Americans or Singaporeans, What would YOU have imported to Doha or stocked up on when moving here if doing it all over again?

Interesting takes on high school in Doha - and the US - from those who haven't been there, or at least recently. While the American School in Doha offers much and the kids seem generally pretty happy, it's perhaps telling - when they are asked, most say they would prefer to be "home" - where ever that might be. For about 40% of them, that's the U.S., for 20%, Canada, and the other 40% from over 60 different countries. While they differ on dress, religion, music, and just about everything else - the most agreement you could get from them is that most would rather be home - even the veteran overseas kids.

As an adult, looking back on homecoming, Friday night football, after school clubs - these events seem irrelevant when put in perspective. To many American students, and perhaps even more so to those denied participation - these experiences seem a right of passage. Television programs, movies and books have given them windows into this life, and many want it. Arguably, this might not figure as a major factor in a decision such as the financial well being of a family. But if financial well being is established stateside, then perhaps things like this deserve consideration.

Going to a US school does not automatically mean a teen will be "Selfish, spoiled, loud-mouthed, overly opinionated, narrow-minded" as a post says - hey, that can happen here too, right? Think how horribly bigoted that statement would seem like if another country were put in the place of US. Keep in mind that thousands of US college graduates still volunteer for the Peace Corps, that many US high schools are incredibly diverse not only ethnically but economically, which is NOT the case of most international schools. Just things to think about - everyone has to take their own measurements and decide what works best in their equations. Best of luck!

T'is true, Tootsie, and you make some good comments. As you said, it all depends on attitude to adjusting somewhere. The biggest problem Americans face in moving to another country, I think, is that the really socialized ones rapidly find that it's not 'all about them'. There's this thing with American society where people are socialized to look out for themselves at the expense of others. Selfish, spoiled, loud-mouthed, overly opinionated, narrow-minded--I have heard all these used to describe Americans.

High school in the US-- sports, homecoming, prom. In many schools, those who excel academically are often pushed to the side for those who can kick a football or make 3-pointers. Yet it's interesting that today's class president often fails to leave town and/or gets knocked up right after high school. At least that's the pattern in my corner of the world.

Anyway, you are quite right. I, too, didn't necessarily hear the reason of 'culturizing the family' in moving. It sounds as though the decision *might* be based solely on the salary. And my whole point was to ask the OP to look beyond the money. Which I think the OP understands already, having lived overseas before.

Thanks to Tootsie and Namabiru your input is much appreciated.

Now that's a very interesting reply .... and it's why I clarified where I grew up. I didn't have to move from the UK to be exposed to the outside world neither geographically or culturally. Looking around at Doha I personally am glad that I had London. The same could be said if it had been any other centre of diversity employing todays standards of human rights. Whilst Doha is diverse it is also very restrictive for young adults, in attitude and activity.

Your description of "high school" is part of the reason why I would rather my kids grew up in the UK than the States. Because when I said high school years I didn't mean any of that. I meant all the other opportunities I had as a 14-18 year old.

That said, although it's a battle you can teach Americans that the world is not how most of them view it, even living between the shining seas. And moving away from it wont necessarily have the immediate effect anyway ... it's all about attitude.

I have a couple of close friends from home who were brought up in Dubai and Bahrain from very young to 11 and 14. One of them is now back in Dubai and the other in Chiswick London. They both say they were quite happy as children in the ME (although the ME of 20 years ago was quite different). They have both done very well for themselves.

However, we were talking about advice for the OP .. and nothing he said lead me to believe any of the motivations for this move were about culturalising the family. I still think that Doha is a poor choice for doing that anyway. I know a handful of young American adults who have had Doha made their homes and none of them seem much too happy about it. A move here however could be a step out of the States and on to something else. Like I said though, that was not the stated intentions of the OP.

As far as 'is it worth it?' Well, one thing you have to look at is you're getting your high salary in the States. So you're already used to having to donate a bunch for the war. Here, you'll run into the same thing, with the exception (and this is on advice from a professional tax firm) that you don't have to file a state return. You might have to if you have property back in the States, or storage costs, or something else which ties you to the States. This is something you might check on with a knowledgable CPA. Don't go to H&R Block, those people know *nothing* about international tax laws. I had a woman there tell me if I left Japan to go to another foreign country (not the States), I couldn't use that time for my exemption. Um, wrong!

I suppose it depends on what you want to do in life, and where you want to be. International life, as you already know, has many, many rewards which cannot be measured by salary. It's not always the money, you know. You especially have to think of the opportunity for your son. In today's age, especially with the number of stereotypes regarding the Middle East, your son has a good chance to understand how things really are, and how things are not. Particularly at his age--he's still pretty impressionable.

As for the high school years and having to be in the States, it's all meaningless materialistic pratter, I've learned. I did all the required high school things--bought annuals, bought a ring, bought a Senior Key, went on trip, all that. But I don't even look at my annuals, nor do I wear the jewelry, and I've misplaced the photos from trip. There's more to life than Homecoming.

My boss has two children, 13 and 7. It was interesting to walk into his daughter's room (13) and see her 'summer activities' list. For most American kids that age, the highlight of the summer would be talking on the phone. Her list, though, (written with glitter pen, of course) had things like 'London', 'South Africa', 'Utah', 'visiting Grandma', etc.

You'd have to be careful with taking your son from school, bringing him here, then shuttling him back to the States for high school. In a few years' time, it'd be amazing to see his perspective on the world. Then to stick him back with socialized Americans, who would have no clue what he was on about or who he was, or start bullying him for being 'different'... eek. If Doha isn't going to be the best place for him, perhaps he'd be interested in going to International school close by (Dubai, maybe?). You never know.

Sometimes you have to jump off the cliff to see what will happen.

You have a fairly good idea about life in the GCC, having lived in Dubai for so long. I'd go with gut instinct. Sell your car, sell whatever possessions you don't need, rent the house out, and go! Life's too short.

It's not always about the money.

That's quite a long term plan ... if you know what ME lifestyles are like and are happy with living that life then by all means go for it. It is a very good package, staying that long it would be worth shipping everything you want. With that much lead time getting into the School should not be a problem.

My personal opinion - I wouldn't do it for an extra 30k a year - not when you're already 40k in surplus. I dont think the sacrifice in what I consider to be quality of life to be worth it. But that is an extremely subjective issue. This is not the place I would chose to bring my teenager up in. In your shoes, I'd at least plan to be back for high school years in the States. When I look at all the opportunities I had as a teenager in the UK (London) I would have greatly resented being here instead.

Do consider if your wife cannot find a job, cannot cope with or doesnt like the social and work culture here regarding women the move will not only prevent her from working but damage her future career prospects.

On the other hand you could all love it, she could find a job in a company she's happy with and you could get yourselves set up in a nice tidy expat situation with that income. Depends if that's the life you want?

I have not checked the American school yet, my son is 10 years old, he is in Junior High or 6th grade to be precise. I expect him to finish this school year in the states and move to Qatar this coming August.

My wife currently earns around $45,000/year and she is not the type that likes to stay without work, she has a degree in Computer Science and would like to resume her career.

I have worked in Dubai around 20 years ago and I think I know what to expect.

I am paying a mortgage on a house in the states around $2000/month including taxes, my father-in-law will live in it and pay utilities and upkeep only. House should be paid off in 5 years.

Currently we save around $40,000/year after other deductions (retirement....ect.), I am hoping to save more so I can retire earlier may be save $70,000/year and stay in Qatar till my son completes high school.

I want to bring my car with me and buy a small one for my wife, I will consider a driver for her. So I do not have to buy 2 new vehicles.

I hope this clarifies my earlier posts, do you think I am doing the right thing here.

Hmmm .. that's an extremely subjective question. The money in itself is good but .... you earn good money anyway.

Have you checked there are places available at the American School? Places are not easy to come by.

Your accomodation allowance will not get you a villa, there are also long waiting lists for the better maintained compounds with facilities. For the standard of comfort you will be used to and access to outdoors at all you will be paying 15-20k QR pcm for accomodation. Low end for unfurnished high otherwise. The really posh compounds are 25k+ but you'll wait a year + for availability. Will you be gaining a rental income in the states on top of your salaries here? or is rent money going down a black hole?

Cars - rental for one car is going to set you back nigh on $700 for something "compact". Have you seen the driving here? Has your wife seen the driving here? Will you want to get a driver?

Will your spouse want to work? Depending on what she does and what she is earning it can be next to impossible to find local hire jobs. If she is going to stop working, what proportion of your US income are you losing in this respect? For many wives who are used to careers of their own it can be a very difficult transition. There's not really a whole lot to do here but meet friends in coffee bars and take kids to afterschool activities.

Have you all been out to the ME before? Have either of you lived abroad at all? What are your lifestyles like and what do you do for entertainment? How old is the little one?

Weighed up we dont much like this place but certainly the best can be made of it in a lot of circumstances if the money is worth it and only you can know how much being here is going to net you. If you're comfortable where you are and the family has not done a look see I would seriously recommend you try and get one done.

What are your expectations of this place?

My honest opinion is the net gain has got to be pretty god dam high to warrant coming out here .. you're going to be taxed on over 100K of your package ... particularly if it's purely a financial move and not an experience related decision.

Tootside,

I have an offer at this time that I accepted, I can always back up at the last minute, the details are as follows:

$12500 monthly salary

$3500 accomodation

$300 transportation allowance

$250 utilities

American school for my kid = $13000/year

In addition to plane tickets for the family to the states once a year and an average of $8000 bonus.

Currently our income in the states including my spouse is $185000/year.

In your oppinion is this offer worth considering knowing that we are living comfortably around here.

My objective is to save some cash and knowing the tax advantage will make it feasable to accept.

As for the car it is very new and I will loose some money if I sell locally and yes it is black and fully equiped.

Your feedback will be greatly appreciated

Thanks.

Thanks Tootside, very comprehensive I really appreciate it.

We looked into shipping a 9 month old Tahoe ... all in it was going to cost about $6K to get it here. I think if we went back to the very beginning, now its turned out to be a three year stint here (and it hadn't been black) he would probably have brought it. That said, Im not sure it's worth shipping a 2wd or a Nissan, depends how good you are at negotiating if you intend to buy new, how lucky you are if you want to pick something up second hand and what you're gonna lose selling it in the States..

The cost of renting a 1.8 Nissan Tiida is now 2400 QR up from 1800QR 18 months ago ... yes, that's the level of some inflation here.

Let me clarify my comments on costs. This is a developing country. It's costs are utterly unjustifiable, because we have access to an APO address we order in a lot of things.

If people come here on stupid money that is one thing (it doesnt really matter then) but many people dont and on top of that they make the mistake of thinking it's going to be a low cost of living. And it just isn't. What they think they will save is eaten up in rent and trying to remain sane :x

With the exception of cigarettes, restuarants in general (especially unlicensed), salon services (if you use the local gals, not the hotels) and things like dry cleaning/tailoring everything here is roughly the same or more than I am used to in England ... Bar petrol obviously.

Stuff that is imported from Saudi is not too bad either, soft drinks, toiletries etc etc, a lot of them come across the land border and are very reasonable.

Most western women are not comfortable souk shopping so the malls are the option you are left with and imported goods (not consumables) do have mark ups from marginal to ridiculous. Quicksilver items here for example are 50% or more than in the States. If you are used to Babies R Us type prices ... in dollars Mothercare will be very expensive .. Home Centre Vs Bed Bath and Beyond .. Just don't expect cheap and you wont be dissapointed.

Compared to Tesco's or Sainsbury's I found supermarket shopping in the States quite shocking (800g of bread for 80-90p v $4-5 etc, etc) so maybe the price of produce here wont be that bad for you. It depends on your shopping habits, adaptability and monetary margins really.

The Mega Marts both at Land Mark and the Centre (Ramada lights) will have more western brand imports but as was said are quite a lot more expensive all round.

You basically have four options. Mega Marts, Giant stores, Carrefours and the Family Food centres. Every week or so I will have shopped at at least three of the four. You will get used to what each one stocks and where its best priced. We live on Al Saad and have all but Carrefour within a few minutes.

Your furniture options for something western styled are Homes R Us, The Home Centre and a few random shops that you can sometimes find something cool or quirky in. As long as you're not too fussed you should find something just fine.

How about bringing a Nissan Frontier Truck to Doha, I just bought it 6 months ago and now I am moving to Doha. Is fully equipped 4 door 2wd.

Thank you. I'm already gearing up to bring my PC and electronics from home then. I'll have a close look at the voltage for each item. Also, I did go to Google and sure looks like there are plenty of options. Regards.

I'm not sure the style of the king we have but it's bigger than my sister's was in the US. I measured ours (blanket on it so not exact) and it was like 80 inches by 78 inches. I say it's a pretty common mattress because everyone in our compound has one in their villa.

I know you asked Tootsie, but let me jump in.

First and foremost, *most* (not all, but most) electronics nowadays are dual voltage. You don't need an actual converter, just a simple plug you can put the US-sized plug into, which will go into the wall. If you've got a laptop, check on that large box on the cord unit for the voltage. That setup is what I'm using as we speak.

Another option is to ring Toshiba or whoever and purchase a different cord with the proper plug. Depends on what you want to do. You can spend $5 and get a plug, or roughly $100 and not have to carry the plug. Frankly the plug works fine, though.

Second off, you can find a region-free MULTI-VOLTAGE (sorry, we have no bold, you NEED to check for this feature) DVD player quite easily on the Internet. Just do a Google for "region-free multi-voltage DVD player". There are a number of sites out there. If it does not specifically say dual voltage (they specify usually) on the description, I wouldn't buy it.

Mine is a Toshiba SD-K670 player. It is lower end (with shorter life on electronics anymore, no sense in spending a lot of money on something that will crap out in 3 years' time), and I purchased it from etronics.com. The player was, I believe, $90. The shipping was another $17 or so via UPS to me in the US. You do not need a code to unlock the player; it is already set up as region-free. I tried DVDs from Regions 1, 2, and 3--all fine. My recorded DVDs also work fine.

http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=tossdk670

Now. If you get this player, and open it up, you may notice the plug is not the standard US two-pin or three-pin with grounder. The box will also say "region 2", as will the instructions. Don't worry. I happened to have a plug for North America, so I put the cord in and tried in the States. It worked fine. It also works fine here in Doha. For my purposes, it's a good player.

Hello Tootsie,

I was keen to learn more about your PC comments. I'm a heavy PC user and have the standard US plug. Wondering if I can use a converter or simply use a plug adapter (which I use just fine when I take my US computer to Singapore). As far as I know, Singapore plugs are just the same as those in Qatar -- someone pls verify if you would.

So, I should bring the latest and greatest computer equipment over then, eh? If I can simply use plug adapters, I'm set!

Appreciate it.

PWB78 mentions Eggcrates for the mattress. First of all, is it safe to assume that one can easily find a good KING SIZED bed in Doha? Are they traditional king or california kings (two very different sizes). Reason I ask is that I DO want to bring the foam mattress pads as it can be tough or darn near impossible to find those in Asia.

Thanks!

Thanks so much for your feedback. The topic certainly is a useful one. I'd like to know how or where I can pick up the dual-voltage region-free DVD player (pre region-free). I definitely need one of those ASAP. Leaving from US fairly soon, together with family.

Thanks for your assist!

Yeah, and that's the whole thing to rememeber. As everything has to be imported into Qatar, it's natural that there is going to be a little bit added onto the price. However, the things I have seen so far are NOT outrageously expensive. We're not talking a huge price inflation. If you shop around a bit, you figure out what to buy where. I found Mega Mart in Landmark to have a LOT more imported stuff, but I think their prices are a bit higher on basic goods than Carrefour. For all we know, there may be competition over at the Landmark too, when (if) the Carrefour is completed.

But "luxury" food items which people don't buy every day *anywhere* in the world are a bit more. Things like salmon, sour cream, shrimp, etc. But basics like milk, no problem. I pay 5 riyals for a liter at Carrefour. Note that milk only has a shelf life of 4 or 5 days, as do most dairy products, so you're better off buying small amounts anyway.

But getting back to goods' price and what I might have brought, I do highly recommend the dual-voltage region-free player :D The British 3-pin system is the plug size, so if you need to get something to correspond, do so. I brought one plug, and I need like 4 more. Ha! I'll manage, though.

You didn't mention where you were coming from (IS it Singapore?), and I can't recall the plug size in Singapore right off hand, but check on that. Actually, it's kind of strange here. It's like there are two sizes going here. Can someone who has been here longer elaborate, please?

If you wear contacts, you might be well off to try to sea ship solution to yourself, if you're getting a sea shipment through your company. Talk about luxury items--I just paid 39 riyals for a bottle of solution at Boots. But I needed it, so what do you do? I shipped some to myself from the States, where you can get generic for USD$3, but now I see I should have done more. So it goes. I'll probably go to Thailand soon anyway, and if I recall correctly, I can get it cheaper in Bangkok.

"most" goods are overpriced here, services are not though. Hand blenders are not expensive even if more than at home .. don't rely on jar baby food ;)

You know what I've enjoyed immensely? My dual-voltage region-free DVD player. I paid USD $100 for it, and carried it in my suitcase, and we've been friends ever since I got here. It's pre region-free so I don't have to enter any codes.

Bring some DVDs too. Go get something you've not watched and wait until you arrive, as a treat.

If your baby is old enough - ween them off "baby" food and onto the real stuff before coming. The baby food selection here sucks and it is way over-priced. Or you can make your own which I've started doing with some things.

Decor - Eggcrate for the mattress! Can't find one anywhere. :)

Also look into getting a Aramex Shop & Ship account. We just opened one and got our first package. SO easy and quick.

Im British btw but here with an American ...

Qatar's on 240 50 so dont buy a TV in the US unless it's dual voltage .. not commonly available afaik. We got a sony bravia not long ago for little more than US costs.

PC tech is way out of date and stupidly expensive so definitely bring all that. Books, if you're an avid reader. Hard to get decent literature. The availability of food stuffs is not bad tbh .. just be prepared to cry at the $ cost. I find it horrific mentally working in sterling!

Seems to be a ton of baby stuff here .. both in the local supermarkets and UK highstreet stores such as Mothercare. Unless your hugely brand reliant there wont be anything you need that you cant get.

If you're going to go with furnished then there's no point shipping anything really ... but be advised finding a 2 bed apartment with a decent standard of furnishings and fittings is difficlut a 3 bed is going to put you back 12-15k. That's as much as an UF villa. If you're intending to stay a while I would consider going that route tbh.

Securing your accomodation independently is not an easy task, are you coming out prior to wife and baby?

I will move to an apartment, most likely, mostly furnished. If not, I do get a small monthly furniture allowance. Trying to get a Villa, but we'll see. We'll be able to get a container if we want it, otherwise just using freight forwarders. We had not considered bringing much in the form of furniture. However, if I can get a great LCD TV in the US before coming, I just might. I just don't want to overpay for things in Qatar or miss out on items that you can find here, but not in Qatar. Thanks for your help. : )

What are you moving to? Villa or apt, furnished or not? Are you paying for shipping or do you have a relocation container?

I'm already seeing one thing-- eye drops and my eye ointment. I wasn't using so frequently while living in the States, but here it seems I'm bathing in the stuff. I am supposed to use a particular brand recommended by the eye doctor for severe dry eye, so I probably should have brought more. So it goes.