Giving up The Mask...

Yr right LP thnks for yr support and I know from u the attitude of a good athiest but where is yr friend surprised ...............

Whats yr problem MN I know her father personally and his Attitude yr saying him slurs respect other people parents maybe u dont care about parents

I am supporting him and yr attacking him take care buddy

Mast: Please refrain from personal slurs.

Attacking a person who has made a comment that you don't agree with is utterly stupid.

By the way the past tense for the word teach, is "Taught”

My point is also same Kareena. So in this place somebody is gonna force somebody who is not going for the prayer?

I do know a few muslims who don't pray regularly. But never saw somebody forcing them to pray.

Did you ever see?

Seriously... Suprised and Kareena both make perfect sense... mixing state and religion is dangerous... religion or faith in more general terms is extremely important, but there is always a danger of someone thinking we know better.. someone self-rightously doing the wrong things under the pretence of religion.. and this is why it is important to keep it separate... again take any developed civilized country and you will see staggering examples.. for instance compare yemen to Geormany... things will become clear... it is an easy comparison.. sorry to all Yemeni's ... i just tried to choose a neutral examples... i guess it is impossible to pick completely neutral example.. i apologized if it comes accross offensive to anyone... but all i am saying is that mixing state and religion is dangerous... particularly because people are inheretently imperfect and religion somehow makes it right for them to pursue their personal interests at expense of others or common good.

Dont be confused learner bcos most of the athiest commenting above are all high level oversmart Qlers............ just remember them all in yr prayes Ameen

So why are religious people allowed to spout off about their beliefs to all and sundry, but atheists aren't?

if a person born into any religion one day decides he wants to be an athiest or convert into any other religion, it is his choice. No one is going to force him to pray or fast or anything. If they don't like what he or she has done, they can just disown that person but no one can force anyone into any relgion. It is against human rights.

I'm confused..There is a born Muslim, once he grow up, he becomes an atheist or whatever. Then what he is supposed to do? He stops praying, stops fasting in Ramadan. that's all right? In such a case, somebody is gonna force you to go for prayer or make you fast in Ramadan?

Belief is in your mind, nobody knows about it. You may pray not pray, its up to you. Keep it with you, who cares??

But yes, propagating your belief is another thing...

Thelonius and TS.. I still think separating religion from the state would help.. It really would.

Religion should always be separate from the State.. Like most of the civilzed world believes in Separation of Church and State.. Similary, all other not so civilized countries should follow suit.. Believe me, if they adopt this system, the world would be a much better place..

"Secularism and athesim were almost nonexistent in this region"

not true. as suleiman pointed, communist party and atheist existed in the middle east since 1940s. as well as many other seculiar parties (baas, kawmiyyoun, nasseriyoun,...)

There need not be any discussions about anybody's belief

even if there was to be any discussion it would serve no purpose...

each person has his own belief that he molds according to his personal experiences...

even the belief of people of the same religion are vastly different...

There is no such thing as absolute freedom.. now if people are pure... then they feel absolutely free in a secular society cause they would not want to commit crimes anyways.. so certain boundaries would not acutally infringe on their freedom and hence they would actually feel completely free.. cause the restictions would have no relevance since they would not commit those crimes anyways.. and that is as close to absolute freedom as one would get... or even want to get.

Wow Kareena !! WOW !! Thanks a lot... Looks like you know a lot about this subject... i really want to know your opinion.

now i am a bit confused... if a person is a strong believer... and believes that sins are punishable (be it karma or anything else)and that deeds we do are accounted for... yet he / she thinks that God does not have human qualities ... that God is pure kindness and fairness (neither anger or revenge.. or even punishment)... and that difficulties or punishments sent to us are not so much punishments but to teach us or make us better... and that there are many things that people don't understand and may be will never fully comprehend or meant to comprehend... and that the whole thing is a lot more complex...

Where would that person fit in ?

First of all the most of the middle eastern countries are Muslim countries as you know, so you have to respect the rules of the country where do you live, BUT what you said is wrong about the freedom.

Jordan for example is a Muslim, Middle eastren country, BUT the atheist, the Communist ,, they have Party headquarters

the idea is "Your freedom ends where the freedom of others begins"

Regards :)

Nope, I just think that you are reading way too much into the text.

The post doesn’t attempt to draw anything.

Just because tow words are mentioned in the same post, doesn’t mean secularism = atheism.

but they should keep it for them selves and not spoil others beliefs.

Those people who are really civilized will not attack others belief.

criticizing should be done in a civilized way.

It is very strange that today many things under the word freedome.

Guys please answer this question does freedome has limits?

Those who will say no, would they accept a man to rape their son or daughter who are 3 or 5 yrs old.

You, yes you who say freedome has no limits, then when some people come and take your home and car or wife or family, you must not object, man it is freedome.

There is a difference between an Athiest and an Agnostic. An Agnostic is someone who is not sure if there is a God or not and even if there is, that God does not have a form or name or any human quality like anger and revenge. The Agnostic version of God does not punish someone if he or she commits a sin. But then they are not fully convinced that there is one, They are sceptics.. On the other hand, Athiests are fully convinced that there is no God, no life after death, no torment of the grave, no hell or heaven.. They believe, once you die, you just cease to exist..

yes every human being has right to choose their life style,, but that style shouldn't harm anyone else,

yeah secularism n atheism r different concepts but i didn't see any equation mentioned about it in this post, better if we read twice

The Surprise...two unrelated concepts... the law and common sense shall prevail and govern everyone without any prejudice.

Marco.. if you read your initial post it attempts to draw paralells ... you keep referring to "this and that" and putting them in "one boat"as if they are subject to the same terms... the way you chose to communicate as an implicit connection... and like I said I believe these are unrelated concepts.... and if you believe so too then we don't really have much to argue about.

I want to toss one more point here... do you realize that some atheists ... however stupid I may sound... are actually strong believers... think about it.. some of them say I dont believe in God.. but then they call it something else.. like nature, like universal architect, like evolution (which actually does not contradict with the existence of God)... or some sort of energy... some paralel worlds... the point I am trying to make is that some of them are actually believers without even realizing that.. and finally... u may not believe in existence of gravity (if you lived before Newton time) but gravity did not care.. it is there anyways.. and whether you believe or not you are subject to it...

and that includes religion and sexual orientation but unfortunately some religious fundamentalists take it upon themselves to decide for others...

snakyy21: who's trying to equate secularism to atheism? Who said they were one and the same thing?

I dont get it.... Secularism and atheism are two totally different and unrelated concepts. While I have a strong faith I support Sercularism and tolerance. I support live and let live... why you try to equate secularism to atheism... Turkey is a good example of muslim country with secular society.

The day you clear your own heart ... all the witch-hunters you dread won't bother you anymore my brother.

Good for him. It is still heresay, so let's see what happens.

Ayn Rand wouldn't have survived here.

yes it is, but don't forget we live in a society and it is our first duty to respect and follow the values and norms set by it. If you want to experiment you can try elsewhere, where it is possible. :)