You have to SERVE Alcohol Egypt says Hyatt
CAIRO — Egyptian authorities are threatening to punish Cairo's luxury Grand Hyatt hotel of its five-star status if its Saudi owner sticks to his refusal to serve alcohol.
"July 2 has been set as the deadline," Fathi Nur, president of the Egyptian Hotel Association, told Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Tuesday, June 17.
"If he keeps it up, the hotel will be dropped down to two stars and its rates will reflect that."
Last month, Abdulaziz al-Brahim, a member of the Saudi royal family and owner of the coveted luxury property that sits on a tongue of land at the edge of the Nile, decided to get rid of all the alcohol in stock.
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He ordered the 2,500 bottles of alcoholic beverages at the hotel to be flushed down the toilets.
"300,000 dollars went into the sewers after this decision which totally violates Egypt's hotel rules," said Nur, who met the Saudi sheikh last week.
Islam prohibits any beverage that get people intoxicated, both in small and large quantities, whether it is alcohol, drugs, or something else.
But for authorities in Egypt, where drinking alcohol is not banned by law, religion must stop at the doorstep of touristic establishments.
Hotel rules dictate that any hotel above two stars must serve alcohol.
Egypt's tourism industry, which handled 11.1 million tourists last year, employs 12 percent of the active population and accounts for 11.6 percent of the country's Gross National Product.
The lucrative industry brings in 20 percent of foreign currency receipts.
"If he doesn't want to serve alcohol, it's his choice. If that doesn't comply with our regulations, he has to bear the consequences," said Tourism Minister Zoheir Garranah.
full article at http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=12129254017...
is commenting, this low class dancers do they know what is Islam
Saudis probably finance the films for the returns..Its business..
an interesting article at newsweek By Rod Nordland has other perspective of the story
http://www.newsweek.com/id/139434
on again/off again veiled actress Abir sabri says, referring to the strict form of Sunni Islam prevalent in Saudi Arabia. "Before, they invested in terrorism—and now they put their money in culture and the arts.
At the Grand Hyatt Cairo, a mile upstream along the Nile, the five-star hotel's Saudi owner banned alcohol as of May 1 and ostentatiously ordered its $1.4 million inventory of booze flushed down the drains. "A hotel in Egypt without alcohol is like a beach without a sea," says Aly Mourad, chairman of Studio Masr, the country's oldest film outfit. He says Saudis—who don't even have movie theaters in their own country—now finance 95 percent of the films made in Egypt.
allah allah ya baba ya salm alik ya Tourism in Egypt
You know what I mean ...
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
Well, then for whatever reason it's not served. I'm actually assuming it's because a large portion of tourists in Egypt are Arab. Obviously they don't want their pork but they want their booze :P
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"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
Pork wasn't served anywhere when I was in Egypt, even the 5 stars, so I'm assuming it's banned, therefore not a requirement.
dmightysolomon, in Qatar and Dubai it is not required to serve alcohol to be a 5 star, so there are several establishments that don't by the request of their owner. For example: Grand Regency, Millenium and Movenpick Towers and Suites. However, for the umpteenth million time, IN EGYPT it is required, as says the article.
Now, please, what part are you not understanding?
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Below text from Hyatt webpage includes their service agreement proposition .. as you see below "bars" is part of their proposition and apparently they do not have presence in KSA
"Grand Hyatt - For Leisure and Business Travel
Grand Hyatt Hotels serve large business destinations that attract leisure and corporate travelers, as well as large-scale meetings and conventions. The business hotels, reflecting grand scale and refinement, include state-of-the-art technology, sophisticated business and leisure facilities, banquet and conference facilities of world-class standard, and specialized programs that cater to discriminating business travel and vacation guests.
Grand Hyatt business hotels offer a variety of restaurants, cafes and bars. "
I totally agree with what you are trying to prove .. this is hospitality business .. these are the norms and comes with the industry .. if you do not like it you should not enter into this business ...
I would like to challenge dmighty if he can find me a 5 star international hotel management chain that does not serve alcohol ... other than in the KSA
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
I'll stop here now, I'm gonna check this one, it's pretty weird.
One more question, is PORK not part of the rating? You know, pork is a good partner for liquor? Just asking?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Ratings are based on many things, service, quality, etc. In Egypt, however, in order to receive a 5 star rating you must serve alcohol. Thats the law. Therefore the Hyatt will have to sell alcohol.
Also just noticed in the article that the rates would drop to 2 star rates. Considering the Sheraton in Egypt (a 4 star) was $89 a night I don't think you'll see the Hyatt drop to $50 or $40 a night.
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if you don;t sell liquor, your rating is low. Is that it?
If they don't allow prostitutes, what will be the rating? Can't people go to hotel just to do business (straight)or socialize? What is your idea of business, sip a wine, go drunk, kiss all the ladies in the house, what, tell me, where do they base their ratings?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I work with lots of Hotels dmightysolomon, I also know a thing or two about branding, and a 5 star brand hotel would never allow a 2 star rating on an establishment that carries it's name. That would be like the Ritz Carlton taking a 2 star rating. Not going to happen.
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the way you argue seems to give me an impression that you know the Hyatt group so well? Are you in hotel business? Have you had an experience or known an establishment that did not sell liquors and went bankrupt?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
The Hyatt franchise would never allow that to happen. They'll pull out of the deal and he'll be left with a nameless, managementless hotel.
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Apparently it is only against the law for a hotel above 2 stars....
"If he doesn't want to serve alcohol, it's his choice. If that doesn't comply with our regulations, he has to bear the consequences," said Tourism Minister Zoheir Garranah.
I hope he is brave enough to go and rate his hotel 1.99999 stars and tells them to screw himself ONLY OF OFF PRINCIPLE.....
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
if Hyatt won't sell alcoholic beverages, are they breaking the land laws? and if they do break, will they be arrested?
In boils down to this, those who advocates the selling of alcoholic beverages in Hyatt is for pure self pleasures only. Why, is Hyatt the only hotel in Egypt? What will be the negative effect of not selling (to the Egyptian?)
Isn't it the probable consequence (not even sure) is for business to go down in profitability? Those who will go to Hyatt will learn to adopt not to drink at all, in the same manner as we adopted in not eating pork because it was banned here in the middle east.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
few nights , but i think thats the Beer....
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"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
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you have towalk on one leg if you were 35, I guess I will not be visiting Bahrain soon ...
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
Thats it, end of story. He should have done his homework before buying the hotel.
Wether we like it or not doesnt really matter.
Plus i dont aledge Saudis come to Bahrain to drink, i know they do, as i live here and see them every weekend.
Its funny, Muslims on here always go on about how drinking is Haram and the like, but whenever you question them about it, they just brush the question aside....Thats hypocritical !!
At the end of the day, if the law states that he must sell Alcohol in his hotel, then thats what he has to do. If it offends his principles, then he should sell up and leave.
if the law in Bahrain says everyone aged 35 has to walk on 1 leg, then thats what yer have to do, wether ya like it or not.
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Did you ever see the friends where Joey was calling it a "moo" point. As in, it's a cows point, it's moo.
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The saying is 'moot' point not 'mute' my friend.
As I said you have to follow the law of the land and in Egypt the case is he must sell....
I am not starting a theological debate but I am saying you have to do business within the legal framework of the country you are operating in.
He is NOT above the law of the land.
Mr Paul...
Your logic is highly flawed in this thread buddy.
You go on about 'rights' and what not... but what about the right of the owner to sell or not sell what ever he wants in his establishment?
Just because something is allowed to be sold in a country doesn't mean that the owner HAS to sell it...
Your point about Saudis lining up at the Bahrain border to do as you alledge is a mute point. It has no bearing on this discussion. If you can bring forth proof that the owner of these hotels is along with that crown maybe you have a point but it would only make him a hyprocryte. And STILL would not mean he doesn't have the right to sell whatever he chooses in his establishment.
In fact it is your mentality that is pushing things down the the throats of others...
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
what happens if you leave it alone...? since its sovereign nation.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Because
a) we have a close connection to it historically.
b) it was/is strategically important for the whole region..its a key nation
Zim's problems has put a lot of pressure on all their neighbours and before Zim used to aleviate it's neighbours' problems.
Oh yes they drink lots of beer in Zim.... for sure...
Its not to you get to the coast in Mozambique that you see mosques...
obviously from the days of the old Arab traders
Archeologists have found bits and bobs from ancient Persia, China and India... at the Great Zimbo Ruins... believe to be have traded by the Arabs for Ivory etc...
Wonderful place! Shame about Uncle Bob... really
Cry Beloved Country... its heartbreaking.
I bet you the Zimbabwe Grand Hyatt allows alcohol.
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lol i wonder why Britain is so concerned about Zimbabwe? compared to other African nations.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Uncle Bob - just doesn't understand the words, 'graceful exit' does he???
He has been chopping and changing things around in Zimbo for the upcoming run offs...
Really the opposition have been nailed into a coffin with cement poured over...
Shame shame shame
Oryx Maybe we can chat about this at the Zimbabwe category newly created in QL.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
LOL - oh now thats a great example of an individual changing the law...
I was thinking during James II when Parliament put a lid on an absolute monarch and supremecy of the church.
But very funny.
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
I admire those who come with topics that stay long in debate .. we should have a top 10 list every week.
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
I guess the topic was not about Movies, british etc.
you may start new thread for this...
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Ya the movie was horrible I agree, though Natalie Portman was decent. The book on the other hand is really really good. I haven't seen the Tudors yet, but I'm hoping to buy the first season when it comes out on DVD.
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I did, from a while. It’s heavily factious & I hated scarlet Johansson fake British accent. The story is better covered in a series called “the Tudors”.
Did you just watch the Other Boleyn Girl genesis. :P ;)
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are not on God's law as challenged ... bloging and internet were not mentioned and lots of scholars say it is Haram ...
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
"British law (much to my pride) is often a reslut of the actions of individuals making a big difference"
Totally agree..King Henry changed the whole country sect to annul his marriage & get into Anne Boleyn pants ;)
By intimating that Blondes are thick. After all, yer know how some of these people are on here :P
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it's nothing compare to what he gains because of his religious belief.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
I can understand you being distracted...
but British law (much to my pride) is often a reslut of the actions of individuals making a big difference...
Look at the tolpuddle martyrs because of them trade unionism was founded.
Still love yer!
Got stuff on my mind, with my divorce and all that....Sorry.
I concede defeat !
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But individuals do change the law thru
a) pressure groups (Megan's law)
b) test cases..
i do love you to pieces but you are being as dense as a florida swamp!
and yer know im not blonde :(
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Well then he looses his business. :)
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Of course you can change A...
laws are frequently changed and ammended espcially after legal test cases....
Look at the new laws they had to bring in for 'internet grooming' in the UK
hasnt it.
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He knew about the laws when he bought the hotel, so whining about it now is too late.
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Law is when you break, you are fined or arrested. Nobody will arrest you if you don't sell liquors. Maybe, just maybe, you loose your business.
And Gypsy, sorry for the additional "fat". It's not intentional.
Ride on Mr. Paul, I hope you are happy mentioning that error (the "fat" thing). Are you always perfect in quoting someone?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
You should abide by the laws of the country you are in or be prepared to pay the penalty.....
If you dont' like the law, either:
a) look for ways to change it
b) go somewhere else
Why does this happen everytime I mention my bum?
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I think it must be because of watching the Italian football team yesterday ;)
to think that Religious law is above a Nations law.
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He should abide the laws of God above any human laws...
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Woow... bums bums bums everywere ....LoL
No Gypo... I wouldn't say you had a fat bum.... but can'
t vouch for the colour ;)
It is this man's business but he is not above the law of the land...
He chose to have his business in Egypt so he must abide by their laws.
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
Pasty white bum! Dmightysoloman, at least quote me right, I would never call my bum fat.
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she didnt say "White fat bum"
get it right if yer gonna quote people.
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I have already made a mental note to contact all hotels in Bahrain and request them to stop selling alcohol.
I will also try and personaly meet with the "ladies" to discuss their issues.
only few will go to paradise, othere will BE FUEL TO HELL
May God have mercy on you. PM me when you remember this words from me.
Why, Mr. Paul, do you think they are that dead serious to keep the Hotel? What percentage of their whole business is that simple Hyatt?
Let us all follow the news if what will happen next one year or two or three. Will it be a lost or gain?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
that Bahrain is full of them at weekends, drinking, dancing and using the "ladies" ??
Again, its that hypocrite senario.
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There's no law (especially in Saudi) that planes have to carry alcohol. And who else but Saudi's flies Saudi air anyway?
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when Saudi Airlines took of the skies without alcohol
The Four Seasons is nicer anyway.
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due to lost earnings.
But now at least i know not to stay at the Hyatt if i ever visit Egypt.
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This question came to my mind, what is the owner seeking out of this .. why not Lebanon, Tunisia, Morocco or any other Arab Country ..
Again, is he seeking to make a statement ... is it publicity ..
Egyptian working the hospitality industry need to live .. Why doesn't he take his business away from Egypt and let people work and live in peace ..
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
No Eco-Savvy, they are still 5 stars, it's hotels in EGYPT that are reduced to 2 stars if they don't serve alcohol.
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I like my direction just fine thanks. God can kiss my pasty white bum.
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Then Four seasons, Marriott in Riyadh, Le meridien in Khobar, Hilton have reduced their value to 2 star in Saudi
UNDER, God direction is UP. I am advicing you to pick UP and not just to choose. You may end up going down
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
If he wanted to open a dry hotel, he should have opened it in Saudi.
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You crack me up sometimes.. "He's Saudi, he should have opened the hotel in Saudi."..
Does that mean Canadians should only open hotles in Canada and Indians in india ?
Where is this world heading? In the right direction. :)
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divorce, same sex marriage, homosexuality and all others against God laws, where is this world heading? You wanted to go against God laws, go on.
God offered man Right and Wrong but did not stop there. He said "choose Right so you will live". It's not a choice
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
remember the thread regarding IH. If we talk about proper dress code in entering a Hotel, what more if the conviction of the Owner is to ban alcohol, it will not only be a policy but a moral duty.
Let those who goes to hotel jUST to drink go somewhere else
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Al-Ibrahim is not an Al soud. He's not really a royal.
Either way, they would know that they have to sell alcohol. Sounds like he's just making a fuss to show the rest of the royals that he had no choice but to sell alcohol.
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Hyatt serves all types of people... people who likes alcohol and those who don't because of religion.
they have to respect other people who drink... i'm allowed in my religion to drink... but I don't..
I'm neither allergic nor a drinking freak
what counts is... it is a matter of choice.
they should implement the religion on their people... and tell them not to drink... instead of doing things that are very imposing to other business people's rights... like this hotel.
i'm glad Qatar is respecting the hotel business... i read in the newspaper that the muslim religious leaders are discussing the ban of alcohol for the youth... i am sure.. they are on the right track... they focus on those people who follow the rules of the religion.
Unfortunately you are wrong here, in other parts of the world the earthly law prevails that of God however based on right or wrong.
Grand Hyatt have a reputation at stake and I am sure they will not allow this. The egyptians are stating thier laws first
Saudi royals as a com' on to them to do business in Egypt?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
He’ll loose all customers. Most of the hotel’s inhabitants are gulf Arabs who are there for the night life.
business in their country?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
(sari-sari store) are not permitted to sell alcoholic drinks also and nobody is complaining of loosing income. However small your income is, but Bless by God, what can you compare on the sins brought about by alcoholic drinks?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
to like it or not is a personal issue. but why bother to open a hotel then.
http://www.qatarliving.com/group/ql-kairali
YOU DONT KNOW ME, DONT EVEN TRY !!!
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dmightysolomon, if he didn't want to sell alcohol, he shouldn't have bought a Hyatt and he shouldn't have opened it in Egypt. He's Saudi, he should have opened the hotel in Saudi.
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and should abide by His laws
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Well there's no way in hell the Grand Hyatt would allow itself to be dropped to a 2 star.
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by anybody to sell something against my will. If I don't want to sell alcohol, then I will not. I should take the consequence of it. If I loose customer, so be it. It's the same thing as not selling pork in a muslim country, it,s their right. I can not get your logic, Mr. Paul.....
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
It would not be called Hyatt any more after that and would have to be manged under a different name .. evantually hotel will suffer financially, will have to reduce its rates, skilled employees in the hospitality industry will seek employment else where .. we can all see where it is all going to ..
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
Hyatt has told him to change his decision.. Egyptian authorities have done the same ..
At the end of the day , Its his hotel.. If he wants to suffer financial losses due to his decision , then that's his perogative .. Isn't it ?
I’m sure the hard rock café (on the lower floor of the hotel) will pull out 2
Why would such a person do a business that doesnt suite his policies and religion.
Whatevr said and done.. a DRY five star hotel in one of the great tourist destinaions of the world is sounding funny.
Thos who dont want dont...thoise who wants let them.
irrespective of what Religion is the majority or followed. Thats why there are laws, to stop people doing as they please.
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What a change of heart!
When did “Al-Ibrahim” quitted gambling, drinking, & partying with Moroccan girls?
Will he turn the MBC network into an Islamic channels to?
He can sell it to “alwaleed”, he won’t mind selling alcohol
I think he has every right to choose what is served on his business, it will be him who will be accountable infront of Allah, so i guess he made he right decision... lowering the hotel to 2 star should be ok with him atleast he can get Muslims who are not comfortable where Alcohol is drunk.
but what is so surprising is that Egypt is telling this, a country of Muslim majority...
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Not that simple dmightysoloman, according to Egyptian LAW the hotel has to serve alcohol.
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Supermarket chain in the UK, they could have forced it to stop selling Alcohol ? I think not ! alcohol is allowed to be sold in the UK.
It is yer choice wether yer buy it or not, thats the beauty of freedom, the choice to eat/drink what yer like, without fear or recompense.
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if it is owned by the Saudi monarchy, it is their moral right not to serve alcohol drinks in their establishment. Of course the consequence is that they may loose customer, but who cares, they own it, they run it.....their way
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I'm surprised the Hyatt franchise would even allow it.
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Again, Religion trying to be forced down others throats.
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Tourism in Egypt accounts for a big piece of revenue and 11% or moreof the working population work in this field .. The business has its rules .. if the owner of Hayatt wants to make a statement .. its up to him .. but if he wants to make money out of the tourism business he needs to follow the rukes of the game .. chances that he will loose profits which I guess are why people do business ...
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
door.
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