises of safety, ease of transaction, etc. but is leading down that inevitable path of the new world order and the terrible events to come.
"Carr's books often discuss a Luciferian conspiracy by what he calls the "World Revolutionary Movement," but he later attributed the conspiracy more specifically to the "Synagogue of Satan." The term "Synagogue of Satan" was not a reference to Judaism. Carr wrote, "I wish to make it clearly and emphatically known that I do not believe the Synagogue of Satan (S.O.S.) is Jewish, but, as Christ told us for a definite purpose, it is comprised of 'Them who say they are Jews ... and are not ... and do lie' (Rev. 2:9 and 3:9)".[22]
This quote is taken from Satan, Prince of this World, the book Carr had been working on at the time of his death. It was edited by his elder son W.J. Carr, Jr. and presented as the: "last manuscript [of the author] exposing the Luciferian Conspiracy, Satanism, secret societies and the Synagogue of Satan as driving forces behind the World Revolutionary Movement".[23] Carr's son also mentions he did'nt publish some parts of the manuscript because many references were missing.
One of the most interesting thing to note about Carr's Luciferian conspiracies, is that he believes they were already at work during Christ's time. As Taguieff points it out, there is a transhistorical scheme in Carr's idea of word conspiracy. In this kind of philosophy of history anticipating a final "World Government", the Illuminati are part of a satanic historical force that contributes to the evil original plot. According to that point of view Carr believes that there are "natural born" conspiracists which is nothing more for Taguieff than myth and paranoia invented from a delirious worldview.[24] It is indeed an original aspect of Carr's theories since most plot theorists usually start their "genealogy" with the modern age, especially with the French Revolution. As a Christian traditionalist, Carr has a strong Manichean way of thinking that is common to many anti-Mason and anti-Communist conspiracy theorist of the the Cold War period."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr
"..the First World War was fought so as to enable the Illuminati to overthrow the powers of the Tsars in Russia and turn that country into the stronghold of Atheistic-Communism. The differences stirred up by the agents of the Illuminati between the British and German Empires were used to foment this war. After the war ended, Communism was built up and used to destroy other governments and weaken religions. After this, World War Two, was fomented by using the differences between Fascists and Political Zionists. This war was fought so that Naziism would be destroyed and the power of Political Zionism increased, so that the sovereign state of Israel could be established in Palestine. During World War Two International Communism was built up until it equalled in strength that of united Christendom. At this point it was contained and kept in check until required for the final social cataclysm.
Moving into the future, Carr claimed that World War Three will be fomented by the agents of the Illuminati (also involved, according to him, with the United Nations) as they stir up between the Political Zionists and the leaders of the Moslem world. The war will be directed in such a manner that Islam (the Arab World including Mohammedanism) and Political Zionism (including the State of Israel) will destroy themselves, while at the same time the remaining nations, once more divided against each other will be forced to fight among themselves until they are in a state of complete exhaustion physically, mentally, spiritually and economically."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr
Long live the Freemasons! :-P
"...You might have seen a housefly, maybe even a superfly, but I bet you ain’t never seen a donkey fly. Ha, Ha, Ha..." Donkey
"Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present, controls the past." (from '1984') George Orwell
The round table groups are very powerful, however, I think that the real power wielders are the Freemasons.. They seem to have their hooks in all strata of society.
It is our belief that a conspiracy does indeed exist, and that it is extremely large, deeply entrenched, and therefore extremely powerful. It is working to achieve absolute and brutal rule over the entire human race by using wars, depressions, inflations and revolutions to further its aims. The Conspiracy's one unchanging purpose has been to destroy all religion, all existing governments, and all traditional human institutions, and to build a New World Order out of the wreckage they have created.
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Notice that if the Conspiracy does exist, it will do everything it can to deny the charges of both those who seek to expose it and those who claim to have been a part of it.
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"Three hundred men, all of whom know one another, direct the economic destiny of Europe and choose their successors from among themselves." Walter Rathenau, who in 1909 controlled German General Electric.
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"Fifty men have run America and that's a high figure." Joseph Kennedy, the father of the late president John Kennedy.
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"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In Fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any group, and frequently does so."
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"I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records." Dr. Carroll Quigley, a professor of History at Georgetown University's Foreign Service School, author of Tragedy & Hope.
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http://www.threeworldwars.com/intro.htm
are all designed, gentlemen! You need to read about the "Three World Wars" theory by William Guy Carr:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr
i would not wish it on anyone, too!
Brit....
It is true that terrorism is deliberate.... but the point is you are more likely to be harmed by these other events....
People are afraid of that which is less likely to harm them... which is an irrational behavior, isn't it?
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
You are correct. The "terrorism" angle is used by governments to monitor and control the masses.
However, you cannot equate, car deaths, malaria etc to terrorism. Terrorism is the act of deliberately taking a human life mainly for a cause which you may feel the other party does not agree with.
As i have stated, i have been the victim of a terrorist attack. i would not wish it on anyone..
some people MUST/NEED/DESPERATE to find an enemy in order to play, sell weapons, pay salaries...etc.
This enemy could be Nazis, Communism, the Japs, the Vietnamese, "islamic terrorism"...whatever
Excellent point Hash...
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Coming back to th main topic of this thread, which I found quite interesting, I believe that information is power. The more you know about somebody the more you can predict his actions and decisions and this puts him/her at an obvious disadvantage. Governments claiming to do this in the best interest of their citizens are actually consolidating their power and extending their reach. And the best argument to convince the masses of such draconian measures is FEAR. Fear of terrorism, crime, abuse...etc. So logically, a government that wants to consolidate its power must propogate such fear through the media and then provide the "ANSWER" by offering more safety through more surveillance, cameras..etc. Taking the threat of terror as an example, how many people have died in the attacks attributed to OBL? 10,000? Now compare that to the number of people who die every year of Malaria (2,000,000). Car accidents in the USA alone (50,000/year). And now which is the greater tragedy? But which gets more media coverage and attention? This makes it obvious that terrorism and fear of it is much more exaggerated for the purpose mentioned above and that measures to curb it are ridiculously enormous in comparison to measures to curb much more death caused by other reasons as previously mentioned. The point is that governments srtificially create fear, magnify it through the media in order to pursue their own interests and not the interests of their citizens. QED.
of course
At least we agree that here is a civil war in Iraq...
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32499.pdf
PAG.22 :"CRS 19"
I am always with the side that causes more casualties in the americans....or in any (western) invasion armies.
I am not a big fan of civil wars (only if they were to stop gay marriage laws :-)
Taking the example of Iraq..
The Shiites are fighting against the Sunnis.. So which side is the aggressor there and whic side would you be on ?
This thread is degrading into a weekend brawl at the pub. It started out good actually so its a pity that it has reached this neveau. Please let me know when you've all finished venting your hate at each other in this ridiculous rhetoric and are interested in returning to civilised debate.
Dont let them down now, will ya .....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
"The Police having a clampdown on Prostitutes, and now yer have nothing to do on a night ?"
come on...bring on some of your ladies
no Brad Pitt lookalike, and there was me with this preconceived idea of what you looked like :(
ah well, will keep dreaming lol
The Police having a clampdown on Prostitutes, and now yer have nothing to do on a night ?
And this mirror thing, i know im not a Brad Pitt lookalike, so what. Its no big deal.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
yes we all know that u r "cute, adorable, mama's darling boy..etc" but I will insist on holding the mirror in your face maybe you'd be able to see your ugliness soon.
Scar of QL, you confess: "Yes, I DO support my troops in Iraq..etc" which means that you are a prime example of hateful americans. In this case I was totally right when I said that people like you should live with the consequences of their choices, and that since you support a terrorist army killing civilians around the world, then it is fair & logical when others would support retaliation forces even if civilians like you or your family, would get a share of the fireworks.
Coclusion: supporting a terrorist army invading another countr, is actually "a potential threat with your comments about..." and people should face such hate with a double amount of it, in order for this world to be a better place.
I am not attacking you at all, I am just stating facts that you fail to see...no matter who is writting these words for me.
I'm betting you hide those explosives in your lovely hair..and I DO know..have had that done to me also...along with 3 personal checks in one airport..makes me wonder if they don't call ahead and say...get this one lady..she looks suspicious!!
Paul...of course i knew you were having a cold one...because it goes along with the popcorn you'd be eating while entertaining yourself on here...
You all have fun..I'm outta here to go on with the rest of my day!!
Ahmed...try and relax and enjoy life, its bad for your health to get all worked up like you do...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
You must know me too well !!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
With all this excitement.....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
obviously you've never seen a bug's ear..they are adorable!!! Sorry...forgot its an Southern saying...such as you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear...you imperalist pig...lmao...what a load of rubbish...I know you consider the source and ignore those comments..and in fact are probably laughing your tailend off, over a cold pint...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
you know, you made me go replay Ahmed the dead terrorist and I about laughed myself silly....again.
Now back to the main point of this thread...being allowed access to information is how the governments (not just the US either) caught some of the people behind terrorists acts. The more information gathered, the more accurate the arrests. Yes, there will be mistakes made by those that send in false accusations for personal gain but those are far and few between. To me its like being checked at the airport...yes its annoying and inconvenient, and I get stopped every single time when going through customs, upon returning to the US, because of where I now live, but you know what, its for the safety of everyone, not just Americans. You do what you have to do to make a safer world. Its gotten to be a joke at the customs counter and so I just laugh it off and crack jokes with the officers.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
That dont sound very complimentary to me. But then, what do i know, im just a nasty immoral western imperialistic pig, full of hate and bile...
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
and everyone agrees...you're officially cute.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
just let him spew, perhaps he can get all that badness out of himself...
besides...not so sure its him writing anyway...his writing style is usually a bit rougher. He prefers to get more verbally abusive..most likely has someone helping him as a ghost writer..he does that sometimes...which in this case is good since its tempered his posts into something almost civil.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
no way are you ugly...you are cute as a bug's ear and one of the nicest folks I've met.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
and a fine good morning to you also...
have to admit that you get me laughing every time I read anything you post. I have GOT to stop responding to your posts because its like having a gunfight with an unarmed man.
I post nothing that isn't already known to everyone on here. And in reference to your post saying I added nothing to this thread..beg to differ..I posted that you are a prime example of WHY people should be monitored by the governments. You, sir, are a potential threat with your comments about killing people because they belong to a country that your country is at war with. Yes, I DO support my troops in Iraq, but I support them to do their job, not when certain individuals express their dark side in a personal way, and without the backing of their superiors. Those kinds of actions are wrong in any society, as is retribution for such acts, since two wrongs don't make a right.
As far as my ability to bann people, I can't. You seem to do that to yourself on a regular basis tho, so don't blame me for your inadequacies as a human being. I also do notmake threats..the comments made by me on here were just to remind you that people ARE watching what is typed on here..both yours and mine and everyone else's.
I also don't "hate" anyone..i personally abhor that word and all that goes with it. I might dislike someone intensely tho, but I certainly don't intensely dislike you. What I feel for you is just plain pity for the hatred eating away at your soul and your insides. I hope Allah/God allows you to find peace someday, but you have to realize that He only helps those that help themselves first.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
"Hate" is a big thing that would consume oneself if it nests inside and I would not want to spend my life consumed by such ill-feelings."
So yer not consumed with hate for anything Western then
And yer can bang on all ya like about mirrors and shite, it doesnt bother me one bit.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
"..we actually are civilized.."...hahaha...good one!
Go and read some of your past posts...you will automatically hate yourself :-)
don't worry man! I don't hate these people. I am just having fun exposing them :-)
"Hate" is a big thing that would consume oneself if it nests inside and I would not want to spend my life consumed by such ill-feelings...I'd rather have some fun while I show some guys the kind of stuff they are really made of :-)
Anyway, we are not (yet) in a "war zone" and I wouldn't really call them "enemies"...but thank you so much for your kind advice.
Mr. Bol: "See Ahmed,sorry Rumpel" ...Wow! What a discovery!
But don't worry, I'll keep holding the mirror in your (ugly) face :-)
Cheers from Ahmad!
taking the piss outta you.....I baited yer and yer fell for it, again spewing anti west hatered !!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Easy now Rumpel...
The Prophet Muhammad stated, "Hate your enemy mildly; he may become your friend one day."
(Reported by al-Tirmidhee and al-Bayhaaqee reported it in Shee'aab al-Iman from Abu Hurairah. Al-Suyuti called it "hasan," while transmitting the first part as "Love your friend mildly; he may become your enemy one day.")
And Shaykh al-Albaanee declared it authentic as well.
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
it's something close to what britexpat said..something close to an entrapment...actually it's a kind of a bet with some friends...I bet them that those "civiliazed" westerners who keep preaching "peace" & "be nice to animals" all the time, are no different than any other human, and that I will be able to expose the ugly character inside each of them, once they are faced with the same hate which they have to others, once you wake them up from their dreams and make them see the real facts of life...make them see how the world is really moving...then see how they react...see the hate, swearing, attacks, bashing, and all the ugly things start floating...and there is no more "civilized peace-loving westerners"
And I think I succeeded in exposing some exampleslike you, scar, gypsy, alexa, red poo...and many others!
This is probably giving ya a hard on, abusing a westerner....
Is that the best ya can do ? Saying im ugly, which i know anyway!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
I only hold a mirror in front of your ugly faces :-)
Come on, we can purge all this hate from yer body.Keep throwing the insults, thats it, come on !!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
"GMs private bee-atch ?"
Yes I have seen her...a family member of yours?
At the new Airport site ?? Driver, Tea boy , GMs private bee-atch ?
Obviously, not a lot of work for you to do, as yer spend all yer time on QL spewing yer Iraqi Hate and Anti western tripe. Get a life yer knob !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
"have you seen me post anything at all bad "
All the time. If you look at your posts in this threat (as in most of your posts in all other threads) you will see that you added nothing to the topic. You only posted to attack me!In earlier posts, you even supported what your soldiers are doing to the Iraqi civilians. This shows what a hateful snake you are and why I point fingers at snakes like you. This is also why the amount of hate inside you should be faced with double hate, otherwise it would be such an ugly place here.
"its public knowledge...use it wisely"
As I said, I dont care for such threats!
"you just don't realize that you've lost a discussion.."
hahaha..nice try...that still makes you itchy & jumping to a discussion everytime your guys are stuck...and as usual, you start making threats, personal attacks, banning people...I mean all the typical attitude of an american!
hey, speaking of your name, did you realize you are calling yourself by a troll's name?? just curious..
sorry, I digress, let me finish what I started saying..."my" guys aren't stuck, you just don't realize that you've lost a discussion..and I didn't said anything earlier because I just now got on line...I actually HAVE a life...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
have you seen me post anything at all bad in this thread? nope, that's because I don't bash Muslims OR Arabs, in fact, I don't bash anyone, but I will call a snake a snake, so if the snakeskin fits, wear it
...and what I said wasn't a threat...its public knowledge...use it wisely
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
You always come to the rescue when when your guys are stuck?
"..everything you say and post on here is being noticed by all sorts of agencies.."
Nice threat...but doesn't bother me much :-)
What is important to me is I dont let hateful people like you turn this place (QL) into a snake nest for bashing other nations like arabs & muslims.
britexpat:
"HE could be from the agency - Its called entrapment"
Yeah...and I hav 2 more members with me; Catherine Zeta-Jones & Sean Conory
but i happen to know he's not...trust me on this one.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
There could be another reason..
HE could be from the agency - Its called entrapment..
ahh, I see you have resurrected yourself once again!! and as always spouting your nonsensical hatred for killing those who disagree with you. Its unbelieveable that someone of your age (and supposed knowledge, although that's pretty questionable the more you post) doesn't realize that everything you say and post on here is being noticed by all sorts of agencies. Your veiled threats and radical viewpoints just make more valid the need for surveillance all over the world. You are living proof of that fact.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
"The people who insulted and embarassed the prisoners in Abu Ghrab were punished and imprisioned.."
do you REALLY believe that the who issue was about some insults & embarassment? There was not torture & killing with cold blood?
Do you REALLY believe they were punished? Does the punishment suit the crime?
If you believe all the above then it is very normal that some people believe that Al-Qaeda doesn't exist!
"..if Iran and other terrorist.."
Wrong! I think that Iran is one of the leading countries that is fighting terrorism (such as Israel, USA, UK..etc)!
"What would the situation in Iraq be like if the different factions in wouldn't fight each other?"
What is the question again? What do you mean by "different factions in wouldnt"?
"..the men that were killed were engineers .."
Oh Sorry! The Iraqi prisnors who were tortured & killed were "Hydrogen Bomb developers"! So they "deserve" what happened to them! Do you also want to open the issue of the Israeli torture & killings to the Palestinean people since 60 years?
"..the Saudis said that Al Qaeda was responsible.."
You can say that to britexpat as this is an example of a crime you'd be charged with when you oppose to the ruler (note that I deny the existance of Al-Qaeda)
Please show me one picture where any Iraqi has been killed like this and or treated like this in a prison by an American Soldier? The people who insulted and embarassed the prisoners in Abu Ghrab were punished and imprisioned. How can you even begin to compare the two? I know I am wasting my breath, because I do know who I am speaking to. Have there been tradgedies
Just answer this one question for me....I believe I have asked it before of someone (possibly you!!) What would the situation in Iraq be like if the different factions in wouldn't fight each other? What would it be like if Iran and other terrorist ( I won't say Al Qaeda since apparetnly they do not exist) weren't causing problems? I know that that I am wasting my time typing one single word to you.
BTW...the men that were killed were engineers working on a project at Yanpet. They were not miliatary or covert agents. The women and children in the Arabian Homes compound were a big threat to these guys who attacked with machine guns. Many of you say that there is no Al Qaeda - the Saudis said that Al Qaeda was responsible for this. I believe they were also blamed for the other attacks in Saudi.
You have a nice day now 'ya hear.
I actually appreciate britexpat's "fresh" news.
Thanks for clarifying how the issue came, and what was britexpat's intentions.
Where would we be without you?
It was you who brought up the subject of USSR, Britexpat was merely correcting you, that the USSR does not now exist. What is your problem?
"the old "pen is mightier than the sword" routines.."
actually you were reporting "new" news on QL today about the USSR not existing anymore....man!
Talking about Controls ...controls were already in place......even on 9/11...but they were obviously not implemented (for one reason or another). Eg:
1. Customs official, let through people who shouldnt have been let through...on one but more than one.
So even if one has RFID passports & someone wants to
let such people pass through it still would be
possible.
2. Missing Flights
4 flights vanished from the radar & were untraceable
Obviously somebody delayed the info quite
conveniently. Again the controls were there it was
just not implemented.
3. Delayed action of NORAD.
These people know if a missile takes off from the opposite side of Earth...
Couldnt shoot down 3 more planes....ok they got 1 !!!
"Dragged out of their offices killed and then tied to the back of a car..."
when you see some of the photos of what the americans are doing to the Iraqi prisnors, you would be convinced that your little incident is justified! You have to fight hate with double-hate, otherwise peace can not be restored, Lisa!
"next step will be deportation....."
hahaha...first you should work on learning english!
I also heard that you believe that God has a son..hahaha!
Lisa1004 It seems more probable that the last few amounts of sheeple who believe the "official" Sept 11 story must be consuming the 'sweetest' of Jim Jones style Kool-Aid
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
A lot of such laws have been passed...pointing to the memory of 9/11.
These laws would not have been passed in any democracy... least of all USA.
If a Democratic nation takes away the freedom of people (for whatever reasons) then it is becoming a Communist Nation.
Also if a Govt has to curb the people it also means that the Police is not doing a good job, either they are hand-in-glove with the perperators or the perperators have infilterated the Police to a very high level.
I was a Theisman fn, but I remember the super bowl with Doug Williams. I think he was MVP that year after no one gave him a chance..
The old personalities seem to have gone from the game, but its still enjoyable..
One question though! Why do ou call it Football, when the ball is usually thrown or carried ?
Never understand the yanks:0)
Don't worry about the Rumbel mentality, I believe he is full of "Hidden Skeletons hiding inside his mental closet".
I already know his IP address and DNS.............next step will be deportation.....
"If we are going to solve the challenges we face - we can't vacillate - we can't shift depending on our politics"
Barack Obama
Very interesting article and responses. Amazing though that some people keep drinking the kool-aid about 9/11 (that is wasn't OBL and friends' behind it).
There was also an attack in Yanbu, one year after we left there. Wasn't too nice. Three ex-pats were killed. Dragged out of their offices killed and then tied to the back of a car and drug through the town. The only Western compound there was attacked as well. Thank God the children had not left for school yet. I won't go into detail but it was a horrible experience for our friends that were still there. Yep, big strong guys trying to attack women and children...yep they are really tuff!!
Philly, big Saints fan here. Live for football season around my house. Also a huge LSU fan as well - just 60 days till the next kick off in Tiger Stadium.
'Yall have a good evening now....
Aaaaah. So your a Deadskins fan (just kidding). I'm sure we'll be at each others throats in a few weeks.
Interesting enough my aunt was a cherleader for Syracuse University in the late 70's. She became good friends with Art Monk. He used to give us tickets every time the skins played in Philly. The only time I ever routed for them was the Super Bowl when Doug Williams was the qb.
I'm looking forward to some spirited trash talking sessions in the upcoming fall.
"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown
Like the Cowboys only for their "Cow girls"..
I'm a redskins fan.. Always liked Joe Gibbs, but he's gone again..
"Even though I don't like the Eagles"
Slow your roll Brit. lol Let me guess your a Cowboys fan.
"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown
Even though I don't like the Eagles, i think we can and should.
here endeth my participation for this theread!
Can't we all just get along?
"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown
Good one. the old "pen is mightier than the sword" routines.. ofcourse it keeps you out of the firing line..
Don't try to be smart! If I'd tell what I do in my spare time, then you'd know too much...then I'd have to whack you!
So you're one of those generals who prefers to fight from the office. Send the peasants out as canon fodder.
Good idea.
you may lead a battle on field, but words to enlighten the public and pointing a finger at evil, are essential in gaining more support to the integrity of your cause.
QL is one other field.
Surely, you shouldn't take time for QL or other such "luxuries", when your brothers and sisters are suffering and being exploited.
"Oh, you can't do that, because you don't want hardships or problems."
Don't try to be smart! If I'd tell what I do in my spare time, then you'd know too much...then I'd have to whack you!
I take my hat off to you.. Your grasp of history and world events has me astounded.
I just wish that rather than being proud of those "taking action", you would have conviction enough to join them.
Oh, you can't do that, because you don't want hardships or problems.
we are proud of those who take action instead of "moaning"....although that they might (wrongfully) be called "terrorists" :-)
"USSR used to be the Soviet Union.. It split up, hence Ukraine, Georgia, Russia are now seperate countries.."
Noooh! Don't tell me that EVEN Russia was with the USSR!
I still can't see how this is related to our discussion:
"If a terrorist army of a terrorist government (israel, usa, ussr..etc) is gonna invade a country & kill civilians, then the survivals of the victims should use weapons against the civilians of the terrorist governments.."
If you say that the USSR does not exist anymore (when did this happen?), then my above statement is still standing. (I am sure that the Afghani Mujahideen have fought against the USSR because if what you say is true then, logically, they have been fighting something/country that does not exist)
USSR used to be the Soviet Union.. It split up, hence Ukraine, Georgia, Russia are now seperate countries.
The answer to your comment is that the Jews have power. They used it. The Muslims should stop moaning all the time and get together to wield such power. then the world will listen to their grievances , if they have any legitimate ones.
"USA, Israel, UK etc are sovereign governments who don't resort to terrorism.."
hahaha...if this was true, then the world is free of terrorism!
"USSR doesn't exist anymore"
REALLY??? Then how did the Afghani Mujahideen fight a terrorist invasion army of country that does not exist?
On the other hand, and although Nazi Germany was destroyed, yet Germany, and many other countries had to pay compensations to the Jews for so many decades after that....although Nazi Germany does not exist anymore!
BTW, this is another example of punishing people (Germans) for deeds that were comitted by a regime (Nazi) which they did NOT elect. So if some would like to think that Hitler committed some holocaust (which he didn't), then the German people should not pay for Hitler's deeds, because they never elected him, or his 3rd Riech to rule Germany.
For a start USA, Israel, UK etc are sovereign governments who don't resort to terrorism.
USSR doesn't exist anymore.
You will see that, in the countries you talk about as being "invaded" usualy the locals are fighting between themselves and killing each other. Somalia being a perfect example.
well britexpat these are exactly the people i am defending all the time. And I will alway be happy when they decide not to yield to terrorism, lift their guns & weapons to fight back. If a terrorist army of a terrorist government (israel, usa, ussr..etc) is gonna invade a country & kill civilians, then the survivals of the victims should use weapons against the civilians of the terrorist governments (specially when these civilians have elected such terrorist governments)
We were talking bout local councils or such , using legal loopholes (powers accorded to tackle terrorism) to spy on peoplefor piddly things like trash collection, non payment of bills, co-habitig etc etc.
Even for the security agencies, the information such as email traffic, credit card details phone detailsshould only be made available after clearance by judge.
Who cares If any Government Agency is obstructive and deceiving, Would you like to be blown to pieces by some fanatic jerk? As long is all about my safety, I rather see everyone's "HIDDEN SKELETONS, COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET" in the name of safety.
You guys are overwhelming sensitive about it.
For what I'm concern mostly, is my safety, I don't care about the terrorist concepts, Oh bloody Hell! you guys lived under the guns of the IRA for decades. You should know the definition of Terrorist better than anyone else.
Live your life and move on unless you have something to hide then you need to worry about it.
"If we are going to solve the challenges we face - we can't vacillate - we can't shift depending on our politics"
Barack Obama
but I was mainly talking about credit reference agencies. If anyone wants to know certain things about how we conduct our credit, it is only on there for a number of years although open accounts are kept indefinitely. Once an account is closed, they hold it for six years from the settlement date. Searches done are only held for 2 years at the most.
Not just Whitehall. The council also. these jobsworths are paid by the taxpayer to make our lives a misery.
Strange concept.
All us Brits know how devious and sneaky those twats in Whitehall can be.......
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Your correct. Normally under the act, we have the right to see all data held on us, that includes if anyone has anything written down in a paper diary. But, Section 28 - National securityany processing for the purpose of safeguarding national security are exempt from all the data protection principles, as well as subject access rights,notification, enforcement, and unlawful obtaining of personal data. Or Section 29 - Crime and taxation.
One good thing, data can only be kept for a required number of years.
The fact is that once this data is released to "security agencies", they can use it as they see fit. As we've seen in the past seven years since 9/11 especially, agencies do not have to divulge the source of their information or even what information they may have on you.
We are on a very sticky wicket.
Oh my English lads!
Definitely your dry humor is irritated today, with the actions of your cousins across the pond.
You know what? My English people; as long is all about my safety and security at home, work etc, etc. I would mind, If they dig out your "hidden skeletons, out of the closet" more often.
Being Free has a price, is called: lets sacrifice lady liberty once in a while for the good of everyone.
Yet, I don't agree with certain things, but I would not dare, to go against the grain, they are twice bigger than me and they could reach superbly deeper into a large pocket than mY OWN and yours.
I did not know that there is British Talibans, Radical Islamic JIHADS and Alqaeda members....
Maybe they need to reinstate in England "the right to have guns for every citizen", since they lost that right a long time ago.
Life is a biatch, then you move on..
Don't worry, be Happy!
"If we are going to solve the challenges we face - we can't vacillate - we can't shift depending on our politics"
Barack Obama
You keep talking about victims. Wars have victims on both sides. What about the victims of terrorism?
I have been attacked in saudi arabia. i survived, but a Muslim friend and his whole family was killed. Are they not victims? Will you go off and kill the terrorists that carried out the attack ?
This was an attack on Muslims, in a Muslim country, by Muslims.
for a number of years when working in the UK and it's a mind field to read. Here are a few key principles:
Data may only be used for the specific purposes for which it was collected.
Personal information may not be transmitted outside the EEA unless the individual whom it is about has consented or adequate protection is in place, for example by the use of a prescribed form of contract to govern the transmission of the data.
Data must not be disclosed to other parties without the consent of the individual whom it is about, unless there is legislation or other overriding legitimate reason to share the information (for example, the prevention or detection of crime). It is an offence for Other Parties to obtain this personal data without authorisation
So even though it should not go outside of the EEA and data must not be disclosed without a person consent, there would be I think, legislation brought forward to allow this.
this is a typical western conclusion when the argument gets tighter, and there is no more place to manouver, but to confess the mistakes!
But don't worry, Inshallah, some brave men will not bow/yield to the stick, and will let the evil parties pay for their crimes.
we can argue till the cows come home. The bottom line is that he who has the stick, wields k
I couldn't watch the youtube because it was blocked, but i read a synopis of the book and also trwled the net for Al-Qaeda.
the thing is that nearly all sites (Pro and Con) acknowledge the existence of Al-Qaeda as an entity.
Even if we take it that Al-Qaeda is a figment of the CIA's imagination, you will admit that organziations are carrying out terrorist activities whatever they call themselves.
"i am authorizing them to act on my behalf"
This is my point! This is why they civillians in the west are responsible, and should take the consequences of the actions of their governments! Because other countries (victims) will not be willing to listen to explanations like: "Sometimes they get things wrong"! They simply want countries/governments to pay for their mistakes.
On the other hand, and in countries where governments are not elected, it would be a crime to punish the people for the actions of their governments. If we assume that Saddam was mistaken by moving his armies to invade Kuwait, then it would be a crime to punish the Iraqi people for the acts of a president/government, whom they did not elect.
Brit... I am sorry but I find that to be complete rubbish... Read Jason Burke's book on al-Qaeda. He is a chief correspondent for the Observer and researched his book while in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Did you watch the youtube video I posted??
Why is it there is no proof that they called themselves this name before the late 90's?
I am not saying that bin Laden is not a threat... I am not saying that there are not Muslims who think like this and are willing to act out on those thoughts... I am saying that the title is BS...
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
1979-1989: Soviet War in Afghanistan and the beginnings of al Qaeda
The true roots of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network stem from the decade-long conflict that plagued Afghanistan from 1979-1989. After Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviet Union, the Afghan Islamist extremists found a rallying call for their cause, as young Muslims from around the world came to Afghanistan to volunteer in what was being called a "holy war," or jihad, against the invading Soviets. One of these young Muslims was a 23 year old from Saudi Arabia named "Usama" bin Ladin.
Son of a wealthy construction magnate, bin Ladin had taken to the religious sermons of Abdullah Azzam, a Palestinian and disciple of Sayyid Qutb. While he participated in few actual battles in Afghanistan, bin Laden became known for his generous funding of the jihad against the Soviets.
However, bin Laden's ambitions extended beyond the boarders of Afghanistan, and he began to develop a complex international organization. He set up a financial support network known as the "Golden Chain," comprised mainly of financiers from Saudi Arabia and Persian Gulf states. Using this immense new fund, bin Laden and Azzam created a "Bureau of Services," which helped channel recruits for the jihad into Afghanistan. With Saudi Arabia and the United States pouring in billions of dollars worth of secret assistance to rebels in Afghanistan, the jihad against the Soviets was constantly gaining momentum.
1989-1996: Early al Qaeda attacks from Sudan
When the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan in early 1989, bin Laden and Azzam decided that their new organization should not dissolve. They established what they called a base (al Qaeda) as a potential general headquarters for future jihad. However, bin Laden, now the clear emir of al Qaeda, and Azzam differed on where the organization's future objectives should lie. Azzam favored continued fighting in Afghanistan until there was a true Islamist government, while bin Laden wanted to prepare al Qaeda to fight anywhere in the world. When Azzam was killed in 1989, bin Laden assumed full charge of al Qaeda.
After leaving Afghanistan and being exiled by Saudi Arabia, bin Laden moved to Sudan, and with him went the base of operations for al Qaeda. From the sanctuary of Sudan, bin Laden began synching up with groups from all over the Middle East and northern Africa, and began laying the groundwork for his jihad against the West.
Beginning with a fatwa called against the United States' deployment to Somalia, bin Laden would continually plan and aid attacks against the United States. Al Qaeda trainers allegedly aided in downing two Black Hawk helicopters in 1993. Bin Laden and al Qaeda also took credit for the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. In 1995, al Qaeda associates were responsible for a car bomb that exploded outside a Saudi-U.S. joint facility in Saudi Arabia that was used to train the Saudi National Guard.
1996-2000: The rise of the Taliban resurrects al Qaeda
Due to mounting international pressure, Sudan forced bin Laden to return to Afghanistan, where he struggled to rebuild his terrorist network. It was not until the rise of the Taliban that bin Laden had al Qaeda working again, and had enough confidence to issue his 1998 fatwa against the United States and its citizens. By this time, al Qaeda had merged with the Egyptian Islamist Jihad, headed by Ayman al-Zawahri, who would become number two in command to bin Laden. Al Qaeda was now the general headquarters for international terrorism.
While previous acts by al Qaeda had involved training, funding and aiding other groups, the new refuge in Afghanistan allowed for bin Laden to take his organization to the next level. In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were attacked by terrorists, yet this time, it was planned, directed and executed solely by al Qaeda and bin Laden. Al Qaeda would also be responsible for the 2000 strike against the U.S.S. Cole in Yemen, which left 17 American sailors dead.
2001- September 11 and al Qaeda Today
On September 11, 2001 al Qaeda executed its most devastating attack against the United States, killing nearly 3,000 civilians. However, the United States military response in Afghanistan would serve to cripple al Qaeda for a significant amount of time. With the protection of the Taliban gone and bin Laden in hiding, al Qaeda became far more decentralized, with operational commanders and cell leaders making the command decisions previously made by bin Laden. However, as a recent National Intelligence Estimate report showed, al Qaeda is once again gaining strength, and has significantly rebuilt itself despite U.S. efforts.
Brit... again.... are you expecting an argument from me??? =)
I agree with you 100%!! BUT I am saying that they only came together upon this name after the American government started to use it....
They were very loosely affiliated with a common cause... Not anymore....
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Covert agencies will always take "measures" to further their aims. we saw this with the Iran/Contra affair. Mossad and I am sure others do the same.
In this instance "Al Qaeda" is used as a bogeyman to give the fight on terror a focus. something the ordinary person in the street can relate to..
However, it is also naive to think that Al-Qaeda or a "network" does not or cannot exist. Goen are the days of Bader Meinhoff and red Brigade. Now, especially with the advancement of communications, "like minded" groups are able to work together to achieve their common goals.
bin Laden... or as I prefer to call him 'Emmanuel Goldstein'... is a tool.
He is the fanatic's head cheerleader... My brain will not let me believe that this man is responsible for anything other than being a cheerleader....
In fact, directly after the Sept 11 attacks he denied responsibilty BUT praised the acts... THEN when he realized this was his wet dream come true... He started saying how they had planned this for such and such a time...
Reichstag..... Marinus van der Lubbe.... Twin Towers/Pentagon.... Usamaah bin Laden.....
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Alexa I understand where you are coming from... BUT... I think it does matter...
If covert factions who operate within certain 'democracies' are utilizing this NAME in order to fuel the fire in a 'war' on terror... PLEASE... see how much that matters....
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Brit... are you expecting an argument from me on that point???!!
I am merely pointing out that there is a position held by many 'normal' people that 'al-qa'eeda' is a bunch of BS that some Muslims latched onto because of their issues with the American government. It was not the creation of the fanatic and deviant bin Laden...
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
As an elected government, i am authorizing them to act on my behalf. Sometimes they get things wrong. In that case, i have the right to vote them out the next time.
I do not regard my government as evil. in fact, i believe that they are sometimes too liberal in some actions.
This means you guys ARE electing the evil governments that are having wars & invasions around the world, thus you are actually participating, as civillians, in these wars...so you have to take the consequences!
i think you said it very well..
We "elect" and you allow yourselves to be enslaved/governed. why not stand up for yourselves and say ENOUGH.
You must also understand that whilst we would all like to live in La La land with milk and honey, reality is somewhat different.
ALL nations take steps to do what they percieve to be best for their own people. This is exactly what the USA and others are doing.
The root causes of the dissatisfaction Muslims feel against Western powers are numerous. I am sure that some are justified.
However, the taking of lives and carrying out acts of terrorism is not only against the essence of islam, but also acts to widen the gap of misunderstanding.
"the american public constantly speaks out against the government..."
But the difference is; you guys ELECT criminal/terrorist governments who, in their turn, decide who to place as rulers/governments for us people. And when we speak against our governments (who are placed by YOUR governments), then YOUR governments order OUR governments to call these protesters as "terrorists" (although YOUR governments "believe in, and promote democracy")
Alexa, Please watch this youtube video regarding whether al-Qa'eeda exists or not.
The foremost expert in this field is shown in this video. His name is Jason Burke and wrote a very telling book called 'Al-Qaeda: The True Story of Radical Islam'
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
From Dante's Inferno: Canto XIII, the suicide's soul...
...
It falls into the forest, and no part
Is chosen for it; but where Fortune hurls it,
There like a grain of spelt it germinates.
It springs a sapling, and a forest tree;
The Harpies, feeding then upon its leaves,
Do pain create, and for the pain an outlet.
...
Behind them was a forest full of black
She-mastiffs, ravenous, and swift of foot
As greyhound, who are issue from the chain.
On him who had crouched down they set their teeth,
and him they lacerated piece by piece,
Thereafter boare away those aching members
Thereat my Escort took me by the hand,
And lead me to the bush, that all in vain
Was weeping from its bloody lacerations.
With all due respect. I write to the western papers regularly. When there are protests against the war, it is usually the "westerners" who march and make their voices heard.. The majority of Muslims sit at home and complain of government policies and racism, but don't take to the streets or make their voices heard..
You keep talking about scholars . Why not think for yourself. Stand up for what you think is right. Let your voice be heard...Too many muslims are led astray by so called scholars..
doesn't it make sense that some element of ignorance and being led astray had to happen from both sides for conflicts to have started.
A fight takes two to tango! And the cause was not the actual war. It would be naive to believe that every move America has made is for security measures. Given that their own political policy is to dominate other territories.
Both sides have alot of issues. And even more so both people have been subjected to leaders trying to justify their actions. And hide their faults.
All muslims had a legislated jihad in chechnya and Afghanistan because it was an invasion over land. Any persons right! Some (few) muslims felt protective of their muslims brothers in Afghanistan, Iraq and palestine from American and Israel invasions. Again it is also their right to protect their muslim brothers from such wrongful invasion. And in fact, the only reason the scholars said it was unlawful was 1.) unlawful to do so in protecting the corrupt regimes and 2.) because we did not have enough strength to fight against America or Israel and therefore needed to take a step back and gain more strength.
And personally I would have not hesitated had the scholars called for jihaad due to America and Israel unlawfully invading those countries.
However, jihaad does not include suicide bombings or killing innocent people. I.e. going to europe and blowing a few things up.
That is all due to our (wests) ignorance and being led astray due to our own (the wests) hunger for power and control which have had negative consequences in the Islamic world. We are a victim of the international problems our goverments have created due to our own superiority complexes. (I.E. we think we have the best system in the world and decree that all others should think so too)
Having said all that .. how serious is the terrorist threat truly? (not the media scare it is made to be) And how can we, in the west, show the muslims that we are all not bad and voice our opinions concerning the wrongs of our goverment. (not being racist and islamicphobic would be a start)
Earlier you mentioned that muslims don't have a voice.. I would like to know where is the voice of westerners who are against the terrorist and atrocities supported and enacted by western goverments. Why do you guys not speak up against such things. And try to support muslims and also sympathise with their situation?
At the end of the day, while I do not agree with the ideology of the majority muslims. And definately not the terrorist acts of the minorities. I also do not agree with the unprecedented support of and westerners who also have their head buried in the sand concerning their own goverments.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
So what you're baically saying is that in all these "conflicts" the Muslims were either led astray or did so out of ignorance..
You see what I mean by "burying your head in the sand" ?
First things is first... the war against russia in afghanistan was considered an islamically condoned jihaad. So was the war in chech. And most muslims agree with that.
The only reason the invasion of america against afghanistan was not legistlated by the scholars (although some muslims still warranted it as a jihad due to their own support of the taliban) is because the taliban were deobandites and on plain error according to many scholars. However, for alot of muslims this is still up in the air and many believe that America had no right to invade a country for one individual and kill thousands in the process.
The situation is somewhat different in Iraq as Saddam hussein and the baathist party are considered non muslims by many scholars. Really it should have been a muslim country to sort the two of them out but we are too weak islamically to do so ...
Most of your average day (uneducated about islam) muslims are happy that saddam is gone. Particularly the shias and kurds and it is only very few who supported the iraqi regime who felt it an obligation to call jihaad in Iraq.
For both the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions by america many of the muslims who did not support the regimes simply felt that America had no business in those countries and therefore felt they were doing jihaad by protecting their muslim brothers and sisters who are being killed.
The same mentality exists concerning the crisis in palestine and also terrorist cells who believe that America and its supporters are the biggest murderers of this century. And they feel it is their islamic duty to fight against a non muslim power with a superiority complex that wishes to dictate and influence the way they live.
Where as the palestinians feel it is their islamic duty to fight in any means possible for their land and dignity that Israel and through americas support has been wrongfully taken away.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"Habibah, a member of my family was in such an attack"
then you can imagine how does it feel if this was the daily breakfast for some people/nations
A friend's teenage son suddenly disppeared to Pakistan five years ago.. They managd to trackhim down to the Afghan border and py a ransom to bring him back...
Thousands of Saudis, Pakitanis and Arabs went to fight initially against the Russians in Afghanistan. Some even went to Chehniya.. Many are now fighting in Iraq..
Why are so many doing this and why doesn't the peacefulmajority take steps to stop this??
Alexa
your not the only one scared! I am also scared! Everytime I see another muslim on a plane (particular a non bearded one) I freak out.
I just do not believe that the situation is accurately depicted or that America has the right to develop a big brother type goverment. That also scares the crap out of me!
if you want to feel safe & have your people feel safe, well then stop your terrorist acts against others...no? :-)
if you want to invade countries & kill people here & there then it is very fair that you & your people will get a share of the fire-works
For every action there is a reaction
Even a child knows this fact :-)
Brit expat I agree with you in that we need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories. That is a huge problem in the muslim community.
I do not agree that they are burying their heads in the sand though. The majority of muslims actively detest all terrorist acts and have voiced this in numerous ways. From writing books, speaking on television (though this has been cut out by the media), and having anti terrorism conferences. In every mosque in the uk terrorism is usually talked against and in most islamic circles people talk against it.
The people of saudi arabia are not religious. Although the country is the land of Tawheed and religion is taught in the schools very few people bother to practice properly and are extremely cultural and corrupted.
It is no surprise that a pocket in saudi arabia could aquire such weapons as it is very easy through family connections to get a hold of such things. All one needs is to have a fanatical prince on his side. Or perhaps the guy who buys saudis weapons. My ex husband's uncle bought the weapons for saudi from America and UK and got a cut from each from each country. Through him alot of people could easily grab hold of such things without the goverment even knowing about it. Saudi has alot of corruption!
However, I would seriously doubt that this was some huge organization let alone connected with some made up Al Qaeda that doesn't even exist. It was most likely a group of muslims who wanted to show westerners a lesson!
This type of ideology is a threat. Their is no doubt that a large number of muslims carry these beliefs however I have never heard of nor seen any such organization as the one constantly talked about on TV. To be honest, most muslims are all talk and no action.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Alexa people like me are actually part of the solution! As terrorism is not part of Islam in any way!
I'm not one to pull wool over other peoples eyes or myself about Islam. I am very straight forward and have well researched my religion.
Whats more I am an american who was at one time young and naive to believe that America always had the worlds best interest in mind. However after my own personal experiences with some of the so called criminals who committed these acts I am no longer convinced.
If their was such a network then as I said.. alot of muslims such as myself would know about it.
And I cannot believe that any smart or intelligent person would believe the propaganda just because someone/or news station tells you it is the truth. If someone told you to jump off a bridge would you listen to them too?
The fact is that no one knows the entire truth! And no one can trust any goverment after they have already been caught in so many lies!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I am surprised that you label Saudi Arabia as "non practicing", since it is the cradle of Islam.
My compound wa attacked by men impersonting security personnel. They had security jeeps, grenades, heavv firearms and good logistics. The bomb detonated about 100 mtres from my house, but yet damaged my propety. They also videoed the attack.This cannot be done by a rabble. It needs supply lines and a good communicatios network.
I agree that they may be a minority. But its a large minority and the Muslim community as a wole has to stand up and denounce these actions, rather than burying their heads in the sand and coming up th conpiracy theories all the time.
Brit expat I agree that the threat is very real.. and let me say that I am so sorry to hear about your experience and your muslim neighbors.
Muslims are angry and their is alot of anti western propaganda. Something I have been equally active in trying to change. As most individuals have little knowledge about Islam.. particularly in non practicing saudi arabia.
Even then, the majority of muslims are completely against such activities. Yet that does not stop a few obsessed characters from committing criminal activities. At the end of the day these people are criminals and not neccessarily part of some large 10,000 member organization.
Committing a crime is wrong and punishable! However pockets of criminals exist all over the world. The difference is that we do not hear about it and it is not used to control the whole world through legistlation that Brit expat posted about phone tapping and surveillance.
Legislation which Brit Expat rightly said can be abused to hurt our democratic rights at the least. And even used to set individuals up and persecute the innocent! I do not put anything past the goverment!
Hell I can't even rent a house without the landlords trying to set me up so they don't have to give me my deposit. So how about the goverment who is in it for power, money and glory?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
PH-
"it has been well recognized that Al Qaeda does not exist. Even the US goverment has made a statement that this name was created initially by the US"- can u quote any sources for this info?
Abt Nawaf al ghamdi- no one ever doubted the existence of hypocrats among this bunch.
Also how do u explain the Bin Laden video tapes that talk abt Al-qaeda that come out now n then? they too are fabricated by media?
Abt Osama being dead/alive..yeah u might b right...but cant say for sure, right?
Looks like u've known quite a lot of interesting characters!!( no offence intended) :-)
Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!
I agree that the "terrorism" threat is being played tio the full by governments to gain more control over individuals...However, the threat is real..
I was in a compound that was hit by terrorists in Saudi Arabia. Luckily, we managed to hide in the laundry room whilst the gunfight went on. My house was damaged, my son suffered minor injuries, my car destroyed and a dear 'muslim' friend was killed along with his wife and two children aged 3 years and 4 months. When i ventured out, I found my neighbour's three year old daughter in shock.
Please tell me that this was not the work of terrorists, especially in a Muslim country.
Alexa it has been well recognized that Al Qaeda does not exist. Even the US goverment has made a statement that this name was created initially by the US!
Yes Osama exists.. yes he influenced a few fools.. Yes they trained in some tactics.. through connections but they were not as organized as you think. I didn't want to say.. although I typed it many times but I happen to know nawaf al ghamdi who was in one of the attacks. He was not religious.. in fact he failed his studies from partying too much and knowing his personality probably thought it would be a fun ride. He was known to do stupid things like that and make rash decisions. I talked to his father one time and he was pretty upset with Nawaf about failing his studies and having girlfriends.
So yes I am trying to say that America has completely exaggerated the whole situation. And Al Qaeda does not exist.
Hence one of the reasons I do not believe a word that comes out of the medias mouth. Having experienced them writing articles about me and my family for decades and also knowing quite a few people who have been connected with Al Qaeda and sent to guat. bay.
One guy in particular had an anti western website in which he advocated rebellion against the west. In fact, I know of this guy so well that I would stake my life on the fact that he never even heard of Al Qaeda and never ever took part in the planning or actions of any terrorist act.
I have known guys who have been afghanistan to fight against russia. And not one of them have heard of Al Qaeda..
It just doesn't bloody exist! And Osama is not the ring leader of some sophisticated organization as he can barely look after himself at the moment. If he is still really alive.
So hell no I don't believe a word that comes out of the media concerning terrorism.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
PH: Some clues as to the organisation & Planning
1. 19 hijackers trained in handling flights- bunch of individuals getting lucky???dont think so!
2. Infiltration in to the country and formation of sleeper cells - along with all social security , licenses and sdocumentations of the individuals involved- no planning???
3.Big cell networks are constituted of a lot of individuals - some of whose fanatisicm overpowered their discretion and allowed themselves to be caught. Doesnt mean there was no cell.
4. Suicide squads: It takes extensive indoctrination to turn a human being into a live bomb. No way it can be achieved by chance or a coupla individuals.
Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!
Alexa
how do we really know that 9/11 wasn't done by a few individuals who just got lucky. And their is absolutely no way some of these guys were part of some sophisticated set up. It is most likely that they were just off the beaten track and decided to get together after watching too many movies. And everything else could very well be propoganda.
And I think that the fact that small time cops have been the ones to thwart terrorists is enough evidence to say they probably do not belong to some big cell network.
If there was then I am more then confident that I would have heard about it and be invited in such networks!
Facts are that we don't know if what the goverment is telling us true or just exaggerated to suit their ambitions. Either way.. I don't believe a word that comes out of anyones mouth concerning the situation!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Life is not as simple as it used to be... Now communications are easier, travel is easier and the internet has brought people together.
"Data Mining" is now a maturing science.
Ofcourse another reason is that security is big business and billions of dolars are at stake.
I Agree Brit, but there will be too many patterns that evolve to make sense of -even if you allow for all the multi-million-computations-a-second super computers.
Most counter terrorism success stories,IMHO,stem from the oldfashioned officer-on-the-beat or the men on the street using their brains!!
What I dont understand is why such an extensive search when most of the activities are from groups known suspected and even surveilled?
Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!
this was my whole point... Jobsworths get power and it goes to their heads.
Winn - I will get squadron of Female Freedom Fighters to accompany me to check my enemy hideouts (Discos, Night clubs)and reward them lavishly ;)
the idea is to gather as much data as possible, so matter how disparate and then use "intelligent analytical systems" to produce patterns or predict actions.
This is feasible. However, as with anything, it is not 100% accurate.
Mafi:Goa- lotsa freedom n some fighters too...n knowing you u r likely to get urself beaten up sooner or later :-p
Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!
winn - any freedom fighters in Goa :( I will but them that drink for more freedom ;)
Alexa - it is like a pluge :(
Well, ther's something called too much information. Like You build up a huge haystack n then u look for a pin....
Terror groups world wide are getting much smarter in communications and finance. They depend on simplistic solutions like a messenger on a bike rather than satellites or phones. Was reading something abt coded messages thru internet sites teh other day...
Travel histories n such will not show whether it was the same person hu travelled in diff names...
But corporates might hav beter use for the info, i feel.
Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!
My sister lives in Poole, Dorset, (it's our home too). Recently a letter was sent by the council threatening her with prison if she failed to immediately bring in her wheelie bin after the refuse collectors (bin men) had been. They come at 11am on a Tuesday, she is being penalised for being one of the few people in the area who actually works. She has to come home at lunchtime now in case they come and take photos. I also believe that their new found confidence to bully innocent people about refuse (rubbish) comes from a new found power. I would happily submit my privacy to a government capable of running the country. Let me know if we get one...
Alexa - Freedom Fighters are here also ;(
Next they'll want to know how many times each person goes to the toilet each day, how long he/she stays there each time, and the amount of sh*t and volume of urine they produce....
It just goes to show that we really can't believe anything we hear these days. At the end of the day, the media feeds us lies what the goverments would like us to believe.
If its not the muslim propaganda that america and the west is the enemy its the US propaganda that sophisticated terrorists networks actually exist. I try to take it all with a pinch of salt!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Its the old question about "who watches the watcher".
Terrorism has to be addressed and on a global scale. however, the gathering and use of information/data has to be controlled to safe guard civil rights and liberties..
The following is real can be taken as funny, but shows the dangers...
Swedish authorities arrested a man for libel for falsely sending the FBI an email, ratting out his son-in-law by saying he had Al Qaeda ties.
The 40 year-old son-in-law was in the midst of divorcing the man's daughter, and his wife wanted him stay home and help with their child instead of traveling to the U.S., Agence France-Presse reports.
When the husband refused to stay home, his father-in-law wrote an email to the FBI saying the son-in-law had links to al-Qaeda in Sweden and that he was travelling to the US to meet his contacts.
He provided information on the flight number and date of arrival in the US.
The son-in-law was arrested upon landing in Florida. He was placed in handcuffs, interrogated and placed in a cell for 11 hours before being put on a flight back to Europe...
How do you know those fanatic, brutal and have no sense for others does not also describe the USA goverment?
At the end of the day, they are out for themselves. this is in all the political uni textbooks if one dares to read. The very core of American politics is state domination of other territories.
how do we know that these attacks were not created by the USA in order to dominate the world through all these terrorism so called protection schemes?
The threat to yourself and person is far less by a few fanatical muslims then the US. In fact, the more control the US has the more freedom fighters we are going to see. Some who get the mark wrong and see bombing as a good thing. And the more control america has the more capability they will have to create false evidence (like the war in Iraq) to persecute those individual freedom fighters (harmless muslim and non muslim) who do not agree with world domination by the state.
Their is no democracy in this type of political system and alot of people will no longer have the right to protest for their rights and expect to be heard. And although I personally believe democracy is a red herring, even the idea will become non existant if we allow the goverment to monopolize our lives and control every move we make.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
It would be funny if it wasnt so serious an issue !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Part of world policing...
Every lady hopes that her daughter will marry a better man than she did. And is convinced that her son will never find a wife as good as his father did!!!
As the saying goes.. "to be forewarned is to be forearmed...
We should be a little paranoid, but our governments and their agencies are going to far and we are losing our civil liberties..
As an example; The UK, passed a law allowing councils to "tap" people's phones if they were suspected of illegal acts.. This was mainly in response to terrorist threats..
It seems , many councils have been using phone tappeing to spy on householders to get information relating to house extensions, council tax, benefit claims etc..
this is to me an abuse of the system..
Besides being a paranoid person aren't you just a bit curious as to whether these were all set up by the us in the first place?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Its just hard to trust people in this world. I agree with that! Lets get real though even with all the mistrust we have does it make it okay/ neccessary to run surveillance to this extent?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
But i'm sure our Yank friends will confirm.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
good point alexa! is it everybody else?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I personaly think that the Americans have become paranoid after 9/11, but also they are using 'terrorism or threat of terrorism" to enforce their own ideas.
Remember, since 9/11, the Americans have pumped billions into security services and these organziations have to justify their existence,.
http://www.jhunewsletter.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=f6bf0d0f-919e-47d8-a3ab-9a67f0dfb3dd
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
They are the worlds police after all ............
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
So lets do some protests Brit.. you can put your underwear on your head and I'll cover my face.... that should raise some eyebrows.
No your really right! We need to stand up for ourselves even if we stand alone. One person can make a difference!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
It starts with a few..
i recall we used to go and march outside the South African embassy, during my university days..
The problem is that these days people have forgotten how to speak up or stand up for their rights..
The problem is that not enough people will bother to stand up for themselves. Its something they put in our water I guess. ;)
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I agree its very scary and in my opinion an infringement on civil liberties..
However, in relation to my article, I would agree with MP..
best way is to boycott the USA all together... Trouble is its easier said than done...
yep the anti christ is on his ways! A manipulator, liar and thief he will pretend to be something he isn't only to reveal himself after he has gained trust, power and control of our lives.
Carry on dudes!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"They are basically saying to the airlines and EU - "You want to come to the USA, then you have to agree to these"
Well simple, just dont go to the US !
Philly, its cos those limp wristed twats who claim to run our country have given most of our laws, choices and freedoms to the other twats in brussels !! Now, we have NO say in how our country is run....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
"The EU is close to finalising an agreement with the US that would allow the FBI to see the internet browsing habits and credit card histories of UK citizens."
I know it the EU but I am suprised that England is letting the EU do this. Since they are an EU member I would think they should have a say rather than letting the EU dictate this policy to them. Also why is it only the UK and no one else?
Its not England, Its the EU..
As I said before, the Big Dog carries a lot of clout..
They are basically saying to the airlines and EU - "You want to come to the USA, then you have to agree to these"
Wow. I'm suprised England is going to allow that.