Sharia law in the UK. Is it a good idea?
Here is an article that appeared in today's London Times.
Family of teen Muslim invited men to rape herAbul Taher
A GIRL of 15 was tricked into a "telephone marriage" ceremony to a Sheffield man with a mental age of five in a ceremony recognised by sharia (Islamic law).
When the girl arrived from Pakistan expecting to meet the handsome man she had been shown in a photograph, she found that he was 40 years old, unemployed and disabled.
To make matters worse, her mother-in-law decided to exploit her attractive looks by forcing her into prostitution.
The family invited men to the family home to rape her before she managed to escape to the police by bolting through the front door. She was taken into care and now lives in a refuge.
The case is highlighted in a report by the Centre for Social Cohesion, which has found that policemen, councillors and taxi drivers are turning a blind eye or even conniving in enforcing the Asian community's strict "moral code" on young women.
The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain. She is typical of the runaway brides at risk of an "honour killing". According to official figures, 10 to 12 women are murdered in Britain in honour killings each year, but the government has been warned by MPs that this is a serious underestimate. Police often record the deaths as cases of domestic violence, while other girls are driven to suicide or taken away to their family's country of origin and never seen again. Many Asian parents would rather resort to violence against their children than see their reputation tarnished by the perceived dishonour of allowing them to become "westernised".
The report, Crimes of the Community, claims the problem is no longer an issue of first-generation migrants importing attitudes from "back home" but is "indigenous and self-perpetuating" because it is sustained by third and fourth-generation immigrants.
The study reveals the case of Saamiya, a 16-year-old girl from Birmingham, whose parents were so angry when they discovered she had a boyfriend that they flew her to Pakistan and told her they had arranged a marriage two hours before the ceremony.
"During the Islamic ceremony my dad was standing behind me with one hand on my shoulder and with his other hand he had a gun which was pointed at my back so that I didn't say 'no'," Saamiya said.
"To everyone else it looked natural — he was just standing there stroking my shoulder — but just before he had told me that he would shoot me if I didn't go through with it."
She was rescued from Pakistan by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's forced marriage unit and now lives in a refuge in the Midlands, but has been told that she will be murdered by her brothers. The girl told investigators: "I haven't been back home since then. My brothers say that they want to take me back to Pakistan so they can kill me basically. They'll just pay the police there to keep quiet... I don't want to be killed. I'm only 16. I want to live my life."
The think-tank's report comes after Gordon Brown, the prime minister, said last week that he was extremely concerned that too little was being done to prevent honour crimes.
The study criticises the police and schools for failing to take action in a misguided attempt to avoid offending cultural sensibilities.
Karma Nirvana, a support group in Derby, claims it asked local schools last year to display warning posters produced by the forced marriage unit. It said the schools refused.
Derby council last week denied that the group had made the requests, but the prime minister has pledged to investigate reports that the government unit cannot get its advice posters into schools for fear of upsetting local opinion.
According to the report, women who go to the authorities to seek protection have been tracked down through their mobile phones or even by leaks of confidential information from government databases.
Jasvinder Sanghera, director of Karma Nirvana, said that police who find girls who have escaped from their families often simply return them to their parents where they face further abuse, with some Asian officers actually colluding in crimes. Sanghera is taking a case to the Independent Police Complaints Commission of a girl who fled her family but was kidnapped by relatives and held prisoner. She claims that a police officer tipped off the family where the girl was staying.
"Police have a long way to go before they get on top of honour crime. There is a lingering fear among officers of being dubbed racist for probing cultural issues. We've got to shake off that myth," she said.
I have many friends in the UK with different religions, colour & cultures, they are my friends because I like them, not because of religion, colour or culture. I don't usually like say I have a friend who is a particular religion (although I have said this in the past) but sometimes you have to, just to make it clear to someone you are not a racist.
I also find it very strange, when someone clearly does not like the country they live in, yet moan about it. We have a choice, if a person does not like a place, you can move. Just like we chose to come & live in Qatar and yes we do like it here.
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It would be childish to say .. well the english started it.. or the muslims started it during the Ottoman period.. Or the catholics are to blame.
rather we should forget whatever happened in the past and try to look forward to a bright future. Where we muslims and non muslims can teach our children not to hate or feel inferior to any other person based on race, color, culture, class or religion.
having lived in a town in the UK where we have quite a lot of asian people, I can say that asians do not seem to have any desire to integrate into the community, just like the lady you spoke to mentioned. It's a shame that it is that way.
We have had riots, the last one being in the summer of 2001. It saw some of the worst rioting in Britain for a many years, over 200 people are injured and over 36 people were arrested during several hours of running battles between riot police and about 1,000 mainly Asian youths. Buildings and cars are burned, and shops are looted in the Asian district of the city. Several riots followed a few days later, when a hundred white youths attacked police, and an Asian-owned Pizza restaurant,was destroyed by a gang of white youths.
It occurred as a result of heightened tension between the ethnic minority communities and the city's white majority, stoked by confrontation between far right groups.
Relations have now improved but only time will tell if it will stay that way. I hope it does.
What I am trying to say is, there are faults on both sides, it's not just one sided.
( never assumed richard was racist.. only that the title did not fit the actual article)
Now that you have clarified for me that you went to school in texas, america and that the minorities were black.. I have a better understanding of where you are coming from.
However this is not the same case out here in britain where a completely different set of rules, prejudice and hidden racism exists. Officially britian is a classless tolerant country. And one is very grateful that all religions and opinions are able to be expressed within Britian. However a very subtle form of class does exist, although rarely spoken and an ultimate sin if a person voices its existance.
In america.. we have a much different situation with social dynamics. Black people have over the past 30 years just after the 1960's and early 1970's found greater autonomy to voice racism. It has come to the point where white people are constantly harrassed with the "racism" that seems to magically inflict so many african americans. While the majority of whites have completely accepted a multiracial community (although one may find it odd that we have moving white communities when an new build area becomes "rough" which usually means more black and hispanics move in: at least in california). On closer look at african americans in america one will notice that they do have a higher tendancy to join gangs, divorce, children out of wedlock, end up in prison, permiscuous behaviour.. ectr. This is the result of many reasons... One of them being the break down of families under slavery and the persecuation african americans felt after slavery (different water fountains). And even with all the advantanges, freedom, opportunities and acceptance as black americans who have a fighting chance to become anything they choose in america the bitterness of their ancestors, the disheartened who grow up in poverty and broken families that have led to instability also lead to bitterness and common mentality of that particular group that forms of racism is still rampant in america. My opinion is that this is because many people focus on the negative aspects rather than all the positive. And prob. have not lived in many other countries, like europe or middle east, where a black person feels inferior due to his color (for a variety of reasons) (no pointing fingers here people)
So it now does not surprise me that in texas.. the minority who are african american would take advantage of the newly gained tolerance in the last 40 years to poke and prod and cause havoc. It should also be remembered that the break down of families and dysfunction that was the result has alot to do with the way you were treated.. And the guilt and newly found tolerance the reason they actually got away with it. Would I be right in assuming they were part of a gang?
even if they were not part of a gang.. which many african americans are not! the fact that they choose to stick together, some groups refuse to have white friends, and they have parties where only black people are invited is indeed a form of racism that has developed within the african american community. (I am not at all saying that racism doesn't still exist against african americans.. although I would like to add that it is much more rampant in europe or even the middle east)
When I started university in the 1990's I had the experience of living with a black women who I eventually called my adopted mother. She was from savanna georgia and a southern belle. It was the greatest experience of my life.. because even though I was a white girl I was to see first hand the "racist" black community. She was by the way a racist black towards whites! Her ex husband was a former leader of one of the biggest crip gangs in southern california. And when we rolled .. it was in limos.. and when she dated it was with ballers, basketball players, stuff like that. Because of her love for me.. I was able to go to the all black parties where whites were not allowed to go.. and if a person called me any names .. someone would quickly tell them who I came with.
So to compare what I am talking about with racism in the uk.. with your own experience in america is very narrow sighted.
Upon a conversation I had today with an english women. She asked me what is the different between muslims and pakistans? In that aren't all muslims pakistanis.. and cause problems. And I told her exactly what was in my earlier post. Although being typical english.. she was quite offended at the thought that class still exists in britain. Although she did agree that the pakistanis seem for the most part very uneducated with no desire to integrate into the community. She then told me how a "black" (prob. an asylum seeker) had claimed her son called him a racist name. The boy finally admitted that no such name was called and that he had been lieing. It was a good example of how a minority will also use the tolerance of their host country and twist it to their advantage. This does happen.
Last but not least.. just because the shariah council has a good website and has infiltrated the uk goverment and convinced them that they are representative of the muslims in britain.. does not mean they are. Half the muslims have never even heard of the council. The shariah council is a political avenue for status grabbing muslims who are not religious at all to somehow infiltrate the goverment here. And the british goverment is stupid enough to believe that they are held by scholars of Islam.
None of the people on the shariah are scholars, sheikhs or any person who has islamic knowledge. Just because they make this claim .. does not mean it is true in any sense of the word.
their are only 2 scholars who reside in britain. And they are not associated with the shariah council. Also a scholar is not a mufti! A mufti is the only person who has the right to issue islamic law and fatwas. Their are NO muftis in britain.
The qadianis also have their own tv channel.. in which they teach their version of Islam. Yet every major islamic country and mufti have declared these people non muslims.
And as my husband said when I mentioned to him the shariah council.. He said: Who are they? What substance do they have to any claims? Other than being recognized by the uk goverment? Which any organization in britain can apply as a charity and be recognized! Even the qadianis are recognized as muslims in this country.
WOw....That was a lot of posts to read. Ummmm....How to phrase this in a way not to insult everyone....Oh wait, doesn't matter, someone will get insulted anyway.
I know I'm the last person who should say this, because I've gotten in my fair share of arguments on this site, but I've never actually taken the time to read a whole thread as it devolved into bickering and not been a part of the bickering myself, so I'm just going to point out some things I've noticed. Feel free to call me a hypocrit and the lot or whatever afterwards, I have no doubt I've got it coming, but...
GROW UP! All of you!
DO any of you actually take the time to read what the other person says, or to think of what their backround, both educational and cultural is, before you respond to that person, or do you just immediately focus on one word that sounds insulting to you and wage war because of it?
Richard is an educated man, he's living in a Muslim country, therefore of course,the chances of him being Islamophobic or racist are pretty small, so if he starts a thread titled Shariah Law in the UK? Is it good, why do you automatically assume that he's both racist and an Islamophobe. Perhaps, just maybe. HE'S NOT MUSLIM! Therefore he may not be completely aware of what and what is not Shariah Law. SO if an article says that something is Shariah Law, of course he's going to believe it unless told otherwise, and the fact that he posted on this site MEANS he was looking for other opinions about the article. Why do you immediately have to assume that he's insulting people? Why can't you just correct him politely and we can have an intelligent conversation about what is and what is not Shariah Law. But no no, better to assume Richard is a racist Islamophobe with the agenda to destroy Islam.
In regards to Princess Habibah, she calls Brits racist. First of all let's look at her background that she's so kindly informed us of, and then lets look at the general British disposition (which admittedly when not deep into the pints can be very standoffish) and try and understand where she's coming from. Let's also keep an open mind that she may not of used the right word. Racism, like many other words, is a buzz word used right now to describe a range of "ism's" such as classism, eliteism, intellectualism, etc etc. So is it not possible that she was thinking of perhaps classism, but used the word racism. Is it really neccessary to get angry at her? Why not ask her exactly what she meant?
The people on this site HAVE to stop assuming that everyone else thinks the same way they do, or knows the same things they do. ESPECIALLY in regards to religion. To all you Muslims, we infidels don't know everything about your religion, we were not raised in it, many of the do's and don't's are not available on google for us to read, there is no "infidels guide to Islam" I've lived here for 2 years and I've learned a hell of a lot about Islam, but I still had no idea that you couldn't name a teddy bear Mohammed. THis kind of information is not readily availble to us. So sometimes we're going to say or ask stupid stuff cause we simply don't know any better.
Also, we get it that most Arabs/Asians don't get the Western sense of humor, for us it's ingrained and often comes out without us thinking, so the next time we make a stupid sarcastic comment is it not possible to say in your head "Ah, silly white folk and their ridiculous sense of humor, Bless them."
For the Westerners, yes the people on this site are going to insult the West. Not only is it being horribly demonized, but our liberal ways are completely foreign and opposite to the way they've been taught. Instead of immediately jumping to insult, maybe we should try and see things from their point of view.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to stop immediately jumping to insults, or being so thin skinned. We're all from a wide variety of backgrounds and no two of us think the same way, and not one of us has discovered the "perfect way to live" So while I think discussions like these ones are important, and there's no harm in healthy debate, it gets lost when we automatically assume that everyone else on the site has some kind of agenda or is insulting you.
Anyway, not sure if I've made my point, probably said something wrong in there. Have away.
"I am not a pretty girl, that is not what I do, I ain't no damsel in distress and I don't need to be rescued. So put me down punk, I'm not a maiden fair, maybe there's a kitten stuck up a tree somewhere." Ani Difranco
I found the story finally... that is a sad story. It is not uncomon in arranged marriages.
The stories from the UK are especially harsh because the immigrants in the UK are in the crossroads of the East and the West.
The earlier generation who do not want to lose their cultural values and want to fix an arranged marriage for their chldren and the new generation who often do not accept the idea...
I suppose people have to get their priorities straight and decide what they want out of their lives so they can avoid such situations.
Do you have any Idea, How many times I piss off Professor PM and many others in QL? and How many times the founders of QL reprimanded me in private? (Too many...)
I did not type and argument to justify my cause and reasoning. All I did was to apologize and did accepted the pounding that I ask for like a man.
That is the difference between you and me!
Your whatever reply was real infantile from your behalf.
My Confession Booth is available for more of your infantile confessions.
I'm not mad at you, I still love you in Jesus!
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
Of course you never heard about it..it was NEVER reported, the reverse discrimination, because it wasn't wanted known. But believe me, it happened. In fact, if fights broke out between races, no matter which side instigated the fight, nothing was done because it was a "racial" issue. One of my friends almost ended up in the hospital because he wanted into his locker and this other guy wouldn't let him. So the guy leaning against the locker, black fella, just laid into my friend and started smashing his head against the floor. This issue was swept under the carpet by the school board. but that was typical of the times...don't cause waves. I remember the first question that was asked when his parents called the school board, was...what color were the guys? What the heck did that really matter in the long run, as to what would be done?
Oddly enough tho...it didn't make me racist against blacks as I have grown up and been friends with them my entire life, along with just about every other race.
Now WHY the minority would do that?? EAsy to explain...where I grew up, major city in Texas, our high school was old, bad facilities, no air conditioning, etc...they had just opened a new school across town, newest facilities, air conditioning... but with integration starting up, they closed the new school and bussed the black students, ACROSS town, to our school, just to equalize the number of blacks to whites/hispanics. Can you say RESENTMENT??? That was back when tempers were very high with racial issues, black against white, white against black, and violence for no other reason except to cause trouble. yes..from BOTH sides.
You said,"although I would be curious to know why a minority would dare to do such things when the majority in the school were white? That doesn't make sense as surely the whites would get stirred up by this and put the blokes back in their place. " check history...look things up, and see what actually happened, not just what the media wanted you go see. LEARN...not just spout off without knowing the facts. ASK those that lived it..don't blindly believe what is spoon fed to you. Bad happens in all races/religions.
Becoming a skinhead is never good...for anyone, and doesn't solve anything except that some people with all that hatred have something to belong to with people who think(?) alike.
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
Just because Hashin doesn't write like Airsupply/Mrs./ PortA/whoever else...doesn't mean it wasn't/isn't him. He's had others posting for him and AS him many times in the past...He changes personas as easily as people change clothes.
Poet, on the other hand IS Airsupply... writes just like him...same mindset and verbage. Must not have been able to dupe anyone into posting for that persona.
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
Jesse Jackson once said...
Stay out the Bush
I say...
Stay out the Booth...
You can't teach experience...
I settle for that..
Mr. Ashin, Did he just pop a smoke grenade and dissipated? He never did replied back to my formal apologies and condition.
One more think Pm,
Where is your answer to my comment on The basher?
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
The British are coming!
Long live the Queen!
excuse me everyone: Senator Hillary!
If I ever meet you ,I'll be first one to sit on your side and buy you your coffee. What kind do you want?
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
My work here is done
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
You guys are wierd you know that???
You can't teach experience...
Hashin
Okay, my son.
Because of Madam ambassador Prof. PM and her political pressure....
I apologized to you about the comments of India, that I made before in one of my posting.
I hope that helps start a new healing process.
I do ask you in return the same apology, for your Anti-Americans comments.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
seemed funny. Thought maybe you were sticking the boot heel in.
Off to bed now. Have a lot more nettles and weeds to move tomorrow.
LOL
Do I need to watch my back in QL in one of their meetings downtown?
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
Red coats in the open against Green and Blue coats hiding in the woods with Kentucky long rifles?
Come on Pm, you are a not basher, but sometimes, many times a badger!
LOL
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
Is that healing or heeling? ;-)
It's just that Dukhan has sapped my will to live!
It's like being camped out at Roukes Drift, Of course I'm Michael Caine!!
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Sorry just been out kicking a few Indians, sorry.....Joke....
Er I am not a racist, that would mean I dislike people based on RACE.
I think you'll find my prejudices are based on religious grounds.
It's fair to say I am not keen on religious zealots.
I respect ordinary religious belief even if I don't believe it myself.
So would you mind taking that back please. Thank you.
Otherwise I will come round and place a burning cross on your driveway......... Joke......
You can bash me if you want! :)
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
whoops, double post.
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This parrotlike is trying to bounce us against each other with his fairy statements.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
1st page, about half way down.
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If that is so... why is there a jesus fish stuck on the back of your car... why are wearing the golden cross pendant... and why do you have that Holy Mother Screen Saver?
You Satan worshiping evolved human. :)
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Adey... Don't forget to pray before you go to bed tonite... I'm sorry... am off... good night...
I would not be seen anywhere near his booth or your mosque or any other desert death cult ministry.
And Sins refer to god, and as there is no such construct besides in the minds of deluded people (and it's not always their fault), there is nothing to wash.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Since you are there laying down in your couch, My Confession Booth is in the corner waiting for those nut cases you cant handle to visit me. Maybe it will relief their souls from their personal demons or fairy.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
I think its time you went in to the confession booth with Red_Pope... wash your sins and start afresh... everyone deserves a second chance...
I'd like to come in to the confession booth... can I bring my butcher knife along with me?
I am not able to find your story!
How dare you insult me!!!! Thats the most disgusting thing you could have said to me. So I can now rip your religion apart? I wouldn't be difficult. :)
apology now please :)
No more smiles if I don't get an apology.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
My son,
What is it that you are trying to do?
Where is my freedom of speech? or only your conceptual freedom of speech is valid? Explain this to me.
Hashi,
1- Is best to retreat with what ever dignity you have in hand, before you get wounded mentality and severely by THE public opinion since you have demonstrated you can't take no back talk?
2- Is 2400 hours in Doha, Do you need your pacifier to quiet you down?
3- Do you need my Confession Booth for your negativism?
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging, if you can back it up'."
you say you are an atheist an all that... but I think you are an honest deeply devout Christian who like to go to Church every Sunday and enjoys mass....
contrary to what you may think... I don't harbour the kind of ill feeling that you think I do...
So they should all be banned!!!! :) yippee!!!
Oh no! Then the PC police in the UK and the Islamists around the world would call me an Islamophobe and say I have no respect for other peoples religious beliefs. Good god (assuming Zeus is still with us) I've become a Nazi!!!!!! From Pinko-liberal to fascist in one short sentence.!!
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
honestly... didn't read... I had popped out for dinner in between...
Hashin ...Still not had a comment from you yet from an earlier posing?
Did you read my story earlier, about a friend who was duped into an arranged marriage, ufortunately it does happen.
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Believe me when I say I, and allow me to speak for a fellow atheist, mean ALL deity worshiping religions. So no, he was not talking about Islam specifically.
You can leave Islam so in that sense no one can force you what to think but in many parts of the world you would have to have great trust to tell anyone about it. What is the punishment for apostasy in Islamic states?
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Got it, so there is no authority.
At least I know what I'm getting from an Oxbridge/Ivy League degree and know the difference from one originating from Santa's Grotto, North Pole. :)
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Yeah... being a man is what its about is it...
You mean the way that you are deleting your own comments from the other thread... wiping away your tracks?
you've just severely dented your own credibility... that particular comment had your name in its title and you even posted a reply to it... almost as if you condoned it...
RED_POPE said Alexa and Pm ...
Hashin has a fairy story teller that was influence by Castro and Chavez.
Lets forgive him for he is day dreaming, lately. Looking for loopholes and excuses.
But yet his India is so perfect!
I was wondering why there is so many cows and rats in that part of the region and people are being starve, castrated, because of their political casting system.
PM said Now please don't be disrespecting Fidel ...
by putting him in the same company as Chavez and Hashin, Pope! LOL!
;-)
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/69543?page=2
You wanna go to the thread ASAP cos Red_Pope is busy deleting his offensive comments to cover his tracks as we speak...
I think we are all entitled to their opinion, I personally think that you should all agree with me that you should all give up on the religion and embrace atheism, and the fact that this life will end and after that you are dead end of story, there is nothing else and once you figure this out and strip out the superstition you can embrace life more freely , enjoy life and feel liberated from oppression.
Well that me, any one wanna join me, or am I crazy ?
Advisur what makes you think that following religion(and in this threads case Islam which i assume you are referring to)means that we dont embrace life and are oppressed? Many muslims choose to follow Islam, oppression would mean that we dont have a choice in the matter! Theres no compulsion in Islam, you either choose to be one or not.
To answer you question i choose the latter, you are crazy...and thats not because your an athesist.....
" I CAN say with a degree of certainty...." sounds like YOUR comment to me!! Use quotation marks if its not you and references where possible.
To me it sounds if you are digging yourself out of a hole of your own making. :)
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
whatever...
I am Sunni as are most muslims in Qatar...
I've heard a lot of Sunni scholars condemning the practise of telephone marriages
I've been looking around on the web and I am finding it very hard to find websites which support the concept, most of them are against it
Your Confessions (remarks) are under extreme duress, self denial and cornering.
When others convey their opinion, Is called public opinion and is hell to live with it, apparently you don't agree with it.
Poor fairy( Hashi) is on fire from all that heat and flak he is catching. That is my joke to you!
Do you ever yield yourself from commenting about your perfectionist world? Basically your writing is always on the defensive, looking to justify your reasoning as a correct pathway.
But yet, you are not willing to accept criticism or any kind of input. You are always adding your counter words, always on the mix with your ideologies and interpretation.
I feel pity for anyone that has to put up with your parroting in your household.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
But as Muhammad Ali once said, 'It's not bragging if you can back it up'."
but I don't think it works in this case
eg. Governments have a mandated authority whether you agree with them or not, where does authority come from in Islamic jurisprudence?
Answer: from the Qu'ran and Hadith but Islamic scholars/judges still interpret them, a lay man could not do it.
The Organizations listed in the list from which the Shariah Court of Britain is made up are the foremost scholarly mainstream Muslim centres in the UK.
Therefore if they do not have any worth then no one has, and all such councils around the land should pack up shop and not bother.
Hope my thought process is clear.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
I would wait until the verdict is out before I pass a judgement...
I was just going to say... that was not MY comment... just something I found floating on the web... that is why I gave it the subject 'another spin'... I do not condone it in any way...
How come you did not speak out against the comment when it was originally said?
Here you go again! you're such a hypocrite! you're blood boils as soon as someone says anything, god forbid, about the UK but when it comes to Qatar, Islam and Arabs you're on a roll. There are racists everywhere, yes even in Qatar (shocking!) and you are no exception...you're just as racist...can you at least try to not make it look so obvious?
did you read my story earlier, about a friend who was duped into an arranged marriage, ufortunately it does happen.
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As you say the full story will come out when it comes to court, therefore you are treading on very morally dangerous ground if you turn this around and make it the girls fault (as she is the complainant) before the case is heard.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
I Can say with a degree of certainty that this story is not what it seems.
the lady in question does not wish to stay with her husband so to make it look good and make sure she gets permanent stay in the country,these stories are weaved.
people coming from pakistan do not give a hoot as to who they are being married to as long as they get into britian and get permanent stay.
this is not just a female matter but the same with males,they come into the country and once they get permanent stay then their real face shows.
there are plenty of agencies out there to give advice on what tpo say and how to say to make sure you get what you want as the system is designed in a way to make sure the men is always at fault.
if you were to hear the excuses these type of immigrants come up you wil be shocked
I found floating on the net from people in the UK... gives another perspective of things...
I must say when I read the article before reaching the paragraph of mpac's comment, I was thinking exactly the same thing. It happens nobody will deny that but it is OBVIOUSLY a CULTURAL issue and not an Islamic one AT ALL. Islam gives women full rights in determining who their marriage partner will be. She is allowed to refuse to marry someone no matter WHAT the reason. She is allowed to refuse ALL suitors if she so wishes to remain single her whole life. This story highlights an ignorant cultural issue. Also the Sharia courts demand a million and one things before approving a marriage and if it didnt then the marriage is not valid and it was not conducted according to the Sharia law. I have just been married recently and faced months of delay because so much paperwork had to be verified. Its not easy to just get married like that. Where was the bride's father or brothers? Its not enough to give consent over the phone they need to be accompanying her or otherwise giving power of attorney which has been attested at the appropriate embassies and ministries along with passport copies to verify signatures etc and the girl if at any time when asked by the cleric conducting the ceremony has the option of refusing...why on earth did she go ahead to marry a retarded 40 yr old if she was aware she had been scammed anyway?? This story is too flawed in many aspects and personally I have trouble believing it. If it was true in any part, there have been grave errors made out of stupidity and ignorance on part of all parties involved. I think along with a cultural issue this is a story about how the girls parents possibly sold her out of poverty (a SOCIAL issue) and out of dreams and hopes of her acquiring British nationality and eventually possibly having a better future. Naive or utterly stupid indeed.
With you all the way brother, Its a much more peaceful, enlightening, fascinating, beautiful and sane world when one has escaped from this affliction.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
I'm getting confused now, are you saying you believe they knowingly approved of a forced marriage?
All the mosques cited represent most of the influential muslim scholars in the UK.
If they don't know what Shariah is in the UK then no one does.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Just because some of the regulars disagree with a newer member that automatically makes them Airsupply? besides, we all know his writing style and it's not the same as Princess Habibah's. I think she makes some valid points, some not...
And Muslims are not racist, or that the Qataris threat ANYONE who isn't Qatari as an equal.
If this was a site in Arabic, how many people today would be praising the bombing in Israel today, isn't that racism. I just watched a day of people refuse to condemn the bombing saying it is Israel's fault and they deserve it. Are those people not racist.
I think from skimming through the posts here, it seems the consensus is, Everyone in the west considers all Muslims fanatics and have no clue about the religion.
We Westerners are ignorant racists.
We don't have a clue about therefore we should shut up.
And those that don't fall into that category, well they are correct, never do any wrong and have them all wrong.
OK fair enough, but I think that the liberal, white elite on this site get annoyed by a seeming superior attitude by those who do have some faith, and those with faith seen to be unable to accept there are serious problems with some aspects of their religion, and don't take this criticism very well.
I think we are all entitled to their opinion, I personally think that you should all agree with me that you should all give up on the religion and embrace atheism, and the fact that this life will end and after that you are dead end of story, there is nothing else and once you figure this out and strip out the superstition you can embrace life more freely , enjoy life and feel liberated from oppression.
Well that me, any one wanna join me, or am I crazy ?
The In laws of the girl obviously duped the girl and her parents into the marriage and could have easily duped the Shariah Council of Britain, and as such I dont think the Council would have ratified the marriage if it had known the facts (at least I hope not).
But why where you disingenuous about the status of the council and its Muslim mainstream authority?
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
if you dislike and feel so threatened in the UK. Why are you still living there?
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I had a look at their website and it seems a much more authoritative body than PH suggests, but maybe she can shed more light on why these main stream Muslim bodies do not represent the Muslims in the UK?
They seem to say they are not just a place where people get married.
Website is at http://www.islamic-sharia.org/index.php
"The Islamic Shari'a Council is an authoritative body, consisting of a panel of scholars, representing many established institutions in the UK, including:"
1. London Central Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre, London.
2. Muslim World League
3. Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith, UK
4. UK Islamic Mission
5. D'awatul Islam, UK
6. Jamia Mosque & Islamic Centre, Birmingham
7. Islamic Centre, Glasgow
8. Islamic Centre, Didsbury, Manchester
9. Jamia Masjid Hanafiya, Bradford
10. Muslim Welfare House, London
"The scholars representing these centres represent all major schools of thought among the Sunnis. The Council is also widely accepted by the UK Muslim community and this is shown by the sheer volume of enquiries related to marital problems which it receives from the general UK public: additionally, a significant number of solicitors who were able only to secure civil divorces for their clients have found recourse with the Council regarding also securing Islamic divorces for their respective clients. "
"Historically, Muslim organisations have urged the legislative authorities in the UK, to factor the Islamic viewpoint into all aspects of the legislative process, not least in the field of family law: the response to this call has been surprising indeed. The answer has been clear and unequivocal: one country - one law. Given that what was traditionally known as, 'the Christian perspective' in the UK has been essentially annexed from all legal and legislative processes, it almost seems inappropriate to expect that the perspective of yet another religion - Islam - be factored into the discussion."
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Thanks for the clarification
And the fact that it was approved by the shariah council.. has nothing to do with the crime.
cuz the parents could have lied through their teeth as it happened. Their are many ways to get through loopholes in any system!
that PH is a startling revelation! if it is true...
the shariah council is not shariah practiced in britain..
Nor is it representative of the muslims in britain.
Its just a place, much like a qadiani mosque where people get married which is not valid in Islam becaue qadiani are considered non-muslims by every islamic sect in the world today.
as you said before PM it is a case of a horrendous crime.. by individuals!
Actually, I was not referring to any of your comments at all, you are one of the people here who makes meaningful comments and I really respect that... when I told you that I have been here for 29 years, I got reminded of someone elses comment insulting the Qatari nationals... which too is a favoured passtime...
I totally agree with you on ...
the 'piss headed locals'(again a 1000+ member NOT dweller and the comment went unnoticed)... or was that a joke too?
MAYBE some Qatari's are taking the higher road... while some others(not qatari, i am glad i threw that disclaimer in there) are simply kissing a$c...
Ok... lets start bashing something else...
Lebonese are not the most beautiful ppl on earth, Airsupply sucks, pick a fight with darude/JBH, mystica sucks, lot to pick from... other than islam and asians...
If you are referring to my comment about PH, no it wasn't a joke.
I think she may be in for a rude awakening when she arrives in Doha. Her "attitude" I think will have to change. That's if she isn't already in Doha.
We were in Doha at the same time so maybe we met.
And I am already out of Doha although I do keep being asked to go back and was back in 2003 and 2004 with DAGOC.
Could also be back soon for 3 or 4 months. We'll have to meet up for a coffee if I do come back.
For your kind information i havent started using bad language YET.
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I didnt even read it.... coz it didnt even deserve to be read...
You cant change the hearts and minds of people over an internet forum, there is atleast some bad in all of us.
Same for this thread but i read it coz Richard authored it and i am posting here not abt the thread but about how you feel everything is so wrong at QL...
Mr.Paul has no right to insult someone else's religious beliefs but i am sure some people here that are not not muslim and contributing to the progress of qatar with honest hearts will take offence to your statement...
"Go ahead and make fun of the Muslim Holy Book and frolic even while you live off a Muslim land..."
Why are you surprised? I've been in Qatar for 29 years... and insha'allah I'll be here after you leave as well... aah yes... thanks for reminding me about the remarks about the locals... what was it... yes of course... the 'piss headed locals'(again a 1000+ member NOT dweller and the comment went unnoticed)... or was that a joke too?
Certainly not my intention.... Anyway, im out of here, you live in your world and i will live in mine.
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I've been here long enough to understand people...
btw... tonymontana... wouldn't you like to read the "aren't you ashamed to be Indian thread"?
or how about the thread about "Indians and Africans breeding out of control"... take your pick....
Go ahead and make fun of the Muslim Holy Book and frolic even while you live off a Muslim land...
But you asked me when you erred on the two counts... and I have given them both... your silence would be graciously appreciated
How do you know Darude is not actually a nice person, he simply blindly stands up to his friends, whats so wrong with that? (atleast kids in his neighborhood dont have to wear metallic underwears with padlocks on them (this is a joke so dont jump on me anyone)
Remember one thing, my english may not be as eloquent as yours but let me put this as simply as this - no one remembers hate but everyone remembers love... hmm thats didnt come out that good, but u get the idea...
Thats why no one said anything i guess !
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how racists is that! How rude is that!
that is what I'm talking about with some of these comments! At least when I write its not based on opinion.. but works by known authors and experts in their particular fields.
and recanting my own personal experience.
But to make that kind of comment.. makes me want to take out my bats and show you how I hit home runs.
oh and BTW whats your definition of Martyr?
how convenient that when one side sez it, its jokes and when the other side sez it, its murder?
in heaven for so called martyrs ??? Maybe im wrong, who knows !
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I was referring to your... "You should all be ashamed to be Indians" Thread
Granted... you did apologize for it
and about islam... need i remind you of your comment about lying about virgins and martyrs comment?
well I'm not biased in the least about the british.. or anything else
like I said I am quite openminded towards the british.. and have a deeper understanding about why? they do the things they do..
I think some of you should pick up the book "The hidden rules of english behavior by Kate Fox"
and I gave a link.. and said.. you need to read up on it.. racism in the uk.. LIke a few others have said..
racism is apparant not only with the whites..
My purpose here was to show why the muslims have become resentful while living in britain.
btw I haven't only lived in the north east since being here. We have a house in london.. I have lived in essex hertfordshire and chelmsford. My best friend lives in cheltenham and I frequently travel to the devon country side.
And if one was to frequent very british sites such as www.housepricecrash.co.uk then you may see how much racism truly exists in britain.
pm I agree with you in that it is a fault of the ignorant muslims. Like I said.. the british can justify their feelings to an extent.
furthermore for statistics.. I will call and when I get ahold.. I will post the proof for what I have said. However, I would urge everybody to read up on what others have said. Not just myself. There is a class problem in britain.. and that is not just against the muslims.
that doesn't mean it hasn't affected the muslims. And I was just hoping to give all your ignorant and naive folks some insight into your current problem with muslims in britain. No finger pointing and I'm better than you was involved at all!
things don't just happen out of thin air for NO reason. Now do they?
Oh, OK Adey, thanks for the explanation...I've only got half an eye on this thread and haven't read it properly.
I thought it was a curious English expression that I hadn't heard :/
Will read through from the beginning tomorrow...gotta go out now.
Goodnight all.
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Love is the answer...
And i have admited here that the UK isnt perfect, no country is perfect !!!
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Would you like me to serve some juicy delicacies served by Darude... which went... conveniently unnoticed?
If we met this person in person... i doubt that he/she would say the same thing. There is no end to what can be said on an internet forum.
I like to maintain the feeling that I am here on QL in person and If someone said something so stupid to me in person i would ignore once, try to change the topic the second time, and third ... I would just leave.... I am not trying to change ppl esp. the ignorant ones.
Yes, i am Indian but i am not a blind supporter of everything Indian.
I am sorry to say this, but am genuinely surprised how you survive in Qatar.
PH will have to "modify" her attitude too I think when she gets to Qatar, unless she is indeed already there.
"Freedom of expression" - the 'freedom' has to be respected not the 'expression'.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
I have to pick my battles...
Started mentioning skinheads when she couldn't back up her claim that 65% of Britons are racists.
It's like me bringing up Al Queda to scare people off Islam when I have no evidence to back up my point. Scare tactics really.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
And who is Indian ?? im not following you...
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MrPaul I don't give two hoots whether the statistic is true or false and I am not surprised if it is true for a people who statistically prefer chicken tikka masala to sex with their women....
the point is... far worse things have been said... even by yourself about Islam... and the subcontinent... and yet no one objects...
But if a muslim or an Indian voices discontent and immediately you are riled as the touchy man who can't just laugh it off and can't respect the freedom of expression...
why is it that all the people with four digits points are always on the same side of an argument... its just bullying... plain and simple... you read only the posts... you can rest assured that there are PMs flying to and fro at frantic pace... its a coordinated act... I believe you are Indian... tell me how you find this comment by one of the prominent 'lobby' members
"But yet his India is so perfect!
I was wondering why there is so many cows and rats in that part of the region and people are being starve, castrated, because of their political casting system."
and alas... not one voice is raised against it...
A comment was made about 65% of Brits are Racist which is simply not true. Yes there are some narrow minded idiots about like in ANY country, but it is not as widespread as has been posted here !!
The UK is probably the most tolerant country in the world (maybe after USA ??)
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Adey, curious, what does that mean 'let's put in the boggy men like skinheads'?
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Love is the answer...
take it easy... i dont see anything wrong with QL, I dont agree with 99% of Qler's but still have some friends here. I dont take offence at anything the "high points" qler's say or do, coz this site belongs to everyone living here in qatar... not just the ones with 4 digit points.
But I am feel sorry for the sane people here, like Richard, who stoop down to some nutcases(not u hashin) level and start to change their view of the majority of lets say(muslims)
and I feel sorry for ppl like u who take offence to ignorant bashers...
Hashin, Richard... dont let an internet forum get to you.... Anonymity sometimes makes ppl say more than they would in peron.
Flexibility is the name of the game my friend, debate with passion or move on to threads that are entilted "Ah dont these kittens look cute"
And hey, Im an equal opportunities ALL religion Buster!~! :)
You can critize the UK all you like with real cases and figures that aren't made up, I'm not stopping you.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
dp
PH is a stooge or just a trouble maker, or both. You cant find the source you quoted coz you made it up, or it's hearsay and you somehow cant find it. You will have to ring the wife of a Lord, who is a personal friend (but you dont know his name).
Lets put in the boggy men like skinheads.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
People the double standards on this site are amazing. I see the same bunch of people, one social group who pretty much gang up on anyone who holds an opinion even slightly different and drives them away... Its a liberal anti-islamic christian lobby with their happy puppets and puppies!
Everyone wants freedom of speech to mock and misinterpret the religion of Islam or people from the subcontinent... yet if anyone questions Santa Claus or British attitude and its sacrilege!
You people are strangling QatarLiving, but not for long, there are many many unbiased, intelligent and open minded people who will inevitably rid QL of this nexus menace.
Hashin is really airsupply :P
1st point , no one said racism does not exist in the UK, it's in every country - YOU said 65% of Btitons are racist, you are WRONG with no source to back you up.
2nd point, you cant be racist against a religion. It's not a race but an ideology.
3rd point, Your use of the word 'brownies'!? very odd, but I'll take that as a facet of your ignorance about racial issues/politics.
4th point, The North East is in no way typical of the rest of the UK, it is in fact very atypical of the racial mix in the UK.
5th point, Its rather patronizing to suggest that we need, and don't already have, education on these matters. I think all of us, from all stand points, have knowledge, experience and interest in the matter.
And finally I think some of your perceived racist/reserved/classist views of the English are some clash/misunderstanding of culture between the US and UK.
Give it time, the UK is nothing like what you perceive it to be in the US, not worse or better just different.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Keep your Ideologies upto yourself no one here is interested in them at all. if any one is interested in you, then you sure may share it with them.
They from UK or from States which is their homeland knows alot more better than YOU what's what and who's who.
SAVE YOUR METHODOLOGY IN YOUR DIARY FOR YOUR OWN SELF YOU WILL NEED THEM IN FUTURE.
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that..
although I would be curious to know why a minority would dare to do such things when the majority in the school were white? That doesn't make sense as surely the whites would get stirred up by this and put the blokes back in their place.
now where I grew up in california.. as a white girl I experienced problems because I was a white honky in a predominately black/mexican/chinese school. But then I was the minority so had no choice.
Many of my friends who were white became serious racists (skinheads) as a result.
keep following the links.. and learn about racism in the uk..
it will open your eyes to more evidence to support my claim if you bother to educate yourself.
the statistic I gave was from a Lord who converted to islam and is a personal friend and speaks on the Islam channel. I would need to call his wife and ask where he got the statistic from. However it was quoted in front of mp members and the mayor... and school adminastrators during a conference we gave to help improve relations between the english and muslims.
He also used the same evidence I have sited above concerning why the british have become bitter during their stay here in britain.
Ph, you want to talk racism...well I lived it back when they were intergrating the schools and every where else. yes, there was racism but it came from BOTH sides, white AND black..I'm causcasian...I can remember being scared to walk down the hallways in certain parts of the school, and it was mostly a white school. We were jeered at, grabbed(in our private places), called horrible names, fight broke out constantly...so its nothing new. Perhaps its new to you though. Ever think that perhaps its not just one side that is causing the problem?? Its like you said many times...check your own backyard before looking over someone else's fence stirring up trouble.
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
from my short time here.. I have felt that the ignorance about Islam is amazing.
for people to thin the initial post had anything to do with Islam.. is what really gets to me..
and then you guys have the nerve to comment.. and honestly become racist yourself based on poor media coverage.
Their is alot of ignorance about society and the way they work. And I am surprised at how many people are english and say their is NO RACISM in england.. when whites are racist against other whites from different backgrounds. Let alone the brownies
To me.. the comments I have heard and seen regarding domestic violence, terrorism and Islam have all been pro western and one sided. And this is coming from people who come onto a qatar living website.
I have been part of housepricecrash forum here in the uk. and the amount of bigots on there is amazing. half of them being open bnp members and the other half not knowing much about islam at all.
I can see why the muslims (arab, indian) take serious offense to some of the comments raised on this site. And I have only been here for 4 days.
I thought I was being rather polite explaining people the social issues behind why muslims are not happy in britain. I didn't speak from my own opinions as these same finding have been posted on bbc television programmes and voiced by many british muslims themselves.
I did however give you an account of my own personal experience here in britain with racism. One I am sure is just not a stereotypical northern problem!
I care about the truth.. and saying the truth and fact. If that means I don't have many friends at the end of the day.. Then so be it! I am who I am says popeye the sailor man! At least I can go to sleep at night knowing I tried my best to improve the ignorance rampant amongst both the muslims and non muslims on certain situations.
and I really reccommend that if people are concerned with issues that they should start reading books on the subjects and gaining as much first hand experience as possible so they can deduce their own opinions.
Hashi
Suddenly you became a subject expert on Mexicans law, Could you provide the public more legal links to validate your claim? We don't need news articles.
I sincerely challenge your statement.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I have seen a twelve toe stripper, I have seen one breasted stripper, I have seen a brainless stripper, but never in my life a one legged stripper! Quentin tarantino-Planet Terror--
On an earlier post you say "It is the english goverments fault for allowing immigration and not listening to its own people and their voices. So much for democracy!"
It's the British government, not English. Please get your facts correct.
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Your link is about the number a racist incidents by school children that occurred on school premises. .
Read it twice and it did not mention your figure of 65%, any other % either and was on a totally different topic.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
ah that link really sucks now.
you tell me whats ur origin and then i am here to show you ur entity.
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kiss your mom with a mouth like that...wise up and be polite at least. You come on here ranting and raving and throwing stones of your own...Like Da said..you do so remind a lot of us of other less desirable people from the past. You may not be here to make friends, but stop going all out to make enemies...because if that's what your goal is, you are certainly accomplishing it very quickly.
Now if people are speaking other languages and you act like that in public, most likely the ARE talking about you, certainly your behavior.
You never mentioned where you got your statistics of the 65% racist...I'm curious because I'd like to read that study at length.
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/education/revealed+racism+in+schools/529297
"And it is a well known fact that the british tend to even form their own little cliques in the country they move to.. "
My Canadian friend once told me he was invited to a British party... someone there hinted he should consider himself lucky that he can rub shoulders with them...
he never went for one of those party's ever again...
If a white Canadian gets the cold shoulder... what me poor Indian only!
The North East!!
Hardly the most cosmopolitan area of the country. No wonder. Move further south darlin!
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
'The fact still remains that 65% of english........would not even be friends with a non english/white person.'
Outrageous statement to make, what's your source for this? There are some right intolerant idiots in the UK but as a whole it's one of the most liberal and tolerant countries in Europe, if not the world.
I say that without bias, there are many things wrong with the UK but racism ain't one of them.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Airsupply, Mrs., PortAlfred.
asumptions only and hatred and got nothing to prove. just to make her/his point thats all.
and what will happen to PH then you know the users above then where they are :)
so Prince Habibah you better calm down and hold your horses and pretty much stick to topic.
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thats bs..
what do you classify racism as? when 65% of brits would not befriend a person of a different colour and race then I classify that as racist.
Like I said.. you people don't have to live in a country where I am threatened daily..
and as an american I came over here thinking the british were oh so clever just like they show on tv. I was very dissappointed. Like I said.. if I had known how it was over here and the abuse (stones thrown at me, shouting and one time hitting my child while walking down the road quietly) then I would have never come.
Of course the north east could be alot worse then other areas. But that is my experience as a white muslim american with no hidden intentions or hatred to start with.
Just cuz you can't take the truth isn't my fault. Like I said.. times are better than they used to be. Where my husband grew up in east london one can barely hear english being spoken these days. Yet when he was a kid he didn't walk home, HE RAN!
And I have been known to do that here in the north east! So piss off.
I don't see why and what we're still arguing about. We all know that those people don't represent Islam, they are simply ignorant, backward people using Islam as a shield to hide behind. Unfortunately, many non-muslims would think that that's the way Islam is, and I wouldn't blame them for thinking so. It's a sad state for both Muslims and British people. Like I said, it only takes a handful of idiots to ruin everything for everyone.
So why are we still arguing ? :S
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
"Whether a few people learned to "get on" with the muslims is irrelevant. I didn't sway the whole nation was racist."
No you said 65% of the Nation was racist. Utter rubbish. Keep your short lived, biased, anti British comments behind Speaking out is one thing, but just because you coat your comments in the occasional compliment, doesnt mean your true intention does not shine through. Your'e simply pouring sugar coating "s**t"
H
they were taken from a book by the comedian george mikes
quite a funny book .. recommended by an english friend
you mean you are talking on behalf of all the muslim nations here???
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the comments I made about the english social class system is from a very famed social scientist named Kate Fox from her book Watching the english.
she is herself English.
I never claimed to be upper middle class. I said that the english do not know what to classify me in.. Thank you very much. Because their is a suble social class system in britain. Whether they like to admit it or not.
Outsiders to britain more often then not view the english as a very unfriendly people. Now that I have gotton to know them I realize that they are not unfriendly.. just very reserved and difficult to approach until one learns the manners in going about it.
However, as a stereotype from outsiders looking in.. it is classed as an unfriendly and reserved nation (taken from Kate Fox) because of the politeness that turns into a social disability.
Whether a few people learned to "get on" with the muslims is irrelevant. I didn't sway the whole nation was racist. What you call diversity is completely different to me.. As I grew up in a city with only 23% whites/non hispanic in the state of california. My parents are of european and middle eastern cultures.
And it is a well known fact that the british tend to even form their own little cliques in the country they move to.. and a common complaint that they do not even try to integrate in the culture. That has been at least the topic in many media sources.
ooh.. and to just clarify one thing.. I am currely trying to learn about the english.. and it is taking time. My husband is completely english in every way.. manners wise.. and although I may not understand him or the rest of you guys.. doesn't mean I hate ya.
It also doesn't mean I'm going to kiss your arse and pull wool over my eyes about the current climate in the uk for all immigrants. Just because a few of you seem to have more open minds then the rest.
At least I am speaking out! a common complaint against muslims is that they don't speak out enough.
well there ya go.. I spoke.
Now that's not a nice comment is it.
You should go down very well in Qatar............not!
1)To be married legally in Mexico you must have a civil wedding officiated by a recognised government officer.
2)To be religiously married - it is the venue of your choice.
You cannot do 2 only. You can do 1 only.
If the wedding does not meet criteria 1 it is not legal.
is it me.. or when people speak another language.. why do I always feel their talking about me.. lol
yeah whatever you said DaRude!
Continental people have sex.. the english have hot water bottles.
When the english work (or are in zig) they rest (zag); when they rest (zag), they work hard (zig).
"The fact still remains that 65% of english would not marry or even be friends with a non english/white person."
Where did you that statistic from? Absolute rubbish. Unless you have actually spoken to the whole population of the UK in person, which I doubt because your "Upper Middle class" life has given you a huge chip on you shoulder. Ive re read your post several times now and it is littered with racist remarks towards your host country
"If you are not from the uk then you should hear first hand what a racist and unfriendly society it is here."
Heres a first hand account......its not as bad as you are making out.
"Lets call it the english social disability that meeting or leaving a very dry english conversation inevitably carries with it a degree of discomfort. As a result the best places to meet the english are in pubs (where a different set of rules exist), at parties (where alcohol is almost always involved), and through friends."
Nice stereotyping.
"Since I am clearly not "working class" (hate that word), well spoken, good manners, kids go to a "white" private school yet incredibly simple and humble in terms of housing, car, clothes and personality."
LOL... Im professional, well spoken, well mannered, kids in a private school, but I am most definately working class and extremely proud of it. Maybe you should try speaking to my friends and I, ( you know the working class) who grew up together in a very multicultural school, in the same city this whole story started and remain friends til this day.
"We are not invited to some of the parties because of racism and very few of my neighbors have bothered to be friendly."
Heres some classic English sarcasim for you. Its not your religion or colour that's preventing the invites coming is it. Whats with all the "upper middle class" quotes. Here lies the problem. What has class got to do with ths whole topic.
If its that bad, go home, but then we both know its not really that bad dont we!
pfffft... ;-)
This is not a religious issue, rather a social issue. The fact that the parents of a mentally handicapped person would want to dupe a person in marrying their son with the intention of forcing her in to prostitution... just a sad story of human betrayal...
They just always have to be right. Can't anyone just make them shut up.
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
mar khani hai kia :?
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someone throw over a witty english remark.
I get soooooooo serious sometimes.. anyone got a punching bag..
Girls against boys
its funny how if something is obviously not true and someone says no that's not true someone replies 'you think you're right?! You're lieing!'
Let's have an example
Man: I heard that Christians have to kill virgins
Man 2: No that's not true at all! I'm a priest!
Man: Don't lie! You think you're always right!
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time.. and I don't see any reference that this is part of "shariah law". Only in the title of the article which qoutes shariah (islamic).
all I read is that it was a case in which a girl was married in a valid islamic ceremony over the telephone. It appears that the girl actually came from pakistan and upon arriving in the uk realized her plight.
law in pakistan is often called Islamic shariah. Just as law is called islamic in saudi, qatar and dubai. Shariah is an arabic term for law which is based on a moral code..in these countries case it is islam. That does not mean that the laws of these countries are all purely islamic or meant to be completely islamic. Islam is just the frame in which many of the laws are built around.
And when muslims call for shariah law.. they are actually calling for the true islamically correct shariah law.. and not what ones sees based in islamic countries.
let the kids play lets go find some other topic to mess with :D
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no voilence,,,
"Get out of here" is an American expression that just means "get real". No offense was meant and none was taken.
Princess habibah, I know you are American. You have said it in your threads. I am also American but I don't think America is the greatest place on the planet. As far as my previous comment is concerned, that was exasperated irony. It is not meant to be taken literally.
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
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You dont yell at any one and tell them to get out of this site.
stick to the topic always.
and this topic is by richard and he is allowed to say anything.
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get out of here richard..
I never said anything of the sort about america being evil and the muslims always being perfect.. I'm american you bafoon and proud of it! Thank you very much. In fact I think its the best country on the planet and americans are gods gift to the world. Yet still I agree that No one is an angel on this earth!
I am saying that the media reports are biased because they know very little about the pakistani/muslim cultures. Like I said the articles are vague and do not cover all of the facts.
this is common in anything the media reports.
They want to make a story.. and they know how to do that well.
a telephone marriage is okay in Islam.. but only in the west.
because if it was the goverment then a goverment official would have the women sign the contract and make sure she was okay with the marriage.
whereas in the west muslims must rely on trusting the imam or clergy to make sure the girl is okay with the marriage.
as the girl saw the mans picture and agreed and only after found out about his disability. My guess and its a big guess.. Is that the parents did not realize the mans faults either.
in pakistani culture alot of trust is formed especially through relatives. If the girl did not know the man or hear about him through family members then I am sure her parents were equally ignorant about the situation.
but of course
that is a guess.. the parents could have been just screwed up people.. who abused the shariah council.. (which does not equal shariah law in the slightest)
I do not believe everything I read in the press, far from it and I am not naive to believe that the American or British legal systems are always honorable, correct or fair.
However, how do you know that this article in The Times is biased? Is it biased because it mentions Sharia law in a negative light? As far as the Sharia part is concerned, you can read the article yourself, it is at the top of this page or in todays Times. It mentions both Sharia law and Sharia council.
Yes we all know that America is the great evil, that muslims did not take part in 9/11. We all know that all white people are racist, godless and money grubbing. We all know that 9/11 was a US government conspiracy. God knows, on the pages of this website you can find all of the above.
In future, I will just have to bow to the superior knowledge of you and Hashin. I no longer need to think for myself. You can do it for me.
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
with what i wrote.Its a sad fact that Racism is on the increase, But everyone here would get Fed up if they saw their cultures and values eaten away by immigrants. Look at this region, with all their plans to limit the time expats can work in each country, 6 yrs was a figure quoted here.
We all have pride in our Countries, and we hate to see change. Unfortunately, the UK has gone past the point of no return.
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It happens everywhere ....The UK today has become a hub for Romanian S** Slaves ......It happens in dubai...but what is interesting here is that here Islam a religion considered as revered or as forced by the Imams, today can come down to such a deteriorating issue..... When they pinpoint faults in the way others carry around with their lives.....
shariah law.. or was it recognized by a shariah council.. two different things!
secondly the shariah council is not an organised goverment system.. and what hashin said about loopholes in any system makes sense. All americans should feel me on loopholes in gov. systems. As I pointed out.. I am sure if one were to ask the shariah council why this happened they could give a good explanation and say it was completely against "their" beliefs and what is generally known in islam!
thirdly, I cannot base the inns and outs on a biased and uneducated news report that failed to ask the right kind of questions and look deeper into the situation. All we have is a very vague statement without all the facts laid bare for everyone to see. A common problem with the media I might add.
As for the above poster who felt offended that I mentioned racism in britain.. You are more than correct in stating that racism exists to a far greater degree in many other countries, including pakistan, the gulf, europe and everywhere in the world. A class system is not unique to the english.. and the english are voted as one of the most polite cultures in the world.
Of course their are tons of reasons why the english have become racist these days.. some of the justified! The fact still remains that 65% of english would not marry or even be friends with a non english/white person. 73% against immigration whether from pakistani bringing spouses over to the polish that have invaded hospitals.
It is the english goverments fault for allowing immigration and not listening to its own people and their voices. So much for democracy!
Mexican law allows double proxy marriages... phone, internet, mail... what difference does it make? this family could have duped that young girl in to a marriage in many number of ways... that it was Shariah is only incidental...
Peace... okay... people around the world find legal loop holes... I agree that the Sharia may not be perfect in its current form, but neither is any other legal system in the world today.
It's not a personal attack..Just like it wasn't a personal attack when you "hijacked" my Heath Ledger thread..no not personal at all...Oh and whats this about PM's? so what happened when I used to PM you half a dozen times and get no response? maybe you're still typing them? lol...anyhoo, this was fun...see u guys later :)
not allow telephone marriage ceremonies and what about responding to my other points?
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
Mexican law only requires that the girl needs to be at least 14 years of age as long as there is parental consent. I am guessing that this particular girl had her parents consent... check mate...
even you may be right occassionally. But not this time. Lets engage brain and try again.
The first wedding:
A GIRL of 15 was tricked into a "telephone marriage" ceremony to a Sheffield man with a mental age of five in a ceremony recognised by sharia (Islamic law).
Tha above wedding would not have been recognized in any state of the USA or the UK or Mexico. My point despite what you have all said is that this was allegedly recognized by Sharia law. The article says it was. You, Princess Habibah, nadt, abuamerican and manyana... all told meu before that this article had nothing to do with shariah law.
But this is exactly the point, according to the article it had everything to do with Islamic law. Now it could be that the article is wrong, I accept that or it could be that this partuclar Sharia board acted wrongly, I don't know. However, it had everything to do with Sharia law.
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
any of you who are trying to get married in absentia or double absentia... it was my pleasure to give you legal advise ;-)
Richard, you still don't get it do you?
The first marriage was a single proxy marriage which is legal in many countries around the world including many states in the USA. It was only incidental that this particular single proxy marriage was recognized by the Shariah... the same marriage coulf have been a double proxy marriage recognized by the Government of Mexico and then legalized by the UK Foreign Office. If that had happened... would you have named the thread, "Recognizing the Mexican Government in the UK, is it a good idea?"
Anyway... Princess Habibah, nadt, abuamerican and manyana... all posted before I did that this article had nothing to do with shariah law. But you singled me out to vent your frustration... I wonder why...
Is it bcos you consider me as one of the "people on this site that would have us believe that everything about Islam is perfect and that everything about the west sucks."
let me enlighten you with my opinion on the topic... this was my comment a few days back... "we need to meet somewhere in between. And for that to happen, we need to realize that we are all unique... Muslims don't look at the world that the West does and vice versa. Therefore, any attempt to judge the other with one's own value system will always fail miserably."
Always remember if in doubt the Muslims are always right and we as guests in a Muslim Country should remember our lowly place and never criticize or speak out against them. Even if said practices go against what we would consider moral, normal, decent or humane etc.
It upsets me to see the Muslim ways being criticized, after all who could not agree with a set of laws that condone stoning 16 year old girls, or stabbing young girls and burying them in suitcases in your brothers garden. Can we not all agree that such laws must be in place to make sure girls behave ? Whats wrong with that.
Come on people, Racism in England no way, compared to the way Jewish, Indian, Pakistani, Nepali, Filipino, and British people are treated here you must be joking.
Qatar is an inclusive society. Don't you people read the press releases.
@red_pope I don't know what you're saying.
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In response to this personal attack:
'what are you still doing in Qatar? wouldn't you be a lot happier back where you came from? you wont have to be so unhappy about ppl reporting pregnant women out of wedlock anymore!'
FYI I have no problem with Sharia law - I just think people should also mind their own business and let consenting adults get on with their lives and sort things out.
If you have an issue about my residency in Qatar then please PM me.
Lets not hijack the thread.
Sra
Por Favor no se altere los nervios por pendejadas..
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I have seen a twelve toe stripper, I have seen one breasted stripper, I have seen a brainless stripper, but never in my life a one legged stripper! Quentin tarantino-Planet Terror--
I thought Qatar was English in this forum?
or should I said American, since the author is a gringo friend of mines...
J/K LOL
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I have seen a twelve toe stripper, I have seen one breasted stripper, I have seen a brainless stripper, but never in my life a one legged stripper! Quentin tarantino-Planet Terror--
even though it is broke down into English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland. Each country has their own laws, we here in Qatar have to abide by the laws in Qatar
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I don't understand what Sharia law has to do with this.
A woman cannot be forced to be married by the law (pressured by the family is another thing).
Rape is illegal in Sharia law.
Marrying someone and it turning out that it's someone else is also against the law.
This is pure BS.
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The UK has it's own judicial system and is still a predominantly Christian country.
sharia law in the UK. Certain interfering Councilors in some cities tried to get it brought into practice and screamed Racism,intolerance and all that type of crap when the Government said no way.
And for all you people on here who say the UK is Rascist by quoting a few examples, i say to you, look at yer own countries first. Granted, the BNP and Skinhead type political parties are gaining popularity, but this is to do with the fact that the Government and all those stupid do gooder groups will let anyone and everyone into the country, which is erradicating the British culture and identity.
So please lets not turn this into the Western way of life vs the Islam way of life argument that we always get on here.
Lets just keep it civil please !!
And before i forget, happy Valentines day to all you loved up types out there :(
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sorry, double post
young girl I know from the UK, went to Pakistan for a supposed holiday. While out there her daughter in the UK had a telephone call to say that her Mother has had an heart atack as should go to Pakistan immediately.
When she arrived there she found her Mother fit and well, there was nothing wrong with her, she was only told that to get her over there. What they had failed to tell her, was that she was getting married. She was in tears and did not want to get married but was told she would have to had it had all been arranged.
After a month over there, she went back to the UK. Back in the UK she would then have to apply for her husband to come over. She tried to put this off as long as possible but her father kept asking her when was she going to submit the papers, she did this after around 6 months.
When she was asked to write anonymously that she did not want him over here, she said there was nothing she could do, as she loved her parents so much and did not want to upset them or bring shame to her family. Another factor she said, was that her father was a barrister and would, one way or another, find out it was her.
This situation is so sad as she is still unhappy.
Your not the first to say that to me actually..
I guess that would make it hard for a person who comes in and sees positives and negatives on both side.
I'm just as hard on the muslims.. ;) And I think they could learn a great deal from the western culture and system of laws. Arab culture is notorious for being stubborn and prideful. Sorry guys! And I think they blow their own horn when it comes to hospitality. But then I am biased towards american culture somewhat.. so there ya go.
sad that all these happen around the world..I guess all this happens more in developing and underdeveloped countries..
Some simple research into the subject would cure all ignorance.
I am sure the shariah council have commented that they do not condone the actions of these parents and that it isn't islamic.
therefore why be so confused?
That was very interesting. I do have some experience of the UK and of muslims. I lved in London for almost 10 years and I worked with many British muslims, some of whom I am still friendly with. I never had any difficulty with them and they had none with me.
I have lived in the Middle East fot three years and most of my friends are muslim. The people at work are mainly muslim and the guy sitting next to me is a British muslim and a good friend.
Do not think I am anti-muslim. I am not. I do however, find it tiresome that there are some people on this site that would have us believe that everything about Islam is perfect and that everything about the west sucks. There are some so called experts who like to speak on behalf of all arabs and all muslims. I guess I was directing this at them.
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
By the same token, if you have a problem with Sharia law (assuming you actually think the article has anything to do with sharia law) then what are you still doing in Qatar? wouldn't you be a lot happier back where you came from? you wont have to be so unhappy about ppl reporting pregnant women out of wedlock anymore! "you wont have to fight the system where you live" ;)
It was a bad title. I dhould have said something along the lines of "should the abuse of Sharia law be tolerated in the UK"
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
Actually it is that the marriage by uk does not mean the marriage is islamic.
an islamic marriage needs 2 male witnesses to be valid. The womens guardian agrees the marriage on the womens consent.
But the shariah council is made up of muslims and has little weight on english law. However the council must respect English law at all times.
on a side note.. the shariah council is not that well respected amongst the muslim community either.
The point is when legals systems try to investigate and prosecute this... we are told that it is Sharia Law, by muslims, and that we (ie as a western non-muslim) are persecuting minorities.
So many folk here, who are muslim, say this isn't sharia law ... then we have many people (muslims) using the term sharia law as a smoke screen to hide behind and as a weapon to use against a secular government.
No why do you think we get all confused???
We don't know what to believe..............:(
I did not say in my previous post that it was "better" to live in the east the europe. Rather I said that a few bad apples (maybe even to many than should be) is not only limited to muslims. Alot of really raunchy shit happens in the uk by peoples own family members too.
I clearly made that point because the title somehow suggested that "shariah" law is to blame.
Are they using shariah law as a justification? Most muslims in the uk know that these are cultural and family related problems. If a few crazy muslims claim it is part of shariah does that mean they truly believe that? Charles Manson claimed he was doing the work of God too!
Are muslims who live in the uk against the west? Not at all! If you are not from the uk then you should hear first hand what a racist and unfriendly society it is here. That is coming from a white american who wears a head cover and has many english friends!
Now place a pakistani from the most corrupted, poorest and illiterate part of pakistan with a bunch of snobby unfriendly brits in the 1950's who view pakistanis as "the lowest of the working class" in a factory of rough uneducated english bafoons.
The result was an extremely insular pakistani community who was harrassed and humiliated here in the uk. Despite goverment fairness and support. Many of these characters who knew nothing of Islam turned to a sect called Brailwees and continued the cultural villagy beliefs of their community. Which served as a catalyst to keep money in the family. Many husbands left wives in mirpur pakistan and when they came to the uk were treated extremely inhumanely and forced to put up with cheating and abuse. They were not victims of "shariah" law! It was a cultural and survival techniques added to some lovely hindu traditions of no divorce and an extreme illiterate and helpless community to bring about such injustice.
My husbands family came from one of the more upper middle class Indian families. His mother, a gujrati muslim, born in 1938 was educated with a bachelors in english (no small feat for a women of her time). All of her sisters and brothers were very wealthy and married doctors, engineers and business owners. Her father was a civil servant in karachi pakistan after the india/pakistani split.
Accordingly one of her sisters came to live in the uk and held parties with the english and would drink alcohol and try to fit in. Her husband was a GP and they sent their daughter to private school. The daughter married an english man who cheated on her.. and is now married to a yemeni through her own choice.
Even in my husbands own upper middle class family divorce is a big issue because, as gujratees, they carry alot of hindu traditions. His father could not find good quality work as an engineer and ended up working in one of the factories. His mother held a job to support the family. His parents actually divorced in 1990 and his mother refuses to leave the house because of her shame.
As one of the only brownies in East london my husband tells me alot of stories when he never walked home.. HE RAN!
Now the stories of people above are usually from really really backward pakistani/muslim families. Certainly in my husbands case (while many cultural baggage existed with his parents) he was easily able to marry a girl of his choice. Despite his fathers desire for him to marry one of his cousins. In fact I have many friends who are english in every way accept for religion. Mainly educated in a profession and can be both proud of their muslim heritage as well as the english traditions that are halal.
As for a wealthy mirpuri/jaat family who has strong connections in pakistan then this is usually not the case. Their is alot of corruption in pakistan!
Do muslims hate the english! Quite the opposite. Most of the pakistani muslim try to emulate the english because they believe that the culture of their parents is based on Islam (ignorance) and that the west has all the answers. These people usually take the rougher English as role models. Others know nothing else because of the insular communities and fear making the family upset or the repercussions of their uneducated parents.
The majority of muslims in this country who have lived here their whole life have very little understanding of english culture (despite trying to emulate them). Because of the insular communities within both pakistani and english cultures and racism between the two. I have noticed as an american that the majority of pakistanis do not understand the subtleties of the english culture and the class codes!
Another reason that the muslim communities are so distant to the english is because of their rules of socializing. For instance a person in england rarely exchanges first names or even introduces themself in a conversation if met randomly on the street. A talk about the weather and some witty remark is usually needed to open up a conversation which should never be too personal or intrusive. Lets call it the english social disability that meeting or leaving a very dry english conversation inevitably carries with it a degree of discomfort. As a result the best places to meet the english are in pubs (where a different set of rules exist), at parties (where alcohol is almost always involved), and through friends.
Muslims have a few issues here because they are not allowed to drink, enter pubs, or be at a party where others are drinking. Even if they did go.. it would have to be consistantly over a period of time to establish friendships and show the already racist stereotypes of muslims carry very little weight in reality. The majority of muslim cultures are extremely friendly and find it hard to understand the english as immigrants are not given a book on english culture. It has taken me 5 years to even have a simple understanding myself.
The only generation that are even becoming open minded is at universities where muslims and english have a comfortable and positive enviroment to get to know each other. In my own area many whites have never been friends with a muslim and often come to me and say they never realized that where they lived one cannot see any brownies.
As a muslim I find it odd to hang out with the english who are into music, sex outside of marriage (i.e. dating), clubbing, or pub runs. These really put a damper on getting to know the english and trying to respect them and because of the social disabilities(Kate Fox) inherant within english culture. And they also tend to find me odd when I dress so differently and I am sure do not know where to put me in terms of class. Since I am clearly not "working class" (hate that word), well spoken, good manners, kids go to a "white" private school yet incredibly simple and humble in terms of housing, car, clothes and personality. Extremely friendly and perhaps even brash as an american. And I am sure the most hated sin being that I love to blow my own horn! :)
So with all these social issues and many many more we have an islamic insular community that has many ignorant beliefs (these DO NOT INCLUDE honour killings or force marriage). The desire to have freedom(like in american religious freedom) (rather than tolerance) when practicing the Islamic principals that many carry. And perhaps an understanding and friendship with the english. The amount of ignorance about islam and the social reasons behind many crimes committed by a very small number, the media promoting islamphobia and racism is something to consider when trying to understand the muslims in britain.
And it is no wonder that many of the suicide bombers were from the uk because of the issues of racism. My own daughter who speaks nothing other than english is called "black" at school. Kids do not play with her because they don't like "pakis" and although I live in a quaint english upper middle class village.. I often have comments thrown out car windows by cowards that I should "go back to your own country" and other abuses. We are not invited to some of the parties because of racism and very few of my neighbors have bothered to be friendly.
Having said that I do think times are changing. And that their are groups of people who are growing stronger in racism. I hear the hammersmith skinheads are gaining in popularity in england. And also a growing amount of people who are more understanding and open minded towards other cultures then even 10 years ago. While I suffer from an extreme amount of abuse .. I also have alot of people who apologize for their country man.. and say they "are happy you have moved into the village."
As for the media.. well I think one should experience life rather than taking someones word for it. Do I as a muslim or any of the many sects extreme, open minded or jihaadi muslims in the uk desire shariah law? I am sure it would be welcome to have some inheritance laws..
As a muslim I can vouch for myself in that I would personally not like to push my own beliefs on my host country. We need to start with our own countries first and root out the evil. And it is incumbant upon all the muslims to make hijrah (move to where they can practice their faith) if they can.
Most of even the staunchest jihaadi muslims that I have met are in agreement with that opinion. Sure we have a few who are completely brain dead... but that is a very small minority. Have a few people in utah who call themselves mormon but practice polygamy too. So go figure!
And I as a muslim would feel the uk goverment is completely within reason to kick out those who do not wish to abide by their laws. After all if you don't like the system then get the hell out! What I don't appreciate is the amount of racism and abuse by the goverment and media which has caused a new ignorant generation of islamphobia to exist. And as a consequence of more racism .. there will be more muslims who are equally as offended and take unwise actions to make themselves heard. (example of a teenager who is hurt by parents and does things to get their attention.. sometimes very harmful things)
According to statistics (which I am not very fond of) 73% of the english do not support immigration to england. I am sure if I had known this as a muslim american.. then I may have never come. Since I am here.. I am not just trying to make the best of the situation as I can. And have met some fantastic people on the way. Both muslim and english.
--
Try and use your brain and you will see that ......"The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain."
or is it that the case that a Sharia council has nothing to do with Sharia law?
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
Try and use your brain and you will see that ......"The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain."
or is it that the case that a Sharia council has nothing to do with Sharia law?
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
how's your title related in any way to the above article? I do get your point but the title was still unecessary.
richard123... like almost everyone else, I too have to say that shariah has nothing to do with the news article that you have presented.
The consent of the bride is a requisite for any marriage in Islam... period!
We had Richard123 for the last 3 years. No wonder the whole Qatar hates QL!
If anyone believes that prostitution is more rife in the West than other countries try this book:
Louise Brown - The Dancing Girls of Lahore
Corn - sad to say but this is quite a common problem in the UK...
and it doesn't get sorted out because people start screaming that we are being anti-islamic
so if we do something we are being against muslims and not sorting out our own problems
if we do nothing we condone suffering for lots of poor girls
We can't win :(
Me: you want sharia law that badly??????? then go and live where it is available...you will be alot happier and you won't have to fight the system where you live.
I dont think everyone hates Americans, more so the American foreign policies and where they stand. I could say the same about muslim leaders that im not particularily fond of or our prime ministers in Australia. Pity because they have their own selfish agendas and we are left to fight it out with each other which is their intention....politicians are evil....all of them....lol...
u missed miss condy!
---Life is Fragile, Handle With Prayer---
We have had George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld for the last few years. No wonder the whole world hates us!
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
Richard i agree with that..there are a some ignorant people working in shariah councils and they dont help with the perception of Islam, this happens in western shariah councils and when these people dont follow the countries laws, i beleive they should be told to stand down and make room for people who are to abide by shariah law within the limits to the countries laws. We faced this situation in Australia with a mufti(represtning muslims in sydney) who was constantly represting muslims in a bad light with his comments. They werent represtive of what most law abiding muslims agree with and evetually the muslims made him stand down.
I'm a strong believer in that people have a right to live the way they want, within the laws. Its one thing to practice Islam in a western country(which muslims have a right to as with many other religions in the west)and its another to break te law in western countries.
For the people who arent happy with the wesern laws, then an Islamic country would suit them most..
Ofcourse it doesn't help with the perception of Islam, if anything it actually sets back the Muslim-British relationships and that's why it angers me. It only take a handful of ignorant idiots to ruin the image of an entire population.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
Thanks to whoever's watching my Double Posting but you deleted what I wrote!
Anyway, to me this is just domestic abuse with religion as the excuse. No different then a guy saying "but she just wouldn't listen" before hitting (or killing) his wife, daughter, girlfriend.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
I think you are right in what you say. As far as the newspaper is concerned, I believe that the London Times is a fairly decent newspaper and I think they check their facts.
I agree with you that these things are largely cultural rather than religious but if the newspaper is to be believed then......"The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain." This would suggest that the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain is run by a bunch of ignorant backward tribes people living in Britain.
This certainly would not help the perception of Islam in Britain and should be corrected. No?
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
As you say we don't know if this is true and as it is well known things are often exaggerated in newspaper articles to improve selling, often the articles are misleading however here again "there is no smoke without fire:.
We did already have a thread on 'honor killings' but I am still of the opinion that if you (anybody) live in the "West" and as we (anybody) are living here in Qatar we have to abide by the laws of that country and can't decide we will use the laws of back home.
As the saying goes "when in Rome do as the Romans do".
NP gypsy...
Sorry Nadt, missed the: within the countries laws. :)
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
that is what i said gypsy within the countries laws.....
Why involve the Western Societies in Eastern famuily disputes, why involve anyone from the West at all, as my Dad use to say "Don't do what I do but Do what I say". Lol Lol so much for that.
richard123
you know putting this kind of thread on QA means you are leaning far out of the window and instant death is prophisied. You will reap the wrath lol lol lol.
Well said AbuAmerican :)
That's what I was trying to say, that it's their culture rather than religion.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
The first four paragraphs should tell you that the story is baseless and has nothing to do with Islam and/or the sharia law.
This is an arranged marriage issue that's more common in asia, africa and I believe per capita, commonly practiced by non-asian muslims than asian muslims.
A fair point to make and probably comment on is comparing social moralities e.g crime rates, prostitution, HIV infection, suicide rates etc between countries/regions implementing sharia law and those that don't.
Try find such an article!
You can practice Shariah Law Nadt, but you can't carry out Shariah punishment, as most of the punishments are illegal by Western standards.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
First, I must doubt how true the story is, afterall the media only spices things up to get their audience fired up. The worse the story, the more it sells.
However, if these accounts of the story were completely accurate, then it's despicable! It's awful how a father would do such a thing to his own daughter then use Islamic Sharia as a shield to his horrible actions because he's too much of a coward to own up to them. I'm sure Islam doesn't allow such manipulation of a 15 year old into such a marriage, and then force her into prostitution.
Furthermore, honour killing is completely a "cultural" thing rather than "religious". I hate how culture and religion keep getting entangled. I also don't like the fact that most Muslims in Britain are from countries such as Pakistan or India because those countries don't represent all the Muslims, they mostly represent the conservative, uneducated bunch. I'm not being racist or anything, I'm just looking at the facts.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
Richard as far as i know living in a western country doesnt mean you sign up to the western way of living" what ever that means. Last time i checked place like the UK, Aus, Canada and USA were a multicultural community and there is diversity? The law doesnt state that you have to assimialte to western living. The above are isolated cases and should be treated as such. As far as i know you are allowed to practice shariah law within the countries law. Hence if they are abusing shariah law for their own sickness they sould be treated as criminals.
These poor girls should turn to their families to stop this abuse and violence. Shelters and "refuges" are a Western invention and don't work. :P
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
here we go again and this looks like a looong conversational topic damn. and am sure no one will agree with any one. all self made presumed ideas. Shacks
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orxy i dont beleive its worse in west, but if you dont beleive that these things or similar things happens in the west, then you are looking at the world in a black and white manner..people are people and some can be cruel and disgusting(like the above family), no matter where they are from...I beleive women have more rights in the west which is a good thing...
May be their own country don't want them or They don't want to live in their own country. Affraid of loosing all the luxury?
Nowhere did I say that I thought these actions were condoned by Islamic or Sharia law. Also the UK is not my country.
My point is that these cruel and ignorant people living in a secular country are using Sharia law as a justification for the way they act.
Thses people appear to be against everything that is western yet they choose to live in a western country. Why?
The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963
Yes you are so right Princess.
It is far worse in the West. That is why so many folk from Europe want to leave and go and live in good countries like Pakistan where women are safer and face less risks.
Oh yes it is truely Evil in many parts of Europe... as a woman I wish I had been born in a different area.
I agree PH..for starters in shariah law for marriage to be valid the women has to agree to the marriage otherwise it is null and void... Now how some muslims deal with marraige, arranged etc is another case....they are two separate topics. This seems to be the week of Islamic posts and all are maily from UK...
what does any version of shariah law have to do with this article?
Its about families (who probably come from the poorest and most uneducated areas of their home country) Who are cruel and evil! Alot of families in the west (non muslim) face exactly the same degree of cruelty and evil and alot worse.
From your title I am assuming you actually think these kind of things are "islamic" "shariah condoned" and therefore show ignorance about the whole social religious situationof the muslims who have lived in your country for some 50 years now.