Expat / Qatari mix - culture clash, culture avoidance, culture acceptance, etc.?
Hello everyone,
I'm not sure if my title is appropriate, but this is what I would like your feedback on:
1) What is the % mix of expats to Qataris? 50-50, 20-80, what?
2) For the expats, who do you usually hang out with?
3) My wife and I are living in Egypt now, and we have met many nice Egyptians. But, having said that, there are things about the culture which we don't like, especially my wife. She is approximately 5ft tall, weights about 100lbs, and is close to 30 years old. To get to the point, she is incredibly bright and talented, and fed up with older (and lesser) Egyptian men treating her like a second class citizen. This applies to her office in particular, where every day is a struggle because the men have a beef with women, and to be blunt are sexist idiots (the Egyptians I work with are great, so I know that not all Egyptians are like this). I know that some Qataris will be like the ones in my wife's office, but my question is how easy is it in your social life to avoid these people in Qatar?
4) How are women generally treated when they interact with Qataris in day-to-day settings (grocery store, on the street, dentist office, buying a coffee, etc.)?
I agree that it is nice to meet and mingle with locals, but my wife and I have lived in enough countries now that this is not essential for us. We are considering Qatar for my career and so that we can start a family. If there is a large expat community and many activities geared towards them, then my wife and I will be happy in Qatar. If we meet some nice liberal Qataris in the process, then so much the better.
Basically, how easy will it be for my wife to avoid the kind of SOBs that she has to deal with at her office? What are your thoughts?
Thank you in advance for your help.
For the guys at my work who seem to be tracking everything I write on this site, and the benefit of anyone else considering going to Egypt, I will clarify that it is disgusting ONLY from the perspective of the level of harassment you get, which is what this post was about!!
Some the people I met there were incredibly hospitable. A taxi driver I hired for the day introduced me to his family who cooked for me, dressed me up as a "masreya" and gave me a real insight into everyday Egyptian life. I am very grateful to him and his family for their kindness.
But you can't deny that a white woman walking down the street on her way to the cairo museum will be made to feel very, very uncomfortable.
In any case, I am looking forward to going back there with an Egyptian in the future to see more of the real Egypt, and less of the toursit torment.
I quote:
"She might have problems only with arab expats (Egyptians, Lebanese)"
What a profoundly ignorant statement.
By that logic, if a person driving a Toyota swipes your car, you had better keep a safe distance from all Toyotas in future.
Might I also add, that anybody who feels any personal objection to Qatari people should do what is honourable and not accept, as a matter of priniciple, the generous opportunities offered by your hosts.
As the saying goes, you should not accept a meal and spit in the plate when finished.
You are just spot on with the description of her...
but that still does not justify it!
When the s*** hits the fan...
hey..
i m sorry u didnt have such a good time in Egypt....
U r probably just gorgous looking and thats why egyptians couldnt take ur eyes of u:)...
Egyptians tend to be very appriciative (possiblly too appreciative ) of bueaty in all its various forms:)
Cairo is a city where the amount of personal space culturally accepted is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY less than many parts of the world, Australia included...
Growing up in the over populated city like cairo means having very very limited space for oneself, and therefore Cairians ( and most egyptians) tend to feel very comfortable being phisically close ( much like the italians) with people who are complete strangers..
In australia however, or anywhere with lots of space and a more rigid sense of personal space, people grow up needing some phisical distance away from strangers, and any stranger intruding into this " intimate zone" is considered agressive and can be seen as sexualy assultive...
i assure u however, had the people of egypt known u feel so strongly about ur space, they would have given it 2 u...:)
If u have the time, pick up a book called " the definitive book of body language" by allan and barbara pease...
in one chapter it explains in great details the concept of personal space and how differnet it is from culture to culture..
i hope u find this insight helpfull in re evaluating your experience in egypt, and u r always wellcomed back to my bueatifull country for what is hopefully a more pleasent experience that the one u had..
have a gr8 day.
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Thank you Richard. Trying to understand other people's comments is a nice thing
bbksiu tries to explain the culture here. Islam is very much an integral part of that culture. The fact that not all Qataris follow it means that they are human.
Don't give bbk a hard time. We are lucky that we have Qataris that are prepared to take part in this forum and educate us on the culture here.
Not all Muslims are educated about their own religion. Thus, if they know something is haram, they will stop it.
Oh and lets be careful girls - according to bbksiu we could insult men by not covering our ears!
What you expect me to wear some ear muffs or mickey mouse ears?
Maybe if you are so worried about seeing something then YOU should cover your face so YOU don't get insulted.
As I know staring & gazing for sexual purposes is haram for both men & women in Islam.
Surah an-Nur 30-31
If your eyes not intentionally saw something that is haram, it is ok, but you have to stop looking immediately.
I think you will find the Qataris very pleasant and civil except when they are driving.
As others have said...depends on the make up of your office.
Staring seems an Indian sub-continent hobby in Qatar... and just not women - a blonde male friend of mine complains about the stares too! This can be minimised by driving and not walking. I have considered buying a water pistol!
And bbksiu can't you work it out for yourself that staring is unpleasant... do you need a Surah to tell you that??? Gosh you do say some silly off tangent things.
Egypt is disgusting. I was there for a week and hated it. Always getting stared at, harassed, propositioned, groped and once downright assaulted.
Qatar is very different. Even going shopping etc I never ever have a problem. There are very few instances where you will feel under threat, so long as you dont look like a hooker.
as your wife in my old job out here - i was working with mainly men, indians, palestinians and pakistanis they were so rude and nasty to me and i spent the whole time fighting and shouting - it ended up in a big row with my boss who was palestinian with him calling me names and i ended up leaving! Now i work for another firm out here with a very broad range of people and everyone here respects me and no fighting.
your wife will get stared at out here but not as much as egpyt - and you certainly dont get treated rudely as a woman in every day life - its only when you tell the man hes wrong when they start being rude!
love life!
most of the problems she gets in her office.
people yelling at her (although for the tiny thing that she is, she's quite a pistol when people treat her badly so those that yell usually only do it once).
she had a police office grab her back end.
basically she's tired of everything being a struggle or argument.
She'll get lots of stares on a daily basis no matter what she is wearing, but rather than that, as Gypsy pointed out, western expats are generally left alone.
My wife does not have a job lined up - we would be coming to Qatar for me to work, although she might look for something after we arrive. My wife works in the NGO sector, so if she does look for work it would be in that field.
We're more curious about everyday life, and not so much the office.
In a nutshell, we basically want to know if she's going to have problems on a daily basis.
I'm a woman working in a traditionally male field, my bosses are Qataris. I never had a problem with them, my work is respected, considered and praised and I don't feel I'm treated any different than my male colleagues, in fact at times being the female minority has had a few advantages. Having said that, I personally don't think I'd consider Qatar as the place to live long term and start a family.
A woman could insult men here when she does not cover her hair, neck, ears, arms, legs.
She could also insult men if she wore tight clothes.
Thus, some men take that as an excuse to treat a woman badly.
I haven't had any problems with the locals or the expats, other than a few stares. But it really depends on her nationality. As a western woman they pretty much leave me alone.
Does your wife know the make up of the office. If its a private company then its unlikely that there will be many Qataris working in her office as they tend to go for the cushier Government jobs.
The qataris you find in Private companies are taking the harder option so are invariably better educated more polite and eager to work as they understand work. The only exception will be the external affairs dept which are generally filled with not so motivated Qataris.
This will mean that the office will be filled with People from all other the middle east Egypt, Lebanon (loads) Syrians, Jordanians. There will also be quite a few Indians Filipinos they sadly end up in lower office jobs even though they are generally much brighter than their peers.
As for being out and about, if any ex-pat on here can say when was the last time they were served by or in anyway interact with Qataris in shops restaurants etc then tell me because I have been here almost a year and never have been.
The Qataris do not do "service industry"
The make up of the country
as said 200,000 locals 800,000 Expats 90% of them are building the place.
After giving you the facts, my opinion would be your wife will probably face the same problems at work perhaps to a lesser extent, Egypt probably doesn't draw people from all over the middle east as its poorer than here. The more cosmopolitan mix of people will make things easier.
At the end of the day its another Muslim country and historically and culturally women are seen as second class citizens, if anything here the local women are much less "free" than Egyptian women, life is more restrictive here by a wide margin.
The most appropriate phrase for you is
"Out of the frying pan into the fire"
Good Luck
in a nutt shell, Egypt is a better place for ur wife to be...
Qatar s a better place for u 2 be..
u do the math:)
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
She might have problems only with arab expats (Egyptians, Lebanese). I worked together with a very nice dutch girl, who was suffering a lot from her Egyptian boss. At the end he forced her to leave becuse he needed this job for his fat-assed cousin. funny thing that apart from this this egyptian guy who was her boss is a great person, very nice and funny. You shoudln't worry about Qataris (at leat those who work) - most of them are nice, polite and very educated. Western expats are just as anywhere else. Subcontinent expats she will have not many chances to meet, since 90% are construction workers, those who are educated (8-10%) are usually as normal as Westerners.
thanks for the reply.
so, regarding the Qataris and non-western foreigners, what can we expect regarding the concerns raised in my initial post?
will my wife have to deal with the same nonsense that she gets here? (i know she will, but on a daily basis, or not that often, or what?)
thanks again.
800 000 people in Qatar
Between 120 000 and 200 000 are Qatari.
The rest are made up of expats - a large number from the Indian Subcontinent, Phillipines and other Arab states. Plus Western expats.
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